S39.E11: A Very Simple Plan

[nlkm9]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Really, anyone who can't keep his hands off the young girls'  toes has no business calling people "weirdo."

That's the part I can't excuse anymore.  Just the way he talks about anyone who's not on his side in the game is enough to make me despise him.

Yes. I noticed a few week's ago, when she said she felt so relived when she saw "Tommy's big lazy body," coming back  it sounded a little like she found him attractive.

----------------------------------------------

All the comments about Noura needing medication bother me a little bit because, (1) I just think she needs to learn that it's not really that "nourable" when she blurts out everything she thinks and she should take a few minutes to calm down first.  Calling out Elaine's idol was not nice and served no purpose but to keep the spotlight on her a few minutes longer. (2)  I think when someone says so-and-so-odd-person needs medication it increases stigma against those who have  serious mental illness.

I have family who suffer from schizophrenia. They truly need their medication. Noura just needs to learn that she's not as "fun to be around" as her family has told her she is.

I cannot believe anyone would vote for Noura--she is a liar and in my mind her actions were completely ridiculous last nite. I went from really liking her to being disgusted with her. ugh.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

The way Tommy and Dan have reacted to anyone daring to bring up their name or speak up about their behavior (in Dan’s case) and how vindictive they feel about being slighted makes me think clearly they’ve coasted through life having hardly been called out for any unsavory behavior and it shows what entitled dudes they are. “Teaching Moment with” Tommy can GTFO (but I think he has like a 99% chance of winning amongst this sorry bunch unfortunately), and Dan, well he could get castrated for all I care. 

[nlkm9]

2 hours ago, Hpmec said:

I assume the contestant screening process includes some degree of health to ascertain weather or not a player would be able to survive the rigors of the game. Shouldn't mental health factor in? Noura is either a very convincing actress or a seriously ill individual. I cannot fathom how she made the contestant cut, and it is very uncomfortable watching her unhinged ramblings.

And Karishma is most definitely a useless pain in the ass, but that quality would make her the goatiest of goats. Stupid move. And the producers, who no doubt paid big bucks to lure Rob and Sandra back, wasted their money by giving them so little to do they've become non-entities. Just a lot of stupidity in the air ths season. 

I seriously dislike Karishma but was hoping against hope she could win a challenge so she could have that experience. She actually seems like a nice person but her i=utter lack of effort in challenges and camp life annoys me so--andI wonder why someone like that would even go on survivor, so ill give her that--I know I would never last on there lol, thats all I would give her props for. 

On 12/2/2019 at 10:49 AM, Whimsy said:

original air date 12/4/2019

heres a wierd random question--have they ever had a contestant with sleep apnea that required a cpap before? Just a random thing I think of when I watch the show, I am extremely athletic but use a cpap. just curious, I think it would be a disqualifier for sure.

[Rachel RSL]

I never got the impression that Karishma didn't put any effort into the challenges, I just think she's not the greatest athlete and sucked at them, but not for lack of trying.  I'd be the same way, which is one of the 967 zillion reasons why I could never be on this show.

[nlkm9]

15 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Oh, you missed a good quote from Dan.  He called Dean, Noura, Karishma, and Elaine a bunch of rag tag losers and weirdos.  In front of his 13 year old son, as well as the loved ones of Lauren, Tommy, and Janet.

I was thrilled Janet won, but sad that Tommy was part of her pair.  Equally sad that they picked Dan and Lauren to join them, but it wasn't surprising.

I felt bad for Lauren that Karishma was her challenge partner--thats just not fair

[ProfCrash]

19 minutes ago, Drogo said:

The votes were also cast for the winner prior to her passing, IIRC, so he didn't exploit her death for votes.  

Didn't Karishma also smack someone in the head while they were sleeping because the rat jumped into the shelter? 

I didn't like that Tommy said he was crying "like one of his fourth grade girls."  He ought to know that just as many crying fourth graders are boys.    

I believe the rat crawled into her mouth and she woke up screaming and hit someone. I would freak out as well. Karishma seem to have a few take a ways from this experience 1) She loves her husband and he is a great person 2) she is never going camping

[fishcakes]

Because of Elaine's confessional about how she was going to make a big move, all through TC I held out a faint hope that Dean outing Noura and making her go batshit was all an elaborate ruse to make the majority vote for her only to have Elaine save her with the idol and send Tommy home. Like maybe Dean and Elaine had this meeting of the masterminds (ha ha, and I wasn't even drunk) conversation where they decided that they couldn't count on Noura to stick to a plan so they'd have to exploit her unreliability, expose her, save her, and then keep her for a goat. But no. Instead they vote for Karishma, Elaine burns her idol, and Dean finds some more papyrus so he can write Tommy an, "I like you. Do you like me? ⬜ Yes ⬜ No" note.

I'm disappointed in Janet even though I know she doesn't have all the information we have about Dan and she's doing what she has to in order to stay in the game, but DAMN. I wish we could get one confessional from her about Dan like the one Sandra gave about Russell where she says she doesn't want to work with him but she's stuck with it. Just something so my skin doesn't crawl every time I see her being friendly with him.

Now that we've seen more of how on-the-outs Karishma has been all season, I think it's pretty shitty that TPTB aired that bit where she was talking about her husband being basically just a roommate. Whether she meant it at the time or was just trying to get sympathy from the others, it never should have been shown. It didn't affect the game at all, but it could affect her marriage. It's not like fucking Dan the Groper, whose wife should be filing for divorce right this second; his conduct in the game hurt other people in the game and so it was relevant and should have been aired. Karishma's misguided talk affected no one but herself and her husband, who in this situation, is an innocent bystander.

15 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Any chance Rick Devens and Chris Underwood can crash the show this season?

If it turns out Reem has been living at the Edge of Extinction for the last year and they put her in this game on Day 39, then I will root for Reem.

2 hours ago, Hpmec said:

I assume the contestant screening process includes some degree of health to ascertain weather or not a player would be able to survive the rigors of the game. Shouldn't mental health factor in? Noura is either a very convincing actress or a seriously ill individual. I cannot fathom how she made the contestant cut, and it is very uncomfortable watching her unhinged ramblings.

