S39.E06: Suck It Up Buttercup

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, TaraS1 said:

I was totally convinced Elaine was a goner, especially when she made a comment at tribal along the lines of, "Someone's gonna get their feelings hurt tonight."  So glad the editors faked me out.

Actually, it's "fillings".  I'm just teasing, because that's how I hear her say the word and she says it a lot.

Watching the trauma on Jason's face was a bit much, LOL.  Why was he looking if he couldn't handle it?

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't know.  I don't know WHAT Aaron and Missy were going to do.  They did a lot of lying this episode.  They didn't have to stick with Elizabeth and Elaine, but they did.  So......  we don't really know they were convinced to flip.  

Yeah, I would really like to know what Missy and especially Aaron were up to.  

Obviously, they both seemed to prefer to flip rather than draw rocks.  But, once Elaine told them about the block-a-vote, Missy seemed to come around (though not enthusiastically) but Aaron still seemed bent on flipping.   

Did Missy talk Aaron out of flipping?  Did Elaine's TC speech about it being easy to say "Trust, trust" when you are on the top influence him?

I tend to think he went into TC knowing he was not flipping, because he was so adamant that he was flipping, but didn't, meaning it must have been an act, right?

I really don't get why he wanted to lie to the Vokai members, so strongly right to the end.  Maybe he feared one of them had an idol, and wanted them to be comfortable?

Anyway, I guess he is a pretty good actor, because he had me fooled and I prematurely hated him for turning on Lairo and Elaine.  

BTW, kudos to all 8 people at TC tonight for none of them saying "Lairo Strong" or "Vokai Strong".   

Edited October 31, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[Ms Blue Jay]

47 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I missed Tommy's death glare. When was it? I need to go back and see it.

Tribal, when the votes were read out, all for Jason.  I believe.

Lauren's comments about Elaine.  Yikes.  Not a good look.  

Edited October 31, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Lady Calypso]

31 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

I understand that Lauren, Tommy and Dan were shocked by Elaine's advantage, but when the camera panned to each one of them, Lauren was openly weeping and Dan, Tommy and Jason got teary-eyed as well, in addition to all four of them talking about how this vote steal was a moment that they would remember as one of the worst night of their lives, and they'd be replaying it in their minds forever, etc.  As self-proclaimed fans of Survivor, I don't think it's wise to go into TC so extremely confident in the outcome that when someone flips or a secret advantage/idol is played, you're shocked down to your very core.  I can't recall ever seeing a flip bring half a tribe to actual tears before.  I found it weird.

Especially when they were openly bragging to the other side about how they basically had the votes (because they were convinced they had Aaron). They were confident right up until the votes were being read, which isn't a good look. I mean, granted, even Aaron had ME convinced that he was ready to flip, and he obviously would have been willing, but something changed his mind. 

But, when you're so confident about the outcome, when it DOESN'T go your way, the fall is much harder so I'm not surprised Lauren, Tommy, Dan, and Jason were hit hard with Jason being voted out. Jason was trying to fist bump Aaron right up until the votes, for crying out loud. And Lauren had a smile on her face for most of Tribal Council. 

29 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I am very puzzled by Aaron. Not a big fan but his game is odd. It just seemed unnecessary to work the "I'm with you" so strongly and go back on it. He played it all the way to the end. I could maybe understand promoting the idea before he knew of the block vote thing and then start suggesting cold feet. That at least is unsurprising to the Tommy crew and feels less like a flat out you lied betrayal. So his game seems really stupid to me. I don't get moves that seem to unnecessarily piss people off and create mistrust.

Aaron definitely confuses me. Yes, he's playing for himself and he's made it clear that his only ally is himself. But...that's not necessarily a smart way to play Survivor. So I'm not sure whether the moves he's been making will end up benefiting him or getting him out sooner. He's just showing that nobody can actually trust him so why WOULD they risk keeping him around if he'll go work with anyone who offers him the best deal? Elaine and Elizabeth should be figuring that out once they learn that Aaron (and Missy) were willing to get out Elaine until the last minute, and I don't see why they wouldn't learn that at some point. 

[AZChristian]

I have a habit here out west of reading spoilers before Survivor comes on, so I know before the episode starts who's going home.

Last night I read that "Jason" was a goner.  Could not for the life of me remember who "Jason" was.  I asked Mr. AZC if he wanted to know who was going to be voted out.  Yep.  I said, "It's Jason."  He looked at me and said "Who's Jason?"

Anyway, I think tribal was a lot more fun, knowing the outcome in advance.  Seeing the arrogance turn to terror was awesome.

Way to go, Elaine!!!

[mojoween]

The fun part is going to be next week, when the old Vokai see Jason is gone, and they have no idea about the advantage, so their only thoughts will be that the tribe either drew rocks or Dan, Tommy or Lauren flipped and then they’ll be pissed.

[TaraS1]

2 hours ago, Special K said:

Since when is it spelled "durag," not do-rag.  After, all it's not used to protect your "hairdu"!

Well since I stupidly always thought it was "dude rag," I should probably just stay out of this discussion altogether lol

1 hour ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

Lauren can go at any time.  She's more than a little extra and she really pissed me off by saying that Elaine wasn't smart enough to strategize.  When her tears started?  I cackled.

ITA.  If she was saying she felt Elaine is dumb game-wise, I have no problem with that, that's her opinion.  But if she was implying Elaine is dumb because of the way she speaks/where she's from, then screw you, Lauren.

[Rachel RSL]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm not surprised at Jason being upset either. He just got blindsided so I think he's earned it. Aaron was just fist bumping him not even five minutes earlier so he truly thought he was good. 

