Season 3 Talk

[AngieEllen]

My Opinion On 13RW Season 3:

I don't necessarily believe that they were trying to redeem Bryce. Like Everyone else there were times I started to feel for Bryce. I didn't realize till the end that this was a clever munipulation.
You have to remember that Ani from the very first word spoken in episode 1 is talking to Deputy Standall. Her entire narration is just to distract us. She is telling a story that is meant to lead the police into believing Monty is the Killer.
You periodically catch her lies. The things she says that don't match what you are seeing. Not sure if there is any before this but the first time I cought a lie in the narration was when she had said Her and Clay hadn't kissed but they had in his car. Her Lies became more evident in the last 2 episodes. I think the narration had a big part in humanizing Bryce mainly because Monty needed to look like the bigger bad guy.
Ms. Walker and Bryce him self warned us repeatedly that Bryce is not a good person. Ms. Walker Warned Ani that a few times and When Ani's Mom had sid her son was "a good boy" Mr. Walker corrected her.
Bryce said it to Ani after they had sex telling her "I'm Fucked up, you shouldn't be here." Bryce told Mr. Porter that he still had urges (implied rape) . He Told Mr. Porter that he been having sex with this girl (Ani). He goes on to talk about wanting to be rough and also states he wants to choke her.
The biggest indication was in Bryce's confession tape that he had recorded the night before he dies (maybe 2 nights) He tell Jess "I'd like to say I'm not that same person that raped you, But what I've come to realize is that I'll always be him."
When Bryce is confronted about the things he did his face and demeanor was like a wounded puppy but When threatened it shifted to a cocky arrogant you can't touch me attitude. He knew what role to play to either intimidate the other person or drop their defenses. The last time you saw that shift was at the docks. His pain caused him to drop his facade. He screamed out threats and started to turn on Jess causing Alex to end him.
Bryce wasn't used to being shunned and not having friends that he could easily manipulate. So I believe his poor me I'm trying to change act was a way to regain control get back some of the power he lost.
Bryce is a Narcissist. A narcissist will go to any length to get so called friends or loved ones back. it’s easy to mistake their trickery for genuine remorse and the desire to fix what went wrong when it’s really calculated to appeal to your sentimentality and timed to catch you at a weak moment – often when you’re feeling vulnerable or reflective. It is a scheme meant to toy with your emotions in an effort to get you to soften up and reconcile.

It’s called Hoovering or The Hoover Maneuver.

Hoovering is a technique that’s employed by manipulative and narcissistic con artists to suck their victims back into a relationship with them by exhibiting improved or desirable behavior.  It’s named after the Hoover vacuum cleaner because the hoovering narcissist not only desires to suck you back into the relationship, but will ultimately treat you like dirt.
This is what I believe Bryce was doing throgh this season. His Mother, Ms. Baker and Clay could see it. There at the end Most every ones finally did.
So by the end I didn't see any redeeming qualities in Bryce Not after I saw the shift moments before he was pushed in the water. I will be re watching the entire season again soon to see if I pcik up anything new that I may have mussed the first time.
Well Thanks for reading my 2 cents ramblings 😉

Edited August 29, 2019 by AngieEllen

[tennisgurl]

It is certainly interesting that Bryce tends to get close with people that are vulnerable in some way, or can be controlled. He got really close with Justin and Monty, who are both poor and from turbulent abusive homes and he used his money to get them out of trouble and, especially with Justin, seemed to give him some stability and even basic needs that he never got at home. Even Clay straight up said that Bryce gave Justin drugs this season to keep controlling him, even if he said that he was trying to keep him from overdosing. Then there was Ani, whos mom is working for his family, and he could have gotten her mom fired, if Mrs. Walker wasn't painfully aware of how sketchy her son is.

Man, can you imagine what Hannah's reaction would be if she saw everything that has gone down since she died? "So, some updates, your parents are divorced and your mom lives in New York, Bryce is dead, he was actually killed by Alex (who did I mention tried to kill himself? Almost everyone you knew has been suicidal lately to be real) while Jess was watching, right after Zach beat the crap out of him, and then half the kids on your tapes all teamed up to keep them from going to jail, and pinned it on Monty! Oh, and Monty is dead too, he was in jail for raping Tyler, oh right that happened too, and then he almost shot up a school dance but Clay talked him down so now Tyler and Clay are super close oh and Jess stripped to her underwear in the middle of Homecoming to protest rape culture oh and the school has a massive epidemic of rape and assault and oh right Justin confessed to his part in what happened to Jess and went to jail but before that became a homeless drug addict before Clay found him and in what is possibly the biggest twist, Clay and Justin are super close now and Clays family is adopting him and they have tearful heartfelt "I love you man" style conversation on the regular, which is good because Clay keep threatening to kill people or running into dangerous situations with nary a plan in sight! Oh, and Bryce's dad called ICE on Tony's family and had them deported. But at least some of the people on your guilt tapes have become rather less crappy, and Mr. Porter started just punching every jerk in the whole town, so its not all bad right?

And thats the short version!

[AngieEllen]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Man, can you imagine what Hannah's reaction would be if she saw everything that has gone down since she died? "So, some updates, your parents are divorced and your mom lives in New York, Bryce is dead, he was actually killed by Alex (who did I mention tried to kill himself? Almost everyone you knew has been suicidal lately to be real) while Jess was watching, right after Zach beat the crap out of him, and then half the kids on your tapes all teamed up to keep them from going to jail, and pinned it on Monty! Oh, and Monty is dead too, he was in jail for raping Tyler, oh right that happened too, and then he almost shot up a school dance but Clay talked him down so now Tyler and Clay are super close oh and Jess stripped to her underwear in the middle of Homecoming to protest rape culture oh and the school has a massive epidemic of rape and assault and oh right Justin confessed to his part in what happened to Jess and went to jail but before that became a homeless drug addict before Clay found him and in what is possibly the biggest twist, Clay and Justin are super close now and Clays family is adopting him and they have tearful heartfelt "I love you man" style conversation on the regular, which is good because Clay keep threatening to kill people or running into dangerous situations with nary a plan in sight! Oh, and Bryce's dad called ICE on Tony's family and had them deported. But at least some of the people on your guilt tapes have become rather less crappy, and Mr. Porter started just punching every jerk in the whole town, so its not all bad right?

Oh and Clay fell in Love with Sky but She dumped him after a suicide attempt and broke his heart because She said He made her want to cut herself.  Then He met this Girl Ani that strung him along while she was secretly sleeping with Bryce.   But now that Bryce is dead she decided Clay was good enough even though she said that You and her didn't love him back.  

[CaliforniaLove]

When did Monty's henchman become "inner circle"? 

[BaggythePanther]

2 hours ago, CaliforniaLove said:

When did Monty's henchman become "inner circle"? 

There was a minute where I thought he might be the murderer, just because it would be a twist no one saw coming.

Seeing as they so easily accepted Ani this season, not a stretch they’d accept a kid that helped them frame someone for murder.

[memememe76]

In whatshisname’s defence, he is teammates with Zac and Justin, who both like him. And I think Taylor trusts him for corroborating his report. And he worked with Jessica at the cinema. 

[truthaboutluv]

Thank God that's over. No idea how I made it through. Well that's not entirely true. I still think the cast of actors is for the most part very good and bless their heart, they do their best to sell this crap. 

Immediate thoughts. Very disappointed Ani wasn't the guilty party and more importantly, it didn't mean she'd be gone for the final season. I can't take another season of this chick sucking up screen time. I just can't wrap my head around the writers thinking it was a great idea to shove this newbie into the show and let her dominate the entire freaking season.

And no, just no with her and Clay as a pairing. My goodness, would it be too much for the writers to just give Clay one decent relationship? Last chick was a ball of mental issues and Ani is so fucking annoying. They also have no chemistry. 

My main suspects were Ani or Alex, so at least I turned out to be right there. To me it was just so glaringly obvious Alex was guilty, not least of all because of his psychotic simmering roid rage. And despite all the glaring red flags, no one was really talking about him. That more than anything was made me think it was likely him. And I have a feeling his dad covering up for him will come back and bite him in the butt. I also don't think covering everything up is the best decision for Alex. 

Tyler broke my heart so many times this season. It was nice to see him get a little better but I'm glad the ending makes it clear that the almost school shooting will not go away. Tyler needs heavy, intense counseling. I was so frustrated the longer it seemed that he was only relying on a bunch of high school friends and not talking at least to the school counselor.

