S11.E15: Life is Not a Cabaret

[njbchlover]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I was thinking about this whole thing with Bethenny and Luann.

I wonder if part of the reason that Bethenny freaked out so horribly at Luann is that she knows that Luann is not really "working the program" that AA outlines?  Luann is all about going to meetings, or at least she appears to be on the show, but is she really taking that program out into her life once she walks out of the meeting?  I mean, is she calling her sponsor when she feels like she needs/wants a drink?  Is she trying to follow the 12 steps?  

Maybe Bethenny (and probably the other ladies) are well aware that Luann, at the time of taping, is NOT doing what she is supposed to, and after all the assistance that Bethenny has offered, she feels that Luann is being a big hypocrite about the sobriety thing.  

Has Luann ever made amends to Bethenny or any of the other ladies?  Isn't that one of the biggest "steps" in the AA 12-step program?  I mean, I don't want to see that on the show, and I don't feel this show is the place for that, but, knowing what we know (that Luann was still drinking at that time), and knowing that Luann can be rather full of herself and has an "above it all" attitude, it stands to reason that Luann wouldn't think that one big step in the program should apply to her.  And, maybe, that is why Bethenny is so fed up with her.  Maybe, as Bethenny said, Luann really is "dining out on her sobriety" - using her supposed sobriety as a storyline, but not really living the sober life and kind of making a mockery of AA and what it stands for.

Edited June 14, 2019 by njbchlover

[Cherrio]

12 hours ago, Rahul said:

She's been a pompous, insufferable bitch since season one when she was married to the Count

There are two housewives I have disliked since the beginning. Luann and Vicki.

They are both despicable people for many reasons.

Rahul's post nails it.

[Cherrio]

6 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Luann is the 6th kid out of 7. They are all pretty close in age. I suspect during one of those childhood stages of personality development that Luann got lost in the shuffle. Plus her childhood home burning down and them being transient for a period almost certainly contributed to making her very selfish.

Thank you !   I have been thinking this for a long time, as to why Luann is the way she is.

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 hours ago, smores said:

Not the same as a Rolex, of course, but you might want to take a peek at Michael Kors watches.  They are often fairly substantially sized and would potentially be a substitute.   

Thank you!  You know me well.  I do have a huge gold Michael Kors watch, that I love.  Only cost me around $300 Canadian I think and I'd say it was well worth it.  I think it's this one.  Although now the gold is rubbing off and I want to replace it, but I think my model is gone from the site.

[janiema]

Caberet is Lu’s business and the performance  is her product. She has just as much right to talk up her product as any of the HW’s do to shill their skin care, wine, fashion line or tasteless diet products on the program. Lord knows we have had way too much Skinny Girl shoved at us over the years. What I think has upset the others is that she has been successful. Nobody but Bethenny is supposed to be successful.

As far as Luann in AA - she wasn’t sentenced to work a program. She was only sentenced to attend meetings probably with the hope but not the requirement that something would rub off. She was dumb to either not attend or document enough meetings. Only time will tell whether she is an alcoholic or whether she was just a person who made stupendously dumb choices while dealing with problems in her personal life.

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 hours ago, Rubyslippahz said:

Barbara is the saddest near-housewife ever.  And the part where they flayed her for her alleged bad energy was so mean.  I wonder what the goal with her casting was, if she was supposed to be Lu's sidekick or if she was supposed to bring some tough chick, sexually liquid vibe but what a fizzle.  

My hungover* brain way too quickly read this as "bad allergies" and I burst out laughing.  Like the housewives were flaying her for her bad allergies.  I wouldn't put it past them!!!

*Congratulations to my Raptors!  Congratulations to St. Louis also!  

[mostlylurking]

Oh Jesus that photo of Ramona and Harry...blech!  It makes me think Ramona is a horrible kisser she looked like she was trying to eat his face.  I agree with her about the guy Tins went on a date with though...why go out with a 60 year old if you want children?

I just loved everything about Tinsley this episode.  Loved her outfits, hair and makeup.  Totally fucking loved her telling Luann yes I'm having a drink so suck it.  Luann is just being horrible to everyone.  Dress code for an AA meeting?  What happened to not judging?  She's always been out of touch but I always liked Luann and thought she did have manners and knew how to act in public.  She's turned into a nightmare.

Once again I felt bad for Babs but once again I am reminded she should not be on this trip in the first place.  She's not a part of this group and "friends of" don't go on the trips with the regular cast.  Sorry Babs.

I understood what Sonja was saying about the AA meeting....sometimes when you hear other people's stories you internalize it and you take on that energy.  She took it to an extra level but I get it.  Same with Beth.  She didn't have to get so amped up but it's Bethany so you know it's going to happen.  She was totally right.  

[Gem 10]

21 hours ago, chenoa333 said:

PERFECT description of Beth! 

ETA: I'm really getting tired of Beth constantly bringing up her "f'd up childhood". Just about everybody I know claims they had a bad/sad/traumatic  childhood (including myself) but once that "cat is out of the bag" we don't feel it necessary to regurgitate the past on a regular basis. 

With this, I have to agree.  In my day, some kids had warm chocolate pudding waiting for them when they came home from school.  I had a key to let myself in with instructions to fold clothes, sweep the floor, etc.  I wore my sisters shoes and roller skates and clothes.  Some kids had money to go to the candy store, I never had money.  Not complaining, because I felt sorry my Mother had to break her ass to work.  Bethenny, according to her books, had turmoil in her house, but she came from a good neighborhood, had beautiful clothes, makeup, etc. and her Father Frankel took her to Aqueduct to the racetrack where she was happy and knew all the people there.  Her life was more craziness in the house .. mine was more not having too much, but I’m not complaining, just sayin.  I’m sure we all have stories to tell, but are now thankful for the lives we have now, right?  As long as I have a nice t.v., smart phone and my buddy the I-pad to snark on, I’m happy.  Doesn’t take much. Oh, and now I can buy anything my heart desires, thanks to a good husband, lol.

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, 65mickey said:

1000% agree with you.  Dorinda, Tinsley, Ramona, and Sonja all watched as Carole self destructed at the reunion last year. She was supposedly told to make up with Bethenny translation kiss her ass and beg for her forgiveness.  She didn't want to do this so she is cut loose. Bethenny didn't like Kristin, Heather either too pretty or too strong for her so they are gone. She took an immediate dislike to Jules so she is gone.  

