S09.E14: The Forever Decision

[Neurochick]

I was on Twitter during this show.  Though most thought Matt was an asshole, a lot of women said they still thought he was fine, so there is that. 

I think the show has issues. One is, "is this a show or an experiment?" 

I can see them getting say, 100 women and 25 men.  Also, this is a show, not an experiment, not a serious look into arranged marriage, a REALITY SHOW, just like Housewives; it's Lifetime, not PBS.  That means they want people who look good on camera, no obese people, no people who have physical or mental issues (documented)who will want to be filmed for 8 weeks or more.  Most people probably wouldn't want to do all that.  So the actual pool of applicants is probably very small, also human behavior is not predictable.  People lie all the time, on resumes, on dating site and apps, etc.  

I realized something about Matt, he treated this whole "experiment" like the reality show it was and that was VERY unfair to Amber and the others who took it seriously.  I would not be surprised if Matt lied about his family, maybe his family just didn't know he was on the show and see, I said "show" not "experiment."

Why was Matt there?  I think to gain some type of fame.  It used to be you had to be good at something to be famous, now it's about exposure.   People come on reality TV to get that exposure, they don't care if it's good or bad, they want to be seen.  I am certain that Matt probably has a lot of women interested in him (yuk).  Didn't he say that he's already moved on?  😡 

I'd never come on a show like this because to me, it's nothing more than entertainment and on these shows the participants are nothing more than fodder.  

And I'm just as bad as the producers because I'm watching.

ETA:  I think Jamie and Elizabeth are an example of "there's a lid for every pot."  

Iris' issue wasn't that she was a virgin, it was that she was emotionally immature.   I wouldn't be surprised if her family kept her that way, you'd be surprised at the shit people tell their daughters to keep them from running the streets.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Neurochick

[psychoticstate]

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Well I don't agree and I've already said Keith didn't want to continue being married to her because he felt she was too immature for him.  And I think he was right, and not just a guy that didn't find a woman "his type" and was BSing about why he wasn't interested in staying married.  He had already given his concerns in talking heads and on decision day he was trying to be diplomatic and not hurt her by being too specific.  If he just came out with his real reasons it would be hurtful to her and so he put them in very general terms by saying "they were in different places right now" instead of saying she's too immature.  That's because he's actually thinking about her feelings, not trying to hide his.  He also didn't want to spew a load of BS the way Matt did either, and I admire him for that.  Plus I'm sure we didn't see all of what he said on decision day couch.  The show heavily edits those scenes.

I agree with you.  I think Keith was attracted to Iris in the beginning; he said as much.  But I think her emotional level being at around 13 turned him off (and with good reason.)  I think Keith talking about her lack of relationship experience was his polite way of saying that she's immature and therefore not very deep.  I mean, I think it was bad enough that her big secret was swallowing a quarter as a kid but she completely shut down during the stupid games the "experts" made them play whenever something sexual or physical was mentioned.  That seems to me how a teen with no experience would react, not a grown adult.  Of course I also think it's mean for the "experts" to have them play a sex game when they know Iris is a virgin but she could have reacted to the "what's your favorite sexual position" with a "I don't know yet!" or something like that instead of shutting down and closing Keith off.  

I like Keith and I think he seems like a solid, decent guy but he doesn't know how to handle Iris, nor should he.  He signed up for MAFS, not therapy at first sight.

[psychoticstate]

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Whatever Matt was in it for it was obvious he was partly in it for the paycheck and the apartment.  Obviously he didn't have any other income or place to live at the time.  Plus I'd bet my bank account that he was actually going to say "yes" if Amber did.  The look on his face told me he was changing his answer from his internal "script".  This guy had the BS down so pat he would have fabricated any lie if it meant he got to continue cashing in on the show and not care one bit about how it might hurt Amber.  He wanted to continue to push the image of being in this for the right reasons even if it meant continuing the marriage and still running around behind Amber's back.  When he was being called on his behavior he reacted like either a sociopath or a psychopath.  He is even scarier than Jamie.  In fact, one of the scariest ever on this show.

Absolutely.  He needed money and a place to live.  I also think he might have thought this would be good, free advertising for his business.   I don't believe he went into it with the thought of having a real marriage from second one.  Maybe that's why his parents were not present nor had any part of this.  

The "experts" really need to talk to family members and/or friends and/or co-workers prior to making their selection for who's getting MAFS.  It's clearly too easy for people like Matt and Luke to charm them and slither their way into the show.  I know the "experts" say this is an experiment (which I detest) but people like Matt really destroy any kind of legitimacy this thing may have and make even more of a mockery of it.  

I'm actually surprised that none of the other guys said anything (at least that we saw) at that post-decision dinner.  They absolutely should have, although Elizabeth and Deonna were doing fine putting Matt on the spot.  Matt didn't even attempt to deny anything or say it was between him and Amber.  It was just "chapter closed."  

Amazing how Matt showed the most personality and emotion post-decision being cold to Amber.

Equally amazing that I woke up thinking about this mess.   

32 minutes ago, Meowwww said:

Me too.  Keith is allowed to make his own choice.  The experts were all disgusted at Keith for his choice.  That was so rude of them. 

Call me crazy, but I can see Big Red and Jamie making it work, and I might be kind of rooting for them. 

There is no "wrong" answer on decision day so the experts were out of line.  Especially when they were equally as disgusted with Keith as they were with lying, cheating Matt.  

[Empress1]

10 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

Damn! Amber was water cooler fodder in the teacher's lounge. Shameful shit. 

That must have been so humiliating. I suspect, however, that had things not been so public (and I mean at work, not on TV), Matt would have been able to charm her into staying. "I'm gonna miss that stupid head!" Why? For what? Miss what? He wasn't there!