In all fairness, that was the most non-mutual fist bump I've ever seen.  Jason went for a full on fist bump and Aaron barely even acknowledged it.  I clued in right there that Aaron wasn't flipping. Jason should have realized right then and there that something was going on.

13 hours ago, tvgoddess said:

I still enjoy Rob and Sandra and I might just be the only one. Hell, I'd like to be on an island alone with Rob period.

I had a full blown crush on Rob in his first season, mainly because I adore Boston-area accents. Now the crush isn't so strong but I still really get a kick out of him and would also like to join the "Alone On An Island With Rob" club, if I may.

11 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Was 33 year old Jamal calling 23 year old Jack, a "boy" OK?

He called him a "sweet, well-intentioned kid", which was his nice way of acknowledging that he knew Jack wasn't intentionally trying to be offensive.  And, while 23 yrs old may not make him an actual "kid", he's still young in terms of life experience. 

2 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

That said, I get where Jamal is coming from; if it made him feel a certain way hearing Jack's use of the term "durag", then no one can tell Jamal his feelings are wrong. 

THANK YOU! This is what always irritates me the most when people say something offensive and then get all defensive and claim the other person is wrong/overly sensitive/ a snowflake, etc.  If you say something that is hurtful to someone and they calmly and rationally explain to you why it's hurtful, it doesn't matter whether or not you agree.  You either feel bad about unintentionally hurting someone and stop doing/saying it or you can continue doing it, knowing full well that you are hurting someone....which makes you an asshole.

[Special K]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

According to Wikipedia (Where, anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information), it is spelled "do-rag". 

I didn't read the Wikipedia entry, but I think do-rag originally referred to scarves that women wore to protect their hair-do while doing housework.  Since much domestic labor was done by people of color, the word was associated with black women.  It was also used to protect the hair-do while sleeping.  (White women also used scarves and bonnets to protect their dos while sleeping and working in the hair-do era, but they weren't called do-rags, I don't think.  And don't even get me started on snoods.) 

I think it became associated with black men beginning in the jeri-curl era, which I want to say was the 70s.  Like the undershirt, it was basically at-home attire that became street wear.  Thus "thug" I guess.

[Tryangle]

2 hours ago, Special K said:

Since when is it spelled "durag," not do-rag.  After, all it's not used to protect your "hairdu"!

I've only known it as "du-rag" *shrugs*

1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I am very puzzled by Aaron. Not a big fan but his game is odd. It just seemed unnecessary to work the "I'm with you" so strongly and go back on it. He played it all the way to the end. I could maybe understand promoting the idea before he knew of the block vote thing and then start suggesting cold feet. That at least is unsurprising to the Tommy crew and feels less like a flat out you lied betrayal. So his game seems really stupid to me. I don't get moves that seem to unnecessarily piss people off and create mistrust.

Aaron is almost burning his bridges before he even gets to them. 

14 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

THANK YOU! This is what always irritates me the most when people say something offensive and then get all defensive and claim the other person is wrong/overly sensitive/ a snowflake, etc.  If you say something that is hurtful to someone and they calmly and rationally explain to you why it's hurtful, it doesn't matter whether or not you agree.  You either feel bad about unintentionally hurting someone and stop doing/saying it or you can continue doing it, knowing full well that you are hurting someone....which makes you an asshole.

^This.

On Lauren, dang. I had liked her but this episode dragged her way, way down. The inferences of Elaine not being clever, that was a slow boil, but her breaking down in tears after being all ready to chop throats,.. yeesh.

Noura is well on her way to being on the Mt. Rushmore of Survivor nutjobs.

[tvgoddess]

3 hours ago, simplyme said:

Re: Jack, Jamal, and durags: I kind of believe that since everyone lives different lives and those lives contain different experiences, each person may understand, interpret, or view things a bit differently. That doesn't make them wrong. I've heard it referred to as personal truths. And in that sense, it is possible for there to be multiple truths.

I mention this because I imagine in Jamal's experience, durags are associated with the things he talked about. For me, my life experience didn't give me any association between race and durag, though possibly some socioeconomic class associations. Since Jack made the durag comment to Jamal and immediately realized his misstep, I would guess he had some of the same associations Jamal had.

So I would say it isn't that Jamal is intent on being a victim. He's simply had different life experiences, and because his were different then mine (or some other viewers), it can be easy to see what he's saying as "wrong" because it doesn't match what I've lived. But it's true for him. 

Hoping that made sense...

I thought it made perfect sense. 

2 hours ago, himela said:

I hate that we lose another 5 mins for the Jamal - Jack interaction, I mean, I'm not insensitive and I get where he is coming from, but this is a strategy and physicality show, not a social one.

The game is part strategy, part physical, and part social. The social game is actually a key element of winning Survivor. It's Outwit (strategy), Outplay (physical) and Outlast (social). That's how I view it.

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

Same.  It's the accent.  And the smile.  And the eyes.  And the smartass remarks.  And the game smarts.  And the construction background.  Put it this way - I can totally see why Am-buh fell for him.

1 hour ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

Me three, ladies.  I could happily watch B-Rob be on every season of Survivor, Amazing Race and whatever random show CBS decides to stick him.  I'm a sucker for an Alpha male and Whew!  Is he Alpha.  But I'll bet his girls have him wrapped around all their fingers.

All of this. And yeah, his Instagram videos and pictures of him with his little girls are entirely precious and adorable. 

[Otherkate]

30 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

THANK YOU! This is what always irritates me the most when people say something offensive and then get all defensive and claim the other person is wrong/overly sensitive/ a snowflake, etc.  If you say something that is hurtful to someone and they calmly and rationally explain to you why it's hurtful, it doesn't matter whether or not you agree.  You either feel bad about unintentionally hurting someone and stop doing/saying it or you can continue doing it, knowing full well that you are hurting someone....which makes you an asshole.