Jules is beautiful, Kristin is pretty.  Heather?  Not for me, oh dear.  I wouldn't describe her that way.  Aviva is beautiful.  Luann, Dorinda.  But Heather???  I think too strong is probably the better reason.

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

11 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I'm bummed because next Wednesday is my birthday, and I wanted to see the aftermath scorched earth as a present! 😕

Do what we do and consider the days surrounding your actual burned date “your birth week!” Then the Thursday showcwill count as a giftie. 

[65mickey]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Jules is beautiful, Kristin is pretty.  Heather?  Not for me, oh dear.  I wouldn't describe her that way.  Aviva is beautiful.  Luann, Dorinda.  But Heather???  I think too strong is probably the better reason.

I didn't word that correctly. I meant Kristin and Jules were too pretty and Heather was too strong and at the time a successful business woman. She had no problem holding her own against Bethenny. 

[Happy Camper]

13 hours ago, film noire said:

Not sure how Sunny Hostin sharing that Frankel screamed at Sunny's little boy lands us in "Good Lord" territory - ? - she's talking about a personal event, not pronouncing on all things RHoNY (That's Meghan McCain's job ; )

And since Sunny's experience mirrored what happened in this episode,  I think it's on point re: Bethenny's grief for Dennis & Luann's entitlement being the real reason she behaved so badly - based on her past behaviour, it seems Bethenny screams at innocent kids and entitled alcoholics alike. 

I posted links around this in the Housewives in the Media thread.

[walnutqueen]

I had no idea that wood stain was available in spray cans.  Thanks, Barb!

[poeticlicensed]

18 hours ago, film noire said:

And this is who Bethenny is, full stop. She didn't go postal because of Dennis, or his overdose, Luann's entitlement, or the custody battle, or Jason or a millon other reasons. She did it because that's who she is, now: a woman who feels no hesitation (or remorse) about savaging people who have displeased her.

Yep. Beth creates her own chaos. For someone who should be living the life, she seems pretty miserable. I also think that she was she made a conscious decision to work herself up in that scene so she could play the victim. 

Look, Lu is insufferable. Always has been. Nothing Beth or anyone else says or does is going to change that. She jumped like a kamikazee into an ill advisied marriage, she drinks too much, she assaulted a police officer.  She was arrested and has been to rehab several times. For many that would be a humbling experience and one that acts as a catalyst for change. But not for Lu. She approaches sobriety with the same haughtiness as she did when she became a Countess. She never changes. Did Beth actually think that Lu would transform into a decent human being? The other thing is that we've all been there, we have a friend that we go out of our way for who doesn't reciprocate. I was friendly with someone who I emotionaly supported through her shitty divorce and financially supported by buying her crap when she was trying to get her business off the ground. I finnally figured out afterward that she was happy to take my support, but it wasn't a two way street. So I did what most sane people do, I didn't try to rip her a new one in public, I simply disengaged. When I see her I am polite and that's it. That's what normal people do. Beth wanted to have a meltdown on camera because she has to be the center of attention at all times. 

As for Sonja, I still think that she pines for the days of yachts and private planes. Lady Morgan doesn't want to be around the poors, or what she considers those who are not of her "caliber".  I don't think that the AA  meeting triggered her. I think she walked into the cabana and it wasn't fancy enough and there appeared to be normal people around who weren't wait staff, and she wanted to flee back to the mansion. For all her "quirkiness", she is a huge snob. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by poeticlicensed

[FozzyBear]

Re: Beth’s conversation with Barbara in the kitchen that she needed to go out and make friends with the women on her own and start her own connections. Without commenting of if Ramona and Beth were being bitchy (they were), I will say that was an interesting breaking the 4th wall moment. I 100% took that conversation to be about creating her own storyline since Lou has no interest in supporting the Barbara as Lou’s Savior story. I pretty much thought Beth’s advise was that Lou isn’t going to share her camera time with you so if you want to be cast next season you have to work with someone else on a new story. All that reminded me that Bravo and Andy have created a world where middle aged women join sororities and go through endless rush events as a job. Andy Cohen really is a dark, evil genius.  

[KungFuBunny]

8 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I had no idea that wood stain was available in spray cans.  Thanks, Barb!

Tan Barb Mom's message to walnutqueen:

First of all You're welcome!

Second, as you know I'm in construction, so my tip for the day, for the best even all over tan I lay down naked on the hardwood floor of one of my job sites and my foreman takes a lambswool mop with stain and rolls it right over me and the floor. I'm a multi tasker - so both the floor and myself are stained in one shot. I prefer more than 10 coats applied - but everyone has their own taste

[chenoa333]

37 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

With this, I have to agree.  In my day, some kids had warm chocolate pudding waiting for them when they came home from school.  I had a key to let myself in with instructions to fold clothes, sweep the floor, etc.  I wore my sisters shoes and roller skates and clothes.  Some kids had money to go to the candy store, I never had money.  Not complaining, because I felt sorry my Mother had to break her ass to work.  Bethenny, according to her books, had turmoil in her house, but she came from a good neighborhood, had beautiful clothes, makeup, etc. and her Father Frankel took her to Aqueduct to the racetrack where she was happy and knew all the people there.  Her life was more craziness in the house .. mine was more not having too much, but I’m not complaining, just sayin.  I’m sure we all have stories to tell, but are now thankful for the lives we have now, right?  As long as I have a nice t.v., smart phone and my buddy the I-pad to snark on, I’m happy.  Doesn’t take much. Oh, and now I can buy anything my heart desires, thanks to a good husband, lol.

Yes! This ^^^ is exactly what solidifys that Beth is what I call (and I'm going to quote Cesar Milan the Dog Whisperer: ) Bethanny is in the RED zone always. She starts out in the Red Zone. Never leaves it. Beth needs to spend 6 months at Cesars dog Psychology center to reprogram her brain.

And Gem10, I'm happy for you for being able to overcome your childhood issues. Hanging on to that $hit (like Bethenny) serves no purpose.  Except to hope for sympathy and attention.But that's who B is. Attention whore, jealousy/envy issues. It never ends with her. 

[chenoa333]

42 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

14 hours ago, film noire said:

Bethenny screams at innocent kids and entitled alcoholics alike. 

