S08.E04: The Last of the Starks

[KatWay]

1 hour ago, JennyMominFL said:

Basically Jon is like Prince William’s son George and Dany is like Harry’s newborn son. It would not matter what sex Harry’s child was, William’s kid comes first . Harry’s kids do not become next in line until all of William’s kids and Harry himself die.

actually, Dany is Harry in that scenario, isn't she? but the point stands, Harry dropped to 5th in line instead of 2nd with every child of William's. The children of the heir have a stronger claim than his siblings, that's just how it works.

[Andromeda]

5 hours ago, millennium said:

Because it's too glaring an error to have been random, IMO.   Because ever since it became a meme I keep seeing/hearing Starbucks and Game of Thrones mentioned in the same breath.   Talk about product placement.

The producers have admitted the mistake. I don't think it's a Starbucks cup. It came from craft services, as all food on set usually does. But it is an amazing error for a show this expensive.

5 hours ago, rmontro said:

Targaryens drink piping hot dragon heated Starbucks coffee.  So should you.

Brewed from the finest hand-picked and sorted java beans, grown on the slopes of Mount Valyria, from volcanic soils rich with nutrients and the perfect temperate semi-tropical climes...

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

He's known they were his cousins for like a minute - he's known them as his siblings his whole life. That feeling doesn't change just because you get new information.

23 hours ago, rmontro said:

Apparently that was enough for Varys, though he's known Dany since she was a baby!

Edited May 7, 2019 by Andromeda

[Law Mom]

If I were Ghost I would rather hang out with Tormund in the North any day. Upgrade.

[rmontro]

5 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Is coffee even a thing in Westeros?  I can't remember anyone every drinking it.  I recall people drinking ale with breakfast, but I don't remember any coffee.  

Lots of snow in Winterfell to make frappacinos.

[Athena5217]

My new standard response whenever someone points out a mistake I made is “At least I didn’t leave a coffee cup on the Winterfell banquet table.”

[Cheezwiz]

1 hour ago, Calamity Jane said:

I have not gotten over Ghost looking so sad. Missandei has been on the danger list for a while, Arya and Gendry were unlikely to last, Jaime leaving Brienne was foreseeable — but for Ghost to survive and then get sent away, it’s breaking my heart. My son believes it means Jon will end up in the North. I’ll hope for that. 

Man, that image of an imaginary CGI critter with a downcast face is STILL killing me! I feel so much more emotionally attached to the the creatures on this on this show than the humans. Apparently from the fan uproar after this ep, I'm not alone.

[VCRTracking]

[Cheezwiz]

Really the only GoT spin-off worth watching (courtesy of Salma Mattar @IAmTheRainXoxo on Twitter). 

[Andromeda]

4 hours ago, GraceK said:

I also don’t blame her for feeling paranoid in that environment. She has lost so much in the North and is still being treated as an interloper, Sansa is giving her stink eye every second , Tormund is praising Jon for riding Dragons like she doesn’t exist, and there are people plotting to put him on the throne or at the very least talking shit behind her back. I mean hello???? She knows she has no support there really, and Jon is gradually pulling away and she loves him. And no one gives her any passes for the fact she is also grieving and is human as well, and maybe is a little fragile herself.  No, she’s just evil and entitled and a maaad Queen 🙄

What blows me away is none of the (drunk) young men there were even attempting to chat her up or hit on her. Hello!! Do you SEE the hot, young awesomely dressed and coiffed female that is in front of you? The men of Essos had no trouble seeing it. What's with these Northmen anyway? Did their balls freeze off? It felt...ewwwy. Like they're all part of a schoolyard clique and hating on the new girl because she's "different."

[MJ Frog]

3 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

What blows me away is none of the (drunk) young men there were even attempting to chat her up or hit on her. Hello!! Do you SEE the hot, young awesomely dressed and coiffed female that is in front of you? The men of Essos had no trouble seeing it. What's with these Northmen anyway? Did their balls freeze off? It felt...ewwwy. Like they're all part of a schoolyard clique and hating on the new girl because she's "different."

I think it had a lot more to do with her being the Queen and Jon's lady. Would have been pretty damn weird if they HAD hit on her, IMO.

