S04.E09: So Long, Marianne

[debraran]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I think they're revealing that Toby is oversharing with his Crossfit buddies, and also teasing viewers with the prospect of a sexual affair that isn't happening. I think it's very intentional that the text was from someone with "Lady" in their name, who said that she would be there for him - as opposed to "we're here for you."

Those details will make Kate a lot more insecure than if she had just seen Toby's text.

Oh, wow, you probably hit the nail on the head there. I can totally see them giving us a plotline where Randall continues to keep Rebecca's secret, and then one of the other Pearsons allows her to be in a dangerous situation. Possibly even something that involves her endangering baby Jack.

If that happens, I could totally see Kate and/or Kevin hitting the roof when they find out that the situation could have been avoided if Randall had told them about her condition.

I'm also wondering if it's a brain tumor rather than dementia - which goes into remission, then comes back later down the line, leading to the scene with Rebecca on her deathbed.

I think something like that too, re tumor. Why do the mri etc, have her talk of pain and dizziness in past shows? I hope it’s educational and not just melodrama.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, bichonblitz said:

So grown up baby Jack is blind but can walk to the table with a platter full of shrimp, and place it on the table with ease? That did not look realistic to me at all.  

I had no problem with that.  It's Jack's house and he would know how many steps it its from counter to dining room table.  This is also going to be a platter he is familiar with and has moved plenty of times.  He was gripping it at the bottom with both hands.  Jack is blind not incompetent.

[TVForever]

8 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I feel like my head is about to explode. Real-time Big 3 Life has only progressed 3 months since the series began? How in the name of God would that be possible? 

I thought the series began at their 37th birthday, so we're almost 3 years in, not 3 months.

Or am I misunderstanding your question?

[SunnyBeBe]

11 hours ago, debraran said:

I feel the Crossfit stuff is because the few people I've known who did it and coworkers who had boyfriends who did it, it's almost a cult thing.  Some of them get really into it, right down to the clothes they wear. One women told me when her boyfriend sees another person wearing crossfit stuff in a store, they stop and talk, sometimes for a while. It can be very addicting. Another woman I used to work with broke up with her guy because of his obsession with competing and the "club" of them hanging out.

I'm not putting Crossfit down and some have a healthy relationship with it, but others, it's a bit much. I think they are having Toby be that way.

I wonder if they will use crossfit  as a major cause for a marital breakdown.   I have family members and friends who are/were in it big time. AND, the couples ALL have divorced or separated. I'm not kidding.  It seems to me that Kate would be a major reason for the marriage to breakdown.  I mean, you really have to ruin Thanksgiving by witching about how your cardiac patient husband got fit and healthy without you!!  Yeah, that's pretty sad.  Also, some single mothers provide all the child care for a baby PLUS work full time jobs outside the home, with LIMITED incomes.  How about being grateful for your blessings. But, I can imagine that it's tough for her to be so active with the baby, considering the state of her health.  Maybe, she needs a house cleaner or part time day care for the baby. 

Just when I'm feeling positive about Beth, she goes and says the silliest things.  So, she REALLY wasn't happy that Deja's mother was doing well.  Petty jealousy of the the drug addicted woman with a poor background, who is living without her only daughter......really?  Perhaps some rich people don't have much else to do, but, live their dreams, nit pick others and feel good about themselves all the time.  Beth was good with Deja towards the end. 

Can someone tell me who was in the scene of the flashforward that showed Kate and Toby's son with the shrimp plate? It looked like his pregnant wife and that's it?  Why just the two of them on Thanksgiving? Hmmm...

Edited November 20, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[bichonblitz]

20 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Jack is blind not incompetent.

I didn't say he was incompetent. Jeesh. 

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Can someone tell me who was in the scene of the flashforward that showed Kate and Toby's son with the shrimp plate? It looked like his pregnant wife and that's it?  Why just the two of them on Thanksgiving? Hmmm...

I took it that the guests just hadn’t arrived yet. No indication it was just going to be the two of them, only that they were hosting at their residence. 
 

11 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Just when I'm feeling positive about Beth, she goes and says the silliest things.  So, she REALLY wasn't happy that Deja's mother was doing well.  Petty jealousy of the the drug addicted woman with a poor background, who is living without her only daughter......really?  Perhaps some rich people don't have much else to do, but, live their dreams, nit pick others and feel good about themselves all the time.  Beth was good with Deja towards the end. 