And thank you. This is called being an adult. Jack and Jamal both handled an unfortunate situation very well. I did not get the impression at all that Jamal thinks Jack is racist. I think he was simply pointing out that that use of that term (instead of what they always call them - buffs) can be hurtful to a black man and that someone in Jack's position may not even realize it before saying it because it's not something that would affect him directly ever. I know I personally gasped when Jack said it and Jack himself seemed to realize it immediately. Jamal's point was that it may mean nothing to someone like Jack (or me) but that it does to others. I had no opinion of Jack before this and couldn't stand Jamal, but walked away from this episode really liking both of them. And I honestly don't know how someone could not understand that the term is negatively associated with black people - men in particular, given the history of the term. Growing up in the 90s, I certainly associated durags with the gangs that wore them in certain colors as it was all over the news, in movies, in TV shows, in music, but it goes well beyond that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-rag. Regardless, if someone tells me that I've said or done something hurtful, I do hope I would handle it the way Jack did. And if I were in Jamal's position, I do hope that I would handle it with grace the way that he did. 

I was surprised to see Jason go. I kind of liked him. I had no real opinion on Tommy before tonight, but now absolutely can't stand him mostly because of that ridiculous reaction he had at TC. None of those people should ever play poker. 

Put me on the list of people who are really enjoying Sandra and Rob. Rob is definitely an alpha, which I always appreciate. 

I know, objectively, that Aaron is attractive but his personality is so awful that I can't even see it anymore. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Otherkate

[seacliffsal]

I actually do believe that Rob has built that two story shelter (with Sandra helping of course).  He has always seemed to want to be busy and we have seen his construction skills on other seasons.  I remember one camp was more like a resort and the other tribe members credited Rob with all of it (unlike Rupert's underwater cave, Rob actually builds useful/fun things).  Are they actually living there 24/7?  No idea.  But, I do think he likes to tinker and build.

I was surprised that Missy wasn't one of the ones shooting the basketballs as I thought she played in college.  I'm probably wrong.  

Lauren's comments irk me as they are a real example of stereotyping.  And, I believe they show Lauren is not as smart as she thinks she is as I think Elaine is playing up her aw shucks demeanor and is much smarter than she is letting on and Lauren is falling for it.

Dean seemed to be trying to work his way into a better position on his tribe by trying to put the target on Noura rather than on himself.   And I think that was what Aaron was doing until he finally realized that Elaine's 'take a vote' could take him further in the game than being on the bottom of the other tribe.  I was totally surprised (but pleased) that he went with his tribe at TC.  I am always so entertained and happy when the tribe that thought they were running the game finds out during tribal that...not so much.  The facial and demeanor changes that occurred when they heard about Elaine's no-vote were priceless.  AND, I loved that the frantic whispering and plotting after her announcement came to nothing.  Classic moment.  I have been so thoroughly entertained with every tribal council.  Keep it up!

Is this the first season with the new casting director?  If so, I am thrilled with the change in the casting department.  Keep it up!

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I actually do believe that Rob has built that two story shelter (with Sandra helping of course).  He has always seemed to want to be busy and we have seen his construction skills on other seasons.  I remember one camp was more like a resort and the other tribe members credited Rob with all of it (unlike Rupert's underwater cave, Rob actually builds useful/fun things).  Are they actually living there 24/7?  No idea.  But, I do think he likes to tinker and build.

I was surprised that Missy wasn't one of the ones shooting the basketballs as I thought she played in college.  I'm probably wrong.  

Lauren's comments irk me as they are a real example of stereotyping.  And, I believe they show Lauren is not as smart as she thinks she is as I think Elaine is playing up her aw shucks demeanor and is much smarter than she is letting on and Lauren is falling for it.

Dean seemed to be trying to work his way into a better position on his tribe by trying to put the target on Noura rather than on himself.   And I think that was what Aaron was doing until he finally realized that Elaine's 'take a vote' could take him further in the game than being on the bottom of the other tribe.  I was totally surprised (but pleased) that he went with his tribe at TC.  I am always so entertained and happy when the tribe that thought they were running the game finds out during tribal that...not so much.  The facial and demeanor changes that occurred when they heard about Elaine's no-vote were priceless.  AND, I loved that the frantic whispering and plotting after her announcement came to nothing.  Classic moment.  I have been so thoroughly entertained with every tribal council.  Keep it up!

Is this the first season with the new casting director?  If so, I am thrilled with the change in the casting department.  Keep it up!

I was also surprised Missy wasn't shooting baskets, and yes, she played college basketball ant he US Air Force Academy.  At first I thought she was the shooter, because she was outside the cage, but then I realized she was the rebounder.   

I am kind of torn over whether Dean would have been smarter to try to work with Noura or to rat her out.   I guess it depends upon how tight the alliance is over there.  If they are rock solid, he probably made the right move.  

I was so angry at Aaron during the whole TC, because I was sure he was flipping, and then I was so pleasantly surprised and thrilled to see he didn't.  All the wailing and gnashing of teeth by the Old Vokai members was very enjoyable.   

Edited October 31, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[lilabennet]

1 hour ago, TaraS1 said:

Well since I stupidly always thought it was "dude rag," I should probably just stay out of this discussion altogether lol

That's one up on me.  I completely missed Jamal saying it was a "buff" because I was too busy thinking, "Do rag?  What the heck is a do rag?".  As someone with no associations to the term in any way, I appreciated Jamal and Jack's talk as a genuine human moment.  It actually brought tears to my eyes.

