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S03.E12: Chidi Sees the Time Knife

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Too many things to say. Oh good place, how do I love thee?

But did they bring a train load of cocaine for mindy?

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Maximum Derek! Loved seeing Mantzoukas return. I hope tonight's set-up means we get a few more weeks of the new and improved Derek.

I'm wondering if Shawn picked a mailman as one of the four new humans to try and drive a wedge between Eleanor and Chidi. I could totally see all of the new humans being chosen to specifically drive our cockroaches crazy.

The Niednagel name was cute. For those who don't listen to the podcast, Niednagel does special effects for the show.

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Much better than last week’s. 

 

But I don’t see how recreating Michael’s neighborhood would work again if the variables aren’t the same. Meaning the fake townspeople aren’t trying to torture them, nor is Michael. And it sounded like they didn’t know yet if the 4 chosen would know if they were supposed to be in the Good Place or not like Ellen did when she thought it was a mix-up. And if the four are staying in the same neighborhood, isn’t that an unfair advantage?

 

Also, why is there a fake bad Michael? I think I missed that line. 

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Eleanor wants to discuss philosophy and Chidi wants to have sex. I love how they've influenced each other. They were so cute together this episode.

10 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I'm wondering if Shawn picked a mailman as one of the four new humans to try and drive a wedge between Eleanor and Chidi. I could totally see all of the new humans being chosen to specifically drive our cockroaches crazy.

Five bucks says Tahani's sister will be one of the humans.

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Eleanor, hug that poor, tortured, reformed demon! Although, I would love to see more of Ted Danson playing Vicki playing Michael. 

I shrieked in delight at the Niednagel. And I love how the show didn't mess around with needing to win over the Judge. 

Looking forward to seeing Eleanor taking the reigns in the neighborhood in the next episode (assumedly, since Michael is out of commission), but I hate that it's the season finale. 

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Can this show possibly get any better? I just loved this one. I didn't know literally from minute to minute what would happen next, or even what dimension they'd be in. 

And I love the title, Chidi Sees the Time-Knife. Don't ask me why. It's just wildly random and funny and mysterious, just like this show. 

Quote

For those who don't listen to the podcast, Niednagel does special effects for the show.

So is Niednagel a person? 

Edited by Melina22
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3 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Can this show possibly get any better? I just loved this one. I didn't know literally from minute to minute what would happen next, or even what dimension they'd be in. 

And I love the title, Chidi Sees the Time-Knife. Don't ask me why. It's just wildly random and funny and mysterious, just like this show. 

So is Niednagel a person? 

Yep! David Niednagel (yes, I had to google the spelling). The cast also uses his name as shorthand for visual effects.  Example: Did Kristen really throw the lamp or was it Niednagled?

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16 minutes ago, Samsnee said:

Much better than last week’s. 

 

But I don’t see how recreating Michael’s neighborhood would work again if the variables aren’t the same. Meaning the fake townspeople aren’t trying to torture them, nor is Michael. And it sounded like they didn’t know yet if the 4 chosen would know if they were supposed to be in the Good Place or not like Ellen did when she thought it was a mix-up. And if the four are staying in the same neighborhood, isn’t that an unfair advantage?

 

Also, why is there a fake bad Michael? I think I missed that line. 

Shawn is trying to get into Michaels’ head so he told him what will happen WHEN his experiment fails. Not only will his four human friends be tortured for all eternity, but they will think HE is the one doing it. And Shawn will erase their memories if Michael tells them about the plan. That’s why Michael is so upset. He can’t beat the thought of his humans thinking he has betrayed them. ((Sob))

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Thanks. I thought the fake Michael was going to take the real ones place during the experiment. 

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26 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Five bucks says Tahani's sister will be one of the humans.

He's definitely going to include someone that the cast already knows. (Maybe DonkeyDoug as even Jason gave up on him).

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I'm pretty sure "Neighbourhood 2.0" is going to end up being a very temporary thing. First season finale we started off thinking they were in the Good Place and Shawn was a judge, completely flipping reality right in the middle. Second season finale we started with them in the Judge's chambers waiting for a decision on Good, Bad or Medium Place and quickly wound up back on Earth.  So wherever we'll be 167 hours from now, I'm almost sure it won't be close to where we'll be 166 1/2 hours from now.

I'm not going to pretend to be able to guess, but my money is on something involving the time knife. Basic storytelling, you don't introduce a time knife in episode 38 if it's not going to cut something in episode 39...

Edited by BobH
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So, I might be totally off, this show always throws curveballs. But I’m thinking somehow, Eleanor ends up taking Michael’s place at the last second because of his panic attack. And then Michael will have to pretend to be a part of the neighborhood. And Eleanor and Chidi will have a curveball thrown in since the leader shouldn’t be dating a resident of the neighborhood. 