[Dobian]

6 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Even Brienne was not spared.  After making her a strong warrior they reduced her to a sad love scene where the man did not even celebrate her body or that she was willing to share it with him for the first time, to a desperate pathetic mess BEGGING a man not to leave her for another woman.....not to mention they gave her the most flawed man in the first place who was sleeping with his sister instead of someone who wanted her as she was and has always been somewhat honorable.  Then instead of using the airtime to show Jaimie worshipping their interaction, they chose to spend it on Tyrion shaming her for being a virgin AND time for him and Jaimie to JOKE about his having sex with her!  Unbelievable. 

I look at this the other way.  If Brienne and Jamie had some happy ending then it would have been just a fan wank.  Same as if Arya accepted Gendry's proposal.  But Arya is destined to be a warrior queen and Jamie, reformed or not, put yet another incest baby in his sister's belly.  I think he does value Brienne but also knows that his fate is tied to his twisted history with Cersei.

[Andromeda]

34 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

LOVE IT. I think this is amazing. I watched the Sarah Connor Chronicles (me and five other people) and saw the Terminator: Genysis in the theaters. What a funny thing for them to have in common.

[RealReality]

I don't think the Starbucks cup was a gaffe.  I think Starbucks wanted to get in on GOT mania and this was the best and most inventive way to do it.  

A GOT drink would have allright but it wouldn't have garnered as much buzz as this has, and I'll bet it was tons cheaper.  Good for all parties involved, I didn't even see it until someone told me to Google it so.it didn't ruin the show.for me at all.

[RealReality]

On 5/5/2019 at 7:28 PM, Neurochick said:

Does Euron really think Cersei’s baby is his?  If so, he’s too dumb to live.

OMG Missandei...that was brutal.  Die Cersei, Die.  Hopefully Jamie will do the honor.

He just has the ego of a guy who doesn't think science applies to him.

[watchTV]

12 hours ago, taurusrose said:

I'm curious. When was Sansa going to tell Jon about the additional men?  She didn't tell Jon anything that he didn't know, but instead of providing a solution, she made an obvious statement then sat there with a stupid, "deer in headlights" look on her face. She had every opportunity to step up and do the right thing.  But she didn't.  And there was no indication when she might decide to.  I WILL NEVER EVER FORGIVE SANSA FOR BOTB.  There are no amount of excuses that ever will make me like her after that.

Sansa didn't have to tell Jon anything after she specifically told him to wait until they could get more men. He wanted to go with what little they had. He decided that. Whether or not reinforcement came he was going. Why is his decision her fault? Jon puts himself into suicide missions. He stood there ready to be trampled by Bolton's cavalry then got trapped in a circle. He would've died if Knights of the Vale had not shown up. But yeah it's all Sansa's fault that this adult decided to put himself in that situation.

[VCRTracking]

[steelyis]

16 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

An absolute monarch is a tyrant whether they like it or not. You can be selfish and careless like Robert or you can be a saint, but either way, you're a tyrant. 

Yep.

At best, even a kind ruler would be a benevolent dictator.

16 hours ago, Constantinople said:

As the Warden of the North, the top general, he was too weak willed to tell Daenerys that the army needed more rest before marching on King's Landing. Loyal service means telling hard truths.

This reminds me of Ned's relationship with Robert. I don't think Ned was weak-willed when he obeyed Robert's terrible orders, I think Ned was honoring his oath to the king. Jon may be a Targaryen by blood but he will always be Ned Stark's son; and being Ned Stark's son will always be Jon's guiding light.

14 hours ago, JennyMominFL said:

Jon would be a terrible king

Hey now! In a perfect world Jon would be an excellent king!

10 hours ago, blackwing said:

Jon has always been a very weak man and he would make a terrible ruler.  Pretty much from the start of the series I have always thought that Jon was way overrated.

Jon isn't a weak man.

It takes strength to do the right thing when you know it might cost you everything. It takes strength to be merciful and to forgive even when you have every right to seek justice or revenge. It takes strength to stand up for people who, even on a good day, wouldn't care if you live or die.

Jon will never effectively rule The Seven Kingdoms, he just plain isn't equipped for the job.

But he is not a weak man.

