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S01.E07: Hold the Salt

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Weighing in on the Great Shoes Debate :)

For me, I don't take my shoes off in front of people. It's just not a level of intimacy I'm comfortable with. Even if I've had fun naked times with that person, taking my shoes off in front of them during a non-"heat of passion" moment is something I just don't do. Since having shoes off in houses has become more of a thing, I actually carry slippers in my purse when I go to a new person's house just in case. They've come in handy. If someone had an issue with my slippers, honestly, I'd probably just leave. Yes it's their house, their rules. But it's also my feet, my rules. :D That's the great thing about being adults and in charge of ourselves. No one can tell someone they have to allow shoes in their house, and no one can tell anyone they have to stay in a house they feel uncomfortable in. If that's not freedom, I don't know what is!

PS - Another point about the general concept of insisting someone take off their shoes: there have been a lot of reasons listed here about why people may not want to - don't like the way their feet are looking, mismatched socks or holes in the socks, or (like me) just plain don't feel comfortable doing it. But a more serious one that some people have is that, for some survivors of sexual assault, being basically ordered to take off an article of clothing (even something as innocuous to most people as shoes), especially being made to feel as if they have no choice in the matter, can feel traumatic.

With as high a statistical instance of the population as sexual violence affects, even if I had that rule, I wouldn't want to take a chance that I was bringing up past pain for a guest the instant they walk into my house. That's not the beginnings of a great evening for them, and I feel a big responsibility to make sure people I welcome into my home feel valued and well-taken care of. As a hostess, I feel like they've honored me by accepting my invitation and choosing to spend their time with me. I want to return that honor by making them feel at home in the way that feels like hospitality to THEM, not me. It's not about me.

It's like that old Love Languages book. I need to express love (hospitality) in their language, not mine. Otherwise what I'm extending isn't an invitation, it's an obligation.

Anyway, not saying any of that applies to Darlene. I agree she was feeling prickly and combative and it came out via shoes-wine-salt.

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22 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

Maybe in the days when having sex meant something more than a "pleased to make your acquaintance" ice breaker.

You mean in the 50s?  LOL.  Don't forget the Swinging Sixties, Free Love, the Sexual Revolution, the 80s and Gay Pride with the LGBTQ Etc. movement.  Shows you how old I am!  :D  J/K, I do know what you mean.  Again, shows you how old I am.  ;)

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2 hours ago, auntiemel said:

Weighing in on the Great Shoes Debate :)

For me, I don't take my shoes off in front of people. It's just not a level of intimacy I'm comfortable with. Even if I've had fun naked times with that person, taking my shoes off in front of them during a non-"heat of passion" moment is something I just don't do. Since having shoes off in houses has become more of a thing, I actually carry slippers in my purse when I go to a new person's house just in case. They've come in handy. If someone had an issue with my slippers, honestly, I'd probably just leave. Yes it's their house, their rules. But it's also my feet, my rules. :D That's the great thing about being adults and in charge of ourselves. No one can tell someone they have to allow shoes in their house, and no one can tell anyone they have to stay in a house they feel uncomfortable in. If that's not freedom, I don't know what is!

PS - Another point about the general concept of insisting someone take off their shoes: there have been a lot of reasons listed here about why people may not want to - don't like the way their feet are looking, mismatched socks or holes in the socks, or (like me) just plain don't feel comfortable doing it. But a more serious one that some people have is that, for some survivors of sexual assault, being basically ordered to take off an article of clothing (even something as innocuous to most people as shoes), especially being made to feel as if they have no choice in the matter, can feel traumatic.

With as high a statistical instance of the population as sexual violence affects, even if I had that rule, I wouldn't want to take a chance that I was bringing up past pain for a guest the instant they walk into my house. That's not the beginnings of a great evening for them, and I feel a big responsibility to make sure people I welcome into my home feel valued and well-taken care of. As a hostess, I feel like they've honored me by accepting my invitation and choosing to spend their time with me. I want to return that honor by making them feel at home in the way that feels like hospitality to THEM, not me. It's not about me.

