S04.E09: So Long, Marianne

[Cowgirl]

Rebecca may still be driving in 9 months and forgot that she drove to town. (Though I would be willing to bet she won't be allowed to drive anymore after this.) She demonstrated that she will be somewhere and forget what she is doing (forgetting which movie she was in, and forgetting to buy a cake at the grocery store).  She might not have been able to tell the police that she drove (because she forgot) and couldn't have told them where she left the car.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Cowgirl

[Neurochick]

I think the rift between Kevin and Randall might have something to do with Rebecca's illness.  Rebecca told Randall that she wants to see a doctor.  Maybe Randall is the only person who knows that Rebecca's condition is serious, while both Kate and Kevin are in denial.  

Bravo to the show for confusing me, we saw Rebecca in sweats in the beginning when she was in the kitchen with Randall, we never saw her change to go to the movies.  When Rebecca was wandering around town, I kept wondering why Randall wasn't out looking for her, and then I realized why, he wasn't there.  

As for Kate and Toby.  I thought the text was from some sort of therapy group.  I wasn't bothered by it.  People who are in 12 step programs or group therapy do talk about what's going on in their lives.  Your partner can't be your everything, sometimes a person needs help, needs other people in their lives.

[Violetgoblin6]

On 11/20/2019 at 12:57 PM, Blackie said:

Yes that is what I thought, that is why the story that she would go to a movie that day with so much family coming is dumb.  But maybe the fact that Miguel is ok with that, aka denial, is what causes Randal to try to take over her care and maybe that causes the rift.

My mom doesn't let us out of the house on Thanksgiving or eat anything but snacks after breakfast, lol. I noticed Beth was super chill about everything, probably because she was stressing about Shawna. Okay, I just wrote what sounds like a paradox...

[Starlight925]

29 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

As for Kate and Toby.  I thought the text was from some sort of therapy group.  I wasn't bothered by it.  People who are in 12 step programs or group therapy do talk about what's going on in their lives.  Your partner can't be your everything, sometimes a person needs help, needs other people in their lives.

The text was from a woman in Toby’s CrossFit group.  It shows he was clearly venting about Kate, and this woman was consoling him.  (Lol yes, I’m enough of a dork that I reversed & froze my screen to view the text).
That would be hard for any wife to read. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Sterling

[Higgins]

26 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I think the rift between Kevin and Randall might have something to do with Rebecca's illness.  Rebecca told Randall that she wants to see a doctor.  Maybe Randall is the only person who knows that Rebecca's condition is serious, while both Kate and Kevin are in denial.  

Bravo to the show for confusing me, we saw Rebecca in sweats in the beginning when she was in the kitchen with Randall, we never saw her change to go to the movies.  When Rebecca was wandering around town, I kept wondering why Randall wasn't out looking for her, and then I realized why, he wasn't there.  

As for Kate and Toby.  I thought the text was from some sort of therapy group.  I wasn't bothered by it.  People who are in 12 step programs or group therapy do talk about what's going on in their lives.  Your partner can't be your everything, sometimes a person needs help, needs other people in their lives.

I've known several Crossfit "widowers". Each case either ended in divorce or, in quitting CrossFit. It's also a poor health choice for both cardiac and musculoskeletal reasons. 

[Violetgoblin6]

2 hours ago, AriAu said:

Couple of things:
1. The phone that confused Rebecca left in the grocery store said "Randall" as they showed it sitting at the check-out. So, when Kevin said "we're not speaking" I think he was referring to him or him and Kate and not necessarily Rebecca.

2. We have been known to split up over the course of TGiving Day, but no way Grandma goes off by herself or isn't with some major portion of the crew. I know that it was for the big plot twist, but it was not true to life OR this show.

3. Seriously, where was Miguel at the cabin?

4. The scenes with Nicky and Jack were wonderful and the actors playing Nicky, both Michael Angarano (who was young William Miller in Almost Famous) and particular Griffin Dunne are killing it and I mean killing it. Tough to top Nicky's line about looking like a Viagra ad.

5. Dallas did tie San Francisco 24-24 on Thanksgiving day 1969.

6. Kevin having a pregnant fiance 9 months after Thanksgiving makes me very concerned that it is Cassidy. I really, really thought he was going to leave her be and let her heal with her family, but this timeline is getting awfully condensed. Otherwise, it is someone else we know and I really, really hope he leaves Sophie alone.

