S05.E10: Enemy in the Family

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jazz and Jeanette travel to New York for a follow up appointment with Dr. Ting.  Ahmir has a harsh reaction to the details of Jazz's bottom surgeon.  Jazz confronts Ahmir's transphobic mother, who in turn claims that Ahmir is hiding something. 

What is Ahmir hiding?  How much does he learn about Jazz's surgery? Is Ahmir incompetent at google so it didn't occur to him until now what is done in "bottom surgery"?  Will Jeanette join the conversation with Ahmir's mother?  Will the show find a way to make this interesting?  Has PPAL forgotten how to write in forms other than questions? 

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

What is Ahmir hiding?  How much does he learn about Jazz's surgery? Is Ahmir incompetent at google so it didn't occur to him until now what is done in "bottom surgery"?  Will Jeanette join the conversation with Ahmir's mother?  Will the show find a way to make this interesting?  Has PPAL forgotten how to write in forms other than questions? 

Sadly, at this point in the show, I'm not sure any of us even care anymore. Which is a shame. The only overarching take-aways I have now from this show are:

1. Trans kids are the same as other kids when it comes to needing rules, consequences and punishments.

2. Molly coddling trans teens doesn't help them at all.

3. Jazz has ceased to be an asset to the trans community and should stop this show. It's just showing how unlikable she is, which has nothing to do with her story and everything to do with her growing up in an overly permissive environment.

Edited March 4, 2019 by gingerella

[parrotfeathers]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

Sadly, at this point in the show, I'm not sure any of us even care anymore.

I've never been able to get invested in the show.  I see the ads for it.  I wondered today why Jazz hasn't mentioned getting her nose fixed.  I guess one part at a time is all they can handle.

[Concerned]

Odd that the front door of their house opens outward. I’ve only seen front door open inward. It’s like the transom is backwards.

[Emmeline]

She is meeting with JuJu Chang and she doesn’t want to wear a bra.  I read that Jazz had something to go with a bra line.  You would think she would want to wear one.

[CPA1967]

Jazz needs to learn to act like a girl. If she wants to be a girl, she needs to act like one. Put a damn bra on. She is so immature. Her mom does not do her any favors. 

[PupCal]

On 3/3/2019 at 8:35 PM, parrotfeathers said:

I've never been able to get invested in the show.  I see the ads for it.  I wondered today why Jazz hasn't mentioned getting her nose fixed.  I guess one part at a time is all they can handle.

Or y'know maybe she doesn't want to get her nose "fixed".

[Joan of Argh]

Omg Jazz spinning around making what she thinks are sexy, fun faces for the photo shoot. 😲

Those pics will need someone with a shitload of photoshop talent.

That family has some crazy severe facial features, between Jazz's nose and the cyclops eyeballs of the grandmother and mother... Yikes!

[Mollysmom]

1 minute ago, Joan of Argh said:

Omg Jazz spinning around making what she thinks are sexy, fun faces for the photo shoot. 😲

Those pics will need someone with a shitload of photoshop talent.

That family has some crazy severe facial features, between Jazz's nose and the cyclops eyeballs of the grandmother and mother... Yikes!

Not to mention Jazz's huge lips.

[sATL]

 not every potential "in-law" is going to like, and hopefully love,  the person their child is currently dating.. or even married to. 

Yes - it could be wonderful and is wonderful , when the two families truly become one and besties (like some other TLC families), but that is not always the case. And some people do take time to warm up to new-comers in the family.

You always hope that the future parents like/love your child, like you do. But some things take time. And it could be a lifetime, sorry.

What is important is how the 2 people in the relationship feel about each other and what they can build, and how they feel about having their family's  approval.

Edited March 6, 2019 by sATL

[twinks]

I'd just be happy if she'd wash her hair...and maybe wax those brows.

[Joan of Argh]

6 minutes ago, Mollysmom said:

Not to mention Jazz's huge lips.

And thank goodness she has long hair because those EARS! 

[Quilty]

Am I seeing things or does Jazz have a mustache? She should do something about that. She's not as cute as she thinks she is. 

[Emmeline]

13 minutes ago, Mollysmom said:

Not to mention Jazz's huge lips.