I think Bethenny qualifies as an alcoholic. I don't know what the technical/psychological standard is to be qualified as an alcoholic but Bethany sure qualifies. 

[izabella]

25 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

Look, Lu is insufferable. Always has been. Nothing Beth or anyone else says or does is going to change that. She jumped like a kamikazee into an ill advisied marriage, she drinks too much, she assaulted a police officer.  She was arrested and has been to rehab several times. For many that would be a humbling experience and one that acts as a catalyst for change. But not for Lu. She approaches sobriety with the same haughtiness as she did when she became a Countess. She never changes. Did Beth actually think that Lu would transform into a decent human being?

I think these women wanted to see Lu brought down low and humbled.  She foiled their desires by being herself:  Unhumbled, Unbowed, Unbroken.  Instead, it is the rest of them that are showing their ass all the time. 

Bethy screeches and hyperventilates at Lu every other season, and says the most horrible things without apology - WHORE! WHORE! WHORE!  Bethy screeches at Heather, Sonja and Ramona, and then dissolves into sobs at every opportunity when she's upset.  Sonja gets drunk every other episode and falls on the floor or gets weepy and goes into Madame Morgan vapors, and was downright nasty to Lu the night before.  Dorinda gets drunk every episode, and slurs and spits and screeches at someone, anyone, regularly.  Tinsley has a history of getting arrested for drunken behavior, drinks too much and falls all over any available guy on a date, and slurs her drunken words while trying to tell Luann that she's the drunk.  Ramona was a mess during her separation and divorce and was mixing alcohol and Xanax and falling asleep in the middle of shooting the reunion, not to mention her other hosebeast behavior which is standard for her, drunk or not.

NONE of these women are ever humbled by their own behavior!  Never!  Why should Lu - who seems the least screechy, and the least likely to go off on them whether she is drunk or sober, even when they are yelling in her face at full volume - feel the need to don sackcloth and ashes around them?  NONE of them are addressing their own issues and Bethy, Dorinda, Tinsley and Sonja have a boatload of them.  Ramona does, too, and no, the big boobs aren't making her feel better about herself, as is evidenced by her manic man hunt.

Bethy was right that Lu IS insufferable.  But no more than the rest of them, and I consider her far less insufferable than most of them.  They need to clean up their side of the street before constantly screaming at Luann about herself.

Damn, and I can't stand Lu, so I'm mad that I have now defended her.  WHORE! 

Edited June 14, 2019 by izabella

[sashayshante]

2 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

B should watch the first few seasons of this show.  She was my favorite.  Money has ruined her.

I'm not sure I agree. I think the B. we see now was always there, viewers were just shown small doses. Nobody just becomes that much of a self-obsessed, toxic narcissist. That kind of disordered behavior is always there under the surface. She's the product of bad parenting, too much attention and more money than she can spend.

[FozzyBear]

3 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

I'm not sure I agree. I think the B. we see now was always there, viewers were just shown small doses. Nobody just becomes that much of a self-obsessed, toxic narcissist. That kind of disordered behavior is always there under the surface. She's the product of bad parenting, too much attention and more money than she can spend.

I still really like Beth, but I can see why others don’t. I feel that way about all of these women. I can see why some like them and others don’t even when I feel differently. I do agree though that the money and divorce and legal battles don’t bring out the best Beth. I think Beth has a lot of emotional issues with money and power. Now that she’s often the wealthiest person in the room I think that she gets paranoid about being used. A paranoid Beth is not a fun Beth. A paranoid Beth is a control freak Beth. A control freak Beth is a hyperventilating at dinner Beth. If you give a mouse a cookie... 

[Yours Truly]

16 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

I just want to be clear when I preface this comment by saying that I see why Lu's attitude can rub people the wrong way, and I can see why some people don't like her.  I can see how people can perceive her to be a certain way, and then jump to all kinds of other conclusions about her too.  I can see why everyone is sick of the cabaret talk and all of that.  I get it.  I really do.

However.... that being said, as I watched Bethenny unravel and turn the evening into the Bethenny Show, I wanted someone to find a nearby pool and shove her into it to snap her out of her manic frenzy.  I wanted her to shut her big yap.    Bethenny was starting to make Kelly Bensimon on Scary Island look normal and level-headed.

Yes, Lu is a flawed person.  Yes, Lu is self-centered and almost everything else people think she is.    BUT, in no way, shape or form was Bethenny's reaction justified, or reasonable, or sane, or rational.  B's reaction to Lu was totally over the top and disproportionate to the whole situation.   B was downright aggressive and in Lu's personal space as she ranted and raved.

Bethenny's reaction to Lu was not really about Lu, when it boiled down to it.   Lu's attitude might have been the trigger or catalyst for Bethenny, but there is waaaaaaaaay more going on under the surface for Bethenny that had zero to do with Lu.    Bethenny can point fingers and direct all her hostility at Lu, but Bethenny has just as many issues.    They may not present in the same way that Lu's issues present, but make no mistake -- Bethenny is very screwed up too.  (Each and every one of them is screwed up in some way.)

For that matter, while this season's main story seems to be that everyone is sick of Lu, we all know that things change from season to season.   While Lu seems to be Public Enemy #1 this year, next year the anger and catty chatter will probably be directed at someone else.  We also know that we only see what the producers want us to see, but we really don't know much about what is happening or what is being said to whom when the cameras are not on these women.

I have no tolerance for groups of people who pile on to attack one person, and that's what they were all doing to Lu at the restaurant.  No matter how annoying, selfish, ungrateful, etc., she may be, it is cowardly to gang up on her and humiliate her like that -- especially when they know she is in a vulnerable place now, and is supposedly trying to stay sober.  In what universe do real, true "friends" think that it is a good idea to gang up on someone who might get upset enough to relapse and start drinking again?    Just stop talking to her and ignore her, or leave -- but why try to push her and get her upset?    The better approach for Bethenny to take would have been to talk to her privately, one on one, but then the producers wouldn't have the drama they want.

If I were Lu, I would leave the show and get away from those toxic shrews just to stay sober and not lose my mind, but I don't know if she is in that headspace now.