They do a mental health screening, but I think the standards have gotten a lot looser since the early seasons. They want drama, so if someone is delusional like Coach or has an anger management problem like Brandon, then they'll cross their fingers and look away. In any case, I don't think Noura is mentally ill, just hyper and annoying and lacking all social skills.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

3 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

What I did not find to be genuine was Karishma's Razzie-worthy performance during the loved one visit.  The only thing worse than a sad sack, is a sad sack playing up their sad sackness for the cameras.  Going back to the early episodes, I can totally see now why they left her lying face down in the sand after her life-threatening papercut or whatever it was and didn't bother checking on her lol.

I wish I could heart this 1000x. 

I swear, I sprained my eyeballs with the amount of rolling I put then through during the Loved One Visit.  Krishnma's was just the worst.  Not only did she have completely dry eyes thru all her dramatic "sobbing," the others just watched that debacle wuth stone-faced indifference.  Cracked me up.  Usually, the observers are basket cases for everyone.  Karishma?  Not so much.

1 hour ago, rasalas said:

Did anyone else notice that Lauren's ball had what looked to be a crease on it? It was on the side that was against the wooden frame, so it would have slightly flattened the ball -- making it less likely to roll off. Not implying producer shenanigans here, but I just thought that was weird.

OK, I didn't even pick up on that but what did bother me is the fact that I don't think any adjustments were made for height differences on that challenge.  Maybe it didn't make a difference in the end since two of the shorter people were the last ones standing but I felt like holding that ball with bent arms would give an advantage over those who had to outstretch their arms further.  Just my two cents.  And I'm still pissed that Lauren and her theatrics outlasted Elaine.  I cannot STAND her and her fucking tears so close to the surface when something doesn't go her way.

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, plurie said:

Have none of these people ever watched SURVIVOR before? They should NEVER pick their core alliance members for the reward, especially if it's one that everyone wants. Of course, Noura would go batshit crazy when she's passed over. If Dean wasn't such a dumbass, Tommy would be sitting in Ponderosa.

I was thinking the same thing.  They should have picked Noura because she is crazy and vindictive and they needed to convince her she wasn't on the bottom.   There was zero need for Tommy to bring Lauren.  

I am on the fence about whether they also should have taken Dean instead of Dan.  Normally, I would say yes.  But, though Dan is very strategic, he is also a vindictive dick and might have been tempted to flip out of spite.    Also, Dean is such a pathetic lap dog, that they didn't even need to throw him a bone.   

[Bryce Lynch]

52 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Her exit interview at the medical tent makes it pretty darn clear that she is not doing another season. She saw it as a personal test and she was miserable the entire time. The rats and cockroaches were real and she was not a happy camper. She freaks out when a cockroach crawls on her during medical and the Doctor has to calm her down. That is 32 days into this experience. I suspect we will not see her out there again.

Karishma definitely was not built for this game.  But, I am impressed that she kept fighting and hung in there for 32 days.  

[Kaiju Ballet]

Janet is such a badass, taking that hard tumble and bleeding but is all "I'm ok, carry on." So far she and Elaine are the only ones I can root for.

Yes, Dan is reprehensible--it's almost unbearable to see him still there -- but by mending the bridge with him, Janet's survived the last few tribals and is no longer the obvious first choice to vote out.   

I feel bad for the Dan's son--I'm sure he's hearing from his friends about how Dan is, and that's gotta suck especially with this episode airing.

Lauren....every time I want to like you, you say something arrogant and unnecessarily condescending about the other castaways in your confessional. Still hoping that Elaine outlasts her.

Whoever upthread branded Tommy's response every time he's told his name comes up as "serial killer eyes" ---brilliant! I cannot unsee!

Lol, I thought my DVR had cut off the beginning of Survivor. It was worth it.

Dean....angling to take Lauren's position as Tommy's ride-or-die. It'll be satisfying to see his smug face taken out.

But yeah, BR is right. They're idiots to have taken out Karishma instead of Tommy.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, Special K said:

My sixth grade teacher was a man and a great teacher.  He set me on a career path that I'm still on to this day (many decades later). 

I know there are exceptions.  But, in my experience most men who teach elementary school are there because they are too weak and childish to teach middle school or high school.  One of my daughters had a male 2nd grade teacher who did backflips off desks, during class.  My other daughter had a 5th grade teacher who was very immature and injured a classmate of her by throwing a ball at her in class and hitting her in the face. (He thought it was fun to randomly throw a ball in kids faces when they weren't expecting it).  He then tried to punish my daughter for saying "Why did you do that!"   I had a discussion with the principal who made the jackass apologize and grovel   

At any rate, if you teach 9 year olds, it doesn't give you any experience to give "teaching moments" to grown ass men and women.   That comment confirmed to me that Tommy fits my stereotype of male elementary school teachers who do that job because it is their only way to feel powerful.    

[Drogo]

17 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I never got the impression that Karishma didn't put any effort into the challenges, I just think she's not the greatest athlete and sucked at them, but not for lack of trying. 

The one that sticks out in memory is when she was tied to Noura (below) and Noura had to go like seven feet in front of the mat in order to drag Karishma across it.  

That's some Weekend At Bernie's level dragging.        

[Rachel RSL]

Yes, because Karishma isn't a great athlete and was struggling.  But she definitely tried, she just couldn't get moving in the sand.

[CletusMusashi]

I'm only two pages in to this episode thread, so sorry if I'm repeating points that have already been made, but:

Noura is a progressively more hilarious train wreck. Glad she's still in the game.

Karishma was also terrible. I will miss watching her annoy the others.

I will say one nice thing about Dean. His mom is hot.

Unlike most, I will not be upset if Lauren or Tommy win. As long as they can keep most of the others from voting them out, then they are using a successful strategy. Kind of like how I didn't fault Boston Rob for his tribe being too stupid to get rid of him. 