Even though what Lauren said about Elaine was not cool, I really appreciated that scene because it was proof that Elaine's shtick is working.  I just don't know if she is consciously playing it up to make people underestimate her or not.

I'm not sure what I think about Dean immediately tattling to Jamal about Noura.  On the one hand, Noura probably wouldn't be a reliable ally.  On the other hand, you are down 2-5 on that tribe.  You should keep as many doors open as you can.  On the third hand, maybe you just opened a door with Jamal who probably would be a lot easier to work with.  But, then again, Jamal is the type that could have been the leader on his original tribe and how could Dean know for sure that Jamal wasn't the leader on OldVokai and wouldn't just thank him for the information and still plan on pagonging him?  In other words, I could never be on Survivor because seeing so many possibilities would make me utterly indecisive while driving me crazy at the same time.

I don't find Aaron attractive because he looks too much like my brother in the face.  He has a nice body but I can't appreciate it, because ewwwwww.

Edited October 31, 2019 by lilabennet
More to say about Aaron

[ljenkins782]

Quote

Since when is it spelled "durag," not do-rag.  After, all it's not used to protect your "hairdu"!

I honestly missed the significance of the remark at first thanks to this weird, nonhyphenated spelling. 

Especially since it came right after the montage of Jamal's dancing, where he was explaining what things were called. I saw the subtitles on "durag" and thought it just another word I didn't know, cause I read it as 'duh-rag", like drag with a duh sound. It wasn't until Jamal said it out loud that the penny dropped. 

I thought it was a nice moment, I'm glad they were able to discuss it and clear the air so it didn't just hang there awkwardly.

Quote

I am very puzzled by Aaron. Not a big fan but his game is odd. It just seemed unnecessary to work the "I'm with you" so strongly and go back on it. He played it all the way to the end. I could maybe understand promoting the idea before he knew of the block vote thing and then start suggesting cold feet. That at least is unsurprising to the Tommy crew and feels less like a flat out you lied betrayal. So his game seems really stupid to me. I don't get moves that seem to unnecessarily piss people off and create mistrust.

Yeah, he worked that a bit too hard if he planned to stick with his old tribe. He may have taken the target that would have been aimed at Elaine (even more than she was already targeted) since it was her advantage and put it on himself, because his insistence that he was with them made him the swing vote that went the wrong way. If he'd just stuck with his old tribe due to tribal loyalty, he'd just be one of the crowd of 4.

I didn't care for Jason, so I was glad to see him go. He had a smarmy way about him that reminded me of the worst of Rob C or Alex from Fiji. Dan can also go anytime, the rifling of the bags was obnoxious. Somebody ought to track down that tarantula that was in the shelter and plant in one of the bags for Dan's next snooping expedition.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

He called him a "sweet, well-intentioned kid", which was his nice way of acknowledging that he knew Jack wasn't intentionally trying to be offensive.  

I just replayed it.  He called him a "sweet, well-intentioned boy."  If he was trying to acknowledge that he knew Jack wasn't intentionally trying to be offensive, perhaps he could have been more careful in his own choice of words . . . if he, himself, wasn't intentionally trying to be offensive.

Good for the goose, good for the gander.

[Bryce Lynch]

21 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I just replayed it.  He called him a "sweet, well-intentioned boy."  If he was trying to acknowledge that he knew Jack wasn't intentionally trying to be offensive, perhaps he could have been more careful in his own choice of words . . . if he, himself, wasn't intentionally trying to be offensive.

Good for the goose, good for the gander.

Exactly.  Jack, while clearly meaning no harm, said something a little goofy that could be misinterpreted to be offensive, if you really want to feel aggrieved.  Federal case.  

Jamal, an older man, who hold others to standards of hyper political correctness, while criticizing Jack's comment,  said something that could be interpreted as offensive, but probably was not intended that way.  No big deal.  

I am really sad for Jamal, not angry at him.  He has been programmed to define himself as a victim, and pounce on any offhand comment or perceived slight that can be contorted to support that image of himself.   

I could see him looking a little side eyed at the comment (though he'd be a better man just to ignore it).  But, to not immediately accept Jack's apology and make such a huge deal of it was a bad look, IMHO.  

 

[Kenzie]

6 hours ago, violet and green said:

I don't see what a lot of posters are saying re his drool-worthy attractiveness.

I don't get it either.

He has a great physique but looks-wise ... not so much.

[LadyChatts]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Aaron definitely confuses me. Yes, he's playing for himself and he's made it clear that his only ally is himself. But...that's not necessarily a smart way to play Survivor. So I'm not sure whether the moves he's been making will end up benefiting him or getting him out sooner. He's just showing that nobody can actually trust him so why WOULD they risk keeping him around if he'll go work with anyone who offers him the best deal? Elaine and Elizabeth should be figuring that out once they learn that Aaron (and Missy) were willing to get out Elaine until the last minute, and I don't see why they wouldn't learn that at some point. 

The worst thing Aaron and Missy did was be quick to throw Elaine under the bus and tell the other side they would vote with them.  No one from Old Vokai was making the same offer; they said they’d force a rock draw.  I know they had no way of knowing what was going to happen with the advantage, but even right up until the end Aaron made it seem like he was still with them.  Moves like that are going to cost him.  Aaron and Missy haven’t made the merge yet, so in a larger group, they may have a tough time calling the shots (although I think they will still believe they are in control).  

It goes back to what Chelsea said in her interviews, that they have big move-itis.  I’m truly at a loss who is going to win at this point, as it’s still early,  but with how quick they are to throw each other under the bus and backstabbing people left and right and not showing a shred of honesty, I think that may cost them if they make the final 3.  Especially Aaron.  Missy might get away with using him as a shield.  