If there is one thing I know about (straight) men, it's that when a man is acting like he doesn't care, it's because he doesn't care. Dassit! It's that simple. I learned that lesson the hard way and maybe Amber will too. Amber wanted Matt to care about her; he did not, and will not. She wanted him to be like "I'm so sorry I hurt you," and he just isn't that sorry because he doesn't care about her that much.

There's no way I'd have done that dinner if I were getting divorced. Awkward. What are they going to do, fire you? It doesn't seem like these people are genuinely friends, so I'd be like "no thanks" and go back to my home and get on with my life.

I only saw the decisions because I was flipping channels, but I'm team Good for Keith. Iris really is childish, and it's not even about sex (though now she'll have to explain to people that she's a divorced virgin, which probably won't help her in the dating pool). There's no way there's hope for them in the future so Iris, don't get your hopes up. He was just trying to be polite in the group. He just wasn't that into her, and she's kind of a mess. I think she'd be better suited dating someone she met at church who shares her religious beliefs.

9 hours ago, antfitz said:

sleaze balls and dating in bars. 

Dating in bars while single doesn't make you sleazy. Dating in bars WHILE MARRIED makes you sleazy. The show has recruited men from dating apps; I actually don't think it's that much of an issue if you're actively dating before you're cast on the show, as long as you STOP DATING once you're cast.

Really, I don't get why Matt couldn't just chill for two months. Two months is not a long time. Hell, they even gave them an out before that with that "recommitment" bullshit - why not say "I'm not feeling it" then? 

14 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

 I wouldn't be surprised if her family kept her that way, you'd be surprised at the shit people tell their daughters to keep them from running the streets.

Her mother was like, just fuck already (I'm paraphrasing), so I don't think her mother kept her too stunted! 

9 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

Of course I also think it's mean for the "experts" to have them play a sex game when they know Iris is a virgin but she could have reacted to the "what's your favorite sexual position" with a "I don't know yet!" or something like that instead of shutting down and closing Keith off.  

See, that's part of why I think Iris is immature. I saw the movie "Good Boys" recently, which is about three sixth-grade boys, and while there are a lot of sex jokes in the movie, the boys don't actually know anything about sex and they aren't very advanced sexually (the premise is that they're going to their first "kissing party" and don't know how to kiss). Iris reminded me of that when they were playing that game. Apparently she's had oral sex so she's not THAT inexperienced; she could have gone with that game a little more, and instead she was like "Ew!" (which ... I mean, if she's had mouth to genital contact, she doesn't really have a leg to stand on).

Keith will be fine. Iris has some growing up to do, I think.

[becauseIsaidso]

No surprise with the crazies, or Greg and Deonna (altho I think he's on the losing end of that one, but I'm hoping he's gotten to know her in positive ways that I just didn't pick up on), SO happy Amber kicked that asshat to the curb (sincerely wish I could have bitchslapped his nasty face when he was speaking so dismissively of her and his horrible behavior ) Keith is very wise in his decision, but not so much in how he replied to her whiney queries. But when she made the statement about Keith acknowledging there were things HE needed to learn it was crystal clear that Iris is spelled IIII ! He should have been really, really blunt or not made any further statement, and she needs to grow up. I hope she's one who reads boards like this one, but I'm afraid that even if she did, she'd dismiss any thing that didn't paint her as perfect. I've forgotten if they mentioned doing any follow up show, but I'm thinking that they will since it's pretty much the norm.

[EarllyBird]

3 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Why would Iris agree to this show if she’s already married to her virginity knowing that sex is an important part of marriage? Was she hoping for a career boost?

She was expecting someone compatible with her level of experience. He was expecting the same. I think she would have been more open to consummating their marriage if Keith had less experience and especially if he didn’t have a big box of empty condoms in his drawer.  That put her on her guard early on because of their disparity. 

[humbleopinion]

Matt: You were a POS from the beginning and exited a bigger POS.

You "acted" married for the ceremony +honeymoon but when Amber started making demands on her huzzy...you bolted and horn dogged in the neighborhood...scummy even for this show....

Amber: You are lousy at vetting men...let Red help you turn the men you date upside down and shake them..She is a good wing woman to have in your corner.

Keith: You managed to come out of this dumpster fire unscathed. Hope your music career takes off and you become a local celeb. Stay humble. Hug your mom for us.

Iris: Thank you for reawakening our love for lemonade.... Your virginity platform will be attractive to some religious groups.

Stop with the bitterness, defensiveness and blaming others...You are a pill.

Your rules for sinks, outside clothes and party food allotment are now MAFS lore.

Your mom is a gem.

Jamie: You are angry about more than just sex. Find out what it is.

You will have either a stroke or aneurysm from all the seething and pent up rage we can feel radiating out of you on teevee.

Rediscover socks...you do not pull off the look....

Bethie: You just want someone to love you as your are. Stop going to extreme behavior to try their patience to piss them off so they get fed up and leave. You force people to reject you because you do not think you can sustain a long relationship. Do not know if Jamie is your person but wish you happiness.

Greg: You were over qualified for this shit show.

Deonna: You have awesome friends and family.

Sandy joins Henry and Nellie as Fave MAFS Doggies.

[luvly]

"I's married."
"So Matt, like truly... how you doin?"

I know they're small things but these are the little bits of Deonna's personality that peek through that I wish they'd shown more of. I don't think she's nearly as cold as she seemed, nor is Greg nearly as needy/obedient, but their storyline had to be her walls so all the fun stuff got cut.

