S01.E07: Hold the Salt

[Vixenstud]

15 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

It just means that he was on top and she was on the filthy, dirty desk.

Where they had filthy, dirty sex....the kind men want and the kind I need.

Heh.

[ridethemaverick]

I stand with Darlene on the shoe thing. I was raised to put the guest's comfort first. If the guest insists on wearing shoes, let them (barring cultural or religious reasons). Why? Maybe they have ugly feet they're embarrassed to show. Maybe their socks don't match. Maybe THEY have a thing about germs and don't know how clean your floors are. Or maybe they're just generally more comfortable that way. 

Now the wine thing could go either way for me but I lean toward Darlene here, too. 

She's on her own with the salt :D

I thought it was a solid episode although the Jackie storyline makes me sad. But I agree that it's totally in character for her to choose a guy like...forgot his name.

Blue didn't annoy me and I found her scene very funny and germane to the story.

[Beantown Gal]

I echo others' comments in regards to Darlene being rude for salting the paella.

While Darlene was rude for not at least trying the red wine with the paella, Ben should have been a gracious host and opened the bottle of white for her.

The shoe thing I totally get, but I don't insist my guests remove their shoes if they aren't comfortable (mainly because I quickly run my swiffer steamer over the floors after they leave).

But I do wonder:

If the paella was made with vegan ingredients and Darlene was expecting it to be bland - again doesn't excuse her actions - she should have salted her own serving.

Why Ben served wine with a vegan dish since wine isn't vegan.

[Melgaypet]

25 minutes ago, ridethemaverick said:

I was raised to put the guest's comfort first.

And I was raised to be polite in another person's home. If they don't want you tracking dirt in, take off your shoes. Full disclosure: I hate it when people wear shoes in my house, and will (politely!) ask my guests to remove them. No one has ever had a problem with that, or if they did, they weren't rude enough to say so.

Clearly, lots of people have Opinions on this issue! It's rather amusing

[ridethemaverick]

14 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

And I was raised to be polite in another person's home. If they don't want you tracking dirt in, take off your shoes. Full disclosure: I hate it when people wear shoes in my house, and will (politely!) ask my guests to remove them. No one has ever had a problem with that, or if they did, they weren't rude enough to say so.

Clearly, lots of people have Opinions on this issue! It's rather amusing

Yes, obviously we all have different experiences and opinions and yes it would be rude to track mud or visible dirt in. But for me it's better to clean germs off my floor than to make a guest feel uncomfortable.

A guest usually will not tell you they're uncomfortable/you're rude but I feel strongly about this because I was a pregnant guest in someone's home and she insisted on me removing my shoes. I was embarrassed by my swollen feet and had to ask her for socks. I was polite and kept my thoughts to myself but I never set foot in her house again.

To bring this back to the show lol, Darlene was clearly uncomfortable with removing her shoes. It wouldn't have killed him to just clean up after she left. Making an issue of it just made him seem like a jerk to me. 

[BeachDays]

Not sure if I said this already but when they filmed the scene, Darlene said she likes to flavor the food while it’s cooking so it blends together versus just adding it to the top at the end.   It’s funny how much more they film than is shown, it kinda makes me want them to release a directors cut dvd lol 

And omg one more thing that I totally forgot!  When she was leaving after she put her shoes back on she rubs them all over his rug lol.   I guess they didn’t use that bc it was too childish.  

Edited December 6, 2018 by BeachDays

[link417]

3 minutes ago, BeachDays said:

Not sure if I said this already but when they filmed the scene, Darlene said she likes to flavor the food while it’s cooking so it blends together versus just adding it to the top at the end.   It’s funny how much more they film than is shown, it kinda makes me want them to release a directors cut dvd lol 

I haven’t said thanks yet for sharing your inside info from the taping —  thank you so much! 🤗 I love hearing about behind the scenes stuff and what ended up on the cutting room floor.

Now I just need you to put your life on hold and attend all future tapings :D

[BeachDays]

44 minutes ago, link417 said:

I haven’t said thanks yet for sharing your inside info from the taping —  thank you so much! 🤗 I love hearing about behind the scenes stuff and what ended up on the cutting room floor.