One guilty confession: I would sort of rather see Dan go to the finals and get torn into by the jury than voted out earlier and put into a position of power on the jury. The reason I feel guilty about it is that the higher you place, the more money you get paid, but I think at this point his image is more important to him than a few thousand bucks. I really don't want to see him get the privilege of lording it over people who lasted longer than him.

[Drogo]

"Not a great athlete" is a very kind description; I would say Karishma is a spoiled, slothful mess. 

She "tried" to get moving in that sand like she "tried" to grab the Island of the Idols note from Jamal and she "tried" to volunteer to go to Island of the Idols instead of Lauren.

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Well Dean and his Mom told the story about how he cried his way all through high school so perhaps that factored in to his need to be one of the "cool kids" on Survivor

I'd be interested to know what the story is there because it would explain a lot about Dean and why he ruined a perfectly good plan. He was so worried Noura couldn't be trusted but he was the one who blew the plan apart, not her. Granted, we don't know what Noura might have said or done given the chance, but Dean's the one they couldn't trust.

There's obviously some kind of insecurity at play in Dean's behavior, and I agree with those who think he simply couldn't stand to be one of the bottom feeders and was desperate for Tommy's approval. Whatever trauma he went through in school obviously played a part in that. I'll refrain from any further speculation but you can probably guess where I'd be going with this.

Quote

Since when did they allow the contestants to talk and argue and scheme among themselves DURING Tribal Council?  I hate that.  If it had not happened I think Dean and Noura might have stuck to the original plan and taken out Tommy.

Quote

I hope next season they make a rule against this.

I prefer the tribal council chaos to Jeff's tedious and self-important philosophizing. I'm sure the producers do too. Don't look for it to end anytime soon, I'm sure at this point it's being encouraged.

[Rachel RSL]

Oh FFS.  I got trapped in the stupid quote box again and now I'm just too annoyed to re-type so forget it. 

Move along, nothing to see here...

Edited December 5, 2019 by Rachel RSL

[Wouldofshouldof]

1 hour ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

OK, I didn't even pick up on that but what did bother me is the fact that I don't think any adjustments were made for height differences on that challenge.  Maybe it didn't make a difference in the end since two of the shorter people were the last ones standing but I felt like holding that ball with bent arms would give an advantage over those who had to outstretch their arms further.

No, they did adjust for height.  When Tommy stepped down I noticed how short the box he was standing on was in comparison to the box belonging to whichever female he was next to.

[Eolivet]

22 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Whatever trauma he went through in school obviously played a part in that. I'll refrain from any further speculation but you can probably guess where I'd be going with this.

I wasn't thinking that, but I am now. Substitute Tommy for Christian, and Dean for Gabby and I could see it. Girls aren't the only ones who get crushes on pretty boys (or what passes for "pretty boys" on Survivor).

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

It was Karishma.  Underneath Noura she wrote “will NEVER know best”.  I can’t remember if we have seen Noura saying “I’ll always know what’s best” but clearly Karishma used the vote as an opportunity to dig at Noura.  Sometimes people will put unhappy faces next to their vote or something complimentary, but never negative.   So unnecessarily nasty, and coming from sad sack loser Karishma of all people.

I hope we never have to see Karishma again but I fear that Jeffy thinks her story would be a great story for a Second Chances season.

It was a reference to Noura's Twitter handle "nouraknowsbest1"   It was originally "nouraknowsbest" but she forgot her password and had to create a new account.   

There was a great line by Bradley on the Know it Alls Live podcast last night.  

"Noura is loony as a goat on crack.  Goats are crazy to begin with.  Then you give them crack and they're Noura."  

[Nashville]

15 hours ago, LanceM said:

"I am like you Karishma except I am fun to be around"

oh Noura. lol

Yeah, I had to pause/back up the DVR and call the wife into the room to replay THAT one.  😄

15 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Dean's a smug little weasel who thinks he's besties with Tommy or something. I think he truly believes he's the true Fifth Member of that Power Four, or he thinks he's just above Janet. 

Personally I thought Dean’s move was moderately smart gameplay for Dean’s personal game.  Way to thin out the competition for goatiest goat, Dean!  😉

15 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Man, it was so frustrating because I had just gotten pure joy when Elaine found the idol and I thought that meant that Lauren, Tommy, or Dan were going to go.

Now that Elaine has actually found an idol, though - and she knows what to look for - I’m hoping she has an advantage in scooping the next replacement idol.

3 hours ago, Drogo said:

Karishma, a month ago:  My husband's more like a roommate, and I only agreed to marry him so I could stop bringing shame to my family. I don't think I should have married him.

Karishma, two weeks ago: No one here likes me so I should probably stay with my husband who's at least nice to me.

Karishma, last night:  

Several questions were immediately cleared up for me upon seeing Karishma’s husband last night.  

To me the single most irritating facet of Karishma’s personality is, simply put, her childishness.  A perfect example was Karishma’s cut on the hand - and her response is to crouch down on the sand, arm/hand out, waiting for someone to come check on / take care of her (HEYYALLBLEEDINGTODEATHOVERHERE).  This reminded me of nothing more than a 2nd grader exaggerating a minor injury like a skinned knee for attention from Teacher - and when Karishma doesn’t get the attention she feels she deserves, her response is to get upset and pouty.  Childish because a grown-ass adult would’ve simply asked Medical to take a look at the cut, without all the theatrics.  Curious because most people have outgrown such behavior by their mid-20s at the VERY outside extreme.

But when Karishma’s hubby came trotting out, it was immediately clear Hubby has something like 15 years on Karishma - which meant he was something like half again Karishma’s age when they got married - and the persistence of Karishma’s childish behavior into her late 30s suddenly became much less of a mystery.  When Karishma got married, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Karishma moved straight out from under her parents’ roof to that of her new husband - and a significant part of their marital dynamic would more closely resemble a father/daughter relationship than that of a husband/wife.

3 hours ago, Drogo said:

I'd count Dean as the biggest goat remaining.  

And I expect that’s exactly what Dean is counting upon.