That seemed realistic to me. There’s always going to be some jealousy around Deja’s feelings towards her birth mom. No matter how much Randall and Beth love her, most of her formative years have been with Shauna, she will carry and treasure those memories the rest of her life. (As inconsistent as Shauna was, Deja has great memories of life when her grandmother was alive and with her birth mom). And yeah Randall is the only Dad, he doesn’t have to deal with the comparisons Beth does. Shauna has a lot of problems but I dont recall drug addiction being one of them. I don’t feel awful for her living without her only daughter as she chose to place her for adoption- rather than work to get her back. I commend her for being upfront with her limitations and making sure Deja was in a safe place (she’s not a cruel person) but you don’t get all the social and emotional benefits of having a child without being willing to put in the physical, emotional and financial work to care for them. Shauna will get more points with me if she NEVER has another child, accepts motherhood isn’t for her but is a friend to Deja going forward (please please don’t let her have another baby writers!!!). 
 

Poor poor Deja, I can certainly understand how she felt awful, Shauna couldn’t bother getting it “together” for her, to be her mother but is enjoying life as a 30yrs old single woman without children just fine (another example of how just because people have a working reproductive system doesn’t mean they would make good parents). 

[gonzosgirrl]

11 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Very good episode but I kept wondering why Miguel wasn’t concerned with Rebecca being gone so long, he has to be noticing things.

I think the time-jump confused the issue here. If she were gone this long 9 months from now, when she's apparently much worse and everybody knows about it, it would be glaring if Miguel wasn't concerned.  But as it turned out, she really was at a movie (which we can assume she told Miguel about) and did have her phone off, and she was not so late as to have everyone on red alert.

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I didn't say he was incompetent. Jeesh. 

Blind people are quite capable of navigating their own home and carrying things just fine. My grandfather lost his sight as a senior citizen to glaucoma (so much different than baby Jack) and lived alone for years, able to set his own table and not bump into things with ease. My sister’s former caregiver has a daughter who was born blind (birth defect) same situation- Jack’s movement was realistic and didnt surprise me at all. In a range restaurant- maybe, his own home, very typical. 

[PRgal]

7 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Let's see, a loving wife could:

A) Allow her husband to believe he saw his son take his first bite of solid food, which, while not the truth, is the tiniest thing in the world to keep quiet about since it hurts no one and makes her husband so happy.

Or

B) Do the exact opposite of that.

Kate, of course, chooses B.  Congratulations, girl, you've won a shitty marriage!  Seriously, though, she told him specifically to hurt him because she's mad that he's lost weight.  Such an asshole.

Toby, though, your reaction wasn't princely either, buddy, and you're an asshole for bringing tempeh to Thanksgiving, which would get you summarily and expediently banished from my Thanksgiving.

Cocktail shrimp is absolutely the worst use of shrimp, and five pounds of it is revolting, but I guess we all have our peccadillos.  Not at Thanksgiving, though.  (Also, hot dogs at Thanksgiving??  I'm having a WASP meltdown.)

I don't care about Future Blind!Jack.  I didn't like him in the premiere, and I don't care about him and his wife and their future baby and their shrimp and their hot dogs.  Really, it's that I hate both of his parents, so, by the transitive property, I don't like him.  It's basic math, and math doesn't lie.

It's gotten to the point where every time Smuggy McFavoriteChild smugly smiles, I just want to punch him.  I don't blame Kevin (and...maybe everyone else?) for not speaking to him in the future.

Nicky, all the feelings about Jack and "So Long, Marianne" coupled with the "I look like a Viagra commercial" comment?

I really appreciated Beth's mixed emotions and how she put those aside to support Deja while honoring Shauna, and I always love interactions between her and Miguel (Migs!!).

Mandy Moore is doing some terrific work this season.

Kevin, you're the best, buddy!  Especially when you're with your nieces!  I loved how he helped Tess; that kind of supportive, non-judgmental love is exactly what he does best, and it helped Tess in exactly the right way.

Annie, you and your perfectly timed eye rolls win at everything in life from now until the end of time!

Lucy's pregnant.  Many pregnant women like weird things anyway, so you never know. 

ETA:  In reference to the flash forward scene, of course. 🙂 

Edited November 20, 2019 by PRgal

[zoey1996]

I was freaking out at baby Jack and the Pilgrim Rick hat, and some of the others with the hat.  I remember the Thanksgiving where there was conflict over who should wear the hat, and they were insistent that Miguel shouldn't wear it, because it was Jack's.  

[ams1001]

7 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Who is Kevin's fiancé? I liked the time juxtaposition to make us think Rebecca was lost on Thanksgiving when it was on the big 3's 40th birthday party. 

Now I'm trying to remember what people were wearing in those scenes, if there was anything specific to indicate that it was summer. 

