S01.E14: The Great Unknown

[Kid]

9 hours ago, Mrs. Landingham said:

Daniel joins Liam and Jenny’s daughter on the list of “Offspring for Whom I Weep”. When Daniel told his mother he doesn’t like South Africa and wants to go home, Tiff basically told him to go eff himself because it’s all about Ronald. The more she nattered on and on in earlier episodes about how she’d come right home if Daniel hated S.A., the more it was plainly clear she was full of shit. That poor child ranks nowhere on her priority list. 

AMEN!!!!!  

Well, it is like the one character in Parenthood said, “You need a license to get a dog but anybody can have a kid.”

7 hours ago, RealReality said:

So......apparently Tiffany can't trust Ronald to have a credit card

.....but she can trust him to father a child.......

The reason is obvious. The credit card is more valuable to her than the child is. She’s proved that.   

[Hannah94]

2 minutes ago, steff13 said:

This breaks my heart, I'm so sorry.  I'm partial to the name Stephanie, too. 

My SIL didn't find out she was pregnant with my nephew until she was about 6 months along.  She was married to my brother and they already had an older child.  She didn't have regular periods, and didn't have any other symptoms until she went to the ER with really bad abdominal pain (turned out to be gallstones).  

I am friends with a couple who are ministers (captains) in the Salvation Army.  As part of their employment they have to have periodic physicals.  She went for her physical, and they noticed something "unusual" with her bloodwork.  They sent her for an ultra-sound, and she was 30 weeks pregnant.  She found out she was pregnant and the sex of the baby all in the same day.  If it hadn't been time for her physical, who knows when she would have realized?  He is their 6th child, so she was hardly a first-time mom. 

I think there are people who don't know because they don't want to know, and would rather just ignore it.  But I think not knowing for a long time is more common than people think.  

Wow, that's crazy! I find it mind boggling that in some cases, people know almost immediately (like Deaven knew within 2 weeks of having sex) and in other cases, people can carry to term (or close to it) without ever having an inkling or a symptom. The human body is so strange. 

[Spike]

6 hours ago, RealReality said:

How is it neither of them are working and their place looks like that?

For poor people they sure have a lot of stuff.  Looks like mostly clothes from Latrine’s internet catfishing days.

[Mr. Miner]

Skipper cockblocked! :-(

[Hannah94]

1 minute ago, Mr. Minor said:

Skipper cockblocked! 😞

Skipper has no problems talking openly in her TH about how Aladdin sucks in bed, yet almost every scene with them, she is asking for the jiggy jiggy. If it is THAT bad, why does she seem to be obsessed with it? I think she may be an idiot. 

[Hellohappylife]

Paul- Gave me the biggest laugh when he said “ You don’t see me talking to other girls”... Yes we know Paul, that’s why you have to sail the Amazon River for 5 days just to receive text message’s from a person sitting right next to you,because being married to someone you can’t even speak to is totally not a big deal

Tiffany- That whole relationship is fucked.All they are doing is “Playing house” once that new happy exciting honeymoon/ newly wed /Baby phase fades away, they will be ripped apart from the stress of bringing a child into the world when they don’t even have their shit together. She’ll be back in the US alone,with another baby. 

Laura- seriously? you just got to his parents house and already the first thing you want to do is Jiggy Jiggy? Maybe it’s just me but Whenever My husband and I go to visit his Parents for a weekend the last thing on my mind is sex. There is nothing arousing about sex in your In-Laws house. 

Deavan- Why take that poor newborn on a freaking plane, trapped in a flying tube of germs for over 20+ hours? Why did daddy have to check her in for her flight!?! Also WTF was with her goodbye scene to Drucilla? She said goodbye to her like she was going off to work and would be home in 8 hours. 

Why is jihoon suppose to be the only one saving money? When she claims to be “leaving a good job”  

Edited August 28, 2019 by Hellohappylife

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

For poor people they sure have a lot of stuff.  Looks like mostly clothes from Latrine’s internet catfishing days.

I was thinking the same thing!

Also, how would they know if they were robbed or ransacked? That apartment would look the same!

