S03.E14: The Graduates

[Katy M]

6 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Both Beth and Randall should consider jobs with normal hours. Beth has her dream job but did she think about working nights and the problems it might cause when she took it? Or did she think "oh Randall should give up his job so I can take these night hours ?"  She didn't put any thought in taking the job with those hours.  They both should have talked over their job hours.

For years, Randall worked a job 90 hours a week with an hour commute both ways.  He said 90, not me.  So, it's clear that family time has never really been that big a priority for him.  And, how many night hours does a Councilman work?   Council meetings once a month are probably in the evening, but I'm sure the rest of his job can be done during the day.  Except in the winter, because he did promise to go an dpersonally shovel everyone's driveway.

49 minutes ago, debraran said:

If Randall gave up the $$$ cars and his many plane trips (although this was nice)

Yes, this is the one spontaneous cross country trip I will give him, because quite serioiusly, Kate and/or the baby could die and this actually was a drop everything and run moment. 

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

I think some or all of the girls have after-school activities to which they need to be driven. 

Other kids are at these after-school activities, and I bet they could make deals with the parents of their friends to just drop them off at the house after.  Maybe in exchange for taking their kids to school in the morning, as it doesn't really look like a bus is involved anywhere, so they probably need a ride whether they have activities or not.

[ByaNose]

How come sober Kevin and drunk Kevin never look any different? It was kind of sad when he was begging Kate not to tell. He looked like a little kid. I'm sure Kate has been doing that her life, too. Sad.

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Madison inventing the mojito was a nice touch too. 

Yes, but I have to nitpick a little and say I wasn't a fan of her telling the bartender "just make it." Excuse me?  Supposed to be funny, I know, but fell flat to me and I always bristle at people in the service industry being treated that way. 

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, Katy M said:

And, though they didn't really show much of her, I still love Madison.  Sure, sometimes she's too perky, but she's just such a good friend and always there.

I said " ... A mojito?" right before the bartender did when she announced the drink she "invented." It was a funny moment.

9 hours ago, Katy M said:

That teacher was completely in the wrong, and it's nice that she took it down and apologized, but the damage is done.

I was so mad at the teacher. You don't post stuff on the internet without permission! My friends with kids talk about having to sign waivers in case their kids end up on the school's website, and here this teacher goes publishing a personal essay online for the whole internet to see without permission. I'd have been furious.

I don't know why Randall thinks they need, like, a child psychologist nanny for the kids. Hire a psych undergrad (like I was, and I did a ton of babysitting in college) or grad student if they want someone who is attuned to child issues, but that's really all they need. My friend is a dance teacher with two young kids (younger than Beth and Randall's), but her husband is an elementary school teacher so his hours are more regular (they live out of the country so they don't have much of a support system to help). This seems like a conversation they should have had when Beth announced that she wanted to teach.

13 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

How come sober Kevin and drunk Kevin never look any different? 

Oh, I thought they did a good job making Kevin look just a little off - more rumpled, kind of, than usual (though he looked fantastic in that blue jacket). And he looked a hot mess when he hit bottom at his high school event last season.

I think Rebecca's grief AND Kevin's addiction are being handled very well. Both are processes, you know? Neither are "snap your fingers and I'm over it" things. Grief can be lifelong - we see how it touches the Big Three's lives, years later.

I know at the graduation, we're years from Miguel and Rebecca liking each other That Way, but I thought he was incredibly supportive there.

[Marathonrunner]

I was really hoping that perhaps Deja had misunderstood the directions for the writing assignment - maybe the teacher had told the class that some of their work would be published, maybe that info was written on the assignment sheet & Deja forgot or lost the instructions - anything so that Randall didn't get to, once again, be all speechy & self-righteous - then he gets to do it all over at home suggesting that Beth needs to rethink her new job - something they both should have done before he started that ridiculous campaign

[Liamsmom617]

What a dick move by Randall!! Come on, no one is THAT oblivious and dumb. I'm so done with that character right now! Why should Beth give up what is making her so happy and fulfilled? YOU give up your stupid political career, asshole! 

Props to Justin Hartley....this show doesn't make me cry often, but when Kate insisted he go to an AA meeting and he broke down and said, "I can't"....wow. And poor Kevin...as usual, when it's about him and not one of his sibs for 5 minutes, some tragedy happens to Kate. Not blaming her, of course (though I do blame the writers for being predictable there), but that just ALWAYS seems to happen to Kevin. 