See that's my thing too. Okay so Lu's annoying. GEEZ! That's the only gripe they all keep referring to and every time it's the conversation I roll my eyes soooooo hard. Get over it already! It's not like she's someone that runs around CREATING drama and purposely tries to set up a situation where the goal is to have everyone sniping at each around the table (looking at you Rinna...) 

She usually inadvertently steps into shit due to her character flaws. The fact that they come at her like she intentionally wants to cause harm is what annoys the fuck out of me. Sure Lu does dish some of that back with her cool as a cucumber stares, facial expressions and quips but she's not starting a conversation that way. We only get those aloof reactions when someone's coming for her. That to me is a big difference.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Yours Truly

[whydoievencare]

18 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

How does that equate to Luann not acknowledging Sonja, and going to the beach alone? 

I never said that it did.

[Yours Truly]

4 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

Bethenny is a user. One minute she is mean and nasty to Barb. Then a light bulb  suddenly turns on in that conniving little head of hers and she sees a potential soldier for her little army of minions and she's all "Red Rover, Red Rover, we call Barbie over".

Oh totally. She practically lead with Lu not being supportive when she went over to talk to her. Opportunity to get Barbs on board the Lu hate since Lu just opened the door with her dismissal of Barbs revelation.

[Yours Truly]

3 hours ago, janiema said:

Caberet is Lu’s business and the performance  is her product. She has just as much right to talk up her product as any of the HW’s do to shill their skin care, wine, fashion line or tasteless diet products on the program. Lord knows we have had way too much Skinny Girl shoved at us over the years. What I think has upset the others is that she has been successful. Nobody but Bethenny is supposed to be successful.

As far as Luann in AA - she wasn’t sentenced to work a program. She was only sentenced to attend meetings probably with the hope but not the requirement that something would rub off. She was dumb to either not attend or document enough meetings. Only time will tell whether she is an alcoholic or whether she was just a person who made stupendously dumb choices while dealing with problems in her personal life.

Love this!!! I mean let's break it down here. The whole season the women have been attacking Lu over her caberet.... That is truly what the biggest issue has been. Then they pepper in her issues with alcohol to amp up the level of animosity they show towards her. There hasn't been one legitimate attack towards Lu this season that derived from some heinous act. I've said it before and I'll say it again. LU is annoying. She aggravates but at the same time I'm not a fan of people trying to change others. There are assholes in my life, I accept whatever roles they play in my life and determine the amount of energy I will expel in connection with whatever interactions I have with them. I also tell myself it isn't forever, I can walk away, steer clear, take a breather, whatever. These women treat their interactions with Lu as something they are trapped with forever. No, it's not and even on vacation together there are ways to limit the nonsense and keep your blood pressure from flying through the roof. GEEZ, Women, Get it together! SMH.

I don't think Lu is an alcoholic either. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Yours Truly

[dosodog]

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

Tan Barb Mom's message to walnutqueen:

First of all You're welcome!

Second, as you know I'm in construction, so my tip for the day, for the best even all over tan I lay down naked on the hardwood floor of one of my job sites and my foreman takes a lambswool mop with stain and rolls it right over me and the floor. I'm a multi tasker - so both the floor and myself are stained in one shot. I prefer more than 10 coats applied - but everyone has their own taste

Recovering tanaholic over here.  

I began subbing this year and a small group of 6th graders decided to nickname me Miss Spray Tan.

So when I heard one of them mutter it, I turned around and said:

It's not Miss Spray Tan.  It's Miss Fake 'n Bake.  If you're going to call me a name, get it right!

God bless Barbara for not being a housewife, but a normal gal who does normal things.  Including spraying wood stain near white furniture. 

1 hour ago, chenoa333 said:

Yes! This ^^^ is exactly what solidifys that Beth is what I call (and I'm going to quote Cesar Milan the Dog Whisperer: ) Bethanny is in the RED zone always. She starts out in the Red Zone. Never leaves it. Beth needs to spend 6 months at Cesars dog Psychology center to reprogram her brain.

And Gem10, I'm happy for you for being able to overcome your childhood issues. Hanging on to that $hit (like Bethenny) serves no purpose.  Except to hope for sympathy and attention.But that's who B is. Attention whore, jealousy/envy issues. It never ends with her. 

"Tsst".  Greatest South Park episode ever.

I really want to see Cesar say "It's about you, not about Bethenny. She is lucky you take her along".

And then Bethenny opens her mouth to disagree. But!  Cesar has anticipated it, uses his hand to bite her neck and she rolls over on her back, showing her belly, complete submission. 

Who am I kidding. Bethenny is a red zone dog.

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by dosodog

[sasha206]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

As for Sonja, I still think that she pines for the days of yachts and private planes. Lady Morgan doesn't want to be around the poors, or what she considers those who are not of her "caliber".  I don't think that the AA  meeting triggered her. I think she walked into the cabana and it wasn't fancy enough and there appeared to be normal people around who weren't wait staff, and she wanted to flee back to the mansion. For all her "quirkiness", she is a huge snob. 

I think Sonja knows if she doesn't continue to secure that apple, she isn't that far removed from being one of the poors.  That's probably where the tears really came from.

[RHJunkie]

16 hours ago, film noire said:

Exactly. 

And this is who Bethenny is, full stop. She didn't go postal because of Dennis, or his overdose, Luann's entitlement, or the custody battle, or Jason or a millon other reasons. She did it because that's who she is, now: a woman who feels no hesitation (or remorse) about savaging people who have displeased her.

As @watcherwoman mentioned, they played the RHoNY clip on The View and Megan McCain went into a laundry list of reasons defending Frankel (Bethenny's grieving, etc)  and Sunny Hostin cut her off and said Bethenny went after her young son in exactly the same way.  A boy playing on the beach in the afternoon was subjected to Frankel screaming like a lunatic at him. Bethenny's "reason"? The awful thing motivating her to lose her shit on a child?  Bryn (then a baby) was napping with an open window, and Hostin's son - deserving of being attacked merely for playing - and his friends were on Hostin's beach area during Bryn's nap time.

That's who Frankel has become.  It's not a phase, it's who she is. It's not a life event, it's who she is. The  charming wiseass who used to hawk muffins and cheerfully roller skate into the New York city night is no more.  In her place is a woman who vomits her unresolved rage and bitterness onto anyone annoying her, be it Luann, a stranger standing in her way at a concert, a woman with an eating disorder  - or a little boy playing on the beach.