Agree wholeheartedly with all.

The 3 Nickies are killing it.  It's eerie, in a good way. I liked, also, that they threw grouchy grandpa with the flask in there. Really fleshes out the Pearson men. 

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, Sterling said:

The text was from a woman in Toby’s CrossFit group.  It shows he was clearly venting about Kate, and this woman was consoling him.  (Lol yes, I’m enough of a dork that I reversed & froze my screen to view the text).
That would be hard for any wife to read. 

Agreed - and especially when he keeps telling her he's okay with everything. Now, I do think Kate is being 'evil' with her attitude towards him losing weight, but Toby is also veering into the smug/annoying category. Either way, he is responsible for telling her how he feels, not playing passive-aggressive games by lying and then venting to someone else about it.

[ShadowFacts]

38 minutes ago, Cowgirl said:

Rebecca may still be driving in 9 months and forgot that she drove to town. (Though I would be willing to bet she won't be allowed to drive anymore after this.) She demonstrated that she will be somewhere and forget what she is doing (forgetting which movie she was in, and forgetting to buy a cake at the grocery store).  She might not have been able to tell the police that she drove (because she forgot) and couldn't have told them where she left the car.

That could be.  But I'm going with the fact she was walking on the sidewalk, and she set out to walk in the fake-out Thanksgiving day scene.

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I recall that when the family was at the cabin before, Jack and Kate walked to the ice cream parlor, so it's not far from civilization.

The cabin could be on the outskirts of Bethlehem and easy enough walking distance to a store, but that's all the more reason someone should have been out looking.  She was gone a long time if she ordered and ate a meal at a sit-down restaurant.  Even if they had their heads totally in the sand about her issues, that was too long and she wasn't answering her phone, time for action.  I overthink . .

[gonzosgirrl]

Man, I forgot how much I loved this song. Thanks to Show, I will never hear it quite the same way again. Not a bad thing, just funny how perspective can change.

[Violetgoblin6]

13 hours ago, HollyGoLitely333 said:

But the 40th birthday get together is at the Poconos cottage, right?  It's pretty chilly up in the Poconos by Labor Day weekend, which is when the B3's birthday is. 

Yes! I went to sleepaway camp in Stroudsburg (Poconos) and summered at Lake Wallanpaupack in 86.  In the dead of summer it's chilly. In late August, during the day, definitely some sweater weather. 

Far out prediction, but maybe Kevin adds on to the cabin in the coming years. Like makes it into a mansion? And that's where we end up 12 or so years from now. Dan said in E magazine online that Kevin's future home is in drivable distance to Beth's studio. 

Hmm.  I seem to remember a show where an old family home was added onto when money came in. I just can't recall now. Sentimental reasons. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Violetgoblin6
Forgot to say...

[Ohiopirate02]

26 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

That could be.  But I'm going with the fact she was walking on the sidewalk, and she set out to walk in the fake-out Thanksgiving day scene.

The cabin could be on the outskirts of Bethlehem and easy enough walking distance to a store, but that's all the more reason someone should have been out looking.  She was gone a long time if she ordered and ate a meal at a sit-down restaurant.  Even if they had their heads totally in the sand about her issues, that was too long and she wasn't answering her phone, time for action.  I overthink . .

I'm sure we will get a scene in the back half of the season from Kevin, Kate and Miguel's perspective.  with Kate driving around looking for her while Kevin was walking around the woods looking for her and Miguel with Kevin's lady love are back at the cabin frantically waiting for her to appear.  They could also have called the police to inform them of her being gone and that is why the police knew where to take Rebecca.  The scenes in this episode were purposefully vague because of the misdirection.  I'm not ready to make any judgments about Kevin, Kate and Miguel just yet.  Shoot, the clerk at the grocery store could have also answered Randall's call and informed him that his mom had left her phone at the store.  