Now I just need you to put your life on hold and attend all future tapings :D

 

Haha you are welcome, and I wish!!! 😂

[Bastet]

Re. how dumb it is for Jackie to do what she's doing in this relationship, remember that Al Harris (Roseanne and Jackie's dad) was abusive, so that's her background, and, directly on point, that she has a long history of subjugating herself to her boyfriend when she thinks he's better than her ("too good for" her because he's better educated, has a better job, is younger ... the various things she thinks puts someone out of her league so she has to work to hang onto him) --  Gary, who didn't take advantage of it, and Fisher, who did, engaging in a wide spectrum of abusive behaviors, including physical violence.  Just because she eventually left Fisher doesn't mean she's immune from falling for the same thing again.  It's not at all uncommon for survivors of an abusive relationship to wind up in another one, especially if the subsequent abuse takes a non-physical form -- well, he's never raised a hand to me, so this isn't the same thing.  There's a lifetime of conditioning and insecurity packed into Jackie, with which age - and even the therapy she's had - may only help so much.

4 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

I stand with Darlene on the shoe thing. I was raised to put the guest's comfort first. If the guest insists on wearing shoes, let them

I agree.  I don't wear shoes in the house (not because of germ concerns, because I'm lazy about cleaning and not wearing shoes in the house means I can go longer between floor cleanings), and like when guests remove theirs, but I would never demand it.  Walking into my house with a big smear of dog shit on the bottom of your shoe is rude.  Walking in with regular street schmutz (and most people will have wiped their shoes off if you have a doormat) is not rude, so it's no problem to me.  If they don't take their shoes off, there's a reason for that, whether it's simply that they wear shoes at home and don't think about it or because they would be uncomfortable taking their shoes off for some reason, so I'm not going to welcome a guest to my home by putting them on the spot. 

If they kept dating, and she wasn't really a guest anymore, he could mention it and see if she'd mind taking them off, but barking at someone to take off their shoes the first time they come over is poor form.  I thought he was rude about the wine, too.  Darlene was totally out of line on the salt thing, though; yes, it's better to season as you cook than sprinkle it on top at the end, so do that when you are cooking.  Let him prepare the meal he has planned, and then add additional seasoning to your portion if it's bland; that's why people put salt and pepper out on the table, so guests who prefer more seasoning than average can easily add some.

[TattleTeeny]

4 hours ago, Beantown Gal said:

Why Ben served wine with a vegan dish since wine isn't vegan.

There are vegan wines. Not many whites (unfortunately for me), but a few, and many reds. Also, maybe he isn't vegan; he could be vegetarian--or just doesn't like to eat meat and seafood.

Edited December 6, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[BeachDays]

He’s definitely not a vegan, remember he wanted shrimp in a previous ep.   

[willowk]

39 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

There are vegan wines. Not many whites (unfortunately for me), but a few, and many reds. Also, maybe he isn't vegan; he could be vegetarian--or just doesn't like to eat meat and seafood.

I think he made the vegan paella for Darlene -she was the one who didn't want him to eat meat in a prior episode.

[TattleTeeny]

She did? I swear she ordered some kind of meaty thing at Becky's restaurant! Maybe I'm crazy--or just drunk on Altoid margaritas.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, willowk said:

I think he made the vegan paella for Darlene -she was the one who didn't want him to eat meat in a prior episode.

It wasn't about shrimp being meat, it was about the practices involved in catching and processing shrimp.  But she was a vegetarian from about 14 to when the show ended, and I assume she still is unless I see her eat meat, and I can't remember if she has at Becky's restaurant or at home.  Vegan, I really don't know, but I don't think so. 

All I thought was how awful vegan paella sounds (sausage and shrimp being two of my favorite things and rice being boring filler to me); I didn't think about the fact he was making it that way because of her.  I still don't like him, but that's one in the nice column for him.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Bastet

[ams1001]

9 hours ago, Ottis said:

Overall, this ep wasn't as funny as last week, but I like where they are going as they stretch characters. If the show lasts long enough for Dan to find a new love interest, THAT will be interesting.

Maybe they can get the woman who played his nurse-turned-girlfriend in Coyote Ugly. ;)

[BeachDays]

I don’t think she ordered meat at the restaurant but she did joke about it (the tilapia?) bc it was making Becky queasy.  It’s possible she is still a vegetarian but she isn’t vegan-  she was eating pizza and ice cream in this episode.   Which Sara Gilbert was snacking on during breaks in filming too, it was pretty cute.   

