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S03.E12: Chidi Sees the Time Knife

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in The Good Place [V]

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Catfi9ht

Catfi9ht

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I have a problem with their idea, though. The truth is, aside from Eleanor, nobody really "improved" after they got to the "Good Place." We already found that out when they wound up doing the judge's test at the end of Season 2. Tahani is still motivated by what other people think of her, Chidi is still paralyzed by indecision, and Jason is still . . . Jason. So I'm not sure why the judge is willing to go along with this experiment since it's based on the principal that they all "improved" once they got to the "Good Place."

Fantastic thought. So much has happened since that episode, I didn't even consider that from a continuity standpoint.

Speaking of "lots of things happening". Boy was this episode jam-packed! Thought welcoming the new four residents would be the season-ender, but we've got at least one more episode coming! 

Not alot of laughs from me this episode, but with all the events, I was still glued to my seat. The Niednagel shoutout and Shawn's delivery of taking credit for "penis bees" were my two highlights. Overall though, I wish they would have split this episode up into more than one and allowed some of the plot points to breathe, mainly Gen coming back from Earth and the new neighborhood from concept to implementation.

Here's all the sight gags from this week's episode. Lots of Parks & Rec shoutouts! https://tv.avclub.com/the-good-place-annotated-chidi-sees-the-time-knife-1831853727

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BobH

BobH

(edited)

Rewatching, just noticed in the background on the bridge that Trevor is still floating there from when the Judge tossed him earlier this season.

Also noticed that Tahani completely vanishes in the second half of the episode. I don't think she appears once after they move to the Medium Place. 

Edited by BobH
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Noneofyourbusiness

Noneofyourbusiness

17 hours ago, Samsnee said:

Also, why is there a fake bad Michael? I think I missed that line. 

Shawn had a Michael suit made for demons to wear while torturing the core four if the experiment fails ("R&D said it couldn't be done, so I made it out of them."). Vicky was the one wearing it on the Skype call.

Michael said his friends will know it's not him torturing them because he'll prepare them in advance, and Shawn said they'll erase the memory of him telling them.

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iMonrey

iMonrey

Quote

The Niednagel shoutout and Shawn's delivery of taking credit for "penis bees" were my two highlights.

I don't listen to the Podcast so I had no idea "Niednagel" was a person or inside joke. I did think the whole bit was really funny though, with everyone yelling at Tahani not to touch it - even after it looked like a scarf. And yeah I loved the bit where Michael is trying to taunt Shawn about his lack of originality and suggests "penis bees" and you see Shawn surreptitiously writing that down. LOL.

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Mockingbird

Mockingbird

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

"Possession of an un-fried vegetable is a felony in Jacksonville." Actually. :-)

It does my heart good to know that Shakespeare is in The Bad Place being tortured for all eternity. God knows he's been torturing school children for just as long.

This episode was great and had so many great lines - I also loved the visual of Janet "giving birth" - just standing there grunting like she was pushing a baby out.

I have a problem with their idea, though. The truth is, aside from Eleanor, nobody really "improved" after they got to the "Good Place." We already found that out when they wound up doing the judge's test at the end of Season 2. Tahani is still motivated by what other people think of her, Chidi is still paralyzed by indecision, and Jason is still . . . Jason. So I'm not sure why the judge is willing to go along with this experiment since it's based on the principal that they all "improved" once they got to the "Good Place."

I think they all improved quite a bit, even if Eleanor was the only one to actually pass her test. (Which would make her the only person to earn a spot in the Good Place in over 500 years...) In that episode, Chidi’s indecision sprang from the concern that choosing the wrong hat would damn his friends to hell; we saw him be SUPER decisive when it came to laying one on Eleanor. Tahani did open one door, but then she forgave her parents, moved on, and was later able to help Kamilah do the same. Jason...well, if Jason isn’t actually some Good Place operative sent to keep everyone safe and on track, he’s shown very little growth. And Michael has made more progress than anyone, which shows that humans aren’t the only redeemable beings in the universe. 

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Affogato

Affogato

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

I have a problem with their idea, though. The truth is, aside from Eleanor, nobody really "improved" after they got to the "Good Place." We already found that out when they wound up doing the judge's test at the end of Season 2. Tahani is still motivated by what other people think of her, Chidi is still paralyzed by indecision, and Jason is still . . . Jason. So I'm not sure why the judge is willing to go along with this experiment since it's based on the principal that they all "improved" once they got to the "Good Place."

I think they all improved. Tahani has been able to understand her family dynamics, embrace her sister, not compete with janet. Chidi has learned to think of eleanors happiness over his own and has become more decisive. Jason clearly has become thoughtful, even if he doesnt show it much.  Michael has become a good friend. Janet has evolved. And more. 

