S37.E11: So Smart They're Dumb

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, green said:

<snip>How did Mike and Angelina become so close?  Angelina has been a real sneaky player.  Watch out for her.  She survived her deserved targeting and has come back like gang busters.<snip>

 

I don't believe they really did. I belive Mike is an opportunist and when the situation presented itself, Ang figured she could get some advantage for herself by cozying up to Mike and making him think she was his new best friend. But I doubt Mike was fooled. I think he would have understood exactly what she was doing and he was smart enough to know that if she wanted to throw her alleged support at him, he was not going to turn her down. He would play along as long as he felt it was to his advantage.

Mike is not a particularly good player. But he is a very clever man. Clever enough to be able to come out on top when a situation does not involve more than just 2 or 3 people. IMHO, Mike doesn't seem to be able to control a group of people very well. But he can easily understand what's going on with just one or two other people and he knows how to manage that kind of scenario.

[MisterBluxom]

Re Nick and Davey. After tonight's events, I have come to the conclusion that Davey is a much better player than Nick and I would love to see Davey win the season.

[mertensia]

A few seasons ago Masterchef, Junior had a contestant who cried every time he got frustrated to the point that I speculated that he had learned to do this because this meant teachers/parents would come help him. That's what Gabby's tears reminded me of.

In any case, unless he gets lucky at the Immunity challenge next week or finds another idol, Christian is gone.

I did love Davie's "you can't get mad. It's Survivor. It's what you do."

[GaT]

I had to ff through the family crap, I just could not stand the weeping & wailing, I really don't watch Survivor to see that crap. And speaking of weeping & wailing, YAY!!!!! GABBY IS GONE!!!!!

[30 Helens]

I refuse to buy into the “Hell hath no fury like a Gabby scorned” scenario.  The editors were working pretty hard tonight to make it look like she was motivated by jealousy, but that is a tired and insulting stereotype of women. And prior to tonight, there was no indication that Gabby had any romantic feelings toward Christian at all. Could she have been jealous? Sure. I don’t know what’s in her mind. But I find it more likely that she actually was trying to make a big move. And the fact that she didn’t pull it off doesn’t make it a bad move. (Being so vocal about it at TC, on the other hand...)  Farewell Gabby, you brilliant, weepy mess. I didn’t hate you, but I can’t say I’ll miss you.

I, too, found Mike’s reunion with his boyfriend weirdly chaste. I missed the announcement of who he was and at first assumed he was a brother, or maybe a cousin.  Clearly they’re not into PDA. But c’mon, Mike, at least give him a peck on the cheek. Geez.

I had to laugh at Angelina bragging to her mom about the Great Negotiation. That must be some competitive family, or she just really, really craves praise.  She may be 80% Tracy Flick, but I think she’s also 20% overeager puppy.

For those who thought Christian’s TC moves were calculated, count me in. I felt that he scrutinized everyone’s face as a way to make them feel like he had some kind of superacute mental powers— like, “You can’t fool me! I can look into your eyes and know just what you’re thinking, so don’t try it again!” He knew he was going to play the idol before he got there.  As for his glances at Gabby, I think he just wanted her to know he knew.

I have no idea where this is headed, but for now I’m firmly Team Davie. I really like his style, and also it would be so fitting if, at the end, Davie slew Goliath.  (The only downside to that is that Jeff would love the pun way too much.)

Edited December 6, 2018 by 30 Helens
Fixed typo. Thanks Ms Blue Jay! :)

[MisterBluxom]

Christian's move of looking at each person before deciding to play his idol may not have had a huge value. But just so long as one of those people would get nervous and display some kind of "tell" or "tick", it could pay of very well. IMHO, it was a very clever thing for Christian to do because one of those people may have not expected it and with all the TV cameras there and the need to keep secrets and a few other factors, it would have been easy for one of them to avert their eyes when they had not done that before and given Christian a clue that he better play the idol. And that is exactly what happened.

I think it was a great move because it had zero downside risk. I mean, was there something bad for him to do this? Did it cost him anything? No. It was an extra free chance he had and he took it and it paid off for him. It was a clever tactic.

[loki567]

Quote

I refuse to buy into the “Hell hath o fury like a Gabby scorned” scenario.  The editors were working pretty hard tonight to make it look like she was motivated by jealousy, but that is a tired and insulting stereotype of women.

These people are human though. Jealousy does play a factor in everybody's lives so I don't know why that it can't be a factor in reality game shows as well. And it's obviously not just a female issue, BB20 just had an entire alliance die because a male player was jealous of another's male player relationship with his showmance. Honestly, I think we've even seen it this season with Dan's "Why weren't you strategizing with meeee?" to Kara after John's blindside. 

But Gabby specifically mentioned seeing Christian and his GF together as the reason she wanted to target him. Everyone else seemed shocked when she brought it up. I think you can read between the lines of the situation.

[KimberStormer]

It's funny how just a couple weeks ago I was saying the Goliaths were a smoking pile of rubble and now the Davids are too.  I guess that's for the best, the game might be really wide-open now, everyone for themself.  Which is good, but also means I have a lot of trouble figuring out how it's going to go.  Because none of the alliances feel clear to me, I don't feel like I have a good sense of what the relationships are anymore.  On the reward absolutely nothing made sense to me -- neither Nick, Angelina, and Mike being so gung ho about them being a Final 4, nor Davie being so not into it.  Like, Nick can beat Angelina and Mike for sure, I get that, but since when does he have any relationship with Angelina at all?  Why does she want to go with him?  Why does Mike?  Why does Nick still want to work with Mike anyway?  Why does Mike think he can beat Nick or Davie?  Why in God's name does Davie not want to go with these 4 to the end when he could probably beat them, especially if he can get rid of Nick?  Who would he rather go with?  If Davie isn't allied with Nick then who the heck is he allied with?  It's all very puzzling.

