S03.E14: The Graduates

[AnnieHeights]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

What did Randall and Beth thing was going to happen when he ran in the first place?  He won the election.  He is going to have to travel a long distance for his job.  He isn't in a position to all of a sudden stay home for Deja.   For him to resign from office before he is even sworn in would be ridiculous.  If someone has to quit their job, it has to be Beth.  She isn't making much money anyway.

I was shocked at this myself..........The deed is done as far as him winning the election and Beth comes up with this long lost dream after the fact and is pissed because her leaving her new job makes the most sense (again only because Randall had already committed before Beth the Dancer showed up) for their family.  They have 3 active children, none of which can drive.  I love Beth and yes, she should live out her dream at some point but in all honesty they are both being selfish because there are 3 kids to think about.  Someone needs to post a pic of the family spreadsheet......their 'expenses" are laughably low.  A friend of mine texted me a picture of it and they have shelter as $650.00, car as $300.00 and not mention of multiple cross country flights.  Also those who suggested them moving to Philly might upset Deja's stability.  More upheaval.            

[Seelouis]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Thousand of people at a high school graduation?  Did each graduate have 10 or more guests?

My graduating class had just under 600 kids, so if each had only 2 guests that’s over a thousand. 

Topic: team Beth all the way. 

[PRgal]

10 minutes ago, Seelouis said:

My graduating class had just under 600 kids, so if each had only 2 guests that’s over a thousand. 

Topic: team Beth all the way. 

So approximately 2400 kids in the entire school?  That's HUGE compared to mine.  My class had 85-ish people.  The previous year had just under 100 and that was considered "big."  But we're not super-huge, with about 800 or so kids from kindergarten to high school graduation.  I think they've expanded to about 1K now

I'm not surprised that the teachers are suggesting that Deja go directly to high school.  She's CURRENTLY repeating 7th, correct?  That means she'd be age-appropriate if she goes directly to high school.  However, if she has friends in the current grade, I can see why she'd like to stay behind.  It's scary to be the "new kid" again, not knowing anyone.

Edited March 6, 2019 by PRgal

[ElectricBoogaloo]

24 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Thousand of people at a high school graduation?  Did each graduate have 10 or more guests?

16 minutes ago, Seelouis said:

My graduating class had just under 600 kids, so if each had only 2 guests that’s over a thousand. 

My graduating class had 600 people (and we had the smallest class in the four years that I was there). We were each guaranteed ten tickets for graduation. Our stadium held 6000 people in the stands (the graduates were seated on the field so that all the stadium seating was for family and friends) which was why we were limited to a total of ten guests per student. People with smaller families who didn’t use all of their tickets would give their extra tickets to people with larger families.

But yeah, that’s why I was like Kate, you need to chill! Not everyone is going to stare at Girl with Dead Dad because they will be too busy trying to find their own kid! It’s kind of hilarious to think about how I was able to find my family afterward despite the fact that there were thousands of people in the stadium and we didn’t have cell phones or a preplanned meeting place. 

[Blakeston]

And of course Deja has managed to overcome all of her disadvantages in record time to become an A student. Who cares whether that's realistic or not - she's a Pearson! ::groans::

It could have been really interesting to see how Randall and Beth (especially Randall) deal with a daughter who isn't all that academically gifted. Just a normal person trying her best. But I guess that's never going to happen.

[tomsmom]

So you can’t afford a decent babysitter?

A) Isn’t Deja like 14

B) Doesn’t Rebecca live near them?

C) Oh but you CAN afford a last minute plane ticket across the country.

The best part was when Toby called and Kevin said to Kate “Tell him you have a meeting with Soderbergh” Now that was funny!

[Jillybean]

Since all the obvious topics have been covered, I'll just jump in to say I was mildly surprised Kate didn't take Toby's last name (whatever it may be) when they got married. Although of course being a Pearson is the awesomest thing ever, and why wouldn't she want to keep her dad's name? I guess I just saw her being more traditional. But nope, Kate Emily Pearson got her diploma. 

And not for nothing, that was a mighty quick earning of the credits she needed.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Jillybean

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, tomsmom said:

B) Doesn’t Rebecca live near them? 

Rebecca is happy to help out on occasion, but it's not her job to be permanent child care.  One time when my sister was engaged, she told our mom that when she had kids mom could babysit while she was at work. My mom said, "No, I'll help out if you have the occasional childcare snafu."  "But,"  "No."

Does Rebecca still live in Philly?  It's definitely somewhere in Penn.

[saber5055]

I was wondering who owned the car Kate was driving when her water broke because, eww, the owner will want to get rid of that vehicle asap after it's mopped out. Keep the windows rolled down too, because in that hot southern California sun ... pee-you.

I'm also glad Timeless didn't destroy that time-travel machine so Randall could take it across county to get from east coast to west coast in less than five minutes. It's parked somewhere out in that hospital visitor's lot.

[Katy M]

Just now, saber5055 said:

I'm also glad Timeless didn't destroy that time-travel machine so Randall could take it across county to get from east coast to west coast in less than five minutes. It's parked somewhere out in that hospital visitor's lot.

Again, he had 10 hours to get there.  You don't exactly need a time travel machine for that.

[ShadowFacts]

18 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My graduating class had 600 people (and we had the smallest class in the four years that I was there). We were each guaranteed ten tickets for graduation. Our stadium held 6000 people in the stands (the graduates were seated on the field so that all the stadium seating was for family and friends) which was why we were limited to a total of ten guests per student. People with smaller families who didn’t use all of their tickets would give their extra tickets to people with larger families.