And they all learned to support each other, they are less selfish entirely. 

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Guest

Guest

(edited)
37 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

I think they all improved quite a bit, even if Eleanor was the only one to actually pass her test. (Which would make her the only person to earn a spot in the Good Place in over 500 years...) In that episode, Chidi’s indecision sprang from the concern that choosing the wrong hat would damn his friends to hell; we saw him be SUPER decisive when it came to laying one on Eleanor. Tahani did open one door, but then she forgave her parents, moved on, and was later able to help Kamilah do the same. Jason...well, if Jason isn’t actually some Good Place operative sent to keep everyone safe and on track, he’s shown very little growth. And Michael has made more progress than anyone, which shows that humans aren’t the only redeemable beings in the universe. 

I think Jason has grown. He may not be a smarter person but he is a better person. When he was put back on earth he decided to give up stealing and try to make something of himself in his own absurd way. Like the others he did backslide but he was the only one of the humans who decided to change again without Michael’s intervention. He turned down the offer to have his own dance crew because he realized there was more to life. 

Edited by Guest
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Zanne

Zanne

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Penis bees.

I am so curious as to what this entails. Are they bees with penises? Are they bees that make hives in penises? Are they tiny, flying penises? So. Many. Questions.

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ParadoxLost

ParadoxLost

9 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Was watching the show on a delay so I was able to rewind the joke a couple times l.  It was hilarious.   Eating at a fast food place means you hate gay people....

Is the food worth going to the bad place for? 

Based on the fact that they have had to develop a drive thru that wraps around the building two deep, staffed by multiple outdoor order takers and people standing outside the window to hand off food to cars faster and that line is still backed up at 8PM at night, I'm going to say apparently it is.

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bros402

bros402

18 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I meant to ask about when Pillboi was present in Janet's void.  Does that mean he was dead?  Can live people be brought to her void?  was he a simulacrum of Pillboi??

I believe it was a simulacrum

5 hours ago, Zanne said:

I am so curious as to what this entails. Are they bees with penises? Are they bees that make hives in penises? Are they tiny, flying penises? So. Many. Questions.

SAME. Maybe they are bees, but with penises instead of stingers?

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Affogato

Affogato

(edited)
10 hours ago, Zanne said:

I am so curious as to what this entails. Are they bees with penises? Are they bees that make hives in penises? Are they tiny, flying penises? So. Many. Questions.

They could be adorable if tiny. Given it is hell it is hard to see them as worse than bees with teeth.  I wouldn’t eat the honey. 

Edited by Affogato
Typo
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chaifan

chaifan

If the simulated Good Place is built in the Medium Place, does this mean that Mindy will be able to live life as if it's the Good Place, at least for the duration of the experiment?  Will her beer be cold?  Will she have more than one video to watch?  Will she be able to wear clothes without giant shoulder pads? 

I'm torn on the predictions above that Simone will be one of the new 4  - part of me wants Simone back, but part of me doesn't want a focus on another love triangle.  I think it would be better if Chidi/Eleanor is impeded by Eleanor having to take on the role of Michael.  (I just caught Killing Eve on Hulu and was so happy when Simone popped up there!)  I do love the idea of Kamilah being one of the new 4, though. 

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Sharna Pax

Sharna Pax

I've been a bit lukewarm on this season as a whole, but I loved this episode. Shawn torturing Shakespeare, "possession of an unfried vegetable is a felony in Jacksonville," the whole chicken sandwich thing - it's all gold. Not crazy about the return of Derek! but I am really happy to be back in the fake Good Place.

The idea of our four being tortured by "Michael" for eternity, and never knowing it's not really Michael, is genuinely incredibly horrifying. No wonder Michael collapses under it. But watching that scene, I had a minor epiphany about why I love The Good Place so much. You know how most shows with a supernatural element have a body-swap episode, in which someone, usually a bad person, takes possession of the main character's body and goes around doing stupid, cruel, and/or felonious things with it? It's usually played at least partly for laughs, but I have a really hard time watching that sort of thing, because all I can focus on is that people are being deceived or hurt by someone they think they can trust. And here, finally, is a show that not only doesn't use that kind of deception as a source of humor, but also shares my sense of how deeply upsetting it is. I think that says a lot about the fundamental sense of decency underpinning the show.

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Noneofyourbusiness

Noneofyourbusiness

7 hours ago, chaifan said:

If the simulated Good Place is built in the Medium Place, does this mean that Mindy will be able to live life as if it's the Good Place, at least for the duration of the experiment? 

I'd imagine the rules prevent her from going into the neighborhood in her backyard. We might see her breaking them, though.