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"It's illegal to have an un-fried vegetable in Florida." lol I will never tire of Florida snark. But Jason actually made a great point, that it's hard to do extensive research on a tomato when you have to worry about bills and rent and taking care of elderly family members while working three jobs. Even the un-fried veggies being illegal thing is an example, albeit an exaggerated one, of how where people are born often limits the options they have.

I like how the fake residents are Janet's "children" and it's nice to see the old neighborhood set again. I suspect others are right, and at least one of the four humans will be someone we've seen before. Since time is Jeremy Bearimy, it really could be anyone.

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23 minutes ago, BobH said:

I'm not going to pretend to be able to guess, but my money is on something involving the time knife. Basic storytelling, you don't introduce a time knife in episode 38 if it's not going to cut something in episode 39...

Chekov's Time Knife?

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I don’t think Derek’s people are going to work out so well. His “drinks” showed some real issues. 

 

Also, is Mindy going to be interfering? At least Janet can get her some more cocaine. 

Edited by Cerulean · Reason: Forgot about Mindy
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So how exactly does never-dead-until-now Eleanor know about Mindy and the Medium Place?

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Once again, WJH gets the MVP for his reactions both before and after he sees Chekov's Time Knife (tm Cerulean with an assist from BOBH). 

JM often goes too far in his characters (on The League and Brooklyn Nine-Nine) but he was good in this episode. I've, for the most part, enjoyed Derek, 

Poor Janet, having to give birth to 152 people. 

Can Tahani touch her neck again, or is the Niednagel still around in some form? 

I don't know how I feel about sentimental Eleanor, but I'm definitely looking forward to her either assisting or actually running the new Good Place. 

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7 minutes ago, jmonique said:

So how exactly does never-dead-until-now Eleanor know about Mindy and the Medium Place?

Michael showed Eleanor her memories?

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6 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Michael showed Eleanor her memories?

OHHHH. I forgot the part about him showing her not just how they fell in love but also running away to Mindy's. Thanks!

My only other thought was I really enjoy Marc Evan Jackson's obvious love for his role. "Bye bitch!"

Everything else felt like a filler episode to get them back into the pseudo-Good Place. I find the idea of them now leading a variation on torture for the new humans to be an interesting setup for future philosophy discussions and dilemmas.

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7 minutes ago, jmonique said:

OHHHH. I forgot the part about him showing her not just how they fell in love but also running away to Mindy's. Thanks!

My only other thought was I really enjoy Marc Evan Jackson's obvious love for his role. "Bye bitch!"

Everything else felt like a filler episode to get them back into the pseudo-Good Place. I find the idea of them now leading a variation on torture for the new humans to be an interesting setup for future philosophy discussions and dilemmas.

I know that I shouldn’t have been so delighted to see Shawn. But I was absolutely delighted to see Shawn. 

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I’ve liked this season but I am so happy to have “the good place” back. I have missed it and all the other characters from the afterlife. 

I am also really excited to see who has been cast for the new humans. The writers do such an amazing job developing the characters that this should be fun. 

2 hours ago, bettername2come said:

 

Five bucks says Tahani's sister will be one of the humans.

 

2 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

He's definitely going to include someone that the cast already knows. (Maybe DonkeyDoug as even Jason gave up on him).

I wouldn’t be surprised is one of the humans is Simone. 

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Our four new cockroaches: This guy (a snarky mailman), Simone, Pillboi, and Camilla! Or maybe Eleanor's father?

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3 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Maximum Derek! Loved seeing Mantzoukas return. I hope tonight's set-up means we get a few more weeks of the new and improved Derek.

That was an unexpected twist. I'm now rooting for him too, because I just never saw Jason and Janet as a good couple. She and super-rebooted Derek might be, although there's something odd about him still.

2 hours ago, BobH said:

I'm not going to pretend to be able to guess, but my money is on something involving the time knife. Basic storytelling, you don't introduce a time knife in episode 38 if it's not going to cut something in episode 39...

If any show would drop in something wacky just for the heck of it, it'd be this one. And there was a lot of stuff here that's more important to come back to, like Derek's presence, whether all the created people work as intended, what Sean has set up for them, etc. That said, this show also loves to go back to stuff that seemed unimportant.

I agree they can't keep this neighborhood going for long, if only because the cast is going to get unwieldy if we need to get to know a bunch of new characters while continuing our interest in the mains.