But yeah, that’s why I was like Kate, you need to chill! Not everyone is going to stare at Girl with Dead Dad because they will be too busy trying to find their own kid! It’s kind of hilarious to think about how I was able to find my family afterward despite the fact that there were thousands of people in the stadium and we didn’t have cell phones or a preplanned meeting place. 

My husband's graduating class in Chicago had 1500.  That's about double of what I had in my entire high school.  Regardless of how big or small a crowd might be, of course they wouldn't all be feeling sorry for Kate, but that's how adolescents can envision things.  The tendency can be for a bit of egocentrism with a dash of drama.

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

Does Rebecca still live in Philly?  It's definitely somewhere in Penn.

She and Miguel live somewhere fairly close to Randall, as shown a few times including a Christmas episode, when she and Kate had been to a doctor's appointment about weight loss, then to Rebecca's to change clothes to get over to Randall's Christmas Eve.

[PRgal]

15 minutes ago, tomsmom said:

So you can’t afford a decent babysitter?

A) Isn’t Deja like 14

B) Doesn’t Rebecca live near them?

C) Oh but you CAN afford a last minute plane ticket across the country.

The best part was when Toby called and Kevin said to Kate “Tell him you have a meeting with Soderbergh” Now that was funny!

Deja's caseworker might have some sort of requirement that she can't be left without an adult for more than x number of hours  Also, what's the age minimum for kids to be left alone in NJ?  Most places with laws in place tend to be in the 11-14 range, but some places might be older?  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

13 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Since all the obvious topics have been covered, I'll just jump in to say I was mildly surprised Kate didn't take Toby's last name (whatever it may be) when they got married. Although of course being a Pearson is the awesomest thing ever, and why wouldn't she want to keep her dad's name? I guess I just saw her being more traditional. But nope, Kate Emily Pearson got her diploma. 

And not for nothing, that was a mighty quick earning of the credits she needed.

Ha, I half expected Kate to suggest that Toby take her last name so that he could officially become a Pearson. 

To be honest, I couldn’t remember Toby’s last name. I said his first name in my head expecting that his last name would pop up on its own but instead I thought Tob(e)y...Maguire? Toby...Flenderson? I finally gave in and checked IMDB. I’m all for any woman keeping her last name, even non-Pearsons. 

I was cracking up/rolling my eyes when Toby mentioned that Kate was 28 weeks along because all I could think was the timeline: Kate gets pregnant, Kate is told to stop driving around LA to do Adele-o-grams, Toby takes her to community college, Kate finishes the classes she needs, Kate is STILL pregnant. I know that technically it’s doable but let’s be real - it’s the Pearsons! They operate im a universe where silly things like time don’t apply to them. 

[Ohiopirate02]

 My thoughts on Kate's not wanting to go to graduation.   She probably could have powered through the ceremony without a problem, but it's what comes after that would have been rough.  The talking and posing for pictures where she would have to fake happiness.  Kevin would have been well known with his classmates and probably their parents.  She has probably spent the last four years being known as Kevin's sister and not a person in her own right.  That weighs on you over time.  Kate just didn't have it in her to deal with people that day, which is something I completely understand.  She needed the time alone that day to recharge and to watch the old family videos.  She was able to leave the apartment to attend the party later.  

[Jillybean]

16 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I’m all for any woman keeping her last name, even non-Pearsons. 

Me too - I didn't change my name when I got married. I was just mildly surprised Kate didn't, either. 

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

But, she didn't need to be such a pill.  Kevin and Randall were also graduating.   If she wanted to be a wet blanket, she should have just kept it to herself.

She did go to Randall's graduation.  if she didn't want to go she shouldn't have to.  And she did go to the party later.

[qtpye]

19 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Kevin said that Toby was talking to the doctors....which works with me because that was a good Big Three moment. 

Also, thinking about Randall asking Beth to put aside her dreams after he actually had a plot with Deja....boy, your wife WARNED you about galavanting off on your next passion project when your family needed you. What makes you think you have any right to ask your wife to stop what she's doing and expect that she will not live out her dream? Why can't YOU quit? 

My mild annoyance that Beth seemed to be a teacher just like that without a certificate completely disappeared after their final scene.

19 hours ago, Katy M said:

I totally forgot about the Randall and Beth stuff.  OK, first of all, he can't fix Deja's issue because everybody has already seen it.  Having said that, the speech to the teacher was the first speech he's given that's been justified, IMO.  That teacher was completely in the wrong, and it's nice that she took it down and apologized, but the damage is done.

I liked Deja's attitude of not being a story.

Now, to the Randall/Beth stuff.  How old is Deja?  Isn't she like 13 or 14?  Why, pray tell, do they need a babysitter at all?  Unless she's still a foster kid.  Then they probably have crazy rules about that.  But, if she's been adopted, why pray tell, do they need a babysitter at all?  How old is Tessa?  Between the 2 of them, they can easily look after Annie.

But, since for whatever reason they feel they can't leave a perfectly capable teenager alone with a tween and a younger kid, I'm not sure what they should do.  Randall has made a commitment, and Beth should get to do what she wants.   Especially since he's not suggesting she be a stay-at-home mom, but just get a different job.  That's not going to free up all the time the kids are home.  

But, the writers are artificially creating conflict, because, again, those kids are old enough to stay with Deja.  Unless Beth is running an all night dance school.

And, if they don't have enough money to pay a babysitter for a year (I'm assuming that's when Randall's term is over), then maybe Randall shouldn't be flying cross-country every 5 minutes.  A last minute flight to CA probably cost a month worth of babysitting.