I don't know about Gabby's move.  I honestly think she should have done it last week, instead of Carl.  Carl was the real weird move to me, not Christian.  Because she can beat Carl and because having betrayed the Davids right after they worked so hard to get the numbers (I felt for Nick when he was so frustrated about that) she severed the loyalty that any of them would feel for her.  Like yeah, it would be hard for her to do anything after voting out Christian, her closest ally -- but it wouldn't have been that hard if she'd not alienated all the Davids first.

Nick is still smart, I liked his using Gabby as the backup vote.  He was unable to trust either of them, and she was sticking her neck out; why not get rid of her, if there has to be a split-vote.  He was more angry than expected, maybe, but like he said, they did so much to get the advantage and Christian and Gabby pissed it away for no reason, Zeke-in-Game-Changers style.

I also remember that he talked about his addict mother early in the season and I feel like if he really cared for Christian then his reaction to betrayal is not totally unexpected.

Davie, on the other hand: I would love it if someone could explain to me what Davie is doing and why it's good.  His wanting to use Christian as a meat shield seems to me frankly delusional.  Davie does not need a meat shield.  There is nobody saying "boy we need to get Davie out, but first these other huge threats!"  When you're under the radar, letting a huge player like Christian get further does nothing to help you.  It does the opposite, really, because Christian sucks up all the air in the room, and it muffles the sound of, for example, Davie's great idol play earlier.  If it's smart for him to go along to get along when Christian and Gabby vote out his ally...why isn't it smart for him to go along with the group when they want to vote out someone who will 1000% beat him at FTC?  And when he has people enthusiastic about a F4 deal with him?  And F4 is all the game has to offer anymore since now it's 38 days of Survivor and then some bullshit that doesn't mean anything because Probst had to save his favorite marine?

Speaking of, Christian is dead in the water, with everyone voting against him -- should be, anyway.  Should be.  I said before that I thought it was too late for the season to turn bad, but that was in terms of Naviti Strong.  It is, unfortunately, very much not too late for it to turn into a total HvHvH shitshow.  Probst is going to be throwing fistfuls of idols at him like a WW1 plane dropping propaganda leaflets next week.  I am tired of his schtick (much more than I was of Gabby) and if he gets to the end through idols, advantages, suspicious immunity wins it will completely annihilate a good season and for no reason but a lack of faith in the rest of the cast -- who are just as great characters as he is, for the most part.  I hope nothing of the kind occurs, but my hackles are raised.

6 hours ago, LanceM said:

Correction. Two of the Goliaths want to go the final four with Nick.  Neither of them have said (yet) they want to sit with him the final 3.

It's the same thing now thanks to Probst's baloney.  Fire challenge is just random chance out of anyone's control.

6 hours ago, kikaha said:

Terrible idea to let Davie in on the plan.  If not for that, Christian probably would have gotten booted tonight. 

Well it was a terrible idea to not let Gabby in on the plan last week -- if not for that, Carl would still be in the game.  I think the decision to include Davie is the better one, because it assumes that Davie is playing rationally -- but apparently not.  At least, not as far as I can tell; but someone tell me where I'm wrong since:

6 hours ago, susannot said:

I am just crazy about Davie.  Many of you agree with me, right?  I think his strategy is to let the crazy white people vote each other out.  I hope that doesn't sound racist but if I were a smart black guy on the show I would follow that strategy. So far NO ONE has viewed him as a threat.  

That sounds to me exactly why he shouldn't hesitate to vote out Christian.

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It's extremely cool that Davie has all of his own ideas when a bunch of people basically spell out what he "should" do for "his" game.  I have no idea what Mike is thinking but the editors are painting him as Davie's opposite.  He's so smug at the reward challenge telling his boyfriend that everyone thinks Mike's in their pocket but honestly, does Mike even know what he wants to do in this game? I would like to be shown that, if there's any concrete idea. 

I think it's cool when people have their own ideas -- even when it's Gabby, or Ciera, or Abi-Maria, or whichever young woman the board hates that week -- but I like it better when I know what the hell they're doing.  I totally agree that we have no idea what Mike wants to do, and I too wonder if he has any idea himself -- but I think the same about Davie.

6 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Now that I've had a moment to think about it, I'm wondering if the issue for Gabby wasn't so much a romantic jealousy per se but that Christian never told her he had a girlfriend.

OK, so when Jeff said he was bringing out Christian's girlfriend I knew exactly where the editors were going, and I was, as the kids say, totally here for it: but I don't believe it for one second.  I don't think we have any reason whatsoever to believe that Christian never told Gabby he has a girlfriend.  It's just that they left it out of the edit, specifically so they could surprise us with this.  And good work, it was a hilarious bit of creative editing, the sort of thing they've been really shining with this season.  But of course he told her about his girlfriend.  (I also immediately winced to think of the "he could do better" sort of comments about his girlfriend's attractiveness that I could tell would follow.)

Honestly I think if there was any jealousy in Gabby's move it was game-related: the Carl move was entirely her move, her idea, her execution, but Christian got all the credit.  Now I personally know this frustration very well, as I think I have mentioned in re: Stephen and JT, because my best friend is a natural extrovert and extremely charismatic and whenever she helps me with something it becomes, in everyone's mind, her excellent thing and I am just some random girl who happens to be there too, does anybody know that girl's name?  (My confident pugnatious Internet persona is a total put-on, don't tell anybody)  It can really take the wind out of your sails, especially when you really need people to give you credit for things in order to win the game.

4 hours ago, Lamima said:

And how were some of the parent/child pairs so extremely opposing in height (Nick and Allison)???

Totally crazy, right?  On the other hand, Gabby's mom looks just like her.

[Kenzie]

8 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Oh, oh, Gabby's crying at watching Davie run to his mom. What a shocking display of emotion!! 

Kara's brother, Eric, looks pretty nice. Maybe it's time for another Blood vs. Water.

Nick's dad looks like a chubby Dale (Kelly Wentworth's dad).

Oh no, now Gabby's crying because she sees her mom!! How dare she!

I was hoping to see Mel as Mike's loved one.

I had a feeling Christian had a girlfriend. I wonder if Gabby has a broken heart.

Whenever I see a digging challenge, I think of the one in Worlds Apart that took Caleb out of the game.

