S03.E11 Fractured

[Guest]

Quote

Shaun opens up with Aaron about his feelings towards Lea.

 

[Annber03]

Ahhhh, interesting development at the end there :). I'm glad they were able to make up and sort things out. Shaun talking about wanting to impress Carly was touching, and of course he would take the time to make up pro/con lists :p. 

I do think it would help, though, if Shaun and Carly had a talk about why he felt comfortable with Lea hugging him when he was still struggling for that kind of intimacy with her. That might help ease some of her concerns and worries, because it clearly wasn't a romantic thing with Lea. It was just a simple source of comfort. I think Carly knows that, mind, but still, I can sympathize with her confusion some, so it'd be a good thing to discuss. 

I also totally understand Carly wanting to hear from Shaun when he was away, if for no other reason than to know he was all right. That said, considering what he was going through, radio silence wouldn't exactly be that unusual in that kind of situation. I'd probably hide out and not feel like talking to a lot of people, either. Again, though, I think Carly understands that. I think the general frustration they've been dealing with in their relationship thus far just kinda boiled over. 

But I like that they're still willing to work through all these issues, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with this next step in their relationship. Wonder what Lea will do if Shaun's not living with her anymore.

Also, speaking of Shaun, that whole scene with him and Glassman was...whoa. Very emotional and very moving. I like that we're getting a few scenes like this between these two again, it's been a while. 

Good cases tonight, though man, even professionally Claire can't seem to have a good outcome to something! I loved how she interacted with that patient, though, and how she used her own experience to try and reach out to him. And it was nice to see her with her therapist, too, and see her admitting to Melendez that she was seeing one. His words to her at the end were sweet. Maybe someday her attempts to help that guy will prove beneficial to him, even if we don't get to see that happen. 

And the woman with the leg...y'know, it's moments like this that make me wonder why I started watching a medical drama, because I kept wincing and my own leg ached just watching all of this :p. I understand her reasons for not wanting narcotics, but still... Glad she made it through, though. And I loved her husband and daughter :). That's a solid family, right there. 

Yeah. Pretty good episode tonight, nice way to return from the winter break. 

[thuganomics85]

The Good Doctor is back from the winter break and... yep, Shaun is still struggling with relationships and Claire can never win.  Oh, show!

I'm glad Shaun finally did bring himself to tell Carly the truth, even if took him a while, naturally.  I do think he really doesn't see Lea in any kind of romantic life anymore, and it is their long for him friendship that has made him more comfortable with her, and was able to let her hug him easier than when he is with Carly.  Plus, I do think he has a point that a lot of his issues is because he really wants to impress Carly and can't allow himself to be comfortable with her like he is with Lea.  That said, I do see why Carly was hurt by all of it and needed space.  Not sure about the resolution being that she wants him and Lea to no longer be roommates, but I guess I can see why she would want that right now.  Again, I have no clue if either Carly or Lea will end up being who Shaun wants to be with long-term, but I do hope this lets him grow as a person, and be ready for it if/when the day comes.

Shaun's freakout in Glassman's was brutal, but great.  Freddie Highmore and Richard Schiff more than delivered as always.

Andrew's genuine smile when Shaun asked him for romantic advice might have been the most I ever liked him.

Oh, Claire!  I get why she wanted to see the best and her patient, and to the actor's credit, he did come off likable and sincere (plus, Park did go a bit too far when he reverted back to "cop" mode.)  But I should have known it would all blow up in her face: complete with it being right after she told her therapist she finally felt like she got a win.  Poor Claire!  At least Melendez continues to be a good mentor with her.

Look like Park got a haircut in between this episode and the last one.  I like to imagine Will Yun Lee all "I'm tried of keeping up with this!  Time for a trim!" about it, while his female co-stars just roll their eyes.

I guess Lim was either taking a vacation or dealing with Chief of Surgery stuff!

Glad that the show is back!

[Annber03]

23 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Andrew's genuine smile when Shaun asked him for romantic advice might have been the most I ever liked him.

That was a really good moment, too, yeah. Andrews' description of his relationship with his wife was very sweet. And I like how Shaun's so comfortable opening up to the others and turning to them for advice in general. I like how supportive this entire group is of and towards each other. 

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

And the woman with the leg...y'know, it's moments like this that make me wonder why I started watching a medical drama, because I kept wincing and my own leg ached just watching all of this :p. I understand her reasons for not wanting narcotics, but still...

I actually don't understand it.  Narcotics and anesthetic aren't the same thing.  With anesthetic, you fall into a dreamless sleep and then, seemingly seconds later, wake up having no idea what went on.  I had minor surgery where they put me out, and it's not at all like being high. 