I can't stand Frankenstein editing. Amber's face was never shown during the part when she lists all of Matt's positives because she didn't say it during her deliberations ie. after she spilled the tea.  She said it earlier, when she wasn't crying, and they couldn't splice it in so they used a VO. I'm so curious as when she found out the full truth about Matt, especially when Raven really told her what he saw vs. the reenactment we got last week. In my experience, people go from denial and woe-is-me pity to anger when they realize the cheating is sexual and their SO could be putting their health at risk. Remember back when the experts visited and she told them Matt acts different when the cameras aren't around? His cold demeanor as the end backed that up in spades. Chapter closed, indeed.

Edited September 12, 2019 by luvly

[Hangin Out]

10 hours ago, Soup333 said:

I don’t think it was healthy for the divorcing couples to go to the dinner. It was too soon, on top of an already emotional day of packing and accepting the reality of their - or their partner’s decision. 

Especially Amber. Maybe it was cathartic for her to say what she wanted and hear the other ladies speak up to Matt but he didn’t care. At all. And I do feel like he was probably a totally different kind of ass off camera. She’d mentioned him being duplicitous and I believe her. His true self came out at the end when he tried to get her to shut up. 

By then, I was tired from yelling at the experts, so I didn’t pay too much attention to that party afterwards?  What was the purpose of that?  Nobody was going to come clean.  Was it just to insult the ones that said “no” to keeping the marriage? A stupid gimmick from the show.  I didn’t care for Matt, but at least he had the guts to just leave that fiasco.

One more suggestion.  Fire those “experts” for making faces and being unprofessional.  They looked more ridiculous than the contestants.

[Ohwell]

10 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Um...He basically admitted to being an unrepentant philanderer who had volunteered to be MAFS! And get paid!

 If ANYONE deserved to "be dumped on," it was duplicitous, hurtful Matt!

*swigs beer*

[answerphone]

Matt is such an immature a$&#hole. The producers shouldn't even give him a paycheck.

Iris needs Keith to improve in so many ways? Give me a break. He's so much more mature than she is.

[Stinamaia]

12 hours ago, PityFree said:

LOL. Keith just heard what Matt had done and the look of surprise on his face was priceless!

It was my favorite part. I rewound to see it again.  

[OnTime]

11 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Keith was being nice.  I don't see him "dating" Iris in the future

Oh, they tried that last season with Will and Jasmine.

Keith and Iris aren't going to be dating.....it is just a new spin!

[LennieBriscoe]

Yes, I'd like to know what Iris had in mind when she said that about Keith's needing improvement! He doesn't respond to "Heel" and "Beg"?

[OnTime]

Why do they call it "The Forever Decision"?

Does anyone really think Greg/Deonna and Jamie/Eliz will be together forever?

Edited September 13, 2019 by OnTime

[LilaFowler]

9 hours ago, BunnyAndIvy said:

I’ve read through most posts so far and I don’t think anyone has commented yet on how quickly and almost gleefully Matt took those pictures off the fridge and tossed them in the trash?! He has been an ass the whole time, but there was something about that that was just so incredibly cold and sociopathic. I get maybe tossing pictures after an ended relationship in private, but to do so without a shred of care in front of Amber who he knew had feelings for him was like twisting the knife in the wound.

I think he wanted her to have to dig them out of the trash and let's be real, she probably did. They're probably in a pink, heart-themed treasure box under Amber's bed right now.

[Lindz]

12 hours ago, sarkygal said:

Why are these frauds gurning & clapping like they didn’t just hear these idiots choose toxicity and dysfunction? 

SERIOUSLY?!! Like, you're happy a couple is staying together, even though a spouse is abusive?? SICK!! Now we know the truth. They really don't care if a marriage is fake or toxic, they won't do the right thing & suggest it end. Too bad we already knew that. They seriously need to interview exes & friends & ask what they would do if the marriage wasn't what they wanted. NO MORE ABUSERS!!

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Keith on the other hand. Did we ever see the real Keith? Like I said before, virginity never stopped any man. It stopped Keith because he didn't want her.

Iris's virginity isn't what stopped Keith. What stopped Keith was that Iris wouldn't consent to sex and he's not a rapist. I don't blame Keith for leaving. Right now he has a sexless marriage and no idea when/whether or not that will ever change. He doesn't want that and that's totally understandable. So he got out. More power to him. I do think he found Iris attractive - she is gorgeous - but that attraction doesn't count for anything if he can't act on it.

Quote

Does anyone really Greg/Deonna and Jamie/Eliz will be together forever?

I think Deonna and Greg could go the distance. There seems to be some genuine affection there, moving toward love, and they both seem to really value marriage and the commitment they made to one another and to God (their words - not mine). 

Quote

There's no way I'd have done that dinner if I were getting divorced. Awkward. What are they going to do, fire you?

I'm guessing there are some pretty significant financial penalties written in their contract for not participating in key activities. After all that went on during the 8 weeks, married or divorced, I'd be damn sure I was getting every penny of my paycheck.

[Brooklynista]

18 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

I think he wanted her to have to dig them out of the trash and let's be real, she probably did. They're probably in a pink, heart-themed treasure box under Amber's bed right now.

After Matt promptly throws the pics in the trash, Amber says something about his tossing the pics is how he treated their marriage. Umm, you just TOLD him to throw them out!  We already know he hurt you, no need to try to pad the list of offenses. 