[Meushell]

On 12/5/2018 at 7:56 AM, Whimsy said:

I don't like red wine.  Actually, I barely like ANY wine but the only kind I can kind of tolerate is Pinot Grigio.  I really don't care about "pairing" my wine.  So, if someone insisted that I tried red wine I would 1. Think they were a wine snob and 2. Insist that I REALLY don't like red.  They WAY Darlene kept insisting on opening the white was wrong, but in principal I don't think she was wrong.  She should have asked to open both.  But, like it's been mentioned- she came into the apartment bristly and ready to fight. 

I was on her side until he just asked her to try it. Her not liking red didn’t seem to be the issue because she didn’t say that, and I don’t count her sarcastic remark. It just struck me as being defiant for the sake of being defiant. 

[BeachDays]

I think she genuinely doesn’t like red wine (lets be real, it’s like drinking Robitussin), but also she’s used to acting a certain way and getting away with it.   You do see her concede a few times, which I give her props for, but I think it was just adding up where she thought ok, I gave in with the shows, I changed the subject with the wine, now he is bugging me about the salt too??   Meanwhile Ben is like why is she fighting me every step of the way.   So I see both points of view and it’s a learning lesson for both of them.    Relationships are oftentimes difficult and take work, especially with 2 bullheaded people.   It’s nice that by the end they decided to work at it.  

[LiveenLetLive]

On 12/5/2018 at 3:59 PM, SmithW6079 said:

When did Matthew Broderick go from cute teen (Ferris Bueller, Wargames) to "Want some candy, little boy?" with a white panel van with no windows?

bwahahaha the weight gain hasn't done him any favors either

[CrystalBlue]

Darlene should've asked Ben for a beer instead.  That would have really set him off!  :D

As for the salt, I don't know really how Darlene cooks in her own kitchen, but at first I thought when she picked up the salt while she was stirring the paella, it was just out of habit.  Then when Ben stopped her, that's when she got defensive about it and the "disagreement" started.

[qtpye]

On 12/5/2018 at 8:21 AM, greekmom said:

What about Fred? Or is he being erased like Andy?  Fred actually treated Jackie pretty well till Jackie screwed that up.

Fred really brought out the worst in Jackie. The problem is that Fred was a bit of a dud in the personality department. Jackie wants a good guy with the charisma and presence of a Dan or at least a Booker. Of course I felt like every woman had a crush on John Goodman back in the day. He was the perfect blue collar teddy bear that could also make you laugh. Many ladies thought Roseanne was a very lucky woman and Jackie was never going to find another guy like him.

Edited December 7, 2018 by qtpye

[llewis823]

On 12/4/2018 at 11:42 PM, Pete Martell said:

It came across to me as both of them struggling with boundaries, and that Ben's issues with Darlene were more that she was somewhat defensive from the time she came into his apartment (thanks to her conversation with Becky) but I see what you mean. I kind of think the main reason it feels like Darlene is changing more is because she is our point of view character - Ben is just there to facilitate her storyline.  

I feel like this whole story is a setup for if Johnny Galecki can return next season - we are hearing about how Darlene gives too little and David gave too much. I could see the "new" David and Darlene reconciling. 

In the last episode thread, I told how my husband and I have been together since we were 14/15 years old. How we separated for 7 months, dated other people and found out how life would have been apart and ended up reconciling and having a better relationship than we ever have. However, I did not tell you why we split up. I was always the controlling one - granted I was also the more mature one who knew how the world works so besides just being the alpha, my husband always LET me be the alpha, too. But as he grew up and matured and started to become more "worldly", I kept being controlling. And it finally got to him. And that was why he left - not for someone else, - but because I was a control freak. 

Ironically when he dated someone else during that 7 months, she looked very much like me and even more interesting, she made me look like an amateur at being a control freak! LOL  Me, on the other hand, went the opposite route - I ended up in a relationship with a guy like Ben - another alpha. It was very exciting, but also a major learning experience for me. I had never relinquished control before that. And as Juliette Lewis's character Blue put it "Let someone else drive the bus, hold the reins, etc. - you might like it". And for the most part, I did like it. 

So when hubby & I reconciled, I told him I wanted him to have more control and take the reins more, etc. as part of our reconciliation agreement we wrote up. (not legal - just for us) And I'm still the alpha, but not to the point of controlling him and he also steps up to the plate now too. I think maybe they really are going for this scenario with David and Darlene (especially with BBT ending this year).