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I noticed that Randall is now driving a Volvo instead of the $140k paid-for-in-cash Mercedes he used to be so fond of. I guess that was supposed to be another symbol of the "downsizing".

Or did he get it after Deja used his Mercedes for batting practice (seems odd to get a new car to downsize if the one he had was paid for; I doubt the insurance on the Mercedes was enough to make it worth spending money on a new car)?

6 hours ago, bros402 said:

The Turnpike is always backed up on Thanksgiving - in both directions. My experience is going down towards Philly, but it can take us upwards of two hours to get from Central Jersey to Cherry Hill (A town in NJ about ~15 minutes outside of Philly). That trip can take us 1 hour 20 minutes with no traffic.

Google told me 2 hours and 8 minutes from Alpine to Philly (but that might have been factoring then-current traffic and I don't remember what time it was when I looked the other day). Never taken the Turnpike on Thanksgiving, but we take the Parkway to Manchester and that's never fun (or there's another way without too much traffic but more deer); takes about an hour.

35 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

So grown up baby Jack is blind but can walk to the table with a platter full of shrimp, and place it on the table with ease? That did not look realistic to me at all.  

People who are blind, especially from birth, learn to navigate. In his own home, I don't find it unrealistic (I'm assuming he knew what had already been placed on the table and where, since he seemed to be the one putting all the food out).

26 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Maybe, she needs a house cleaner or part time day care for the baby. 

Isn't that why Rebecca moved out there in the first place? To help?

[kili]

Quote

 What kind of support system does Kate actually have?

Rebecca and BigMig45 moved to California specifically to help Kate with Jack Jr. So, even if Toby is at the gym 24/7, she does have a support system and could get out of the house if she wanted.  Rebecca is having episodes, but Miguel is still bringing  his A game.

I couldn't help but notice that Kate keeps throwing the gym thing at Toby. During Avacoda-gate, Kate asked what she should do if Jack starts walking while he is at the gym. She could have said "while you are at work", but she didn't. I know she told Beth that she secretly resents Toby getting fit, but she's not actually keeping it all that secret.

I felt sorry for Deja as she realized that her Mom put her life together as soon as she stopped being Deja's Mom. Being a Mom should have been all the kick Shawna needed to pull herself together, but it wasn't. I guess she felt trapped in a cycle and  losing her child finally gave her the kick? It's great that Shawna is finally being an adult, but I can also see how upsetting that could be for Deja. 

While Beth was freaking out about having to compete with Shawna to be Deja's Mom, Tess could have used a Mom. Kevin to the rescue with just the right tone. He is a better person when he's helping out others. He seemed sober 9 months from now, so it looks like he is learning to take care of himself. I love how he had a different story about his bruised face each time he was asked.

[SunnyBeBe]

11 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Very good episode but I kept wondering why Miguel wasn’t concerned with Rebecca being gone so long, he has to be noticing things. Didn’t like the message Kate saw on Toby’s phone. Can’t wait for January.

I have someone with dementia in my family and so I read a lot about it, especially boards with input from other family members of people with dementia.  AND, it's generally the person closest to the person who is suffering cognitive decline who notices long before others. In fact, the person is often able to put on a good performance and fool those they rarely see pretty well, but, they can't do that long term.  So, this portrayal about Randall noticing and Miguel not......not likely.  I will say that it's SHOCKING how many family members in real life KNOW their loved one has dementia and still allow them to drive, go out alone, stay alone, etc. It's scary.    Also, I hope Randall realizes that you  can't abide by a promise you make to someone who has brain damage, if their welfare is at stake. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[kili]

Rebecca: I was halfway through the trailer of Cats when I couldn't remember what movie I went to go see. 

I can relate. That trailer has that effect on people.

[Zero260]

So just throwing this thought out there FWIW ..... There were 7 people listed in Toby’s ‘CrossFit Crew’ text group. The text that Kate saw much later in the day from ladykryptonite said “don’t let her get you down. Here for you.”  ‘Her’ might not even be Kate but referencing something negative someone outside of the Crew may have said to him. Then again, it could be exactly what it looks like. 

[chitowngirl]

52 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

If my husband walked out of the house and was going to be gone for approx 3 hrs (round trip) while my house is filling up with guests and family and I'm in the middle of preparing a huge holiday dinner I would be supremely pissed off! Rebecca was gone and Kate had not arrived yet so Beth had no help. That sucked

Beth was a saint when everyone kept leaving and left her (and Miguel) to cook Thanksgiving dinner.  I can see where Rebecca needed to clear her head for a bit, but to go to a 3 hour movie?!!

