S06.E20: Triple Dip and an Overhand Grip

[paulvdb]

Quote

Bonnie and Tammy revisit childhood memories on a trip to their old foster home. Also, Christy and Jill regret accepting a date with two guys from their AA meeting.

Airdate: April 25, 2019

[VanillaBeanne]

I really enjoyed this episode. Loved Jill and Christy hanging out, and the return of Andy!!!

The Tammy storyline made me cry.  Very dark for a comedy but the show handled it well.  

[sugarbaker design]

Excellent episode highlighting the actor's strengths, moving forward the plot and illuminating the characters' lives...and Andy too!  Funny one scene, heartbreaking the next, good job writers!

One nitpick:  I've been sober 25 years and I've always been disappointed in the way the media portrays the program, not the way the media portrays AA but the way it portrays the steps.  Bonnie's amends were bullshit.  My sponsor's instructions for making amends were:

1.  State I'm in AA/spiritual fellowship that encourages me to make amends.

2.  This is what I did.

3.  I apologize.

4.  Is there anything I can do to make it better?

5.  Is there anything I left out?

I want to see that played out on Mom!

[ShortyMac]

2 minutes ago, VanillaBeanne said:

I really enjoyed this episode. Loved Jill and Christy hanging out, and the return of Andy!!!

The Tammy storyline made me cry.  Very dark for a comedy but the show handled it well.  

Same.

So, Tammy's dad killed her mom. "My mom was so pretty." Heartbreaking.

[Snow Apple]

Young Bonnie pushing the foster parents away and when they backed off to give her space, she assume they don't like her. That's such a teenage way of thinking. We've all been there to some degree.

Tammy is such a goofy characters that when it got serious, it sure packed a wallop.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Snow Apple

[EtheltoTillie]

This may be the best episode of Mom ever. Wow. 

24 minutes ago, VanillaBeanne said:

I really enjoyed this episode. Loved Jill and Christy hanging out, and the return of Andy!!!

The Tammy storyline made me cry.  Very dark for a comedy but the show handled it well.  

Yes all of this. 

[SmithW6079]

Bonnie annoyed me for much of the episode, but the ending with the foster mother and then in the car with Tammy was fantastic. 

I didn't care for the way Jill and Christy were mocking the two men who came up to them after the meeting. Those guys took a chance and didn't deserve their scorn. (I did like the head nods Bonnie and the one-night-stand exchanged the next morning).

Andy had nothing to apologize for. He didn't withdraw because he was afraid of being hurt by Jill; he was hurt by Jill. She was a snob who was ashamed that one of her snob friends saw her with a fat guy who was a cop and not of their social class. 

[AnimeMania]

I was waiting for the confrontation from Chrissy causing Tammy to lose her boyfriend, but all we got was Tammy sticking her finger in Chrissy's ice cream.

[Bastet]

I generally only watch this in syndication, but I happened to catch the final ten minutes or so of this in first run, and loved it.  Bonnie's conversation with the wonderful Lois Smith as the former foster mom was terrific, and when Bonnie and Tammy were in the car and Tammy realized Bonnie now knew about her parents, I knew she was going to deliver a seemingly simple but powerful one-line response, and it didn't disappoint.  What a great moment.

[LucyEth]

Best episode of this show ever!!!  I really can't add anything to what everyone else has said, only that for me any episode void of Adam is a good one, just cannot take to him.  Again, the addition of the Tammy character was gold IMO!

[qtpye]

14 hours ago, ShortyMac said:

Same.

So, Tammy's dad killed her mom. "My mom was so pretty." Heartbreaking.

14 hours ago, VanillaBeanne said:

I really enjoyed this episode. Loved Jill and Christy hanging out, and the return of Andy!!!

The Tammy storyline made me cry.  Very dark for a comedy but the show handled it well.  

14 hours ago, GussieK said:

This may be the best episode of Mom ever. Wow. 

Yes all of this. 

11 hours ago, Bastet said:

I generally only watch this in syndication, but I happened to catch the final ten minutes or so of this in first run, and loved it.  Bonnie's conversation with the wonderful Lois Smith as the former foster mom was terrific, and when Bonnie and Tammy were in the car and Tammy realized Bonnie now knew about her parents, I knew she was going to deliver a seemingly simple but powerful one-line response, and it didn't disappoint.  What a great moment.