Edited December 7, 2018 by llewis823

[Lili]

Pretty good episode. Darlene's relationship with her boss has been interesting, to say the least.

[Oosala]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 3:59 PM, SmithW6079 said:

When did Matthew Broderick go from cute teen (Ferris Bueller, Wargames) to "Want some candy, little boy?" with a white panel van with no windows?

Yeah, he was horrible in this episode.  He let the mask slip.  Of course Broderick did kill two people IRL.  He was on vacation in Ireland and they think he was driving on the right side of the road (which , over there, is the wrong side of the road) and smashed head-on into another car.  Don't know what his punishment was.

Anyway, Jackie needs to dump this chump and show some growth for once.  If Darlene can do it, so can Jackie.

[Pallas]

Even though his character is very broad, I thought Broderick was exceptional. I know that guy. He's the perpetual student who lectures everyone as if they're "his" undergraduates. His playful pomposity? The little twinkle he gave to the word "dance" in describing his new Nordic field of study? The bemused air with which he performs listening to other people as he (almost) awaits his turn to speak? Because there must be nothing about discourse that doesn't make him look interesting.

But where he got me was the barely wary, eyes-down, slowed-down way he approached the bar stool next to Dan. There he gave a glimpse of a calculating and even formidable con man. Who may or may not fully know that's who he is. The last person to give up on his potential, but when he did, he felt he had nothing left to lose. 

I think what throws off the performance is how contained it is -- how to me, it seems geared not for the stage but for close-ups: something that doesn't happen much in a three-camera sitcom. 

[deSchenke]

On the topic of Darlene and Ben at his apartment, if he wants guests to remove their shoes before entering, that is his right.  When I visit someone and notice a pair (or multiple pairs) of shoes near the entrance, my eyes go right to the host's feet.  If they are in socks, I ask if they want me to remove my shoes.  That's being a polite guest.

On the subject of wine, if your guest doesn't care for the drink you are serving and it's obvious you have an alternative that they would like, you open the bottle for them.  You don't force your likes upon them.  I'm not terribly fussed about wine and food pairings, others might be.  But they should never insist you drink their selection if there is an alternative.

On the subject of salting food...  If I was stirring the paella and tasted it, thinking it needed salt, I would ask.  "Hey, do you think this could use a bit of salt?"  You really shouldn't just grab the salt shaker.  Even if it was habit for Darlene, she should have conceded as soon as Ben objected.  I was more worried that Ben was going to be weirded out by her tasting off of the stirring spoon.  You don't taste something in front of someone and put the spoon (now full of your germs) back into the pot!

[peacheslatour]

Quote

You don't taste something in front of someone and put the spoon (now full of your germs) back into the pot!

Right. You wait until no one is looking, then you taste with the stirring spoon.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

I think she genuinely doesn’t like red wine (lets be real, it’s like drinking Robitussin)

I liken it to putting a damp yet musty old red velvet curtain into your mouth!

[Reality police]

20 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

I liken it to putting a damp yet musty old red velvet curtain into your mouth!

Hey now, there are some tasty reds! Each to his own.

[TattleTeeny]

Haha, don't go by me--I like that wine in a box with a spout that goes in the refrigerator (and I am not above putting seltzer in it!). Also, I am a Bud Lite Lime amongst beer-snob friends!

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Haha, don't go by me--I like that wine in a box with a spout that goes in the refrigerator (and I am not above putting seltzer in it!). Also, I am a Bud Lite Lime amongst beer-snob friends!

My mom orders wine with a side of ice cubes.

[CrystalBlue]

7 hours ago, Reality police said:

Hey now, there are some tasty reds! Each to his own.

I grew up drinking red wine at the dinner table but I prefer whites now.  There are some great and awful wines in each category.  Not all of them taste alike!  Some wines contain ingredients which cause people to get headaches, or just don't agree with some people.  If someone has had a bad experience with a certain wine and ascribe it to it being a red, white, whatever, they might just be turned off from drinking it.  If you're hosting a date, the idea is to turn them on, not off!  Hee hee.

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

My mom orders wine with a side of ice cubes.

I like my white wine cold, cold, cold!

[deSchenke]

20 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Right. You wait until no one is looking, then you taste with the stirring spoon.

Exactly!

[festivus]

21 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Right. You wait until no one is looking, then you taste with the stirring spoon.