2 hours ago, Special K said:

General of the Goat Army

Goat Army General... hmmm... GAG for short?  😆

1 hour ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

I swear, I sprained my eyeballs with the amount of rolling I put then through during the Loved One Visit.  Krishnma's was just the worst.  Not only did she have completely dry eyes thru all her dramatic "sobbing," the others just watched that debacle wuth stone-faced indifference.  Cracked me up.  Usually, the observers are basket cases for everyone.  Karishma?  Not so much.

Hell, Karishma already had more ham going for the cameras than Christmas dinner before Peachy even got so much as halfway into his “Loved Ones Visit” monologue; her face looked like a well-wrung-out dishrag - and was about as dry.  I guess sometimes you can’t work up a tear no matter how hard you try..... 😛 

1 hour ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

And I'm still pissed that Lauren and her theatrics outlasted Elaine.

FWIW I was surprised Elaine lasted as long as she did - for the simple reason her ball appeared to be left of center on the beam.

Another thing, though: when Peachy was announcing the official start of the comp, he made the statement “Everybody’s ball is on the paint strip”, or something to that effect - and the hell they were.  Some were on the paint strip, some were well over it - they were all over the place.  But given the single-foot-on-the-block stance, I expect balance/center of balance played more of a role in this comp than brute physical strength.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Personally I thought Dean’s move was moderately smart gameplay for Dean’s personal game.  Way to thin out the competition for goatiest goat, Dean!

It's only smart game play if Dean is playing for runner-up. Assuming he actually wants to win a million dollars he would be far better off with Noura, Karishma and Elaine. I can't see any path for him to win other than sitting between Noura and Karishma in the final three. If he thinks he has a better shot against Tommy or Lauren he's an idiot. This was his one and only shot at taking control of the game and voting out four people who have much better chances to win the game than he does.

If he's playing to be the goat he's shooting for 3rd place at best.

Edited December 5, 2019 by iMonrey

[HurricaneVal]

6 hours ago, RescueMom said:

Unpopular opinion, but I like the loved ones visits. I like to see the people who show up from the players' regular lives, and I especially like how hurt feelings or picking wrong can shake up the game.

I, too, always like the loved ones visits.  They are always so deliciously vindictive.   You want to win so, so badly, but if you win you are automatically screwed in the game.  No matter who you pick to go with you, either ally or enemy, those left at camp will be pissed off at you.  It might be enough to turn an ally into an enemy.  We've certainly seen that! 

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Speaking of Fucking Dean, him and his mom doing the Bachelor Handshake™ was so cringe. 

I literally exclaimed "Oh no they didn't!" when his mom did the Bachelor Handshake™.  AWWWWkward.  At least they didn't kiss on the lips like that one father/son pair from a few seasons ago.

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Also, that fact that her head is easily 3 times the size of her husband's had me rolling.

What has been seen, cannot be unseen.  Sure, Lauren's hair (which I really like, and think is flattering on her) adds a certain apparent diameter to her head, but even discounting her hair, her head is ginormous!  I never noticed that before, and now that was all I could see for the rest of the episode.

4 hours ago, rasalas said:

Did anyone else notice that Lauren's ball had what looked to be a crease on it? It was on the side that was against the wooden frame, so it would have slightly flattened the ball -- making it less likely to roll off. Not implying producer shenanigans here, but I just thought that was weird.

I noticed this as well, and wondered if it contributed to her win.  I don't think it was a fix, it could have just been an anomaly with her ball, or they all had a crease.  I didn't see enough closeups of the other balls to compare.

Did they every follow up with Janet's injury?  It looked really gnarly in that one quick closeup.  That, uh, wasn't her toenail all sticking up was it?  Talk about cringing....

Count me in as one who was touched that Jeff brought Noura's sister with him so she could see the competition better.  That was really nice.  But I think Noura's sister brought Noura a fresh supply of crazy from home.  She had been running out and nearly acting normal, but after getting topped up, she really went full-metal Noura back at camp after the family visit.  I really do wish they'd set a running timer chyron at the bottom of the screen so we could truly appreciate how long and involved it was.  Did she even breathe through all of that, or was she absorbing oxygen and providing it to her bloodstream via her bugged out red eyes?

Team Janet and Elaine all the way because I like them.  I'm OK with a Tommy or Lauren win, they really have been working this game, so you've got to give that to them.  I'm not happy about it, because they're boring.

[enoughcats]

15 hours ago, willco said:

I personally have to at least mute it, it's just too much. 

Not just muting that part of the episode.  

When there's no sound, it's so easy to enjoy the scenery and animal photography.  Then unmute for the description of the challenges, and back to mute and finally closed caption for the vote off when they start talking over each other.  

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If Janet's husband acknowledges that Janet faced obstacles, in a traditionally male dominated field, because she was a woman it is "sexist", and he doesn't that is also "sexist"

I don't have the exact words but I thought he said she achieved great things and didn't let being a woman hold her back.

No one said it would have been sexist if he had simply said Janet had done all sorts of amazing things.  Period.  Why should being a woman have "held her back?"  Are women inherently bad swimmers who lack courage?

Women were only held back from those positions like fireman, police officer, combat soldier, because they weren't allowed to try.  Now those fields are opened and we all saw that most women had no trouble doing them.  Being one of the first women ocean front life guards doesn't mean Janet is the greatest lifeguard ever, or that she overcame "the obstacle of being a woman,"  it just means she was in on those first opportunities.

I'm also tired of the mindset that a woman doing a job that was traditionally held by men is somehow  better than a women who is doing a job traditionally held by women.  A lifeguard is not better than a nurse.  It's sexist to think  that traditional men's jobs are better, require more brains or courage, than traditional women's work.

I remember applying for a position as a bank teller  ( your example of the lowest job ever) and told that women couldn't work in banks because men wouldn't trust women to handle their money. Times changed and I started working in banks, not because I overcame the obstacle of being a woman, but because of affirmative action's and changes in hiring laws.

[kstar821]

Quote

I am extremely athletic but use a cpap. just curious, I think it would be a disqualifier for sure.