I think Gabby did have a big crush on Christian and envy at seeing him interact with his girlfriend played a big part in her sudden 'need' to vote him off. 

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I always love the loved ones visits because you get so much insight into people. But tonight for the first time, the visits made me feel bad. Every season people say "What wimps! Why are they crying just because they haven't seen their families for a few weeks". But obviously, there must be a reason, because each season 100% of the Survivors start crying like babies. 

This time, I realized they all seemed sort of traumatized, and I felt bad.

I agree, I even thought their loved ones seemed both worried and embarrassed for their people.  Nick's dad in particular. I was only embarrassed for Davie's mother with her blatant favoritism.  Alison and her little butterball mom were adorable together.

Well, Gabby has joined my least favorite Survivor, "I voted out my Mom" Ciera.  I don't get why doing something hurtful and disloyal equals Big Brilliant Move in anyone's mind.

Emily If you're reading this, I think you're prettier than Gabby and have better legs.

[knitorpurl]

I think these big moves, voting out Carl and attempting to vote out Christian, just came a couple of weeks too soon. Everyone is playing so hard they've gotten too eager to keep their perspective. 

Gabby's stated motivation was that she could see that how Christian was comforting and reassuring with his girlfriend is how he was with her and that is what made her want to make this move. Was that jealousy? Or a moment of self realization? And not liking what she saw she immediately wanted to change others perception of her. So much so she took the controls and banked so hard to the left she crashed and burned. Taking a deep breath and working on deepening her alliance with Alison, Davie, etc independently for a few more days before making the move against Christian would have been wiser, but the emotional reaction still won out with her.

Another emotional player is Nick. He was all over the place tonight. I thought he might pass out during the family visit and that was before his dad made it out! And his bitterness toward Christian was totally understandable but hope he can get a game plan together. I like Nick more as the game has developed.

Really would like to see Davie go far. I think his feeling that he needs Christian as a shield actually has some validity- he's playing an under the radar game because Carl, Gabby and Christian have been so obvious and have kept the Goliath's attention. Now he's down to Christian who fills that role; coupled with his sense of loyalty I can see why he didn't want him to go. As much as the tribes are over and there has been blending it is still on enough people's consciousness that Davie would come to the forefront. But he's going to have to step up sooner rather than later as we're getting to the end.

[green]

22 minutes ago, knitorpurl said:

I think these big moves, voting out Carl and attempting to vote out Christian, just came a couple of weeks too soon. Everyone is playing so hard they've gotten too eager to keep their perspective. 

Gabby's stated motivation was that she could see that how Christian was comforting and reassuring with his girlfriend is how he was with her and that is what made her want to make this move. Was that jealousy? Or a moment of self realization? And not liking what she saw she immediately wanted to change others perception of her. So much so she took the controls and banked so hard to the left she crashed and burned. Taking a deep breath and working on deepening her alliance with Alison, Davie, etc independently for a few more days before making the move against Christian would have been wiser, but the emotional reaction still won out with her.

Another emotional player is Nick. He was all over the place tonight. I thought he might pass out during the family visit and that was before his dad made it out! And his bitterness toward Christian was totally understandable but hope he can get a game plan together. I like Nick more as the game has developed.

Really would like to see Davie go far. I think his feeling that he needs Christian as a shield actually has some validity- he's playing an under the radar game because Carl, Gabby and Christian have been so obvious and have kept the Goliath's attention. Now he's down to Christian who fills that role; coupled with his sense of loyalty I can see why he didn't want him to go. As much as the tribes are over and there has been blending it is still on enough people's consciousness that Davie would come to the forefront. But he's going to have to step up sooner rather than later as we're getting to the end.

Great post.  Also Davie won immunity last time and came in second this time and won the reward challenge as well this time. He has done well in team reward challenges too.  So he is being noticed big time for sure and most definitely needs a "greater threat" shield since he is looking like the most likely person to win through using challenges.

[himela]

Well there goes my winner pick. :(

Did anyone else consider the possibility that Gabby was jealous of Emily and she realized she (Gabby) was not the only person Christian pays attention to and comforts so she decided to vote him out? Or am I too suspicious?

[truthaboutluv]

7 hours ago, loki567 said:

But Gabby specifically mentioned seeing Christian and his GF together as the reason she wanted to target him. Everyone else seemed shocked when she brought it up. I think you can read between the lines of the situation.

That's the main thing for me regarding the speculation. Some talk about looks during the loved ones visit when Christian's girlfriend came out but I for one didn't see any of that. And had the episode simply shown her saying she's too tied to Christian and he'll beat her in the end, the speculation about her being jealous wouldn't be so heavy or at least I would not have thought that was the case.

But you clearly see Gabby in her talking head, discussing seeing Christian with his girlfriend and spinning it as this whole thing of how maybe he wants people to see him as the nurturer, etc. It's entirely possible Gabby did not articulate herself very well and she was saying his playing up that protector role makes people like him more and see him as protecting her and makes them think she couldn't stand her on without him, etc. And all of that may have been true in terms of how the others viewed her. But the delivery and the timing of it just didn't make sense or it wasn't explained very well on her part. 

 

6 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Nick is still smart, I liked his using Gabby as the backup vote.  He was unable to trust either of them, and she was sticking her neck out; why not get rid of her, if there has to be a split-vote.  He was more angry than expected, maybe, but like he said, they did so much to get the advantage and Christian and Gabby pissed it away for no reason, Zeke-in-Game-Changers style.

But the thing is, the numbers were still even. So they still had the ability to get the upper hand with the numbers. I get the argument of his feeling like he couldn't trust them anymore but if it was the numbers he was so mad about, they did still have the ability to control it. However, Nick, from the moment they got back from tribal seemed hell bent on getting Christian and Gabby period and he didn't care that that would mean they were officially 4 Goliaths to 3 Davids.  Not saying he didn't have a reason to be upset but did make his moves this episode based on pure strategy or like others accused Gabby of, emotion?