So I was glad when he finally admitted what Monty did to him and spoke to the counselor. But Tyler came very close to shooting up an entire room of innocent people (well excluding Monty and the other assholes who assaulted him). That cannot and should not be swept under the rug.

It's why I was completely with Zach in wanting no part of the cover up and I liked the conversation he and Tyler later had when Tyler asked him why he hated him and Zach said he didn't hate him, instead he was afraid of him. Because yeah, victim though he may be, Tyler is also a very troubled kid. He is clearly working towards getting better but he needs more help and part of that may be his having to fully own up to what he almost did. 

Speaking of people needing help. Am I the only one bothered by what I feel are other people's almost too casual approach to Justin's drug addiction? Like why is Justin not in rehab? In the words of Monique - make that make sense. Meanwhile, as great as Alisha Boe (Jessica) and Brandon Flynn (Justin) are together on screen, Jessica and Justin is a ball of dysfunction and toxicity that needs to end. It feels like the more damaged those two are, the more attracted to each other they are. Guess it makes them feel like their "love" is that much more passionate and intense. 

At one point near the end, I almost wanted Clay to go to jail just for his stupidity. I loved when Hannah's mother spelled it out to him, that this was a murder investigation and no time for him wanting to play hero. I've said it since the first season. Clay is a good kid and has a good heart. And oddly I'd even say that despite his natural insecurities and hang ups, he may be the most self assured and accepting of who he is, of all his friends. But dude has to get over that hero complex. It's just exhausting at times. 

And finally - Bryce and Monty. First, are we supposed to assume someone killed Monty or that he killed himself? They kind of left it vague but I doubt he just suddenly dropped dead of natural causes in jail. I guess the big debate of this season will be are people allowed vigilante justice and do we get to dictate who lives and dies because that person did awful, hateful, even criminal things in their lives. 

Not sure I can really answer those questions but what I do know is that I didn't care about Bryce or Monty's deaths. Sorry, not sorry. That said, as I posted above, I don't think covering for Alex is best because I think Alex is a potential tragedy just waiting to happen, And their covering this one thing will likely only spiral into something worse down the line. So for that, I do think Alex should have paid for what he did. But Monty obviously also belonged in a jail cell for what he did to Tyler. 

I guess we can also debate whether one person's crime is worse than another's. Monty assaulted Tyler but Tyler very nearly murdered a bunch of kids and Bryce was a serial rapist but Alex is a murderer. At the end of the day, I think as THR summed it up, "These kids are not alright". And ultimately they're all fucked up and awful in their own ways. But yeah, Monty and Bryce's deaths weren't tragedies to me. It was an end to two lives that were lived in pretty awful and shitty ways. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Tyler broke my heart so many times this season. It was nice to see him get a little better but I'm glad the ending makes it clear that the almost school shooting will not go away. Tyler needs heavy, intense counseling. I was so frustrated the longer it seemed that he was only relying on a bunch of high school friends and not talking at least to the school counselor.

Especially since it was clear that when he had some intensive therapy last season, it really helped him so it made me feel that if he went back to the therapy, he could really work through his issues and trauma after being brutally assaulted by Monty. I don't think Tyler was ever a hopeless cause but he just needed the right kind of help. As well intentioned as Clay was with his daily babysitting schedule, I think that Tyler would have benefited more from going back to intensive therapy so that he could heal from the PTSD he had from being so violently violated.

[DangerousMinds]

On 8/25/2019 at 4:58 PM, Sarahsmile416 said:

I would take Hannah’s ghost as narrator over Ani. She added nothing to this season, beyond acting as an apologist to Bryce.  

Agree. I had to stop watching after episode 3 because I couldn't take her any longer.

[preeya]

8 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I can't take another season of this chick sucking up screen time. I just can't wrap my head around the writers thinking it was a great idea to shove this newbie into the show and let her dominate the entire freaking season.

 

 

↑↑ THIS x 1000 ↑↑

Edited August 30, 2019 by preeya

[truthaboutluv]

So now reading through all the comments, I see I wasn't alone in my Ani hate. I would be very curious to know what the general viewer reaction was to the character. To see if we are in the minority or if that is the general consensus. And if so, if that will affect any decisions the writers make for the final season.

Because they seriously cannot have another season dominated by this chick. She's an awful, awful character and Clay deserves way better than little miss rape apologist, let me kiss you, say it's a mistake but then act all butthurt when said guy doesn't pick up her desperate cue to be asked to Homecoming. Just no... 

[shoregirl]

Maybe its because this season didnt hold my interest but did Clay know that Alex was to blame for Bryces murder before he was a person if iterest .  Did Alex let Clay get arrested in front of the school knowing he did it? Because thats pretty awful. Just because he knew Clay was not guilty does not mean Clay would been found not guilty .how long would have let it go?

I get that Clay wants to save people but seriously needs to be selfish once in a while

Also once Clay graduates he probably needs to have minimum contact with everyone but Justin, Tony and Tyler. 

I did like Tyler's story I lived how slowly he started to smile again. But he needs more help than these kids can give him. The photo exibit at the end of the people who helped him was really lovely but he needs serious help. I thought the scene where he told Clay was really well done and I liked after Clay said he felt liking hugging him and would that be ok.

Also Monty was in jail for rape not for murder so while he doesn't deserve to die in prison or be accused of a murder he didn't commit he wasn't wrongly immprisoned.

[truthaboutluv]

3 hours ago, shoregirl said:

Maybe its because this season didnt hold my interest but did Clay know that Alex was to blame for Bryces murder before he was a person if iterest .

No, Clay had no idea who killed Bryce. He didn't know about Zach beating him up or Alex shoving him in the water. Jessica did though. So really both her and Alex stood silently by while Clay was arrested, knowing he didn't kill Bryce. They even knew Zach was the one who beat Bryce up because Bryce said it when they showed up. 

3 hours ago, shoregirl said:

Did Alex let Clay get arrested in front of the school knowing he did it? Because thats pretty awful. Just because he knew Clay was not guilty does not mean Clay would been found not guilty .how long would have let it go?

Yeah pretty much. That was his attitude when Zach told him he would confess. His response was "let it play out". I think he and Jessica truly convinced themselves that since Clay obviously did not do it, plus his mom is a lawyer and the family could afford a great lawyer for him, that it would all work out in the end.

Total bullshit like you said and shows how shitty they are but yeah I think that was the mindset. Also makes it even more ridiculous that right to the end, Clay was trying to cover that the steriods were Alex's.

That's why I said that at one point I almost wanted his dumb ass to go to jail for being an idiot. Even after Hannah's mother told him he had to start thinking about himself since his dumb ass was the one about to go down for murder, he was still blabbing on about not selling out his friends. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[shoregirl]

22 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

No, Clay had no idea who killed Bryce. He didn't know about Zach beating him up or Alex shoving him in the water. Jessica did though. So really both her and Alex stood silently by while Clay was arrested, knowing he didn't kill Bryce. They even knew Zach was the one who beat Bryce up because Bryce said it when they showed up. 

Thanks..thats what I thought but I thought maybe I missed something because what kind of person let's his friend get arrested for murder when they the one who did it.

Clay ,dude, your loyalty is admirable but maybe draw the line at getting arrested for fucking murder.   Seriously you not wanting so well out Alex for steroids is nice but he probably get probation at worst . Also Alex was letting it play out with out seeming to feel guilty about it when you could have served serious jail time for a murder you didnt commit. 

[Miles]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah pretty much. That was his attitude to Zach when Zach told him he would confess. His attitude was "let it play out". I think he and Jessica truly convinced themselves that since Clay obviously did not do it, plus his mom is a lawyer, they could afford a great lawyer for him that it would all work out in the end. Total bullshit like you said and shows how shitty they are but yeah I think that was the mindset. Also makes it even more ridiculous that right to the end, Clay was trying to cover that the steriods were Alex's.

To be fair, if I had killed somebody, I'd probably also see how it plays out. If there actually is enough evidence to bring this to trail, I can still confess. It certainly isn't nice for anybody involved, but maybe I could get away with it and have nobody suffer the consequences.

[AngieEllen]

What are your thoughts on everyones Character Roles?  I'm confused on some of the roles they played this season.  Maybe that's what the show wanted in order to keep us guessing "Who Killed Bryce Walker?"

Here is my thoughts and guesses!

From Season 1 Clay has always played the "Martyr" and continued his role this season. 