Women pay to have full lips.  My problem with hers is that she has a terrible habit of biting and sucking them .  It’s like she’s chewing her cud.

[Joan of Argh]

You could see that the boyfriend was uncomfortable having a private conversation on the street with Jazz while she practically hollered VAGINA and every detail of the construction of her VAGINA!!

Jeez get over yourself and try to take other people's feelings into consideration... Maybe he doesn't want to stand there with people walking by and this moron screaming about her VAGINA!!!   🙄

[Joan of Argh]

5 minutes ago, Emmeline said:

Women pay to have full lips.  My problem with hers is that she has a terrible habit of biting and sucking them .  It’s like she’s chewing her cud.

They don't pay to have lips like hers... women pay for full puffy top lips... Jazz has a great big bottom lip and the top lip is thin.

and yes the cud chewing takes the ugly factor to a whole new level. 😲

Her hygiene and manners are basically non-existent.

[sainte-chapelle]

I missed it what was the BF big secret?

[Quilty]

And once again Jazz is laying down all covered up.

[Katydid]

Jeanette sure was reluctant to share that Jazz had surgery complications. If her "job" is to act as an educator and supporter for parents of trans kids, seems a bit unethical to withhold info that would help them make informed decisions. 

[Twopper]

On 3/3/2019 at 7:35 PM, parrotfeathers said:

I've never been able to get invested in the show.  I see the ads for it.  I wondered today why Jazz hasn't mentioned getting her nose fixed.  I guess one part at a time is all they can handle.

She has her mom's nose;  I would have the ears pinned as those jug ears are unattractive.

I have never found her attractive, but as Mr. Webb tells his daughter Emily in "Our Town"--"you're pretty enough for all practical purposes."  Probably not the exact quote, but it has been a while since I played Mrs. Webb.   

So the bra contest was really a hoax or was it for real and it was a joke that it was a hoax?   I laughed so hard at the shoot I scared the cat out of another of her nine lives.  The dress was not cute on her, and everything she wears seems a little loose.  Well, at least the tops do.  Ari seems to dress ok, but Jazz seems to take her dress cues from her mom and grandmother.   I guess she never went thru the period in life of wanting a "training bra," then moving up to a real one.  Maybe a visit to Soma or the lingerie department at a department store for a fitting would help.  Someone has really dropped the ball in instructing her how to dress.  I was annoyed that her mother had to tell her to wear a bra and decent sandals for the interview.  The tie-dye type muumuus she wears are just horrid on a young person.  I recall the interview she did before the surgery where she perched on the stool with her legs apart and her feet on the rungs of the chair.  She need lessons on how to walk, sit, and dress.

I would think after all the hassle she went through to get her body to conform to her female shape, she would take better care to look less sloppy.   Maybe that will come in time.  Or not. 

I guess Ahmir has had his 15 minutes of fame several times over.  I am so not sure what is in it for him other than that.   If I were Greg I would be really concerned.   I can understand being creeped out by the fact that the vagina was made from stomach lining, but it makes no sense to me that she would have not told him that earlier--especially as she is more than willing to share details. 

I wonder if she went to college in the fall or started in January or if she is still at home with her instapot and cats.    I am a bit lost with the timeline except I guess it is still summer as she was wearing shorts in NYC. 

I guess she will remain an activist, but I think her time as a spokesperson for transgender teens is about over, and there are plenty of older adults who may present a better face on the movement than she will, and a new teen will emerge to replace her.  (I am not sure I worded that right, but I am getting sleepy).   I do think Jeanette will continue to work with the moms, but there will soon be more voices and she will be less visible.  

I hope there is not another season of this as I think it would be really good for Jazz to be out of the public eye as much as possible for a few years.  Maybe a follow-up show or two after her sophomore year at college.  

Best part of his episode.  The shop with the cats.  Wish I had seen more interaction with the kitties.

[Mollysmom]

57 minutes ago, Joan of Argh said:

They don't pay to have lips like hers... women pay for full puffy top lips... Jazz has a great big bottom lip and the top lip is thin.

and yes the cud chewing takes the ugly factor to a whole new level. 😲

Her hygiene and manners are basically non-existent.