 

4 hours ago, knitorpurl said:

I think these big moves, voting out Carl and attempting to vote out Christian, just came a couple of weeks too soon. Everyone is playing so hard they've gotten too eager to keep their perspective. 

This is where I come on the side of. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[thejuicer]

I thought Christian and his girlfriend were very sweet together. And kind of how I imagine my reunion would be with my husband. Jeff was teasing them with "Finally they hug!" Some people are shy with PDA, some long term couples are not physically affectionate in public. I felt like Jeff expected Emily to jump into Christian's arms and wrap her legs around him, Bachelor style. And I agree with others who have said how cruel it is to make fun of Emily's looks. 

I am starting to wonder just how good Christian's game play is. Taking out Carl was a stupid, stupid move. So was pissing off Nick.

I wonder why Alison is seen as such a big threat? To me, she seems like a wet blanket. I would vote for anyone else to win over her. Well maybe except Mike. But Kara, Angelina, Davie, Nick, and Christian to me have all done more in this game.

[Bryce Lynch]

Kudos to Mike for coming up with the idea of putting votes on Gabby as the backup.

Carl was understanably staring daggers at Christian and Gabby as he entered the jury box.  He looked almost "menacing". :)

Gabby and Christian really blew up their games last week, with Gabby's hare brained scheme.  This week we saw the predictable consequences.

You don't make "BIG moves" to enhance your resume.  You make them to advance in the game and remove threats. If they help your resume that is just a bonus.

Gabby was totally clueless in thinking that backstabbing your closet ally and best friend, when it helps every other tribe member more than it helps you, would be seen as a positive on her resume.

Gabby was also way off in worrying about Christian getting "credit" for their moves.  I don't think Christian has been viewed as a master strategist.  His biggest strength has been (until the past two episodes) his great social game.  He formed good relationships with nearly all the other castaways, while Gabby only formed one, with Christian, and then stabbed him in the back.

I love Davie, but he lost me when he blasted Nick for being mad at Christian, saying "Christian blindsided me twice but I don't take it personally.". Sorry Davie, when an ally blindsides you twice, it doesn't matter if it was personal or strictly business.  He can't be trusted and needs to go.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[himela]

10 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

 I thought her and Christian were maybe going to be a couple but Christian has a girlfriend.

He and his girlfriend are together for 10 years as fas as I know. It was not a secret he has a gf.

[Kenzie]

When Angelia hugged her mom and blurted out a second later about her fantabulous rice negotiations it looked like the others were laughing and smiling. Kara though had her face covered and I couldn't tell if she had something in her eye or was trying to hide her laughter?

 

Whomever it was several pages back that remarked Angelina craved praise for any accomplishment more than the accomplishment itself was spot on.

[DEL901]

9 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I think Gabby saw Christian with his Girlfriend and heard how he spoke about protecting her and putting her emotions first. Then Gabby looked around and saw Christian comforting Alison and Kara. And Gabby realized that Christian is a good guy who has been supporting her and pretty much everyone else out there and she finally understood the ramifications of that support. I was happy to see her step up to the plate and make a move with little drama. 

 

4 hours ago, loki567 said:

These people are human though. Jealousy does play a factor in everybody's lives so I don't know why that it can't be a factor in reality game shows as well. And it's obviously not just a female issue, BB20 just had an entire alliance die because a male player was jealous of another's male player relationship with his showmance. Honestly, I think we've even seen it this season with Dan's "Why weren't you strategizing with meeee?" to Kara after John's blindside. 

But Gabby specifically mentioned seeing Christian and his GF together as the reason she wanted to target him. Everyone else seemed shocked when she brought it up. I think you can read between the lines of the situation.

 

44 minutes ago, himela said:

Well there goes my winner pick. :(

Did anyone else consider the possibility that Gabby was jealous of Emily and she realized she (Gabby) was not the only person Christian pays attention to and comforts so she decided to vote him out? Or am I too suspicious?

Yeah, I go with door # 3.  I don't think Gabby was jealous romantically.  I think Christian made her feel special and then she saw him with Emily and realized that he's just that kind of guy and his kindness to her didn't necessarily mean that he thought she was special.

[Haleth]

I really hope it was just editing that suggested Gabby was a Woman Scorned, because her assessment that Christian needed to be voted out was correct, regardless of his romantic situation.

If people thought Christian and Emily were awkward together, so were Mike and his bf.  Neither couple had an overly dramatic reunion.  Some people are reticent about PDAs.  (For the record I'd be wailing and you'd have to pry me off my loved one.)

I wonder if Christian had any clue he was on the chopping block before Davey warned him.  His looking into the eyes of the other survivors was a fun tv moment, but did he already know he'd have to play his idol?  When he spoke up and played his idol the people who wanted him out broke into huge grins.  Angelina and Mike had reason to smile, knowing their plan worked, but Gabby was nearly giddy.  What was she thinking?  Next week I hope to see Nick, Davey, and Christian again being proactive and looking for a new idol in the night.

6 hours ago, MisterBluxom said:

Re Nick and Davey. After tonight's events, I have come to the conclusion that Davey is a much better player than Nick and I would love to see Davey win the season.

I'd love to see either of them win.  I hope either/or can convey to the jury what an UTR game they were playing.  I can't see how any combo of Angelina, Mike, Alison, or Kara could beat them unless the Goliaths on the jury stick to their original tribe.  Which would suck.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Haleth

[Whimsy]

Reminder: there is NO preview talk in episode threads.  Zero, Zilch, Nada.  ANY mention of the previews in your posts will cause the posts to be removed.  Previews can be discussed in the Preview & Speculation thread.

[kikaha]

9 hours ago, North of Eden said:

And to be candid...Christian would totally be trading up from Emily to Gabby. I would have loved to see the awkward picnic on the raft if they had won that challenge.

I'm not so sure about that.  Remember what Christian said about Emily.  She sounds wonderful, perfect for him.  Gabby OTOH is neurotic, demanding, vain, repeatedly breaks down sobbing... and jealous to boot.  With Gabby he has to act almost as a therapist.  With Emily he can be himself. 