[Runningwild]

Does Randall really need to be in Philadelphia all the time? Why can’t he work from home? Skype, phone, email?

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Runningwild said:

Does Randall really need to be in Philadelphia all the time? Why can’t he work from home? Skype, phone, email?

I think he could do all that, but it might just underline the fact that he is an outsider, still doesn't live there (or even that state) or appear there in person much.  Which didn't seem to matter to a lot of the voters . . . it's all a bit nonsensical. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by ShadowFacts

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

For years, Randall worked a job 90 hours a week with an hour commute both ways.  He said 90, not me.

You're right. So, would Beth just go out and take the job with night hours and expect him to quit his old job so she can live her dream?

[Katy M]

23 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

Does Randall really need to be in Philadelphia all the time? Why can’t he work from home? Skype, phone, email?

Considering the fact that he really is supposed to live in his district, that would be a bunch of BS, IMO.  They should actually move to Philly.  That way Randall could probably take a break to pick up the kids from school.  But, they might actually have school buses in Philly.

[kili]

People have shelved their dreams to allow Randall to live his dreams all his life. He has grown to expect it.

Beth brought up the same issues with regards to their children when she asked him to quit the race (which he had promised her he would do if she ever asked). Now, all she is asking for is three nights a week and a few hours on the weekend to pursue her dream and he tells her that she's asking for too much because the kids need her. 

After a while, it gets hard to constantly shelve your dreams so that you can support your spouse to live every one of theirs. 

Although, Randall does take it up to another level. "I can't be here to support you for your interviews because I have to follow my brother on his search for our uncle because he is in a vulnerable place and if this uncle thing turns south, he might relapse...Oh, this uncle thing went completely south and you're spiralling? Well, you see, I have to be home to support my family so you just handle this on your own...BTW Beth our family needs more support. You should totally quit your dream job because I'm going to be uber busy doing my dream job you begged me not to take. Got a plane to catch!"

Edited March 6, 2019 by kili

[Katy M]

Yep.  Here's where Randall went wrong.

1. He should have never run for councilman in a place he doesn't even live.

2. He should have quit the race when Beth asked him to, as he had promised. 

3. He shouldn't have gone on the Uncle Nicky hunt with Kevin. He should have suggested that they write a letter and see if Nicky even wanted to be bothered.  He could help with the letter.  I don't have much of a problem with him leaving when he did because he should have never left in the first place and he theoretically had to get Kate to the airport, who also shouldn't have come in the first place and needed to get home.

4. He and Beth should have gotten together and decided what hours would be feasible for Beth to work before she started making plans and getting excited about something that apparently can't happen now.

5. They should be making plans to move to Philly when the school year is over because it's not right for him not to live in his district. This will also make child care (or at least rides) easier to manage.

6. (out of chrono order) he shouldn't have flown across country when Kate had her egg extraction.  That was unnecessary and costly at a time when his time would have been better spent at home.  On another note, it was good for him to fly across the country now.  More urgent, serious situation, and if Kate were to die he would have a hard time forgiving himself for not being there.  Completely understandable.

[milner]

I think the children are wildly over scheduled by the looks of Randall’s chart. Sit the kids down and have them pick their favourite activity and one or more they wouldn’t miss if they were dropped Then change the chart and see how it looks. Kids that age often like/need some down time. Get Randall to commit to at least one night he’ll guarantee to be home. Get déjà to give one night and hire a local sitter (not a professional psychologist for heavens sake ) for the third. And maybe Rebecca and Miquel can pitch in on occasion. These are two smart people surely they can reach a compromise that works.   But Randal just unilaterally decides for them all.  

[PRgal]

Ummm, writers, how does one live in New Jersey and fly out to LA in what seems like less than three hours, considering one has to buy a ticket and, you know, drive to the airport?  I get that there's a time difference, but it also didn't seem like it was the following morning.  I mean, it was already, what, 9 PM ET when Beth got home, right?  Say, the call came around 9:30.  Randall would still have to look up flights, buy the ticket and drive to the airport.  Say he was able to get a midnight flight.  It's five hours to LA, I think.  Realistically, he won't be at the hospital until at least, what, 3 AM LA time (6 AM NJ time)?  JUST SAYIN'!

Not liking Randall's attitude about asking Beth to put things on hold.  We women have been doing this kind of thing for AGES and we don't want to do it anymore!