[Spike]

8 minutes ago, Hellohappylife said:

Laura- seriously? you just got to his parents house and your already the first thing you want to do is Jiggy Jiggy? Maybe it’s just me but Whenever My husband and I go to visit his Parents for a weekend the last thing on my mind is sex. There is nothing arousing about sex n your In-Laws house. 

Especially when the family appears to still be mourning the loss of his sister.  Her comments about how dumpy Tunisia is were crass as well.  If Florida is so great, stay there.

[RealReality]

3 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I was thinking the same thing!

Also, how would they know if they were robbed or ransacked? That apartment would look the same!

It would be far cleaner 🤣

[RealReality]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

Especially when the family appears to still be mourning the loss of his sister.  Her comments about how dumpy Tunisia is were crass as well.  If Florida is so great, stay there.

Yeah I didn't like that either.  It's the sort of casual superiority that isn't necessary.  The kind of superiority that makes her think that it's cool to disrespect a culture because America is #1, so she should always be wearing whatever she wants and breaking the rules she doesn't like.

[Mr. Miner]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

For poor people they sure have a lot of stuff.  Looks like mostly clothes from Latrine’s internet catfishing days.

Latrine! lol!

[Crazydoxielady]

Daniels teeth are too big for his head. There I said it. That said I feel so bad for the kid. His dickmatized mum is never going to bring him home. I anticipate a world of hurt for both of them with gambling addict husband/stepdad.

[RealReality]

22 minutes ago, Crazydoxielady said:

Daniels teeth are too big for his head. There I said it. That said I feel so bad for the kid. His dickmatized mum is never going to bring him home. I anticipate a world of hurt for both of them with gambling addict husband/stepdad.

I wonder if they told Ronald's mom?  If so, I wonder if her reaction isn't shown because it was less than effusive.  She has really been through it with Ronald so if she is less than excited it's probably telling. 

But anyways....Tiffany is so ridiculous it hurts.  

I fully expect a volley of social media posts that either: a) angrily refers to "haters" who dare to judge her for her piss poor decision making, b) somehow try to drum up sympathy or c) suggest that any criticism of her is really criticism of Daniel and therefore unacceptable.

If there is a tell-all she will be salty and defensive as hell.  And she can kiss my entire ass.  Six weeks they have been married.....and they married less than a month after he was out of rehab.  

Her blowing off sage advice because "if we wait for the right time we will be waiting forever!" made me ragey. 

No one is saying she wait forever, but maybe wait until he has a job?  Maybe wait until she can see how he deals with the stress of the child she already has?  Maybe she wait longer than the time between hair colorings?  She barely waited longer than Paris Hilton was in jail!  GTFOH with that.  

If it weren't for her son, I'd love to watch her get fleeced by this hokey looking fuck. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by RealReality

[TMI]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

Yeah I didn't like that either.  It's the sort of casual superiority that isn't necessary.  The kind of superiority that makes her think that it's cool to disrespect a culture because America is #1, so she should always be wearing whatever she wants and breaking the rules she doesn't like.

Because it is LAURA'S WORLD

[A-Lo]

Was anyone else as shocked by the very calm demeanor Evelin affected when having that morning-after-the-hammock-night conversation?  Have we ever seen her so placid before?  And she agreed to block her ex on social media.  And told Corey she loves him and loves sleeping with him!  Who is this imposter and what has she done to the real Evelin?

[Dmarie019]

15 hours ago, athousandclowns said:

Karin  looks like she’s having a allergic reaction. I have never  seen a pregnant face like that. 

It's pretty common for women's faces to become bloated (? maybe there's a nicer term for that..)  I have a couple friends who it happens to. And they are generally skinny indivduals and watch what they eat. Usually happens very late into the pregnancy. 

[Maybeitsme]

2 hours ago, A-Lo said:

Was anyone else as shocked by the very calm demeanor Evelin affected when having that morning-after-the-hammock-night conversation?  Have we ever seen her so placid before?  And she agreed to block her ex on social media.  And told Corey she loves him and loves sleeping with him!  Who is this imposter and what has she done to the real Evelin?