I can't like this post enough. Bethenny has shown time and time again that this is who she is when she reaches her tipping point. The calmness she demonstrates when trying to counsel others on their issues is nowhere present when it comes to dealing with her own emotions. She's an emotional lunatic and that was well established long before Dennis' death. I'm certainly not having any bullshit excuses that her visceral reaction was exclusively due to her grief. Lu said that she has asked Bethenny about Dennis and how she's coping while Bethenny seems to be specifically calling out Lu's inconsiderate behaviour of not touching base with Bethenny and keep up with her life...which is something clearly Bethenny was doing for Lu when she was at her lowest. Bethenny has a fair point, she made a lot of fair points but that doesn't justify her behaviour to me.

And just my opinoin, but I think Bethenny outing Lu's lack of care for Dennis's death is motivated by her own guilt and anger. Bethenny didn't recognize him as her fiance until after he died but by her own admission, she didn't clearly accept his proposal. By her own admission in the past, her and Dennis were on and off for the past 2/3 years and there were other men in her life when he wasn't. In the end, Dennis was a constant for her. Someone who knew her and still stuck around and I think she had a lot of gult and anger because she didn't truly appreciate his loyalty and support of her until he died. She never fully committed to him because their situation wasn't ideal or perfect and she took for granted that they didn't have all of the time in the world to figure it out. She's trying to wrap her grief in this pretty package talking about them being engaged and how much she loves him but it's definitely more complicated than that.

[sasha206]

55 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

I'm not sure I agree. I think the B. we see now was always there, viewers were just shown small doses. Nobody just becomes that much of a self-obsessed, toxic narcissist. That kind of disordered behavior is always there under the surface. She's the product of bad parenting, too much attention and more money than she can spend.

There's the old saying that money only magnifies who you really are.

That said, I think her wealth and success has resulted in a lack of self-awareness that she used to have.  And I think it made her paranoid on the intentions of others.  

[itsadryheat]

On 6/12/2019 at 8:57 PM, whydoievencare said:

begging Dennis for 6 million to buy a house

My Luann favorite.

I need to try this with one of my friends boyfriends!

[ButterQueen]

1 hour ago, sashayshante said:

I'm not sure I agree. I think the B. we see now was always there, viewers were just shown small doses. Nobody just becomes that much of a self-obsessed, toxic narcissist. That kind of disordered behavior is always there under the surface. She's the product of bad parenting, too much attention and more money than she can spend.

Maybe so, but Beth was not who we see now.

I think Heather is beautiful, intelligent, strong, successful and happily married.  That’s why B hated her.

[izabella]

Someone upthread asked if anyone besides Lu had called Bethy a bully.  YES.  Almost all of them.

Dorinda:  https://realityblurb.com/2018/06/24/dorinda-medley-calls-bethenny-frankel-the-real-bully-of-rhony-says-ramona-singer-broke-girl-code/
 

Quote

Lastly, Dorinda fired back at allegations of being a bully and suggested it was Bethenny who was the real bully of RHONY.

“Let’s get real there’s one person who’s bullied, insulted, demeaned and mocked every one of us, and it sure as sh*t ain’t me,” she proclaimed.

Carole:  https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/carole-radziwill-defends-calling-bethenny-frankel-a-bully-on-rhony/

Quote

The Bravo stars’ feud boiled over in the second part of the 10th season reunion when Radziwill criticized Frankel, 47, for her behavior. “All you did this season was bully, brag and bitch,” she said. “That was it."

The former journalist, who announced on July 25 that she was exiting the Bravo hit after her sixth season, then referred to her phone to remember all the ways Frankel had dissed her over the course of her season. “What she does is, she creates this narrative, this false narrative about me, this false narrative that I’m some girl who’s this, this and this,” she told host Andy Cohen during the reunion. “It’s completely false. Half of it is lies.”

When Frankel interrupted her, Radziwill shot back, “Are you going to continue to bully me, or am I going to be able to speak?”

Ramona: https://www.realitytea.com/2017/06/09/ramona-singer-thinks-bethenny-frankel-bully-manipulative/

Quote

Ramona continued looking for sympathy: “Then when I watched how she talked about me during her interviews! Wow, yes wow, like really! How mean can she get? She really is a bully. I do not think she realizes what she says to others, nor do I think she really cares. That’s not about being BReal or BStrong. I call it BBully.” Lol at Ramona using Bethenny’s branding strategy to BInsulting. Ramona asserted, “You can’t always play the victim while being the bully.” How was Bethenny being the bully in that conversation?

Ramona at the Reuinon: https://toofab.com/2018/08/22/rhony-bad-apple-of-the-week-bethenny-gets-blasted-on-reunion-as-liar-mean-girl-opportunistic-bitch/

Quote

At a later point in the evening, Ramona attacked Bethenny for her interview bites, claiming Bethenny "never has anything nice to say" about any of the Housewives.

"You're gonna end up alone because you're bitchy to the men you're with," Ramona said. "You are. You are the mean girl. You are the bully."

"I don't care what you think. I don't wanna talk to you," Bethenny fired back. Ramona replied by yelling, "We all think this!" and pointed at every single one of the ladies, stopping at Sonja and saying, "You -- you're just a puppy here."

Jules describes her bullying behavior without using the word bully: https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2016/07/bethenny-frankel-jules-wainstein-fight-rhony-recap/

Quote

“Your sense of humor is at other people’s expense. My sense of humor is at my expense. Because I don’t want to hurt people’s feelings. And you make fun of other people because you don’t care about other people’s feelings.”

Like a true mean girl, Frankel becomes very hurt by Wainstein’s comment (mean girls never like to be told they are mean). Meanwhile, Wainstein has done what no other housewife has done before, and that’s hold up a mirror to Frankel’s harsh behavior.

And I'm sure we all remember Kelly being upset about Bethy's "systematic bullying" at one of the reuinons.

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, njbchlover said:

I wonder if part of the reason that Bethenny freaked out so horribly at Luann is that she knows that Luann is not really "working the program" that AA outlines?  Luann is all about going to meetings, or at least she appears to be on the show, but is she really taking that program out into her life once she walks out of the meeting?  I mean, is she calling her sponsor when she feels like she needs/wants a drink?  Is she trying to follow the 12 steps?  