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SmithW6079

SmithW6079

On 1/18/2019 at 12:16 AM, Mockingbird said:

I know that I shouldn’t have been so delighted to see Shawn. But I was absolutely delighted to see Shawn. 

Plus Marc Evan Jackson is hot. 

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

Maybe they're penises that hum.

I think you have that backwards. 😉

Janet was surprised about the reset button in Mindy's backyard, and that she had reset Derek a few hundred times. I'd lay money that that little throwaway line will come back with consequences later on.

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theatremouse

theatremouse

On 1/17/2019 at 8:12 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

How can Derek help Janet make people more quickly?

Roughly analogous to adding more CPU?

1 hour ago, SmithW6079 said:

Janet was surprised about the reset button in Mindy's backyard, and that she had reset Derek a few hundred times. 

I thought he said a significantly larger number than that,but now I'm blanking on whether it was hundreds of thousands or in the millions. But probably the whole "all the reboots made this Janet even more" whatever she is, is exactly what's happened to Derek also. Except I think he's been rebooted way more than she was.

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BoogieBurns

BoogieBurns

30 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

I thought he said a significantly larger number than that,but now I'm blanking on whether it was hundreds of thousands or in the millions. But probably the whole "all the reboots made this Janet enough more" whatever she is, is exactly what's happened to Derek also. Except I think he's been rebooted way more than she was.

Half a million reboots. Janet has just over 800. Derek is more advanced, but his brain is wrong, so maybe he needed a million reboots to be a full on Janet. 

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marinw

marinw

2 hours ago, Sharna Pax said:

"Oh, that's the time-knife, we've all seen it." Poor Chidi.

iI Chidi wasn’t already dead, his overstuffed brain would have exploded.

Holly Shirt, the Tenth Dimension of IHOP was trippy. The writers have been reading up on theoretical physics.

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pootlus

pootlus

On 18/01/2019 at 3:06 PM, emcmac87 said:

But I’m thinking somehow, Eleanor ends up taking Michael’s place at the last second because of his panic attack.

I'm thinking this too, given her "oh shirt" expression at the end.

On 18/01/2019 at 10:42 PM, cambridgeguy said:

I don't think Simone was as "bad" as our 4 heroes but who knows what she's been up to since we last saw her.  I don't know if it would send the right message if her life was all downhill after she was dumped by Chidi but that would heap a significant amount of guilt on him.

Shawn's goal is to make the experiment fail, so he's looking to cause as much disruption as possible within the Judge's rules, hence the idea of Vicky in the Michael suit torturing the gang to put the heebie-jeebies into Michael.  I'd say bringing Simone in to possibly upset the Eleanor/Chidi dynamic (Chidi's guilt over dumping her and Eleanor's attraction to her) could achieve that in the same way that bringing Kamilah in could cause conflict for Tahani even though they theoretically made peace with each other.  I don't think Shawn has necessarily selected the worst people he's allowed to get away with.

Loved that Jason was the one who jumped in and explained how life was so complicated on Earth now.  That and his sweetness with Janet and hurt/confusion over newly-suave Derek (olive martini excepted) made him the MVP of the episode for me.

If they're building out the back of Mindy's place, I wonder if Mindy will be able to interact with the new residents?  That could add another dimension of chaos and work in Shawn's favour.  No wonder poor Michael is a nervous wreck.

Brilliant episode, and setting up really well for the Season finale.

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DrSpaceman73

DrSpaceman73

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 9:24 PM, Zanne said:

I am so curious as to what this entails. Are they bees with penises? Are they bees that make hives in penises? Are they tiny, flying penises? So. Many. Questions.

Makes me think of Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia when they were trying to figure out what Charlie meant by "Wormhat"

They were all wrong. 

I also assume Eleanor will take over for Michael

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marinw

marinw

I just thought of something: No one gets into the Good Place because life on Earth is too complicated to make good choices. But we are the ones who MAKE life complicated. By the cold logic of accounting, we are therefore collectively responsible for the world we find ourselves in.

Shirt, this show is deep. 

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Blakeston

Blakeston

On 1/18/2019 at 12:13 PM, BoogieBurns said:

The good she did happened after she died, well, the effects happened after her death. She didn't have an opportunity to screw up after starting the charity because she literally died. 

But the effects of the charity factored into where she ended up - if they hadn't, she would have gone straight to the Bad Place.

The only way Mindy being in the Medium Place makes any sense is if she accomplished far more good than anyone else in the past 500 years did. There have been people who saved millions of lives, and who were also good to others in their daily lives, and they still went to the Bad Place - so her idea must have left all the other great ideas from the past 500-something years in the dust.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

Mindy St. Claire!  So glad that we finally got to see her again.  And Derek too!