I wondered about that too

She usually acts like she can barely stand to be in the same room and is surely and short with him. Then she acts like a real girlfriend with loving feelings and says sweet things and kisses him 

What happened 🤷‍♀️ I'm confused 

[magemaud]

1 hour ago, Maybeitsme said:

I wondered about that too

She usually acts like she can barely stand to be in the same room and is surely and short with him. Then she acts like a real girlfriend with loving feelings and says sweet things and kisses him 

What happened 🤷‍♀️ I'm confused 

Somebody better check the back room of the bar for a giant pod

[Chickabiddy]

1 hour ago, Maybeitsme said:

I wondered about that too

She usually acts like she can barely stand to be in the same room and is surely and short with him. Then she acts like a real girlfriend with loving feelings and says sweet things and kisses him 

What happened 🤷‍♀️ I'm confused 

Evelin is probably worried she overplayed her hand and pushed Corey too far. Gotta remember to play nice until she can harvest he last of his American dollars. 😉

And just s note that Laura’s pronunciation of Qatar and Cuht-er is actually correct. A past uni I worked for had a partnership with a school in Qatar and that’s how we learned to pronounce it.

I also think she is trying real hard to pronounce Aladdin the Arabic way. Years before that uni job, I worked with some Arabic linguists, and how they pronounced it was similar to Laura more so than how we say it in English. Not a speaker of Arabic, so don’t quote me, but I think she is trying ...a little bit. 😀

[Spike]

4 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

Evelin is probably worried she overplayed her hand and pushed Corey too far. Gotta remember to play nice until she can harvest he last of his American dollars. 😉

And just s note that Laura’s pronunciation of Qatar and Cuht-er is actually correct. A past uni I worked for had a partnership with a school in Qatar and that’s how we learned to pronounce it.

I also think she is trying real hard to pronounce Aladdin the Arabic way. Years before that uni job, I worked with some Arabic linguists, and how they pronounced it was similar to Laura more so than how we say it in English. Not a speaker of Arabic, so don’t quote me, but I think she is trying ...a little bit. 😀

I agree Laura is trying.

[b2H]

27 minutes ago, Spike said:

I agree Laura is trying

my patience.

Edited August 28, 2019 by b2H

[heatherchandler]

9 hours ago, Kid said:

AMEN!!!!!  

Well, it is like the one character in Parenthood said, “You need a license to get a dog but anybody can have a kid.”

The reason is obvious. The credit card is more valuable to her than the child is. She’s proved that.   

YES it was Keanu's character (Tod) who said it.

You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, or drive a car. Hell, you need a license to catch a fish! But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.

[Kid]

22 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

YES it was Keanu's character (Tod) who said it.

You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, or drive a car. Hell, you need a license to catch a fish! But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a father.

That’s it!!!   Certainly applies here.  

[Toodleoo]

On 8/27/2019 at 5:05 PM, Gobi said:

Looks like she's booked a flight on Delta Blow airlines.

The heat from this just singed off my eyebrows, holy shit

[Adultosaurus]

5 hours ago, Chickabiddy said:

I also think she is trying real hard to pronounce Aladdin the Arabic way. Years before that uni job, I worked with some Arabic linguists, and how they pronounced it was similar to Laura more so than how we say it in English. Not a speaker of Arabic, so don’t quote me, but I think she is trying ...a little bit. 😀

We only want it to be Aladdin like Disney - I work with an Aladdin and he pronounces it it Al-a-din just like Laura.

[iwasish]

I bet the Evelin/Corey scene wasn’t actually filmed the next day. I bet they had a cooling off period, made up, and then filmed the staged scene. 

[Spike]

23 minutes ago, iwasish said:

I bet the Evelin/Corey scene wasn’t actually filmed the next day. I bet they had a cooling off period, made up, and then filmed the staged scene. 

He did seem pretty well rested for someone who spent the night on a hammock.

[mittsigirl]

On 8/27/2019 at 2:02 AM, Gigglepuff said:

If he's Canadian, (I'm assuming so) he would have had a valid passport already. 

I am Canadian, and I don't have a passport ready to use. Am I missing something huge?! Really curious!

[Spike]

4 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

I am Canadian, and I don't have a passport ready to use. Am I missing something huge?! Really curious!

Because he is living in Florida.

[mittsigirl]

Just now, Spike said:

Because he is living in Florida.

Thanks, for some reason I thought he was still in Canada.