Her upper lip bugs me - it practically touches the bottom of her nose. She could be halfway pretty if she would have a nose job, fix the ears, and maybe her fat lips wouldn't look so bad if her nose was smaller. 

[Visaman666]

36 minutes ago, Twopper said:

I wonder if she went to college in the fall or started in January or if she is still at home with her instapot and cats.    I am a bit lost with the timeline except I guess it is still summer as she was wearing shorts in NYC. 8

She had the surgery on June 26, 2018. Three weeks would make it July 16, so we might be in early August now.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Visaman666

[truebluesmoky]

She wouldn’t have gone to college in the fall because this is her senior year of high school she’s in now, right?

Also, wearing a bra is not acting like a girl. Shaving hair on your upper lip is not acting like a girl. Washing your hair is not acting like a girl. Waxing your eyebrows is not acting like a girl. Jazz is a girl, period. All of that stuff is every individual’s choice, regardless of gender.

Regarding Ahmir...

Spoiler

According to his Instagram, he has come out as non-binary and is heavily into LGBTQ advocacy now. Please excuse me if I’m not using Ahmir’s correct pronouns as a non-binary individual. That information was not on his/their Instagram.

Edited March 6, 2019 by truebluesmoky

[nutella fitzgerald]

I cannot overstate how unpleasant I found the Jazz Hates Bras montage. Has her mother not explained to her that the rest of us don’t like wearing them, either? Are teenage girls really just opting out of bras now because they prefer not to wear them, as though they were some kind of Bartleby the Scrivener except with undergarments? I really never thought I would be a “Back in MY day!!!” before voting in my fifth presidential election, but here we are.

[Callaphera]

"A Shot in the Vagina", the updated version of the 1988 classic A Cry in the Dark, this week on I Am Jazz('s Mom). 

Ahmir: "...by allowing my mom and Jazz to talk..." Allowing. Because you're the man and you allow the women to speak. They need your permission in order to speak. And no, you can argue that he's young and maybe didn't understand his word choice but I don't believe that. There's something about this kid that I can't quite put my finger on... oh, right. He's totally an actor, right? Because I swear, I have more chemistry with my toast-with-peanut-butter every morning than these two have with each other. Actually, scratch that: me+coffee=BAE.

MIRACLE OF MIRACLES, Y'ALL! Jazz's mom found two - count 'em, two - shirts that covered her shoulders this episode. Jazz only lounged around like a bump on a log three times this episode. But I couldn't keep up with the count for how many times vagina was said because even if I joked about a shot for every time, this message would be coming from beyond the grave. 

ETA: Oh, wow. There's snark - which is what I aim for every week and hope I hit - and then there's just being hateful and taking it too far. Damn. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Callaphera

[SuseQ]

It was rude of Jazz to hang up on Ahmir’s mother.  

A nose job would improve her looks.  A nose job would improve my looks. Lol

[Joan of Argh]

2 hours ago, SuseQ said:

It was rude of Jazz to hang up on Ahmir’s mother.  

A nose job would improve her looks.  A nose job would improve my looks. Lol

No one is allowed to disagree with Jazz!  

I guess amhirs mom didn't get the memo and forgot to bow down to queen nitwit on the phone.

People there's an IGNORE button.

🙄

Edited March 6, 2019 by Joan of Argh

[Barb23]

8 hours ago, Joan of Argh said:

You could see that the boyfriend was uncomfortable having a private conversation on the street with Jazz while she practically hollered VAGINA and every detail of the construction of her VAGINA!!

Jeez get over yourself and try to take other people's feelings into consideration... Maybe he doesn't want to stand there with people walking by and this moron screaming about her VAGINA!!!   🙄

I was thinking the same thing.  Why did their conversations have to take place on the street esp the one after seeing Dr Ting & they were standing in the rain?

7 hours ago, Katydid said:

Jeanette sure was reluctant to share that Jazz had surgery complications. If her "job" is to act as an educator and supporter for parents of trans kids, seems a bit unethical to withhold info that would help them make informed decisions. 