[Trillian]

11 hours ago, ams1001 said:

That bit about getting a sitter who's up on newly-out tweens or however he put it bugged me. Tess is not in some kind of existential crisis that all the adults around her need to be super-sensitive to just because she's recently figured out she's likes girls. 

Bugged me too.  I wish they'd stop treating her (possibly) being a lesbian as some kind of crisis that needs to be managed. 

[kili]

16 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Ummm, writers, how does one live in New Jersey and fly out to LA in what seems like less than three hours, considering one has to buy a ticket and, you know, drive to the airport? 

Kevin mentioned that the treatment they were giving Kate had prolonged her pregnancy for 10 hours, so that means Randall had at least 10 hours to get there. The flight is about 5 hours. So, the timeline is tight, but doable. LAX and the New York area are major hubs, so there are lost of flights between them. 

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Ummm, writers, how does one live in New Jersey and fly out to LA in what seems like less than three hours

Kevin said her labor had been postponed for 10 hours.

[ShadowFacts]

24 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Not liking Randall's attitude about asking Beth to put things on hold.  We women have been doing this kind of thing for AGES and we don't want to do it anymore!

Hell to the yes on this.  Either Beth refuses this and they work out other scheduling (like milner suggests) or she goes along with his crap request and builds resentment that ultimately ends in them splitting, as was suggested in the flash-forward.  He was all moony and baby-we-can-do-anything when Beth came back from her mother's and told him her dream.  Now he can put his money where his mouth is. 

[ByaNose]

Now, we know why Beth & Randall don't "appear" to be together in the flash foward. Because he's such an a**. I can't believe that he said she needs to give up her dream job to pick up the slack for the family. WTF?

[TwoGrayTabbies]

A logical plan for Beth and Randall:

1.  Sell house, relocate to Randall’s district.  Then he can legitimately say he’s serious about serving this community.  He shouldn’t have run in the first place, but too late to go back. I won’t object if they enroll kids in private, parochial, or charter school.

2.  Downscale lifestyle by selling car and other luxury items and replace with more modest choices.

3.  Beth takes job in urban planning (I believe that was her field), volunteers to teach dance to underprivileged kids in community organization.  (Quite frankly, I’m having a hard time buying her dance-is-my passion when she’s been away from it for like 2 decades and she was happy and successful in another career.)

4.  Realize that personal fulfillment doesn’t require high-price lifestyle and pursuit of dreams/ passions at any cost. Find contentment in family, community, and hobbies.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Randall was great for the first time in a while for me because he finally got a plot with at least one of his kids instead of bullshit career stuff. It's been a season since we last saw Randall spend time with any of his kids. I'd rather Tess or Annie get some love, but Deja's not a bad choice. Plus, it really reminded me why I did like Randall once upon a time....well, right up until the last 12 minutes when he asked Beth to put aside her dreams. I thought maybe that he'd say that he was going to resign from office or that they would move to Philly or something. 

Me watching “I remember now why I loved Randall so hard. He’s going to resign for Beth! Oh wow. That’s awesome..... wait. He sucks.”

[hula-la]

As a teacher, there's no way that I would have published a student's writing without their permission. I specifically ask permission of any student to keep an assignment or project to show future students, or if it's a poster-type project that is being posted in the class, I specifically have them put their names on the back, so others can't see it. Students deserve their privacy as much as adults do. I felt a little bad that the teacher cried, but only a tiny, tiny bit.

And Randall.  I thought bad words when you had the audacity to tell your wife that she needs to quit her job.  I agree with all the above posters that there are lots of qualified college/university students who would do a fabulous job with the girls. It's only that phone call that saved you from getting a whole world of hurt from Beth.

[TwoGrayTabbies]

6 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Selfish is a two way street.  Some how Randall is selfish, and Beth is not?

In and of itself, it is selfish for Beth to suddenly reveal that notwithstanding her successful career, she’s been pining all along for a career in dance, so she’s going to quit looking for a job in her field and take a low-paying job as a dance instructor.  However, her selfishness is nothing compared to Randall’s quixotic political career.  So Randall’s objection is sheer chutzpah.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

Quickly googling "city councilman average salary" I got 42,000 per year. So Randall isn't making much money either. Plus his commute is 3 hours per day according to Beth. So he is unavailable far more than Beth is for probably around the same amount of money.