Ha!  I wonder stuff like this, too.  I am also very athletic but use a cpap.  I have terrible allergies and enlarged tonsils.  I guess I'd be disqualified right along with you.  😥

Poor Dean.  Poor, pretty Dean.  He really is the cool kid tagalong.

[ByaNose]

Dean may look great but he sucks at challenges. Actually, a lot of them do. I usually expect the six pack ab stud to do a little better but Dean can barely walk without tripping. A six pack abs does not an athlete make.

Edited December 5, 2019 by ByaNose

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, fishcakes said:

If it turns out Reem has been living at the Edge of Extinction for the last year and they put her in this game on Day 39, then I will root for Reem.

😂  I think, in our heart of hearts, some of us have been rooting for Reem all along.

You think Noura had a lot to say?  Well, everyone, wait until you get a load of Reem's tales from being trapped on the EoE.  

Edited December 5, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Tryangle]

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I was thinking the same thing.  They should have picked Noura because she is crazy and vindictive and they needed to convince her she wasn't on the bottom.   There was zero need for Tommy to bring Lauren.  

I am on the fence about whether they also should have taken Dean instead of Dan.  Normally, I would say yes.  But, though Dan is very strategic, he is also a vindictive dick and might have been tempted to flip out of spite.    Also, Dean is such a pathetic lap dog, that they didn't even need to throw him a bone.   

This almost always happens at this challenge at this point in the game. I know there have been one or two castaways who strategized for this and were willing to split their alliance (or give up their spot!) but for whatever reason most players just pick their buddies without a second thought and get other people ticked off.

This would have been a good time for Tommy to have given up his spot to a Noura or Kirishma.

31 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

Did they every follow up with Janet's injury?  It looked really gnarly in that one quick closeup.  That, uh, wasn't her toenail all sticking up was it?  Talk about cringing....

For real. Would hate for the next episode to lead off with Janet having to be medivac'ed. It looked like a pretty big cut.

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

Dan my look great but he sucks at challenges. Actually, a lot of them do. I usually expect the six pack ab stud to do a little better but Dean can barely walk without tripping. A six pack abs does not an athlete make.

I hope/am pretty sure you mean Dean instead of Dan.  And I refuse to even agree that he looks "great", just better than Dan and Tommy at this point.  I still think he looks really weird.  If only he had just been normal and not a total douchenozzle I probably would have fallen for him.

[simplyme]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'd be interested to know what the story is there because it would explain a lot about Dean and why he ruined a perfectly good plan...

Whatever trauma he went through in school obviously played a part in that. I'll refrain from any further speculation but you can probably guess where I'd be going with this.

Yeah. Dean's high school "trauma" was that he chose to go to a school known for basketball and had to practice, and he cried regularly because he couldn't have a regular teenage life of parties like he saw on TV shows like The OC. Even though it was his choice and no one who isn't rich as hell and spoiled with questionable parenting actually has a life like that. Poor guy.

I'm not kidding, either. From https://parade.com/922157/mikebloom/survivor-season-39-dean-kowalski/:

Quote

When you’re at your lowest low, what’s one memory you’ll pull from to boost your spirits?
When it comes to hard work, I come back to my sophomore or junior year of high school. This is right when I decided to leave all my childhood friends behind to go to this school just to play basketball. I was the smallest kids on the whole team, always fighting for playing time. I made varsity my junior year, probably seventh or eighth man without much playing time. We’d still have to work out in the morning, running around a park in the New Jersey winter where it wasn’t light until 8:00 AM. We’d go from that into school, put on our uniforms, go to school, and then practice afterward. We didn’t see the sun all day.

There I was, in this mist of puberty and development. I was watching Laguna Beach and The O.C. at the time. As corny as it was, all I thought was, “I want to be a normal high school student. I want to ask some beautiful girl to prom and hang out at house parties.” Here I was running in the middle of the winter in pitch black, getting ready for a basketball team I didn’t really play on. Those were dark days. I came home crying to my mom, and she was like, “Do you want to transfer?” But I made it through, and I don’t regret it. It made me a better person.

I may have finally found a reason I regret quitting those violin lessons I hated in elementary school. Surely Dean needs me to play for him now... *eyeroll* (Somehow the trombone I took up instead just isn't the same...)

edit: To be fair, I'm being overly harsh here. It's not really unusual that a teenager was emotional (thanks, hormones) or wanted a different life portrayed by the media. He's probably to be commended for sticking it out... but honestly, acting like it was soooo hard annoys me. If he was really traumatized, then they should have removed him from the school (and also had him stop watching certain shows).

Edited December 5, 2019 by simplyme

[Rachel RSL]

32 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Being one of the first women ocean front life guards doesn't mean Janet is the greatest lifeguard ever, or that she overcame "the obstacle of being a woman,"  it just means she was in on those first opportunities.

I'm pretty sure it does mean she overcame the obstacle of being a woman but he meant it in an admirable way, not a demeaning way.  The entire world is still an Old Boys Club and the fact that Janet was the first just proves that there were barriers in place and she broke through those barriers.  Still to this day, women are held back from advancing as a lot more than firemen, police officers, and combat soldiers. Even if laws have been changed, mindsets have not. The Old Boys Club is very very much alive and well.

11 minutes ago, simplyme said:

Yeah. Dean's high school "trauma" was that he chose to go to a school known for basketball and had to practice, and he cried regularly because he couldn't have a regular teenage life of parties like he saw on TV shows like The OC. Even though it was his choice and no one who isn't rich as hell and spoiled with questionable parenting actually has a life like that. Poor guy.

That interview was hilarious!   So his big trauma that caused him to come home crying to his mommy every day was that he had to practice with the rest of his team instead of partying?  Man, this guy just becomes more of a prize every day.  Get in line, ladies. He's mine!

Edited December 5, 2019 by Rachel RSL

[Special K]

5 minutes ago, simplyme said:

Yeah. Dean's high school "trauma" was that he chose to go to a school known for basketball and had to practice, and he cried regularly because he couldn't have a regular teenage life of parties like he saw on TV shows like The OC.

I'm guessing he hoped to make the NBA? 