I agree.  Even the one mother said she wanted to know everything "the good, the bad & the ugly" which makes sense. Why gloss over the complications when they were part of the journey? (Except I do agree with Jeanette that Jazz doesn't need to go in great detail every time she explains about the complications.) 

I'm thinking Jeanette doesn't want to tarnish the "Perfect Jazz" persona she has created by telling everyone Jazz's original surgery didn't go as well as they thought it would.  She could say it had complications (as the doctors predicted it probably would) but they were able to obtain a favorable outcome with a second surgery.  Details of the complications could be told depending on who they were talking to. I think anyone contemplating surgery would benefit but the general public that watches JuJu's interview doesn't need to know.

I'm confused about the bra photo shoot & think I missed something.  How does a fully clothed teenage girl dancing around advertise bras?  Is she supposed to convey  that wearing one of her brand of bras will make you feel that carefree to dance around?  Shouldn't there have been a photo of her just wearing one of the bras or was this done & TLC chose not to put it in the show?  Were they doing an article on how her brand of bras came to be & these were photos for the article? Like I said, I'm confused. Maybe I dozed off & missed something. 

Speaking of bras, I'm newer to Jazz's journey & have a question about her breast development.  Did she have implants done or did her breasts grow when she started taking estrogen or a combo of both?  

Edited March 6, 2019 by Barb23

[TwirlyGirly]

53 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

<snip> Speaking of bras, I'm newer to Jazz's journey & have a question about her breast development.  Did she have implants done or did her breasts grow when she started taking estrogen or a combo of both?  

Estrogen only, and at the time they became noticable, I remember thinking "I'll have whatever she's having, please!" 😉

Signed,

Lifetime member of the IBTS*

*Itty-Bitty Titty Society

[lilly6]

Ahmir's behavior in this episode totally started me thinking that he may be gay and closeted, and that dating a transgender girl was some kind of middle ground in his mind or something.  Something was just off.  Not surprised to hear that he's come out as non-binary.  I just hope his developing this relationship wasn't at Jazz's expense.

Those open-shoulder tops and dresses have been all over my little corner of the world for about a year and a half now.

I like Jazz. I think she's funny and while she may be OTT at times I think her openness could actually benefit awareness because she is so very candid. 

[Visaman666]

2 hours ago, Barb23 said:

.I'm confused about the bra photo shoot & think I missed something.    

They mentioned that the fashion shoot was a hoax, to get Jazz to wear a bra.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Visaman666

[bichonblitz]

Let's see...Amir has no job and doesn't appear to care much for having one. He is negative, immature and complains a lot. When Jazz goes in for a hug, he barely touches her. What a catch!

[Madding crowd]

4 minutes ago, Visaman666 said:

They mentioned that the fashion shoot was a hoax, to get Jazz to wear a bra.

It’s not a hoax. Jazz is appearing on Instagram wearing this bra and is featured in the company’s ad campaign. They joked that it was a hoax but it was real. 

[maggiegil]

I cannot believe Jeanette actually told Jazz to not mention the complications because it might put children off from wanting the same surgery. What trans kids need is the truth about procedures and what they are doing to their bodies by getting a medical procedure like Jazz had.

It made me curious so I went on Jeanette's foundations page and its just full of nonsense, no actual information. If you look under their page on studies, they have 2 cherry picked ones about how great transition is. There are studies done with cis children who were given puberty blockers that show what it does to their bones and how it effects their brain by lowering their IQ, it was recreated in a trans boy where it also had significant effects on his brain, that should be on this page. That is the kind of information that parents who are visiting a site like Jeanettes need, they don't need a fluffy version of the truth they need the actual truth not nonsense FAQs like who my child will marry, real information about the drugs and surgeries Jeanette gave to her child and is trying to promote.

I give Jeannette a lot of leeway for the choices that she and Greg made in relation to Jazz, they know her best but I draw the line when she is trying to obfuscate the truth from other parents and children who don't have the resources that she has.

[Cotypubby]

54 minutes ago, Visaman666 said:

They mentioned that the fashion shoot was a hoax, to get Jazz to wear a bra.

That was a joke.