[gonzosgirrl]

48 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm sure we will get a scene in the back half of the season from Kevin, Kate and Miguel's perspective.  with Kate driving around looking for her while Kevin was walking around the woods looking for her and Miguel with Kevin's lady love are back at the cabin frantically waiting for her to appear.  They could also have called the police to inform them of her being gone and that is why the police knew where to take Rebecca.  The scenes in this episode were purposefully vague because of the misdirection.  I'm not ready to make any judgments about Kevin, Kate and Miguel just yet.  Shoot, the clerk at the grocery store could have also answered Randall's call and informed him that his mom had left her phone at the store.  

I think the phone was on silent mode - we saw it light up, but didn't hear it ring. Being where it was the clerk might not even notice it there right away.

It could also be that the police contacted one or all of them to let them know they'd found her and were bringing her home, so they had time to get back to the cabin if they'd been out searching. I wasn't judging, just trying to figure it out.

[Neurochick]

I guess I don't think anything is wrong with venting to someone else about what's going on.  Like I said it happens in 12 step groups all the time.  Sometimes you can't just tell someone what's happening, at least right away.  I'm not from the school of, your partner is your other half.  Like they say, it takes a village.

[Starlight925]

1 hour ago, Higgins said:

I've known several Crossfit "widowers". Each case either ended in divorce or, in quitting CrossFit. It's also a poor health choice for both cardiac and musculoskeletal reasons. 

I know several Crossfit groupies, people who absolutely swear by it and do it daily, for years now.  Personally, it's never appealed to me, but I digress....

I think the reason the writers chose for Toby to go into Crossfit is for the community that Crossfit inspires, the togetherness, the lingo, the "in the know" you have to be to be one of the group.  This not only serves to motivate Crossfitters to keep coming back, but as you pointed out, it can serve to alienate spouses who don't participate.

It's a great choice for the writers to be using, as it accomplishes everything they're trying to accomplish:  Toby is losing weight/toning up at lightning speed, plus he's becoming so quickly insulated with Crossfit that there's almost no way Kate could catch up.  And, because yes, Crossfitters have texting groups and discuss personal lives, the fact that Toby would be venting to his group about his wife is very plausible.

The thing I've found about people who do Crossfit is, they seem to be addicted to it, but unless you join your own "box", you are on the outside when they talk about it.  Which is how Kate feels right now.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Neurochick said:

I guess I don't think anything is wrong with venting to someone else about what's going on.  Like I said it happens in 12 step groups all the time.  Sometimes you can't just tell someone what's happening, at least right away.  I'm not from the school of, your partner is your other half.  Like they say, it takes a village.

True, you can't always tell your partner what's happening. But then if you can't, you also shouldn't blame them for not knowing, especially if you also tell them everything is okay and you're not angry/hurt over their actions. That's not fair.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

Far out prediction, but maybe Kevin adds on to the cabin in the coming years. Like makes it into a mansion? And that's where we end up 12 or so years from now. Dan said in E magazine online that Kevin's future home is in drivable distance to Beth's studio. 

I like it!  Maybe not so far out. Looks like Bethlehem is not far from Philadelphia. And sometimes zoning laws can be complied with by keeping part of the original building, so large homes can grow where they might otherwise be restricted. That would be cool. The Pearson Pittsburgh home went to ashes but their cabin lives on. 

[Crs97]

My guess is that the police called to let them know they were bringing Rebecca home, and anyone who was out looking for her would have time to get home to meet them.  The looks that Kevin and Miguel were giving each other in that scene: they were taking it all very seriously.  It broke my heart.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Toby was complaining about something else and Kate assumes it is about her.  The thing that saved Toby’s reaction on the plane was his acknowledgement that he was overreacting.  

I wasn’t wild about having Tess come out to a stranger and would have loved to see the look on the teenager’s face when she said it.  “Okay, great, do you want fries or onion rings?” is the best response ever.

Nicky and Mandy get all the awards.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Higgins said:

I've known several Crossfit "widowers". Each case either ended in divorce or, in quitting CrossFit. It's also a poor health choice for both cardiac and musculoskeletal reasons. 

Thank you, I thought I was the only one who saw it that way. I was looking at some of the information on it's home site yesterday and it's just crazy stuff. When the idea of exercising for fitness first began the term was derived from the idea of being "fit" for emergency situations like suddenly having to run to catch a bus.  Every winter sedentary middle aged men die because they go out and shovel the driveway.  Crossfit seems to take those middle aged men and put them into  the emergency situation for no good reason.  I'd rather be a golf widow at least I wouldn't be worried every second that this would be the day someone put one too many weights on that rack.  I just Googled on Crossfit deaths, geeze.