Oh, gosh this show can be so pleasant and funny that I am really impressed with how well they can shine a light on how tragic some of these people lives have truly been. It was like when Bonnie found out her mother abandoned her for a man. The “my mom was so pretty” comment was so quiet and heartbreaking.

[iMonrey]

At first I thought the show was getting spread too thin when they added Tammy as a regular cast member. But she has really turned out to be a great addition to this show. Her goofiness just blends right into the group and she never crosses that line of being too over the top (although she edges right up to it!). 

Seeing Christy and Jill eating onions rings at the greasy spoon diner reminded me that Jill only recently got over a serious weight problem. I'm surprised there was no mention of that.

[bichonblitz]

13 hours ago, Bastet said:

Bonnie's conversation with the wonderful Lois Smith as the former foster mom was terrific, and when Bonnie and Tammy were in the car and Tammy realized Bonnie now knew about her parents, I knew she was going to deliver a seemingly simple but powerful one-line response, and it didn't disappoint.  What a great moment.

Fantastic! Great job Allison Janney and Kristin Johnson!

[SmithW6079]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Seeing Christy and Jill eating onions rings at the greasy spoon diner reminded me that Jill only recently got over a serious weight problem. I'm surprised there was no mention of that.

Jill had a weight problem only because of the actress's real-life pregnancy, so no need to ever refer again to the excess weight, the binging/compulsive overeating, or having to be mindful of her eating habits.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Jill had a weight problem only because of the actress's real-life pregnancy, so no need to ever refer again to the excess weight, the binging/compulsive overeating, or having to be mindful of her eating habits.

I realize it was written into the show because of Jaime Pressly's pregnancy, but it was a pretty major story arc for her. Weight issues don't just disappear once you lose weight. Ask Oprah. I think it's notable to see her sitting there scarfing down junk food like that. Are they going to pretend that never happened? What next, they pretend she was never an drug addict either? That's kind of what the show is about after all.

[ams1001]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

At first I thought the show was getting spread too thin when they added Tammy as a regular cast member. But she has really turned out to be a great addition to this show. Her goofiness just blends right into the group and she never crosses that line of being too over the top (although she edges right up to it!). 

I thought she was a little over the top in her first few episodes (and was glad when I thought she'd only be around for a few), but since she's become a regular the character seems to have settled down a bit and I like her a lot better. And that one little line about her mom just gave the whole character a bit more depth.

[eel21788]

21 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Excellent episode highlighting the actor's strengths, moving forward the plot and illuminating the characters' lives...and Andy too!  Funny one scene, heartbreaking the next, good job writers!

One nitpick:  I've been sober 25 years and I've always been disappointed in the way the media portrays the program, not the way the media portrays AA but the way it portrays the steps.  Bonnie's amends were bullshit.  My sponsor's instructions for making amends were:

1.  State I'm in AA/spiritual fellowship that encourages me to make amends.

2.  This is what I did.

3.  I apologize.

4.  Is there anything I can do to make it better?

5.  Is there anything I left out?

I want to see that played out on Mom!

At least she didn't try the ADD defense this time.

[60sgirl]

   Very emotional episode, tears welled up in my eyes during the scene with Bonnie and her foster mother and the exchange with Bonnie and Tammy on their way home in the car.  On the lighter side, Christy playing with the controls in the police car made me laugh. 

[sleepysuzy]

Bonnie's amends making reminded me of Christy's attempt with her daughter earlier this season. The difference is that Bonnie got the result she wanted once she pushed her foster mom, but it came with the price of learning Tammy's tragic secret. Bonnie and Christy both approach amends making from a self-serving perspective. They want forgiven and accepted, and making amends is just a means to an end. I think the writers are doing a good job of showing parallels between their characters. They both focused on trying to get the other person to see how much better they are now, listing their accomplishments as if they cancel out past bad behavior. 