I thought it strange that Miguel was telling Rebecca to go to grief counseling while she was actively sobbing. That was more than crying; that was almost a panic attack. I thought he should have comforted her first and then suggested counseling. There is nothing wrong with that suggestion but it felt like he was trying to "fix" her rather than just let her feel her feelings in that moment. It would have annoyed me, I think. She was able to pull it together though so maybe I'm wrong and it was what she needed to hear.

[ShadowFacts]

8 minutes ago, hula-la said:

As a teacher, there's no way that I would have published a student's writing without their permission. I specifically ask permission of any student to keep an assignment or project to show future students, or if it's a poster-type project that is being posted in the class, I specifically have them put their names on the back, so others can't see it. Students deserve their privacy as much as adults do. I felt a little bad that the teacher cried, but only a tiny, tiny bit.

When the teacher said it doesn't take much to make her cry, or words to that effect, I thought that middle school might be a tough spot for her unless she and her students are fine with frequent tears. 

2 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Selfish is a two way street.  Some how Randall is selfish, and Beth is not?

My problem with the selfishness of Randall is two-fold:  1) he gave Beth the impression he was fully behind her realizing her dream, encouraging her, taking her to the school, etc., and 2) he himself sat out paid employment for months, after years of working excessive hours, because he wanted to, but now that he recognizes some financial and family impacts, it is Beth who has to put a pin in their plans.  He set her up to believe he was behind her, but when the colors on the anal-retentive schedule he made freaked him out, sorry Beth, you need to be home more.  Did he think dance classes took place only during the hours their children were in school?  No, that's when they mostly don't take place. 

[Eureka]

9 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Weird question, but I was very distracted in the scenes with Kate.  It looked like she got smacked and had a bump on her right cheek (left facing the camera).  I first noticed it when she was in bed and Toby woke her up, but it was still there during the graduation.  Don't know if it was camera angles or what but I never noticed that before.  Am I the only one who saw it? 

Otherwise I liked the episode except for Randall asking Beth to give up on the dance teaching for a while.  I wanted to smack him.

I noticed that too and wondered if it was her cheekbone or a bruise or what.

[txhorns79]

57 minutes ago, deaja said:

Me watching “I remember now why I loved Randall so hard. He’s going to resign for Beth! Oh wow. That’s awesome..... wait. He sucks.”

Yeah, Randall is pretty terrible.  With Beth, it's even worse because last week he was all into her pursuing her dreams until he finds out this week that he might have to make a sacrifice.  Now it's suddenly, "Beth you need to quit because my job being on the city council, in a city and state where we don't live, is more important."   

[Neurochick]

4 hours ago, ByaNose said:

How come sober Kevin and drunk Kevin never look any different? It was kind of sad when he was begging Kate not to tell. He looked like a little kid. I'm sure Kate has been doing that her life, too. Sad.

Because in real life, that's how it is.  Kevin is an alcoholic, so he knows how to "act" so to speak.  Kate knew something was off with him, Zoe didn't.  

At first I was annoyed at Randall for asking Beth to give up her teaching job, and then I remembered how long Randall himself worked for the family, in fact they both did.  They have to figure out a way to work it out.  

Edited March 6, 2019 by Neurochick

[Jodithgrace]

I am not an expert in this subject. Is it possible to delay labor for a long period if the water has broken? I know that labor can be delayed for weeks under certain medications, but I thought that once the water has broken you have passed the point of no return, because the amniotic fluid is essential for the baby's survival. 

I honestly don't understand how Randall could just give up his councilman's seat, after being elected. I do think that moving to Philly would solve a lot of their problems. But doesn't Beth know what's going on in their finances? Randall immediately closed the budget spreadsheet when Beth came home. Maybe if she were included in the financial planning, she would realize that a low paying, dream job, is not going to work out. But Randall is totally wrong to just pull the rug out from under her after telling her to go for it. She seemed to have no idea how they were going to pull that off and just assumed that it was going to be all right. 

Pretty handy that there just happened to be a Grief counseling meeting just when Rebecca needed it. I don't think it's quite like AA where you can find a meeting at almost any time.  Plus, she just turned off the tv and called Miguel without doing any investigating. Just because he mentioned the idea of a meeting didn't mean that he had their schedule committed to memory. 

