S04.E03: Man of Steel

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

Through a series of incidents, and input from his anti-alien father, Ben Lockwood slowly transforms from a mild-mannered professor into the villainous Agent Liberty.

[bettername2come]

Spent the entire episode chanting "Take her to Barry's earth, take her to Barry's earth. Get the breach opener from her apartment and take her to Barry's earth."

[Pepper the Cat]

4 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Spent the entire episode chanting "Take her to Barry's earth, take her to Barry's earth. Get the breach opener from her apartment and take her to Barry's earth."

Oh, that’s good. I never thought of that!!

[cambridgeguy]

Let's see, aliens have apparently been living very openly for at least a few years, and yet it's only now that Kara and friends are aware of serious anti-alien sentiment?  What took so long?

[mxc90]

Man of Steel? Did anyone call Clark to see if he’s OK? Or his assistance before Lena?

James was out of character by the way he dismissed Ben for a phone call from Lena. I know he’s smitten but he could have been a little professional.

I liked the first half of Ben’s story but the second half felt rushed.

Edited October 29, 2018 by mxc90

[catrice2]

What a wasted episode

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well that was depressing and a waste.

[mtlchick]

I....did not like that one much.  Maybe because of the real political climate in the U.S., but I am getting very worn down on the variations of "immigrants and aliens" (in a figure of speech way) in TV shows.  This was no exception.

[tennisgurl]

The Ballad of the Angry White Guy. 

Seriously though, I did think that was an interesting episode, sort of seeing how aliens have affected the lives of the common folk, and seeing big events from the perspective of "normal" people was kind of cool, and I think it did add some context to the anti-alien stuff and some of their issues. However, I thought that to achieve that, it seemed like not only did Ben Lockwood have to go from nice, mild mannered professor to raving racist nutball in just a few scenes in the last half of the episode, they also had to have most of the main characters kind of act like assholes to get their point across. Like, no way would Jimmy be so dismissive of the guy so he could go and chat with his girlfriend.  

I missed the main cast mostly though, and spent a lot of time wishing they could show up again. 

[Lady Calypso]

That was....an ok episode, I guess, to set up the villain but...I just don't have much to say at all since it was pretty standard. I guess, with last season having Reign's backstory being spread out throughout the season, it was odd to go back to the Origin Flashback Episode, especially being earlier than usual. 

I get some of what they were portraying with Lockwood and I guess it made a point but why did people like Alex and James have to turn into assholes in order to achieve that? Are they typically pretentious assholes to people while on missions? Alex, especially, was being a real jerk to Ben in the ambulance. 

That's really all I have to say, since there's not much TO say. I did like the mention of Winn with the flashbacks, so that was neat. I liked seeing the Cat Grant press conference stuff. 

....yeah. That's it, I guess.

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, mxc90 said:

Man of Steel? Did anyone call Clark to see if he’s OK? Or his assistance before Lena?

I liked the first half of Ben’s story but the second half felt rushed.

 

I guess Supes is still on Argo.

Agreed, the first half of Ben's story was better. History professor on a run of bad luck in the family was an ok backstory, but having Ben interact with all the major characters in 2 years seems a bit ridiculous -- all they needed was for Ben to run into Sam and Ruby in the mall and Mon-el at a bar to complete the bingo card.

Glad to see Sam Witwer on the TV screen, even if his character has taken the turn to the dark side (he may have saved Jensen, but he did kill an alien with a pipe).

44 minutes ago, Tasha Brand said:

I guess it was important to show the origins of Agent Liberty, but I was so incredibly bored throughout most of the episode.

That said, I think this could make for an interesting story going forward.  Ben/Agent Liberty has a legitimate beef with nearly all of the main cast (save for Brainy and Nia, but you just know he'll hate them, too, when he realizes that they're also aliens), which is a very effective way to set up a villain.  He actually might be the first villain to be affected by nearly the entire main cast.  So at least that's something.

And he stopped Mercy and Otis from killing Jensen, at least, so that's another something.  He's not a total monster, at least.

On a final note, I see Xander Berkeley got to land on his feet, after all, after leaving The Walking Dead.  But he had to play yet another douche of a character.

I just didn't buy into the whole Pa Lockewood, successful steel mill owner schtick.  He acted like he worked on the floor instead of owning the place.