It's like that old Love Languages book. I need to express love (hospitality) in their language, not mine. Otherwise what I'm extending isn't an invitation, it's an obligation.

Anyway, not saying any of that applies to Darlene. I agree she was feeling prickly and combative and it came out via shoes-wine-salt.

What a great post!  I agree and live by your philosophy, but I'm just a run-of-the-mill American who grew up in Southern California.  I don't pretend to be Asian or have their shoes-in-homes customs and cultural traditions.  As far as germs and dirt go, it's the floor.  People need to walk on it.  Most people are acquainted with the doormat and wiping their shoes (and paws) at the entrance.  That's why some homes have "the mudroom."  It's been my experience when servicemen come over, a lot of the companies require them to put on paper booties (like they use on CSI) for their customers' comfort.  I appreciate that.

I don't carry slippers with me but if I were to encounter these types of people I probably would, or make sure I was wearing socks if I could with my outfit.  I would not like to be told to take off my shoes and then have to walk barefoot on someone else's floor, and I keep my feet covered in socks or slippers when at home.

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How about if next time Darlene and Ben (two grown-ass people) get to know each other a wee bit before the filthy desk business happens?  Then there might be less chance of them being surprised by the no-shoes-in-the-house, don't-salt-my-food policies, or the you-must-drink-red-wine imperatives.  They are essentially two strangers AND they work together, two reasons why they should both have cut each other a little slack on this first social gathering.  If you just want to have the odd bonging session and not get serious, that's fine, but make up your mind.  (and P.S. Darlene, you dummy, don't sleep with your boss, sigh).

 

I’m liking having Becky on the show and am waiting to see where this motherhood thing takes her.  She is way more messed up than I ever expected this character to be and I don't know where she's going to end up from week to week.  But I’m not always loving the actress, Lecy…and no offense to her.  I just find her so over the top…like she shouts her lines AT her fellow actors, not to them, you know what I mean?  With a really weird affect.  It’s so jarring.  I thought maybe it might be that she was away from acting for a long time and needed time for the kinks to be smoothed out.  But now I remember that she kind of always had that acting style.  Anyway, overall I'm still glad she's there.

 

I'm glad they seem to have dialed down Jackie's over-the-top craziness since the first season...I couldn't stand to see her on screen those first few shows last season.  I have to keep telling myself this is a reboot and that I just have to accept that there will be differences in the characters. 

 

To be honest, I wasn't sure I'd like the show without Roseanne (not that I thought she by herself brought anything special to last season - the character was too uneven for me, and besides I loved the original incarnation of Roseanne from way back).  But I am getting enough laughs from The Conners that I'll stick with it for now.

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Yeah, Darlene sleeping with her boss does not bode well for her future.  Things will probably go south at some point, and she'll be out of a job, not able to go back to the casino because of how she left there.  With two children to support, and at her age, the wisdom of the insta-attraction let's-get-it-on relationship seems to be just as stupid as Becky being in her situation and now pregnant.  I'm hoping for the best for Becky's baby though, and hope she doesn't give it up for adoption to predatory lesbian couples or anyone else.

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5 hours ago, OhSarah69 said:

How about if next time Darlene and Ben (two grown-ass people) get to know each other a wee bit before the filthy desk business happens?  Then there might be less chance of them being surprised by the no-shoes-in-the-house, don't-salt-my-food policies, or the you-must-drink-red-wine imperatives.  They are essentially two strangers AND they work together, two reasons why they should both have cut each other a little slack on this first social gathering.  If you just want to have the odd bonging session and not get serious, that's fine, but make up your mind.  (and P.S. Darlene, you dummy, don't sleep with your boss, sigh).

 

 

I think both Neil (like David) and Ben (opposite of David) are reactionary-   It’s more that she wants a relationship and to move on than being interested in those particular guys.  She even says it herself in this episode, thinking that’s what Becky is going to tell her.   