[sheetmoss]

44 minutes ago, izabella said:

I actually don't understand it.  Narcotics and anesthetic aren't the same thing.  With anesthetic, you fall into a dreamless sleep and then, seemingly seconds later, wake up having no idea what went on.  I had minor surgery where they put me out, and it's not at all like being high. 

The anesthesiologist wound up using the normal drug cocktail to sedate Max for the surgery — a mix of drugs that included opioids. And the surgery went well.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/04/20/519481712/how-do-former-opioid-addicts-safely-get-pain-relief-after-surgery

[ShortyMac]

I didn't appreciate Reznick saying to Shaun, about Carly, "the fact that she's willing to deal with all of your 'stuff' means that you should be thanking whatever god you pray to that you ever met her."

Another ableist example of how disabled/non-neurotypical people are only to be 'tolerated,' and have no redeeming qualities, and are not people, like anyone else, outside of their conditions. 

How would she feel if someone told her the same thing, if she is ever incapacitated by her rheumatoid arthritis?

[PinkRibbons]

I went into this episode really, really trepidatious because I'm not a fan of Lea at all, and even less the prospect of her and Shawn having a romantic relationship. Morgan bluntly listing the reasons why not felt like a hat-tip to a lot of the fandom, although since it was coming from her I actually got even more nervous because I'm not sure if Morgan is supposed to be likable (I mean, I like her, but I'm not sure if that's the writers' intention, so her objections about Lea may have been their way of saying, "this person you don't like is saying it so clearly it's wrong", which...no).

But way to swerve beautifully show, making this not about romance but about Shawn's feelings of abandonment. That scene with Glassman made the episode for me, I got all verklempt.

Looking the other way to help addicts never ever turns out well on these shows, so I was expecting Claire's patient to at least be lying about this being his first time muling. The fact that he's clearly part of something fairly organized was just icing on the cake.

I loved Andrews talking about his wife; especially how he was first so obviously pleased at the idea of being better than Glassman. Then the way he talked about his wife was so genuine, I loved it.

[bros402]

...why were they acting like anesthesia is narcotic?

afaik it isn't

Also, Shaun and Carly need to see a therapist - individually and as a couple. Preferably one very familiar with autism

[AnimeMania]

I thought Carly instead of kicking out Lea should have asked Shaun to move in with her. They need to be more comfortable around each other and Shaun needs to see Carly as just another flawed human. This would force them to talk to each other, get to know each other, and learn to compromise.

There should be more than enough evidence to find Luca. They should have Video, DNA, and probably fingerprints. Since he and a friend (should be more than enough evidence to find them to) were able to break into the securest of areas without being caught, the hospital needs to review their security procedures.

[Good Doctor Fan]

Well I wonder what will happen to Leah.  Not much place for her if she and Shawn are not roommates.  She’s not been featured very much this season as it is.  I enjoyed the Shawn Leah interactions and found them much more enjoyable to watch than Shawn/Carly.  I guess Morgan and Glassman both told us why it should be Shawn/Carly and not Shawn/Leah, but they have to give us some fun relationship to watch!  
 

 

Loved,loved, loved the Andrews/Shawn relationship talk.  Really liking Andrews!

and loved, loved , loved the Shawn/Glassman scene.  Great tv there!

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Not sure about the resolution being that she wants him and Lea to no longer be roommates, but I guess I can see why she would want that right now. 

I can as well. I don't like ultimatums at all, and it does seem like Carly was implying that it was either he doesn't live with Lea or she can't be in the relationship (unsure, though; she never explicitly said that she'd break up with him if he didn't move out). But, I mean, Carly also makes a good point in that Shaun is more intimate with Lea and I can see why that bothers her. Even if I don't necessarily agree with all of Carly's actions, I can see her side and see why it bothers her. 

So, either the show is slowly easing Lea off the show (honestly, if she just moved out and was never seen again, I wouldn't complain but I also don't dislike Lea as much as I did in season 2) or they're finding a different way to include Lea into the show. By having her and Shaun not live together, it does add some complexity as to what they do with Lea. But....I don't know, I don't know if I like this direction in general. 

I didn't love how Carly immediately decided to confront Shaun on why he didn't text her back...but I also understand why she had to. The biggest struggle in their relationship is complete honesty and communication, so I can see why that was one of Carly's first questions. 

I did love the end scene between Carly/Shaun. I like how the episode led up to the big I Love You scene. And I like how it seems like Shaun is, for the moment, not interested in Lea anymore. I also liked Shaun's meltdown scene, because it revealed a lot more about how he's been feeling, and not in his usual way. No, he really dug deep about his feelings of abandonment. 

All I hope is that Carly and Shaun are getting to a better place where we can actually see them happy.