Kevin's story was the most realistic. From what I understand, very few people achieve sobriety on their first try. He's got to be honest with Zoe, but the cat seems to be out of the bag now, so he'd better hurry up and tell her before she finds out on her own. That is the worst case scenario for their relationship. 

[Ohiopirate02]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I get that teen Kate was upset and self conscious and mourning Jack's death, but I can guarantee you that no one in the audience would have been thinking any of the things she was worried about ("Look at that poor girl whose dad just died," "Did you hear she isn't going to college?") because all the parents and relatives are just focused on "OMG, my sweet little Bobby Joe is graduating!!" Seriously, sometimes it isn't all about you, Kate.

I disagree.  I totally saw Kate's point about all the pitying glances she would be receiving while at graduation.  I still remember the first family party I attended after my dad passed away.  I received so may awkward glances from everyone.  I was the girl who's dad had died.  People just stare at you from across the room and you feel it all the time.  They avoid you but keep on staring.  It was worse that what Kate would have experienced because these were my dad's nieces and nephews that would not speak nor make eye contact with me.  

[Blakeston]

So Randall and Beth didn't realize until now - after Beth has begun teaching her dance classes - that it's an issue for her to take a job that pays very little, and keeps her away from home on evenings and weekends, while her husband spends all his time in Philly or on the road?

They couldn't figure that out until Deja explicitly stated that she likes having some structure in her life? That's not something they could have figured out for themselves?

I'm just so sick of Randall having absolutely limitless funds, until the plot requires him to have a financial concern, which is forgotten a moment later (like when flies across the country at a moment's notice).

[fsuheater]

Many people in this thread are presuming the commission spot is a full time position. I live in Florida and have done a lot work with city commissions and local government councils. While city official roles vary, the vast majority of local government officials have full time jobs. In many cases, they are practicing attorneys, doctors, etc. I don’t think of a commissioner as a full time position. A mayor, yes. But not a board of officials serving the community. Yes, it would require time out in the community and at events....but most I know have regular jobs in their field (again, some are practicing lawyers, builders, etc) and they simply attend monthly commission meetings, community events and meetings as necessary.

Of course, this is also TV land, so who knows. 😉

[Katy M]

42 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I think that also would have been wrong.   The only reason there was any expectation that he might quit is because of poor poll numbers, that he supposedly had no chance to win. 

I don't see how it would have been wrong to back out.  There was no real commitment made until he had won.  Heck, when she asked him to quit, "nobody" wanted him anyway.  It was that stupid speech by the minister at the 11th hour that got him enough votes.

An election campaign is like a job interview.  Either side can decide to go either way until it's over.  I will say that if he were running for President and had one of the two major party nominations it would be different, but that's definitely not what happened here.

1 minute ago, fsuheater said:

n many cases, they are practicing attorneys, doctors, etc. I don’t think of a commissioner as a full time position.

I was wondering about that, too, but I'm from a small town, so figured maybe there was more work expected in a big city.  Randall will manage to make it a full-time job, 90 hours a week, holidays and weekends, have no fear.

[JudyObscure]

12 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Both Beth and Randall should consider jobs with normal hours. Beth has her dream job but did she think about working nights and the problems it might cause when she took it? Or did she think "oh Randall should give up his job so I can take these night hours ?"  She didn't put any thought in taking the job with those hours.  They both should have talked over their job hours.

I agree. I think Beth was wrong to take a job working evenings during the only hours she's likely to see her kids. They aren't Deja's responsibility and while they are Randall's responsibility, he's earning much more money right now and the family probably couldn't make it financially if he quit.   Having kids is a choice and most parents sacrifice for their kids at some point. Waiting a few more years to teach evening dance classes is not that enormous a sacrifice.  The kids are all going to be teens soon and while some people think that's a good time to start leaving them alone in the evenings there's plenty of evidence that it's, in some ways, the worst time to do that.  It may not be fair of Randall to ask her to "put a pin in it," but at least he seems to be thinking of what's best for the kids. 

[Biggie B]

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

Ummm, writers, how does one live in New Jersey and fly out to LA in what seems like less than three hours,

Right before Randall appeared in the doorway of Kate's hospital room, Kevin did say to Kate, "Hey, the medication they gave has stopped your labor for 10 hours now." So as wacky as it would be, assuming Randall was called and told about Kate as she was being admitted, ten hours *might* be enough time to go online, snag a ticket, and race to the airport. Unrealistic? Absolutely. But  they did throw in the mention of 10 hours (at least) having elapsed. 