[nodorothyparker]

This was a pretty terrific episode, and nice to see the venerable Lois Smith in this.  After what felt like sometimes going too big with her in her initial outings, the show has really figured out the right amount of Tammy/Kristen Johnston.  She's still a big personality but she has a real earnestness about her and now this gutwrenching backstory that was played just pitch perfect with its level of restraint.  It felt very in character for Bonnie to be ratcheting up the (foster) sibling rivalry because of what seemed to be the obvious favoritism by their former foster mother because as usual it was all about the validation she wanted even though we had already heard the story of what a bad seed she was in that house in Tammy's introduction in the prison episode last season.  At least she finally got it in the end that no, hers and Tammy's bad situations were not identical and it was unrealistic to expect them to be treated identically.

It was also nice to see Andy again, although he would have been within his rights to stay gone after Jill reverted to her old snobbishness to try to impress someone she was supposedly done with anyway.  But he seems to truly appreciate her enough to give her another shot and if she's committed to trying to do better, then good for them.  

Christy again playing the overgrown adolescent is starting to feel played out.

[MaryMitch]

This episode was amazing!  I can't add anything else, except I cried several times and I'm crying reading these comments.

[Gothish520]

Yeah this one is a keeper, I will be watching it again. Great episode. 

22 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I was waiting for the confrontation from Chrissy causing Tammy to lose her boyfriend, but all we got was Tammy sticking her finger in Chrissy's ice cream.

I was expecting that too, guess Tammy has forgiven her?

On 4/25/2019 at 10:52 PM, SmithW6079 said:

I didn't care for the way Jill and Christy were mocking the two men who came up to them after the meeting. Those guys took a chance and didn't deserve their scorn. (I did like the head nods Bonnie and the one-night-stand exchanged the next morning).

I kind of agree, but then again, they've heard their shares in group and maybe things the guys said made them think that they may not be good romantic prospects - though Christy seemed to get past that, at least for one night, lol.

[Blakeston]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - this show's darkest moments are almost always its very best moments. I really can't think of any other show that's so goofy most of the time, but switches on a dime to extreme tragedy. And even when it's dealing with extreme tragedy, it's still enjoyable to watch!

One thing felt like it was missing, though - shouldn't Lois Smith's character have given a rather profuse apology of her own, for kicking Tammy out of the house over something she didn't even do? It really should have occurred to her at the time that someone else could have planted something in Tammy's stuff, considering that Tammy was always so well-behaved.

And frankly, Tammy was passive-aggressive about the whole thing. She could have just offered amends for destroying the rose bushes, and left it at that. Mentioning that her life was basically ruined as a result of being thrown out seemed like a knife in the back, especially with Tammy knowing that Bonnie was going to admit to framing her.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Blakeston

[theatremouse]

On 4/25/2019 at 6:52 PM, sugarbaker design said:

Bonnie's amends were bullshit.

I think Bonnie's amends were supposed to be bullshit. She had no intention of making amends to those foster parents until it came up that Tammy was going to. She basically tagged along. She was never going there sincerely. I think it would've made less sense if Bonnie actually did it "right". The point of Bonnie's being involved was so that she wouldn't be sincere about it and would end up confronting the woman and the woman would slip about Tammy's history. So her reluctant-yet-also-fomo presence was both in-character and necessary for the plot.

[bichonblitz]

14 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Christy again playing the overgrown adolescent is starting to feel played out.

They are really overdoing it this season with the super messy ponytail,  constant hoodies and old clothes. She's in law school, and 42 yrs. old, yet they make her look like a freshman in community college. 

[wendyg]

I assume her money is going to tuition and textbooks and between law school and her job she doesn't have time to go shopping. Which in her case I imagine means scouring the thrift stores. I don't have a problem with it.

[Snow Apple]

2 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

They are really overdoing it this season with the super messy ponytail,  constant hoodies and old clothes. She's in law school, and 42 yrs. old, yet they make her look like a freshman in community college. 

I also have a youthful appearance even in middle age and dress like Christy most of the time. However, I dress appropriately when I have to.

I hope we see Christy dress and act seriously when they show her in law school and her internship. Law is one of those occupation where you need to demand respect, especially when you're starting out. Christy won't be able to get by on cuteness.