I side with those who think Simone will come back. She disappeared abruptly, was namedropped this episode unnecessarily, would certainly shake up Eleanor + Chidi's currently comfortable position, and eases the problem I just mentioned by being a character we already know. The only issue is that she has to have died - which Jeremy Bearimy can answer, but not without raising the issue of how old she was. Bringing in a 70 year old Simone from the year 2060 would be a little too wild even for The Good Place. 

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this episode was so good.

I think Simone being in the neighborhood would be very interesting - maybe she ended up dying in a random accident like anyone could.

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This episode was much better than the last. I’m not sure what it says that I’m enjoying the overall storyline and story direction but not the individual stories themselves. I’m not really a fan of the Eleanor-Chidi relationship I think they relate much better as friends. I don’t buy Janet and Jason either, Jason has no reason to all of a sudden be intonations janet now. I also don’t like that both Tahani and Jason have become caricatures of their season 1 characters. Season 1 Jason was a dope, but he managed to be able to use complex DJ equipment, sold enough fake drugs to kids to not starve and managed to pose as a believeable Buddhist monk and not say a word for the first part of their time in the good place. Season 3 Jason is just too stupid to function and just not likeable as a character to me. 

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8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

This show moves so fast, it gives me whiplash! In the best kind of way! Love that the judge took five seconds on Earth to realize that humans have it super hard, love the new idea to make a new neighborhood in the Medium Place to try the experiment again, love Chidi and Eleanor switching places (he wants to get down, she wants to talk philosophy!), love seeing new and improved Derrick, there is just so much good in every episode. 

All of this seems to point to an end state where they have neighborhoods that act as a purgatory that vets people who didn't get into the Good Place to see if they should be sent to the Good Place or the Bad Place if unintended consequences are removed.

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4 hours ago, Amarsir said:

I side with those who think Simone will come back. She disappeared abruptly, was namedropped this episode unnecessarily, would certainly shake up Eleanor + Chidi's currently comfortable position, and eases the problem I just mentioned by being a character we already know. The only issue is that she has to have died - which Jeremy Bearimy can answer, but not without raising the issue of how old she was. Bringing in a 70 year old Simone from the year 2060 would be a little too wild even for The Good Place. 

I don't think Simone was as "bad" as our 4 heroes but who knows what she's been up to since we last saw her.  I don't know if it would send the right message if her life was all downhill after she was dumped by Chidi but that would heap a significant amount of guilt on him.

The Judge must have a thing for mailmen too since she wasn't nearly as interested in Chidi the first time she saw him.

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Since we already have a love triangle between Derek Jason and Janet I am certain one of the new people will have a direct connection to Tahani Eleanor or Chidi.

i love that the show can reinvent itself in such a seemless way.  Of course they are building their new neighborhood in  Mindy’s back yard because why not?  And of course Michael who use to enjoy all this has a Chidi level breakdown right at go time.

This show is so much fun

Edited by Chaos Theory
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9 hours ago, Samsnee said:

Thanks. I thought the fake Michael was going to take the real ones place during the experiment. 

I will be shocked if he doesn’t,  especially with Michael afraid to do something and ruin the outcome and lose his friends. It will provide an opportunity. 

9 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

How can Derek help Janet make people more quickly?

Heh. 

Sorry. By some act of intimacy Jason can’t participate in or understand.  I guess Derek is one of Janet’s kind, since he gets more advanced with every reboot/upgrade. 

This is really going to test the bonds they’ve formed. 

Edited by Affogato
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On 1/18/2019 at 1:37 AM, tennisgurl said:

Our four new cockroaches: This guy (a snarky mailman), Simone, Pillboi, and Camilla! Or maybe Eleanor's father?

I meant to ask about when Pillboi was present in Janet's void: does that mean he was dead?  Can live people be brought to her void?  Was he a simulacrum of Pillboi??

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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Do we know how Mindy ended up in the medium place? 

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

All of this seems to point to an end state where they have neighborhoods that act as a purgatory that vets people who didn't get into the Good Place to see if they should be sent to the Good Place or the Bad Place if unintended consequences are removed.

Maybe

Like purgatory, but with testing to further evaluate people to go to the good or bad place

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21 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Do we know how Mindy ended up in the medium place?

She was a really bad lawyer?  I think but then got really high and decided to give all her money to charity but before she could do that...died.  So you can ponder the good things attempted but no unintended consequences.  It’s a big quandary of what if’s.

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3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I don't think Simone was as "bad" as our 4 heroes but who knows what she's been up to since we last saw her.  I don't know if it would send the right message if her life was all downhill after she was dumped by Chidi but that would heap a significant amount of guilt on him.