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

am not an expert in this subject. Is it possible to delay labor for a long period if the water has broken? I know that labor can be delayed for weeks under certain medications, but I thought that once the water has broken you have passed the point of no return, because the amniotic fluid is essential for the baby's survival. 

In the hospital where you can actively monitor for infection, you can delay labor longer. Also, sometimes the sac can rupture but not truly break so there will be leakage and a lady will think her water broke, but it didn’t truly break.

[Blakeston]

35 minutes ago, fsuheater said:

Many people in this thread are presuming the commission spot is a full time position. I live in Florida and have done a lot work with city commissions and local government councils. While city official roles vary, the vast majority of local government officials have full time jobs. In many cases, they are practicing attorneys, doctors, etc. I don’t think of a commissioner as a full time position. A mayor, yes. But not a board of officials serving the community. Yes, it would require time out in the community and at events....but most I know have regular jobs in their field (again, some are practicing lawyers, builders, etc) and they simply attend monthly commission meetings, community events and meetings as necessary.

Of course, this is also TV land, so who knows. 😉

If his job is only part-time, doesn't that make Randall even more of a jerk for expecting Beth to quit her job? He should have availability to help pick up the slack when she's working.

[Pallas]

If Toby left to "talk to the doctor" as soon as Kevin entered Kate's room, I'm with him.

Last year, while Kate was newly pregnant, Kevin insulted her away to safe distance as he descended into a drugging and drinking spiral (after she'd correctly guessed that he was at risk of finally experiencing the trauma of Jack's death). Kevin then kept his twin at that distance by lying (after she'd correctly guessed that he was at risk by taking pain-killers). The morning Kate was losing her baby, Kevin was crashing, hungover and driving across Pennsylvania after having just fucked a high school classmate for drugs.

This year, pregnant again, Kate flew cross-country to be there for Kevin if his search for Jack's story and brother should turn on him. At her urging, their uncle told them the story that Kevin had been seeking. In return, Kevin then flew west to hide from his girlfriend and pretend to spend time with Kate, while getting loaded in a hotel suite. That morning, he'd bailed on his promise to help Toby with the party, arrived late and drunk, lied a lot, and left after ten minutes to get another drink. When he didn't return for hours, Kate left Toby (with her mother and Zoe) and went after Kevin: surely explaining why and asking Toby to keep the secret (from her mother and Zoe). 

Kate was driving a reluctant Kevin to an AA meeting when her water broke. Meanwhile, back home and hosting surprise guests Rebecca and Zoe, Toby probably excused himself to take Audio for a walk while his mother-in-law and Beth's cousin discussed Kevin's great heart. A call came in from Kevin: Kate was driving him somewhere but is now heading into labor; he, Kevin, drunk, will call an ambulance and be by her side. Toby needed to wait for the EMT's to arrive and give Kevin the name of the hospital nearest Kevin's hotel or AA meeting, then get himself there -- with Kate's mother -- because now, this is where Kate will give birth and their child, if lucky, will enter the NICU.

But when Toby arrives and sees Kevin, he glares at him. Poor Kevin!

[Katy M]

Whatever else Kevin did, he didn't cause Kate to go into premature labor. Kate didn't defy bed rest instructions to go see him. As far as she knew, she was fine.  Kevin didn't force Kate to physically wrest him to the floor to get bottles away from him.   All Kate was going to do was drive him to an AA meeting.  And, then Kevin called an ambulance instead of thinking he'd be OK to drive.  Yes, Kevin shouldn't have been drinking, but he did the most responsible thing he could have under the circumstances.

Based on the previews I had been afraid that Kevin had been drinking and driving with Kate in the car and had gotten in an accident with her.  I was much relieved that wasn't what had happened because I don't think that family could ever have recovered from that.

And, I'm half wondering if Kate's going to die, only because this episode was, by a million points, her most mature time to date.  Kate acted absolutely perfectly throughout the now portion of this episode, which makes me wonder if it was some weird kind of send off.  Could be why we don't see her in the flash forwards. I don't think.  I actually don't watch those, because I don't want to know what's going to happen in the future.