Oh, Claire! How I've missed this side of you! She's taking baby steps toward recovery over her PTSD and over everything with her mother, which is so nice to see. I still don't know if anyone besides Morgan knows about her mother being dead...they really aren't saying, so I don't really know. I also see that they may also be paving the way toward a possible Melendez/Claire...romance, maybe? Or just a friendship? I haven't decided yet.

I laughed at the smile that Andrews got when Shaun asked for his advice and said that he was better than Glassman...in the romantic advice department. 

5 hours ago, bros402 said:

...why were they acting like anesthesia is narcotic?

afaik it isn't
 

I did have to look it up, but it seems like there are some narcotics used in general anesthesia. 

[CarpeFelis]

OF COURSE the drugs were stolen. Even if Luca was completely truthful about his predicament, he was still on the hook to someone to deliver them or else. Claire didn’t think about that! (ETA: Park certainly should have.)

I was really surprised that they didn’t go the usual route of having Shaun come up with some ingenious cutting-edge alternative for the woman having the leg surgery. Deep brain stimulation or acupuncture or something. And it didn’t seem particularly realistic that she didn’t pass out from the pain.

The look on Shaun’s face when he and Carly hugged at the end made me wonder if he was more uncomfortable with the hug itself or with the “I love you”.

Edited January 14, 2020 by CarpeFelis
added comment

[tinderbox]

I was disappointed in the ending.  This episode didn’t lead me down the path of liking Carley and accepting her as Shaun’s romantic partner, at all.  There is something about the character that completely turns me off.  I like Lea, as Shaun’s friend, and hope she doesn’t vanish from the show.  It’s not like he interacts with a lot of “friends” outside of the hospital so, as a viewer, I really appreciate their interactions.

The Shaun/Glassman scene had me in tears.  Very well done.

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by tinderbox

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I have zero interest in shaun's love life and the fact that it took a large portion of the show made the premier a let down for me.

Also didn't get the patient with the fractured leg's objection for anesthesia. If you want to scream through pain, fine. I am not watching it. I signed up for entertainment, this isn't it

That leaves Claire's story which was the only positive character progression of the night. I loved her interactions with the patent. Claire's defining trait has always been kindness. I am glad it was highlighted here. 

From season 1, one could point at many instances of her interactions with Melendez and speculate that they are being set up as a pairing. It would be a slow burn by the time it happens. I am here for it

[AnimeMania]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I didn't love how Carly immediately decided to confront Shaun on why he didn't text her back...but I also understand why she had to. The biggest struggle in their relationship is complete honesty and communication, so I can see why that was one of Carly's first questions. 

I didn't like that Carly wanted to confront Shaun at work. She knows that Shaun is Shaun and she could have easily done that at home. It seemed very unprofessional.

[Mikita]

2 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

OF COURSE the drugs were stolen. Even if Luca was completely truthful about his predicament, he was still on the hook to someone to deliver them or else. Claire didn’t think about that! (ETA: Park certainly should have.)

This. Luca's life was in the balance if he didn't get those drugs to their owner. He may have been telling Claire the truth about it being his first time, but drug dealers want their product or their money I'm sure. I'm hoping that this doesn't set Claire back in her recovery process.

[vibeology]

58 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

From season 1, one could point at many instances of her interactions with Melendez and speculate that they are being set up as a pairing. It would be a slow burn by the time it happens. I am here for it

If Melendez dates a subordinate after the way he talked to Lim about her objectivity, he'd be the biggest asshole ever.

I get why Carly felt like she had to say something to Shaun at work; he wasn't communicating with her outside of work at all. That's a real challenge. She'd been texting and calling and was getting nothing back. She didn't even know that he was back in town so it's not like she could have gone to his place. I think they both did a good job of working through an issue. I still think until Shaun gets some therapy, he's going to struggle with all of her personal relationships, especially with an intimate one.

I knew things were going to go wrong for Claire, but I still hated everything about Park. He's consistently been too rigid and judgmental. So the show made sure he was right in the end because Claire can't win but that doesn't change the fact that his interactions with the patient were uncomfortable because he's a small scale asshole who thinks he's always right. I would love for an episode to address his attitudes and for him to be the one to get kicked for a change.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

16 minutes ago, vibeology said:

If Melendez dates a subordinate after the way he talked to Lim about her objectivity, he'd be the biggest asshole ever.

He'll be a hypocrite. Won't disagree.

But the heart want what it wants. If they want each other and aren't hurting anyone by being together, I have seen worst transgressions 

[Calibabydolly]

Does an epidural for childbirth involve narcotics? She said she had a natural birth because she refused the opioids. I guess since I have never had a baby, I cannot imagine any of the Duggar women having those drugs pumped in them! (on 19 kids+, Counting On)

Also, remember Michael Jackson died from an overdose of Propofol. It was used under the care of a real doctor so he could go to sleep! I knew that, just wondered if numbing the spinal cord would have worked in the leg surgery....or is that a whole different area of pain/nerves than child birth?