Not surprised The Judge changed her mind after spending a mere few moments (or however long it was on Earth time) on the planet.  No amount of NCIS episodes would be enough to counteract all that craziness!  Not sure what to make of Michael's new plan though.  Judging from the ending, I'm going to guess Eleanor will be forced to take on the "architect" role, which will cause some form of craziness.  And I suspect that at least one of the four "guests" is going to be someone connected to the lead characters.  Simone and Tahani's sister are definitely possibilities.  Or maybe poor Larry Hemsworth!

Jason continues to have moments of brilliance from time to time!  And he wants to make a go with Janet, only to see her be kind of interested in Somewhat Smarter Derek.  Aww!  Also, it's good to know that non-fried vegetables is a felony in Jacksonville!

Chidi's reactions to the IHOP and time-knife were everything.  William Jackson Harper has really been owning this season.

Shawn continues to be the best damn demon in the universe!  As usual, Marc Evan Jackson can make anything laugh out loud hilarious.  Unleash the Vicki in a Michael skin-suit and penis bees, Shawn!

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questionfear

questionfear

On 1/20/2019 at 6:41 PM, Blakeston said:

But the effects of the charity factored into where she ended up - if they hadn't, she would have gone straight to the Bad Place.

The only way Mindy being in the Medium Place makes any sense is if she accomplished far more good than anyone else in the past 500 years did. There have been people who saved millions of lives, and who were also good to others in their daily lives, and they still went to the Bad Place - so her idea must have left all the other great ideas from the past 500-something years in the dust.

I think it's more that Mindy's last-minute point influx meant she went before the judge. It's like she ended up with a tie game and they had to go into overtime. The medium place didn't automatically spring up for her, my guess is that she was tested much like Eleanor, Chidi, Tahani and Jason. The end result was a medium place. Mindy isn't the best person in 500 years any more than Eleanor is-they just made a decision about Mindy OUTSIDE the point system so the ripple effects hurting everyone else weren't as much of a factor in Mindy's fate. 

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Portia

Portia

(edited)
On 1/18/2019 at 11:21 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Was watching the show on a delay so I was able to rewind the joke a couple times l.  It was hilarious.   Eating at a fast food place means you hate gay people....

Is the food worth going to the bad place for? 

In my opinion . . . yes. Totally worth it. Them Chik-Fil-A sammiches is goooood. 

I'm seriously considering adopting a personal offset program with regard to The Devil's Chicken Joint.  If I break down and spend any money on one of their delicious sammiches, I must make a donation of equal or greater amount to a worthy and moral cause.

Edited by Portia
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Dowel Jones

Dowel Jones

Perhaps a market based approach, such as cap and trade, would be more efficient.  People with an excess of good points could advertise them for sale to the rest of us reprobates.  Certain pharmaceutical CEO's  and entertainment executives would be ineligible, of course.

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Chas411

Chas411

Unpopular opinion - I don’t like Eleonor ans Chidi together. I loved the idea and build up but now it’s official I’m just meh. I feel like I’m watching two really good friends who got carried away in thinking they were meant to be just because of limited options and now they’re together they’ve realised the chemistry isn’t really there.

UO I know..

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RainbowBrite

RainbowBrite

(edited)
15 hours ago, Chas411 said:

Unpopular opinion - I don’t like Eleonor ans Chidi together. I loved the idea and build up but now it’s official I’m just meh. I feel like I’m watching two really good friends who got carried away in thinking they were meant to be just because of limited options and now they’re together they’ve realised the chemistry isn’t really there.

UO I know..

I agree. I also feel that Kristen Bell has great ~general chemistry~ with almost everyone on screen with her, but I never feel any real heat coming from her in a romantic sense (not just in TGP but Veronica Mars, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, etc.).

Edited by RainbowBrite
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Chas411

Chas411

1 hour ago, RainbowBrite said:

I agree. I also feel that Kristen Bell has great ~general chemistry~ with almost everyone on screen with her, but I never feel any real heat coming from her in a romantic sense (not just in TGP but Veronica Mars, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, etc.).

I think for me I just love the friendships. He Eleanor/Chidi angle just seems like the obvious leading girl/guy romance all tv shows feel they need and not that organic.

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aradia22

aradia22

That story about Big Noodle was more like the Jason we first met when he was pretending to be a monk before they made him too stupid to function.

Derek has been going through his own resets! Amazing.

I still feel like Eleanor and Chidi have more friend energy than romantic chemistry. Whenever the actors have to be romantic and they aren't just kissing they look so distant to me.

Like, of course I like Nice Michael. But I've had enough of the other demons dunking on him. Just because he's changing, it doesn't mean that he can never have a comeback and always gets psyched out.

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