19 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I loved that scene at the end of the Big Three, making promises they can't keep. I love Randall showing up and calling himself just "Deja's dad" with no foster attached anymore. I love that he stopped being angry when the teacher started crying and took down the post, because I related to that teacher way too much. I loved that Randall snarked on Kevin/Kate and got snarked back for his relationship with Rebecca - at least they're throwing those jokes around evenly, although Toby could've not thrown the Hemsworths in there. I loved Miguel being a good friend at the graduation, especially since his being there surprised me since they made an excuse for him not being there in the present day - I assumed Jon Huertas had the week off. Toby was a great husband supporting Kate's triumphs. Madison continues to be an annoying but kind and lovable best friend to Kate. A sad Madison at the hospital trying to make things better next week would be appreciated. Solid work from Mandy Moore and I thought Justin Hartley played that moment of reassuring Kate in the car and the guilt when calling Toby really well. 

Randall asking Beth to hold off on her dreams was unfair. He should know better. I'm less convinced than I was previously about them not ending up divorced. I'm deeply worried Kate's gonna die, even though I think that would be their "jump the shark" moment. 

19 hours ago, WednesdayAddams said:

Really Randall? Really? You do nothing but act on impulse and expect Beth to give up her dream? Hell no! Maybe he'll realize he needs to resign while talking to Beth in the hospital waiting room. Don't succumb to his shenanigans, Beth. 

Good God, do you guys remember that Randall originally wanted to adopt a baby? At least Deja is older and fairly independent. Can you imagine if they had a baby and then Randall ran off to do his save the world but only in places where St. William lived foolishness.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, PepSinger said:

If Randall were actually thinking about what’s best for the kids, then he would’ve never run for city councilman in a city that he and his family do not reside. Team Beth.

I totally agree with the part about Randall, but I also believe If Beth were actually thinking about what's best for the kids she never would have considered teaching evening classes.

They both act like all they have to do is pronounce something, "My dream" and voila --  they're entitled to have  it.  Then they look around weeks later and go, 'Oh look, kids.  Where did they come from?"

I do like that there are two sides to this predicament and I can side with, or against, either Randall or Beth.  It makes me understand how such a perfect couple could ever break up.  And it makes me sad because I kind of love that whole family.

[Empress1]

17 hours ago, PRgal said:

Deja's caseworker might have some sort of requirement that she can't be left without an adult for more than x number of hours  Also, what's the age minimum for kids to be left alone in NJ?  Most places with laws in place tend to be in the 11-14 range, but some places might be older?  

A quick Google search tells me there are no laws about it on the books in Jersey. I think Deja is plenty old and mature enough to be left home alone (remember, she's been left home alone plenty before) or even watch Tess and Annie (and really, Tess is at an age where she doesn't need much watching - you could just kind of peek in on her every so often to make sure she's not doing anything she's not supposed to be doing). I could understand why Beth and Randall wouldn't want to put that on her - she's already had to do too much caregiving in her young life. But it's not unusual at all for a 13-year-old to be home alone. I was a full-fledged babysitter when I was 13.

18 hours ago, Katy M said:

Rebecca is happy to help out on occasion, but it's not her job to be permanent child care.  One time when my sister was engaged, she told our mom that when she had kids mom could babysit while she was at work. My mom said, "No, I'll help out if you have the occasional childcare snafu."  "But,"  "No."

I have friends who were shocked that their parents weren't interested in being full-time child care. One set lived too far away but wouldn't have done it anyway, and the other lived nearby but were very active in retirement - they traveled a lot and they were just done with dealing with small children full-time or close to it. They loved their grandkids but a 9-5 daycare situation wasn't happening with them, period. They made that very clear from jump but I think the friends thought they'd change their minds. Narrator: "They did not change their minds."

Rebecca is obviously very involved with her family - but remember, Miguel is her family too, and she has grandkids on that side. Also, shit - she's earned the right to say "No, I can't babysit, I'm taking a class at the Y."

What gets me about Randall and Beth's situation is that they didn't talk about this until now. The time was when Beth said she wanted to teach. That should have sparked a conversation, or a series of conversations - where will you teach? How much can you expect to make? OK, let's do a budget. What kind of hours will you have? What kind of hours will you NEED? I'm going to be away from home x hours a week, what does that mean? Do we have to move? (They should have figured that out when he was running.) If we move, could you teach dance in Philly? (She could.) And so on. They're both just like "Okay!" when it comes to stuff they want to do but they don't think about the practical how's of a situation.

I don't think Beth was wrong to take a job that was nights and weekends - millions of people have kids who work nights and weekends. I just think they should have had way more conversations about everything they wanted to do.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Empress1

[JudyObscure]

When young Kate said she couldn't go  onstage knowing everyone would be whispering that  she didn't have any plans for afterwards, I laughed.  It reminded me of what my father would say to me when I was in high school: "You wouldn't worry so much about what people think of you if you knew how rarely they did."   I did love what Rebecca said to Kate at her present day graduation about how the "16 years late" was just the perfect time for her.

I thought teen-graduation-Manuel looked incredibly handsome.  Rebecca was so lucky to always have him in the background. 

[GodsBeloved]

18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I am thinking more and more that future Beth and Randall are divorced. I just cant imagine why...

One reason I am not yet convinced they are divorced is because Randall has on his wedding ring.