If Nth metal steel is so valuable a commodity, would they really waste it on whiteboard trays ?  That's what aluminum is for.

Two years ago, was the DEO still pretending to be the FBI ?

Still don't understand how Lena does not look down at Supergirl and realize it's Kara.  Come on Lena, you aren't that dumb.

As mentioned upthread, they just need to get Kara to another Earth until the kryptonite radiation dissipates -- why is no one calling Cisco to vibe her out of there ?  Or Barry ? Or somehow get a hold of Gypsy ?  Or just put Kara in a submersible underwater completely isolated from the atmosphere.
I think the writers really dropped the ball on this since no one came up with any other possible solutions.  Now Kara looks like a cross between Captain America and the robot from the 'Lost in Space' reboot.

Even though Sam is in Metropolis, shouldn't she also be susceptible to the kryptonite radiation (if it is indeed world-wide) ?  As well as any remaining survivors of Fort Rozz ?

Edited October 29, 2018 by ottoDbusdriver

[tennisgurl]

23 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

but having Ben interact with all the major characters in 2 years seems a bit ridiculous -- all they needed was for Ben to run into Sam and Ruby in the mall and Mon-el at a bar to complete the bingo card.

Yeah, that was kind of hilarious. It was like watching Forrest Gump if everyone was a dick. 

Whats also hilarious? That stupid robot mask. How are people, especially anti alien people, supposed to blindly follow some guy who looks so obviously like some kind of Doctor Who villain? Its less of a villain costume and more like a crappy Alpha cosplay. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well I do think Ben is a total monster because he killed the floor manager who accidentally shot a spear into Ben’s shoulder. And he killed that other alien from J’onn’s support group. 

And I’m sure his son, George, is his number one fan. Though George seemed to like Supergirl (his belief she would save them), yet considered all other aliens “roaches” as his grandpappy did. Wife just seemed a non-entity.

I don’t know if I’m up to watching a season filled of hate and bigotry. I watch shows for escapism, not to reflect reality.

Edited October 29, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[statsgirl]

Setting aside the obvious holes (why couldn't Supergirl go to another Earth? Did no one notice the anti-alien feelings? Did no one care?) I liked the episode. With all there superhero shows, I'm getting very tired of the one dimensional villain who shows up, is evil, and the only storyline is the fighting ( Rhea and Diaz, I'm looking at you). I enjoyed getting a more complex look at the season's villain because the twins are just the one-dimensional kind of villain I hate.  It wasn't perfect but I liked the build-up from a professor who was okay with aliens to the one who bombed the steel factory that he thought destroyed his father.

 So congrats to the writers Rob Wright and Derek Simon.  They've got me wanting to study the inclusion of aliens into the predominant culture until Viktor Orban shuts me down.

Bonus points for a very cute Cat Grant inclusion.

I'm not impressed by Ben Franklin, He was "All men are created equal."  Unless they're women or aren't member of the White race.

[Lantern7]

Doctor Who: Here's an episode featuring a character that's a lot like a certain person in the news. Beat that.

Supergirl: (belching loudly) Hold my beer. This is gonna get ugly.

I don't think there's going to be an ending to this story where everybody understands everybody else. This episode was . . . is mawkish the right word? Way too heavy-handed. Hellboy's heavy hand heavy-handed. Basically, some schmuck turns into a grassroots terrorist in the span of a few years . . . and on a few points, you can't blame him. I'm not being contrary for the mere sake of it. J'onn beats down an alien, crashing through a family home. He shouts "YOU'RE SAFE!" He flies off . . . .and the house is ablaze about a second later. Probably not J'onn's fault, but I would hope the concept of "collateral damage" is driven into their heads. Agent Liberty is an asshole, but he's a bad kind . .. the kind that had ridiculous bad breaks turn him evil.

And yeah, isn't there a solution to Kara's crisis where "ship her to another universe" isn't the best option? I imagine the team debating it, looking at a clock that says "COUNTDOWN TO NEXT ARROWVERSE CROSSOVER," seeing that "Elseworlds" is a ways off, then start thinking up other methods.

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Whats also hilarious? That stupid robot mask. How are people, especially anti alien people, supposed to blindly follow some guy who looks so obviously like some kind of Doctor Who villain? Its less of a villain costume and more like a crappy Alpha Cosplay. 