[BadAssRobinArryn]

6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

So you're saying that if your neighbor said, "I don't care that the fire is taking over houses one by one on the block and my house is after yours. I don't have to do shit to help you with your house. I could get in my car and leave you to burn. But I won't...if you sign over your house to me. Make your choice" and so you signed over your house and she then took what was hers (your house etc.) you would see your neighbor as a savior and be grateful to her? As opposed to just grudgingly handing over the house she used the fire to make you sign over? Would you see your neighbor primarily as the person who helped you save your house or the person who used your burning house to extort your house out of you and also got you to keep their own house from being burned as well. (Also you're helping them move into a second house as well.) 

It wasn't really like this, though. This is what Jon told the Northerners. But Dany decided to help out quite a while before Jon bent the knee. It was only after she risked her life and suffered some loses as well, that Jon decided to bent the knee.

[LadyChaos]

41 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

It wasn't really like this, though. This is what Jon told the Northerners. But Dany decided to help out quite a while before Jon bent the knee. It was only after she risked her life and suffered some loses as well, that Jon decided to bent the knee.

Dany agreed to help the North, about 1 second before Jon bent the knee.  She literally said she would help the North, and he followed it by bending the knee.

Im my attempt to 'justify' (understand) why Jon would be such a shit dog owner as to leave Ghost without petting and talking to Ghost.......I think D&D were trying to symbolize Jon pulling away from his Stark heritage and trying to embrace his Targaeryen heritage. I also think he may feel he doesn't deserve the Stark emblem of a dire wolf, because he is a legitimate Targaeryen.  I think Jon was leaving Winterfell, thinking that he likely would never come back.  He thinks that he likely will either die in battle against Cersei, or marry Dany.  He was raised a Stark, but targs were known for their incest, and he clearly was still feeling pretty hot and heavy towards Dany. Or if Dany takes the throne, than maybe he would take Dragonstone for his own as the only other Targaeryen alive.  Either way, I think him discarding Ghost in such a way, is him feeling like he is casting off being a Stark.

Though we know in reality, the reason D&D did is the CGI budget was all on the dragons.....

Edited May 7, 2019 by LadyChaos

[Scaeva]

20 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I feel compelled to counter that this is some of the "stellar" writing of GRRM (made slightly less shitty by John Bradley).

In the thousands of pages penned by Martin he has definitely had some misfires, and the series got bogged down a bit in the middle with the plot advancing at a glacial pace. He's far from perfect.

He is however on the whole a much better writer than the people writing the television series. Nearly all the series' best moments were penned by Martin, and the worst by the showrunners.

A great example of the latter is Sansa's regressing to helpless victim with her marriage to a man a responsible for her brother's murder. If that were not bad enough, he also rapes and tortures her. That character regression was entirely the creation of the show's writers. In the books Ramsay weds a completely different character that did not make the TV series. 

That said...John Bradley reading the cave passage was hilarious. 😄

Edited May 7, 2019 by Scaeva

[Luckylyn]

My take on Jaime/Brienne’s love scene is that he was nervous.  It was established that Cersei has been the one woman he’s ever slept with.  Sex is not something Jaime ever does casually.  It means a lot to him.  He’s not going to be faithful to one woman his entire life and then move on to another lightly.   I think he was nervous to go there with Brienne because she is important to him.  They’ve been through so much and her friendship has been vital to his redemption.  He’s also aware that she’s been hurt by himself with his cruel words when they first were getting to know each other and by treatment of others.  If he didn’t love her, I don’t think Jaime would have pursued Brienne.  I think he was also a little afraid of rejection because Jaime doesn’t see himself as worthy of Brienne.  I don’t think he believes he deserves to be happy because he feels guilt for the horrible things he’s done.  He initially was trying to simply stay with Brienne at Winterfell and be happy, but he just couldn’t stay out of the conflict with Cersei.  I think he was trying to “White Fang” Brienne to protect her.  He’s pushing her away to try to prevent her from trying to fight at his side.  I don’t think he believes he will survive what happens next.

Why did he return to Cersei?  There are multiple possibilities. 

-He doesn’t think he deserves better

-He loves Cersei and thinks somehow he can save her

-He thinks Cersei is doomed and wants to die with her

-He thinks he has to atone for his sins by being the one to kill Cersei

-He wants to protect his child that Cersei is carrying

-He’s worried about what ruthless thing Cersei might do if she gets backed into a corner and believes he is the only who can get close enough to eliminate her.  