[blackwing]

Am I the only one that was curious about the exact wording of the advantage and when it had to be played?  I can't remember when there were previous Block a Vote, but does it have to be announced and selected BEFORE the voting process begins?  All I heard was "before you vote, announce whose vote you will block".  Is the "you" supposed to be you the holder of the advantage, or you the tribe?  If it's the former, couldn't Elaine have announced in the booth that she was blocking Jason's vote and then his vote wouldn't count?

I remember with the Idol Nullifier that it was played secretly in the booth.  With this Block a Vote I just think it creates a huge target on the person who plays it if everyone knows in advance who had it and used it.  Good thing Elaine told all of her alliance in advance otherwise if they had felt left out they could have turned on her.

15 hours ago, Lamima said:

I am team old Lairo. I love an underdog so I was sooo glad Aaron wasn't dumb enough to flip sides. He'd have been the last old Lairo out but he'd be out, for sure. Now he has a chance with his old Lairo team. 

And, Jason...man, that was a sore loser if ever I saw one. Wow, dude. Not a good look!

Loved the tribal.  I don't understand why Jason's side was SO MAD.  It's a game.  They sign up for this game knowing that it is unpredictable.  They could have just as easily wound up on the side with the advantage.  They have to be kicking themselves that they all decided to sit Elaine out of the reward challenge and that directly led to Jason going home.

15 hours ago, vb68 said:

I don't really think Rob and Sandra are living in a shelter. they are having margaritas with Jeff behind the scenes. (Mark Ritas for any real old time viewers ;).

Agreed.  I don't care how good Rob is at construction, he still needs people to help out.  Especially with this structure that is multiple levels?  Would need someone to help holding the bamboo in place at the very least and I don't see Sandra doing anything.  Production built this and he tinkered with it just for show.

15 hours ago, tvgoddess said:

I'm tired of the challenges that involve basketball. I feel like we've had a lot of those back to back to back. I miss the old school swimming/rafting/diving challenges that really took a tribe's full strength. There's no way that Lairo would have won immunity if that had been the case.

I hear you, but didn't we just have that swimming/diving challenge?  Elizabeth and Janet swam, dove down to unlock a key, etc?  I feel like there's a lot of throwing/basketball/knocking things down challenges but what else are they going to do?

Karishma didn't look useless in the reward challenge because there were other people there to carry the raft, she just had to put her hand on it.  And she didn't look useless in the immunity challenge because she was designated as one of the people to hold the balls.  I want the next challenges to showcase her physical ineptitude.

[Rachel RSL]

41 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

But, to not immediately accept Jack's apology and make such a huge deal of it was a bad look, IMHO.  

I thought Jamal did immediately accept his apology, didn't he?  Then he said he needed some more time to process it before they discussed it in more detail.  In any case, both Jack and Jamal both thought that the comment was inappropriate and, in my opinion, both of them handled the situation with grace. That could have gotten really ugly, depending on the personalities of the people involved.

26 minutes ago, Kenzie said:

I don't get it either.

He has a great physique but looks-wise ... not so much.

Ditto.  Maybe he's just not my type? I can certainly see how people find him attractive but I definitely don't see the drool-worthiness. Then again, unless you're Keanu Reeves, you're not drool-worthy in my books. 😉

[eskimo]

3 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Loved the tribal.  I don't understand why Jason's side was SO MAD. 

I think this is what you get when one tribe wins all the time, they begin to think they are untouchable and arrogance isn't far behind.  It's one of the main reasons I like to see a more even win/lose ratio.  Although if one tribe votes out all their strong players first, it is their own fault if they get creamed.  It's not so much that I pity one side (unless production stacks one tribe at the beginning), but it fosters a sense of self-grandeur in some members of the other tribe.  I always love to see them brought down a peg or two.  Everybody should be sweating the vote at some point. 

[princelina]

5 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Has anyone ever failed to find the idol/advantage hidden in a challenge or been busted finding it?  I can't remember this ever happening. 

IN a previous season there was an advantage hidden on a raft under a bench which the person who was chosen to sit out could have found but didn't, and I think someone else may have found it.  I think the person chosen to sit out who didn't find it was Mikaela (? Young black woman with long braids) although she may have been the one who found it - she was definitely involved in the transaction.  Someone with a better memory than me (which is most of you) might be able to flesh this out 😄 

[himela]

I am also sure that this advantage was manipulated by production to be given to Elaine; it was certain that Vokai would sit out either Elaine or Lauren in the reward challenge, so when they saw it's Elaine they made the advantage this way as to be a block vote for her benefit because, I don't know if you have noticed, the producer NEED us to love Elaine! Maybe if it was Lauren they would give her another advantage or even an idol. This is why I don't like this concept of IoI, I am sure the producers have already and will continue to take advantage of it and choose what advantages to give to what players and when. We knew Elaine was in danger but they don't only give her an idol, they give her an advantage that can save her whole old tribe so that when they merge there won't be like 9 old Vokai - 4 old lairo and the game becomes boring. Now there is a better chance with 8-7 that things will get interesting, with Karishma already having flipped and Noura being a wild card.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

THANK YOU! This is what always irritates me the most when people say something offensive and then get all defensive and claim the other person is wrong/overly sensitive/ a snowflake, etc.  If you say something that is hurtful to someone and they calmly and rationally explain to you why it's hurtful, it doesn't matter whether or not you agree.  You either feel bad about unintentionally hurting someone and stop doing/saying it or you can continue doing it, knowing full well that you are hurting someone....which makes you an asshole.

I agree that people have a right to their own feelings and if  Jack saying a certain thing makes Jamal feel a certain way  -- that's his right.  It's also Jamal's right to tell Jack how and why it hurt his feelings, which he did  and Jack was quick to make a sincere apology. Cool.