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On 12/8/2018 at 3:40 PM, CrystalBlue said:

Ben thought red wine goes with tomato sauce.  I guess it does, but still, it's a rice dish, so either would go, in my humble opinion with no particular wine pairing expertise.  :D

In general, reds are stronger than whites, and should be paired with spicier or more savory meals (steaks, marinara, anything with jalapenos,,,).  Whites go well with lighter meals, like alfredo, fish or seafood.  Vegan paella is enough on the borderline (depending on how strong the tomato sauce is), that either would probably work.  However, whites are best chilled, so one could be served if dinner wasn't for at least a half an hour (preferably more).  [Wine pairings go into a lot more depth than this, but this basic approach has worked well for me.]

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On Wednesday, December 05, 2018 at 1:42 PM, Bastet said:

But she came very close to living with Jimmy.  You don't move in with a romantic partner you haven't even reached the sex stage of the relationship with.

And David ran out on her a long time ago; she hasn't had sex with anyone in that entire time?  I can buy her not being ready for a boyfriend until recently, but not a decade or whatever without sex.

Lots of people do this. Especially women who cling to being "independent" after divorce. I have a friend who has only ever slept with her ex husband and they got divorced the same time I did, 6 years ago. She's never even come close to flirting with someone much less a date.

 

So I think it happens way more than you'd think.

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On 12/5/2018 at 1:42 PM, Bastet said:

And David ran out on her a long time ago; she hasn't had sex with anyone in that entire time?  I can buy her not being ready for a boyfriend until recently, but not a decade or whatever without sex.

I can see it, too.  Being a single working mother is exhausting (no energy for sex) and for years the kids were young enough to probably meet her emotional needs with hugs and snuggles.  But they're older now and sleeping with David likely was a reminder of things she was missing in her life.  

Sleeping with your boss though... I suppose the consent as foreplay is progress but the man still controls her (now only) paycheck.  It's gross, even though I like the guy. 

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6 hours ago, Ragingviolet said:

Lots of people do this. Especially women who cling to being "independent" after divorce. I have a friend who has only ever slept with her ex husband and they got divorced the same time I did, 6 years ago. She's never even come close to flirting with someone much less a date.

 

So I think it happens way more than you'd think.

Agree.   One of my friends has been divorced over 20 years and said the idea of another man makes her feel like she is cheating on ex husband...forget that they divorced because of him cheating on her.

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28 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Agree.   One of my friends has been divorced over 20 years and said the idea of another man makes her feel like she is cheating on ex husband...forget that they divorced because of him cheating on her.

 

This reminds me of the David ep actually-   He said it will be weird not being married to her, and she said something about the fact that he was living with another woman would have made it weird.   It does seem like he thought separated meant separated and she thought separated was still married.  

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I'm not sure David thought it, as much as he let himself be carried along by the stronger current, then alternately feared for the best and feared for the worst. I think of something @Melancholy recently wrote in the Buffy forum about the character Xander:

Quote

I think his parents really f*cked him up and messed with his confidence...As a result, Xander has big problems going out and trying for stuff that will make him happy but instead, settled for what lands in his lap. He does a heck of job making what lands in his lap livable with a constant smile and eagerness to help others but it's a sad life set up by abuse at home.

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I really hope he does get therapy and it helps.  David is such a good guy with so much potential.   Again you see it in his episode.   I’m not saying this is amazing for any real life person, but in past Roseanne eps there are jokes about Dan not knowing the kids teachers names.  David never met Mark’s teacher but made it a point to know her name.   The ep was littered with things like this that show he genuinely wants to be here for his kids.   Even the “I need this job” comment was said helplessly, like he needs to make money but he wishes he could be with his kids.  But he needs more help than him just trying to navigate yet falling victim to being pushed around by others.   

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On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 4:07 PM, CrystalBlue said:

Yeah, Darlene sleeping with her boss does not bode well for her future.  Things will probably go south at some point, and she'll be out of a job, not able to go back to the casino because of how she left there.  With two children to support, and at her age, the wisdom of the insta-attraction let's-get-it-on relationship seems to be just as stupid as Becky being in her situation and now pregnant.  I'm hoping for the best for Becky's baby though, and hope she doesn't give it up for adoption to predatory lesbian couples or anyone else.

People can sleep with their boss and things be fine as long as both are adults. The boss being willing to talk through uncomfortable moments with her bodes well for them being able to move on when it's over.