You mean Omega? You know, I see a resemblance. Now I'm imagining the Third Doctor repeatedly judo-flipping Agent Liberty in a mental landscape.

And before I forget: I kinda miss Cat. I think this season's problem is too big for her, but she could knock it down to size and deliver choice snark in the process.

[tennisgurl]

8 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

You mean Omega? You know, I see a resemblance. Now I'm imagining the Third Doctor repeatedly judo-flipping Agent Liberty in a mental landscape.

 

I was actually noticing a resemblance to Alpha the robot butler from Power Rangers, but I can see Omega too. 

Yeah, I get that J'onn' was busy and all, but him being like "YOUR SAFE" as the families house was on fire was almost hilariously insensitive. It really was like the universe just decided to constantly mess with this one guy. I dont blame J'onn', I blame the bad guys, but I can see, without the context we have, how that would upset someone. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

17 minutes ago, Tasha Brand said:

No.  Sam lost all of her Kryptonian attributes after Reign was expelled from her body.  So she's currently living as a full human.

Thanks @Tasha Brand -- I forgot about that.

[rlc]

Mostly made me realize how much I miss Cat.

[opus]

Was that new Cat Grant or stuff we’ve seen before?

[VCRTracking]

I recognized Ben Lockwood's dad as John Connor's foster dad from Terminator 2 and George Mason from the first two seasons of 24.

Yeah, it is hilarious how all the main characters who interacted with him acted like assholes.

So are they going to not do any more alien invasion storylines? Because that's going to make the allegorical stuff they're trying this season really awkward.

[MadyGirl1987]

I really enjoyed that episode. For a show that isn't exactly subtle, I think it showed how someone could be led down the path of hate and violence by fear and desperation. Let's be honest... Aliens coming to Earth has not been a uniformly great thing for humans. I mean, 3 major alien attacks, not to mention all the chaos and damage villains like Reign caused in lead up to these attacks. Also; it's been revealed an alien lied in order to assume our top government position. That's a big deal. It's not like aliens just look different, they can cause serious damage if they wanted to. I would be surprised if aliens weren't looked at with suspicion after the stuff we've seen go down on the show. That's not to say violence and hate towards innocent aliens is okay, but you can see where people like Lockwood are coming from. I hope we see Supergirl and the DEO see the alien refugee situation from the view of the average joe on the street because being able to do that means they would be able to do outreach and address concerns. It wouldn't stop all the hate and violence, but it would make a difference if people could see aliens as more then just in the headlines invading and causing death and destruction. I know this is overused, but people fear what they don't understand.

[quarks]

My distinct impression from this episode was that it was written mostly to allow Supergirl to start doubling up on filming to accommodate Melissa Benoist's crossover schedule. That way, they could film three to four scenes from episode four in this episode, allowing them to film some scenes from episode five during the shooting for episode four, and so on until they reached the crossover. Thus the focus on the non-main cast members.

At the same time, they also didn't want the main cast completely left out - thus the unintentional hilarity of either mentioning or having this guy interact with pretty much everyone from the cast except for Mon-El.

I did like seeing the impacts of the past few season finales on ordinary citizens. But that said - this particular steel mill? Has been working with/in competition with the Luthors for years. With a new metal in the mix, they easily should have been able to work out some sort of financing to develop the new material - in fact, they should have been one of the first companies approached to suggest developing the stuff. 

Completely agreed about the episode's main plot hole: why didn't they just summon Cisco and get Kara out of there? 

And about the episode's main sad note: reminding me how much I - and this show - miss Cat Grant.

[Trini]

4 hours ago, screamin said:

I've loved Sam Witwer since Smallville, but it rubs me the wrong way that there seem to be touches of trying to make his character a more sympathetic version of Richard Spencer - and honestly, the last thing this country needs is more sympathy for his ilk.

I was afraid they'd make him sympathetic, but I don't think they did. They gave an explanation about why he's on the path he's on, but that doesn't excuse his actions. Although, a lot of alien-related misery did happen to the dude and his family.