And I too noticed that future Jack and his fiancé were alone on Thanksgiving.

[ams1001]

4 minutes ago, Zero260 said:

So just throwing this thought out there FWIW ..... There were 7 people listed in Toby’s ‘CrossFit Crew’ text group. The text that Kate saw much later in the day from ladykryptonite said “don’t let her get you down. Here for you.”  ‘Her’ might not even be Kate but referencing something negative someone outside of the Crew may have said to him. Then again, it could be exactly what it looks like. 

If it was part of a group text, maybe it wasn't even directed at Toby. (I only saw the one text message and the name at the top, though.)

[Ohiopirate02]

16 minutes ago, kili said:

Rebecca and BigMig45 moved to California specifically to help Kate with Jack Jr. So, even if Toby is at the gym 24/7, she does have a support system and could get out of the house if she wanted.  Rebecca is having episodes, but Miguel is still bringing  his A game.

My issue with this is that the writers are telling us that Rebecca and Miguel are in California not showing us.  Instead of us getting scenes with Kate and Rebecca with baby Jack as they work on their fractured relationship, we get Deja and Malik.  Or Kate and Miguel playing with Jack (have we ever gotten a real scene with Adult Kate and Miguel?), we get a whole episode devoted to the men and golf.  

[Zero260]

16 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

9 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Now I'm trying to remember what people were wearing in those scenes, if there was anything specific to indicate that it was summer. 

The producers goofed on this one. Rebecca is shown wearing fall clothing including a trench coat, and the man she mistook for William was wearing a heavy fall sweater. Yet supposedly this took place nine months ahead in August 2020 per the date on the police report Kate signed. But that’s ok, I loved the twist, and didn’t think about it until later anyway. 

[greekmom]

11 hours ago, Ohmo said:

This is not word for word, but the jist was Toby saying that he was trying to get past it (presumably the deal with the avocado) and someone in the chat responded with "Don't let her bring you down.  We're here for you."

I really don't get it.  I have had 2 children and they are WAY overdoing the importance of seeing baby Jack actually eat his first solid food. Plus first solid foods babies eat isn't avacados or jar baby food but cereal with breast or formula milk.  Then they move onto tasting mushed fruits, veggies and meat.  Seriously, both Toby and Kate are making a WAY big deal out of this.  What happens when baby Jack walks for the first time which is an important milestone.  A marching band and cake? 

[Blakeston]

Jack 2.0 and Lucy weren't celebrating alone. There was a comment about guests arriving.

I don't fault Beth for feeling threatened by Shauna's sudden transformation into Suzy Homemaker. If I were Beth, I would have been terrified that Shauna would reveal that she expected to play a role in raising Deja moving forward. That could be a really ugly situation. Who knows how long she'll maintain this level of stability? She could end up breaking Deja's heart again.

Also, it has to be a complicated experience for an adoptive parent to watch their child act so lovey-dovey with their birth parent, reminiscing over times you didn't get to share in.

And Beth understood that her feelings didn't come from a healthy place. I don't fault anyone for feeling jealousy or resentment, if they deal with it properly and don't allow it to affect their behavior.

[momma2rnr]

11 hours ago, Ohmo said:

This is not word for word, but the jist was Toby saying that he was trying to get past it (presumably the deal with the avocado) and someone in the chat responded with "Don't let her bring you down.  We're here for you."

Serious question about Lucy (Jack's wife): Can pregnant women eat shrimp safely?  Isn't it raw?

No the shrimp wasn't raw. And yes, pregnant women can. At least I always did.

[SunnyBeBe]

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

My issue with this is that the writers are telling us that Rebecca and Miguel are in California not showing us.  Instead of us getting scenes with Kate and Rebecca with baby Jack as they work on their fractured relationship, we get Deja and Malik.  Or Kate and Miguel playing with Jack (have we ever gotten a real scene with Adult Kate and Miguel?), we get a whole episode devoted to the men and golf.  

Yes.  Bizarre. Also bizarre is a loving, tradition worshiping grandmother who abandons the family to see a movie solo on Thanksgiving Day.....even if there were no concerns before this, I would think ALL of the adults in the family would have said WTH, mom has lost her mind!  Did they show if she took a car, uber, bus....?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

17 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

And I too noticed that future Jack and his fiancé were alone on Thanksgiving.

His wife said, "Five minute warning, Jack. Everyone will be here soon."
 

[Cowgirl]

12 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Did anyone see Annie come back with Randall and Nicky?! 😆

I loved when Nicky realized that Jack didn’t erase him when Randall told the story of the poem/song.