Edited March 6, 2019 by GodsBeloved

[Lady Calypso]

I don't disagree that Beth went from looking for a job to jumping into teaching fairly quickly. I agree that more conversations needed to be had before Beth jumped into teaching...or at least before she figured out her teaching schedule. And yeah, at least Randall was just wondering if Beth would consider quitting her new job to stay home with the kids. Still, why is it ok to him not to break a promise but Beth should quit her job before it even starts? Just like Randall committed to the election and had to follow through, Beth just accepted her new job so why shouldn't she be held to the same standard on following through? 

If it is was just this one event, then hell yeah I'd be putting a lot of blame on Beth as well. But we've seen that Randall has gotten out to live several of his own dreams, even when it was inconvenient to the family. From quitting his job after William's death (by the way, I completely support Randall's decision to quit) to adopting/fostering right away (Beth had to compromise by fostering) to Randall buying that apartment building in William's neighbourhood to him running for office, that was all putting pressure on the family well before Beth decided to take on a couple of classes at night to teach. Being a dance teacher wouldn't take up nearly enough time as Randall's sporadic political schedule. Plus, some households have parents alternating between working during the day and working nights and weekends. It doesn't make Beth a bad person for going for it, especially since she agreed for Randall to run around all of last season. 

It's more that Beth choosing to be a dance teacher is more like bad timing, with Randall ALSO about to start his new career path. Randall's point was that their family needed the entire family together. But Randall's schedule may keep him from his family on nights and weekends. I do want to point out that part of Randall's responsibility as a councilman will be to attend various political events, most of them taking place during the evenings. So Randall's speech about how he wants the whole family to be together won't always work out because HE won't always have a set schedule. He could get called to a political event on a Wednesday evening, for example, which means by Beth quitting her job, she'll be around for the kids but Randall still won't be there.

At this point, as much as I hate it, they'd be better off moving to Philly. It sucks for the kids, but their whole family would at least get more time together, even if both of them have to work at night. There's no other good option for either of them. 

[Pallas]

On 3/6/2019 at 7:48 AM, Empress1 said:

This seems like a conversation they should have had when Beth announced that she wanted to teach.

It does, but I think Deja's reasons for not wanting to leap ahead to high school in the next school year included moments such as having one of her parents meet them at the end of the day. That seems to have gotten Randall re-thinking.

Bethel Park High School averaged 400 students throughout the 90's, so Kate and Kevin's graduating class would have been around 100. That school building has since been razed; Kevin visited a new BPHS  last year.  

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I still believe  that they shouldn't have had kids if they were going to  put their careers, passions, first, ahead of their kids.

So people with busy and important careers shouldn't have kids?  My mom traveled 300 days a year when I was a kid (not her plan when I was born).  It wasn't ideal but I'm really, really, really pleased she did't chose not to have me.   

How a person parents isn't a one way is the right way type scenario and Tessa and Annie have been raised in a two parent home with people who loved them and who dropped everything at the drop of a hat to be with them and have never seemed maladjusted or neglected ever.  

Randal and Beth are making a mess out of this right now but it isn't like Beth's night and weekend classes are really legitimately taking time away from those girls either.  I saw that calendar.  Those girls are at after school activities and  weekend events.  Randall and Beth just aren't going to be the people driving them.  

What these girls will have is the feeling is that their parents are human beings outside of parenthood which is something a lot of children don't realize about their parents.  

And really given that Beth is just starting to teach and apparently Philly city-council persons make a fair living they should sell the house and move to a much smaller home in Philly and a lot of this problem goes away. 

 

[woodstock]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

I have friends who were shocked that their parents weren't interested in being full-time child care. One set lived too far away but wouldn't have done it anyway, and the other lived nearby but were very active in retirement - they traveled a lot and they were just done with dealing with small children full-time or close to it. They loved their grandkids but a 9-5 daycare situation wasn't happening with them, period. They made that very clear from jump but I think the friends thought they'd change their minds. Narrator: "They did not change their minds."

Yep, I have seen this play out in my family on several occasions. I've had to have 'come to Jesus' conversations with family members who thought that just because I'm single (and apparently have no life outside of work) that I'm some sort of on-demand, on-call babysitter or taxi driver. I don't mind helping out occasionally - especially if there's an emergency - but there's a big difference between 'helping out' and providing full-time or even part time child care.

Considering Deja's history with her mom and foster care I'm not sure it's a good idea to add babysitting duties to her plate. Yeah it may not seem like a big deal but to me she's finally settling into the family and a routine; I think Deja needs time to just be a kid and focus on herself.  Another thing to consider is how will Tess and Annie react to Deja being in charge so to speak when Beth and Randall are out? I don't think Annie would care but Tess could be another story. Growing up I was in charge whenever my parents were out but my brothers and I had been around each other forever. The family dynamics here are not exactly the same.

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

What gets me about Randall and Beth's situation is that they didn't talk about this until now. The time was when Beth said she wanted to teach. That should have sparked a conversation, or a series of conversations - where will you teach? How much can you expect to make? OK, let's do a budget. What kind of hours will you have? What kind of hours will you NEED? I'm going to be away from home x hours a week, what does that mean? Do we have to move? (They should have figured that out when he was running.) If we move, could you teach dance in Philly? (She could.) And so on. They're both just like "Okay!" when it comes to stuff they want to do but they don't think about the practical how's of a situation.

God yes! Randall and Beth have got to communicate better. They just make these impulsive decisions and don't consider the fallout.

I loved the rest of the episode especially the Big 3 moments. Rebecca made my heart ache during the scene at Randall's graduation.