 

3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

As mentioned upthread, they just need to get Kara to another Earth until the kryptonite radiation dissipates -- why is no one calling Cisco to vibe her out of there ?  Or Barry ? Or somehow get a hold of Gypsy ?  Or just put Kara in a submersible underwater completely isolated from the atmosphere.

I think the writers really dropped the ball on this since no one came up with any other possible solutions.  Now Kara looks like a cross between Captain America and the robot from the 'Lost in Space' reboot.

Ah, the shared universe conundrum. Yeah, sending Kara away would make sense, but then you need Supergirl around for a Supergirl show. Although, maybe Cisco (or whoever) can bring in some uncontaminated atmosphere to Kara's earth so that she doesn't have to be in the suit all the time.
 

2 hours ago, opus said:

Was that new Cat Grant or stuff we’ve seen before?

I think it's stuff that was filmed before (for season 2?) that didn't make the final edit.

[jmonique]

Started watching it, but I just can't. I wish I could see I was enlightened enough to appreciate the Trumpian allegories, but I'd rather not watch the chronicle of a White Man's Burden the same weekend of a mass shooting motivated by hate (which I get the producers and writers couldn't have predicted).

It's a shame, too, as I was so happy to know Mon-Mary Sue-El wouldn't be back this season.

[Cthulhudrew]

Lockwood's story is certainly enough to lend some credence to his viewpoint- although in typically implausible hamhanded tv fashion, his family is somehow directly impacted not only by every alien invasion but by constant direct contact with all the members of our main cast.

That said, though, this episode is another one of these seemingly endless "please excuse the interruption, but here's a villain origin story" that disrupts our main plotlines with the subtlety of a hammer. It definitely ranks higher than the dreary Ricardo Diaz episode from Arrow last season, mainly due to Sam Witwer's performance and the relevance to the backstory of the season- but it was pretty boring nevertheless.

(Side note: Did Agent Liberty's costume get a much needed enhancement this episode from eps 1 and 2? It seemed a lot more crude and generic in those episodes, but maybe it was the lighting and/or I wasn't really paying attention.)

Also, another episode that doesn't do anything with this Russian Supergirl storyline that was the big teaser for this season. Other than her digging a hole under a train, I feel like they don't know what to do with that story (plus, shouldn't Commiegirl be affected by Kryptonite, too?) 

[thuganomics85]

While I'm usually the last to ever make excuses for a villain, anyone whose dad is played by Xander Berkeley has at least a 90% shot of becoming evil no matter what!

In all seriousness, Sam Witwer was pretty great throughout all of this (still pissed over Once Upon A Time squandering him as a potential fun villain as Mr. Hyde), but there was definitely a lot of questionable moments for me.  Ben's turn from mild-manner professor to hate-spewing bigot felt very rushed and clunky.  Him crossing paths with almost all of the main characters felt silly and in order for it to work, it felt like they're making some of them (especially Alex and James) more jerkish then I would think they would be (and also making Kara's shock over all of this racism even more dumb, since her exchange with Ben should have been a big freaking warning sign that not everyone is all enlightened about the aliens.)  And just the whole general idea of giving him and his ilk a somewhat sympathetic backstory, which in this current political climate really seems like a way to just piss your main fanbase off. 

I am a little bit intrigued that Ben/Agent Liberty is actually more of he voice/mascot and isn't in charge, and Mercy even hints that there is another boss she is working for.  I wonder who that will be?

Speaking of Once Upon A Time, the alien student Ben was being an asshole racist to played Young Emma Swan on that show!

I guess Kara still being knocked out and in that suit is a way for Melissa Benoist to be off screen for reasons.  Filming the crossover, perhaps?  Brainy fanboying over Lena's device does make me hope we see more of those two together in future episodes.

Cat Grant!!

Didn't hate this episode due to Witwer's performance, but it definitely had its issues to put it mildly.

[Trini]

35 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I guess Kara still being knocked out and in that suit is a way for Melissa Benoist to be off screen for reasons.  Filming the crossover, perhaps? 

Melissa was on the East coast(performing on Broadway) during the summer while they were filming the first few episodes.

[Quark]

I liked this episode. Sam Witwer is a very strong actor, and I look forward to what happens to his character this season.

