Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[Gam2]

On another note, I chuckle every time I see Michael and Willow hug. They look like brother and sister rather than lovers.

[perkie1968]

1 hour ago, TeeVee329 said:

What is this I'm reading on Twitter that today implied that Esme is Ryan and FELICIA's daughter?!?!

and

19 minutes ago, Daisy said:

wait? Felicia is Esme's mom?

The show was heavily implying that today.  Esme gets all up in ryan's face and he says something like, 'you're just like you're mother, tough'.    Then he has a flashback of Felicia attacking him with a knife.  Follow that with a scene of Felicia and Nina talking about kids and what not.  It was a heavy handed anvil, but one that clearly looked like they're going down that path.  

 

The stuff between Ryan and Felicia (including the flashback scene they showed today) was in late 1992/early 1993, so are they going to tell us that Felicia gave birth and gave up Esme and that Esme is actually 30 years old??????   

Edited May 12, 2022 by perkie1968

[ffwbe]

2 minutes ago, Gam2 said:

On another note, I chuckle every time I see Michael and Willow hug. They look like brother and sister rather than lovers.

That tracks because Michael and Nelle came off like twins. I recall this one couple promo they were a part of where they were trying to pull of sexy but definitely looked like brother and sister 

[YaddaYadda]

3 minutes ago, Gam2 said:

On another note, I chuckle every time I see Michael and Willow hug. They look like brother and sister rather than lovers.

I'm sure we can find a connection if we look hard enough. Michael has already slept with Willow's sisters. 

[Daisy]

19 minutes ago, Blackie said:

To me that was OOC and bad writing for some plot point involving Britt finding he true love(?) Spencer had no reason to talk to Britt like that, he just had to say "mind your own business" or "I'll talk to Esme about it " or something. I found the writing for that scene very bad.

that pissed me off. No way he would have gone off like that on Britt. and 9x10 He would have said, that he'd let her know when he gets more details.. he wouldn't have torpedo'ed that relationship like that

[PatsyandEddie]

10 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I'm sure we can find a connection if we look hard enough. Michael has already slept with Willow's sisters. 

🤮

[CharethCutestory]

1 minute ago, Gam2 said:

On another note, I chuckle every time I see Michael and Willow hug. They look like brother and sister rather than lovers.

They're basically the same exact character and equally insufferable at this point. The only times I've seen even a hint of chemistry with Michael is when the woman isn't the typical good girl archetype. Not a psycho like Nelle, but has a bit of an edge to her because he has ZERO. I've seen this with Lexi Ainsworth and Amanda Setton, both impossible options. Also, oddly enough, I've seen it with KeMo. *Ducks* I remember they had a scene after Jonah died and Michael was cleaning out the nursery and Sam came by. Just one of those subtle things. I thought, now that'd be soapy and scandalous. So this show will never go there. 

3 minutes ago, Daisy said:

that pissed me off. No way he would have gone off like that on Britt. and 9x10 He would have said, that he'd let her know when he gets more details.. he wouldn't have torpedo'ed that relationship like that

KT really conveyed how hurtful what he said was. Below the belt, ridiculously mean. He should have lunch with Diane. I love that she told the little turd off and I hope she really lets him have it when he inevitably comes to her again begging for her help.

[Cheetara1986]

I kind of get Spencer going off, you can see in his face that he figured out that Trina was drugged abd probably blames himself for her getting into that horrible ordeal in the first place

Plus, I cant really bug out on him when he is basicslly doing better police work then the actual police that are suppose to be working on the case. 

[Auntie Velvet]

35 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

The stuff between Ryan and Felicia (including the flashback scene they showed today) was in late 1992/early 1993, so are they going to tell us that Felicia gave birth and gave up Esme and that Esme is actually 30 years old??????   

I guess if it really was an egg-stealing thing the baby could have been conceived at any time. But I am still rooting for a misdirection!

It would be wild if Ryan isn't cured at all, but instead Esme is having delusions that she's talking to him. But then again, it would be a stretch that she's the one "remembering" the fight with Felicia.

[jsbt]

When the hell could Felicia even have had the time to give birth to Ryan's daughter? Come on now. The window of time from when she left (with Frisco, right?) to when she came back single in '92 was not that long.

[Gam2]

These writers mess with us all of the time but if they even try to convince us that Esme is Felicia’s daughter, I am finally done with this absolute nonsense.