And I would have dug them out of the trash too. The magnetic frames were cute 🤷‍♀️

[Lindz]

How UNCOMFORTABLE!! To have to face the spouse after deciding to divorce. 😨😨 I'd insist that be done SEPARATELY. I'm the type to cut someone off QUICK!! & never wanna see them again!! Oh Amber, you should've taken down those pics & BURNED them!! Take back your power girl!! You knew he didn't give af, so he wasn't being mean, he was actually being honest & real, FINALLY. He's as awful as Luke. Just saying bs lies, putting on a show for the cameras, which Keith did, also. These mofos must be unfamiliar with KARMA. Amber needs to conjure up a Color Purple curse. 😂 Even splitting up, she's kind & needy. Get some pride! Tell him he's trash & an embarrassment & he'll get what he deserves!

[Ohwell]

While Matt might have been contractually obligated to attend the last outing, I think he was expecting to be dumped on, especially by the women.  I liked the way he didn't get too defensive, just sat there chill and drank his beer and took the incoming fire--and then slow walked his ass outta there.   

I'd never want to date him but I liked him.

[Lindz]

Y'all see in the reunion preview, Iris had on her ring in her solo shot (ONLY)!! I thought that was Keith's new girlfriend, I didn't recognize her! 😂 Hate that stupid, child-like grin on his face, with his stupid braids. After the decision, he went out & used those 3 condoms. That's why he was late. 😂😂 BS liar. I knew he was gunna blindside her & hurt her... Then ask if she's ok. Bitch, you don't care! Fvck you! Fvck this! I NEVER wanna see your fvcking face again!! POS! She's too nice to him, being passive, like Amber. He's prolly the pathetic type to disappear on someone he's not into. Can't just be upfront to save his life. GTFOH

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Absolutely.  He needed money and a place to live.  I also think he might have thought this would be good, free advertising for his business.   I don't believe he went into it with the thought of having a real marriage from second one.  Maybe that's why his parents were not present nor had any part of this.  

The "experts" really need to talk to family members and/or friends and/or co-workers prior to making their selection for who's getting MAFS.  It's clearly too easy for people like Matt and Luke to charm them and slither their way into the show.  I know the "experts" say this is an experiment (which I detest) but people like Matt really destroy any kind of legitimacy this thing may have and make even more of a mockery of it.  

I'm actually surprised that none of the other guys said anything (at least that we saw) at that post-decision dinner.  They absolutely should have, although Elizabeth and Deonna were doing fine putting Matt on the spot.  Matt didn't even attempt to deny anything or say it was between him and Amber.  It was just "chapter closed."  

Amazing how Matt showed the most personality and emotion post-decision being cold to Amber.

Equally amazing that I woke up thinking about this mess.   

There is no "wrong" answer on decision day so the experts were out of line.  Especially when they were equally as disgusted with Keith as they were with lying, cheating Matt.  

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

That must have been so humiliating. I suspect, however, that had things not been so public (and I mean at work, not on TV), Matt would have been able to charm her into staying. "I'm gonna miss that stupid head!" Why? For what? Miss what? He wasn't there!

If there is one thing I know about (straight) men, it's that when a man is acting like he doesn't care, it's because he doesn't care. Dassit! It's that simple. I learned that lesson the hard way and maybe Amber will too. Amber wanted Matt to care about her; he did not, and will not. She wanted him to be like "I'm so sorry I hurt you," and he just isn't that sorry because he doesn't care about her that much.

There's no way I'd have done that dinner if I were getting divorced. Awkward. What are they going to do, fire you? It doesn't seem like these people are genuinely friends, so I'd be like "no thanks" and go back to my home and get on with my life.

I only saw the decisions because I was flipping channels, but I'm team Good for Keith. Iris really is childish, and it's not even about sex (though now she'll have to explain to people that she's a divorced virgin, which probably won't help her in the dating pool). There's no way there's hope for them in the future so Iris, don't get your hopes up. He was just trying to be polite in the group. He just wasn't that into her, and she's kind of a mess. I think she'd be better suited dating someone she met at church who shares her religious beliefs.

Dating in bars while single doesn't make you sleazy. Dating in bars WHILE MARRIED makes you sleazy. The show has recruited men from dating apps; I actually don't think it's that much of an issue if you're actively dating before you're cast on the show, as long as you STOP DATING once you're cast.

Really, I don't get why Matt couldn't just chill for two months. Two months is not a long time. Hell, they even gave them an out before that with that "recommitment" bullshit - why not say "I'm not feeling it" then? 

Her mother was like, just fuck already (I'm paraphrasing), so I don't think her mother kept her too stunted! 

See, that's part of why I think Iris is immature. I saw the movie "Good Boys" recently, which is about three sixth-grade boys, and while there are a lot of sex jokes in the movie, the boys don't actually know anything about sex and they aren't very advanced sexually (the premise is that they're going to their first "kissing party" and don't know how to kiss). Iris reminded me of that when they were playing that game. Apparently she's had oral sex so she's not THAT inexperienced; she could have gone with that game a little more, and instead she was like "Ew!" (which ... I mean, if she's had mouth to genital contact, she doesn't really have a leg to stand on).

Keith will be fine. Iris has some growing up to do, I think.

If Keith wanted Iris he would have stayed with her. He does not want her and never will and getting a divorce was the right thing to do.

I think Iris was handling the divorce well because she still had some hope of a future relationship. Keith ain’t gonna be calling and you two were a bad match. It must be hard for her to lose all that fineness but they were not good for each other. She has to move on to be healthy. She was confused because unlike the other train wrecks, they seemed to get along week on the surface. A lot of marriages actually end with a whimper not a bang.