[tennisgurl]

I feel like the riff will be about Rebecca's illness, and Randall keeping it a secret from his family. I dont know why Randall will keep it a secret though, and that might be why there is a riff. If Randall kept it a secret from them, thinking that he was the only person who could handle it, I can imagine that would really hurt and upset Kate and Kevin, or if Rebecca only trusted Randall with this, especially as Kate already feels inadequacy next to Rebecca, and Kevin struggles with feeling like the least favorite kid. 

[SunnyBeBe]

48 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Thank you, I thought I was the only one who saw it that way. I was looking at some of the information on it's home site yesterday and it's just crazy stuff. When the idea of exercising for fitness first began the term was derived from the idea of being "fit" for emergency situations like suddenly having to run to catch a bus.  Every winter sedentary middle aged men die because they go out and shovel the driveway.  Crossfit seems to take those middle aged men and put them into  the emergency situation for no good reason.  I'd rather be a golf widow at least I wouldn't be worried every second that this would be the day someone put one too many weights on that rack.  I just Googled on Crossfit deaths, geeze.

I worry, because my brother is into this. He's pretty fit, but, he's in his mid 40's!  If Toby is really caught up into it, I can't see him staying with Kate. Just can't. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[smartymarty]

10 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I feel like the riff will be about Rebecca's illness, and Randall keeping it a secret from his family.

I worry that this will be the problem. I worry because it's so stupid. Kevin and Kate have the opportunity to notice that something is wrong with Rebecca. Especially Kate. And siblings don't have to tell each other everything. Yet, in Pearson land, that does seem the rule. If this is the cause of the riff, then I will roll my eyes almost as much as I did over the solid food thing.

There is a sign commonly held out at marathons/triathlons that says "Still married? Not training enough." But anything taking a lot of one spouse's time is going to be a strain on the marriage. It'd be too bad if their marriage breaks down over this. IRL one answer would be for Kate to join Toby at the gym and on the diet. But this could require Chrissy Metz to lose weight, which the showrunners can't force. Instead, we'll have to endure Kate choosing to stress-eat instead of stress-exercise.

[Ohiopirate02]

I have a feeling with this show, the rift in the Big 3 will be something out of left field that was hinted at back in season 2, and not Rebecca's illness, or Randall's objections to Kevin's fiance.  

[Samwise979]

It's really not my personality to cry during shows or movies but, the Chinese restaurant scene got me a little bit teary eyed. I guess because I'm really close to my mom and alzheimer's is in my family. Ugh poor Rebecca. 

[SunnyBeBe]

34 minutes ago, Samwise979 said:

It's really not my personality to cry during shows or movies but, the Chinese restaurant scene got me a little bit teary eyed. I guess because I'm really close to my mom and alzheimer's is in my family. Ugh poor Rebecca. 

Yeah, it's rough on the patient, but, eventually, they don't know anything is wrong with them.  But, with the family......they grieve for years watching the decline until death.  I don't know how much more we will be told about Rebecca's situation. It seems like a huge thing for the family though.  

[tinderbox]

When Deja asked her mother if she'd like to join her to bake some cookies, I almost lost it.  IF any member of my family would attempt to bake cookies during the time I was preparing the Thanksgiving meal I would lose it.  Yes, my kitchen is fairly small and almost every space is being utilized during Thanksgiving preparations, but so is Beth's.  Beth had the patience of a saint in this episode, for a number of reasons.

I love Uncle Nicky.  Glad he's around for his family now.  Griffin Dunne is outstanding as is VietNam Nicky.

Uncle Kevin is the BEST.  Love how he interacts with his nieces and little nephew.  In fact, Kevin (Justin) is becoming my favorite character on this show.  Sorry, Jack (Milo).  Very sad to say you've been replaced unless the writers have some big plans for you.

I'd love for Kevin's wife (baby mama) to be someone entirely new to the story and NOT Cassidy.  It would certainly be a surprise.