[Pingaponga]

How is it that all of these people are on to Esme being untrustworthy, and not one of them have thought to investigate her and her background? Not Sonny, not Ava, not Laura, not Curtis...none of these people who have connections with people who could do a proper investigation?

[ciarra]

Felicia had a baby every time she went to Texas to look after Mariah. 

[TeeVee329]

Wow, Spencer really was shitty to Britt, he could have put Britt off questioning him about the pill and Esme without leveling her and basically disavowing their bond, which only hurt more after the super cute scene of her making him say "pweaty pwease Britt!" and recording it.  I hope he apologizes to her at some point when all the Esme shit comes out.

And then Britt had to deal with Carly.  Isn't it pretty shitty of Carly to put Britt in this position, even on the fringe, given Nina is Britt's cousin?  And Carly doesn't know where to get a DNA test, really?  She's been the leading lady in a soap city for too many years not to know that.

I don't like the hint about Esme being Felicia's, it really smells of what they did with LWB/FS, Faison, and Anna.  If they needed Esme to have a mother in town - which they don't really, Ryan is a legacy tie enough - I think making it Lucy would have been more interesting.  Say she slept with Ryan thinking he was Kevin at some point, was too ashamed when she found out and had the kid adopted, etc.  Hell, blame it on the magic candles!

Edited May 12, 2022 by TeeVee329

[ouinason]

Felicia straight up disappeared for YEARS at a time, I could buy Ryan in his DVX time getting ahold of her.  I don't like it, but I could buy the timing of it.

 

[statsgirl]

Today was the Wimmiz Be Crazy show. Not only is Liz hallucinating being a poltergeist, Felicia apparently had a baby she has no awareness of. Carly, Willow and Esme were just their regular crazy.

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

I hate these people. I legit hate these people so much.

 anyone in that situation would think that, especially when you consider NINA'S last actions towards her daughter was helping THEM take NELLE'S SON AWAY FROM HER. (and why? because she thought, even though she was having fondness towards Nelle, that being raised by Michael was the best thing for that little pimple).

I agree with your whole post but especially these parts. I thought I was going to blow a blood vessel when they were on their "Nina is a horrible person" rant, as if Michael and Carly are saints. And then to top it off, after Carly breaks into Willow's home, instead of getting angry Willow gives her a key to make it easier next time.

One of the requirements for psychopathy is knowing that someone is hurting and not caring at all.  In my manual, there's a picture of Carly beside it.

WTH is wrong with Drew? He's an even bigger Carly propper than Jason was. I wouldn't be on him telling anyone that Willow is Nina's daughter even when the results come back if Carly doesn't want to.

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I know that Michael has no idea that Nina might be Willow's mother, but you know if the Nelle apple didn't fall far from that rotten (according to Michael) Nina tree, then what makes him think that his beloved Willow who has also gone through a shit ton of stuff won't go bonkers one day.

Willow, who was dragged from ashram to commune? Whose father was killed by Shiloh? Who was given up to be raped? Who gave up her baby and then realized that he had died?

Nah, she'll be okay, she's got Michael.

1 hour ago, Cheetara1986 said:

Plus, I cant really bug out on him when he is basicslly doing better police work then the actual police that are suppose to be working on the case. 

I guess they're too busy not getting DNA from Willow. Still, not cool Spencer.

[Daisy]

5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

WTH is wrong with Drew? He's an even bigger Carly propper than Jason was. I wouldn't be on him telling anyone that Willow is Nina's daughter even when the results come back if Carly doesn't want to.

Drew is so dead to me. Hes all questioning Carly, and Carly is flashing this grin of "Ill do the right thing." yeah - for her which is not saying anything to anyone. How can he be that stupid? Like forget what she is going to do, what are you going to do? You now have knowledge that Nina might be the mother of Willow. You know Carly can't be trusted to do the right thing if her life depended on it. 
 