Tony was the "Voice of Reason" in season 1 Can't remember who was in season 2.  But the only person I can think played the "Voice of Reason" this season is Ms. Walker and Ms. Baker in the end.  Definitely not Ani.

Not sure where Tony's character fit this season. 

The Antagonists in the first 2 season was Bryce but not this season and I'm not sure if Monty was either.  Not sure what role Bryce played this season other than (and I really hate saying it) the Victim. Maybe he was the Protagonist.

Monty played the henchman in season 1 and 2 but not sure if his role this season could be classified as the Antagonist or not.  

Zach Played the Anti-Hero in the first 2 seasons this season I think Justin fit that role more. 

Jessica played the victim in 1 & 2 but this season the Rebel

Alex was the Deuteragonist in season 1 & 2 this season up to the last epoisode I saw him as the Cynic.  

Deputy Standall is of course in the role of the authoritative figure

Tyler I think took on the role of Deuteragonist this season.

Charlie aka Whatshisname was the Observer he started out as minion or henchman but he Observed the otherside and realized he was on the wong side.

Now Ani her role is the Narrator and Love intrest although I didn't like her in either role.  Story teller isn't suppose to lie and I don't think her personality is a good fit for Clay. 

So what is your opinion on everyone's character type? 

Edited August 31, 2019 by AngieEllen

[Marley]

This show sucks so bad now. I only got to half way thru episode one and I quit watching. Ani is completely annoying and way too involved for someone brand new. 

McKay’s facial expressions annoy me and I don’t care about any of the storylines anymore. This show should’ve been a one season show maybe 2 but it’s just ridiculous now.

[rue721]

I was really bothered by the way that Monty was just disposed of like trash at the end of the season. He was vicious and needed to be held accountable for beating and raping Tyler, but we had two seasons of the town reeling over the tragedy of Hannah's suicide, and then another season of the town fighting for justice for Bryce of all people -- and then Monty dies and it's just "[shrug] How convenient! Let's let the dead bury the dead"? WTF. I'm assuming that next season will be at least somewhat about his death like this season was about Bryce's...or I'm hoping, anyway, because that really pissed me off.

I also think it's disturbing that this kid was running around telling everyone that his father was beating the shit out of him, he was casually saying he needed to squat in some abandoned building for a few days because his dad went after him with a hammer (S2), he was showing up at school with a broken arm and his "bff" Bryce told him his father must not have beat him hard enough because he's still an idiot (S2 -- that was immediately before he raped Tyler), he straight up told a couple unfriendly acquaintances (of all people) that he's routinely getting beat bloody with a police baton...and still literally nobody made any move to protect him. ANY move. I get why, Monty was thoroughly unlikable! He acted like a feral dog (at best). He did really grotesque things. But nobody deserves to be abused like that, get attacked and get their bones broken, and nobody's last moments on earth should be spent trying to wipe his father's spit from his face while his hands are in shackles. Ugh.

For a show about the dangers of letting people slip through the cracks, Monty definitely slipped through the cracks. He wasn't even subtle about slipping! On top of this abuse being an open "secret," he was also failing half his classes, eerily fixated on the most notorious predator in school (Bryce), dangerously and endlessly aggressive with his classmates, telling his guidance counselor that he has no future...I mean, he even told the COPS about his dad beating him. And they didn't do anything about it, either, apparently, because pretty much right afterward his dad comes to visit him in jail.

He needed to face consequences for beating and raping Tyler, at the least because he really didn't seem to grasp the gravity of what he'd done, and I think jail was far from the worst place he could be, but I also feel like -- how come there weren't similar consequences for his dad beating him with impunity for years? How come when it was a parent violently assaulting a child, the whole world apparently (tacitly) approved? There's a fair amount of emphasis this season on how it's re-traumatizing to have to see your rapist or abuser or bully in the school halls day after day, but what about living with them? And the show could have gone in that direction with Bryce and Ani, but frankly, I'm glad that they didn't. Maybe they'll go in that direction with Monty in flashbacks next season, I don't know.

Anyhow, I really liked Tyler and Justin's stories about healing or at least trying to heal and getting support...but I thought they really contrasted with Monty's of basically destructiveness and being totally alone. And Justin sort of doesn't know how to be supported and loved but Monty...I mean, that boy couldn't even handle a civil conversation.

I also thought that the show could have gone deeper into Tony's story, because losing his entire family in a split second? Ugh, my heart is in my throat just thinking about it. I thought the episode when they were taken was really good, I liked the untranslated Spanish especially. And I'm actually happy that the show wasn't totally bleak and did show his parents and brothers happy in Mexico and his sister safe in Arizona. But that's SUCH an enormous storyline that it seems like it should have had more of an emotional impact on the town and within the world of the show.

Anyhow, I actually think this was a fairly good season. I'm bothered by Ani, but not so much because I find her that unlikable -- I actually thought she had some good jokes in the earlier episodes, and it's nice to have a main character with a sense of humor, although then she eventually got so smug and patronizing that I couldn't take it -- but because her narration was really heavy-handed and obviously skewed and it started frustrating me. I really didn't need to hear this random girl's take on EVERYTHING, especially since her take had tons of lies in it. Even how Bryce's actions were framed:  she kept trying to put him in the best possible light, but if you pay attention to what he's actually saying/doing in the scenes rather than to her framing, he's usually being incredibly manipulative or at best incredibly selfish/self-centered. I don't really think that the show was trying to do a redemption arc for Bryce so much as, we got Bryce as Ani saw him, which was through rose-tinted glasses. We got everything as ANI saw it, rather than how it happened. Which is fun in theory but would have been a lot more fun (and interesting, illuminating) if Ani hadn't been the ONLY narrator.

I'm not really here for Bryce's redemption arc, but after thinking about it for a while, I think it was pretty well handled overall. It's interesting to see him through his mother's and Ani's eyes, after seeing him through the eyes of his victims for so long. I also think that he targeted the most vulnerable boys to be his friends and basically "bought" them because he knew that they were the least likely to leave him. As long as he kept them dependent on him, they would stay. I don't even think that was coming from a malicious place, I think he was just lonely and had abandonment issues with his parents, so he was going to buy himself whatever version of a family he could. These were also boys that were very desperate for family, too.

Anyway, I like Jess pretty well, and her storyline was good but...eh, I feel like it's hard to get into her perspective. I think that the show is also really suffering from its gender imbalance and it really needs to have interconnected social circles of girls like it does guys if it wants to solve that. Which it probably doesn't have the time/focus to do now that there's only one season left, but...I really felt the lack of not just female characters but a sense of a female social "world" within the school. The HOs seemed isolated and underwritten compared to the boys' social circles.

I thought this season was actually surprisingly strong. Personally, I could do with less Clay and with the narration shifting from person to person rather than just being one single narrator (who has an agenda), but those are probably just my hangups.

[truthaboutluv]

I guess that answers my question about what the general viewer reaction was to Ani's character. That said, people need to take a chill pill and get a fucking life and learn to separate fiction from real life. And oh the irony of bullying an actress because you disliked her character on a show ABOUT the effects of bullying, among other things. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[rue721]

10 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

And oh the irony of bullying an actress because you disliked her character on a show ABOUT the effects of bullying, among other things.

Ugh. That's horrible.

Also, Ani was just doing the same semi-reliable narration thing that Hannah did in the first season through the tapes! This wasn't anything new, this was the show trying to go back to basics.

This isn't why the actress or probably even the character is getting so much blowback, but I think that the writing did do somewhat of a disservice to Ani by making her the narrator to a central mystery that she wasn't really that central to. When Hannah was narrating the story of her suicide, she was narrating a story in which she was both the perpetrator and victim -- it made sense that her narration was fundamental to the story, because her thoughts/actions were fundamental to the story. But Ani wasn't a victim or a perpetrator, at least when it comes to the question of who killed Bryce.

The weird thing is that she IS central to the "mystery" of why she falsely accused Monty of murder, and I also would think that the motivations/thoughts/etc behind a false accusation would be something a show that's about the affects of assault and specifically sexual assault would be really interested in, since false accusations are bandied around like a boogeyman whenever sexual assault allegations comes up. Why didn't the show center that mystery, so that it could center Ani more naturally? I feel like they needed to commit more to her being the main character if they were going to have her take over Hannah's role.