Oh!  This is interesting.  I took Nicky's crying to mean that he thought Jack DID erase him, because Jack never mentioned that his interpretation of the song was from Nicky. 

[ams1001]

10 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

And Beth understood that her feelings didn't come from a healthy place. I don't fault anyone for feeling jealousy or resentment, if they deal with it properly and don't allow it to affect their behavior.

Yeah, she was bugging me at first, but at least she acknowledged that what she was feeling was "evil" (I wouldn't go that far, personally...).

[WendyM]

Fuck Vietnam. 

I still can't believe Jack kept Nicky from his family. The more we see of their growing-up-together home life, I can't believe he didn't have more compassion. Sure, he helped Nicky all the time and tried to "fix" him. But forgiving him would have been so much more helpful and healing. But then again, Jack wasn't a saint.

Ironically enough, about 75% of all farmed shrimp comes from Asian countries--including Vietnam.
 

7 minutes ago, Cowgirl said:

Oh!  This is interesting.  I took Nicky's crying to mean that he thought Jack DID erase him, because Jack never mentioned that his interpretation of the song was from Nicky. 

I thought that too! Then I realized it was one of those TV show conventions where a secret is never ever revealed and it's oh-so frustrating.

7 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

Yeah, she was bugging me at first, but at least she acknowledged that what she was feeling was "evil" (I wouldn't go that far, personally...).

I felt that it was coming from fear. That Deja wouldn't need her anymore, if Shauna was all together and everything. Understandable and not really "evil."

[chitowngirl]

12 minutes ago, Cowgirl said:

Oh!  This is interesting.  I took Nicky's crying to mean that he thought Jack DID erase him, because Jack never mentioned that his interpretation of the song was from Nicky. 

I took to mean the other because when Nicky composed himself he asked to make a stop before home. That was for the shrimp. I took it to mean Nicky realized he could add on the the family traditions.

[momma2rnr]

1 hour ago, Blackie said:

Have you seen the show "What We Do in the Shadows"?  The vampires were looking for virgins and one place they thought would be good was a crossfit gym, because all they do there is talk about crossfit!!😆

Seriously this didn't make sense.  I know he knew that Rebecca was pissed but still.  I see where they were going with that storyline, I just don't like how it was written.  Why on earth would she want to go to a movie when all that company was coming, especially that cute baby. I guess they wanted her gone for awhile but it didn't work for Thanksgiving day I thought. Are the bakeries even open? I am seeing in my inlaws how a parent's dementia like symptoms and getting a diagnosis and treatment is causing power plays and rifts and not talking in the siblings, so that part seems accurate.

This isn't even showing at the regular movie chains, at least not here in Canada. So unless they have a specialty theatre in walking distance.  For me, I would have to go to downtown Toronto, and first book tickets online, which we tried to do and the system wasn't working. 

That and the stupid avocado storyline are just off the mark.  New parents usually have issues, there would be lots of more things that would make sense. 

On a side note, on the weekend my husband wanted to cook a pot roast in the slow cooker, but h is afraid of my instant pot so pulled out our 25 year old slow cooker.  Within 5 min we could smell plastic burning.  The heating coil and melted right through the bottom.  Good thing we hadn't of set it right up and then left the house for the day!

But it wasn't actually Thanksgiving day so the company thing doesn't really matter nor the bakery being open (although here in the US some grocery stores are open).  I'd assume that that movie is playing in a large metro city like Philly. Its playing here in Indianapolis. I thought it was a pretty good fakeout.

[TVForever]

Re Kate and Toby:

I don't have a problem with their weirdness over baby Jack-first time parents can be weirdly obsessive over the oddest things. I remember crying real tears the first time my firstborn fell and bruised her leg. The cruel world was coming to mess up my perfect child! I laugh about it to this day.

Those two are tired and stressed out over caring for their miracle baby that turned out to have special needs. Even if nothing else were going on, they would be arguing over little things. Unfortunately, those two do have a whole bunch of other stuff going on, so they are really going to need some help.

I don't think that Toby is having an affair-yet. But Beth was dead on when she told Kate that talking to someone outside of your marriage about the problems inside your marriage (instead of talking to your spouse) is a recipe for trouble (I'm paraphrasing). 

[Chelz]

It's a long shot but I wonder if Randall is upset with Kevin because of his bond with Tess.. re the coming out on social media. He looked kind of shocked at the news.

I was worried that when Tess came out to the drive thru person, that the person would be a classmate and it would backfire. But I was wrong and it worked out nicely.

Loved the funny moments...

Jack and Nicky ditching Thanksgiving... How Jack dropped the pie on the porch, rang the doorbell and ran.