[Lily247]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Why was Matt there?  I think to gain some type of fame.  It used to be you had to be good at something to be famous, now it's about exposure.   People come on reality TV to get that exposure, they don't care if it's good or bad, they want to be seen.  I am certain that Matt probably has a lot of women interested in him (yuk).  Didn't he say that he's already moved on?  😡 

I think a producer sought him out, thought he would make good TV because he is super tall and an athlete, either from a dating app or his Facebook, and recruited him, and he thought "Ehh why not". He never took this experiment seriously and probably thought he would get to bang some chick a few times and move on. Which is exactly what he did. I don't see him auditioning to be on this show as he had no motivation to be married at this time anyways.  

Edited September 12, 2019 by Lily247

[Lily247]

I also think, that despite all the fakery on this show, something is ver  clear: a lot of women dont understand men very well. 

You DONT give up the  cookies on day 2 of meeting a guy, regardless what a piece of paper says he is to you. 

If he stays out every night...... he is just not into you. 

He doesn't want to tell you to your face that he wants to break up. Instead, he will ghost or avoid you. 

Give him space. 

Sometimes, just STFU. 

[topanga]

11 hours ago, kerrieway said:

Iris is no prize but at least she was honest, annoying but honest. 

Keith on the other hand. Did we ever see the real Keith? Like I said before, virginity never stopped any man. It stopped Keith because he didn't want her. Though Iris is arguably pretty, I don't think she was ever physically his type and once he got to know her it was clear to him and the rest of us that it was a personality mismatch. 

What I don't like is the fact that Keith he uses a lot of words to explain away why he wants a divorce when the truth is simple---he's just not into her. Blaming Iris' lack of relationship experience doesn't ring true IMO, there have been plenty of people that didn't have a long dating history who had successful relationships, also blaming her emotional immaturity (yes this is true, she does act like a big overgrown kid) but why isn't Keith straightforward, is he auditioning for something I don't know about. Why not say, "Iris we're incompatible, I'm more calm, reflective and reserved and you're so high energy and reactive, I've thought a lot about it and that's not something I want to change about myself or want you to change. We are who we are, but that's not going to fit into my vision of what I want a marriage to look like."

But that would involve Keith having a spine and admitting he had a preference without waffling like he always does. 

But he's so politician-like in his way of speaking and acting that he comes off as really fake. 

Thank you for putting the breaks on the Iris bashing. 

I agree with your entire post. Iris could be annoying, and she had serious sexual issues. But that's what they are--issues. I didn't see her ever using sex or her virginity as a bargaining tool with Keith. She was obviously into him and wanted to stay married to him. But I don't think Iris knows how to have a relationship. 

I think she's afraid to have sex, and she needs serious therapy to explore this. I'm surprised the "experts" never saw this--or never commented on it.

No, it's not Keith's job to wait around till Iris figures herself out, but thank you for reiterating that Keith was not perfect. He wasn't open with Iris ,and he didn't communicate well. 

In fact, his BS level almost matches Matt's. For him to sit on the Decision Day couch and say he's 100% attracted to Iris, he admires her, he's learned from her, she's made him a better person---but he wants to get a divorce because she's immature? That whole conversation reeked of his need to be the "nice guy." A politician, indeed. 

I'm not saying he should've stayed with Iris if that's not what he wanted. But he could have been honest and told her the real reasons why. 

Example from earlier in the season: her deep dark secret was swallowing a quarter. I thought it was dumb. Keith thought it was dumb. We all thought it was dumb. But did Keith ever say, "that's not really a secret? Tell me a real secret." " No, he did not. He rolled over and went to bed. He was pissed off, but he never told Iris.  So she had no idea.   But she sure did let loose in his talking head interview. Why the double-speak? 

[psychoticstate]

30 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

While Matt might have been contractually obligated to attend the last outing, I think he was expecting to be dumped on, especially by the women.  I liked the way he didn't get too defensive, just sat there chill and drank his beer and took the incoming fire--and then slow walked his ass outta there.   

I'd never want to date him but I liked him.

What did you like about him?  I'm being sincere.  I don't think he revealed much about himself.  He didn't seem to be passionate or interested in anything, other than going out without Amber.  

Of course maybe I'm biased because I didn't perceive him as sitting there chill.  I perceived his true uncaring, inability to bond self coming out.  He deserved that incoming fire and then some.

Does anyone know what their contracts say?  I have to wonder if MAFS can refuse to pay up if a participant is proven to be fraudulent or deceitful and in breach of their contract if they don't even give it the old college try.  I mean, it wasn't even 8 full weeks that Matt couldn't keep it in his pants.  The first week was the marriage and honeymoon.  

Since I don't think he was there for the right and honest reasons, I have to question whether he had another woman on the side all along or was just going out and finding random hookups.

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

The "experts" really need to talk to family members and/or friends and/or co-workers prior to making their selection for who's getting MAFS.  It's clearly too easy for people like Matt and Luke to charm them and slither their way into the show.  I know the "experts" say this is an experiment (which I detest) but people like Matt really destroy any kind of legitimacy this thing may have and make even more of a mockery of it.  

True, but this is an entertainment show, not a serious experiment.  It has no legitimacy, no matter what the show tries to tell you.  The "experts" will do no such thing.  This show is all about drama, like The Bachelor or the dating shows on VH1 and MTV.

[psychoticstate]

10 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

True, but this is an entertainment show, not a serious experiment.  It has no legitimacy, no matter what the show tries to tell you.  The "experts" will do no such thing.  This show is all about drama, like The Bachelor or the dating shows on VH1 and MTV.

This show reinforces my decision to stay divorced and unmarried.  