If Luann isn't working the program, it's not good, but not a reason to freak out like a madwoman.  I agree, someone should have pushed BetheME into a pool to stop that insane frenzy.  I can't listen to advise from an insane person.  And I still remember BetheME screaming at Luann, "YOU FUCK EVERYBODY."  Why is that YOUR business, oh, that's right, because everything in the world is about BetheME.

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I think these women wanted to see Lu brought down low and humbled.  She foiled their desires by being herself:  Unhumbled, Unbowed, Unbroken.  Instead, it is the rest of them that are showing their ass all the time. 

Bethy screeches and hyperventilates at Lu every other season, and says the most horrible things without apology - WHORE! WHORE! WHORE!  Bethy screeches at Heather, Sonja and Ramona, and then dissolves into sobs at every opportunity when she's upset.  Sonja gets drunk every other episode and falls on the floor or gets weepy and goes into Madame Morgan vapors, and was downright nasty to Lu the night before.  Dorinda gets drunk every episode, and slurs and spits and screeches at someone, anyone, regularly.  Tinsley has a history of getting arrested for drunken behavior, drinks too much and falls all over any available guy on a date, and slurs her drunken words while trying to tell Luann that she's the drunk.  Ramona was a mess during her separation and divorce and was mixing alcohol and Xanax and falling asleep in the middle of shooting the reunion, not to mention her other hosebeast behavior which is standard for her, drunk or not.

NONE of these women are ever humbled by their own behavior!  Never!  Why should Lu - who seems the least screechy, and the least likely to go off on them whether she is drunk or sober, even when they are yelling in her face at full volume - feel the need to don sackcloth and ashes around them?  NONE of them are addressing their own issues and Bethy, Dorinda, Tinsley and Sonja have a boatload of them.  Ramona does, too, and no, the big boobs aren't making her feel better about herself, as is evidenced by her manic man hunt.

Bethy was right that Lu IS insufferable.  But no more than the rest of them, and I consider her far less insufferable than most of them.  They need to clean up their side of the street before constantly screaming at Luann about herself.

Damn, and I can't stand Lu, so I'm mad that I have now defended her.  WHORE! 

THIS EXACTLY! And from a Lu non fan too. Awesome! 

The bolded is what I love about LU. I actually don't think her, condescension or haughtiness as bad behavior. Most times she's gotten decisively extra indignant complete with some quippy jabs it has been in response to yet anothers attempt at humbling her. I've never seen such a mission to bring someone down as I've seen the way these women have continued to come after Lu season after season.

I've seen it as her armor and I see it as her way to keep a stiff upper lip. It has served her very well in life and these women deem it as something terrible. She doesn't wield it like some weapon All. The. Time. like they try to imply but she has brandished it frequently in recent times because things have really gone side ways in her life so she's leaning on that even harder now. Not to mention she's had to fight the others off way more now that they have such juicy ammo to use against her at any and all opportunities.

I think Lu puts her foot in her mouth at times and can have a nasty quip at the ready on occasion but I've never found her to truly come after any of the other FOR NO REASON. Whenever she's been deliberately nasty its usually through drama that's manifested by someone else. Carol, there was inappropriateness on her end that started the conflict. Alex actually confronted Lu in a rather rude way. Beth, well she just starts screaming at Lu at any given moment (remember that random rant at Lu during the fashion show?) I mean shit.  

I get that Lu puts some people on edge by her airy, and what some may describe as aloofness but hell I see a chic that ain't got time for the bullshit especially when that bullshit involves taking aim at her. I think Lu knows exactly when someone will decide that are "offended" by her demeanor and try to come at her for it so I'm guessing that's when some people start to feel a bit of chilliness from Lu.  Lu does put it on a bit when she realizes there's going to be a pissing match like when Carole joined the group. Carole was all kinds of critical towards Lu and I think that's when Lu starts laying on the unbothered, you're not even in my lane vibe as a preemptive measure. That usually starts the animosity and the desire for the need to take Lu down but yeah. 

I feel like I can read Lu for what she is and how she operates and I am so here for it. I think she's off her game a bit with the lack of alcohol and you know life hitting her as hard as it has these last few years so she's been rough around the edges and lacks her usual ability to try to keep the mood mellow during social situations (eggs a la francais anyone?). Say what you will but Lu has shown to be a person that tries to defuse chaos, not deliberately ramp shit up. Lately she doesn't give a rats ass to even keep the peace as much as she used to. I have loved how Lu has stood her ground in many seasons. Sometimes she doesn't succeed in her delivery and she doesn't resolve the underlying problem at hand due to the clumsy way she handles her own conflicts. She misses the mark too often and she ends up making things worse cause she automatically goes into disgust, "look at you" mode as a defense making things worse and doing nothing for her cause. The others think is some cruel tactic when in reality she's just hiding behind it cause she doesn't really have much to say in retaliation. She uses quips and body language to deliver her counter punches which a lot of times involve the wrong points for the situation. 

I didn't mind her interaction with Sonja afterwards either. Sonja's a lot like Lu. Sonja's an attention seeker sure but she doesn't really like to have some drawn out conflict or hold on to the petty stuff. She too likes to hug shit out, let shit go, keep it moving and not let it linger so Lu's quick hug, let's just drop it is right up Sonja's ally. Annnndddd, Sonja is also famous for changing the subject, dismissing a conversation before people are even done sharing just in the name of keeping things happy and not drifting too deep into a conflict. She did it with Tinsley and she's done it with Lu in previous seasons. She likes things to go away also. Especially when she's been bad. LOL

[Sheenieb]

Quote

She feels entitled to everything she can get out of you.  The epitome of a user.  

That sums up Luann. Bethenny was extra AF, and I didn't like the circling the table bit, but I get why she gave Lu all the smoke. I think at that moment, she realized that she got played. She spent all of her energy helping Luann when Dennis was going through his own shit. Bethenny's time would've probably been better spent on him. Now, of course, we have no way of knowing if the outcome would've been different, but I get why it stings.

With that being written, the lesson in all of this is this: when you do things for someone, you have to do it because you want to. Don't go in expecting praises and thanks because you probably won't get it. That's hard, of course, because we're human and we want our efforts acknowledged. 