Where I parted sympathy with Jamal and switched it to Jack was when Jamal couldn't accept the apology right away but had to think about it  for an entire  day leaving Jack  to feel like the Imperial Wizard of the KKK. 

Only at sundown was he ready to talk to Jack and give him a long lecture about just how wrong Jack had been.  By the time Jamal finally accepted Jack's second apology I was starting to cry a little bit because I was identifying with Jack and feeling a wave of depression sweep over me that would have been enough to make me quit the game.  Jack is evidently made of sterner stuff than I and he seemed happy with the outcome but , dayum, that was a  whole lot of punishment for using a word that is used in  sports  and music all the time about a cloth scarf.

Edited October 31, 2019 by JudyObscure

[SuburbanHangSuite]

2 hours ago, lilabennet said:

I don't find Aaron attractive because he looks too much like my brother in the face.  He has a nice body but I can't appreciate it, because ewwwwww.

LOL.  So I don't know your brother but Aaron reminds me of Neil from Young & the Restless.  

R.I.P, Kristoff.

[iMonrey]

I'm sort of torn about Elaine because personally I don't find corn-pone all that endearing. But she did sort of get to me when she talked about losing her mother a few months back (without bawling her eyes out either) and wanting that life-changing adventure everybody always talks about. 

That said I think Aaron would have been better off sticking with the flip and getting rid of her. I think too much emphasis is placed on tribal alliances (admittedly, by the players themselves too often) when there are so many swaps and merges and so forth. Aaron being in tight with a couple of other alpha males was probably his best way forward. 

Quote

There was one point where Rob had to shush Sandra because she was getting too excited and giggling loudly at Elaine's "Suck it up, buttercup."

You could still hear her laughing when they cut back to tribal council. It might just be editing but I swear they must have heard her.  I'm still of the opinion that everybody already knows about Rob and Sandra being on IotI and probably know they're watching TC too. I think the "twist" is mostly a bust.

Quote

There's no real way to plan around vote steals or overcome them. You're just put in a position to beg for mercy. 

What bugs me is the show handing out idols and advantages left and right just to make sure the show remains surprising and there are lots of blindsides. That's too much interference for me. Too many people do everything right then just get screwed over anyway because of the show's interference. 

[blackwing]

11 minutes ago, princelina said:

IN a previous season there was an advantage hidden on a raft under a bench which the person who was chosen to sit out could have found but didn't, and I think someone else may have found it.  I think the person chosen to sit out who didn't find it was Mikaela (? Young black woman with long braids) although she may have been the one who found it - she was definitely involved in the transaction.  Someone with a better memory than me (which is most of you) might be able to flesh this out 😄 

Yes, that was Michaela.  She was on the sit out bench and there was a "Secret Advantage" right below her feet and she didn't see it.  Sarah the cop (who eventually won) saw it ("I'm a cop, I NOTICE things") and after the challenge was done, she jumped in the water like many do after the challenge and swam over and secretly grabbed it.

I think the original poster though was asking whether anyone who has practically been spoon fed an idol/advantage has ever missed it.  As in, the person gets a clue or instructions (such as, it's underneath the floor of your shelter, or it's underneath the 2nd table in the challenge) and still failed to miss.  Michaela I can kind of excuse because she was completely unaware of it... it wasn't like she was told to try and get it and then failed.

Wasn't there a "clue in the bottle of soda" that someone recently missed?  Didn't see it at all and someone else later got the bottle and got the clue?  Or am I making this up?

[Tasya]

8 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I agree that people have a right to their own feelings and if  Dean saying a certain thing makes Jamal feel a certain way  -- that's his right.  It's also Jamal's right to tell Dean how and why it hurt his feelings, which he did  and Dean was quick to make a sincere apology. Cool.

Where I parted sympathy with Jamal and switched it to Dean was when Jamal couldn't accept the apology right away but had to think about it  for an entire  day leaving Dean  to feel like the Imperial Wizard of the KKK. 

Only at sundown was he ready to talk to Dean and give him a long lecture about just how wrong Dean had been.  By the time Jamal finally accepted Dean's second apology I was starting to cry a little bit because I was identifying with Dean and feeling a wave of depression sweep over me that would have been enough to make me quit the game.  Dean is evidently made of sterner stuff than I and he seemed happy with the outcome but , dayum, that was a  whole lot of punishment for using a word that is used in  sports  and music all the time about a cloth scarf.

First of all it was Jack. Secondly, he accepted the apology right away and said that he didn't want to talk about it anymore until he had time to process it. That's it. He didn't make Jack wait he said "I don't want to go on about this until I process it". But yes, let's feel sorry for the person that made the thoughtless comment because he was made to reflect on it rather than the person who was hurt by the comment. 🙄

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Rachel RSL said:

I thought Jamal did immediately accept his apology, didn't he?  Then he said he needed some more time to process it before they discussed it in more detail.  In any case, both Jack and Jamal both thought that the comment was inappropriate and, in my opinion, both of them handled the situation with grace. That could have gotten really ugly, depending on the personalities of the people involved.

Ditto.  Maybe he's just not my type? I can certainly see how people find him attractive but I definitely don't see the drool-worthiness. Then again, unless you're Keanu Reeves, you're not drool-worthy in my books. 😉

I don't remember the exact wording, but Jamal said something to the effect that it would take him a while to get over it.   Then he lectured Jack about how "privileged" he was because he was straight, male and white and rambled on about "pillars of identity".  (Race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc.).   