-He wants to give Cersei a compassionate death rather

I have no problem with Brienne crying.  There’s this idea that a woman has to be a certain way to be considered strong.  I don’t see any conflict between Brienne the warrior and Brienne having a vulnerable side. Tears during a moment of heartbreak does not weaken her in my eyes.  She’s human.  She’s tough, but there’s always been a sensitive side to her.  She’s had to be tough because of the ridicule she suffered.  That she can feel heartbreak and keep going is what makes her strong.   There’s no bravery if you never feel vulnerable ever.   Tears don’t automatically mean weakness to me.   I don’t think tears in a moment of distress should be demonized. 

Sam being afraid during the Long Night didn’t bother me. His lack of fighting skills leading others to be distracted protecting him to their detriment in battle is what annoyed me.  Feeling fear on the battlefield is a normal thing.  I think every single one of the people fighting were probably absolutely terrified to face the dead.  I don’t judge someone for a moment of panic because I don’t think they can help it.  I do judge someone who knows what skills they lack going into battle when they are aware they can contribute in other ways.  I feel if you know you aren’t a good fighter than you need to help by staying out of the way of those who do know how to fight so they aren’t distracted trying to protect you.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Luckylyn

[Scaeva]

20 hours ago, Advance35 said:

And this episode proved why the idea of them being married ISN'T a relief to Sansa.  Jon did not stand up for the North or it's soldiers in that war strategy meeting.  The Soldier's need rest and he didn't need to take Sansa's word for it.

Jon is just a "Yes Man" to Dany.  That's what he is as her lover and that's all he would be if they married.  He wouldn't stand up for the North in that war strategy meeting just because he's worried about her feelings.

The North and Sansa are on their own.  So Sansa is going to have to start "playing the game" that way.

Jon & Daenerys had it right in marching on King's Landing.

It is generally a truism in war that ceding initiative to your enemy results in defeat. While many of the army that fought the dead are wounded, winter has already arrived and delaying a march south could mean being snowed into Winterfell. Prior to the modern era (and Westeros is quasi-medieval) armies could not campaign in winter. It was too difficult to find food for the soldiers and fodder for horses and passes could get snowed in.

A delay also means that Cersei has more time to gather reinforcements, she maintains control of a capital that is not under siege which provides the appearance of her regime being the legitimate government of Westeros, and it communicates throughout the Seven Kingdoms and beyond that Daenerys/Jon's army is not strong enough to march on the capital.

That very likely means that fence sitting lords who will only throw in with the side that appears poised to win will choose Cersei, and entities like the Iron Bank are more likely to extend loans. Both would translate into more soldiers for Cersei come the campaign season, and rather than the final battle being fought at King's Landing, it's probably fought at Winterfell, with Cersei holding all the advantages minus dragons.

We aren't told exactly what percentage of Jon & Dany's forces have been rendered hors de combat, but since they were able to march south and besiege King's Landing there was apparently enough healthy soldiers remaining to get the job done. Realistically they should have picked up reinforcements on the way from fiefdoms the army passed through, as those lords would have to choose between declaring for Daenerys or risking their holds being torched, though the TV series' probably isn't going to go into that. In any case that they were able to place King's Landing under siege proves Sansa was not correct in her assessment.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Scaeva

[LadyPenelope]

20 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

I have no problem with Brienne crying.  There’s this idea that a woman has to be a certain way to be considered strong.  I don’t see any conflict between Brienne the warrior and Brienne having a vulnerable side. Tears during a moment of heartbreak does not weaken her in my eyes.  She’s human.  She’s tough, but there’s always been a sensitive side to her.  She’s had to be tough because of the ridicule she suffered.  That she can feel heartbreak and keep going is what makes her strong.   There’s no bravery if you never feel vulnerable ever.   Tears don’t automatically mean weakness to me.   I don’t think tears in a moment of distress should be demonized. 

Sam being afraid during the Long Night didn’t bother me. His lack of fighting skills leading others to be distracted protecting him to their detriment in battle is what annoyed me.  Feeling fear on the battlefield is a normal thing.  I think every single one of the people fighting were probably absolutely terrified to face the dead.  I don’t judge someone for a moment of panic because I don’t think they can help it.  I do judge someone who knows what skills they lack going into battle when they are aware they can contribute in other ways.  I feel if you know you aren’t a good fighter than you need to help by staying out of the way of those who do know how to fight so they aren’t distracted trying to protect you.