Drew who was kept away from Scout for "2" years (I dunno how long he was really gone from the show) and bemoans missing all this time with Scout, now has knowledge that Nina - who had her babies stolen away from her at birth has no sense of compassion towards her at all? and is basically allowing Carly to do what she did the last time, which is basically NOT tell Nina information she has the right to know, while in the same breath continues to bemoan how Nina ruined her life and is now with her husband that Carly threw away.  because that was Carly's indignation. that Nina should have said something right away facts be damned. But now Carly [and Drew] are hiding it away because we "have to be sure, we need to protect Willow." 

and the frustrating thing is when this comes out. not one person is going to lambast Carly and Drew for this, except for Nina and everyone will basically be "Well you should be happy because you know at least." 

[gp1999]

On 5/11/2022 at 1:57 PM, Ambrosefolly said:

Esme can be a conniving, evil bitch and it is still wrong for Sonny to take her against her will to talk with her. Both things can be true. That is the thing about this show for the last 20 odd years: if the person is bad, Sonny has carte blanche to do what he wants to them. 

Even though Nik kind of aggressively grabbed his shoulders, Sonny grabbing and twisting back Nik's arm was still out of line. Nik should have charges filed against him, if only to stop Sonny from manhandling people. I still remember that time Sonny chocked Edward, an old man, with a tie because Edward yelled at him for basically being a groomer (which he is) and nothing happened to Sonny. 

That's what happpens when you mess with Sonny. Hopefully Nik learned his lesson this time and won't mess with the godfather again 😎

[jacourt]

Logic be damned

[ouinason]

logic, law, decency...

[racked]

3 hours ago, Cheetara1986 said:

I kind of get Spencer going off, you can see in his face that he figured out that Trina was drugged abd probably blames himself for her getting into that horrible ordeal in the first place

Plus, I cant really bug out on him when he is basicslly doing better police work then the actual police that are suppose to be working on the case. 

I genuinely forgot that the police should even be investigating this. They truly straight up gave up, zero interest in even trying to find out what happened when the defendant is their longtime colleague’s daughter. Ridiculous. 

Man if Esme is secretly 30 years old I am impressed by her on many levels! But I hope Felicia is a misdirect. 

[Cheyanne11]

Hey Willow, did you notice how quickly Michael was ready to turn on you when he thought you might want him to compromise (SUCH A DIRTY WORD!) with Sonny and Nina?  Welcome to your future, you idiot.

Also, what the hell with Millow relaying how dare Nina be in the cemetery when they were going--and Carly immediately screeching "SHE WAS AT JONAH'S GRAVE?" as if that's the only reason anyone could be in the cemetery.  Then later, she has the balls to tell Drew he was "defending Nina" when he literally only pointed out that she is, yes, Wiley's grandmother and that mental illness runs on that side of the family.  Again, Willow girl, you in trouble when the truth comes out.

[jsbt]

What!! When was Ryan with the DVX?

[Artsda]

Felicia and Mac with this baby nonsense. She's like 60 years old. I guess the baby could be a girl, Felicia. Since Ryan had the flashback. 

Drew was right to point out if Nina is crazy and Nelle crazy then year Wiley is crazy. 

Spencer was a rude ass to Britt who he went to for help. 

Not sure what to think of Elizabeth. I thought it was DID. 

[TeeVee329]

22 minutes ago, jsbt said:

What!! When was Ryan with the DVX?

That's how they explained Ryan being undead, that instead of dying in that fire or whatever, the DVX scooped him up and had him doing wetwork for them for years.

[Daisy]

DVX?

[DanaK]

Esme calling Ryan Dad or Daddy in today’s episode wasn’t nearly as creepy like before so I’m more willing to believe he’s indeed her bio dad at this point. I do wonder if she really knew her bio parents or if they were just people who took care of her and she didn’t know the difference and Ryan killed them so they wouldn’t tell Esme the truth. Or has she just been lying about her bio parents knowing full well Ryan is her bio dad? Or does she think Ryan is her step father or something and not her bio dad?

[tessaray]

14 minutes ago, Daisy said:

DVX?

The bad guys spy group, opposite of the WSB. 

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

What!! When was Ryan with the DVX?

DVX saved Ryan and wanted to use him especially with whatever that twin project was for Anna/Alex, Jason/Drew

[ouinason]

I love the fact that Ryan was just too crazy pants for even the DVX to put up with.  Faison, fine, but Chamberlan, oh he's too much.

[FilmTVGeek80]

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

Drew is so dead to me. Hes all questioning Carly, and Carly is flashing this grin of "Ill do the right thing." yeah - for her which is not saying anything to anyone. How can he be that stupid? Like forget what she is going to do, what are you going to do? You now have knowledge that Nina might be the mother of Willow. You know Carly can't be trusted to do the right thing if her life depended on it. 