Btw, I don't think Gabby was only jealous of Emily (though she was).  She thought her relationship with Christian was unique.  Seeing Christian interact, first with Emily and then with Alison back at camp, was a harsh awakening.  That's  how he is with other women, not just with Gabby.  And that IMO is when her plan to boot him crystallized in her mind. 

[Whimsy]

I've had to hide a few posts.  If you fully suspect something is a spoiler, repeating said "spoiler" is then perceived as a spoiler and gets people upset.  Posts related to this "spoiler" have been removed. 

Also, as a reminder, it is not your place to scold another poster.  If you have an issue with what a poster says and think it's something that should be dealt with, report it.  Contrary to what some people would like, references to someone's looks on a television show is allowed here.  You may not agree with that person, but you cannot tell them they should be ashamed of themselves, etc. 

[Fake Jan Brady]

8 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

I did get a bit teary when Nick talked about how his father sold his blood in order to provide milk for four kids.

Nick referred to it as "donating" blood; it's not a donation if you're getting paid. As you can see, family visits never penetrate my cynicism shield.

[Bryce Lynch]

45 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I really hope it was just editing that suggested Gabby was a Woman Scorned, because her assessment that Christian needed to be voted out was correct, regardless of his romantic situation.

If people thought Christian and Emily were awkward together, so were Mike and his bf.  Neither couple had an overly dramatic reunion.  Some people are reticent about PDAs.  (For the record I'd be wailing and you'd have to pry me off my loved one.)

I wonder if Christian had any clue he was on the chopping block before Davey warned him.  His looking into the eyes of the other survivors was a fun tv moment, but did he already know he'd have to play his idol?  When he spoke up and played his idol the people who wanted him out broke into huge grins.  Angelina and Mike had reason to smile, knowing their plan worked, but Gabby was nearly giddy.  What was she thinking?  Next week I hope to see Nick, Davey, and Christian again being proactive and looking for a new idol in the night.

I'd love to see either of them win.  I hope either/or can convey to the jury what an UTR game they were playing.  I can't see how any combo of Angelina, Mike, Alison, or Kara could beat them unless the Goliaths on the jury stick to their original tribe.  Which would suck.

Christian needed to go, but it was not in Gabby's interest to clip him this week.   Because of the idiotic, premature move she talked him into last week, he was her only remaining ally and seems to be the only person in the game she had a really, strong bond with.  She was delusional to think the other players would suddenly give her "credit" for backstabbing her only ally while destroying what was left of her own game, and hand her a million dollars.  

I think all or most of the tribe (other than Christian and Gabby of course) were in on the plan to throw votes at Gabby.  Nick was definitely there when Mike proposed it, and I think maybe Davie as well.  

I agree about Christian and Emily and Mike and his bf.  Some people aren't big on PDA and their more subdued reactions were refreshing compared to the people who weep hysterically when their  father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate shows up.   

50 minutes ago, cousin oliver said:

Nick referred to it as "donating" blood; it's not a donation if you're getting paid. As you can see, family visits never penetrate my cynicism shield.

LOL!  I admire your impenetrable cynicism shield.  But, I believe the organizations paying for blood or plasma euphemistically refer to it as "donating", even when you get paid.   

[Bryce Lynch]

9 hours ago, fatewemake said:

I'm tired of the goodbye messages where they say the were voted out because they were a threat --- even if it is true statement.  A little surprised that Gabby went that route, but at least she didn't cry again.

If a survivor uses a goodbye message that says "I was voted out because I'm a threat" have the producers say "no, you were not...  please redo your goodbye message".  And, make sure to show us the reaction :-).

I like your rule. Another should be, "If I catch myself saying I need to make 'a BIG move', do not make that move."   

Gabby actually hilariously said that, she must be more of a Goliath than she thought, because they voted her out.  

[SuburbanHangSuite]

2 hours ago, thejuicer said:

I wonder why Alison is seen as such a big threat? To me, she seems like a wet blanket. I would vote for anyone else to win over her.

THIS!!!  The only thing I can come up with is they think she's well liked and a bunch of Goliaths would vote for her to get the million??  Other than that, I got nothing.  She did win an Immunity but they're not showing her strategizing--she usually gets pulled into a plan after it's been formulated.  And her explaining to Jeff why she's such a huge threat was weak, cringey and laughable all at once.

[mojoween]

The Davids had this in the bag and pissed it all away.  Now they’re down in numbers again.  And with Jeff continuing to perpetuate the David vs. Goliath bullshit in the IC what’s to stop the four Goliaths left from picking off the three Davids?  And I will hate that.

Gah I hate this. They’ve been one tribe for weeks now but I still prefer all the Davids left to any Goliath so I'm just as bad as Peachy.

Kara must have some superpower in her hair.  She made that IC look like a stroll in the park.

And did anyone else see the IC setup and think that Mike was going to drop first, if not immediately?

[marys1000]

I watched at someone's house which means I feel like I missed things.  It was my 10 year old grand nephew that pointed out that Gabby was reacting to Christian's description of his gf.  He said "he's using the exact same words he used about her"  (Not sure why Gabby would know what Christian said about her to others or in a secret scene).    I keep going around in circles on this strategy of Gabby's.  First it seems stupid, then I can sort of make sense of it in my head for various reasons, then other reasons make it seem stupid again.  I mean she's a superfan.  How was she figureing numbers, future alliances and jury votes on this?  If everyone has been wanting Christian out isn't she just jumping on the same bandwagon?  How is that her big move?  

Wouldn't it have been a bigger move to say she was flipping but have orchestrated a Christian save?