[Linny]

Jazz's conversation with Ahmir's mother was hard to watch, and I think Jazz's approach to the issue was unsophisticated and lacking. The question "what about me being transgender do you not understand?" is too simplistic and not very helpful. Ahmir's mother (and others like her) understand the concept of being transgender just fine, they just don't recognize it, accept it, or respect it as being valid. That's the problem Jazz will always face: a giant asterisk attached to her identity that labels her as different, as less than, despite all evidence to the contrary. Convincing people like Ahmir's mom to accept her is a tough task, because it's hard to overcome deeply entrenched prejudice. It's hard to rewire a brain to not see gender and biology as either/or, and to see that there are areas where the lines are blurred and that's okay. Jazz has to be firm in the face of her dissenters, acknowledging their feelings without giving up in exasperation, while steadfastly living her truth. Change is not going to happen in one phone call. A constant diligence to the reality that transgender people are legitimate, present, and worthy is the slow road to reshaping ignorance.

[Kid]

11 hours ago, Twopper said:

I can understand being creeped out by the fact that the vagina was made from stomach lining, but it makes no sense to me that she would have not told him that earlier--especially as she is more than willing to share details. 

He seems creeped out by sex, period.  Something is “off” about him.

[Kid]

1 hour ago, Linny said:

A constant diligence to the reality that transgender people are legitimate, present, and worthy is the slow road to reshaping ignorance.

Just because people do not agree with her point of view does not make them ignorant.  She takes that approach in this episode and she takes that approach every time she encounters someone who disagrees and does not accept.  Her mother does the same thing.  It is not helpful and it convinces no one.  In fact, that attitude does more harm than it does good.

Amir’s mom is not going to be informed and be accepting after one phone call with a magical Jazz.  It does not work like that.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Kid

[maggiegil]

I just watched the end of the episode where Jazz hung up on Ahmir's Mom. Does Jazz really think a black single mother doesn't understand what inequality is?

[SuseQ]

Wow; Jazz's three transgender girlfriends are very pretty.  Sweet too.  The trend of blocking puberty definitely makes for a more feminine appearance and voice. Though presents more issues for surgery. 

[shouldbedancing]

As rude as Ahmir's mom was, I kinda believe her about Ahmir's attitudes towards the LGTBQ community in the past. Look at who he grew up with. It would make sense. He didn't know better. He should own up to it. I think Ahmir is too immature for this. They both are. They have better things to focus on.

[Adiba]

13 hours ago, Katydid said:

Jeanette sure was reluctant to share that Jazz had surgery complications. If her "job" is to act as an educator and supporter for parents of trans kids, seems a bit unethical to withhold info that would help them make informed decisions. 

Jeanette also has to realize that now that Jazz is an adult (at least technically), it is Jazz’s story to tell. Jeanette can tell her perspective/ narrative as the parent of a transgender daughter, but should not think she can control what Jazz says about her own journey.

I agree, it is unethical and a disservice to other parents of transgender children to sugarcoat the truth or omit information about the medical procedures and surgery (ies) involved.

[SunnyBeBe]

I think that Jazz is a very lovely girl and that her natural beauty is enough.  Unfortunately, she is pretty rough around the edges on etiquette and discretion.  She's short on patience and just plows through anything that she considers an obstacle.  I thought that her manipulation skills did come in handy when talking to Ahmir's mom though.  When his mom said it would not be her wish for her son to be in a relationship with a transgender person, Jazz quipped back with, You, might not prefer it, but, would you accept it?  She's pretty good at figuring a way to get her way.  lol

Jeannette seems to be a person who can't deal with reality and she doesn't think others can either.  When Jazz faced so many challenges in her surgery journey she and her husband were livid that they had not expected so many complications.  So, if they felt they didn't prepare enough due to lack of information, WHY wouldn't other parents want as much information as possible.  But, NOOOO, Jeannette thinks hiding the truth is best.  How bizarre.  And those younger children who are up for surgery were also hormone blocked at an early age.  I guess with this show, they are now on notice.

I agree about how something is odd with Ahmir's behavior.  He seems TOO focused on finding somewhere to stay. With no job and no school plans, that's bizarre to me.   I would doubt his motives.  His comments about NYC were strange too.    So negative.  But, his mother was negative too.  You can't change everyone's mind on some issues.  Not in one phone call, anyway. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

11 hours ago, Callaphera said:

MIRACLE OF MIRACLES, Y'ALL! Jazz's mom found two - count 'em, two - shirts that covered her shoulders this episode. 