I completely agree with you on both points. Brienne is a romantic, she loved Renly and knew she would never be with him, and she has loved Jaime for years. Then, just when she had let herself be vulnerable and started to believe he loved her and had chosen her, he abandoned her and went off to die. Of course she was devastated - that’s just being human. Nobody criticises Dany for crying over Jorah. Showing emotion isn’t weakness. 

And I would have been fine with Sam’s fear if he had accepted that he wasn’t a soldier, and gone to the crypts. But he insisted on fighting, was offended at the thought that he not be on the front line, and then got people killed by falling apart. It also seemed out of character for a self-professed coward not to realise that he wouldn’t be of use.

[Lillith]

7 hours ago, chrisvee said:

They were together the entire time it took Dany and Co to sail to Dragonstone. Shouldn’t that have been about a week and a half?

Well the way they cut corners with time travel it could have been anything from 2 weeks to two days. But yes there were clearly "together" that entire time and Jamie seemed content to stay and leave Cersei to her own devices. 

[millennium]

I just read this thread title as "The Last of the Snarks."

[millennium]

4 hours ago, Andromeda said:

LOVE IT. I think this is amazing. I watched the Sarah Connor Chronicles (me and five other people)

Was it only five of us?  Good show.  I'll never forget that "When the Man Comes Around" scene.

[BooBear]

4 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

I think it had a lot more to do with her being the Queen and Jon's lady. Would have been pretty damn weird if they HAD hit on her, IMO.

For me what annoyed me... where were the women? Girls ?  Even when Cersie came out a young Sansa couldn't help but go see her in person. Yet here not one girl / woman comes up to say how blown away they were. Or even feel bad for her that she is sitting all alone. Yet in the same episode I am to believe that women are throwing themselves at the Hound? The HOUND?

Please! I keep hearing on so many behind the scenes that Dany sees here that no one in the north will ever give her any credit or like her- only Jon. First, that does not jive with how people really are and if there is one thing this show has always done it is shine a light on real people and second, if that was truly true, if I were Dany I would take my troops back to Essos and make Essos more powerful than the 7 kingdoms. The north can suffer under Cersie. 

But it is unbelievable to me that no one in the north would see value in Dany. That is a sexist plot necessary to turn Dany "mad" I resent it. 

[millennium]

7 hours ago, Andromeda said:

 I don't think it's a Starbucks cup. It came from craft services

I was watching Morning Joe this morning.  Most of the panelists rejected the idea this was a mistake.

The (apparently) free advertising for Starbucks has been estimated at a value of up to $1 million.

I know a lot of fans griped about the Ed Sheeran insertion.  Said it "jarred them out of the universe of the show."   To me this was worse.   It's a piece of modern-day trash sitting there.  It feels like whoring.

Edited May 7, 2019 by millennium

[paigow]

7 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

My son believes it means Jon will end up in the North. I’ll hope for that. 

Jon seems convinced this is a one-way ticket to KL. Ghost has a lot less / fewer of his 9 lives remaining....Jon wants him to live....

[Drogo]

2 hours ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

It wasn't really like this, though. This is what Jon told the Northerners. But Dany decided to help out quite a while before Jon bent the knee. It was only after she risked her life and suffered some loses as well, that Jon decided to bent the knee.

Thank you. That metaphor wasn't hitting. 

[Bryce Lynch]

24 minutes ago, BooBear said:

For me what annoyed me... where were the women? Girls ?  Even when Cersie came out a young Sansa couldn't help but go see her in person. Yet here not one girl / woman comes up to say how blown away they were. Or even feel bad for her that she is sitting all alone. Yet in the same episode I am to believe that women are throwing themselves at the Hound? The HOUND?

Please! I keep hearing on so many behind the scenes that Dany sees here that no one in the north will ever give her any credit or like her- only Jon. First, that does not jive with how people really are and if there is one thing this show has always done it is shine a light on real people and second, if that was truly true, if I were Dany I would take my troops back to Essos and make Essos more powerful than the 7 kingdoms. The north can suffer under Cersie. 

But it is unbelievable to me that no one in the north would see value in Dany. That is a sexist plot necessary to turn Dany "mad" I resent it. 