OMG, I just looked him up -- he's from Westfield, NJ.  A rich town we used to play in sports.  Ugh I kind of hate him even more.  Sounds like he opted to go to a Catholic school (since he says they wore uniforms during the school day?). 

Anyway, BFD -- I hated high school in suburban NJ, too.  🙂  

[ljenkins782]

3 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I'm disappointed in Janet even though I know she doesn't have all the information we have about Dan and she's doing what she has to in order to stay in the game, but DAMN. I wish we could get one confessional from her about Dan like the one Sandra gave about Russell where she says she doesn't want to work with him but she's stuck with it. Just something so my skin doesn't crawl every time I see her being friendly with him.

Yeah, I have to remember that Janet doesn't have all the information and based on how the girls all basically acted like she was crazy for even bringing up the Dan issues, I can understand why she's not shunning him. She liked him before that incident and from what the other girls said, he acts better when she's around, so she didn't have the full scope of info. He's the only person there who's similar in age to her, so maybe they related on that level. 

Quote

Now that we've seen more of how on-the-outs Karishma has been all season, I think it's pretty shitty that TPTB aired that bit where she was talking about her husband being basically just a roommate. Whether she meant it at the time or was just trying to get sympathy from the others, it never should have been shown. It didn't affect the game at all, but it could affect her marriage. It's not like fucking Dan the Groper, whose wife should be filing for divorce right this second; his conduct in the game hurt other people in the game and so it was relevant and should have been aired. Karishma's misguided talk affected no one but herself and her husband, who in this situation, is an innocent bystander.

Could not agree more on this one. She didn't win the game, there was no big revelation about her deciding to change her life and based on her reaction to the loved ones' visit, she's doubling down the commitment, so why air that very personal, hurtful discussion?

My feeling about Karishma is that she does have those doubts and feelings about the marriage, but 30 days of living with strangers who she clearly did not click with even a little bit made her want to run back to the safety of what's familiar. Sometimes you think you could do better/made a mistake and then life smacks you in the chops and you retreat to what's safe and easy.

Quote

They do a mental health screening, but I think the standards have gotten a lot looser since the early seasons. They want drama, so if someone is delusional like Coach or has an anger management problem like Brandon, then they'll cross their fingers and look away. In any case, I don't think Noura is mentally ill, just hyper and annoying and lacking all social skills.

Yeah, I don't think she's mentally ill, her issues seem to be much more in the social realm. She's not self-aware (or is, but can't do anything useful with what she knows about herself) and really cannot read a room.

The people who ARE crazy are the people who let her slip through that disaster of a tribal council and voted out the utterly powerless Karishma instead. Karishma lasted 20 seconds in a challenge after giving up the option to eat a big breakfast. I know for me, the idea that I'd made that choice would have made me fight all the harder, but she physically couldn't do it, whereas Noura has shown incredible stamina in these endurance challenges.

So to recap, the person who blew up EVERYONE's spot at TC, can't be trusted to stick to a plan, does whatever strikes her mind at any moment, AND who could quite possibly do an immunity run to the end was more of an imminent threat than the girl who can't win a challenge, has no allies, and has almost no chance to convince anyone to vote for her at the end? Alrighty then...

Quote

What I did not find to be genuine was Karishma's Razzie-worthy performance during the loved one visit.  The only thing worse than a sad sack, is a sad sack playing up their sad sackness for the cameras.  Going back to the early episodes, I can totally see now why they left her lying face down in the sand after her life-threatening papercut or whatever it was and didn't bother checking on her lol.

Yeah, when they aired that original scene of her acting like she'd been disemboweled and no one, including production (who will break the wall in dire medical situations, I assume) was even looking at her, we didn't have enough background on Karishma yet to view it in context, but I have no trouble believing that she was a drama queen often enough that they learned to tune her out.

I guess I'm rooting for either Janet or Elaine at this point. Janet is my sentimental fave and it'd be nice to have a female winner over 40-something (I think Tina Wesson was only 40 when she won, though she looked far older and Denise was only 40 or so), but I feel like Elaine might be making more game moves.

Elaine's edit out of the gate seem significant and then she faded into the background for a long time and now she's re-emerging in the show. Janet came briefly into the spotlight during the Dan episode and is now fading back into the background, so I can't judge them head to head. 

I'd just rather either of them over anyone else left on the beach. If Dean or Tommy (and especially Dan) win, it'll be the second season in a row with a huge bummer ending. The only thing that gives me hope regarding a possible Dan win is that I don't think they would have edited that one particular episode together the way they did and wouldn't have gone so far in making him look bad if he'd actually won. I feel like they would have stitched around the problematic areas to try to salvage some sort of likability, but they didn't, so I can hope that means he loses.

[ByaNose]

38 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I hope/am pretty sure you mean Dean instead of Dan.  And I refuse to even agree that he looks "great", just better than Dan and Tommy at this point.  I still think he looks really weird.  If only he had just been normal and not a total douchenozzle I probably would have fallen for him.

Yup! I corrected it up top. I certainly meant Dean. I dropped my e. LOL!!!

Edited December 5, 2019 by ByaNose

[Ms Blue Jay]

49 minutes ago, simplyme said:

edit: To be fair, I'm being overly harsh here. It's not really unusual that a teenager was emotional (thanks, hormones) or wanted a different life portrayed by the media. He's probably to be commended for sticking it out... but honestly, acting like it was soooo hard annoys me. If he was really traumatized, then they should have removed him from the school (and also had him stop watching certain shows).

No you're not!!  I can't believe this is the "trauma" Dean went through!  And he cried every night about this and his mom had to comfort him?  What in God's name!  I hate Deanie the weenie even more now!  Thank you for this horrible info.

40 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

That interview was hilarious!   So his big trauma that caused him to come home crying to his mommy every day was that he had to practice with the rest of his team instead of partying?  Man, this guy just becomes more of a prize every day.  Get in line, ladies. He's mine!

And he CHOSE this life too.  Oh my god.  It's making me so angry

Edited December 5, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[JudyObscure]

15 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

I corrected it up top. I certainly meant Dean. I dropped my e. LOL!!!