[ShadowFacts]

41 minutes ago, fsuheater said:

Many people in this thread are presuming the commission spot is a full time position. I live in Florida and have done a lot work with city commissions and local government councils. While city official roles vary, the vast majority of local government officials have full time jobs. In many cases, they are practicing attorneys, doctors, etc. I don’t think of a commissioner as a full time position. A mayor, yes. But not a board of officials serving the community. Yes, it would require time out in the community and at events....but most I know have regular jobs in their field (again, some are practicing lawyers, builders, etc) and they simply attend monthly commission meetings, community events and meetings as necessary.

Of course, this is also TV land, so who knows. 😉

According to Ballotpedia, in 2011 Philadelphia council salaries ranged from $117,000 to $148,000.  That sounds like full-time, there are probably many committee meetings, public events, evening and weekend obligations, etc.  I don't see him having time for another job, especially when you factor in his commute.  That was all known to him before he won the election, he is a planner par excellence.  His planning skills possibly failed him insofar as he didn't give much thought to the effects on his daughters until the master schedule was right in his face.  Then it became Beth's problem.  As others have said, the family could live on that income if they moved and downsized.  And Beth's dance dreams don't have to be quashed, there are workarounds. 

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

It isn't just about his commitment.   It has a lot more to do with those individuals who have committed their time and support for him during the election process.   If he had quit that would have affected other people.

If there was the slightest doubt that both he and Beth were in it to win it, then he shouldn't have run in the first place.

I definitely agree that he shouldn't have run in the first place.  But, that's kind of like saying if you go out with some for a few months then you have to marry them because they invested time in the relationship.  That's silly. It's a getting to know you process.  The campaign job would have been over in a few weeks anyway. He could have still paid them for the whole time when he quit.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Katy M

[kili]

Quote

If there was the slightest doubt that both he and Beth were in it to win it, then he shouldn't have run in the first place.

There was doubt from the beginning. He announced that he wanted to run the day that Beth got fired and he promised her he would quit the moment she had any doubts (and then didn't even though she brought up the issue that they need to be there for the kids).

Even without Beth getting fired, he should still have had doubts. It's a long commute from where they live in another state. He was always going to be far from home for much of the time.

Beth's job is three evenings a week. The kids either have to do activities on the two days she's not working or they can hire a college student to help out (since Randall can't seem to compromise his job at all). Beth could also maybe get a part time job during the day when the girls are at school to earn some extra money. She was part-time before Randall decided to quit his job because his company had the audacity to hire somebody in the same field as him. 

If Randall hadn't spent the last three years doing exactly what he wanted when he wanted, I might cut him some more slack. One day, it has to be Beth's turn to have a dream.

[Aliconehead]

16 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I definitely agree that he shouldn't have run in the first place.  But, that's kind of like saying if you go out with some for a few months then you have to marry them because they invested time in the relationship.  That's silly. It's a getting to know you process.  The campaign job would have been over in a few weeks anyway. He could have still paid them for the whole time when he quit.

When I was born my mothers water broke 7 days before labor started and she had me (1974), she was in the hospital the whole time.  It was a 7th Day Adventist hospital and they felt that I would come when I was ready.  With a micro preemie, i think they would want to keep baby in as long as possible, so perhaps that is why.  if it was full term, they would induce nowadays

[3 is enough]

As much as I hate the fact that Randall won the election, having won he can’t just quit now.  

But needing a babysitter that can relate to adopted and LGBT kids?  Are you kidding me? The girls aren’t toddlers.  They just basically need someone to drive them to their after school activities and be in the house with them for a few hours a week.  It isn’t like they are special needs kids. Although I guess being a Pearson is very “special”. 🙄

[OhSarah69]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

Yep.  Here's where Randall went wrong.

1. He should have never run for councilman in a place he doesn't even live.

2. He should have quit the race when Beth asked him to, as he had promised. 

3. He shouldn't have gone on the Uncle Nicky hunt with Kevin. He should have suggested that they write a letter and see if Nicky even wanted to be bothered.  He could help with the letter.  I don't have much of a problem with him leaving when he did because he should have never left in the first place and he theoretically had to get Kate to the airport, who also shouldn't have come in the first place and needed to get home.

4. He and Beth should have gotten together and decided what hours would be feasible for Beth to work before she started making plans and getting excited about something that apparently can't happen now.

5. They should be making plans to move to Philly when the school year is over because it's not right for him not to live in his district. This will also make child care (or at least rides) easier to manage.