I was thinking the same thing.  These disloyal, backbiting, oath breaking Westerosis don't deserve Daenerys as their Queen.

She should pack up her remaining Unsullied, and Dothraki, and Drogon and head back to Meereen and let the ungrateful, cowardly shits like Varys, Tyrion and Sansa enjoy being under Cersei's thumb.  Cersei is the ruler they deserve. Cersei should get her spider, her little brother and her little dove back to have fun with.

It is really the type of oath breaking that led to the Red Wedding all over again, except this is much worse, as Robb broke his oath because he's fell in love, and he was still, really a boy.  Also, Walder Frey had done far less for him than Daenerys has done.

[Notwisconsin]

7 hours ago, KatWay said:

actually, Dany is Harry in that scenario, isn't she? but the point stands, Harry dropped to 5th in line instead of 2nd with every child of William's. The children of the heir have a stronger claim than his siblings, that's just how it works.

Then there's the saudi situation. worthy brother to worthy brother (there were lots of unworthy princes were passed over over the years) When they ran out of brothers, th king's favorite son became crown prince (after he arrested the previous two). BTW, Prior to the 19th century, women couldn't inherit the throne anywhere except for Britain and Spain.  In Russia, the three ladies who were Czars took over in coups.

[Sakura12]

55 minutes ago, millennium said:

Was it only five of us?  Good show.  I'll never forget that "When the Man Comes Around" scene.

I'm another one of the five. I loved the Sarah Connor Chronicles. It was better than the last couple of shitty movies they had. 

I know Dany's been told her whole life she belongs in Westeros. She didn't grow up there, her home is Essos. They don't have a Queen. She can be that Queen she was well on her way. Then she can make her own kingdom and castles the way she wants to make them. She should let them deal with Cersei since they don't want a foreign Queen. 

[millennium]

5 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I'm another one of the five. I loved the Sarah Connor Chronicles. It was better than the last couple of shitty movies they had. 

Not to mention they had Shirley Manson at the end, which in and of itself was kind of surreal.

Heck, that show even made Brian Austin Green seem worthwhile.

Edited May 7, 2019 by millennium

[Bryce Lynch]

7 hours ago, KatWay said:

actually, Dany is Harry in that scenario, isn't she? but the point stands, Harry dropped to 5th in line instead of 2nd with every child of William's. The children of the heir have a stronger claim than his siblings, that's just how it works.

I believe in Westeros, if Dany had been Rhaegar's daughter and Jon, the Mad King's youngest son, Jon would still be ahead of her.

Renly told Loras that he was 4th in line to the throne.  Presumably, this meant he was behind Joffrey, Tommen and Stannis, but ahead of Myrcella and Shireen because they were female.

So, in Jon and Dany's particular case, gender is irrelevant, because Jon is ahead of Dany due to his father being first born and would be the heir even if Dany were a man.

But, in a different situation, gender could matter.

[GodsBeloved]

11 hours ago, ticklemepink said:

Brienne and Jamie already had a deeply intimate and frankly beautiful scene two episodes ago that established their deep friendship and platonic love for each other. It just did not make sense to me that they needed to have sex. This show in its last season continues to rewrite female characters as stock stereotypes - now Brienne, a KNIGHT FOR GOD SAKE, is a mewling baby crying after the man who left her after deflowering her? 

God, end it already. 

[GodsBeloved]

10 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

No. Because if this were Dan Targaryen vs. Joanne Snow/Anne Targaryen... Joanne would STILL have the better claim, because she is the eldest surviving child of the Crown Prince.

Dany’s problem is she staked her claim on the moral legitimacy of being best claimant due to her Targaryen bloodline. Now that she CAN’T make that claim, she insists the rules be changed from the ones SHE set (i.e. legitimate heir to the previous Targ king) to let her still get what she wants.

Jon knelt under false pretenses. He’d been lied to about his identity all his life. Had he known, then by right of the same claims Dany was using to name herself Queen, SHE should have been the one bending the knee to the true heir to Iron Throne when he asked her to bring her forces North for the good of the Realm.

She’s as power hungry... and as illegitimate... as Cersei, Joffrey and Renly (all of whom had no legitimate claim at all or were trying to jump the line). By demanding Jon deny his true identity, she’s making herself just as much a usurper to the true king as Robert was.