[hula-la]

12 hours ago, bros402 said:

...why were they acting like anesthesia is narcotic?

afaik it isn't

 

I'm not a doctor, but I know that for my most recent surgery, they gave me fentanyl as my anesthetic. I was worried for about half a second when the nurse told me, but them remembered that they are medical professionals, so know what they are doing. I was fine (aside from the fact that I threw up blue--we still have no idea why that happened).

[Fable]

There were some really nice moments in this episode, in particular Shaun/Glassman, Claire/Melendez and even Shaun/Andrews.  I did miss Dr. Lim though as she is one of my favorites. 

I honestly don’t like the relationship between Carly and Shaun at all.  Almost all of their scenes together are awkward and uncomfortable.  While I’m not Leah’s biggest fan, I still much prefer a friendship with her over a love relationship with Carly. 

[statsgirl]

That Shaun felt comfortable hugging with Lea while his relationship with Carly is so problematic reinforced to me what I have thought from the first season: Shaun should not be in a romantic relationship at this time.  Not everyone has to be paired up sexually.

My father was an MD who did hypnosis both for therapy and for surgery. The broken leg woman really could have used him, but of course they couldn't do hypnosis to keep the drama.

Claire's story reminded of a saying that my father had "If you tell me something, I believe you. If I find out that you've lied, I'm not surprised."  It's a great way to maintain sanity around your patients.

[Guest]

Shaun and Carly are exhausting to watch and this episode turned me off to them as a romantic pairing permanently. She's always groveling for scraps of affection and/or taking issue with his autism. If she's always sad or frustrated or horny, she should've taken the opportunity to dump him because they've shown us he's not communicative enough for her a billion times.

However, the alternative is absolutely not Lea. Shaun and Lea reminds me of myself and all the pseudo-relationships I thought I was going to have. People like Lea love friendships with disabled people because we fawn all over them with zero effort. They love the attention and validation of having their ego constantly stroked. They might even flirt a little because they get off on the idea that they could have you. And by "flirt a little" to be clear I mean calling you hot, talking about dating you, implying you might have sex, etc. But they will never, ever be attracted to you or interested in a relationship with you - they just think it's fun or amusing or doing you a favor to pretend they are. I thought we already established post-tequila fiasco that Lea had friendzoned Shaun indefinitely, so it's painful and patronizing to Shaun for the writers to act as if one hug suddenly equates to real romantic potential. Lea is an incredibly annoying character who doesn't take Shaun seriously as a person and is kind of ableist for exploiting Shaun for her own entertainment, but I have to hand it to them for the accuracy - I've had and continue to have many Leas in my life.

Melendez/Claire...meh. They missed their window for that before Lim/Melendez. I like him better with Lim and having him sleep around with multiple coworkers so close together (didn't his girlfriend before Lim also work at the hospital?) just makes him seem like a horndog.

[meatball77]

I couldn't figure out why they couldn't just give that woman a spinal or an epidural.

I don't like Sean and Carly because Carly treats him (and talks to him) like he's a student she's teaching. 

Sean and Lea aren't even an option and it's stupid for them to even act like it is.  She's his friend and has made it clear that is all she is to him.  He can't just decide that he wants to be with Lea because Lea doesn't want to be with him as anything more than a friend.

[RCB]

Um...I'm not sure the pulse test is an accurate way to figure out how much you really love someone, Shaun.

[kicotan]

20 hours ago, ShortyMac said:

How would she feel if someone told her the same thing, if she is ever incapacitated by her rheumatoid arthritis?

The most difficult thing for a neurotypical person to comprehend/deal with when it comes to Shaun, and others like him  is the selfishness.  Irregardless of why he’s selfish is the simple fact that he IS.

For a neurotypical person to engage in a successful relationship with a completely selfish/narcissistic person is extremely difficult.  Doesn’t mean that Shaun, or others like him who aren’t neurotypical, don’t have any redeeming qualities.

[kicotan]

2 hours ago, meatball77 said:

I don't like Sean and Carly because Carly treats him (and talks to him) like he's a student she's teaching. 

I don’t like them together because it seems like Carly is trying to mold him into a person she would be having a relationship with that doesn’t include the differences that Shaun brings to the table.

Why should she be upset that he could snuggle with Lea and not so much with her?  Or that he could go for days without answering her texts or calls?  It’s not like she should have ANY expectation that he would act or react like a neurotypical “boyfriend” and realize that ignoring her would cause her concern.  He can’t help coming of as a self-centered, narcissistic asshole...she knew that going in to their relationship.  It’s buggy that she’s trying to make him conform to some “boyfriend” code of neurotypical behavior when he obviously isn’t cut out that way.