It seems clear to me that Jamal is the one who divides people by these things.   He doesn't see people as just human beings.  He puts them into various boxes based upon race, gender, religion, etc,, and he put Jack in the Box (pun intended) of the dreaded, "privileged" straight, white males, who are the root of all evil   

It seems like, to Jamal, if you are a straight, white male, you are by default a "racist, sexist, homophobic, oppressor" who has had an easy life.   

[lilabennet]

50 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Am I the only one that was curious about the exact wording of the advantage and when it had to be played?  I can't remember when there were previous Block a Vote, but does it have to be announced and selected BEFORE the voting process begins?  All I heard was "before you vote, announce whose vote you will block".  Is the "you" supposed to be you the holder of the advantage, or you the tribe?  If it's the former, couldn't Elaine have announced in the booth that she was blocking Jason's vote and then his vote wouldn't count?

Agreed.  I don't care how good Rob is at construction, he still needs people to help out.  Especially with this structure that is multiple levels?  Would need someone to help holding the bamboo in place at the very least and I don't see Sandra doing anything.  Production built this and he tinkered with it just for show.

I think she probably could have blocked his vote privately in the booth, but I sure LOVED that she made the announcement at tribal instead.  That was some good television.

I think maybe Rob was involved with building the structure at IoI, but he probably had a group of PAs helping him.  Who knows what the PAs have to entertain themselves with during all the downtime they must have.

[Bryce Lynch]

18 minutes ago, princelina said:

IN a previous season there was an advantage hidden on a raft under a bench which the person who was chosen to sit out could have found but didn't, and I think someone else may have found it.  I think the person chosen to sit out who didn't find it was Mikaela (? Young black woman with long braids) although she may have been the one who found it - she was definitely involved in the transaction.  Someone with a better memory than me (which is most of you) might be able to flesh this out 😄 

Yes, Michaela (one of my all time favorites) was on the sit out bench and didn't notice the "secret advantage" that was under her seat, probably partly because she was pissed off for not being in the challenge. 

Sarah noticed it, and grabbed it as the players were swimming off after the challenge.    It was a steal-a-vote.   

[Jeanne222]

4 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I have a habit here out west of reading spoilers before Survivor comes on, so I know before the episode starts who's going home.

Last night I read that "Jason" was a goner.  Could not for the life of me remember who "Jason" was.  I asked Mr. AZC if he wanted to know who was going to be voted out.  Yep.  I said, "It's Jason."  He looked at me and said "Who's Jason?"

Anyway, I think tribal was a lot more fun, knowing the outcome in advance.  Seeing the arrogance turn to terror was awesome.

Way to go, Elaine!!!

A little off subject but I sometimes read the last chapter in a who done it book!!!  Makes for very interesting reading!

[TresGatos]

I swear, as God as my witness, before last night's episode it was called a "do-rag_ because it was something you wore to protect your (hair) 'do. Silly me.

I almost turned the channel for good when I saw the chickens. It's not like the old Survivor when they got so hungry they would eat roasted rat. Now they are practically an Appleby's commercial.

I like Elaine. She reminds me of a player from Big Brother, Sam, except Sam could be creepily crazy at times while Elaine's personality reminds me more of Food Network "personality" Jason Smith. 

[simplyme]

13 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Then he lectured Jack about how "privileged" he was because he was straight, male and white and rambled on about "pillars of identity".  (Race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc.). 

One other thing I've kept in mind is that we saw what appeared to be quite a lengthy conversation distilled down to a few soundbytes by the Editing Monkeys for whatever purpose (Be Inspirational! or whatever) they had in mind. God knows what all both Jack and Jamal had to say. Both appeared to really enjoy the conversation and appear both moved and somewhat intellectually invigorated by it, so as far as I'm concerned, sounds like it went ok.

[Special K]

I am charmed by Elaine.  She falls in the category of smart Survivor players from the south making damn fools of the others who assume they are dumb.  Nick falls into this category and he took it all the way to the million dollars.  I don't even care if she's playing it up, since they (Lauren, ahem) are eating it up with a fork and knife. 

Donathan, alas, does not fall into this category.

[Bad Example]

5 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

did I fast forward past a part where they explained the rules on the hidden advantage? It implied she had to find it without her tribe seeing her.

Hubby and I actually talked about this at the time.  From everything that we heard (and God knows I miss things, so take this with a grain of salt), Elaine just needed to get it.  Nothing ever said it had to be secret.  My thought at the time was "so what if she's caught, she can just brazen it out, right?" 

[Bryce Lynch]

It was nice to see 2 IOTI vets, Elizabeth and Elaine, finally discuss Rob and Sandra.  

I wonder if either of them spoke to any other tribe members about it.   I would think sharing their experiences on IOTI would have been a good way for them to solidify their bonds with Missy and Aaron.  Though, I guess Elizabeth already lied to them about it, so that might be a problem.   

[Rachel RSL]

54 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Wasn't there a "clue in the bottle of soda" that someone recently missed?  Didn't see it at all and someone else later got the bottle and got the clue?  Or am I making this up?

This sounded so familiar but I couldn't remember it either so I relied on my old friend Google.  It happened in Worlds Apart.  According to the article I found:

Quote

During the fun reward trip, lucky Joe noticed an Immunity clue in Carolyn’s soda bottle – as she drank from it! Ever so sly, Joe convinced Carol to give him the rest of the soda because he was still thirsty. Clueless Carol offered him her half-empty bottle. But as Joe drank the soda in order to half-way swallow the clue, rival Tyler caught him. Back on the beach, Joe and Tyler searched for the Immunity idol, but suspicious Mike followed them. Cornering Tyler, Mike was given the Immunity clue! D’oh!