  Either way, after the letters last week Gabby was shown all pepped up and ready to do battle based on a letter from her loved one.  I think this was just the continuation of her drive to do that.  I don't think this episode was romantic jealously so much as maybe a wake up call, although again, that close of an alliance with someone who keeps throwing their game away for you will get you to final 4 IDK......circles

My question is - whose name was being thrown around before Christians?  Who else's name would have come up?  Would it have been Christian anyway?  At this point I'm not sure why Christian is seen as 'the biggest threat'.  Angelina plays hard and according to Alec is well liked, Nick plays hard, Kara has game and challenge game.  Allison is a mystery but is fit.  Davie has lots of game.  Mike, everyone seems to like Mike if its social game that makes Christian such a threat.  Hey he's hollywood big shot rich guy regaling people around the fire with tales of movie set shenanigans. I also think he is good with words which could benefite him at FTC.  I think some people have lost at FTC just because they can't articulate why they should have won.   Angelina picked him for family reward and when he ran to her and gave her a huge uninhibited hug Angelina said I Love You!   They also were the two that voted Gabby together.  So while Mike isn't making a lot of moves he is Nick's Rock Start and as much a threat as Christian.  Everyone but Allison and Gabby seemed threat worthy at this point? So of course all the threats are pretty happy to have someone point at someone else.  

Are we talking Jury votes?  Carl isn't voting for Christian.  Jon probably won't.  Dan probably won't.   As for Davie telling Christian, hey jury management but he got away with it unlike Angelina.  

Hasn't Davie done this twice now?  Told someone about the TC vote target, Christian and ?  

Right now I would be happy with pretty much anyone winning.  I like all the players left.  So far I would love a Davie win.  I'm a little scared to say this because it might be misconstrued but I think Davie may be overlooked because of his race.  I also think it might be why his emotional reaction/game play regarding last weeks vote is so different than Nicks.  No way of knowing whether race plays into it but it would be sort of fun if it was an advantage for a change?  

Now we get to see whether Christian does have the social skills and is the threat that everyone seems to think he is (I'm not convinced) because he is finally going to get to play.  Frankly to my eyes his entire game so far has been wrapped around Gabby and their little twosome, making sure she is safe.  IDK whether he's been playing or just reacting to Gabby's needs.

What was the vote that split the relationship between Mike and Christian?  Gabby.  Nick and Christian. Gabby.  

So now Gabby is gone he has a lot of work to do.  If he is the threat everyone says he is maybe he can move the target. Or since everyone is pretty much a threat, all the other threats might stay resolved on him regardless since its not them for TC and a few more days in the game for them.  

[blackwing]

7 hours ago, MisterBluxom said:

Christian's move of looking at each person before deciding to play his idol may not have had a huge value. But just so long as one of those people would get nervous and display some kind of "tell" or "tick", it could pay of very well. IMHO, it was a very clever thing for Christian to do because one of those people may have not expected it and with all the TV cameras there and the need to keep secrets and a few other factors, it would have been easy for one of them to avert their eyes when they had not done that before and given Christian a clue that he better play the idol. And that is exactly what happened.

I think it was a great move because it had zero downside risk. I mean, was there something bad for him to do this? Did it cost him anything? No. It was an extra free chance he had and he took it and it paid off for him. It was a clever tactic.

I thought it was all a show for the jury.  If he makes it to the end, he wants everyone to know that he’s so incredibly smart and intuitive that it’s almost like he has superhuman telepathy powers.  He knows what people are thinking even before they think it!   How could you not want to give the million dollars to this man who clearly played the best game?  It was all an act.

He didn’t need to look at each person to get a tell on whether they were voting him out.   He already knew.   He was giving Gabby the “how could you” look of disappointed disapproval long before they voted.

Agree with those who say that Alison is a nothing.  Her early edit she was invisible.  Then she started talking and she perceived herself as a huge physical threat.  Mike called her Wonder Woman.  Why?  Because she is tall?   Kara is physically stronger than Alison - she had three sandbags during that reward challenge, her biceps during the stand on the pole challenge that got Alec out looked bigger than Mike’s, etc.   And she’s a much better strategist than Alison.  Kara is the Wonder Woman, not Alison.

[Special K]

In the Emily vs. Gabby arena, I really don't think Gabby is smart enough for Christian.  

I actually thought Mike and his boyfriend had the most awkward reunion, but I do know plenty of gay couples who don't engage in PDA because of how risky it can be to do so.  Even in NYC where I live, I know of some older (married) male couples who don't touch each other in public.

I like the reunions, because I like seeing people from the contestants' real lives, which I think gives us perspective on them.  Like clearly Angelina really is a try-hard and still wants Mommy's approval.  But I absolutely HATE Jeff's questions to them.  They are the worst.  And I always hated when they had the loved ones compete. 

At TC, I think Christian was trying to see who would meet his eye -- in particular, I think he was sizing up Nick who had tried to snow him earlier.  Nick does not have a poker face.

Kara is the real immunity challenge threat.  She could sail to the end!

Alison is a threat?

Nick's fangs continue to be adorable to me.

Love Davie. 

Still hoping for a win by one of the last Davids standing.

[piewarmer]

11 hours ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

Angelina is SO emotional upon seeing her mom and the first thing she does is brag about her stupid rice negotiation?  AGAIN?!  What a maroon

 

This is the first time I can recall seeing tribemates roll their eyes through the traditional Family Visit Tears.

Speaking of which, Nick flapping his hands in an effort to release some of that emotion was adorable.

Edited December 6, 2018 by piewarmer
words matter

[ByaNose]

1 minute ago, piewarmer said:

This is the first time I can recall that we saw tribemates roll their eyes through the traditional Family Visit Tears.

Speaking of which, Nick flapping his hands in an effort to release some of that emotion was adorable.

She is really is something, isn't she? She isn't a true villian in the reality sense. I think this is how she is in real life but probably never realized it until now. It was so funny how they were turning their head and rolling their eyes. I think that's what they've been doing all season. They just let her go on and on and on. Thus no one listening to her weeks ago when she wanted to vote people out.

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, Jextella said:

I actually really like Kara and think she has played an amazing social game.  

Has she? I like Kara too and I think she's probably the biggest (and maybe only really) threat to go on a hardcore immunity run, but she doesn't seem to be close to anyone at all now. She's a very easy vote, especially if/when they all realize how much of a challenge threat she is, and she doesn't have anyone who's gonna try to save her, like Davie just weirdly did with Christian.

2 hours ago, thejuicer said:

I am starting to wonder just how good Christian's game play is.