[tennisgurl]

This is a set back, but Claire is finally starting to recover from her moms death, and not a moment too soon! It was great seeing her getting back to her compassionate self (and if she got burned) and she and Park are a fun pair. They are quite good at the whole good cop/bad cop routine, even if Park isnt a cop anymore. The guy really does struggle with turning that part of himself off, even now. 

When Carly and Shaun are in a good place, I really like them, but they are so rarely in a good place. I dont mind them having conflicts in their relationship, nor do I think that Shaun shouldn't date at all (he is clearly attracted to her, even if he struggles with how to show it) but I want them to just have some episodes where they are getting along without any drama, as there always seems to be something. I wish Shaun had told Carly what all went down with his awful parents, she probably would have been like "damn, I totally get it, have a cuddle puddle do what you need doing" or at least gotten more context for why he was snuggling Leah. I guess I can kind of get that Leah is an issue in their relationship, as she and Shaun have a pretty complicated relationship and he had a crush on her at one point, but at the same time, its kind of unfair to make him leave one of his only friends. It should be a good thing that he feels comfortable with someone, right? He has known Leah longer, so hopefully they could get there too one day, and she knows how he is and what his issues are. 

Count me in on being confused by the stuff with the drugs and the surgery, I would think that they could use an anesthetic, which is in fact not a narcotic as far as I know. I got the willies just looking at that surgery! Nasty!

Poor Shaun's meltdown was so sad, his parents really are the worst. I got angry all over again just seeing the stupid dad in the Previously Ons, screw that guy and his enabler wife! 

Shaun asking Andrews for relationship advice was probably my favorite part of the episode, he looked so happy to be asked! He even stood up a little straighter! 

Edited January 15, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Prower]

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I didn't love how Carly immediately decided to confront Shaun on why he didn't text her back...but I also understand why she had to. The biggest struggle in their relationship is complete honesty and communication, so I can see why that was one of Carly's first questions. 

I think when your partner's father dies, you can let that shit slide.

Maybe once he dies a third time and this happens again, you can say somethting... wait what do you mean with "somebody can only die once and thus this is an extraordinary circumstance that will never happen again"?

21 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

Morgan bluntly listing the reasons why not felt like a hat-tip to a lot of the fandom

Oh god, I loved that part so much. How is it that Morgan is usually the only voice of reason in these episodes? At least now the writers seem to actually intend her to be. Seems like earlier she was meant to come off as a bitch and it was coincidental that she was always right.

10 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Also didn't get the patient with the fractured leg's objection for anesthesia. If you want to scream through pain, fine. I am not watching it. I signed up for entertainment, this isn't it

Me neither. She wouldn't even take an epidural, which is a local nerve block with local anesthesia that isn't an opiod.

She seems to be too dumb to take care of a child, tbh. Somebody with an IQ of 60 should understand this.

8 hours ago, Calibabydolly said:

Also, remember Michael Jackson died from an overdose of Propofol. It was used under the care of a real doctor so he could go to sleep!

"A real doctor". You can never forget the quotation marks there. Micheal Jackson went through a bunch of doctors who wouldn't give him the drug, because using Propofol for sleeplesness is like nuking a city to get rid of a single rat, until he found one unethical enough to give it to him.

3 hours ago, meatball77 said:

I couldn't figure out why they couldn't just give that woman a spinal or an epidural.

They had a throwaway line that she refused it. Which makes her the dumbest person on earth... probably could have let her get declared mentally incompetent on that one alone...

[bros402]

11 hours ago, hula-la said:

I'm not a doctor, but I know that for my most recent surgery, they gave me fentanyl as my anesthetic. I was worried for about half a second when the nurse told me, but them remembered that they are medical professionals, so know what they are doing. I was fine (aside from the fact that I threw up blue--we still have no idea why that happened).

According to this article I found from the American Association of Nurse Anesthetists, there are quite a few options for opioid free anesthesia.

I mean they could have at LEAST given her some Ativan - yes, it is addictive, but one pill won't hook her. It'd at least make her not remember chunks of the surgery.

[rmontro]

Regarding drilling into that lady's leg without anesthesia:  Yeah, I didn't need to see that.

I'm wondering just how easy it is for a recovering patient to get up and go steal a sample from the hospital lab and disappear into the night?  

When Luca was thanking Claire after the surgery, I kept expecting the cops to show up and arrest him.