Since no one had gotten into the Good Place since the 1500's. Simone was headed to the bad place anyway. I can see the the demons sending her there to mess with them. 

Shouldn't they have the demons there to torture the humans to recreate the process? Are the humans and Janet babies going to be doing that? 

It should be fun seeing Eleanor take the Michael role and show people around the good place. 

Edited by Sakura12
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2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Do we know how Mindy ended up in the medium place? 

Maybe

Like purgatory, but with testing to further evaluate people to go to the good or bad place

Mindy was a greedy lawyer on earth, but the night before she died, she came up with plans for a global foundation that would help people all over the world. Then she took all the money out of her bank account to found it, then died after falling on subway tracks. Her sister found the plans for the foundation, and started it, and it was a huge success.

No one in the afterlife could agree on whether she should get credit for the charity or not, so they created the Medium Place for her.

This raises the question of how she escaped the Bad Place when there have been people over the last 500 years who helped millions of others and weren't greedy assholes most of their lives, and ended up in the Bad Place anyway.

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From what we learned even the good people's choices can have a negative impact on the world. I'm going to assume that Mindy's charity had only a positive impact, but she was a greedy lawyer which made her not fit for the Good Place. So they made the medium place. 

She's not living a great life, she gets only mediocre things and lives completely alone. The only plus side is she's not being tortured by demons. 

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So THIS is the episode that will get me to buy the season 3 DVDs. I loved it. Niednogle deserved to have a character named after him, with everything he did in the episode.

The Chick Fil A joke was priceless....and so true.

I love that Gen just found out she's black.

Everyone was so forking funny in this episode.

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31 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

From what we learned even the good people's choices can have a negative impact on the world. I'm going to assume that Mindy's charity had only a positive impact, but she was a greedy lawyer which made her not fit for the Good Place. So they made the medium place. 

The good she did happened after she died, well, the effects happened after her death. She didn't have an opportunity to screw up after starting the charity because she literally died. 

18 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

I love that Gen just found out she's black.

She was like "people do not like us!" and I was like, "welcome, Gen"

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1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Since no one had gotten into the Good Place since the 1500's. Simone was headed to the bad place anyway. I can see the the demons sending her there to mess with them. 

True, although that seems like it would make the experimental results highly suspect unless her memory is partially wiped.  Being forced to interact with someone you knew when you were alive is very different from being tossed into a place with a bunch of strangers. 

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I know that I shouldn’t have been so delighted to see Shawn. But I was absolutely delighted to see Shawn.

His entrance was so great I had to rewind.

Loved the Chick Fil-A joke, too.

But overall, the show is starting to lose me. I think the balance between clever and funny has shifted too far away from funny. It's become too much about just waiting for the next wacky reboot to get out of some impossible situation. I spend a lot of each episode ("Janet(s)" aside) going "uh-huh, yes, OK, that's clever" and very little time actually laughing.

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23 minutes ago, cpcathy said:

The Chick Fil A joke was priceless....and so true.

 

Was watching the show on a delay so I was able to rewind the joke a couple times l.  It was hilarious.   Eating at a fast food place means you hate gay people....

Is the food worth going to the bad place for? 

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22 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

She was like "people do not like us!" and I was like, "welcome, Gen"

GIRL. "Hey Gen. Welcome. Please, join us at the intersection of racism and sexism." And it's funny - I didn't even think of the fact that there's no racism or sexism in the beyond.

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4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

She was a really bad lawyer?  I think but then got really high and decided to give all her money to charity but before she could do that...died.  So you can ponder the good things attempted but no unintended consequences.  It’s a big quandary of what if’s.

She wrote up a plan for a charity. her sister(?) implemented Mindy’s plan. it is the biggest charity in the world and has helped countless people. She had unintended good consequences. 

Edited by Affogato
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"It's illegal to have an un-fried vegetable in Florida.

"Possession of an un-fried vegetable is a felony in Jacksonville." Actually. :-)

Quote

"I was torturing Shakespeare by telling him the plot to the latest Entourage movie"

It does my heart good to know that Shakespeare is in The Bad Place being tortured for all eternity. God knows he's been torturing school children for just as long.

This episode was great and had so many great lines - I also loved the visual of Janet "giving birth" - just standing there grunting like she was pushing a baby out.

I have a problem with their idea, though. The truth is, aside from Eleanor, nobody really "improved" after they got to the "Good Place." We already found that out when they wound up doing the judge's test at the end of Season 2. Tahani is still motivated by what other people think of her, Chidi is still paralyzed by indecision, and Jason is still . . . Jason. So I'm not sure why the judge is willing to go along with this experiment since it's based on the principal that they all "improved" once they got to the "Good Place."

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