The great hunt for shoulders has borne fruit!  I, like many of us, will be happy when that fashion trend fizzles out. 

While I am not a tie-dye fan, I appreciate that Jazz chooses to wear what she is most comfortable in and makes her own decisions on hair and makeup.  We don't need a mini-Jeanette.  Jazz is at the age when many young people are really establishing their own style.  She's found hers, and she may adjust it over time and based on circumstances.  For now she is still in high school and lives in a warm climate.  She is comfortable in her loose dresses.  I appreciated her saying I'm not curling my hair and I'm not wearing makeup.  If it's not her, why do it?  

[ClareWalks]

The girls Jazz met up with are totally stunning and sweet. I want to kick their bullies' asses for them.

[PradaKitty]

Nice to see Jazz wearing a bra. When your breasts are on the larger side, having and wearing  a good fitting bra is very important. If she continues to go without a bra her boobs will be near her waist by the time she’s 30. 

in my experience, anything larger than a B cup should not be free range... 

i also think Jazz is very pretty and shouldn’t have a nose job unless she wants one. 

For the record, I am a D cup and had a nose job at 17. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

20 minutes ago, MrFluffy said:

Now I'm watching the ep. Wait a minute! "His mom is saying 'my son is gay' and all these other 'crappy' things..." Really? Being gay is a "crappy thing?" I guess Jazz is not all that accepting of others' lifestyles.

When Ahmir's mom is saying he is gay it is in reference to Ahmir liking Jazz.  So she is denying that Jazz is a girl. So the crappy thing is, to complete the sentence for her, "His mom is saying 'my son is gay' because he likes me."  I don't think Jazz is anti-gay.  She is anti people claiming that a man liking a transgender woman is gay because it is a roundabout way of saying the transgender person is not the gender that they are. 

[TzuShih]

How can a bright, creative, articulate young girl like Jazz have "butterflies in her stomach" over a guy who looks at NYC's most dramatic-looking building, The Flatiron, and comments "What a waste of space!"  (And a whole city wept!!)  :-(  

[MissTeacher13]

1 minute ago, TzuShih said:

How can a bright, creative, articulate young girl like Jazz have "butterflies in her stomach" over a guy who looks at NYC's most dramatic-looking building, The Flatiron, and comments "What a waste of space!"  (And a whole city wept!!)  😞

It’s the fantasy idea of being in a relationship. I have seen this too often with young people I work with. 

[possibilities]

I think the "he's gay" thing was badly handled. Jazz did eventually ask "what's wrong with being gay?" but it took a while for her to get there, because she was mostly focused on being misgendered.

I was disappointed that she did not have a better plan for how to handle the conversation. I would have expected her and Ahmir to discuss what his mom was thinking and saying to him about all of this, and come up with a plan for effective ways to respond to predictable elements of the conversation. They knew they were going to be having the talk, so it's not like they were taken by surprise. And they knew it would be filmed and a lot of people would see it. But neither of them took the time to really prepare, so it came off badly.

They both went into argument mode, when I think it would have been more effective to lead with things like "I hope once we get to know each other, you'll find yourself liking me and approving of our relationship," or responding with questions or information that would de-escalate the arguing dynamic. For instance, wrt the issue of having kids, Jazz could say that she knows that is important to a lot of people, but it was really crucial for her own health to go through with the transition, and she hoped that if she and Ahmir stayed together long term and decided to have children, that they would adopt, or use a surrogate, like other couple dealing with infertility. I wouldn't want her to back down, or fail to self-advocate. But I think the way she approached it was not the best.

But honestly, when people are being shitty to you, it's not really wrong to be annoyed with them, and I'd rather the world be populated by people who are decent to others in general but get angry over bigotry, than a world where bigots get to be hostile and nobody confronts them.

And, again, Jazz and Ahmir are teens. Not a demographic known for its temperate, level-headed, long-term strategic thinking under pressure. It actually could have gone worse, I suppose.