[Virtual]

Injuries like the one that the mother had are very serious and need to be treated immediately. I'm glad she wasn't enough of an idiot to refuse that, at least. But she still earns a lot of points in that department for refusing anything that could remove the pain during the procedure. Dr. Andrews even told her that the hospital would refer her to a counselor in the event that she did relapse, and she STILL refused! All because she was afraid that her husband would leave her if he knew about her past. Hiding something that big will take its mental toll on you as well, and destroy your life slowly.

I also found Morgan's "she puts up with you and your stuff" comment to Shaun about Carly to be very insensitive (especially since, as one poster pointed out, she's got a problem of her own that could affect her life) but everything else she said about Carly was spot on, and everything she said about Lea as well. Carly's clearly a better option for Shaun relationship-wise than Lea, because Carly stops to think about how certain actions affect people (if her one flaw was not including Shaun in a GIRLS night, I think she's great). Lea on the other hand, already kissed Shaun once (and she knew that the experience gave him feelings for her) and then skipped town. Maybe she's learned from that, since Shaun and Glassman both called her on it, but I don't think Shaun should be so fast to just trust her fully again. Lea IS a good friend to Shaun though, so I do think she is good for him in that way. And Carly's feelings about him being able to do with Lea what they had been trying for weeks and failed were completely understandable..

I will also assume that the guy who came in to be treated for the balloons was in bigger trouble than he ever let on, and that's why he came back to steal his sample with the drugs in it (if it was him?). Huge points for Claire, and since David Shore will never let her win and enjoy it, I will! She deserves it.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Zenlethic

[MoreCoffeePlease]

Quote

I couldn't figure out why they couldn't just give that woman a spinal or an epidural.

I really try NOT to nitpick medical shows, but they do get so ridiculous. (New Amsterdam, especially!)  They didn't have an orthopedic surgeon in on the case?!?  They could have borrowed the Jane Leeves doctor character from The Resident.  😉

I am over Carly and Shaun. Carly, you shouldn't have to work so hard at the relationship. Are you happy? Is he giving you what you need? Doesn't seem like it.

 

[ShortyMac]

15 hours ago, kicotan said:

The most difficult thing for a neurotypical person to comprehend/deal with when it comes to Shaun, and others like him  is the selfishness.  Irregardless of why he’s selfish is the simple fact that he IS.

For a neurotypical person to engage in a successful relationship with a completely selfish/narcissistic person is extremely difficult.  Doesn’t mean that Shaun, or others like him who aren’t neurotypical, don’t have any redeeming qualities.

It's about the "saint/hero" title that society places on parents/spouses/family/friends of disabled/non-neurotypical people. That Shaun or whoever should be grateful that anyone wants to be with them, and all that the media shows is their issues and struggles.

[izabella]

On 1/14/2020 at 12:50 AM, ShortyMac said:

I didn't appreciate Reznick saying to Shaun, about Carly, "the fact that she's willing to deal with all of your 'stuff' means that you should be thanking whatever god you pray to that you ever met her."

Another ableist example of how disabled/non-neurotypical people are only to be 'tolerated,' and have no redeeming qualities, and are not people, like anyone else, outside of their conditions. 

How would she feel if someone told her the same thing, if she is ever incapacitated by her rheumatoid arthritis?

I don't entirely agree with that.  I can't tell you how many times my friends and I have said something similar...

"OMG, I am so lucky!  I can't imagine how my husband puts up with my neurotic/insecure/thoughtless/messy/etc. shit all the time!"

Those of us who have made mistakes in our lives in our pasts also feel grateful that someone loves us anyway and is willing to put up with our "stuff."   Those of us who have divorced, or who had many years of being alone before we found someone also feel grateful when we do.  Reznick's words to Shuan don't just apply to, or resonate with, someone with autism or who is disabled.

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by izabella

[DearEvette]

I really wish I knew what they were trying to accomplish with the romance between Shaun and Carly.  AS it is playing out on screen it is just uncomfortable to watch on all sides.

On his side, Shaun just plain looks/acts like he is not ready for a full on grown-up romance despite what he says.

On her side, Carly just feels like someone who is putting a yeoman's effort into a relationship where the return is very small and is having her feelings battered because of it.

If the idea, as I presume it is supposed to be, is for the show to let us in Shaun's world as he navigates all the 'typical' things of life but from a neurodivergent perspective, then I wish we'd get some wins instead of a litany of frustrations to let us hang in there with them.  It would be nice if we could see a clear and visible progression in the relationship, even if it is only 3 steps forward and 1 step back.  We'd be actually moving forward.  As it is, it  currently it feels like they are either standing in place or going 1/2 step forward and 3 steps back.  So no progression at all.  And I am not sure if it is direction or an acting choice but I am just  not feeling Shaun's need for this. 