I care about Deja but wouldn't mind less focus on her for a time.   I would love to see more in-depth storylines that would include Randall's two other daughters, too.  Yes, they've begun with Tess.  I know.

I think the cabin featured in this episode IS the Pearson Cabin we saw in the first season and not a different one Kevin purchased.

Edited November 21, 2019 by tinderbox

[Blackie]

37 minutes ago, tinderbox said:

When Deja asked her mother if she'd like to join her to bake some cookies, I almost lost it. 

I thought that was weird too, isn't the turkey in the oven?  Maybe Beth had already pre arranged that "activity" for Deja so she would have something to do with her mom, otherwise just nuts!

39 minutes ago, tinderbox said:

I love Uncle Nicky.  Glad he's around for his family now.  Griffin Dunne is outstanding as is VietNam Nicky.

At one point I almost thought it was present day Nicky made to look younger, like Jack.  I was like "wow that is good make-up", then I remembered it was a different actor that was on before in the Vietnam scenes. 😁

[mtlchick]

I don't have the episode saved on the PVR so someone would need to check.  But last week Rebecca was getting upset she couldn't find her phone, an iPhone 11 Pro.  In the time jump, the phone she left behind at the grocery store looked like an Android, meaning she did lose her phone at one point. 

[deirdra]

4 hours ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

The 3 Nickies are killing it.  It's eerie, in a good way. I liked, also, that they threw grouchy grandpa with the flask in there. Really fleshes out the Pearson men. 

All 3 Nickies are killing it.  Better actors than the 2 Jacks (Milo).

Edited November 21, 2019 by deirdra

[Quark]

I'm sorry, but Nicky is such a drain on this show. The scenes with Kevin/Tess were easily his best this season.

[Samwise979]

For those wondering why Kevin/Kate/Miguel did not go out looking for Rebecca, we really don't know how long she was gone. We were led to believe she was gone for 4+ hours because we thought those scenes were present day but really we saw her walk past a park, go into a grocery store and buy flowers, eat lunch at a Chinese restaurant and that's it. That could be an hour maybe? K,K&M might have been like, hmmm line up must be long at the store but not too concerned about the time she was gone. Also, I have a feeling the rest of the family are not talking to Randall because they are all in denial and pretending Rebecca is totally fine and just having "senior moments" and Randell tried to make them see what is really happening - a shoot the messenger type of scenario.  Which also plays into no one looking for Rebecca in the future scenes. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Samwise979

[Dejana]

Kevin mentioned his fiancée having morning sickness all day and was appreciative of the ginger tea suggestion. Every pregnancy can be different, even with the same woman, and sometimes nothing really helps a person's morning sickness. Still, if the fiancée has gone through a pregnancy already,  you would think she'd have a better handle on the situation or what helped her feel better before, and this would have come up by now in conversations with Kevin. It can't be concluded that his fiancée hasn't been pregnant previously from that one little scene, but if this is her first pregnancy, that would rule out Cassidy. 

Kevin being engaged and with a child on the way in nine months seems fast, but sometimes the eagerness to be a parent now can lead people to extremely hasty (and ultimately ill-advised) relationship decisions out of a sense of desperation. There are probably also many women thrown into Kevin's orbit who would almost instantly agree to have his babies, in a way that wouldn't happen for someone who's not a handsome, charismatic and rich celebrity. Randall's comment that Kevin should date first may prove telling in the long run. Who knows if Kevin will still be with the mother of his child(ren) when Rebecca is on her deathbed?

Edited November 22, 2019 by Dejana

[gonzosgirrl]

54 minutes ago, Samwise979 said:

For those wondering why Kevin/Kate/Miguel did not go out looking for Rebecca, we really don't know how long she was gone. We were led to believe she was gone for 4+ hours because we thought those scenes were present day but really we saw her walk past a park, go into a grocery store and buy flowers, eat lunch at a Chinese restaurant and that's it. That could be an hour maybe?

Her response to Kevin saying they had been calling her non-stop was that she hoped she hadn't ruined their party - which to me implies that the party time had come and gone since she'd been gone/missing. That would be more than a few hours, by my speculation.