[UNOSEZ]

Tho some of his plans didn't work... I can't say I found fault with any of tyrion's plans... Skipping over the TV show reasons you don't let Dany take her dragons to KL immediately...if she did that with her wild dothraki and creepy unsullied... It would've seemed a foreign occupation and she just went thru that in mereen.. And if she rained down fire then shes the mad queen and cue the resistance... And based on what we know of Dany do any of us who admire her really want to watch her fight against non slave holders and ppl we may have liked or at least not hated.. The way she just obliterated her enemies in the east... I don't... The plan to make cersei stop her war efforts again.. What was the other option for Dany/Jon et al?  If they never showed her the dead man... Ok then she's definitely not sending men and she may continue to march her ppl closer to the north.. Or some other evil machination... That means you have to at least guard against her threat which means you aren't at full strength  to fight the NK.. And that would spell disaster... EveryThing Tyrion has tried to do is to make her eventual transition as smooth as possible..  To hurt the least amount of innocent civilians and to hopefully garner her support for her rule.. Hell even military wunderkind Robbed Stark thought taking Casterly Rock would be a blow to the Lannisters and send a message to the other lords... 

7 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

That weebay gif may be the greatest gif of all time for me... 

[GodsBeloved]

9 hours ago, taurusrose said:

Tormund has two hands.  Just saying.  

Yes!! Team Two Handed Tormund all day, every day!!! 🤣

[Sakura12]

Dany's claim is not illegitimate, as far as she knew she was the last remaining Targaryen. Her father was dead, her brothers were dead and she thought all her brothers children were dead. That made her claim legitimate. Jon being a Targ doesn't delegitimize her claim it just puts her second in line. Jon when he found told her he doesn't want the thrown. So he can abdicate the crown, once again making her the heir. 

Dany just knows from the way the North treats her that if they found out about Jon they would want him because he's a northerner. So if he truly doesn't want to be King the best way for that to happen is to not tell anyone. Dany should not even have to tell him, he should've known what would happen. But he's Jon Snow and he knows nothing. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Sakura12

[Friendly kitty]

Finally, I write a review about the episode, short, in a few sentences.
1. Happy for Jaime and Brienne! What I was waiting for after reading the book happened. Very touching they have sex turned out. And Tyrion is still a prankster - he demanded to tell you what was there and how.
2. Dog and Arya are real comrades. Everything returns to normal. Good luck in battle!
3. Deaneris goes crazy. Very crazy. Still, blood is not water. If there were crazy people in the family, then it will be the same with her. But sad, yes.
4. Understand why quickly ended up with the dead. We want to show that the living are worse than the dead, and Deineris and Cersei are worse than КN.
5. Dragon pity. Still, you can not walk around the enemy's house without any preparation.
6. And the Ghost is also a pity. Oh, well, how could John not even say goodbye to his wolf ??? It's his friend and comrade! Bad John!
7. When Varis and Tirion discussed the royal affairs, the spirit of the former Games of Thrones arose. Nostalgia...
8. And Jaime is a bad guy. Made a deal and rode away. But I am sure that he deliberately said bad Brienne so that she would not grieve too much when he died. And he feels that he will die ... But before that he must kill Cersei.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Friendly kitty

[tv-talk]

15 hours ago, Drogo said:

The King in the North bent the knee to her.  Following the bent knee, negotiations for the North are over. 

You can always unbend the knee, especially when it turns out you're King of the World.

Edited May 7, 2019 by tv-talk

[ElectricBoogaloo]

14 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Its not fair to the character.. But my blood boiled every time that shot happened... Every Mhysa uttered was like nails on a board for me.. And then they filtered in more euro looking former slaves and I was mad about that... So maybe I just wasn't going to be happy with any of that... Tho nothing has given me more grief than the fact that the only black guy of note barely speaks and is a castrated walking weapon with no discernable personality until maybe this season... But as many of my kinfolk have done.. I press on cuz a  good TV show can almost make you forget about horrible representation.. So while I sympathize as best I can with the ladies who are unhappy that Sansa and Dany are sniping at each other or that Jon may " swoop in and take Dany's throne" which are legitimate gripes... You have Arya Sansa Brienne Tara.. Hell even cersei.. You had Cat and Lady Olenna and Margery... I've had nameless castrated child killers... A former slave boy who got beheaded for killing someobe before a trial ( cuz thats how its supposed to go)  A pirate and a shady merchant who got locked in his empty vault.. 