Re; The knee surgery woman.  I am wondering if she refuses any drugs that could even be considered half-way addictive?  Addiction is physical, yes, but there is also a powerful mental component.  She struck me as someone who was determined to stay clean but was very aware of the lure of her addiction.  So maybe even the thought of having had something, even something that put you under,  could be a trigger to backsliding.  Even if it is not truly addictive, coming out from under anathesia or something could mimic the feelings of well-being that one has when one is under the influence of their drug of choice.  So she uses the pain as a way to stop her from using the drugs.  Kinda like that one case in Season 1 were the fiancee and the parents were arguing over whether to amputate a ex- addict climber's leg.  He substituted his 'adrenaline junkie' rushes for his drug and if he couldn't climb/run anymore it might have been the trigger that caused him to slide back into his addiction.

[rmontro]

7 hours ago, Zenlethic said:

I will also assume that the guy who came in to be treated for the balloons was in bigger trouble than he ever let on, and that's why he came back to steal his sample with the drugs in it (if it was him?).

Good point, it could have been the drug dealer who was using Luca as a mule who broke in and stole the sample (or more likely, his minions).  Maybe he was afraid it would lead back to him, or maybe he wanted his drugs (investment) back.  I don't know if they just kept the sample or the whole supply of balloons.

[vavera4ka]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 1:14 PM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

He'll be a hypocrite. Won't disagree.

But the heart want what it wants. If they want each other and aren't hurting anyone by being together, I have seen worst transgressions 

yeah, IRL I wouldn't root for that kind of relationship. but it's a TV show. I can suspend some disbelief if it's worth my while. Doesn't hurt that those two actors have insane chemistry.  And both characters need a "win" in personal life too.

Am I shallow to want this? yes. is it a trainwreck IRL? sure. but, damit show, give me Claire and Melendez romance! lol I'm ok with it being a slow burn.

[kicotan]

sorry, wrong thread

Edited January 16, 2020 by kicotan

[ForReal]

18 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I really wish I knew what they were trying to accomplish with the romance between Shaun and Carly.  AS it is playing out on screen it is just uncomfortable to watch on all sides.

On his side, Shaun just plain looks/acts like he is not ready for a full on grown-up romance despite what he says.

On her side, Carly just feels like someone who is putting a yeoman's effort into a relationship where the return is very small and is having her feelings battered because of it.

ITA. While I do understand Carly's feelings, to me she is asking him to be honest, and then punishing him for his honesty. I get that she feels threatened by the fact that he has an easy comfort with Leah and not with her, but asking him to not live with Leah is way out of line and borders on controlling. They haven't been dating all that long, and it's his first relationship. This is too much too soon, and will no doubt blow up in the next episode or two.

[rmontro]

8 hours ago, ForReal said:

I get that she feels threatened by the fact that he has an easy comfort with Leah and not with her, but asking him to not live with Leah is way out of line and borders on controlling.

I thought there was some similarity between his being comfortable with Leah and with his hugging Glassman.

As for Carly, I wouldn't seriously date a woman who lived with some free spirited guy who sometimes spent the night in the same bed as her either.  I don't see it as controlling, he can just as easily tell her no, and then Carly can decide whether she wants that in her life or not.

Edited January 16, 2020 by rmontro

[cbetsky]

re: leg surgery woman - earlier this year my mother had hip replacement surgery and the surgeon opted for a spinal (not for addiction reasons - there's a possible family history of malignant hypothermia). Granted, she also got something that knocked her out so that she couldn't hear what was going on, but if a spinal anesthetic worked for an operation where they saw off part of your bone and then hammer in a replacement ball, it should have worked for the leg surgery. She might have opted not to have the whatever knockout drug, but she still should have not had to have the pain. And if there was some reason for not using a spinal, that should have been part of their discussions of what they could do for her.

[mojito]

Quote

I couldn't figure out why they couldn't just give that woman a spinal or an epidural.

I would've asked for laughing gas. Pump up the nitrous, play some music, and zone out.

Ugh, Shaun and Carly. This woman is so needy. And now, it seems, controlling, too. I could envision her going all "fatal attraction" on Shaun. She's just not right. And in every way, she seems too damned old for him. 

Glassman told Shaun that he's a doctor. I thought he was going to expound on that, telling Shaun to focus on being a doctor. Spend time being a single working guy, Shaun. Just about everyone you know is in the same boat. And you even have a fun roommate.

[possibilities]

On 1/14/2020 at 1:50 AM, ShortyMac said:

How would she feel if someone told her the same thing, if she is ever incapacitated by her rheumatoid arthritis?

I agree with you, but I do know a lot of people who feel this way about themselves. If the show were to set that up and then knock it down, I'd consider it a worthy endeavor. But I don't know that they will. They seem to have mixed feelings about respect and value vs pity and condescension

 

On 1/15/2020 at 2:25 PM, izabella said:

Those of us who have made mistakes in our lives in our pasts also feel grateful that someone loves us anyway and is willing to put up with our "stuff." 