Edited March 7, 2019 by woodstock

[stonehaven]

The grief storyline made me weep as echos of that appear in my own life...lost a close friend 2 years ago this time and grief never really goes away...Toby really is like Jack though..and Kevin's storyline made my heart break. Beth and Randall? Annoying..at least Randall but it seems weird that Randall's storyline are almost always independent of each other.

[Empress1]

27 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Those girls are at after school activities and  weekend events.  Randall and Beth just aren't going to be the people driving them.  

And the girls won't die if their parents aren't at every event. I'd bet most of the stuff on that calendar is rehearsals, meetings, practices, etc. not games or performances or whatever. 

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

Thousand of people at a high school graduation?  Did each graduate have 10 or more guests?

There were 908 students in my graduating class in high school.  Presuming that Kate and Kevin attended a large public high school like I did, there could easily be thousands of people in attendance.  However, I also agree that Kate was overly concerned about the reactions she would get.  People really don't pay that much attention to other people's stuff.  But, back when I was her age, I would've felt just like Kate did. At 17-18, most of us haven't been around long enough to realize that we're not the center of the universe and that everyone isn't watching us intently to critique our behavior.  I thought Kate's feelings were pretty typical for a kid her age and I doubt she'd feel the same way about it now.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, woodstock said:

Yep, I have seen this play out in my family on several occasions. I've had to have 'come to Jesus' conversations with family members who thought that just because I'm single (and apparently have no life outside of work) that I'm some sort of on-demand, on-call babysitter or taxi driver. I don't mind helping out occasionally - especially if there's an emergency - but there's a big difference between 'helping out' and providing full-time or even part time child care.

Considering Deja's history with her mom and foster care I'm not sure it's a good idea to add babysitting duties to her plate. Yeah it may not seem like a big deal but to me she's finally settling into the family and a routine; I think Deja needs time to just be a kid and focus on herself.  Another thing to consider is how will Tess and Annie react to Deja being in charge so to speak when Beth and Randall are out? I don't think Annie would care but Tess could be another story. Growing up I was in charge whenever my parents were out but my brothers and I had been around each other forever. The family dynamics here are not exactly the same.

God yes! Randall and Beth have got to communicate better. They just make these impulsive decisions and don't consider the fallout.

I loved the rest of the episode especially the Big 3 moments. Rebecca made my heart ache during the scene at Randall's graduation.

As someone who did provide free childcare to my younger siblings while my parents were at work; I'd like to add my 2 cents.  First, my parents were working evenings because they had 5 kids and they needed the money for basic cost of living stuff. We were not living in an upper class neighborhood, they had only one car, not a luxury car like Randall's and it was purchased used.  So, there was an economic need for them to work and for my older sister and I to be put in charge.  That being said, it was too much and, even now, almost 50 years later, I wish it could've been different.  I think that, if Deja is on board with providing a couple hours of child care no more than perhaps 2 days a week for her sisters (and gets paid for it); then that could work.  But there is no way a kid Deja's age should be expected to babysit younger siblings for prolonged periods or for multiple days in a row.  It is just too stressful and will also, over time, start to negatively affect her relationship with her sisters.  I also don't think Randall needs to fins a sitter with a degree in youth counselling or whatever; a level headed college aged student who likes the kids and who is liked by them is more than adequate.

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I think that, if Deja is on board with providing a couple hours of child care no more than perhaps 2 days a week for her sisters (and gets paid for it); then that could work.  But there is no way a kid Deja's age should be expected to babysit younger siblings for prolonged periods or for multiple days in a row.

They'll just come home and do their homework andthen watch TV or something. Deja shouldn't really have to do much of anything. Besides her homework, which she was going to do anyway.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, woodstock said:

Considering Deja's history with her mom and foster care I'm not sure it's a good idea to add babysitting duties to her plate. Yeah it may not seem like a big deal but to me she's finally settling into the family and a routine; I think Deja needs time to just be a kid and focus on herself.  Another thing to consider is how will Tess and Annie react to Deja being in charge so to speak when Beth and Randall are out? I don't think Annie would care but Tess could be another story. Growing up I was in charge whenever my parents were out but my brothers and I had been around each other forever. The family dynamics here are not exactly the same.

I agree.  It wasn't that long ago that Deja was smashing the car windshield, and also not that long ago that Tess hid in Kevin's car because she didn't like what was going on at home.  They're basically very good kids, but need supervision and parental involvement, and a little bit of them on their own would go a long way. 

It just occurred to me that there is a little echo of Jack not wanting Rebecca to be out singing with her band at night in Randall's wanting Beth to hold off on her teaching, though their kids are younger than the big three were--I think they were already in high school then. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by ShadowFacts

[shoovenbooty]

Someone who knows please fill me in. Maybe this was discussed and I missed it. Kevin mentioned they gave Kate a shot to stop her labor. After her water has already broken, what does that help, exactly? I know it's best to keep the baby in the womb for as many days, weeks, months as possible before it's full-term, but what will a few extra hours matter if she's in labor now and will presumably give birth to a preemie?

I do know a woman whose water broke when she was 20-something weeks along, and they sewed her cervix shut and she had to stay hospitalized until the baby was more mature. She said her body kept making amniotic fluid that would just leak out. She delivered the baby a few weeks later and it was in the NICU for several weeks and survived.

I have never heard of this happening before or since, so I'm sure it's extremely uncommon. Unless they are going to do the same thing and keep Kate from delivering for several more weeks, I don't see the point in stopping her labor for a few hours...?