It's not great and it really never has been. Christian is a smart guy and he is very likable, but he is not good at Survivor strategy. Hell, he really has never even tried to be lol. He hasn't really had to try though, but still. I am growing increasingly tired of him almost entirely because everyone thinks he's this Survivor genius when he really, really isn't. 

I liked your thoughts about Davie @KimberStormer. When he set out to save Christian I about lost my mind lol. I still like him and I think he's playing a decent game, but that was hard to understand. Now Gabby, I totally get why she targeted Christian and she explained it in a way that made complete sense really, but Davie's explanation for saving him made no real sense lol. But the editing, as always, is really hiding a lot of stuff from us, so maybe there really is some kind of "Davie is the next biggest threat!" stuff out there and we're just not seeing it. Hell, apparently everyone saw Carl as the de facto leader of the Davids and yet we were shown nothing to indicate that people thought that, so there's precedence.

Angelina is a laugh riot. How can someone be so transparent? It's astonishing! Normally I would have so much second-hand embarrassment for someone like her, but for some reason I can watch her and just laugh and laugh without cringing too much.

Normally I like they family visits, even with Jeff's absolutely horrible and stupid questioning, but this one made me uncomfortable a lot of the time tbh.

[amazingracefan]

Too predictable for me as it went on, with the Gabby edit and the Christian edit and when we heard that Gabby was the second choice in the vote it was obvious it was over.

I know Christian is supposed to be getting the golden boy edit and we're all supposed to like him, but I'm still just neutral.  He survived here but it was because of Davie spilling everything and I don't really like Davie after his saying he needs to conform to black stereotypes in the previous episode and his crazed jacket confessional.  And I certainly don't see the point in taking out Gabby and not Davie.  And I'm not really sure why Davie thinks he can beat Christian at the end.

Surely Nick was suspicious when Christian suddenly came over to him saying he knew he was upset. 

Otherwise I skipped over the whole 'love' section (about 10 minutes of it) as usual.  The immunity challenge was curious as Christian moved a lot at various points yet he kept in anyway.  I wonder if someone with shorter arms had an advantage in it.

Edited December 6, 2018 by amazingracefan

[ghoulina]

12 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Honestly, I was waiting to see if someone else would say it first. It's entirely possible the producers edited it to seem that way because they would do something like that but it's hard to ignore that once they come back from the loved ones reward challenge, you see Christian talking to Kara about his girlfriend, Gabby suddenly decides that she just has to make her big move against him.

And then she couched her reasoning in this ridiculous comment of how seeing him with his girlfriend made her realize he was that same comforting person with her and so it makes her think he's trying to be this comforter guy in the game. I guess in her mind that it's part of his strategy but I'm thinking if he seemed that way with his girlfriend, then doesn't that mean that it's likely who he is naturally?

Right??? I really didn't understand how she went from "he's comforting his girlfriend" (who was having a genuine, emotional moment) to "he's faking concern for everyone in this game and they're all eating it right up." If anything, it should have reinforced her image of Christian as a kind and supportive friend. 

I would not be surprised if jealousy were a factor. I actually wasn't even aware he HAD a girlfriend, and I wonder how much he talked about her at camp. It's also possible she really did just want to make "A BIG MOVE". Either way, I found it to be an ill-conceived move. Just not very well thought out. 

[Heathrowe]

I cannot get behind this Gabby move. I understand wanting Carl out last week, especially after being excluded from the alliance's decision. But voting out Carl and losing the number advantage, combined with trying to vote out Christian, the only one who really has her back-was just a double whammy of dumb. And then on top of it-did she learn nothing from the TC's that were blind sides? Don't run your mouth about it. She knew Christian had an immunity idol, but she was acting like she had the votes sewn up and that was enough? Zip it, lady!  I get that the big moves are flashy but this was no credit to her and if I were on the jury I wouldn't think it was brilliant, I'd think it was low. I know these alliances can't last forever, but I'm feeling much more understanding of Nick turning on Christian-after being betrayed-than Gabby. Anyway, goodbye Gabby, I don't think you ever could have won this game, anyway.

Leaving people out of strategy makes them feel vulnerable. That's why Gabby went after Carl. And that's why Nick was so angry with Christian. I would think his logic leap would be why wouldn't Gabby/Christian come after him next? Also, Survivor is good for his looks. HIs eyes look so blue with that tan! And the Survivor diet is making his cheekbones really...pretty.  Despite Nick's transformation to gorgeous guy, my favorite player is Davy. Flying under the radar but still playing a big part in all of these machinations. Does he need a "big move" when all the people on the jury know that he did xyz behind the scenes?

Not sure how Christian digs himself out of this but I suppose anything could happen. He wins immunity. Someone eats all the rice in the middle of the night. There should be a "Christian Lives" t-shirt at this point-but I'm not sure how much longer he can avoid the axe. I think he was saying Sorry...sorry to his girlfriend because he was crying all over her and emotional. I think his GF seemed lovely and the nasty comments here are...nasty.  He is clearly a guy who is able to comfort others-I wonder what his birth order is? He seems like a nurturer!

[Angeltoes]

Quote

Yuck! Gabby makes my skin crawl.  Who wants a bony, emotionally unstable, jealous, insecure, disloyal, manipulative, loon?

You must not watch Judy Judy.  People like that show up on there all the time and have other people fighting over them.  Never ceases to amaze.

[Special K]

1 minute ago, Heathrowe said:

 I think he was saying Sorry...sorry to his girlfriend because he was crying all over her and emotional. I think his GF seemed lovely and the nasty comments here are...nasty.  He is clearly a guy who is able to comfort others-I wonder what his birth order is? He seems like a nurturer!

I think he was saying "sorry I've been gone so long."  Something like that.  I think he is empathetic enough to know that he is having this great adventure and she was left at home in normal daily life (which is true for all Survivors and their loved-ones).  We've seen married couple express that, but usually from the loved one's side -- remember Dom's wife being so angry at him for being gone so long. 