6. (out of chrono order) he shouldn't have flown across country when Kate had her egg extraction.  That was unnecessary and costly at a time when his time would have been better spent at home.  On another note, it was good for him to fly across the country now.  More urgent, serious situation, and if Kate were to die he would have a hard time forgiving himself for not being there.  Completely understandable. 

Preach!

Who runs for councilman in a place he/she doesn't live?  I understand his wanting to get involved, but then I think you need to move your life there (not that I think they should move their life there, I'm just saying).

On point 4 above, I love our girl Beth…but she has to own some part of this (not that I liked Randall’s speech to her in the least).  Definitely when she started getting the feels about dancing again, she and Randall needed to do the hard work of figuring out details right then – like, be really specific:  “Ok, so we’ll be on one salary again, and neither of us will be around for the kids as much as we would like; what are we gonna do about it?”.

I'm among those who totally thought that Randall's speech to Beth was going to end in "I'm going to quit the councilman job".  However that would not have been fair to the people who voted for him, either.  Talk about dicking people around.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, Randall is pretty terrible.  With Beth, it's even worse because last week he was all into her pursuing her dreams until he finds out this week that he might have to make a sacrifice.  Now it's suddenly, "Beth you need to quit because my job being on the city council, in a city and state where we don't live, is more important."   

Exactly. He’s totally supportive of his wife pursuing her dreams unless it is inconvenient for him. 

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I disagree.  I totally saw Kate's point about all the pitying glances she would be receiving while at graduation.  I still remember the first family party I attended after my dad passed away.  I received so may awkward glances from everyone.  I was the girl who's dad had died.  People just stare at you from across the room and you feel it all the time.  They avoid you but keep on staring.  It was worse that what Kate would have experienced because these were my dad's nieces and nephews that would not speak nor make eye contact with me.  

But Kate was talking about going to her high school graduation, not a small family gathering. My high school graduation took place in a stadium with thousands of people in the stands waiting their turn to scream, cheer, and blast air horns for their kids. They definitely weren’t using binoculars to single out kids to give pity stares to. My high school boyfriend’s father died by suicide a few months before he graduated and no one in that stadium was elbowing the person sitting next to them and whispering, “OMG that’s the guy whose dad just died!” during graduation. People knew what had happened but they were all too busy celebrating to feel sorry for him. He was just another person in a sea of hundreds of students. Afterward, people just said, “Congratulations!” to him and asked if he was coming to grad night afterward. He didn’t get the cocked head, sad eyes, arm rub, or “Are you okay?” type stuff at graduation that he got at the funeral. 

[tennisgurl]

I kind of forget who all lives near who, because everyone in this show has a teleporter that can get them anywhere they want, but dont Rebecca and Miguel live nearby Randall and his family? Cant they pitch in and watch the kids? Its not like the girls are special needs or are all out control, they dont need a sitter or for Beth to be around 24/7. Especially Deja, who is a teenager who has been pretty responsible for quite awhile now. People leave their kids alone, especially during the day on the weekends, all of the time, its not that big of a deal. Not enough for Beth to quit her brand new job. 

Also, what exactly are Randall's responsibilities now? Can he set his own hours when he doesent have meeting? Does he have an office he goes to as a 9 to 5 gig? It seems like it might make more sense for him to take more of the main parent responsibility, but I have no idea. Have they talked about moving to his district? Really, I would be more sympathetic to him if this was his life long dream or something, but its just something he randomly decided to do, like he has with everything the last year. These two really just need to talk. 

[PepSinger]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I agree. I think Beth was wrong to take a job working evenings during the only hours she's likely to see her kids. They aren't Deja's responsibility and while they are Randall's responsibility, he's earning much more money right now and the family probably couldn't make it financially if he quit.   Having kids is a choice and most parents sacrifice for their kids at some point. Waiting a few more years to teach evening dance classes is not that enormous a sacrifice.  The kids are all going to be teens soon and while some people think that's a good time to start leaving them alone in the evenings there's plenty of evidence that it's, in some ways, the worst time to do that.  It may not be fair of Randall to ask her to "put a pin in it," but at least he seems to be thinking of what's best for the kids. 

If Randall were actually thinking about what’s best for the kids, then he would’ve never run for city councilman in a city that he and his family do not reside. Team Beth.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My high school graduation took place in a stadium with thousands of people in the stands waiting their turn to scream, cheer, and blast air horns for their kids.

Thousand of people at a high school graduation?  Did each graduate have 10 or more guests?