Personally, I think the season's arc/structure would have made more sense if Ani had accused Monty of killing Bryce at the very beginning, episode 1, and her storyline over the season had been about her decision to do that and the repercussions from that, rather than about her falling for Bryce and the repercussions of THAT. The flashbacks could have been leading up to the accusation, and the present day could have had Monty already arrested/jailed (except that it would turn out to have been for raping Tyler). Not that the Bryce/Ani storyline was so terrible that it couldn't have been a focus, but it was just so irrelevant. It had nothing to do with the mystery of his death, and didn't seem to get under Ani's skin or change her that much, either.

I also think the frame story needed to be different. The tapes were cheesy but at least the show put a lot of effort into explaining why/how Hannah made tapes specifically, they had a lot of weight within the show because people only listened to them after and because she was dead, and we got to see not only the events she was talking about in the tapes but the repercussions on everybody of listening to the tapes and suddenly understanding Hannah's perspective, too. Whereas with Ani, it's ridiculous that she would actually be narrating ALL THIS to the police, there's no reason her account should have any special (let alone definitive) weight with the cops or even with her friends (seeing as she's not that involved in Bryce's death and is basically on the edges of their friend group), and the season didn't cover any repercussions from what she said or from other people understanding her perspective because she was narrating from too far in the future for the season to really cover. If Ani is the central character and the story is being told predominantly in her perspective, a la Hannah in S1, then her big decision/turning point is her decision to accuse Monty of Bryce's death (not when Bryce died, since she didn't have anything to do with it), so the flashbacks/present day should have been hinged around the accusation. Or at least it seemed to me like that was the big decision, I'm not really thinking of another big one? The show sometimes spun it like her big decision was sleeping with Bryce or helping the HOs at Homecoming, but frankly, those didn't seem like decisions that created a real before/after or were some big moment of truth for Ani.

Another thing that I think was an issue is that Ani made the point that she's always just whoever the other person wants her to be whenever they want her to be it, and it's difficult to "know" a character like that, since the whole point is that she doesn't let anyone know her. I think the writers should have given us more moments of Ani being purely herself, as she sees herself, so that we could connect with and understand her better. I mean, there didn't have to be a ton of that, but enough so that at least we could really understand the difference between Ani-playing-a-role and Ani-herself. (Did we ever even see her alone in her room? I don't remember.) The frustrating thing is that Justin and Monty both had similar storylines about trying to role-play and mask who they "really" were out of desperation to be accepted, and we did get quite a few "real" moments from Justin and even got one from Monty (when he was with Winston on Homecoming night). If the show could give them moments like that, why not Ani? Maybe hers were supposed to be when she was sleeping with Bryce, but even then, when he was saying he was falling for her or whatever, she stayed silent. It didn't seem to me like she was more "real" or even more vulnerable with him than with Clay or with her mom or with whoever else.

Something else that I find weird structurally is that there's no relationship or even connection between Ani and Monty, at least that we know about now, so after all that narration, I still don't really understand why she would decide to frame him for Bryce's murder. I mean, I get that he's awful and that everybody likes Alex and Zach better, but what's it to her REALLY? Why not just let it play out however it's going to play out? Even Alex and Zach were going to do that, and Jessica was lying but just about herself, she wasn't trying to actively blame other people. And why would Ani be cool with Bryce's killer going free, even if he's in her social circle, since she was closer to Bryce than to anyone else in town? Honestly, it seems like once the cops knew that Zach beat the shit out of Bryce, they'd just assume that he'd been the one to push him in the river, too. Who believes a story like, "Sure, I was the one to beat him nearly to death, but then I left him there, I wasn't the one to push him three more inches into the water"? And if the cops think that Zach DIDN'T do that, then why would they think that it's a murder at all? If they don't think that the guy who beat him to a pulp was the one to finish Bryce off, then why not assume that Bruce fell into the river by accident trying to walk on a broken leg or something? Eh, maybe I'm mis-remembering details or misunderstanding the plot.

And yet another thing that I find weird is that Monty dies immediately before the accusation. So he apparently never finds out about it and it's not a factor in his death. So I mean, why actually have that whole storyline at all? As a really elaborate set up for a storyline next season about how everybody is covering for Alex even though he's turning out to be a creep, too, he's just kind of more stealth and ambivalent about it? (lol).

Well anyhow, I guess I'm also kind of assuming that Monty's death and the circumstances leading up to and around it are going to be important next season, which isn't necessarily the case. He might have just been written off. Maybe they'll start season 4 with like, Ani or Justin or Clay or Jessica or somebody dead and then the rest of the season will be about that (god I hope not!).

[truthaboutluv]

9 hours ago, rue721 said:

When Hannah was narrating the story of her suicide, she was narrating a story in which she was both the perpetrator and victim -- it made sense that her narration was fundamental to the story, because her thoughts/actions were fundamental to the story. But Ani wasn't a victim or a perpetrator, at least when it comes to the question of who killed Bryce.

That sums up the entire issue with the character and why she failed so horribly with viewers. The actress getting any hate is absolutely out of line but the writers fucked up majorly with this character. Ani was just a poorly developed mess.

But more than that, how could the writers think it was wise to shove a character that the audience knew nothing about, never met before and so had ZERO investment in her as a person and then compound things by making her dominate the narrative. The hell?

Ani's narration was in no way similar to Hannah's and made zero sense as far as I'm concerned. Hannah killed herself and wanted to tell why she did it. And so she shared her story. Inconsistent at points or not, it was her truth. What they did with Ani was shove some random girl who apparently only just moved to town but is an authority on all of these kids' character and motivation, etc. Like seriously?

Once again I feel for the actress because that shit is not okay but sorry, not sorry, I for one would be more than fine with their writing her out. Yes I know there's the whole Monty not killing Bryce mystery but really, the entire group is involved with that.

Ani just spoke the words to Alex' dad who really was just looking for some way to cover up what he knew was true - and that's that his son killed Bryce. So really there are enough people involved in this to weave a season without Ani's presence. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[mledawn]

Just finished bingeing this season. Ani unfortunately was the worst addition. Her role in the show was as exposition fairy but as viewers we had no real attachment to her. She was the New Girl, which allowed her to see things that others likely would not (and did not), but she also inserted herself into situations she shouldn't have been. I don't blame the actress for that - Ani seemed well played - but the writing was not well done.

As others have said, Tyler's arc has been the most satisfying, although I don't really mean "satisfying". It's going to be difficult to see what happens to his newfound trust and strength when it comes out about the school shooting attempt next season (I'm assuming).

Getting rid of Bryce was cathartic for me as a viewer, and I can see how they tried to show him as a complete person. I'm a little annoyed they downplayed the number of girls he actually raped (except when Monty literally called him on "dozens" during their confrontation about Tyler in the locker room), but I understand what they were trying to do.

The writers have done a good job of setting up the next season, and I'll probably watch.

[AngieEllen]

Ani as a Character and Narrator was a poor decision on the writers part.  Grace Saif as an Actress did a amazing for the part she was hired for.  She was doing her Job if she wasn't hired to play Ani it would of been another unfortunate soul getting ostracized.   

Ani wasn't my favorite character either but I see the reason and need for her. The writers needed someone to not only Humanize Bryce but also show us he hadn't really changed.  The only way they could do that was with someone new.  that person couldn't tell that story without being the narrator.  It was a clever twist on the writers part executed poorly. But in No way is it the actresses fault.  Her acting skills are incredible for what she was given to work with.  

[Donny]

Just finished watching season 3 of 13 reasons and I have some questions.How did Zach know Bryce was going to be down at the peer after the homecoming game?Why was Alex and Bryce even hanging out the summer before considering what Bryce did to Alexs’s girlfriend Jess.Didn’t anyone else find it a bit disturbing when Clay confronted Monty after Tyler told him what he did,when he confronted him he only mentioned all about him(Monty) having motive to kill Bryce and didnt give him any shit for what he actually did to Tyler.It just seems very unClay like.

[Neurochick]

I just finished watching this season and I loved it.  

HERE COME THE SPOILERS

First, I got Ani, was she annoying?  Not to me.  Ani's mom was a servant, as was Ani to a point.  The thing about servants is they know what's going on with everybody because they have to.  I think about the movie "The Help," and how those women knew what was going on because they had to.  So I got how Ani knew what was going on.

I like that this show never pulled back when other shows might have cut the scene.  We saw Chloe get an abortion and that scene was realistic; a lesser show would have cut that scene, not take us there with her.  I like that we heard from Tylor, what was done to him, and that played out, as he told Jessica everything, it was hard to listen to.