Or maybe next week we'll find out it was all a mistake and Kate accidentally peed herself (yes, I did that while pregnant. Don't judge 😂)

[kili]

Quote

Unless they are going to do the same thing and keep Kate from delivering for several more weeks, I don't see the point in stopping her labor for a few hours...?

They may be trying to extend Kate's pregnancy for several weeks and it fails. They do get some benefit from stopping labour for hours though. They can administer drugs that can mature the lungs so the baby may have less problems breathing when it is born. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

As someone who did provide free childcare to my younger siblings while my parents were at work; I'd like to add my 2 cents.  First, my parents were working evenings because they had 5 kids and they needed the money for basic cost of living stuff. We were not living in an upper class neighborhood, they had only one car, not a luxury car like Randall's and it was purchased used.  So, there was an economic need for them to work and for my older sister and I to be put in charge.  That being said, it was too much and, even now, almost 50 years later, I wish it could've been different.  I think that, if Deja is on board with providing a couple hours of child care no more than perhaps 2 days a week for her sisters (and gets paid for it); then that could work.  But there is no way a kid Deja's age should be expected to babysit younger siblings for prolonged periods or for multiple days in a row.  It is just too stressful and will also, over time, start to negatively affect her relationship with her sisters.  I also don't think Randall needs to fins a sitter with a degree in youth counselling or whatever; a level headed college aged student who likes the kids and who is liked by them is more than adequate.

And not to mention, Deja might have after school activities herself.  And though Deja can probably get around without an adult, what if the younger ones have different activities on the same day and no other parent can drive each of them because the kids there all go to different schools?

[Blakeston]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

And the girls won't die if their parents aren't at every event.

No, don't you understand? Tess likes girls!!!! She will literally die if she's left in the care of anyone who doesn't have extensive training on how to manage her perilous condition!

Or so the writing on this show has led me to believe. 🙂

[bybrandy]

2 hours ago, shoovenbooty said:

I have never heard of this happening before or since, so I'm sure it's extremely uncommon. Unless they are going to do the same thing and keep Kate from delivering for several more weeks, I don't see the point in stopping her labor for a few hours...?

I think there desire is to keep the baby in there for weeks.  They just don't know if they are going to succeed in that.   But there are also steroids that help the lungs develop that will help the development of the lungs.  There are 2 shots that need to be administered 24 hours apart.  If they can keep her from delivering for 3 days the baby's lungs could be in a whole different shape.   But the survival statistics at 28 weeks are good.  Just longer would be better.   

[theatremouse]

11 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I thought it strange that Miguel was telling Rebecca to go to grief counseling while she was actively sobbing. That was more than crying; that was almost a panic attack. I thought he should have comforted her first and then suggested counseling. There is nothing wrong with that suggestion but it felt like he was trying to "fix" her rather than just let her feel her feelings in that moment.

My read on that scene was that this was not the first time this had happened. The way Miguel reacted suggested to me she'd maybe been breaking down like this a lot. Yes, in that moment, she was having a panic attack, but the way he suggested what he suggested implied to me this was the culmination. IE there were probably previous occasions where he did comfort her, and let her have the moment. But in this one there was an element of "you can't continue like this, you need some other support". That's how I took it.

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

They'll just come home and do their homework andthen watch TV or something. Deja shouldn't really have to do much of anything. Besides her homework, which she was going to do anyway.

Putting Deja in that position at this point is not good for her. She had taken on an adultificated role with her mother before. She cooked. She handled the bills. She was the responsible one. I'm not saying a 14 year old can never babysit her younger sisters now and then,  but it is way way way too soon to say the new normal is Deja is the adult in the house 6+ hours a night 3 days a week (I'm assuming they finish school 3pmish). It doesn't matter that she wouldn't really have to do anything. She spent a huge chunk of her life with the responsibility roles reversed. Deja needs to get to be the kid in the room. For a as long as possible. It's not just that she literally said she likes her routine. They should know she needs that routine and that stability. She could regress all over the place if suddenly she has to be in charge. (Frankly she could regress all over the place anyway.)

[ams1001]

11 hours ago, hula-la said:

As a teacher, there's no way that I would have published a student's writing without their permission. I specifically ask permission of any student to keep an assignment or project to show future students, or if it's a poster-type project that is being posted in the class, I specifically have them put their names on the back, so others can't see it. Students deserve their privacy as much as adults do. I felt a little bad that the teacher cried, but only a tiny, tiny bit.

One of my friends was asked permission for the professor to use a paper of hers as an example for future classes, and it wasn't even anything remotely personal. And it was college, not a vulnerable middle school kid with a troubled childhood. Plus the internet wasn't quite as ubiquitous back then (late 90s).

6 hours ago, Jillybean said:

Toby's last name (whatever it may be)

It's Damon. And yes, I had to look that up. 😉 

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

But there is no way a kid Deja's age should be expected to babysit younger siblings for prolonged periods or for multiple days in a row.  It is just too stressful and will also, over time, start to negatively affect her relationship with her sisters. 

Especially since Deja hasn't grown up as the big sister to these kids and is relatively new to the family. She should't be expected to take on the role of eldest sibling like that. If she had grown up as the eldest sibling it'd be different. If they want to pay her to babysit once in a while that might be okay, but I still think that's kind of iffy given the specific circumstances (especially with Tess; she doesn't really need a babysitter, and if one of them needs to be in charge of Annie, it should probably be Tess). If she wanted to make some money by babysitting, it should probably be some other family's kids.

1 hour ago, shoovenbooty said:

I have never heard of this happening before or since, so I'm sure it's extremely uncommon. Unless they are going to do the same thing and keep Kate from delivering for several more weeks, I don't see the point in stopping her labor for a few hours...?