[topanga]

40 minutes ago, Lindz said:

Y'all see in the reunion preview, Iris had on her ring in her solo shot (ONLY)!! I thought that was Keith's new girlfriend, I didn't recognize her! 😂 Hate that stupid, child-like grin on his face, with his stupid braids. After the decision, he went out & used those 3 condoms. That's why he was late. 😂😂 BS liar. I knew he was gunna blindside her & hurt her... Then ask if she's ok. Bitch, you don't care! Fvck you! Fvck this! I NEVER wanna see your fvcking face again!! POS! She's too nice to him, being passive, like Amber. He's prolly the pathetic type to disappear on someone he's not into. Can't just be upfront to save his life. GTFOH

Keith certainly had the right to ask for a divorce if that's what he felt in his heart. 

But, as you stated so eloquently, you don't get to keep asking the woman you just dumped if she's okay. Especially knowing she wanted to stay married. Repeatedly asking her. Seriously? Who does that? You're not being a nice guy--you're pouring salt on her wounds. Of course Iris is not okay. 

Yes, Keith seems like the type who would ghost a woman in a minute. All while pretending with her that everything was fine.

6 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

True, but this is an entertainment show, not a serious experiment.  It has no legitimacy, no matter what the show tries to tell you.  The "experts" will do no such thing.  This show is all about drama, like The Bachelor or the dating shows on VH1 and MTV.

You are so right. And I don't know why I let myself get so emotionally invested in this show, especially when it comes to the experts. They really don't do anything helpful. The producers want to see drama and train wrecks because they know it's what we want to see. 

I wonder if the experts ever talk to the spouses off-camera to suggest therapy? I think everyone this season except Greg would benefit from a good therapist. I'm not saying Greg is perfect, but he did go to therapy in the past, and it helped him work through his major issues.  He and Deonna might need some couples' therapy in the future, but that's another story.  Even seemingly well-adjusted Keith would benefit from therapy, but I doubt he would go. And I know Matt wouldn't. He thinks Devon is his therapist. 

I did love the looks on the experts' faces when Beth and Jamie both decided to stay married. They were all like, TF??  LOL. Seriously, it took a minute before they were able to smile and go into celebration mode. 

[topanga]

2 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

This show reinforces my decision to stay divorced and unmarried.  

Aww, psychoticstate, this show isn't real! If you ever sought the services of a professional matchmaker (or simply picked up a hot chick/dude), I'm sure you'd be more self-aware than these couples. No one would be trying to incite drama between the two of you for ratings, and if you needed help, I hope you'd find someone more competent than these quacks they call experts. Don't swear off love...

[OnTime]

1 hour ago, Brooklynista said:

After Matt promptly throws the pics in the trash, Amber says something about his tossing the pics is how he treated their marriage. Umm, you just TOLD him to throw them out! 

Why not just leave the pics on the fridge and let the cleaning crew handle it?

[Soup333]

16 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

True, but this is an entertainment show, not a serious experiment.  It has no legitimacy, no matter what the show tries to tell you.  The "experts" will do no such thing.  This show is all about drama, like The Bachelor or the dating shows on VH1 and MTV.

I think Matt went in with this mindset. He probably spent a lot of time looking at Amber and thinking, wow she’s actually taking this serious. Lolz. 

[Spectator]

I got to thinking...why do these experts do their home visits during the selection process since it seems pretty clear that nothing they find, no matter how concerning it might be, is a deal breaker???

First, that guy from a few seasons ago who had a pair a women’s shoes in his trunk (he ended up be a cheater...shocker).

Now we have Matt, who had his commitment-phobic, nomadic lifestyle on full display in his “room” (that’s right...he didn’t even have a place he called his own). Could the experts really be all that surprised that a guy who has essentially lived in hotels or couch surfed for the last 5 years might not be ready to commit to a marriage? I also thought they looked for family and friend photos on those visits. He had none (he had no relationship with his family whatsoever). No red flags there either experts???

So my question is, if none if these things were red flags for the experts, then what would have been?? If the answer is nothing, then why even bother?

[OnTime]

3 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

attraction doesn't count for anything if he can't act on it.

Quote

Does anyone really Greg/Deonna and Jamie/Eliz will be together forever?

I think Deonna and Greg could go the distance. There seems to be some genuine affection there, moving toward love, and they both seem to really value marriage and the commitment they made to one another and to God (their words - not mine). 

Well, Deonna will now be in Greg's house with the deck, sun porch and, we must not forget, two ovens!!!

Edited September 12, 2019 by OnTime

[Ohwell]

42 minutes ago, topanga said:

In fact, his BS level almost matches Matt's. For him to sit on the Decision Day couch and say he's 100% attracted to Iris, he admires her, he's learned from her, she's made him a better person---but he wants to get a divorce because she's immature? That whole conversation reeked of his need to be the "nice guy." A politician, indeed. 

Uhhhh yeah, I have to agree with this.  I think Keith was being too diplomatic and for a minute there my mouth was screwed up because I thought he was going to say he wanted to stay married.  So I could see how Iris would have been blindsided when he said he didn't.  He didn't have to lay the "praise" on so thick.

[Lindz]

14 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I can't stand listening to Matt's BS.

He prolly can't either. He.must think he's actually believable. 😂

[StatisticalOutlier]

14 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

Damn. A divorced virgin. How will Iris work that into her Match.com profile?

I'm thinking of an asterisk, like for the major league baseball hitting records by players who were taking steroids.  Just make it virgin*.  Then everybody knows it's an "everything but" situation, and the playing field is level.

13 hours ago, antfitz said:

 I feel sorry for her. She's been brought up to be super religious and yet went into this situation.  She was not going to give it up in only 8 weeks. I think he was smart not to stay Married. 

I wonder how long she was with guys before engaging in oral sex.  If it was 6 weeks, then I could see Keith being aggrieved.