[MissLucas]

I feel conflicted about this episode. I still think the stunt Bonnie pulled on Tammy was one of the shittiest things she's done in her life (that we know of). I tried to forget about it since I do actually enjoy Tammy a lot (on a side-note I think Tammy is this show's Tormund - which means Adam is Brienne). Bringing it all back and adding Tammy's tragic backstory makes the whole thing even worse.

It goes without saying that the acting was superb and I loved that they cut away from the scene after Tammy had started to talk about her mother.

But I'm really happy Andy is back, yay!

Edited April 27, 2019 by MissLucas

[bichonblitz]

3 hours ago, wendyg said:

I assume her money is going to tuition and textbooks and between law school and her job she doesn't have time to go shopping. Which in her case I imagine means scouring the thrift stores. I don't have a problem with it.

She has been in school forever and had money problems throughout the series. In past season's I don't think she has ever looked this unkempt. She used to wear her hair down once in a while, wore nice sweaters and even an occasional dress. Now she looks like she doesn't even bother to wash her hair. Looking youthful and looking like a slob are two very different things. Bonnie doesn't look like that and she's just as broke as Christy. 

[Blakeston]

It's not just the way she dresses - in the past few episodes, she's been acting like a toddler.

And they've played up Bonnie acting motherly toward her (in the way that a young mother would take care of a small child, not the way that a fifty-something would take care of her adult daughter.)

[GGFan]

I know this has been mentioned in other posts but why are the writers going back and forth about the existence of Violet and Roscoe? Violet was shown this season but this week when Bonnie was in the kitchen and telling her foster mom what a great family she has there was zero mention of them. It is very annoying. I understand they wanted to switch the focus of the show from the family to friends but how can you just ignore the history of the show, especially with it being in syndication. 

[theatremouse]

I don't think not mentioning them is equivalent to denying their existence? She was trying to impress the foster mom, so she led with "daughter in law school" and then mentioned Adam and his wheelchair basically going for "see I can't be that horrible". The FM didn't really seem to give a shit, so mentioning grandaughter with a podcast or teenage grandson wouldn't really add to the discussion.

[juliet73]

13 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

They are really overdoing it this season with the super messy ponytail,  constant hoodies and old clothes. She's in law school, and 42 yrs. old, yet they make her look like a freshman in community college. 

And she always looks like she just rolled out of bed.

The Tammy/Bonnie plotline was one of the best this show has done. I didn't care for Tammy in the beginning because she was so loud and over the top obnoxious. Now that her character has been toned down (a lot), I think she is a good addition to the cast. 

[possibilities]

3 hours ago, theatremouse said:

and then mentioned Adam and his wheelchair basically going for "see I can't be that horrible"

...of course, her mentioning the chair to get points is a sign of horribleness. But Bonnie is not meant to come across as a saint, so I didn't think it was an out-of-character thing for her to say, as insulting as it was.

I think Christy is a bit depressed this season. She's been cycling through everything from gambling to cigarettes in order to manage her stress, and she's also kind of letting down her defenses a little more now that Bonnie is offering her a little nurturing. I don't have trouble with her clothing, but she does look like she's not washing her hair or even combing it half the time, and it is a definite change in her presentation.

I would like to see her have a breakthrough of some kind, because she's been doing better and better in her life in general, but seems to be more and more stressed out and unhappy despite that.

I agree with everyone about how great the episode was.

RE the onion rings-- they left most of them on the table when they left. They probably each ate 2 rings.

Edited April 28, 2019 by possibilities

[amaranta]

"My Mom was so pretty."

That took my breath away, and then tears.  Great job, show.  And Kristen too.

16 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I loved that they cut away from the scene after Tammy had started to talk about her mother.

I don't think that was the start of a talk or Tammy getting into what happened.  I think she said that, and that's all she said.  Nothing more.  That's the way it went in my head, at least.

Best episode this season and one of the best in the whole run.

[DXD526]

Quote

RE the onion rings-- they left most of them on the table when they left. They probably each ate 2 rings.