That made me laugh but EWW! I thought that's what he was going to get mad about, Darlene about to put the spoon back in, that the salt thing went right over my head until I was reading here and was like, oh yeah, that was rude. (I'm not really a germaphobe but I have bodily fluid phobia, whatever that's called) As far as the wine thing, I would have just requested water because I don't like red wine and drinking with dinner is not a thing for me anyway. But I understand that Darlene was acting the way she was because of that talk with Becky before.

[Nordly Beaumont]

I've never understood why it's icky to double dip or put a tasting spoon back when the folks involved are having sex. Talk about your bodily fluid swaps!

[Browncoat]

Ben said he would have preferred Darlene to salt the food at the table, but I'd bet good money (if I had any) that he would have been pissed off about that too.  And honestly, with a very few exceptions, you shouldn't have to season anything after it's prepared.

I prefer red wine to white, although there are some reasonable whites.  I despise sweet wines, though, regardless of color.  I would have thought that traditional paella would call for a white, being primarily seafood, so I was confused why Ben was insisting that a red was the best pairing.

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, Browncoat said:

I would have thought that traditional paella would call for a white, being primarily seafood, so I was confused why Ben was insisting that a red was the best pairing.

It was vegan paella, so no seafood: Ben spoke of how the red paired with the tomato sauce. 

[janie jones]

23 hours ago, deSchenke said:

On the topic of Darlene and Ben at his apartment, if he wants guests to remove their shoes before entering, that is his right.  When I visit someone and notice a pair (or multiple pairs) of shoes near the entrance, my eyes go right to the host's feet.  If they are in socks, I ask if they want me to remove my shoes.  That's being a polite guest.

I agree.  And I think regardless of whether or not it's rude for the host to ask guests to take off their shoes, it's more rude not to comply.  It's like refusing to use a coaster after they give you a coaster.

 

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

Ben said he would have preferred Darlene to salt the food at the table, but I'd bet good money (if I had any) that he would have been pissed off about that too.  And honestly, with a very few exceptions, you shouldn't have to season anything after it's prepared.

Not necessarily, I don't think.  I wouldn't want someone to salt something I was cooking, but that's because I don't like salty food.  Put salt on your own food, don't salt mine.  Salting the pot after someone else says they don't want more salt in it is like reaching across the table and salting their food.

[ams1001]

11 minutes ago, janie jones said:

Not necessarily, I don't think.  I wouldn't want someone to salt something I was cooking, but that's because I don't like salty food.  Put salt on your own food, don't salt mine.  Salting the pot after someone else says they don't want more salt in it is like reaching across the table and salting their food.

Exactly. Different people like different levels of spice. Err on the side of less, especially if it's something easily added after cooking.

[Browncoat]

I was thinking more in terms of his being alpha and controlling rather than actually caring when the food was salted.

[jewel21]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 6:55 PM, Cindyluwho said:

You obviously never watch Young and Restless, where office desks, couches, kitchen islands and elevators have replaced beds completely.  And yes...eeewwww!!!

And staircases. My back hurts just thinking about it. 

[andipandi]

shoes: if being on her feet as a waitress has given darlene plantar fascitis or other painful foot ailments, taking shoes off is painful and bad. Doctors tell you to wear shoes everywhere, with inserts. Even if someone has little house flip flops to share, they don't have support.

wine: ben was being an ass.

salt: spicing someone else's cooking is a "living together/known each other years" freedom.

[jewel21]

In regards to the shoe removal, I will do it if someone asks, but I hate it. I've occasionally been known to wear socks with holes in them, and sometimes my feet have been in shoes all day and sweaty. Feet stink. Personally, I'd rather people keep their shoes on, thank you very much. 

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, jewel21 said:

In regards to the shoe removal, I will do it if someone asks, but I hate it. I've occasionally been known to wear socks with holes in them, and sometimes my feet have been in shoes all day and sweaty. Feet stink. Personally, I'd rather people keep their shoes on, thank you very much. 

Same here.

[janie jones]

2 hours ago, andipandi said:

shoes: if being on her feet as a waitress has given darlene plantar fascitis or other painful foot ailments, taking shoes off is painful and bad. Doctors tell you to wear shoes everywhere, with inserts. Even if someone has little house flip flops to share, they don't have support.

I don't know about Darlene's boss, but if you cite a medical reason for needing to wear shoes, I think most non-shoe people will not oppose you wearing your shoes.  Nothing Darlene said or did indicated that it was anything other than simply not wanting to take the shoes off.