 

Things like this happen all the time without both parties imploding. Relationships end and it can be fine after that.

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4 hours ago, Ragingviolet said:

People can sleep with their boss and things be fine as long as both are adults. The boss being willing to talk through uncomfortable moments with her bodes well for them being able to move on when it's over.

 

Things like this happen all the time without both parties imploding. Relationships end and it can be fine after that.

We are talking about a sitcom here and not true life stories.  I was taking into account the fact that The Conners is a sitcom with serious issues also being discussed, and that Darlene is a fictional character with her new boss being another fictional character, and that unless Darlene and Ben run off and get married and live happily ever after, notwithstanding David is still the father of her two children, that things will probably not work out well for Darlene.

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20 hours ago, Ragingviolet said:

People can sleep with their boss and things be fine as long as both are adults. The boss being willing to talk through uncomfortable moments with her bodes well for them being able to move on when it's over.

 

Things like this happen all the time without both parties imploding. Relationships end and it can be fine after that.

Yes, I get your point, but adults don't always make the best choices.  I think there is something to be said for keeping work and after-work life separate (I know there are exceptions and am not by any means saying don't have fun....but to me, a boss is a boss and not your special I-saw-your-undies-pal.  I would never want anyone to have that kind of power over me in the workplace where I go to earn my daily beans, you know?.  Your mileage may vary).   I'm not concerned about Darlene's relationship ending (besides, they're not in a relationship yet, in my opinion).  I'm concerned that a single parent with very few job prospects quits her previous job and lucks into another...and then sleeps with the boss.  If it all goes pear-shaped, as the Brits say, what if she loses her job?  Or finds it so horrible to be in the same room that she quits?  I agree with BeachDays' suggestion that Darlene doesn't necessarily like or want Ben, but wants to be in a relationship of some kind.  I get it.  Life gets lonely sometimes and we all don't live by the same rules.  But can Darlene not show us some growth?  I get that she's a sitcom character and that I shouldn't really be yelling at the TV.

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8 hours ago, OhSarah69 said:

Yes, I get your point, but adults don't always make the best choices.  I think there is something to be said for keeping work and after-work life separate (I know there are exceptions and am not by any means saying don't have fun....but to me, a boss is a boss and not your special I-saw-your-undies-pal.  I would never want anyone to have that kind of power over me in the workplace where I go to earn my daily beans, you know?.  Your mileage may vary).   I'm not concerned about Darlene's relationship ending (besides, they're not in a relationship yet, in my opinion).  I'm concerned that a single parent with very few job prospects quits her previous job and lucks into another...and then sleeps with the boss.  If it all goes pear-shaped, as the Brits say, what if she loses her job?  Or finds it so horrible to be in the same room that she quits?  I agree with BeachDays' suggestion that Darlene doesn't necessarily like or want Ben, but wants to be in a relationship of some kind.  I get it.  Life gets lonely sometimes and we all don't live by the same rules.  But can Darlene not show us some growth?  I get that she's a sitcom character and that I shouldn't really be yelling at the TV.

Dude...if you've never been a single lonely mom you just might not get it. Those kinds of connections are rare and delving into them makes you be more mature when they end.

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I don't like the boss character, so this episode was a dud for me.  I did like the Darlene/Becky conversation, though.  

The evil boyfriend stuff needed to be developed a little more slowly.  

Overall, I didn't get any laughs in this episode.

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On 12/13/2018 at 8:29 PM, Camera One said:

The evil boyfriend stuff needed to be developed a little more slowly.  

Maybe its the nostalgia of seeing Matthew Broderick, but I think he played that character perfectly.  

The smarmy intellectual, who can't even pay his own bills.  Contrasted with Dan, who went in to work every day, grinding it out so he could support his family.

Peter said he could win a battle of wits against Dan, but Peter forgot that Dan has been sparring with Roseanne for years.

"You told him you would loofah his face with the brick wall?"

Bhahahahahahaha!  Reminds me of when Dan had to straighten out Fisher years ago.

Edited by TheLastKidPicked
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