As for Bryce; he was a very fucked up person.  When Bryce told Porter that he still had thoughts about hurting women, Porter said that he really shouldn't date anybody.  Good advice.  Bryce wanted to change, most people don't change because they're bad, but because they're lazy.  Basically, the reason Bryce was killed was because of that, he reverted back to the privileged asshole that he was in season one.  He broke Zach's knee because he was jealous and pissed off that Zach was with Chloe even though Bryce was falling for Ani, he was still angry at Zach, and that anger put everything in motion.

Halfway during the season, I wondered if the show would be something like "Murder on the Orient Express" or the CSI episode, "Unfriendly Skies" and I was sort of right.  

I liked the end because it wasn't "haha, we're all fine," it was more like "oh shit, how are we all going to deal with this."  I mean they're all guilty, even Alex's dad who knew the truth.

As far as the actress who played Ani getting bullied.  I'm not surprised.  There's an AA joke which goes:

"How many alcoholics does it take to change a lightbulb?"  "Change...change?  No, we don't want change..."

And that's really the thing.  Everybody wants their shows to stay the same.  How many times have I said, or has someone said to me, "This isn't the show I fell in love with..."  Of course it isn't.  People change.  Life changes things.  It's reality.  

Someone asked me today if I thought the actress was bullied because she's black.  I don't think that's true.  In season 1 there was a Sheri who I think moved a stop sign that resulted in an accidental death.  In season 2 I think she was in juvie or some kind of alternative school; and in this season she's not there and nobody mentions her.  I remember a lot of people really liked the character.  

For whatever reason, people resent a new character appearing and having an important role in a show.  Maybe someone should do a psychological study on why that is.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Neurochick

[elzin]

Oh man did I hate almost every second of this season. I only kept watching to see if it redeemed itself in some way. It... did not. But at least I saved myself from the "should I watch S4?" dilemma.

I hated hated hated Ani. Her whole character came across as a self-insert fan fiction. She's so smart and clever and kind and spunky and everyone instantly trusts her even though she's new (and secretly lives with the villain, who is now Draco-in-leather-pants!). Only this rando new girl can save the day! Hope she has time to solve the mystery because the two main male characters have the hots for the real her.

I don't like the idea of Bryce having a redemption arc, but I concede that he was still a child and if it was written well (like the yoga scene or the letter he wrote as his mother) it could have been interesting and worthwhile. I mean, Tyler had a successful redemption arc. But it wasn't written consistently or satisfyingly. I believe by the writing he wasn't faking his regret, but I also don't care.

And am I supposed to think that a bunch of children babysitting an almost school shooter is an effective, intelligent plan? Or covering up/looking past a straight up murder and a violent assault are okey dokey because all that matters is that the new girl figured it out and got all cutesy with the cops? "I'm going to tell you who did it but first I'm going to tell you about all the other suspects." WTF.

If these people were real, the best thing that could happen to Clay is to run screaming to a college full of normal people and never go home again.

[truthaboutluv]

4 hours ago, elzin said:

If these people were real, the best thing that could happen to Clay is to run screaming to a college full of normal people and never go home again.

I have to say, one of the few times I laughed this season was when Clay told Ani that she approached him to be his friend and truthfully he wasn't sure he even wanted a new friend because the ones he already had were stressful enough. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by truthaboutluv

[Jax7917]

Does anyone else get annoyed at how many times in one sentence each of the kids says “ fuck” ? It’s distracting to me . Once or twice a sentence would do just fine . 

Ani really needs to go away . She just came to the school and knows everything about everyone and is in everyone’s business 24 hours a day . Who casted this girl ? And her voice is like nails on a chalkboard . 

Can these people in this school go on a field trip or an outing somewhere and maybe have some fun ? Jeez . 

[rue721]

4 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Does anyone else get annoyed at how many times in one sentence each of the kids says “ fuck” ? It’s distracting to me . Once or twice a sentence would do just fine . 

Yes! The cussing was ridiculous. It's not even something that bothers me in real life but it just sounded so inarticulate and repetitive on the show.

[PWHCHCH]

The super angry chick from HO (who was also in MTV’s Scream) is Tumblr personified. 

[Giuseppe]

On 9/4/2019 at 3:35 AM, AngieEllen said:

Ani wasn't my favorite character either but I see the reason and need for her. The writers needed someone to not only Humanize Bryce but also show us he hadn't really changed.  The only way they could do that was with someone new.  that person couldn't tell that story without being the narrator.  It was a clever twist on the writers part executed poorly. But in No way is it the actresses fault.  Her acting skills are incredible for what she was given to work with. 

Yeah, so like everyone else, I had a really hard time accepting the fact that this new girl was so easily welcomed into the group's fold, but I agree with the above. However, I wonder if Ani would have worked better if she weren't a new girl, but rather a returning student who'd moved away for a while, like sometime before or right after Hannah arrived. That way, she could've already known/been friends with everyone and it would have made more sense to include her as someone really curious to understand what had been going on in her friends' lives since she'd been gone.

In any case, I DID love the actress portraying Ani's mom. She was awesome and I loved her I KNOW EVERYTHING AND I SEE THROUGH ALL THE BULLSHIT attitude.

Overall, I love a good whodunnit, so I actually really enjoyed this season. I realized sometime during the last 3 or 4 episodes that I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. The show really knows how to amp up the tension.

Someone way upthread mentioned Jeff, I think, the kid who died in the car accident in season one. I forgot about that, and holy hell has this school lost a lot of students in the past two years. At this point, they should have a mandatory counseling class instead of study hall.

On 9/8/2019 at 7:08 PM, Jaclyn88 said:

Does anyone else get annoyed at how many times in one sentence each of the kids says “ fuck” ?

I was more wondering how hammered I'd be if I took a shot everytime someone said "I'm so, so sorry"!

[Anela]

I have the thread open in another window, where I stopped reading (up to a comment about episode eight, which I'm watching right now).

Tyler broke my heart. 😞 

I'm not keen on a new girl being front and centre, but I heard that she was bullied off social media. That is not good, and it seems like their message about helping others, making sure that kind of thing doesn't happen, isn't getting through to some. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 minutes ago, Anela said:

I'm not keen on a new girl being front and centre, but I heard that she was bullied off social media. That is not good, and it seems like their message about helping others, making sure that kind of thing doesn't happen, isn't getting through to some. 

Yeah, I really don't get that. It's one thing to dislike a character (and full disclosure, I did not enjoy Ani's presence this season), but it's another thing to bully the actress who was hired to play this character. People need to learn how to separate fiction and reality. It's totally fine to hate a fictional character. It is not fine to harass an actor just because you don't like the way the character was written or their story arc. If people are THAT upset about Ani, they need to address it with the writers and producers, not the actor. Leave the poor girl alone. She got hired to play a character and that's what she did. It's not like she wrote the storyline or had any say in the plot.

[AngieEllen]

On 9/13/2019 at 11:00 PM, Giuseppe said:

eah, so like everyone else, I had a really hard time accepting the fact that this new girl was so easily welcomed into the group's fold, but I agree with the above. However, I wonder if Ani would have worked better if she weren't a new girl, but rather a returning student who'd moved away for a while, like sometime before or right after Hannah arrived. That way, she could've already known/been friends with everyone and it would have made more sense to include her as someone really curious to understand what had been going on in her friends' lives since she'd been gone.

This would of been perfect role For "Kat" Hannah's friend that moved away in season 1. 

[kj4ever]

11 hours ago, AngieEllen said:

This would of been perfect role For "Kat" Hannah's friend that moved away in season 1. 

Or Sherry, who I loved, who returned last season a bit more street wise and with a bit of an edge from rehab.  It would have made sense that she'd be in on everything, and that she also might be able to figure out a way to get them out of the whole Bryce situation.

[LakeGal]

Finally finished season 3.  I hated the character of Ani.  Sorry that she was bullied on social media.  Fans should be more angry with the writers than the actress.  She was just doing her job.  The fact the writers thought we would want this character dominating the season was the real problem.

I was expecting a type of conclusion where several characters were involved in Bryce's killing.  They even made it vague at first how he was killed.  They said he was shot then it turned out he was hit on the head twice and finally he drowned.

Clay really has to rethink his friends.  At least both Tyler and Zach wanted to come forward when they realized Clay was being blamed for the murder and they wanted to help.  But Alex and Jessica both sat back and let Clay be arrested while they knew he was innocent.  I do wonder if Alex's father would have let Clay go to jail if he was sure his son did it.   