[amazingracefan]

I don't remember thinking Gabby sounded jealous in any way.

[Dominii]

13 hours ago, DEL901 said:

13 hours ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

I don't understand why Gabby wanted to vote out her biggest ally.   

One word:  Emily

Absolutely! Good riddance to jealous little baby Gabby. You could tell she was jealous by the way she kept saying "true love, true love" like a broken talking doll. And the look on her face was very telling too.

Also, even though I like Christian, I'd like to see Davey win. Nick would be okay as well.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Dominii

[ghoulina]

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Davie, on the other hand: I would love it if someone could explain to me what Davie is doing and why it's good.  His wanting to use Christian as a meat shield seems to me frankly delusional.  Davie does not need a meat shield.  There is nobody saying "boy we need to get Davie out, but first these other huge threats!"  When you're under the radar, letting a huge player like Christian get further does nothing to help you.  It does the opposite, really, because Christian sucks up all the air in the room, and it muffles the sound of, for example, Davie's great idol play earlier.  If it's smart for him to go along to get along when Christian and Gabby vote out his ally...why isn't it smart for him to go along with the group when they want to vote out someone who will 1000% beat him at FTC?  And when he has people enthusiastic about a F4 deal with him?  And F4 is all the game has to offer anymore since now it's 38 days of Survivor and then some bullshit that doesn't mean anything because Probst had to save his favorite marine?

SLOW. CLAP. 

I like Davie. But I don't see what he's doing that is so awesome. I was a bit more impressed with Nick's smoothing things over with Christian (although I guess Christian ultimately didn't buy it) and plan to use Gabby as the backup. Davie almost seems like he wants to have HIS OWN IDEAS for the sake of having his own ideas, not because the other ideas are actually bad. 

[peachmangosteen]

5 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I was a bit more impressed with Nick's smoothing things over with Christian (although I guess Christian ultimately didn't buy it) and plan to use Gabby as the backup.

Was it Nick that came up with the idea to throw votes on Gabby? I think @KimberStormer also said this, but then someone else said it was Mike. I don't really remember. 

Quote

Davie almost seems like he wants to have HIS OWN IDEAS for the sake of having his own ideas, not because the other ideas are actually bad. 

Yea, I agree. A bit Gabby like actually, but Gabby sucks as a player and Davie is great apparently. 

[amazingracefan]

Mike suggested the vote for Gabby, maybe for social reasons because at this stage she was probably a goat to take to the end.  And I'm not one to condone her crying.  While that can be a stress reliever to people it also puts that stress onto other people, as anyone who has ever had to listen to arguing neighbours will testify.  Or maybe Mike sees himself more as the goat role now,  but he would have probably won v Gabby as he seems more liked.  So I still don't understand the move in terms of gameplay, the edit suggests Davie is a bigger threat.

[Mswldflwr]

11 hours ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

Yeah, that got me too.  I'm usually pretty stoic during the Loved Ones episode but every now and then, a tear wells up against my will.  Nick and his dad got me this season.  

And I kind of miss the days when the Loved Ones competed with the Survivors.  They need to bring that back.

Nick actually kind of lost me at that point.  He was complaining to his brother WHILE HE WAS IN COLLEGE that they had so little.  It seems Papa saw to it that his baby boy actually made it to college.  Some of the rest of us had so little with five kids, we figured out a way to get there for ourselves.

[ProfCrash]

Davie si a great player, he has driven the strategy for the Davids this entire season. My only critique is that his moves have been almost too subtle that it is going to be hard for him to get credit for his work.

Davie kept his idol and managed to get Natalia out on his swap tribe.

Davie was willing to sacrifice Elizabeth but knew to draw the line in the sand with the Christian vote

Davie used his idol and arranged the John vote to save Christian and take out a huge threat and get rid of an immunity idol

Davie helped decide how to use the vote steal and idol nullifier to take out Dan

Davie quietly saved Christian again by giving Christian the heads up and encouraging Nick to take out Gabby

A seriously great game but I am not certain that the others see it that way. Christian is still the big target and could legit win even though he owes his life in the game to Davie and Nick.

[amazingracefan]

NIck seemed ready to take out Gabby anyway, him and Angelina joyfully agreed with Mike about that move.

I still think Christian going over to Nick saying he knew he was upset should have been a signal to Nick that Davie had been talking.

[Jextella]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Emily If you're reading this, I think you're prettier than Gabby and have better legs.

 

All Emily needs is a haircut.  She's quite cute, IMO.

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Kudos to Mike for coming up with the idea of putting votes on Gabby as the backup.

 

Nick was the one with the idea.  I just rewatched to be sure.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Jextella said:

All Emily needs is a haircut.  She's quite cute, IMO.

Nick was the one with the idea.  I just rewatched to be sure.

I rewatched it this morning too.  I think the voice was off camera, but was Mike and Nick agreed.  I will have to re-rewatch.  

[Maximona]

13 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Unless Angelina wins by riding the shoulders of a partner

Gotta say, I hadn't picked up on the Angelina/Mike alliance at all before this episode.  It shocked me!  Yes, it did! It's tight enough so that Angelina picked Mike to share the reward challenge and so that they vote together.

Did I miss some important editing here? Or is this alliance so sub rosa that the editors haven't played it up?

If this alliance isn't being edited into the "narrative," than it must be really important. [Insert smiley face.]

Christian talks about his girlfriend in his CBS bio, so I've gotta think the girlfriend's existence was at least a casual topic around camp.  I don't think Gabby was motivated by sexual jealousy or anything.  I think she's just one of those people who carries around an enormous chip on her shoulder at all times, tries to disguise it under self-deprecation but catalogs every perceived slight.  Those types of people are prone to lashing out because they're always inwardly seething. Of course, it's always safest to lash out at people who care about her (presumably Christian) because they're the people who are typically the most vulnerable. 

Christian, though, was not particularly vulnerable to Gabby emotionally because he's somewhat emotionally detached.

I was shocked, too, by at personally Nick seemed to take Christian's "betrayal" over Carl's expulsion. Nick seems to be unraveling a bit.