I'm there with you. Apparently Westeros doesn't have any Latinx or Asian people so every once in a while I think about whether it's better to have no representation at all or shitty situations where there's like one character who is a stereotype/gets shat on constantly/has no personality beyond being non-white.

10 hours ago, taurusrose said:

I just finished watching the extras for this episode on HBO.  I really can't stand D&D.  Why is it they can't pronounce Missandei or Cersei?  And all the Sansa is LF Jr. nonsense they like to spew bugs the crap out of me.  Sansa is not the sharpest knife in the drawer so stop telling me she is. 

That drives me crazy. Every season, they do post show interviews where they mispronounce the names of MAIN CHARACTERS. I would understand it more if they were talking about some random person who was only in one episode but they have consistently pronounced Cersei, Sansa, and Missandei differently than everyone on the show. And it's not like they can't just, I don't know, ask GRRM. But for some reason, they have managed to go almost a decade doing this.

6 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Really the only GoT spin-off worth watching (courtesy of Salma Mattar @IAmTheRainXoxo on Twitter). 

I would watch this every week, even if it was just 30 minutes of webcam footage of the two of them chasing each other in the snow.

55 minutes ago, millennium said:

Not to mention they had Shirley Manson at the end, which in and of itself was kind of surreal.

Heck, that show even made Brian Austin Green seem worthwhile.

This guy? No way!

[Drogo]

3 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

You can always unbend the knee, especially when it turns out you're King of the World.

Beware of icebergs, Aegon!

[GodsBeloved]

6 hours ago, Andromeda said:

LOVE IT. I think this is amazing. I watched the Sarah Connor Chronicles (me and five other people) and saw the Terminator: Genysis in the theaters. What a funny thing for them to have in common.

Make that six people LOL

I also saw Terminator: Genysis but not in the theaters and it didn't dawn on me until now that Sarah Connor #3 and Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, First of Her Name, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regent of the Seven Kingdoms, Queen of Meereen, the Unburnt, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons Dragon were the same person LOL

[Drogo]

21 minutes ago, Friendly kitty said:

And the Ghost is also a pity. Oh, well, how could John not even say goodbye to his wolf ??? It's his friend and comrade! Bad John!

Ghost got ghosted. 

[Bryce Lynch]

11 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

When Sansa asked about her intentions toward the North Dany didn't seem very open to making them too independent. She doesn't seem to want to give them up.

Sansa didn't ask nicely. She really wasn't "asking" "What about the North", she was telling Daenerys she would never bow to her, after Jon already had bent the knee and submitted the North to her.

I am pretty sure, Dany had no intention of ruling the North with an iron fist or micromanaging it.  But having the North officially be one of her Seven Kingdoms was important to her credibility as Queen.  The Northerners would have been subjects in name, but more like allies in a practical sense.

When Sansa says, "What about the North?"  She really means, "What about the Lady of Winterfell?"    "I won the Battle of the Bastards, you know.  You should be on your knees thanking me!"   

Sansa deserves to be ruled by Cersei.  

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

I was watching Morning Joe this morning.  Most of the panelists rejected the idea this was a mistake.

The (apparently) free advertising for Starbucks has been estimated at a value of up to $1 million.

I know a lot of fans griped about the Ed Sheeran insertion.  Said it "jarred them out of the universe of the show."   To me this was worse.   It's a piece of modern-day trash sitting there.  It feels like whoring.

If it was it would be fairly standard practice. I don’t see the logo, though? It may well be a generic food service cup.

Mistakes like this are not uncommon. Wristwatches, waterbottles. 

[WatchrTina]

10 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I mean if Tormund can get laid it's not unbelievable that Jaime found himself in the sack as well after that huge "we're alive" keg party.

Shallow observation of the morning -- I'm pretty sure Tormund can get laid anywhere, anytime.  That guy is hot (sloppy ale-drinking habits notwithstanding).

[Drogo]

I just came across this and was reminded that Grey Worm is going to fuck. shit. up.

Old boy will probably hightail it to Old Valyria looking for a cache of dragon eggs.