He has no bligation to tell Nina anything right now, and we don't know what he'll do in the future if Willow's connection to Nina is confirmed. Carly does have a point that the story is crazy, so I can see waiting until their is confirmation.

[Ambrosefolly]

15 hours ago, gp1999 said:

That's what happpens when you mess with Sonny. Hopefully Nik learned his lesson this time and won't mess with the godfather again 😎

Fuck him. I hope that Nik totally retaliates against Sonny. People need to stop letting him get away with shit. Makes we wish that Helena was still alive. She would taken of care the mobster that had the same name as a gardner that Cassadines used to have. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Ambrosefolly

[ouinason]

10 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

He has no bligation to tell Nina anything right now, and we don't know what he'll do in the future if Willow's connection to Nina is confirmed. Carly does have a point that the story is crazy, so I can see waiting until their is confirmation.

Even for Port Charles it sounds a little ridiculous.  I can see the logic in not telling Willow until there is some kind of proof.  And as for Nina, it would be totally cruel to tell her that she may have a living daughter and then maybe have to yank that away from her again.  Especially after the Sasha and Nelle of it all.

I don't at all give Carly credit for thinking of any of this, but Drew may have.  He's not a sociopath like Carly is.

[Daisy]

15 minutes ago, ouinason said:

I don't at all give Carly credit for thinking of any of this, but Drew may have.  He's not a sociopath like Carly is.

well for me. why i yelled at Drew, is that again - it doesn't have to be now but the whole "what are YOU going to do, Carly," and carly cheeikly saying "i'm going to do the right thing." (yeah right thing for whom) is what set me off. and that's why i said that Drew should have said the right thing to do is that if it comes out positive that Nina is the mother of Willow. we should tell them. not leave it up to Carly at all. 

[ouinason]

I totally agree with that.

[statsgirl]

Drew is an idiot to trust Carly to do anything but what is best for her. It's bad writing because the Carly character very much needs a man who can push back when she does bad things, not someone who lies down so she can wipe her feet on him. That way lies Monster Carly.

44 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

He has no obligation to tell Nina anything right now,

However he does have an obligation to tell the police what he's learned. As @Katy M pointed out, a crime has been committed.

[ouinason]

I'm pretty sure it's outside the statute of limitations so he isn't exactly obligated, though I still think it would be the right thing to do.  

[statsgirl]

Both Madeleine and Harmony, who committed the crime, are dead. But that doesn't mean that Drew doesn't have an obligation to expose the crime.

Especially since they are trying to make him out to be a good guy.

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

However he does have an obligation to tell the police what he's learned. As @Katy M pointed out, a crime has been committed.

 

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Especially since they are trying to make him out to be a good guy.

Good doesn't mean perfect. There are plenty of good characters on this show who cover up crimes. He doesn't have to reveal anything right now to anyone. Like you said, the perpertrators are dead so what good would it do to reveal this information now, especially since everyone already knows about all of Madeline and Harmony's other crimes. It's not like anyone's walking around thinking these were upstanding citizens. Until they know anything for sure about the story, I don't think Drew has an obligation to the cops or Nina or even Willow just yet.

[Daisy]

As Carly knows the Cops want a DNA sample to collaborate the story, at the very least they are obstructing justice, so yes. Drew does have an obligation to tell the cops what he knows about the crime. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Good doesn't mean perfect.

No, but on this show every day is Opposite Day, where the mob is good and cops are either incompetent or corrupt and sometimes both. Drew might not have an obligation to say anything right this second, but he knows Carly. If/when the DNA sample gets taken and if the results turn out not to be to her liking, what does he think will happen?

[Daisy]

43 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

what does he think will happen?

that she'll do the right thing. she said so after all.

[Blackie]

9 hours ago, racked said:

I genuinely forgot that the police should even be investigating this. They truly straight up gave up, zero interest in even trying to find out what happened when the defendant is their longtime colleague’s daughter. Ridiculous. 

 

Not only the police but I thought Sonny was going to have people look into it, Didn't he already tell Book or Brick what ever that guys name is to find out about Esme? They have had Spinelli floated around doing nothing.  If they didn't want to have the police actually investigate then they shouldn't have used such a serious crime.