If they're far enough along, they can give steroids to help the baby's lungs develop (and I assume there are other possible treatments) before delivering early. I know two people who delivered ten weeks early due to dangerously high blood pressure. One had a routine doctor's appointment on a Friday, but her pressure was so high they sent her to the hospital, where they admitted her, gave her steroids for the baby's lungs through Saturday, and did an emergency c-section on Sunday. I got a text that evening with a picture that said "he's here!". (He has some issues which may or may not be related to being premature, but is otherwise fine.) The other was admitted with similar symptoms and they were hoping to get her to 34 weeks but ended up delivering a few days later. (He's totally fine.) Both babies were in the NICU for several weeks and went home right around their actual due dates. I think in his little speech Kevin said she was at 28 weeks? If I heard that right, then she might be far enough along that holding off labor for even a few days might buy enough time to get the baby to a point that he can survive if he has to be delivered.

[buckboard]

Because of her part-time job,  Beth can't cover for Randall when he is away with his Philadelphia job.  Wasn't she looking for full-time work?  She wasn't planning on being a stay at home mom.  What would they have done if she got one of those FT jobs she applied for?

Either they can relocate to Philadelphia -- which would be terribly disruptive -- or they should hire someone who can pick up the girls after school and watch after them for a few hours on days when mom and dad are away fulfilling their dream jobs.  However they decide to resolve the situation, the first thing the parents should do in the future is talk to each other before making decisions that will affect the rest of the family.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

20 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I get that teen Kate was upset and self conscious and mourning Jack's death, but I can guarantee you that no one in the audience would have been thinking any of the things she was worried about ("Look at that poor girl whose dad just died," "Did you hear she isn't going to college?") because all the parents and relatives are just focused on "OMG, my sweet little Bobby Joe is graduating!!" Seriously, sometimes it isn't all about you, Kate.

I expected Kevin to say that people could say the same things about him, except that he not only wasn't going to college on a football scholarship because he had broken his leg (poor Kevin) but he was going off half-cocked to NY to be an actor when he had never even acted in a school play (as far as we know) and he wasn't at all concerned about their reactions. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

12 minutes ago, buckboard said:

Because of her part-time job,  Beth can't cover for Randall when he is away with his Philadelphia job.  Wasn't she looking for full-time work?  She wasn't planning on being a stay at home mom.  What would they have done if she got one of those FT jobs she applied for?

I think there's a difference between getting home at 6, and getting home at 9, when dinner is over and Annie is probably ready for bed. 

[bros402]

So Kate's 28 weeks along - if she gives birth now, that kid is gonna be fine - her doctors should have explained to her that she is at a higher risk of giving birth early - and once you're past 26 weeks, it is much less scary - especially nowadays. I was born at 25 weeks 28 years ago. I had a 3% chance of survival, 15% chance of bleed on the brain - didn't die, no brain bleed (Or maybe it was the reverse for the percentages, I forget). Sure, the preemie is a white male, so the odds aren't all in his favor - but it could be a week earlier, or a whole bunch of other factors.

I wonder if they are gonna have the baby come at the end of the episode, or will they leave it for next season premiere just to screw with people

[debraran]

2 hours ago, bros402 said:

So Kate's 28 weeks along - if she gives birth now, that kid is gonna be fine - her doctors should have explained to her that she is at a higher risk of giving birth early - and once you're past 26 weeks, it is much less scary - especially nowadays. I was born at 25 weeks 28 years ago. I had a 3% chance of survival, 15% chance of bleed on the brain - didn't die, no brain bleed (Or maybe it was the reverse for the percentages, I forget). Sure, the preemie is a white male, so the odds aren't all in his favor - but it could be a week earlier, or a whole bunch of other factors.

I wonder if they are gonna have the baby come at the end of the episode, or will they leave it for next season premiere just to screw with people

Chrissy said in USA interview this in February:  Metz says she roots for her character as much as fans do. Fogelman told her "'it cannot be all terrible awful things for Kate and Toby.' And I was like, 'That’s right!'" Metz joked. And without explicitly confirming the pregnancy will have a happy ending, Metz hinted at one. "It’s not going to be easy, but there is joy at the end of it all."

I might be wrong but I never thought she would have it easy but hey wouldn't have her lose 2 babies. Maybe in real life but even he writers know it's too much sadness for one show. The compromise was not having a woman her age, weight and health issues go 8 months and have a  5lb baby who is fine.  I guess if end result is okay, the angst in between will be fodder for many cliffhanger episodes.

[debraran]

5 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I think there's a difference between getting home at 6, and getting home at 9, when dinner is over and Annie is probably ready for bed. 

I honestly don't remember the calendar but wasn't it 2 days during the week and Saturday? That seems to be what I remember the beginner classes for kids to be.  That is workable, they aren't 3 or 4 years old. The fact that money means something now and didn't when she was unemployed and he was campaigning seems weird to me.

What they would pay a college student is not what they would pay an au pair and it could be a pretty cool character to add on a part time basis.

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I honestly don't remember the calendar but wasn't it 2 days during the week and Saturday? That seems to be what I remember the beginner classes for kids to be.  That is workable, they aren't 3 or 4 years old. The fact that money means something now and didn't when she was unemployed and he was campaigning seems weird to me.