[CrystalBlue]

6 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Ben said he would have preferred Darlene to salt the food at the table, but I'd bet good money (if I had any) that he would have been pissed off about that too.  And honestly, with a very few exceptions, you shouldn't have to season anything after it's prepared.

I prefer red wine to white, although there are some reasonable whites.  I despise sweet wines, though, regardless of color.  I would have thought that traditional paella would call for a white, being primarily seafood, so I was confused why Ben was insisting that a red was the best pairing.

Yep, dollars to donuts.

Agree with the seasoning.  Hey!  At least Darlene didn't ask where's the Mrs. Dash!

I hate sweet wines too; only sweet thing I like to drink is Coke or Pepsi.  I drink my iced tea unsweetened.

Ben thought red wine goes with tomato sauce.  I guess it does, but still, it's a rice dish, so either would go, in my humble opinion with no particular wine pairing expertise.  :D

[peacheslatour]

58 minutes ago, janie jones said:

I don't know about Darlene's boss, but if you cite a medical reason for needing to wear shoes, I think most non-shoe people will not oppose you wearing your shoes.  Nothing Darlene said or did indicated that it was anything other than simply not wanting to take the shoes off.

Yep, David was too afraid of her to ever tell her what to do. She's not accustomed to men asserting themselves with her. I hope she realizes that being in control all the time is not the way to build relationships with normal people.

[CrystalBlue]

3 hours ago, Browncoat said:

I was thinking more in terms of his being alpha and controlling rather than actually caring when the food was salted.

This.  If you're gonna invite someone into your kitchen to help you cook, then you have to deal with that person's cooking methods.  Don't tell them they're doing it wrong.  No one will die (unless it's a bona fide food allergy).  

3 hours ago, andipandi said:

shoes: if being on her feet as a waitress has given darlene plantar fascitis or other painful foot ailments, taking shoes off is painful and bad. Doctors tell you to wear shoes everywhere, with inserts. Even if someone has little house flip flops to share, they don't have support.

wine: ben was being an ass.

salt: spicing someone else's cooking is a "living together/known each other years" freedom.

Which since they've already become sexually intimate with each other, should give a little leeway into the my house/my rules thing.

[SmithW6079]

3 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Which since they've already become sexually intimate with each other, should give a little leeway into the my house/my rules thing.

Maybe in the days when having sex meant something more than a "pleased to make your acquaintance" ice breaker.

[auntiemel]

Weighing in on the Great Shoes Debate :)

For me, I don't take my shoes off in front of people. It's just not a level of intimacy I'm comfortable with. Even if I've had fun naked times with that person, taking my shoes off in front of them during a non-"heat of passion" moment is something I just don't do. Since having shoes off in houses has become more of a thing, I actually carry slippers in my purse when I go to a new person's house just in case. They've come in handy. If someone had an issue with my slippers, honestly, I'd probably just leave. Yes it's their house, their rules. But it's also my feet, my rules. :D That's the great thing about being adults and in charge of ourselves. No one can tell someone they have to allow shoes in their house, and no one can tell anyone they have to stay in a house they feel uncomfortable in. If that's not freedom, I don't know what is!

PS - Another point about the general concept of insisting someone take off their shoes: there have been a lot of reasons listed here about why people may not want to - don't like the way their feet are looking, mismatched socks or holes in the socks, or (like me) just plain don't feel comfortable doing it. But a more serious one that some people have is that, for some survivors of sexual assault, being basically ordered to take off an article of clothing (even something as innocuous to most people as shoes), especially being made to feel as if they have no choice in the matter, can feel traumatic.

With as high a statistical instance of the population as sexual violence affects, even if I had that rule, I wouldn't want to take a chance that I was bringing up past pain for a guest the instant they walk into my house. That's not the beginnings of a great evening for them, and I feel a big responsibility to make sure people I welcome into my home feel valued and well-taken care of. As a hostess, I feel like they've honored me by accepting my invitation and choosing to spend their time with me. I want to return that honor by making them feel at home in the way that feels like hospitality to THEM, not me. It's not about me.

It's like that old Love Languages book. I need to express love (hospitality) in their language, not mine. Otherwise what I'm extending isn't an invitation, it's an obligation.

Anyway, not saying any of that applies to Darlene. I agree she was feeling prickly and combative and it came out via shoes-wine-salt.