Present day Nicky wanting to go on the road trip with Randall

Nicky: "It'll give me a chance to get to know Russell"

Randall: "Randall"

Nicky: "See?"

[kili]

Quote

I took it to mean Nicky realized he could add on the the family traditions.

That and Nicky realized he was part of the family. He'd already contributed to the family traditions. Jack may have not told the family about Nicky, but had grafted some of Nicky into the family.

Jack's insistence that the song was a poem was in rememberance of Nicky and Randall felt the same about the ending as Nicky did (that he hoped that Marianne came back and the two lovers shared more laughs).  Nicky had taught Jack to love the song and Jack taught his family to love it too. 

[Racj82]

11 hours ago, TheLotusFlower said:

I agree 100%.  I've never been a big Toby fan anyway, and this move was extremely immature.  Complaining about your spouse in a group text?  That's some bull****.  But I bet there will be lots of people on this forum who support Toby's nonsense because they view Kate as the wife from hell for some reason.

Or they just view him as a human being trying to work out complicated feelings. At this point, these are his friends. This is his outlet. People share their thoughts and feelings with friends. Even with their spouses.

I fully understand said spouse feeling uncomfortable about it. But, it's human. 

Toby is one of these people on the show where I feel like people are ready to pounce on everything he does. Miguel got that treatment for a while. Randall, Toby and sometimes Kate still get it. 

There is no one I judge too harshly on this show. All of them are extremely flawed. Even Jack keeps showing flaws at this point. 

I judge how they deal with drama not the drama itself.

Like Toby overreacted to the avocado thing. But, just like most things, it's not really about that. Kate and Toby have felt distant since the baby was born. They are both dealing with it in different ways. 

Toby has found a healthy outlet but he can't let it take him too far from his home. He needs to be careful with it. He could end up having a emotional affair in no time. Then, comes the physical. 

[Mars477]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

So grown up baby Jack is blind but can walk to the table with a platter full of shrimp, and place it on the table with ease? That did not look realistic to me at all.  

Worth noting that adult baby Jack’s actor is the same degree of blind that his character is (able to discern some light and color but that’s it).  So I would imagine he would have a better idea of what “looks realistic” than some random on the Internet.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Poor poor Deja, I can certainly understand how she felt awful, Shauna couldn’t bother getting it “together” for her, to be her mother but is enjoying life as a 30yrs old single woman without children just fine (another example of how just because people have a working reproductive system doesn’t mean they would make good parents). 

That was crushing to watch Deja's reactions.  Her mother was a little obtuse in talking about how much fun she has on weekends, etc.  I really felt for Deja.  Beth's advice to treasure the happy memories was good, but I would imagine Deja may still internalize some rejection of herself not being good enough for her mother to make some strides in her life.

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I had no problem with that.  It's Jack's house and he would know how many steps it its from counter to dining room table.  This is also going to be a platter he is familiar with and has moved plenty of times.  He was gripping it at the bottom with both hands.  Jack is blind not incompetent.

True, but dropping something does not = incompetence.  Sighted people break things all the time.  Didn't Jack break a plate the first time we saw him in the show?  Probably a large percentage of the time people with sight or without do not break things, but sometimes we all do.

[ams1001]

9 minutes ago, momma2rnr said:

But it wasn't actually Thanksgiving day so the company thing doesn't really matter nor the bakery being open (although here in the US some grocery stores are open).  I'd assume that that movie is playing in a large metro city like Philly. Its playing here in Indianapolis. I thought it was a pretty good fakeout.

Until the reveal, I thought the comment about getting together on "special occasions" was a clue that she couldn't remember what special occasion it was.

Going back to one of my earlier comments, I just read a TVLine article where they talked to the showrunner and the interviewer said something about recognizing the "pill rolling tremor" that Rebecca was doing with her hands, from relatives who had dementia. (The response was simply, "I'm sorry.")

[Higgins]

14 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't know why that would be considered strange.   I don't know why it's a problem.

I am sure there are a lot of people who talk about their home life with friends, classmates, coworkers, posters on the internet, workout buddies, etc., quite often without any of them knowing that person's significant other in their life.

Not by group text. That is strange.

[monakane]

12 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Nicky made his little speech about new traditions, and the flash forward showed Grown Up Baby Jack putting out a fancy tray of shrimp and he says something like "have some shrimp, it's five pounds" (and his pregnant wife says something about hot dogs and cheese, I think). Just to show us the traditions carry on another 30 years at least. It was a very short scene.

That was exactly when my Hulu Live froze and I missed that scene.  I'll have to do a rewatch.  Damn Hulu!