Luann has always been entitled and arrogant. She expects everyone to show up for her, but whenever the other women are going through some shit, the 1000 yard stare happens and Luann tunes out. She did it to Jules when Jules was upset about her father, to her own son when he was a child and told her that she always missed taco night and he wanted her home, and to Sonja when she was going off about the AA meeting (I thought Sonja was extra and ridiculous too, but damn, at least listen, Lu). 

I do admire Lu's ability to remain unflappable whenever someone's yelling at her. That's quite the superpower. Either that or since she lacks empathy, the emotion doesn't register. 

[ButterQueen]

3 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I don't think they ever left mug-shot territory!  It always surprises me when I read how beautiful people think she is on this forum.  I see those horrible eyebrows, a nose job that left her without much of a nose, and heavy, heavy makeup.  I just see a skinny blonde who can look reasonably attractive.

I don’t find her beautiful either.  Her tiny nose and gravely voice.

[kicksave]

7 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

This is exactly the situation with Sonja. At one point in this episode she said that Quincy's father is old and won't be around much longer to "fill in the gaps".

Right away I understood what she meant by that.

Sonja needs to sober up and get real about her alcohol problem if she wants to be there for her daughter...her behavior this season is concerning and as a mother myself, I would not want my kids to see me like this in front of millions of people. Sad.

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, sashayshante said:

I'm not sure I agree. I think the B. we see now was always there, viewers were just shown small doses. Nobody just becomes that much of a self-obsessed, toxic narcissist. That kind of disordered behavior is always there under the surface. She's the product of bad parenting, too much attention and more money than she can spend.

I've felt this way about B since season 2 (that's when I started watching, went back and saw season one after) and the very first scene I saw of Beth was her in the pool talking to I think Lu about Kelly (who was new to the cast that season) and she already had a bone to pick with the girl. Something about meeting her several times and her acting like she didn't know Beth every time they were at the same social event. I remember thinking, who is this chick and why is she that mad over a someone she's not too close with about the fact that the girl wasn't fawning all over Beth acknowledging their brief introductions at previous events?

Right then and there I caught the mean girl vibe and I was right cause she was a mean girl even in the early seasons. I recoginize bullies quick and she has always left a bad taste in my mouth. Her mean spiritedness was plainly evident right away. Rude and obnoxious behavior, blah. She's never been my cup of tea. 

[poeticlicensed]

8 minutes ago, Sheenieb said:

the lesson in all of this is this: when you do things for someone, you have to do it because you want to.

Exactly. 

[AnnA]

59 minutes ago, Sheenieb said:

 the lesson in all of this is this: when you do things for someone, you have to do it because you want to. 

50 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

Exactly. 

No.......Not always.  

Sometimes we do things for someone because it's the right thing to do... 

.....Or because there is no one else there to do it.  

.....Or because we feel obligated.  

Edited June 14, 2019 by AnnA

[Chit Chat]

For Bethenny, sung to the song 'Chic - Le Freak'.

Ah, freak out!
Le freak, c'est chic
Freak out!

Have you heard about LuAnn's arrest?
Listen to me, while I get this off my chest.
Have fun, that's all she wants to do
She messed up big,  she's surely in deep poo.

Ah, freak out!
Le freak, c'est chic
Freak out

I tired to help, but didn't get a thanks
And for that, I think I've got the cranks.
It's called 'Le freak', I'm having a meltdown
Let me yell, while I remove her crown.

Le freak, c'est chic
Freak out!
Ah, freak out!

All that pressure surely got me down
It left my head spinning all around.
Feel my heartbeat, 'bout to pop a vein
I had to say it, you can't stop this train.
My younger days are raging in my head
Now I freak,  I am a shade of red.
Can't shut it down, I'm in too deep
Oh dear, I've made the ladies weep.

Le freak, c'est chic
Freak out!
Ah, freak out!

[njbchlover]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

If Luann isn't working the program, it's not good, but not a reason to freak out like a madwoman.  I agree, someone should have pushed BetheME into a pool to stop that insane frenzy.  I can't listen to advise from an insane person.  And I still remember BetheME screaming at Luann, "YOU FUCK EVERYBODY."  Why is that YOUR business, oh, that's right, because everything in the world is about BetheME.

Oh, I get it, and I agree - Bethenny was clearly completely out of control and out of line.  I was just trying to come up with reasons of why she would snap that way.  Reasons other than the obvious that have been stated here - that she's narcissistic, feels she has to be the center of everything, she's mean, etc.

Believe me, Bethenny is not one of my favorite housewives, in fact, she annoys me more than entertains me these days (I did like her in Season 1 - 3), but I've come to expect her being a know-it-all and being a caustic bitch.  For the most part, I have always liked Luann - except for this season.  I find Luann this season to be just as narcissistic and selfish as Bethenny can be.  I've been one who has rooted for Luann over and over, even though I have come to expect her to be a snobbish, condescending woman.  When Bethenny went at her at Dorinda's house, calling her a slut, etc., I was completely in her corner.  But, this season, something just seems different with Luann.  It's as if her cabaret show is giving her a feeling of superiority over the other women.  To me, Luann is not a stupid woman, and it seems like she should not be so delusional as to think that this cabaret show gig is anything but an extension of the RHNY.  It's sad to see Luann thinking she is some amazing entertainer, some type of modern-day chanteuse.  It's bothersome to me that she can't see that if she loses her RHNY gig, the cabaret act will also end.  She should be just enjoying it for what it is - a flash in a pan.  It also bothers me that I agree with Bethenny, to a degree, that she is using her pseudo-sobriety as her storyline.  Luann seems to consider herself "above" the other woman because she is supposedly sober.  

And, maybe Luann's "me, me, me" behavior is hitting a little too close to home for Bethenny - too much a "reflection" of her own behaviors?  I don't know.

What I do know is that this is one of the many reasons why RHNY is my favorite franchise.  Each season, I am liking/disliking different woman, for the most part.  They each do and say things from season to season to make me like or not like them.  There really isn't any one of them that I completely detest.  Plus, they seem to put their differences aside faster than the women on the other franchises and they keep it moving.  

It was just a jarring episode to watch.  Bethenny is obviously hurting from something or a multitude of somethings, and this explosion was the cork popping out of the champagne bottle of her life.  I honestly think there is a lot more to this story (even more than Bethenny spilled) that we don't know that caused Bethenny to flip out to this degree.  