[doyouevengohere]

Pol/ Sluggie- She should have had the locks changed on the apt.  Where was her mom to throw him out??????  I want to feel sorry for Karine, but I don't- she saw what he was like AND her family told her  AND gave her a way out, but she just HAD to marry him and get knocked up by him.

Deavan- I actually liked her a lot in this episode- she spoke sense and her Dad seemed nice.  Also, it was daylight so Dracula was asleep instead of throwing bowls.

Laura and Aladdin- I liked him a lot in this episode too (what is happening to the world??????).  He seemed really nice and it was heartwarming to see his whole family love and accept Laura.  Too bad he gets in a snit with Liam next week.

Corey and the whore of Engabo- He stupid.

Cold Shoulder and Gambling Ron- Yes, lets add a baby to this mess!  Daniel's reaction was adorable however.  Also, her mom should take issue with that she's having a baby with this loser ; women have babies in SA everyday in hospitals and the US doesn't have that great of a rep for safe childbirth anyway.  At least she figured out she was pregnant before it crowned this time.  I didn't think they would do or be able to see the baby in an ultrasound before 10 weeks or so ; so I'm pretty sure she was preggers before the wedding.

[mamadrama]

Oddly enough, I'm starting to buy the Laura/Aladin relationship. In comparison to others like Mohammed, he seems to genuinely care about Laura, if not falling over himself with attraction. I'm guessing his endgame is to marry and then come over on a spousal visa, so he may be playing the long con, but after seeing her with his family it does feel like this may be one of the more genuine relationships. It's confusing the hell out of me. 

[renatae]

On 8/27/2019 at 7:37 AM, JennyMominFL said:

It happens. Last year I got a call that my daughter was at he ER and was 6 months pregnant. She didn't know she was pregnant. She went to the hospital because her BP was sky high and she felt like hell. Now my daughter is a bit overweight and she also has a medical condition where she only has her period a couple of times a year. They had said it would be very difficult for her to get pregnant.

  She was shocked but happy and excited. My husband and I went home for the night then, came back in the morning. That morning they did another ultrasound. The baby had died overnight. My daughter then had to deliver that deceased baby. She named him Stephen after my niece Stephanie who had died 4 months earlier. Last year was a shit year.

In another case, years ago, my husband worked with a woman who gave birth unexpectedly. She was thin the whole time. It was the way the baby was sitting. A month later that baby died, crib death, but we were always suspicious

Last case. I had just arrived at the hospital to have my second child and I was in the room before the birth room. Many of us were just separated by a curtain. They brought a women in who was nearly 6 months along and didn't know she was pregnant. I literally HEARD her give birth to two deceased babies.

This happens a lot more than you would think

So sorry for your loss, Jennymom. Very sad.

I  had two patients who expressed surprise when they were admitted to the delivery room full term. The first was a teen, as one might expect. Both her reaction and her mom's reaction were surprise. From the interactions between them, it did seem genuine. She didn't express much anxiety about her mother learning of her condition, and her mother took it well. She said she'd been having some bleeding on occasion which she took as a period. That happens somewhat frequently. She was a bit overweight and hadn't felt she gained much weight.

The second was a married mom with no reason to try to conceal a pregnancy. She was happy, but very surprised to learn the news. I forget whether or not she'd had any breakthrough bleeding. She hadn't gained much weight, either.

I personally didn't gain much weight with my first. People thought I was about six months along when I was nearly full term. But I did know, lol.

Edited August 29, 2019 by renatae

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Oddly enough, I'm starting to buy the Laura/Aladin relationship. In comparison to others like Mohammed, he seems to genuinely care about Laura, if not falling over himself with attraction. I'm guessing his endgame is to marry and then come over on a spousal visa, so he may be playing the long con, but after seeing her with his family it does feel like this may be one of the more genuine relationships. It's confusing the hell out of me. 

My brain can't accept that there is an actual attraction on his part.  Even if he is physically attracted to blonde, white women, he isn't like sumit where Jenny may be the best looking blonde sumit could attract, even in the world of blondes....aladin do better.  Even in the world of older blonde women....he could do better. 

But credit to him, he is very charming and if it's merely that the realtionship is transactional I think that's fine (though it kinda sucks for Liam).