[Dani-Ellie]

3 hours ago, smartymarty said:

Kevin and Kate have the opportunity to notice that something is wrong with Rebecca. Especially Kate. And siblings don't have to tell each other everything. Yet, in Pearson land, that does seem the rule. If this is the cause of the riff, then I will roll my eyes almost as much as I did over the solid food thing.

I agree that siblings don't have to tell each other everything but I think I would be a little put out if one of my siblings knew one of my parents was sick and didn't tell me.

[theatremouse]

Of all the things that irritated me about this episode, most still basically land in "and yet I'm not surprised because it's what this show does". But the one I can't quite let go is the suggestion of ginger tea. Not that the woman suggested it, but  that Kevin sounded like it was a genuinely new idea. Now, maybe he's just being Mr. Polite Famous Actor Guy, but you google nausea pretty much every website's gonna say "ginger! ginger is helpful for this!" So why this would not be something they'd already tried is beyond me. It's not like she was suggesting some Very Specific Flavor of a Very Specific brand or something. Maybe if there'd been something about like not even ginger ale helps and the point was ginger tea is the much better choice, ok fine, but as it played I just felt like, dude, ginger anything should've been your first try.

[ClareWalks]

It could be that Kevin, being a charming and socially savvy guy, had heard the ginger tea suggestion before but chose to be polite in response. What should he have said, "ginger tea, no duh, that's the FIRST thing she tried"?

Edited November 22, 2019 by ClareWalks

[Crs97]

I thought he was just being nice to the officer who brought his mom home.

I would eat the shrimp.  I don’t even think 5 pounds for 2 people is too much.  My roommate in law school and I would periodically order a small party platter from Red Lobster and split it for dinner.

I was bothered by how long all that food set out before they starting eating at Beth’s.  Didn’t stuff get cold?

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, tinderbox said:

When Deja asked her mother if she'd like to join her to bake some cookies, I almost lost it.  IF any member of my family would attempt to bake cookies during the time I was preparing the Thanksgiving meal I would lose it.  Yes, my kitchen is fairly small and almost every space is being utilized during Thanksgiving preparations, but so is Beth's.  Beth had the patience of a saint in this episode, for a number of reasons.

I love Uncle Nicky.  Glad he's around for his family now.  Griffin Dunne is outstanding as is VietNam Nicky.

Uncle Kevin is the BEST.  Love how he interacts with his nieces and little nephew.  In fact, Kevin (Justin) is becoming my favorite character on this show.  Sorry, Jack (Milo).  Very sad to say you've been replaced unless the writers have some big plans for you.

I'd love for Kevin's wife (baby mama) to be someone entirely new to the story and NOT Cassidy.  It would certainly be a surprise.

I care about Deja but wouldn't mind less focus on her for a time.   I would love to see more in-depth storylines that would include Randall's two other daughters, too.  Yes, they've begun with Tess.  I know.

I think the cabin featured in this episode IS the Pearson Cabin we saw in the first season and not a different one Kevin purchased.

I was hoping she would try to focus on Tess a little bit instead of being so obsessed with Deja.

It kind of reminded me of the episode of the Cosby (before the show was ruined for me) show we’re Denise was so impressed with all her step daughter’s mom had accomplished. Denise’s mom (who also plays Beth’s mom) said “Of course she accomplished a lot honey, because you were the one raising her child”.

[kili]

Quote

But maybe the fact that Miguel is ok with that, aka denial, is what causes Randal to try to take over her care and maybe that causes the rift.

Randall likes to fix things. He believes that if he works hard enough and long enough at any problem, he can fix it. He gets that trait partially from Jack and partially from his constant need to prove himself. 

When William was sick, Randall was convinced they could cure it with the right doctor and new breakthroughs. As William lays dying in Memphis, Randall is trying to arrange to fly him back to New York and offering to pay for a better specialist to be brought in. William knows he is dying and has accepted that fate, but Randall fights against it.

Since Rebecca is ill,  he may be following the same tack. He may want to constantly try new specialist and experimental procedures. Rebecca may have said she doesn't want that and Miguel is support her, as hard as it is for him.  They may have stopped talking to Randall because all he does is try to convince them to save Rebecca from herself. His heart is in the right place,  but some would rather go quietly into the good night instead of messed up by treatments which might not do all that much to improve things. 