No worries.  Not one person read, "Dan looks great," and didn't immediately know it was a typo.

[iMonrey]

Quote

They do a mental health screening, but I think the standards have gotten a lot looser since the early seasons. They want drama, so if someone is delusional like Coach or has an anger management problem like Brandon, then they'll cross their fingers and look away.

39 seasons in, and people are still under the baffling impression there's some sort of mental health screening for reality shows like this. 39 seasons of contestants the likes of which you'd expect to find wandering the mental ward and people still think they do mental health screenings. Well, if they do, it's to keep the sane people out.

There are auditions and interviews a plenty, to be sure, before these people make the final cut. But the idea that some sort of mental health professional sits in on these interviews is laughable at this point. I know a couple of Hantzes that would never have made the cut.

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

6 hours ago, Hpmec said:

I assume the contestant screening process includes some degree of health to ascertain weather or not a player would be able to survive the rigors of the game. Shouldn't mental health factor in? Noura is either a very convincing actress or a seriously ill individual. I cannot fathom how she made the contestant cut, and it is very uncomfortable watching her unhinged ramblings.

And Karishma is most definitely a useless pain in the ass, but that quality would make her the goatiest of goats. Stupid move. And the producers, who no doubt paid big bucks to lure Rob and Sandra back, wasted their money by giving them so little to do they've become non-entities. Just a lot of stupidity in the air ths season. 

Well here is the thing, I am not on any meds other than OTC allergy pills, but are there medications out there that if taken on an empty stomach could have caused her to go BSC ?  Not sure if this even sounds plausible now that I am re-reading it but she was kinda a little bonkers from the start, but to me seems like it got worse as time and lack of food went on

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

1 hour ago, HurricaneVal said:

What has been seen, cannot be unseen.  Sure, Lauren's hair (which I really like, and think is flattering on her) adds a certain apparent diameter to her head, but even discounting her hair, her head is ginormous!  I never noticed that before, and now that was all I could see for the rest of the episode.

I noticed the size of her head compared to her hubs and it was huge, like he has Ryan Seacrest syndrome. 

Karishma-personal injury attorney - probably tells her clients to turn on or fake the waterworks to the judge/jury to garner more money for settlement, she just finally had a chance to use it when hers came out on the beach.

[Lamima]

2 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

I, too, always like the loved ones visits.  They are always so deliciously vindictive.   You want to win so, so badly, but if you win you are automatically screwed in the game.  No matter who you pick to go with you, either ally or enemy, those left at camp will be pissed off at you.  It might be enough to turn an ally into an enemy.  We've certainly seen that! 

I literally exclaimed "Oh no they didn't!" when his mom did the Bachelor Handshake™.  AWWWWkward.  At least they didn't kiss on the lips like that one father/son pair from a few seasons ago.

What has been seen, cannot be unseen.  Sure, Lauren's hair (which I really like, and think is flattering on her) adds a certain apparent diameter to her head, but even discounting her hair, her head is ginormous!  I never noticed that before, and now that was all I could see for the rest of the episode.

I noticed this as well, and wondered if it contributed to her win.  I don't think it was a fix, it could have just been an anomaly with her ball, or they all had a crease.  I didn't see enough closeups of the other balls to compare.

Did they every follow up with Janet's injury?  It looked really gnarly in that one quick closeup.  That, uh, wasn't her toenail all sticking up was it?  Talk about cringing....

Count me in as one who was touched that Jeff brought Noura's sister with him so she could see the competition better.  That was really nice.  But I think Noura's sister brought Noura a fresh supply of crazy from home.  She had been running out and nearly acting normal, but after getting topped up, she really went full-metal Noura back at camp after the family visit.  I really do wish they'd set a running timer chyron at the bottom of the screen so we could truly appreciate how long and involved it was.  Did she even breathe through all of that, or was she absorbing oxygen and providing it to her bloodstream via her bugged out red eyes?

Team Janet and Elaine all the way because I like them.  I'm OK with a Tommy or Lauren win, they really have been working this game, so you've got to give that to them.  I'm not happy about it, because they're boring.

Dean and his mom's embrace...while he was in his undies....barf!

Lauren's head size. I noticed that too when she was with her hubby. Her face looked ginormous! 

[Nashville]

44 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't have the exact words but I thought he said she achieved great things and didn't let being a woman hold her back.

No one said it would have been sexist if he had simply said Janet had done all sorts of amazing things.  Period.  Why should being a woman have "held her back?"  Are women inherently bad swimmers who lack courage?

Women were only held back from those positions like fireman, police officer, combat soldier, because they weren't allowed to try.  Now those fields are opened and we all saw that most women had no trouble doing them.  Being one of the first women ocean front life guards doesn't mean Janet is the greatest lifeguard ever, or that she overcame "the obstacle of being a woman,"  it just means she was in on those first opportunities.

Not necessarily; it may also mean Janet was one of those first women who had to fight to create those opportunities in the first place.  Just because so many of those obstacles have been reduced or obliterated now doesn’t mean those obstacles didn’t exist back in the ‘70s.  Janet is 59 now, so her first forays into the workplace (and the arena of male-dominated fields) would have probably started somewhere around 1976 or 1978 - and I guarantee you institutional pushback against the advancement of women into traditionally male-dominated fields was still an extremely real thing back then.  

44 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm also tired of the mindset that a woman doing a job that was traditionally held by men is somehow  better than a women who is doing a job traditionally held by women.  A lifeguard is not better than a nurse.  It's sexist to think  that traditional men's jobs are better, require more brains or courage, than traditional women's work.

The issue isn’t the job itself per se; it’s having equal access to the job, which is a very different thing.  

4 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

Could not agree more on this one. [Karishma] didn't win the game, there was no big revelation about her deciding to change her life and based on her reaction to the loved ones' visit, she's doubling down the commitment, so why air that very personal, hurtful discussion?