[kirkola]

Okay, finally got around to finishing this show.  I agree with most of you about Ani.  She wasn't needed.  Mostly I kept noticing how much Ani was manipulating people, and not just in her story to Officer Standall.  She was constantly manipulating Clay, her Mom, Jessica, etc.  It actually made sense that Bryce would fall hard for her.  He saw something in her that reminded him of himself.

As for Bryce, he was still a bad guy until the bitter end.  However, it's important to note, that even bad people will occasionally make good choices and do nice things for people.  And because of his wealth and privilege, it is far more likely that once Bryce got away from wherever this show is set, people would stop remembering the "horribleness" of high school.  I mean, we know from the evening news, that rapists (and even serial rapists) can go on to become very powerful people with the right sort of financial backing.  There will always be people who remember and will call them out on it...and always be people who frankly just don't care, making excuses for his behavior. 

I think I said this at the end of season 2, but ti's still very true.  Clay is in desperate need of therapy!!  Season 4 needs to focus on Clay and his issues.  He's now seeing and talking to two different dead people.  He gets emotional in very unhealthy ways and still thinks it's his duty to save everyone he cares about.

Finally, there's Tyler.  For whatever it's worth, I did not like Tyler in Season 1.  The peeping tom thing is disgusting.  His TV punishment was Monty and the mop.  I was willing to let that slide, because male rape isn't a common plot device, so I wanted to see how it played out.  Both the actor and the writing staff gave it the gravitas I was hoping the plot deserved.  I could see why he made the decisions he did, even if I did not agree with all of them.  And it set up yet another character who needs a good deal of therapy. 

[ljenkins782]

On 9/19/2019 at 4:01 PM, kirkola said:

Finally, there's Tyler.  For whatever it's worth, I did not like Tyler in Season 1.  The peeping tom thing is disgusting.  His TV punishment was Monty and the mop.  I was willing to let that slide, because male rape isn't a common plot device, so I wanted to see how it played out.  Both the actor and the writing staff gave it the gravitas I was hoping the plot deserved.  I could see why he made the decisions he did, even if I did not agree with all of them.  And it set up yet another character who needs a good deal of therapy. 

Tyler is such a fascinating (and depressing) character to me, mainly because he's not an entirely sympathetic victim. I can completely understand why he puts people off and how he wound up in the social situation he was in by high school (the peeping tom stuff plus his general social awkwardness).

But then they'd show him at home with his completely normal parents and healthy home environment (which is so obviously lacking in several of the other characters) and it makes his school difficulties all the more painful to watch. 

Regarding his relationship to the other kids this season, it made me a little sad to watch, because in real life, a kid like this would likely have just killed himself (or others and then himself) and wouldn't have that support. Especially because Tyler never really got closer to anyone and it's clear that his personality just doesn't really click with anyone, there aren't many kids who are willing to work that hard to connect with someone that awkward. I felt it in the scenes with Jess, even though she was trying, it was clear that she'd rather not be around him.

Quote

Especially since it was clear that when he had some intensive therapy last season, it really helped him so it made me feel that if he went back to the therapy, he could really work through his issues and trauma after being brutally assaulted by Monty. I don't think Tyler was ever a hopeless cause but he just needed the right kind of help. As well intentioned as Clay was with his daily babysitting schedule, I think that Tyler would have benefited more from going back to intensive therapy so that he could heal from the PTSD he had from being so violently violated.

The problem is that the first time he got intensive therapy, he attempted to approach Monty because of it and that's when the assault occurred. I have to believe that ALL the progress he'd made while he was away was destroyed in that moment and the memory of what happened the last time he tried to get help and improve himself would make it that much harder to try again.

Overall, I kind of enjoyed the season in spite of myself, but the ending was shit and flies in the face of everything the show had claimed to try to be doing in terms of bullying, etc. 

I also thought that they leaned so hard into the Bryce redemption arc throughout the season that they failed to balance it out with all of the terrible things that still existed in him. The very last episode felt like a sharp turn backward to the Bryce of season 1 after they'd spent the entire season acting as if he was on his way to being a better person. I'm fine with a rounded portrayal showing both sides, but you can't show all the good stuff in a row and then have the person slide back into being a dick in the very last scene, it was jarring.

I also thought the Monty plot was hastily wrapped up in a terrible way. Again, they went out of their way to show the roots of Monty's awfulness to the point where you start to feel bad for him in a way that you never would have after the bathroom scene. Then he just gets killed offscreen, the murder's pinned on him and everyone else just walks away. WTF? 

Agreed with everyone on the addition of Ani. I didn't hate her, but it just seemed such an odd choice to bring in a completely new character and make her the center of the season.

[RealReality]

On 8/23/2019 at 8:49 AM, 80sBaby said:

I'm on E4 and not feeling it like the past seasons.

I did enjoy the guys at Bryce's new school treating him like the rapist POS he was.

Not liking the Ani character. How does this new girl just show up and jump right into the mix with everyone telling her details?? None of these things in the past have anything to do with her but she's Miss Inspector Gadget eavesdropping, questioning people, and doing stakeouts with Clay...Really?

The scene with Jessica ..."freeing" herself was not needed and felt very out of place.

I keep wondering if this is how high schoolers talk to each other now.  Like "girl, I just met you and you're talking shit about me?  Maybe you need to find some other friends to sit with."

Immediately shittalking someone just wasn't how I made friends in high school.  Maybe I should have tried it....I could have possibly had more friends. 

[RealReality]

On 9/2/2019 at 9:22 AM, truthaboutluv said:

I guess that answers my question about what the general viewer reaction was to Ani's character. That said, people need to take a chill pill and get a fucking life and learn to separate fiction from real life. And oh the irony of bullying an actress because you disliked her character on a show ABOUT the effects of bullying, among other things. 

I read a few articles about it and I guess I don't see what the big deal is.  Everyone was commenting on how they hated the character....not the actress.  

I imagine the actor playing Bryce got a lot of the same.  Its not that people hate the actor they hate the character. 

I couldn't see where the comments veered into bullying the actress.....they just said the character of ani was awful....I agree.  Why is she mad that people don't love the character?  

Edited November 3, 2019 by RealReality

[Lady Calypso]

5 hours ago, RealReality said:

I read a few articles about it and I guess I don't see what the big deal is.  Everyone was commenting on how they hated the character....not the actress.  

I imagine the actor playing Bryce got a lot of the same.  Its not that people hate the actor they hate the character. 

I couldn't see where the comments veered into bullying the actress.....they just said the character of ani was awful....I agree.  Why is she mad that people don't love the character?  

I believe there WERE a lot of people (or just a loud minority) who were hating on the actress herself. There are some fans, especially younger ones, who either can't tell the difference between a character and the actress, or they simply don't care because they think ragging on the actress will change things. Especially if they're sending her DMs telling her this awful stuff, I can imagine why she'd shut down her account. And especially if the actress is trying to post about things not show related and the majority of her comments were about the character she portrays.

I wouldn't be surprised if she was receiving messages telling her that she, herself, sucks and shouldn't be on the show and probably some other nasty things that I wouldnt want to repeat. Because there ARE people out there like that, especially in the teen drama community. 

Seeing as the other actors on the show had to speak up quite quickly, it seems like a lot of the comments WERE starting to be about the actress herself. I think there were even some comments about how they blamed the actress for portraying the character who ruined the show. It's not the actress' fault; she doesn't write the show, nor does she dictate what her character does. So it's wrong to go to the actress' social media accounts to blame her. 

[RealReality]

52 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I believe there WERE a lot of people (or just a loud minority) who were hating on the actress herself. There are some fans, especially younger ones, who either can't tell the difference between a character and the actress, or they simply don't care because they think ragging on the actress will change things. Especially if they're sending her DMs telling her this awful stuff, I can imagine why she'd shut down her account. And especially if the actress is trying to post about things not show related and the majority of her comments were about the character she portrays.

I wouldn't be surprised if she was receiving messages telling her that she, herself, sucks and shouldn't be on the show and probably some other nasty things that I wouldnt want to repeat. Because there ARE people out there like that, especially in the teen drama community. 

Seeing as the other actors on the show had to speak up quite quickly, it seems like a lot of the comments WERE starting to be about the actress herself. I think there were even some comments about how they blamed the actress for portraying the character who ruined the show. It's not the actress' fault; she doesn't write the show, nor does she dictate what her character does. So it's wrong to go to the actress' social media accounts to blame her. 