Ultimately, it's just speculation. Maybe they aren't talking because Toby lured Randall into his cross-fit cult and Kate & Kevin just want to enjoy their birthday without somebody trying to get them to eat a gluten-free, nut-cheese cake with a sweat potato coulis sauce followed by an energetic game of caber toss. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by kili

[PRgal]

6 minutes ago, kili said:

Randall likes to fix things. He believes that if he works hard enough and long enough at any problem, he can fix it. He gets that trait partially from Jack and partially from his constant need to prove himself. 

When William was sick, Randall was convinced they could cure it with the right doctor and new breakthroughs. As William lays dying in Memphis, Randall is trying to arrange to fly him back to New York and offering to pay for a better specialist to be brought in. William knows he is dying and has accepted that fate, but Randall fights against it.

Since Rebecca is ill,  he may be following the same tack. He may want to constantly try new specialist and experimental procedures. Rebecca may have said she doesn't want that and Miguel is support her, as hard as it is for him.  They may have stopped talking to Randall because all he does is try to convince them to save Rebecca from herself. His heart is in the right place,  but some would rather go quietly into the good night instead of messed up by treatments which might not do all that much to improve things. 

Ultimately, it's just speculation. Maybe they aren't talking because Toby lured Randall into his cross-fit cult and Kate & Kevin just want to enjoy their birthday without somebody trying to get them to eat a gluten-free, nut-cheese cake with a sweat potato coulis sauce followed by an energetic game of cabre toss. 

Hahahahahaha on the Toby Cake.  And Toby Cake might be keto too.  But keto wouldn’t have sweet potatoes.  

Edited November 22, 2019 by PRgal

[theatremouse]

38 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

What should he have said, "ginger tea, no duh, that's the FIRST thing she tried"?

I didn't mean Kevin should've been rude, just that the scene was poorly written. It wasn't specific enough to be meaningful so it might as well not have been there beyond the initial morning sickness comment.

[Crs97]

Do you think it could have worked better if she had recommended the seasickness wrist bands?  They can help with morning sickness and wouldn’t be quite so obvious a solution.

[bros402]

18 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Yep.

I know my own cell phone and my parents' landline (which is the same number since we moved into that house when I was 2 years old). That's about it. I don't even know my own landline.

Had to google which exit 129 is; that's near my where brother lives. I'm a bit south from there.
 

I'm a little south of 129, but I think the next nearest way to the Turnpike is around like 92 or so, so 129 is a bit closer.

[debraran]

8 hours ago, kili said:

Randall likes to fix things. He believes that if he works hard enough and long enough at any problem, he can fix it. He gets that trait partially from Jack and partially from his constant need to prove himself. 

When William was sick, Randall was convinced they could cure it with the right doctor and new breakthroughs. As William lays dying in Memphis, Randall is trying to arrange to fly him back to New York and offering to pay for a better specialist to be brought in. William knows he is dying and has accepted that fate, but Randall fights against it.

Since Rebecca is ill,  he may be following the same tack. He may want to constantly try new specialist and experimental procedures. Rebecca may have said she doesn't want that and Miguel is support her, as hard as it is for him.  They may have stopped talking to Randall because all he does is try to convince them to save Rebecca from herself. His heart is in the right place,  but some would rather go quietly into the good night instead of messed up by treatments which might not do all that much to improve things. 

Ultimately, it's just speculation. Maybe they aren't talking because Toby lured Randall into his cross-fit cult and Kate & Kevin just want to enjoy their birthday without somebody trying to get them to eat a gluten-free, nut-cheese cake with a sweat potato coulis sauce followed by an energetic game of caber toss. 

Did Kevin say "We aren't talking", meaning himself (that's what I thought) or did he mean they all were angry with him?  For some reason I just thought he was upset with him and didn't want him there.  Kate might have been also. Poor Rebecca can't be.

The" Crossfit is a cult"articles are all over the Internet and some are serious and some are lighter but the community and closeness is paramount. Many articles on how Crossfit killed a relationship or marriage. They have articles on Crossfit affairs, you share and talk much more than most marriages or relationships etc. No doubt at all, the writers are not using Toby going to the gym which would be fine but Crossfit for a reason. I've witnessed it personally and know it actually turned me off the place instead of drawing me in as it does some.