[ams1001]

21 minutes ago, TVForever said:

I don't have a problem with their weirdness over baby Jack-first time parents can be weirdly obsessive over the oddest things. I remember crying real tears the first time my firstborn fell and bruised her leg. The cruel world was coming to mess up my perfect child! I laugh about it to this day.

It's like those commercials where the parents are obsessive about the first kid (e.g., interviewing babysitters and wanting a professional with an advanced degree in child development) and then the second kid it's like, whatever ("phone numbers on the fridge, he likes to grab stuff so you might want to lose the nose ring...bye" to the teenage goth sitter). My mom mentioned that the other night. She was a lot more uptight about doing everything right with my brother. When I came along and she had to deal with a baby and a toddler, she wasn't so worried about stuff.

Edited November 20, 2019 by ams1001

[Zero260]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

1 hour ago, Zero260 said:

So just throwing this thought out there FWIW ..... There were 7 people listed in Toby’s ‘CrossFit Crew’ text group. The text that Kate saw much later in the day from ladykryptonite said “don’t let her get you down. Here for you.”  ‘Her’ might not even be Kate but referencing something negative someone outside of the Crew may have said to him. Then again, it could be exactly what it looks like. 

If it was part of a group text, maybe it wasn't even directed at Toby. (I only saw the one text message and the name at the top, though.)

Excellent point, AMS1001! I would bet you’re correct. That’s how group texts work. And Kate didn’t have time to scroll up the thread because Toby was hurrying her to take the pic. 

[BetyBee]

Good thing Kevin didn't take Tess to Chick-fil-a to come out to a stranger.  I kid!  

[Blakeston]

I thought Toby's level of anger about the avocado thing was fairly justified.

She should have just kept her mouth shut (which was the painfully obvious thing to do), or alternately, just told him the truth when it happened. If either of those things had happened, Toby should have just let it go. But Kate letting him make a huge deal about it for a day, then telling him the truth, was awful and stupid. What the hell, Kate?

Also stupid - Gregory not asking permission before putting avocado in Jack's mouth. If someone has a baby that's less than a year old, you specifically ask before introducing a food to them. Saying "here's some for Jack!" and then putting the spoon in his mouth is not cool. At all.

Also stupid - Kate not stopping him when she had the chance.

[Blackie]

29 minutes ago, momma2rnr said:

But it wasn't actually Thanksgiving day so the company thing doesn't really matter nor the bakery being open (although here in the US some grocery stores are open).  I'd assume that that movie is playing in a large metro city like Philly. Its playing here in Indianapolis. I thought it was a pretty good fakeout.

 It wasn't Thanksgiving day that they were having this meal? What day was it then? Still I would think she would want to be there when Kate and baby arrived.

I thought most big movie theater chains were boycotting showing the Irishman because it is a Netflix production.I

[DoubleUTeeEff]

2 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Kate can't keep her mouth shut about the avocado but can keep her mouth shut when she finds the text? 

I totally bought that. Kate is the type to stew over things rather than confront them head on. Case in point, instead of telling Toby that she feels left out of his new weight loss regime she makes passive aggressive comments about it whenever she has the chance. Also, she didn't tell him about the avocado until 24 hours later after Toby had posted the video of Jack eating the avocado and pics on instagram. So not only did she burst his bubble, she made him feel like a fool for believing he had experienced "a first." If she had spoken up immediately, it wouldn't have turned into "avocado-gate." Often it's the cover-up that is worse than the crime. I cannot believe I am talking this seriously about something as inconsequential as a baby eating avocado for the first time, but I don't really think it's about the avocado--I think it's about Kate and Toby's marriage. Couples fight about little things all the time but frequently they are just stand-ins for larger issues.

[Jillybean]

2 hours ago, Blackie said:

Have you seen the show "What We Do in the Shadows"?  The vampires were looking for virgins and one place they thought would be good was a crossfit gym, because all they do there is talk about crossfit!!😆

Seriously this didn't make sense.  I know he knew that Rebecca was pissed but still.  I see where they were going with that storyline, I just don't like how it was written.  Why on earth would she want to go to a movie when all that company was coming, especially that cute baby. I guess they wanted her gone for awhile but it didn't work for Thanksgiving day I thought. Are the bakeries even open? I am seeing in my inlaws how a parent's dementia like symptoms and getting a diagnosis and treatment is causing power plays and rifts and not talking in the siblings, so that part seems accurate.

This isn't even showing at the regular movie chains, at least not here in Canada. So unless they have a specialty theatre in walking distance.  For me, I would have to go to downtown Toronto, and first book tickets online, which we tried to do and the system wasn't working. 