That drove me nuts! That plate was almost full when they got up to leave. And they were talking about getting popcorn; I thought, take those onion rings with you and keep doing terrible things to them at the movies! 

Good episode, though, despite the unfortunate food neglect. 

[ctlady]

Aside from the very end - so much UGH with this episode.

On 4/25/2019 at 10:52 PM, SmithW6079 said:

I didn't care for the way Jill and Christy were mocking the two men who came up to them after the meeting. Those guys took a chance and didn't deserve their scorn

Absolutely agree here.  I especially loathed that comment Jill made to Christy before those guys came over to them about how everyone knows they're the 'cool ones'.  A little old for mean girls mentality, there.

On 4/26/2019 at 5:30 PM, iMonrey said:

Jill had a weight problem only because of the actress's real-life pregnancy, so no need to ever refer again to the excess weight, the binging/compulsive overeating, or having to be mindful of her eating habits.

The character 'Jill's' weight problem was a result of her eating her emotions away due to Emily being taken away from her.  It just happened to be convenient to be able to write in the weight problem as a way to cover the actress 'Jaime's' pregnancy.

And I do feel that it should not be forgotten.  There's no shame in what she did - no different from Christy and her gambling.  Jill ate herself into obesity, went to a clinic and came back thinner, but that doesn't mean another setback in her life won't trigger it again.

On 4/26/2019 at 11:31 PM, Gothish520 said:

I kind of agree, but then again, they've heard their shares in group and maybe things the guys said made them think that they may not be good romantic prospects

I understand this, but they just wanted to go out for coffee - not shopping for engagement rings.

On 4/26/2019 at 5:30 PM, iMonrey said:

I think it's notable to see her sitting there scarfing down junk food like that.

Well, I wouldn't call nibbling on 2 onion rings then leaving practically a full plate without asking for a doggie bag (what a waste of food) 'scarfing'

On 4/27/2019 at 11:23 AM, bichonblitz said:

They are really overdoing it this season with the super messy ponytail,  constant hoodies and old clothes. She's in law school, and 42 yrs. old, yet they make her look like a freshman in community college. 

To quote Miss. Jane Bennett - "Yes......1,000 times, yes!"

Loved seeing Andy again, but did not appreciate that the writers had to mock his size by having him struggle getting into the car.  And, yes, I know the seat was pulled way up to accomodate Christy's leg length, but it was more than just that he struggled with.  Must be the same writers who feel the need to write in lines for the other ladies to mock Wendy week after week.  Seriously, that opening scene made me fume.  I just wish Wendy would say, "Later, you mean bitches.  I'm going to find another meeting to attend with people who don't have to belittle my every quirk".  I know they eye roll at Jill's rude sarcasm over the years and Bonnie and Marjorie have had their share of differences, but their constant mocking of Wendy (and her lack of storylines - even newcomer Tammy gets her own plot) really grates me

[SmithW6079]

My point about Jill's compulsive overeating and the fact that it'll never be mentioned again is that I'm sure the writers don't consider compulsive overeating or binge eating disorder to be "real" addictions. After all, the one group it's still OK to mock is fat people -- look at how Andy's appearance this episode was played for laughs with the car, and Will Sasso isn't a huge, "sloppy" fat guy.

Edited April 28, 2019 by SmithW6079

[Sarah 103]

On 4/27/2019 at 11:23 AM, bichonblitz said:

They are really overdoing it this season with the super messy ponytail,  constant hoodies and old clothes. She's in law school, and 42 yrs. old, yet they make her look like a freshman in community college. 

I think it's because Christy doesn't have much money. If it's still in good condition and fits, she's going to wear it. 

18 hours ago, GGFan said:

I know this has been mentioned in other posts but why are the writers going back and forth about the existence of Violet and Roscoe? Violet was shown this season but this week when Bonnie was in the kitchen and telling her foster mom what a great family she has there was zero mention of them. It is very annoying. I understand they wanted to switch the focus of the show from the family to friends but how can you just ignore the history of the show, especially with it being in syndication. 

The writers pretty much wrapped up Violet's story. She has a job and she can afford a pretty nice apartment. She also has a popular podcast. She also made it clear she wants nothing to do with Christy and her mother seems to respect that wish/desire, so until there's some kind of emotional breakthrough, the Violet storyline is pretty much done for.