Edited November 22, 2019 by debraran

[Higgins]

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I'm a vegetarian.  If I was going to that dinner I would bring my own tempeh and nut cheese.   I have no interest in stuffed carcass.  Actually I would never go.  I would puke all over the table due to the smell of meat.  Plus, I wouldn't want to be around most of those horrible people anyway.

Toby needs to workout and get in shape due to his heart attack.  His job at work is sitting on his ass work.   If he were at home, he would be sitting on his ass a lot too, when he isn't helping taking care of Jack.  He needs to exercise.  If he didn't he would probably overeat. 

If he needs to work out for cardiac health, CrossFit is the wrong choice. It is not healthy or safe.

[Crs97]

37 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

20/2019 at 12:11 PM, Jillybean said:

Kate's alone a lot because Toby works full-time and Kate's a SAHM. It comes with the territory. His Crossfit time is on top of his job.

He mentioned trying to go during lunch; he’s not always taking more time away from Kate and Jack.

[stefinny]

On 11/20/2019 at 9:23 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Just when I'm feeling positive about Beth, she goes and says the silliest things.  So, she REALLY wasn't happy that Deja's mother was doing well.  Petty jealousy of the the drug addicted woman with a poor background, who is living without her only daughter......really? 

But Beth admitted that her feelings were "evil" and she seemed to feel guilty about having them.  A person can't control their feelings, only their actions.  And she was kind to Shauna and supportive of Deja when Deja felt slighted.

[stefinny]

On 11/20/2019 at 10:34 AM, Cowgirl said:

Oh!  This is interesting.  I took Nicky's crying to mean that he thought Jack DID erase him, because Jack never mentioned that his interpretation of the song was from Nicky. 

I took it the same way

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

The" Crossfit is a cult"articles are all over the Internet and some are serious and some are lighter but the community and closeness is paramount. Many articles on how Crossfit killed a relationship or marriage. They have articles on Crossfit affairs, you share and talk much more than most marriages or relationships etc. No doubt at all, the writers are not using Toby going to the gym which would be fine but Crossfit for a reason. I've witnessed it personally and know it actually turned me off the place instead of drawing me in as it does some.

I learn something new here sometimes -- last episode it was that there are more people who don't like bananas than I ever would have thought, now it's the Crossfit thing.  I had no idea, just looked at Wikipedia and don't need to go more into it, but seems like a more extreme thing for Toby, busy working and bringing in new clients and new dad to a special needs baby, to be doing than just looking out for his physical and mental health.  I agree they are writing it in for a specific reason.  Maybe just as a flash point between he and Kate, or maybe he gets injured and is back to square one.  I can't remember if he is his slimmed down self in the flash forward, but it didn't strike me that way at the time.

[JudyObscure]

14 hours ago, tinderbox said:

When Deja asked her mother if she'd like to join her to bake some cookies, I almost lost it.  IF any member of my family would attempt to bake cookies during the time I was preparing the Thanksgiving meal I would lose it.

Swarms of people happily cooking together seems to be one of those special TV possibilities like  being able to drive using your left ear as an eye while you look at your passenger and discuss heavy problems.  In movies we usually see someone standing at an island chopping celery for hours so I guess that would be okay.

No matter how big your kitchen is you usually have just one sink and one oven.  Trying to concentrate on what you're doing while moving out of the way so someone can get the flour out of the cabinet, or telling someone where the baking powder is, or apologizing for not having a garlic press.  I've been there.  My relatives have learned to stay on the sofa and drink until I call them.  I can see the benefit of a person who is willing to assume the role of  kitchen wench,*  taking orders and washing pans, but the huge mess and oven space in baking cookies? Never.  That should have done the day before or not at all.

*What my brothers called me while we were growing up.

[Crs97]

Yes, I would not have been pleased if a guest decided to commandeer my kitchen like that.  She didn’t even check first with Beth or Miguel.

Hubby reminds me that years ago all the boys did that to me while I was trying to make dinner until I started yelling, “Everybody, out of my kitchen!”  I didn’t know he was on the phone with his boss, who heard me.  Boss asked if hubby needed to take a minute to help. Hubby responded, “Nope.  She means everybody.  I can assure you boys are out and I am not going in.”  Boss laughed and laughed.