[seasons]

14 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

How is it that all of these people are on to Esme being untrustworthy, and not one of them have thought to investigate her and her background? Not Sonny, not Ava, not Laura, not Curtis...none of these people who have connections with people who could do a proper investigation?

Or computer genius Spinelli? Urgh.

 

Also, unnecessary meanness to the medium from Finn. I know Elizabeth is very vulnerable but she reached out to the medium. I see he's being protective, but he was pretty harsh, even calling her a mean name off the bat, can't remember the name. I like medium lady. 

And why was Liz relieved the dark force is Franco? Did I miss something? Maybe it's Hayden? Ugh I hope not. Not a Hayden fan but I do wish little Violet had a mommy.

[Kiki777]

I still think it’s DID and the dark force is one of Elizabeth’s alters.

[jsbt]

The DVX snatching Ryan up in the '90s actually works for me. IIRC, the Collins twins' father, Victor, had a major background with weird espionage. It seems the show hasn't done much with this retcon though.

The Liz shit is so stupid when it could be legitimately good with a number of changes.

[ouinason]

I know Liz cracked a bit when she was pregnant with Aiden, but this is still so out of left field, and stupid.  DID is known to not be a real thing, but whatever.  It's also supposed to be brought on by specific types of trauma that we have no hints of in Liz's background, and that would seriously piss me off if they tried to do at this point.  Look, I liked Franco, and I was a big Friz fan, but if these writers are seriously trying to say that a husband dying is a reason for an alter or whatever to show themselves when a rape, the bs with Helena and faking her death, Lucky dying, Aiden being kidnapped at birth, and her son dying weren't?  No ma'am.  Not to mention, like I said, she's been treated for mental health before and... not even a hint.  Nope.

Edited May 13, 2022 by ouinason

[TeeVee329]

18 minutes ago, jsbt said:

The DVX snatching Ryan up in the '90s actually works for me. IIRC, the Collins twins' father, Victor, had a major background with weird espionage. It seems the show hasn't done much with this retcon though.

They did reference Victor, IIRC, when Kevin was explaining the retcon to Laura.

[ouinason]

Yes, he did.  Victor worked for the WSB as a code breaker or something like that before he also was put in a mental hospital.  And their mom was abusive and also mentally unwell.  Frankly it's a miracle that Kevin is as stable as he is.

 

All I can suppose (if the Flea thing is actually where they are going with this) is one of a few things.

: Ryan snatched up Felicia and stole some eggs to get a baby off her like creepy ass Stavros Cassidine.  He could have had the surrogate killed after the birth and kept Esme with him as some kind of vanity project for a while before he was busted by his DVX bosses and she was taken away and used as motivation to keep him in line while being raised by appropriately shady adoptive parents.

: Ryan snatched Felicia up and kept her for a chunk of time before someone at the DVX was all "Nah, this is too risky, we can't have Ryan found out alive and too many people will eventually come looking for her" and took her away like a toy from a tantruming toddler.  Remove her memories of being captive, and the accidental baby and stick her back with Mariah who thinks she was working a case and is covering for her absence.  The baby is kept as a stick against Ryan and put with appropriately shady adoptive parents.

: Or they could do an absolute retread of Peter and have Flea know what happened, chosen to give the baby away and then Ryan swooped in.  Maybe he didn't tell her that he was her father until she was older, then he killed her parents and started his mild brain rinse on her.

[jsbt]

I wouldn't mind seeing the explanation of the retcon on YT if anyone knows a vague month or year to search. I remember all the mess with the psychic spies with Victor and Scott's bio-dad on Port Charles (don't ask). It wasn't just a WSB thing, IIRC.

I'd like to point out that the 'guy steals woman's eggs to make a baby with her' thing is not only very tired but still just as rapey as it was when they did it with Valentin and that child he has I still don't acknowledge for Lulu or care about. But Valentin is still a creep, period. It wouldn't shock me if Ryan did it, but it shouldn't be done at all. And it wouldn't shock me if they do it with Felicia and then undo it down the line due to fan revulsion, just like the same tedious thing we went through with Peter and Anna. It's completely unnecessary to do something like this for Esme to be Esme, and she's not going to turn into some rootable heroine nor is it what people want to see from her, when they do want to see her at all.