Roscoe should be mentioned every now and then. In theory, even though he lives with his father and stepfather, Christy should still be part of his life. Even if the actor is no longer available, mention that Christy has go to something for him (a sporting event, a school event, take him out for dinner or ice-cream) to demonstrate that he is still part of her life. 

[eel21788]

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

RE the onion rings-- they left most of them on the table when they left. They probably each ate 2 rings.

I thought they were already on their second serving.

[eel21788]

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

I think it's because Christy doesn't have much money. If it's still in good condition and fits, she's going to wear it. 

I'm smaller than Christy and most of my wardrobe comes from things people give me because they don't fit anymore. Even though I can afford it, I rarely buy myself clothes.

[Chaos Theory]

If anyone is expecting Wendy to get any respect you better just stop watching the show.   It is a running gag that no one cares about Wendy’s shares and for the record I find it one of the more humorous gags of the show.  If anything I would love to see an episode focusing on what actually goes on in Wendy’s life while everyone else is ignoring her and have it be first level interesting.

Jill’s weight was written mainly to accommodate the actresses real life pregnancy so I doubt it will be mentioned again.  

I really liked the Tammy/Bonnie plot.  Bonnie remembers her childhood and history in general acertain way and it is interesting that her memory of it is often not perfect accurate.  Like with aunt Jeanie the way Bonnie remembered their history wasn’t completely accurate the way she remembered her foster mother and the way she treated Tammy and her wasn’t accurate either.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I watch this show without missing an episode and I can't remember Bonnie and Tammy's connection.  Is Tammy really supposed to be in her 50's as well?  How far apart is the age gap between them that they would have had the same foster parents at the same time? 

I want a scene with Kristin Johnson and French Stewart. Why they have held back, I have no idea. 

[Bort]

2 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

I watch this show without missing an episode and I can't remember Bonnie and Tammy's connection.  Is Tammy really supposed to be in her 50's as well?

Kristen Johnston is 52 so yeah. I think Bonnie is supposed to be a few years older than Tammy.

[theatremouse]

16 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

Is Tammy really supposed to be in her 50's as well?  How far apart is the age gap between them that they would have had the same foster parents at the same time? 

They were presented as pretty close in age. I think Tammy was 14-15 and Bonnie was 15-16? But they could've been 17 years apart and still had the same foster parents at the same time. The whole "Bonnie frames Tammy for stealing" thing wouldn't have made sense if the age gap were that large, but if we're talking about age gaps there could've been a newborn and someone about to age out in the same house. In some states you might only be certified for certain ages (it doesn't work that way everywhere), or you might have a preference and only agree to take certain age groups, in which case the kids would by the parents' own choosing be similar ages. But Tammy and Bonnie's relative ages aren't really relevant to their being in the same foster home at the same time, in terms of the plot presented on this show.

[IDreamofJoaquin]

I work with foster kids so I get how the process works.  I just thought Tammy seemed a lot younger than Bonnie and I could not remember how they met, outside of Bonnie seeing her again when she went to volunteer at the prison and wanted to help her out.  I think the ages are relevant if they were at the same home at the same time. 

[kwnyc]

Quote

They want forgiven and accepted, and making amends is just a means to an end. I think the writers are doing a good job of showing parallels between their characters. They both focused on trying to get the other person to see how much better they are now, listing their accomplishments as if they cancel out past bad behavior. 

This is such an insightful observation...yes, both mother and daughter do that. Christi wears her need to be loved on her sleeve, and Bonnie's a bit more hidden and manipulative about it. 

As for Christy looking so run down, I can say that I have adult friends who have gone to/are in law school (and even work other jobs), and they get VERY dissheveled...to the point where, yeah, throwing on something that's relatively clean and finger-combing the hair become the limit of dressing/grooming.

So this season is Christy's third year, right? Or is she in an extended program? And after that, she'll have to prep for the bar. I expect we'll be seeing hollow-eyed, exhausted Christy for awhile longer.

[Mr Ricky Brown]

Had 2