10 hours ago, For Cereals said:

Can they get an annulment?

No.

13 hours ago, Auntie said:

Ooooh, one more  - sorry, can't get enough of Iris bashing....

"I and Keith are getting divorced."  

You forgot "I think we have came a long way since wedding day" and "Me and Keith are very compatible." 

Edited September 12, 2019 by StatisticalOutlier

[Lindz]

10 minutes ago, OnTime said:

Why not just leave the pics on the fridge and let the cleaning crew handle it?

She was tryna act all strong & also see if he cared AT ALL about their marriage. Then just got more hurt & more confirmation that he's TRASH!

[topanga]

1 minute ago, Lindz said:

He prolly can't either. He.must think he's actually believable. 😂

Someone up thread questioned whether Matt is a sociopath. My first thought was no, but then I read about some of these traits and went, Hmmm...

• Glibness and Superficial Charm.
• Manipulative and Conning. They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. ...
• Grandiose Sense of Self. ...
• Pathological Lying. ...
• Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt. ...
• Shallow Emotions. ...
• Incapacity for Love.
• Need for Stimulation.
• Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
• Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
  Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

--Matt doesn't seem violent. But not all sociopaths are violent. 

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Lily247 said:

I think a producer sought him out, thought he would make good TV because he is super tall and an athlete, either from a dating app or his Facebook, and recruited him, and he thought "Ehh why not". He never took this experiment seriously and probably thought he would get to bang some chick a few times and move on. Which is exactly what he did. I don't see him auditioning to be on this show as he had no motivation to be married at this time anyways.  

That is probably why he never involved his family.

1 hour ago, Lily247 said:

I also think, that despite all the fakery on this show, something is ver  clear: a lot of women dont understand men very well. 

You DONT give up the  cookies on day 2 of meeting a guy, regardless what a piece of paper says he is to you. 

If he stays out every night...... he is just not into you. 

He doesn't want to tell you to your face that he wants to break up. Instead, he will ghost or avoid you. 

Give him space. 

Sometimes, just STFU. 

1 hour ago, topanga said:

Thank you for putting the breaks on the Iris bashing. 

I agree with your entire post. Iris could be annoying, and she had serious sexual issues. But that's what they are--issues. I didn't see her ever using sex or her virginity as a bargaining tool with Keith. She was obviously into him and wanted to stay married to him. But I don't think Iris knows how to have a relationship. 

I think she's afraid to have sex, and she needs serious therapy to explore this. I'm surprised the "experts" never saw this--or never commented on it.

No, it's not Keith's job to wait around till Iris figures herself out, but thank you for reiterating that Keith was not perfect. He wasn't open with Iris ,and he didn't communicate well. 

In fact, his BS level almost matches Matt's. For him to sit on the Decision Day couch and say he's 100% attracted to Iris, he admires her, he's learned from her, she's made him a better person---but he wants to get a divorce because she's immature? That whole conversation reeked of his need to be the "nice guy." A politician, indeed. 

I'm not saying he should've stayed with Iris if that's not what he wanted. But he could have been honest and told her the real reasons why. 

Example from earlier in the season: her deep dark secret was swallowing a quarter. I thought it was dumb. Keith thought it was dumb. We all thought it was dumb. But did Keith ever say, "that's not really a secret? Tell me a real secret." " No, he did not. He rolled over and went to bed. He was pissed off, but he never told Iris.  So she had no idea.   But she sure did let loose in his talking head interview. Why the double-speak? 

I think in our culture there is still a misogynistic mindset of women lose and men choose. If a man does not like a woman, it’s her fault for failing to keep him.

It is true Amber is clingy and Iris is annoying. However, even if they were perfect, those men, who have their own issues, will never want them. It is not the women’s fault.

Keith was never attracted to Iris. I think she never did it for him physically or emotionally. It was wrong of him to give her hope. In fact, Matt’s assholery was much more truthful.

Edited September 12, 2019 by qtpye

[Booger666]

I’m so glad Keith and Greg were good guys through the whole thing.  It was refreshing after the disgusting and reprehensible Luke.  

LOL’d at Cal’s voice over at the end that the couples have the tools they need to be successful in marriage. Big Red and the human cue ball have no idea how to communicate in a healthy way. 

Loved Big Red being honest and direct with Matt about his bad behavior.  This is the first time I genuinely liked her.

I think Amber asked Matt about the photos because she was secretly hoping he would say “let’s each take one as a momento”.  She still is desperate for any attention or validation from him even knowing how awful he was to her.

Deonna looks so much happier than she did at the beginning. Looking forward to seeing her and Greg at the reunion.   They seem to bring out the best in each other.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Booger666

[Spectator]

Lucky for Deonna that Greg didn’t consider a lack of relationship inexperience to be a deal breaker like Keith did. 

(1) Deonna hadn't dated anyone for ten for ten years, (2) much like Iris, Deonna repeatedly struggled to open up when discussing deeper or more mature subjects (I’m equating iris’s quarter secret to Deonna’s spooning comment), and (3) it sure sounded like Deonna and Greg only had sex that one time on Greg’s birthday (even when Deonna talked with her friends she said “we did that and it was good”...not “we’re doing that” or “it is good”...she spoke about it in the past tense like it’s not an ongoing event - all I know is I would never refer to my sex life with my partner in the past tense). 

I’m very afraid that the difference in the sex drives between Deonna and Greg will become more of an issue as time passes. Lucky for Deonna, Greg is very committed and believes a higher power played a role in his match with Deonna. I think there’s very little that could have happened during the 8 weeks that would have driven Greg to ask for a divorce...I think he is one of the most committed participants to ever be on the show. But I just don’t envision having sex once every two months, if that’s what it ends up being, will cut it in the long run. Deonna’s theory that the infrequency will make it that much more mind blowing doesn’t hold true with most people. I don’t think they are compatible sexually, the same way Keith and iris weren’t. 