I agree that the actress doesn't deserve to, herself, be excoriated over the character.  I wish the stories I read had been more clear, because the tweets that were featured were about how the character sucks and not how to actress....Gabi....sucks.  

[RealReality]

On 8/25/2019 at 1:58 PM, Sarahsmile416 said:

I would take Hannah’s ghost as narrator over Ani. She added nothing to this season, beyond acting as an apologist to Bryce.  

Its weird that no one, absolutely no one considered the optics of having a poor black girl..... whose mother is basically a servant to a rich white family.....be an apologist for a rich white, privileged rapist whose family her mom works for.....in a semi-   servant capacity.  

I like that they are adding diversity to the cast......but damn, maybe they could have had Ani and her mom in a better, more independent socioeconomic situation.  Maybe she and bryce could have met because Anis mom was the new doctor/physical therapist/liquor store owner.  Maybe Anis mom could have been an older sitcom star with some money.....maybe Ani could have had family money and met Bryce at the fancy school. 

But man, economically poor black girl from "downstairs" taking up for the white privileged rapist "upstairs" just makes me feel some kinda way.  

Edited November 3, 2019 by RealReality

[CeeBeeGee]

On 8/24/2019 at 4:41 PM, kj4ever said:

The only part of this story that redeemed this season was Tyler's arc.  I think it was done really well and stories like that need to be told also.  The actor knocked it out of the park.

The actor did a fantastic job. I've always despised Tyler (I haaaaaaaate creepers and Nice Guys) but damn if he didn't win me over. Beautiful work. (Though I still think that storyline is irresponsible--I'm terribly worried some impressionable teen is going to run out to pull a Clay on a school shooter and get murdered for his efforts.)

On 8/24/2019 at 11:01 PM, bettername2come said:

Bryce Walker actor is really fantastic, because he's really making me believe that Bryce feels bad and is trying to change. He's actually got me feeling slightly bad Bryce was murdered.

The guy playing Bryce is absolutely fantastic. He brings an incredible amount of nuance and charm--you can see how Bryce works, how he's able to turn the charm on and off like a light switch for his own aims. He's so good. ALL the actors are great--for all the problems I have with this show, they certainly have a strong cast.

On 8/24/2019 at 11:04 PM, Hellohappylife said:

 They are really just milking the show at this point. Everyone involved is a Junior at this point, so I’m amusing they will do 1 more season,just wrap it up for Senior year.  Unless they try to go the Degrassi route and change cast every 4 years and start over lol.... 

Aren't they in the fall of their senior year? I thought Hannah killed herself in October of their junior year, the trial was that winter/spring and the spring fling was, well, in the spring. And this is the following fall. (Although I thought Bryce was a year ahead of them which throws off that timeline, so what do I know?)

On 8/25/2019 at 1:54 PM, Last Time Lord said:

Can’t remember the episode number, so I’m spoilering this. 

  Hide contents

That a was the angriest blowjob recipient ever  

Teeth must've slipped...

On 8/31/2019 at 12:38 AM, rue721 said:

I was really bothered by the way that Monty was just disposed of like trash at the end of the season. He was vicious and needed to be held accountable for beating and raping Tyler, but we had two seasons of the town reeling over the tragedy of Hannah's suicide, and then another season of the town fighting for justice for Bryce of all people -- and then Monty dies and it's just "[shrug] How convenient! Let's let the dead bury the dead"? WTF. I'm assuming that next season will be at least somewhat about his death like this season was about Bryce's...or I'm hoping, anyway, because that really pissed me off.

I also think it's disturbing that this kid was running around telling everyone that his father was beating the shit out of him, he was casually saying he needed to squat in some abandoned building for a few days because his dad went after him with a hammer (S2), he was showing up at school with a broken arm and his "bff" Bryce told him his father must not have beat him hard enough because he's still an idiot (S2 -- that was immediately before he raped Tyler), he straight up told a couple unfriendly acquaintances (of all people) that he's routinely getting beat bloody with a police baton...and still literally nobody made any move to protect him. ANY move. I get why, Monty was thoroughly unlikable! He acted like a feral dog (at best). He did really grotesque things. But nobody deserves to be abused like that, get attacked and get their bones broken, and nobody's last moments on earth should be spent trying to wipe his father's spit from his face while his hands are in shackles. Ugh.

For a show about the dangers of letting people slip through the cracks, Monty definitely slipped through the cracks. He wasn't even subtle about slipping! On top of this abuse being an open "secret," he was also failing half his classes, eerily fixated on the most notorious predator in school (Bryce), dangerously and endlessly aggressive with his classmates, telling his guidance counselor that he has no future...I mean, he even told the COPS about his dad beating him. And they didn't do anything about it, either, apparently, because pretty much right afterward his dad comes to visit him in jail.

He needed to face consequences for beating and raping Tyler, at the least because he really didn't seem to grasp the gravity of what he'd done, and I think jail was far from the worst place he could be, but I also feel like -- how come there weren't similar consequences for his dad beating him with impunity for years? How come when it was a parent violently assaulting a child, the whole world apparently (tacitly) approved? There's a fair amount of emphasis this season on how it's re-traumatizing to have to see your rapist or abuser or bully in the school halls day after day, but what about living with them? And the show could have gone in that direction with Bryce and Ani, but frankly, I'm glad that they didn't. Maybe they'll go in that direction with Monty in flashbacks next season, I don't know.

...

Anyway, I like Jess pretty well, and her storyline was good but...eh, I feel like it's hard to get into her perspective. I think that the show is also really suffering from its gender imbalance and it really needs to have interconnected social circles of girls like it does guys if it wants to solve that. Which it probably doesn't have the time/focus to do now that there's only one season left, but...I really felt the lack of not just female characters but a sense of a female social "world" within the school. The HOs seemed isolated and underwritten compared to the boys' social circles.

Yes to ALL of the above re: Monty. What I'm most disgusted by is that Monty was arguably the most interesting new(ish) player this season--and they killed him off. We've seen Monty gradually coming to the forefront over the past two seasons. We've seen him act like a bully, we've seen him act like a fucking monster, we've seen his truly horrific home life. And then at the rich kids party--when he walked into Winston's room I remember a whole bunch of thoughts running through my head, like holy shit is THAT what's up? that actually fits all of the available evidence oh my God they're actually going there. Like, the tension in that scene was electric. And then they shocked me all over again (but upon reflection it felt very plausible) when he beats Winston. And they had the scene with the counselor--why go to the extra effort of showing how he could be so much more, how he's actually pretty intelligent, how utterly tragic his life is in many ways, if you're just going to casually dispose of him off-screen. I'm really, truly annoyed by this. This is just wasteful writing.

I didn't hate Ani--I was mostly indifferent to her--but why?????  Why couldn't we have had Courtney (where the hell was she this season?) or Sheri to be the narrator? We LOVE Sheri--bring her back. Buy out her contract for whatever other show she's doing and bring her back. Because whoever said Ani was kind of fan-fiction-y made a brilliant point. She's too smart, too good, too in the know, no apparent flaws. Just not feeling it. Bring back Sheri! Justice for Sheri!

Also yes to the underlined section above about the dearth of female characters. And no, the HO group, which was largely (not always but too often) cartoonishly shrill and confrontational. This show doesn't exactly pass the Bechdel test with flying colors.

Lastly, of all the strong actors in this very strong cast, the guy playing Justin blows me away. He's got incredible range.  I've been writing an actor-to-actor appreciation letter in my head because I think his work is so strong.

[ShortyMac]

22 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

The actor did a fantastic job. I've always despised Tyler (I haaaaaaaate creepers and Nice Guys) but damn if he didn't win me over. Beautiful work. (Though I still think that storyline is irresponsible--I'm terribly worried some impressionable teen is going to run out to pull a Clay on a school shooter and get murdered for his efforts.)

Aren't they in the fall of their senior year? I thought Hannah killed herself in October of their junior year, the trial was that winter/spring and the spring fling was, well, in the spring. And this is the following fall. (Although I thought Bryce was a year ahead of them which throws off that timeline, so what do I know?)

I didn't hate Ani--I was mostly indifferent to her--but why?????  Why couldn't we have had Courtney (where the hell was she this season?) 

Lastly, of all the strong actors in this very strong cast, the guy playing Justin blows me away. He's got incredible range.  I've been writing an actor-to-actor appreciation letter in my head because I think his work is so strong.