I try not to have the "America #1 always and of course everyone must want to live here!" attitude, but I find it interesting that he doesn't seem to want to live in the US and I don't know if it has to do with the level of control he has over Laura's finances as her husband in Qatar.

He speaks English well, he is charming and handsome.  I think he could make a killing as a personal trainer in Florida. 

He will not make enough for a fancy bird, but still. 

 I'm interested in why he gets so upset with Liam saying Laura can't have a kid or whatever.  I mean, if being a father was important to aladin, by itself, why even entertain someone Laura's age?  

Even at Laura's "aspirational age" it would be tough to have kids.....and I think there are hints that she is significantly older than her made up age.  So, if having a child was important he could have pursued someone else...why her?

[John M]

5 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Oddly enough, I'm starting to buy the Laura/Aladin relationship. In comparison to others like Mohammed, he seems to genuinely care about Laura, if not falling over himself with attraction. I'm guessing his endgame is to marry and then come over on a spousal visa, so he may be playing the long con, but after seeing her with his family it does feel like this may be one of the more genuine relationships. It's confusing the hell out of me. 

I've known enough couples to know that let's call it, un-conventional appearances, can be genuinely attractive to their loved ones, even with people that have no reason to "settle". 

Also a lot of people find culturally subversive people very attractive, Laura is definitely not who Aladin is "supposed to be with".

[magemaud]

12 hours ago, doyouevengohere said:

At least she figured out she was pregnant before it crowned this time.  I didn't think they would do or be able to see the baby in an ultrasound before 10 weeks or so ; so I'm pretty sure she was preggers before the wedding.

My daughter just had her 12 week ultrasound Monday and said it was the first time it actually looked like a baby instead of a white featureless blob as it did at six weeks. I predict Tiffany got pregnant the day Rawnold got out of rehab. 

[Mercolleen]

4 hours ago, RealReality said:

He will not make enough for a fancy bird, but still. 

Teehee!

[Mrs. Hanson]

30 minutes ago, magemaud said:

My daughter just had her 12 week ultrasound Monday and said it was the first time it actually looked like a baby instead of a white featureless blob as it did at six weeks. I predict Tiffany got pregnant the day Rawnold got out of rehab. 

I agree 100% - I think she was ready to roll with that plan.

Per the ladies who were able to hide their pregnancies?  My first baby boy weighed 11 pounds.......no hiding that baby, lol!!!

Edited August 29, 2019 by Mrs. Hanson

[Annamz]

On 8/26/2019 at 7:23 PM, Mrs. Hanson said:

What to say, what to say.......Paul, EVERYONE hates you.  Deavan, I find it funny that you thank your dad for taking care of Drucilla when YOU LIVE THERE, I assume they do a lot of caretaking already?

Laura - why are you so upset at Mom In Law staying with you?  You have already shared with the world that Aladin does not rock your world.  You would think you would be happy for a reason to NOT knock boots.  Color me shocked that Liam is flying in to attend the wedding.

Personally I would still thank my parents if I was leaving my child in their care for an extended amount of time. That's still her child. 

All the writing on the walls and from what's been shown of her daughter, she seems like a handful. 

[Annamz]

8 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I agree 100% - I think she was ready to roll with that plan.

Per the ladies who were able to hide their pregnancies?  My first baby boy weighed 11 pounds.......no hiding that baby, lol!!!

Did they say she hid her pregnancy or did she not know she was pregnant? I didn't pay much attention to her story in the beginning. 

[magemaud]

23 minutes ago, Annamz said:

Did they say she hid her pregnancy or did she not know she was pregnant? I didn't pay much attention to her story in the beginning. 

She claims she didn't know she was pregnant with Daniel (until she went into labor, I guess.) 

[Kiss my mutt]

Daniel seems like he’s getting acting cues from his mom. He deserves much more than the hand he was dealt and now add in number two baby destined for poverty at the whim of his or her mother’s choices. 

From where I’m sitting, in my judgement seat, Laura doesn’t seem like she can be too picky about the lovin’ in her oven. I mean, how bad can it be?

Does Karine’s abode even have a door that she could change the lock on? Paul seems perfectly happy in the dog house. It seems like Karine has been pregnant since her first season. The bloom is off the rose on that one. 