[Lindz]

15 hours ago, Mercolleen said:

The slow motion is absurd.

YESSSSSSS!! UNNECESSARY!! Overdid it, like the weddings. Plus the crazy music. Editing on acid. Just. No. 😂

[Stella Rose]

A few observations:   

Amber will never, ever attract or keep a decent guy until she fixes herself.  In my 20s I was Amber.  Abandonment issues, clingy, over-pleaser,  the whole 9.  I attracted (chose) men who were such losers that of course they could never leave me (no jobs, no family, no money, no prospects.).  If Amber had said yes, Matt probably would have stayed (and strayed).   I refuse to waste one more keystroke on that asshat.  Yuck.  He pretty much personifies 'douchebag'.

Keith was in a no win situation.  If he "took" I-I-Iris' virginity then left, he would be the heel of the century.  If he says no, then all he cares about is sex and he's a jerk.  I think he chose the best option for his future.  I wish him well, he seems like a decent guy.  A bit immature in his own way, but decent enough.

Jamie and Red - oi.   In some odd way I actually hope they make it.  Or at least they manage to not kill each other.  Maybe once the cameras are gone they can settle down.  Yeah, right.  ha ha.

Deonna and Greg - Happy for these two.  I actually think they have a really good chance and have built a pretty solid foundation.  They may be success couple #6 (or is it 7?)

[qtpye]

I also want to add the concept of sexual market value. In all the MAFS shows, if a spouse perceives that they can do better than the match is doomed Deonna might not love Greg but she understands he is a good man and she values that.

8 minutes ago, Spectator said:

Lucky for Deonna that Greg didn’t consider a lack of relationship inexperience to be a deal breaker like Keith did. 

(1) Deonna hadn't dated anyone for ten for ten years, (2) much like Iris, Deonna repeatedly struggled to open up when discussing deeper or more mature subjects (I’m equating iris’s quarter secret to Deonna’s spooning comment), and (3) it sure sounded like Deonna and Greg only had sex that one time on Greg’s birthday (even when Deonna talked with her friends she said “we did that and it was good”...not “we’re doing that” or “it is good”...she spoke about it in the past tense like it’s not an ongoing event - all I know is I would never refer to my sex life with my partner in the past tense). 

I’m very afraid that the difference in the sex drives between Deonna and Greg will become more of an issue as time passes. Lucky for Deonna, Greg is very committed and believes a higher power played a role in his match with Deonna. I think there’s very little that could have happened during the 8 weeks that would have driven Greg to ask for a divorce...I think he is one of the most committed participants to ever be on the show. But I just don’t envision having sex once every two months, if that’s what it ends up being, will cut it in the long run. Deonna’s theory that the infrequency will make it that much more mind blowing doesn’t hold true with most people. I don’t think they are compatible sexually, the same way Keith and iris weren’t. 

The difference is that Greg was attracted to D from the start. He put up with a lot of walls because he wanted the woman on the other side.

I could tell by the body language Iris was very attracted to Keith and it was not reciprocated. 

It kind of reminds me of Trey and Vanessa except Keith is much more gentlemanly than Trey ever was.

Iris could have jumped on the bed and screamed “Take me now” and he would not do it.

Jamie’s lust for Big Red is off the charts but he probably does not like much else about her.

[topanga]

5 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I could tell by the body language Iris was very attracted to Keith and it was not reciprocated. 

It kind of reminds me of Trey and Vanessa except Keith is much more gentlemanly than Trey ever was.

Iris could have jumped on the bed and screamed “Take me now” and he would not do it.

That might be true. So why would Keith tell Iris he was attracted to her and thought they were physically compatible? And then to tell the experts he was 100% attracted to Iris? 

That would make Keith a liar. 

[qtpye]

7 minutes ago, topanga said:

That might be true. So why would Keith tell Iris he was attracted to her and thought they were physically compatible? And then to tell the experts he was 100% attracted to Iris? 

That would make Keith a liar. 

He is a liar...but the lies were motivated by not wanting to hurt or humiliate her on tv. What he does not understand is that by lying about his true feelings, he actually her more.

He likes her in a baby sister type way and not like a man likes a wife.

Edited September 12, 2019 by qtpye

[MajorNelson]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Yeah, I forgot to mention the rigidity and OCD tendencies....Yikes.  I know, her mother seems so well adjusted and easygoing you'd almost never believe she raised Iris.  It makes me wonder if she became that way after attending a particularly strict religious school or something.  

Just to jump in with Iris background, Iris told Keith's Mom she was a virgin for religious reasons, but maybe even more important was her Dad...at the reception he was crying up a storm and couldn't even make it to the father-daughter dance.  He said over and over, that he had protected her all these years, and now he was having to turn over to another man for continued protection.  He couldn't deal with the reality of this "turn over" at all.

Seems to me that whatever rules she picked up from church the bigger influence was either strict Daddy or pleasing Daddy was the #1 principle in Iris' life.

[Lindz]

UGH! & Keith continued misleading Iris!! GROSS!! Be HONEST & stop torturing her!! Do these mofos NOT understand treating someone the way they'd want to be treated??!! 😒

Jamie: Any hope for the future or do you think it's just done?

Keith: I don't know what the future holds, I w/couldn't count it out.

STOP BSING!! Again. CAN'T be direct to save his life! Got Iris all confused & in a daze from shock. TERRIBLE!