Agreed about Tyler.

Yes, they are in their senior year.

I looked it up, and I forgot that Courtney was even in Season 3. She's the one who told Clay to give Ani a tour of the school.

I love Brandon Flynn/Justin. The actor is amazing.

[BigDfromLA]

Principal Bolan should have been fired at the end of Season 1. Porter was justifiably fired for what he did and Bolan's actions were even worse. Look at all that happened on his watch. His regime was a true fiasco. Plus he is a pompous bureaucrat who only cares about covering his ass/self preservation. He must have really schmoozed the school board to still have his job.

For all of Bryce's attempts at "redemption", he sure showed his true colors during Homecoming, proving he was always going to be an evil asshole. 

I liked Ani, but maybe because I am 54 years old. All of you younger people probably know nosy busy bodies like her in your lives, who irriate the hell out of you! And think about it...Ani wasn't around during Bryce's rape spree, so it's understandable that she would be more sympathetic to him having not seen his evil side. 

So it was never mentioned HOW Monty died in his cell. Was he murdered? Was it suicide????

Interesting how so many people from the show completely disappeared...Sheri, Courtney, Sky, that idiot who was the former student body president whose name I forgot. 

All I have read about Season 4 is that it will be the final season. Also actor Gary Sinese will appear as a counselor or therapist who will work closely with Clay.

On 8/30/2019 at 5:33 PM, Marley said:

McKay’s facial expressions annoy me and I don’t care about any of the storylines anymore.

Who's McKay? You have the wrong show. McKay was a character in "Euphoria"...lol.

Edited December 29, 2019 by BigDfromLA

[Snow Fairy]

Coming too late to the party. But did we see what Ani told Jessica on the playground, before she ran with that bucket of paint?

[Bill1978]

9 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

Coming too late to the party. But did we see what Ani told Jessica on the playground, before she ran with that bucket of paint?

Yes we did. It's been so long that I can't remember but it was told in the episode that followed I believe. Or maybe it was the episode before. There is definitely an episode where we get to see/hear alternate views of the homecoming debacle.

[Snow Fairy]

I have to search it again, obviously. 

I agree that Alex's dad knows his son is involved and was on the pier. Maybe even Alex told him, how else could he know which clothes to take and burn?

Ani started ok, but as the season went on,became more and more annoying. And stupid.

Bryce was never going to change. Yes, he could try, but as we saw a few times, his temper comes out. Threatening to Zach while Alex tried to help him was low. Alex new Bryce can act on the threats.

[NUguy514]

Now that LA is basically in shutdown mode, I've finally had to focus to watch Season 3.

I was really, really bothered by the quasi-redemption arc for Bryce.  He's been shown until now to be gleeful in his psychopathy, and I was not interested in seeing him "humanized"; some humans are just bad.  Also, though, it seemed like the show wasn't sure what they were trying to do with this storyline.  Like, he would be seem to be sincere in, say, wanting to help Tyler but happily torment Clay some more.  I mean, Clay is easily tormentable, but still.  It also seemed like most of his interactions with the other characters were really unbelievable (that whole Alex-Bryce part was just laughably unbelievable).  It seemed like the show was trying to make Bryce complex since they were building the whole season around his murder, but I was just happy he was dead.  He was a serial rapist and a bully, and the (fictional) world is better off without him.  Frankly, I cheered Zach on when he beat the shit out of him because it was long overdue and I think Zach is great.  It's not believable that the police would've just let him go (especially after Sheri went to juvie for something much more accidental, in my opinion, that led to a person's death #justiceforsheri), but I can hand-wave it because I love Zach.

I will say that the one part of the Bryce storyline I liked was the focus on Nora, and that's because Brenda Strong was so terrific.  Her character seemed complex in ways that felt organic, and I thought Strong was just excellent throughout.  Her scene with Kate Walsh (who was also reliably fabulous) was one of the best scenes of the season.

The Monty storyline...I don't know.  On the one hand, see, Monty, it just feels so much better for everyone concerned when you use your own dick to fuck a willing participant.  On the other hand, you are also a rapist and a bully, and I'm not going to cry that you're dead either.  I think the attempt to humanize Monty was a smidge more effective than the attempt with Bryce because the closet really does kill, but I still had no sympathy for him because he was ultimately such a shit human being; regardless of what he was struggling with, you can do that without bullying and raping people.  And Winston, hon, all of us gay teenagers have had the fantasy about getting fucked by the hot jock (and Monty is very hot), but come on.  He beat the shit out of you right after you blew him; I don't care how hot his body is, you do not go back there.  I'm not interested in seeing you try to get justice for this guy: he was in jail for a sexual assault (that realistically should've been a murder) that was probably not his first, his being a closet case doesn't excuse the torment he wreaked on multiple people, and why do you care so much?  Because he fucked you for a night?  I'm sure it was great sex, but this is Stockholm Syndrome.  Yeah, I was really bothered by all of that.  I also thought Monty was fucking Charlie, but I guess not.

And yeah, like most, I hated Ani.  Frankly, Sheri would've been a much more interesting and welcome narrator (although she'd no sooner fuck Bryce than jump off the Golden Gate Bridge), and I'm only partially saying that because I LOVE Sheri, but the choice of this random new person was just off from the get-go.  It wasn't believable that she would've become insinuated with this group and everyone's secrets so quickly; seriously, why would any of them be so open with her?  I get why Alex's dad would go along with her story in that he just wanted any excuse to protect his son, but her story was bullshit.  Really, though, the writers just seemed like they couldn't decide what to do with her, or they didn't consider the optics of some of their choices regarding her.  I mean, she deliberately befriends Jessica, knows that Bryce raped her, and still fucks him multiple times?  What. the fuck.  They never sold me on why she would do that (because people are not one thing?  Or something?  No, girl, fuck no, and fuck you), and it made me hate her irrevocably.  She also completely led Clay on throughout the season, kissed him, blamed him for becoming semi-obsessed with her, and then decided to settle for him or whatever.  Ugh.  I loved how she cowered in fear of Clay after willingly fucking an actual serial rapist; this girl's priorities are fucked up.  Really, though, the most horrible thing she did was the exchange with Jessica at the end of the season when she told her that the worst thing she'd ever done was sleep with Bryce multiple times and immediately asked her what the worst thing she'd ever done was.  Had I been Jessica, I'd have been like, "One sec."

"That is the worst thing I've done.  Fuck off forever."  I hated that because Ani didn't really care about confessing something really terrible to Jessica; she was just trying to manipulate Jessica.  Seriously, fuck her, and I'm not looking forward to seeing more of her next season.

I didn't really care that Alex killed Bryce; I was just glad someone did.  Frankly, though, Alex's trajectory was kind of silly this season with the roid rage and the drugs and the ridiculous Bryce thing.  Whatever, he's not the most compelling character, so I'm fine with his being the murderer (and I'm not even sure he meant in the moment to kill Bryce, so it's really more like manslaughter).  Jessica just better not be punished for what he did; she's been through fucking enough.

What I loved, though, was how Tyler's storyline was handled.  While I don't think it's at all realistic that he could improve the way he did with the buddy system (and not need at least surgery after the rape), I really liked how much everyone rallied around him.  The scenes where he told Clay and Jessica what had happened to him were so powerful and so tremendously acted (especially by Druid and Boe).  And I love that his courage in publicly owning his survivor status allowed Justin to do the same, leading to another incredibly acted scene between Boe and Flynn (seriously, Boe is such an incredible listener, and Flynn is so honest).  That was really, really good stuff.

I also have loved watching the bond between Clay and Justin cement so unbreakably.  Their relationship is possibly my favorite on this show because I believe so strongly that each would do anything to protect the other; I think my jaw dropped when Clay gave Justin the oxy – that's hardcore trust and love, although very dangerous and inadvisable, but it probably ultimately allowed Justin to admit that he needed help at Thanksgiving.  There's a kind of purity to the love and loyalty they have for each other, and it's been so wonderfully and honestly developed.  It's similar to the Zach/Alex friendship, which I also love, but it's been given more focus and has been more interesting for me to watch.  It really did feel like it was those two boys against the world and like those two boys would survive because they had each other.

I think I liked this season more than last because there was more levity and because the trial was just too depressing, but there were many problems.  Thankfully, most of the cast (including Prentice and Granaderos, even though I didn't like what the writers were trying to do with their characters) made the experience of watching it more than worth it.