I guess yo are right, that's what I remember too. The girls are old enough to be alone for a few hours. I was alone with two younger bothers when I was 12, we turned out ok. I don't know if it exists in the US but in Canada kids that are 10 and over and whose parents work full time, or odd hours, can enroll them in some classes where they basically learn how to be safe in their homes, sometimes with longer siblings.

I always lived in small towns so maybe it is different in bigger cities, but council members are not a full time job here. All of them have their "regular" jobs. In any case, Randall's selfishness will end the marriage. The excuse that the girls need more time together with the parents is great and it can be done without changing Beth's schedule. To Randall it works like this: hey, I have to solution for this problem because I always know how to work things out and you is the sacrifice, cool? 

He was so great dealing with Deja's worries, and even with that teacher who couldn't even think about a kid's feelings, and then he do this to Beth? 

[Violetgoblin6]

16 hours ago, Katy M said:

Thousand of people at a high school graduation?  Did each graduate have 10 or more guests?

Mine definitely did. We had over 800 graduates and you could get four tickets each. My brother graduated in 2001, 8 years after me, and had over 1000 graduates. Huge suburban Philadelphia high school. 

[Tikichick]

22 hours ago, TwoGrayTabbies said:

In and of itself, it is selfish for Beth to suddenly reveal that notwithstanding her successful career, she’s been pining all along for a career in dance, so she’s going to quit looking for a job in her field and take a low-paying job as a dance instructor.  However, her selfishness is nothing compared to Randall’s quixotic political career.  So Randall’s objection is sheer chutzpah.

Beth and Randall haven't been married this long and have the connection they do for Randall not to have been aware Beth had a longing to dance that never left.  It may be a sudden reveal to the audience, but it certainly would not have been to Randall.   Do we really think a dating Beth and Randall in college wouldn't have ever discussed her past as a dancer, how much she loved it, why she gave it up?  Given Randall's propensity to "fix" other people's lives and the fact he picked up the grandiose gestures mantle from Jack, it's astounding that newly married and working Randall Pearson didn't nudge Beth back into dance then.  

As far as weighing their "selfishness" to compare, I don't see Beth as being selfish.  I see a woman standing up at long last and declaring it's her (long overdue)turn.  William saw it and warned her she needed to speak up and be heard.  It's impossible to be heard by Randall at this point, because he's completely oblivious to anything that isn't the product of what drives him.  That goes back to his childhood and Rebecca's obsession with doing everything possible to make Randall's life perfect.  Deja sees the trap clearly.  Incredible wisdom at her age to discern that you're not going to win every battle in life and it's only possible to savor victories you earn yourself.   I wonder if Deja's attitude will somehow manage to prick Randall's sense of himself and his place in the world?

[3 is enough]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

The fact that money means something now and didn't when she was unemployed and he was campaigning seems weird to me.

Well Beth got a severance package so I assume they were ok for a few months.  Plus ,Randall being Randall they probably had an emergency fund.  But Beth didn't get a job right away so they have put a dent in the reserves? 

Or else the writers have realized that the fans were questioning their finances and decided to address it?

[MrsWitter]

18 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I am betting Kevin is glad he was drunk.  If he wasn't and was forced to drive he would have to sit in her fluid.

We all start out, are nourished and cushioned by that same fluid. It’s not gross. Kevin would have been able to deal. 

Everyone has done an awesome job of breaking down all inconsistencies, etc. in Pearsonland, but I have one minor quibble that nobody has mentioned:

Kate could not have possibly been watching Felicity. I am the same age as the Big Three, graduated high school the same year and LOVED Felicity, especially because it began the fall of my freshman year of college so I very melodramatically felt like it was paralleling my life. The show premiered in September 1998. So, unless King Jack got a bootleg copy of the pilot and rescued it from the fire and left it for Katie Girl to watch after he died, Kate was not watching Felicity in the spring of 1998. 

For the record, despite being the same age as the Big Three, I thankfully do not feel like this show is melodramatically paralleling my life.

Edited March 7, 2019 by MrsWitter

[Biggie B]

1 hour ago, MrsWitter said:

We all start out, are nourished and cushioned by that same fluid. It’s not gross. Kevin would have been able to deal. 

I think sometimes TV portrays the water breaking as some sort of flood gate opening, with a gigantic gush that soaks everything in its path. I can only speak for myself, but my experience was just a small trickle of fluid down the inside of my leg. TMI, I know - but it's like morning sickness - TV shows every pregnant woman vomiting profusely at all times during the early stages of pregnancy. Not so - only around 15% of women experience morning sickness, and it's also hereditary. I never had one moment of it, ever, nor did my mom or my sister with their pregnancies. 

I was severely disappointed with and angry at Randall for telling Beth to "put a pin" in her teaching of dance. Didn't he that very morning give her huge encouragement? I guess he hadn't yet crunched the family finance numbers. But what a horrible thing to do to one's partner. He really wasn't making a suggestion so much as a pronouncement. It was horrible. As everyone's already pointed out, there are various other solutions they could explore. The first step is identifying the problem, and then brainstorming to come up with a strategy that BOTH partners have to buy into and work towards. I find it a huge shame that the writers have turned Randall into someone so unsympathetic and off-putting. At this point, the only iteration of Randall I like is the teen Randall, and even then, it may be only because the young actor is doing such a good job in the role.

I don't think Kate and Toby's baby will die but I think there will be an extended stay in the hospital for the baby, which will no doubt put a huge strain on Kate and Toby's marriage, as well as on each of them individually. Just my guess. It would be too "blah" to have the baby be just fine and dandy and go home quickly - this is a soap opera after all, and what better way to be dramatic than to have a newborn's life hanging in the balance?