Well... Survivor is first, foremost and always a “reality” TV show, so I expect TPTB chose to air it because Karishma chose to air it - in a discussion with multiple tribal members, in the middle of a reality TV set (aka camp), with cameras pointed at her and recording everything.  Not much of an “expectation of privacy” argument to be made in THAT context.

[violet and green]

Imagine if those Lairo asshats hadn't voted out Tom and Vince. Janet would have had an alternate bonding buddy to skeevy Dan in Tom, and Elaine would be having fun... instead of having to hang on by her fingernails while acting casual.

This season is going down in flames after such a promising start.

Only one thing can save it! Elaine going on an epic Idol and Immunity run!

[blackwing]

7 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Your mileage may vary. I personally have empathy for someone with a dying parent, regardless of circumstances, and understand why they would be emotional and cry at a family visit, because I feel that's the very basis of humanity. Everyone copes in their own way with death and loss. And he hadn't won yet. So, in that moment, I had empathy for him.

I have less empathy for other contestants who are boo-hooing the mere sight of their family for "I haven't seen you in 30 -whatever days" reasons. I actually have the least amount of empathy for people who are running the game and boo-hoo at seeing their family.

If you're on the outs with no one else to trust, I get it. If you're cruising in the catbird seat ... settle down, Beavis.

6 hours ago, Drogo said:

The votes were also cast for the winner prior to her passing, IIRC, so he didn't exploit her death for votes.  

I have a lot of empathy for anyone with a dying parent.  But I had zero empathy for Adam because instead of choosing to be with his mom (like I said, he easily could have deferred until the next season), he chose to be thousands of miles away and proceeded to constantly snot cry about her to the camera in his confessionals.

While it’s true that the votes were cast before she died, in his final tribal speech he snot cried about how she was dying of cancer.  So he absolutely exploited the fact that she was dying.  It contributed to why he won by unanimous vote.  He probably would have won anyways, but the immediate empathy for him was palpably visible.  
 

I’m so glad they got rid of Karishma because I could easily see her get taken to final three as a goat, be up against people who backstabbed the jury, sob about her journey and missing her husband and realizing she was taking him for granted, and getting rewarded since the jury hated the others.  
 

I unabashedly now love Noura.  Yes she’s a bit unhinged, but I found it incredibly awesome how she stood up and called people out and exposed all the secrets.  She’s probably doomed next round, but really, I hope she sticks around.  She’s entertaining and completely nonthreatening.  No one would ever vote for her to win, she doesn’t have a good game or story.

[watch2much]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

No you're not!!  I can't believe this is the "trauma" Dean went through!  And he cried every night about this and his mom had to comfort him?  What in God's name!  I hate Deanie the weenie even more now!  Thank you for this horrible info.

And he CHOSE this life too.  Oh my god.  It's making me so angry

not to mention playing basketball got him admitted to an Ivy League school--Columbia.

[meep.meep]

3 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

So to recap, the person who blew up EVERYONE's spot at TC, can't be trusted to stick to a plan, does whatever strikes her mind at any moment, AND who could quite possibly do an immunity run to the end was more of an imminent threat than the girl who can't win a challenge, has no allies, and has almost no chance to convince anyone to vote for her at the end? Alrighty then...

This.  Maybe they view her as Super Goat after that performance.

I felt particularly sorry for Elaine who kinda had to play her idol after all that.

[ljenkins782]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Well... Survivor is first, foremost and always a “reality” TV show, so I expect TPTB chose to air it because Karishma chose to air it - in a discussion with multiple tribal members, in the middle of a reality TV set (aka camp), with cameras pointed at her and recording everything.  Not much of an “expectation of privacy” argument to be made in THAT context.

I agree that there’s no expectation of privacy and she shouldn’t have shared it to begin with, but there are hundreds of hours of footage and there was no real narrative value to it (ie, it wasn’t part of an overarching storyline, didn’t play a role in how she was viewed, etc.) so it just seems cruel to air that particular conversation.

[simplyme]

3 hours ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

Well here is the thing, I am not on any meds other than OTC allergy pills, but are there medications out there that if taken on an empty stomach could have caused her to go BSC ?  Not sure if this even sounds plausible now that I am re-reading it but she was kinda a little bonkers from the start, but to me seems like it got worse as time and lack of food went on

Noura isn't batshit crazy. She's quirky. She possibly has some attention deficit issues. She's probably annoying as hell to live with. But as someone who used to be a public librarian, she doesn't even register on my radar as having serious mental health issues based on what we've been shown.

Some people are just strange or talk a lot or both. I mean, there are people out there who firmly believe the Earth is flat or that humans coexisted with dinosaurs. They will talk you to death about it. They aren't mentally ill. (I'm sure there are mentally ill people with those beliefs, but believing one thing that is scientifically incorrect is not a sign of mental illness.) They just for some reason have an ardent belief that is frustrating to deal with. Don't get me started on people who want actual photos of dinosaurs, or better yet, God. sigh.

[blondiek237]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't have the exact words but I thought he said she achieved great things and didn't let being a woman hold her back.

No one said it would have been sexist if he had simply said Janet had done all sorts of amazing things.  Period.  Why should being a woman have "held her back?"  Are women inherently bad swimmers who lack courage?

Women were only held back from those positions like fireman, police officer, combat soldier, because they weren't allowed to try.  Now those fields are opened and we all saw that most women had no trouble doing them.  Being one of the first women ocean front life guards doesn't mean Janet is the greatest lifeguard ever, or that she overcame "the obstacle of being a woman,"  it just means she was in on those first opportunities.

I'm also tired of the mindset that a woman doing a job that was traditionally held by men is somehow  better than a women who is doing a job traditionally held by women.  A lifeguard is not better than a nurse.  It's sexist to think  that traditional men's jobs are better, require more brains or courage, than traditional women's work.

I remember applying for a position as a bank teller  ( your example of the lowest job ever) and told that women couldn't work in banks because men wouldn't trust women to handle their money. Times changed and I started working in banks, not because I overcame the obstacle of being a woman, but because of affirmative action's and changes in hiring laws.

The laws did change, but the first few women working in those fields had to deal with co-workers that were not happy they were there.