[nytonc]

I just started watching this 90 day train wreck after being a fan hater of the other franchises. I remember clueless Paul and his Brazilian heartthrob. Is it me or does Karine always look incredibly dirty? She looks like she needs a loooong shower & a scrub brush. Ugh. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by nytonc

[nytonc]

On 8/28/2019 at 10:32 AM, RealReality said:

I wonder if they told Ronald's mom?  If so, I wonder if her reaction isn't shown because it was less than effusive.  She has really been through it with Ronald so if she is less than excited it's probably telling. 

But anyways....Tiffany is so ridiculous it hurts.  

I fully expect a volley of social media posts that either: a) angrily refers to "haters" who dare to judge her for her piss poor decision making, b) somehow try to drum up sympathy or c) suggest that any criticism of her is really criticism of Daniel and therefore unacceptable.

If there is a tell-all she will be salty and defensive as hell.  And she can kiss my entire ass.  Six weeks they have been married.....and they married less than a month after he was out of rehab.  

Her blowing off sage advice because "if we wait for the right time we will be waiting forever!" made me ragey. 

No one is saying she wait forever, but maybe wait until he has a job?  Maybe wait until she can see how he deals with the stress of the child she already has?  Maybe she wait longer than the time between hair colorings?  She barely waited longer than Paris Hilton was in jail!  GTFOH with that.  

If it weren't for her son, I'd love to watch her get fleeced by this hokey looking fuck. 

A more astute person would realize having to wait forever for a right time is a huge fucking red flag!

[Mrs. Hanson]

8 minutes ago, nytonc said:

A more astute person would realize having to wait forever for a right time is a huge fucking red flag!

I posted this in another thread but now that you have tee'd it up for me......

[Kymmi]

I know it happens, but I will never understand how you can't know you are pregnant.  Granted, I was only pregnant once, but even being on the heavier side (and at 5'11", so the baby had some room), I weighed the exact same when I went into labor as when I got pregnant (thank you gestational diabetes diet), I was still very visibly pregnant, and the movement of the baby was so distracting.  I guess the mind is a strong thing, and will make up reasons for any changes in how you're feeling?  So strange to me.

[Spike]

40 minutes ago, Kymmi said:

I know it happens, but I will never understand how you can't know you are pregnant.  Granted, I was only pregnant once, but even being on the heavier side (and at 5'11", so the baby had some room), I weighed the exact same when I went into labor as when I got pregnant (thank you gestational diabetes diet), I was still very visibly pregnant, and the movement of the baby was so distracting.  I guess the mind is a strong thing, and will make up reasons for any changes in how you're feeling?  So strange to me.

Yeah do some babies never kick? What else could that feeling be?

[Azanscrazyhair]

On 8/28/2019 at 8:27 AM, Hannah94 said:

Skipper has no problems talking openly in her TH about how Aladdin sucks in bed, yet almost every scene with them, she is asking for the jiggy jiggy. If it is THAT bad, why does she seem to be obsessed with it? I think she may be an idiot. 

Lol, that's exactly what I said to my husband.   If he sucks with jiggy jiggy why is that all you talk about??

28 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yeah do some babies never kick? What else could that feeling be?

I wonder that too.  When I was pregnant people I worked with could see my son's fist poking out.  It would go from one side to the other.   

[Azanscrazyhair]

And I have to comment on Tiffany's Mom worried about healthcare in SA.  My son saw a Pediatric Neurosurgeon and the same doctor operated on my nephew twice.  My point is he's the best of the best in the Atlanta area. People come from all over the Southeast to see him and he was trained in SA.  

[Baltimore Betty]

11 hours ago, RealReality said:

Even at Laura's "aspirational age" it would be tough to have kids.....and I think there are hints that she is significantly older than her made up age.  So, if having a child was important he could have pursued someone else...why her?

I think she is way older than she admits to.

I have never understood why the people that constantly say that their culture is very important to them, they want children, etc...then go and find the complete opposite person. Aladin and Zyed are two that I can think of that seem to like to admonish their women for not fitting in to their country and culture. 

Why go out of your way to find someone who not only does not share your culture but pushes back when being told about it.