Edited October 31, 2019 by Rachel RSL

[Charlesman]

If Jason's EW interview is accurate, it seems the original plan was to split the old Lairos: get Aaron and Missy to flip and vote Elaine, have Elaine and Elizabeth vote for one of them, then, the original Vokai's would all vote for Aaron. They didn't trust him and would have preferred to keep Elaine in the game, with the bonus of having Elaine mad at Missy and potentially willing to come to their side.

That's why there was so much whispering after the Block-A-Vote, they weren't sure if they'd have the numbers (though, they could have!) and decided to just go along with the "fake" plan of voting off Elaine. If they trusted both Aaron and Missy to flip, though, they could have still gone through with the Aaron vote. 

[Bryce Lynch]

26 minutes ago, simplyme said:

One other thing I've kept in mind is that we saw what appeared to be quite a lengthy conversation distilled down to a few soundbytes by the Editing Monkeys for whatever purpose (Be Inspirational! or whatever) they had in mind. God knows what all both Jack and Jamal had to say. Both appeared to really enjoy the conversation and appear both moved and somewhat intellectually invigorated by it, so as far as I'm concerned, sounds like it went ok.

Fair point.  That said, just because the two were agreeable doesn't mean what was said makes sense or shouldn't bother anyone else.

[lilabennet]

19 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

If Jason's EW interview is accurate, it seems the original plan was to split the old Lairos: get Aaron and Missy to flip and vote Elaine, have Elaine and Elizabeth vote for one of them, then, the original Vokai's would all vote for Aaron. They didn't trust him and would have preferred to keep Elaine in the game, with the bonus of having Elaine mad at Missy and potentially willing to come to their side.

That's why there was so much whispering after the Block-A-Vote, they weren't sure if they'd have the numbers (though, they could have!) and decided to just go along with the "fake" plan of voting off Elaine. If they trusted both Aaron and Missy to flip, though, they could have still gone through with the Aaron vote. 

This just makes it even more stupid/hypocritical for all of them to be so damn mad at Aaron and Missy for sticking with their original tribe.

[Special K]

10 minutes ago, lilabennet said:

This just makes it even more stupid/hypocritical for all of them to be so damn mad at Aaron and Missy for sticking with their original tribe.

Or perhaps it explains why Tommy's Death Stare looked so idiotic.  Bad acting.

[nlkm9]

18 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Unpopular opinion, but I thought Jamal was a total ass with Jack.

First of all, I don't associate durags with thugs.  My best friend and college roommate wore a durag at night and around the dorms and was anything but a thug.

Then Jack apologized immediately and profusely, but instead of being a man and accepting his apology, Jamal the Victim had to rake him over the coals for hours.  

Jamal's whole identity seems to be wrapped up in seeing himself as a victim.  He has an Ivy League education and a good job, but he is still a "victim" and people who don't have anywhere near what he has are "privileged".

He had the same victim mentality when he was left out of his tribe's blindside.  Instead of looking to mend fences, he had the "their all dead to me" mentality.  He makes me sad, because no matter how much he achieves and obtains, he will always be miserable and think of himself as a victim.  He will spend his life searching for any perceived slight to fuel his misery.

I thought it was a bit over the top. But Jack did a good job groveling his way out of it. but seriously, there are many, many worse phrases he cold have said.

[Rachel RSL]

I did not see Jack grovelling nor did I see Jamal browbeating him. I saw two men having a civil, intelligent, open-minded conversation where nobody raised their voice, used aggressive language or got angry.  

[Fallacy]

Jack called Jamal’s buff a durag because Jamal is black. Plain and simple. Jamal calmly explained why that’s an issue, and Jack understood. I thought they both handled it beautifully. It’s a perfect example of the kind of stuff people of color experience all the time that white people will often claim is no big deal. I’m a white person so I acknowledge that I don’t get to tell a person of color what is and what is not offensive.

[Bryce Lynch]

23 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I did not see Jack grovelling nor did I see Jamal browbeating him. I saw two men having a civil, intelligent, open-minded conversation where nobody raised their voice, used aggressive language or got angry.  

I saw Jamal being very condescending and judgmental.   Whether Jack was buying Jamal's nonsense, or just groveling to save his place in the game and avoid the risk of being "cancelled" over a meaningless. offhand remark, (or some combination), I cannot tell.  I do think he felt bad for saying something that bothered Jamal, regardless of its intent or whether Jamal was reasonable in taking such offense.   Jack, seems like a genuinely nice guy, who doesn't want to offend anyone.   

All the "privilege" stuff is very offensive to me.  Many white, straight males are far less privileged than many black, lesbian, women, and every other category the Jamals of the world want to place people in.   The type of generalizations that are made with Jamal's intersectionality mumbo jumbo are just a divisive and inaccurate as any other racial, ethnic, gender and religious stereotypes.   We should be trying to get away from things, IMO. 

[nlkm9]

23 minutes ago, Fallacy said:

Jack called Jamal’s buff a durag because Jamal is black. Plain and simple. Jamal calmly explained why that’s an issue, and Jack understood. I thought they both handled it beautifully. It’s a perfect example of the kind of stuff people of color experience all the time that white people will often claim is no big deal. I’m a white person so I acknowledge that I don’t get to tell a person of color what is and what is not offensive.

See i was surprised because i have only heard the term doorag used to describe “ rednecks” or “ hillbillies”. Never have I heard it used to describe a person of color. That’s why that surprised me. 

[RoxiP]

I was talking to a friend of mine from California today and we discussed this and it was a "black" thing in the area where she grew up...in Dallas where I grew up it was more of a biker thing.  She understood immediately why Jamal was offended whereas I really didn't get it.  I guess it all depends on where you grew up as to the application of the terminology at times.  I think Jamal handled it well.