Edited June 14, 2019 by njbchlover

[ButterQueen]

I thought production was blurring Ramona’s nipple when she was in bed.  Then I find out it was her holding one of her products.  😂😂 Was production blurring the label?

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

Unhumbled, Unbowed, Unbroken.

I learned long ago that every one has a lesson for me. Thanks to @Yours Truly for this phrase because for all the ways I do NOT want to copy Luann deCrackerjacks, I DO plan to keep this as a mantra when useful.  (Sadly, I still have  a few such people in my life as to make it useful.)

I thought Carole went after Lu in London because one faux royal recognized another and didn’t want any extra stank on her. And when Lu repetitivelyr exclaimed to Carole that she just couldn’t believe they hadn’t run into each other during their married days in London, Carole saw a real threat to her “princess” mystique.  “You don’t know Mimsy & Borogrove? Darling, are you sure you were even there??!!”

I also recall Carole (I’m pretty sure) getting very Annoyed that Lu stride to the head of the pack during walks, etc., and that seemed entirely improbable. Any journalist knows the importance of getting there first. Point being, Lu remains and Carole's ... still got more money than me.  But yeah, Lu has a lesson or 2 to teach. 

[chenoa333]

14 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

Bethenny is obviously hurting from something

Yes. It's an overdose of envy sprinkled with insanity. 

[kicksave]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

I've felt this way about B since season 2 (that's when I started watching, went back and saw season one after) and the very first scene I saw of Beth was her in the pool talking to I think Lu about Kelly (who was new to the cast that season) and she already had a bone to pick with the girl. Something about meeting her several times and her acting like she didn't know Beth every time they were at the same social event. I remember thinking, who is this chick and why is she that mad over a someone she's not too close with about the fact that the girl wasn't fawning all over Beth acknowledging their brief introductions at previous events?

Right then and there I caught the mean girl vibe and I was right cause she was a mean girl even in the early seasons. I recoginize bullies quick and she has always left a bad taste in my mouth. Her mean spiritedness was plainly evident right away. Rude and obnoxious behavior, blah. She's never been my cup of tea. 

Bethenny has a lot of pathology...dysfunctional family,  poor parenting, almost non existent relationship with her father, narcissism...mix in her controlling personality and it’s a nightmare. I don’t think she’s capable of having normal friendships or relationships. 

[Yours Truly]

8 minutes ago, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

I learned long ago that every one has a lesson for me. Thanks to @Yours Truly for this phrase because for all the ways I do NOT want to copy Luann deCrackerjacks, I DO plan to keep this as a mantra when useful.  (Sadly, I still have  a few such people in my life as to make it useful.)

I thought Carole went after Lu in London because one faux royal recognized another and didn’t want any extra stank on her. And when Lu repetitivelyr exclaimed to Carole that she just couldn’t believe they hadn’t run into each other during their married days in London, Carole saw a real threat to her “princess” mystique.  “You don’t know Mimsy & Borogrove? Darling, are you sure you were even there??!!”

I also recall Carole (I’m pretty sure) getting very Annoyed that Lu stride to the head of the pack during walks, etc., and that seemed entirely improbable. Any journalist knows the importance of getting there first. Point being, Lu remains and Carole's ... still got more money than me.  But yeah, Lu has a lesson or 2 to teach. 

I actually quoted IZABELLA's post. And I agree, Love the phrase.

[izabella]

14 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I actually quoted IZABELLA's post. And I agree, Love the phrase.

And I have to credit Game of Thrones, because "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" is the motto of one of the royal families.  I just switched to add Unhumbled.  😀

[Yours Truly]

I'm wondering why the ladies only attribute the cabaret show to Lu's behavior? I mean hello. She's just been married/divorced, arrested, sued, in rehab and its the haughtiness brought on by the cabaret that's the culprit of Lu's winning personality this season. 

I think Lu's change in behavior has to do with all the shit that's been going down in her life and the show is actually the only thing that brings some of the old "be cool, don't be uncool" Lu to the forefront. She is rightly giddy about her show. She has fun, she has fans, she entertains and it's all a hoot. She gets some income off of it to boot. 

I think the attitude is coming from being in a not so great place, she doesn't have the energy to be all about the social graces which lets face it that shit pissed them off too so why the fuck should she waste energy that would be better spent elsewhere to pretend with these heifers? To me she seems to be excited about her show and wants to show it off and she wants to ride the wave. That's what Lu does. She enjoys shit while she can, she soaks it up and she's relishes in it. What's so wrong about that? So what she talks about the show. She's excited about it and in all honestly I haven't really seen anything that outlandish beside her needed to give it a rest with the ladies cause they are obviously sick to death of it.  Is that really worth all this venom?

The ladies constantly carry themselves with thinly veiled resentment towards Lu so it doesn't surprise me that we've seen a lot of the gives two shits Lu this season. Granted she's always been in her own world but she did used to have a handle on conducting herself in a social setting for the most part. That chic ain't here this season. It's true that bitch ain't thinking about any of these bitches cause they are rather open about how much Lu is aggravating them. Who wouldn't be strutting around with an extra dose of "go fuck yourself then" if you're constantly faced with women that are gonna jump on EVERY THING YOU DO or SAY. These women jump at the chance to scold Lu for any minor infraction and it's driving me up the wall.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Yours Truly

[Cherrio]

29 minutes ago, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

I thought Carole went after Lu in London because one faux royal recognized another and didn’t want any extra stank on her. And when Lu repetitivelyr exclaimed to Carole that she just couldn’t believe they hadn’t run into each other during their married days in London, Carole saw a real threat to her “princess” mystique.  “

My take is the opposite.  Carole thought Luann was obnoxious and a joke so she was making fun of her.

Carole has a much different way of being a princess/kinda a Kennedy thing. She also has a brain, has accomplished quite a bit and seems genuine. Luann is about as genuine as pleather.

They also run/ran in much different circles. Carole knows real society and has bonafide big shot friends.

Luann by this point in the show had already done her Indian imitation at dinner and tried to score free clothes from Carole's designer friend.  Luann is mentioning In-Style or some other lowly mag thinking its some big enticement to the designer, while Carole has to remind her he has dressed The First Lady.