Yes, but it's typically only used as a dramatic device when targeting a disabled person. We don't see characters say this to anyone else. We didn't even see it when Glassman had cancer and Debbie wanted to be with him, and he was a puking, surly, possibly dying mess. And if someone HAD said it to him, that he should be grateful she was willing to deal with him, it would have been harsh and insulting and no one wants a partner who's there because they're a hero or a martyr, nor do they want their friends to think anyone who'd put up with them is a rare miracle they should be grateful for.

I mean, sure, we're all grateful and awed by love. But it's only framed in this particular way when a non-disabled person loves a disabled one.

--

Autism and narcissism are not the same thing at all.

--

I agree it would help to see more of the good times between Shaun and Carly, and not only how hard they work at their relationship.

I also still miss seeing Shaun and Claire interact. They've been separated for many episodes, and they used to work well together and seemed to me like real friends. I also hate how the show never lets Claire have a win. No one else gets beat up so much on this show!

I think Carly's discomfort and confusion about Shaun being comfortable sleeping/being hugged by Lea is understandable. If the roles had been reversed, and she'd had that with someone else while struggling for months to do it with Shaun, he also would likely have felt like it meant she didn't really care for him. It's compounded by his ignoring her texts, not telling her he was back from his trip, and not inviting her to come with him in the first place. Shaun thought she hated him-- that's what he told Glassman-- after she expressed her hurt and distress over his behavior. Both of them are insecure in the relationship. Her thinking maybe he doesn't take her seriously seems pretty understandable.

I think tv and movies make love seem like a high, and struggles in relationships are always a prelude to separation. In real life, I think sometimes that's true but other times not. People with trauma often struggle establishing intimacy. But it doesn't always mean they aren't capable or compatible. I am not sure what I think about Shaun and Carly at this point. I'd like to see not only more of what goes well between them, but also more of who she is in general. She's a very under-developed character.

 

[rmontro]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

I agree it would help to see more of the good times between Shaun and Carly, and not only how hard they work at their relationship.

I have to agree with that, pretty much all we see of Carly is her standing around with a shocked, hurt look on her face.

[Emma9]

On January 15, 2020 at 5:41 PM, rmontro said:

Good point, it could have been the drug dealer who was using Luca as a mule who broke in and stole the sample (or more likely, his minions).  Maybe he was afraid it would lead back to him, or maybe he wanted his drugs (investment) back.  I don't know if they just kept the sample or the whole supply of balloons.

It definitely sounded to me like just one sample. I'd been thinking earlier that the patient's life wasn't going to be all roses even if he'd gone with Claire's plan, because he'd be running from both the police and whoever the drugs were supposed to go to. He'd probably have been better off snitching for at least a chance at protection.

Either him or the dealer stealing back a single balloon wouldn't have made sense to me for that reason, given the relative quantity he'd still owe them, but interesting point about maybe the specific formulation of the drugs could be traced and that's what they were trying to avoid.

~

Count me in with everyone confused over painkiller woman. Nerve block, paralytic, even put her in a coma - if they really wanted to have the scene with her screaming in pain and clutching Shaun, at least come up with reasons why something like that wouldn't work (say they needed to check whether she could wiggle her toes partway through the surgery if they were cutting too close to nerves, or something).

Edited January 19, 2020 by Emma9

[Trini]

Cases of the week: I'm Not A Doctor, But (tm) I'm pretty sure there are several non-opioid options for pain relief/anesthesia so this whole subplot made no sense to me. I'm not sure what the point was? The patient seemed to be completely driven by fear.

Drug mule: Can't let Claire have a win, can they? But otherwise, thought this was good; and they remembered Park's police background. Liked the Claire/Melendez scene; but I don't think they're going romantic with that. At least not anytime soon. Still disappointed that Claire and Shaun barely talk this season. Glad they're showing Claire making progress with her therapy.

Not here for a Carly/Shaun/Lea love triangle - no, just, NO.

I did really like that they gave more reasons as to why Shaun and Carly like each other. I still wish they would have more scenes of their good times rather than focus on their struggles as a couple. I'm rooting for these two, and Carly's reaction was essentially my reaction to Shaun's "I love you". Aw!

[rmontro]

12 hours ago, Trini said:

Cases of the week: I'm Not A Doctor, But (tm) I'm pretty sure there are several non-opioid options for pain relief/anesthesia so this whole subplot made no sense to me. I'm not sure what the point was? The patient seemed to be completely driven by fear.

Yeah, I agree.  It's almost a week later and it still makes no sense.  Your "driven by fear" theory is about the only thing that might explain it.