That and the stupid avocado storyline are just off the mark.  New parents usually have issues, there would be lots of more things that would make sense. 

On a side note, on the weekend my husband wanted to cook a pot roast in the slow cooker, but h is afraid of my instant pot so pulled out our 25 year old slow cooker.  Within 5 min we could smell plastic burning.  The heating coil and melted right through the bottom.  Good thing we hadn't of set it right up and then left the house for the day!

I, too, didn't understand Rebecca taking off for the day when her entire family was gathering, something that isn't a frequent occurrence.

Tell your husband to check out PressureLuckCooking.com. He'll become an Instant Pot rock star! (And they have an IP pot roast recipe, though I've never tried it as I don't eat red meat).

[Jillybean]

32 minutes ago, Blackie said:

 It wasn't Thanksgiving day that they were having this meal? What day was it then? Still I would think she would want to be there when Kate and baby arrived.

Yes, it was Thanksgiving. Rebecca went to see the long movie on Thanksgiving.

In the flash-forward to the 40th birthday, she somehow wandered far away to find a bakery and ended up buying roses instead, before treating herself to some Chinese food and being driven back to the cabin by the police officer. She must have known the location of the cabin, or somehow someone found the phone number there. My question is: wouldn't Rebecca know Miguel's phone number, even if she needs to refer to her phone for other numbers? She referred to not knowing "my son's" (Kevin's, as it turned out) number because it was stored in her lost phone. There are certain numbers I know without needing to refer to my phone, but maybe that's part of her dementia.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Jillybean

[ams1001]

43 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Also stupid - Gregory not asking permission before putting avocado in Jack's mouth. If someone has a baby that's less than a year old, you specifically ask before introducing a food to them. Saying "here's some for Jack!" and then putting the spoon in his mouth is not cool. At all.

That bugged me, too. I would never give a baby any food without checking with the parent first. (Especially when the parent is right there.)

33 minutes ago, Blackie said:

 It wasn't Thanksgiving day that they were having this meal? What day was it then? Still I would think she would want to be there when Kate and baby arrived.

Rebecca wandering around town confused (seeing "William" on the sidewalk, buying flowers and leaving her phone behind, the Chinese restaurant, the police ride home) was 9 months in the future, on their 40th birthday. On Thanksgiving 2019, she really did see a movie then pick up a pie (pecan, it looked like).

[Jillybean]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It's hard for me to care about any marital problem between Kate and Toby when Kate is such an underwritten character and I feel like the writers are doing a 180 on Toby's character.  Why is Kate alone with Jack all the time--Is it because Toby is obsessed with Crossfit and prioritizes that over his marriage?  Is it because Kate does not want to leave Jack?  Is Toby giving Kate the opportunity to leave the house for a few hours on an Saturday to spend time on her herself?  Is Kate still friends with Madison?  What kind of support system does Kate actually have?

The writers aren't doing the work for this storyline to make any sense.  It's almost like they decided "well Rebecca and Jack had marital problems in season 2, Randall and Beth in season 3, so for Season 4 it's Kate and Toby's turn."  

On another note, Griffin Dunne is killing it.  

Kate's alone a lot because Toby works full-time and Kate's a SAHM. It comes with the territory. His Crossfit time is on top of his job.

I think their marital problems are realistic because their relationship progressed quickly from dating to cohabitating to marriage to baby. Kate admits to being jealous that they're no longer bonding over being overweight, which is what brought them together to begin with. I thought Kate was lucky to find another man to coddle her as much as Jack did. Now, it seems as though that's changed and Toby has to walk on eggshells around her after having flipped the script (her script). I've never liked Toby but he is much more likable this season. Adult Kate, to me, has always been a lot to take. 

Now that we know Toby has gone so far as to be bringing his own tempeh to Thanksgiving dinner and trying to get other people "in the box," it wouldn't be that surprising if he becomes embarrassed by Kate's weight problem, or at least, finds himself less attracted to her.

[RedDelicious]

The text in question. Not cool Toby. Get some coping skills. Don’t be a baby and whine to your friends about Avocado-Gate being so hard to get past. Grow up. Lady Kryptonite is not a screen name. It’s a contact Toby put into his phone. That is the big hint right there. 

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

The text in question. Not cool Toby. Get some coping skills. Don’t be a baby and whine to your friends about Avocado-Gate being so hard to get past. Grow up. Lady Kryptonite is not a screen name. It’s a contact Toby put into his phone. That is the big hint right there. 

Thanks for that; I only caught her reply. So I take back my comment that it could have been aimed at someone else in the group.