[ottoDbusdriver]

5 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Also, another episode that doesn't do anything with this Russian Supergirl storyline that was the big teaser for this season. Other than her digging a hole under a train, I feel like they don't know what to do with that story (plus, shouldn't Commiegirl be affected by Kryptonite, too?) 

I guess Kasnian Supergirl might have to dial back on the tunneling since she should definitely be affected since the kryptonite radiation is everywhere, and she won't have access to a fancy Lena Luthor suit.

[Chicago Redshirt]

11 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Let's see, aliens have apparently been living very openly for at least a few years, and yet it's only now that Kara and friends are aware of serious anti-alien sentiment?  What took so long?

I think J'onn knew. Supergirl just tends to see the optimistic side of things and so had metaphorical blinders on. A few episodes back, when she and J'onn were talking about the issue, Kara was like "People like me, so I don't see that people would hate aliens in general." It took her being in a hub of anti-alien activity to realize this was a real thing.

11 hours ago, mxc90 said:

James was out of character by the way he dismissed Ben for a phone call from Lena. I know he’s smitten but he could have been a little professional.

I thought it was pretty gracious to take a face-to-face meeting with a guy off the street in the first place. I'm pretty sure if someone wanted to get on the calendar of the executive editor of the NYT or the Washington Post, that would be impossible. And then when Ben's pitch was like, "I think you should cover more of this anti-alien news" and it turned out that CatCo had covered it, I would say cutting that meeting short was fine. Maybe he could have been more diplomatic about it, but Jimmy had every right to give dude the brushoff.

[quarks]

8 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I thought it was pretty gracious to take a face-to-face meeting with a guy off the street in the first place. I'm pretty sure if someone wanted to get on the calendar of the executive editor of the NYT or the Washington Post, that would be impossible. And then when Ben's pitch was like, "I think you should cover more of this anti-alien news" and it turned out that CatCo had covered it, I would say cutting that meeting short was fine. Maybe he could have been more diplomatic about it, but Jimmy had every right to give dude the brushoff.

The guy was a professor and the son of someone who was apparently a major steel mill owner, so not quite just your ordinary guy coming off the street, but....yeah, the entire setup was implausible. With media, it's usually more in the other direction. This would have been something that the guy should have had his attorney write.

But that brings up another question I had: I know, television, and this episode was trying to work the blue-collar worker angle, but still - Xander Berkeley wasn't just a welder in a steel mill, he was the owner. The mill was big/successful enough to get a Luthor contract. That family should have been much better off - with a bigger house and other assets besides the mill. When factories close, it's usually the workers left destitute, not the owners. Yes, the closing of the mill would have been a huge financial hit - but not to the "OMG we won't be able to afford food in two weeks" level that the show was presenting.

[shantown]

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Brainy fanboying over Lena's device does make me hope we see more of those two together in future episodes.

Yes! If I can’t have a nerdy friendship between Winn and Lena I want it with Brainy and Lena!

Watching this episode after recent news was just exhausting. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by shantown
Clumsy thumbs

[ottoDbusdriver]

I just don't buy the whole 'aliens are stealing your heavy lifting jobs' excuse used by Lockwood -- that's what forklifts are for.  Forklifts made out of Nth metal, maybe ??

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by ottoDbusdriver
Forgot the word "don't"

[Chicago Redshirt]

45 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I just buy the whole 'aliens are stealing your heavy lifting jobs' excuse used by Lockwood -- that's what forklifts are for.  Forklifts made out of Nth metal, maybe ??

 

Forklifts cost money to buy and maintain and use, presumably more than an alien would charge.

That said, the Lockwoods seemingly didn't try that hard to compete. Yes, they went for a bank loan they didn't get and Ben tried to get Lena to help out. But they refused to get into the Nth metal business, or to petition the government (along with other steel manufacturers) about how unfair it is that aliens can introduce this technology. For someone who talked a big game about standing up and fighting like a man, Lockwood Sr. did precious little of it.

Incidentally, Nth metal is associated with Thanagar and Hawkman/Hawkwoman as the metal that allows them to fly and that has other neat properties. 

[Writing Wrongs]

How long will Supergirl have to wear that? How will they explain Kara's absence? 

I miss when villains did things just because they enjoyed being evil.

[mrspidey]

How to become a racist prick 101.

 

I want 40 minutes of my life back...

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 hours ago, quarks said:

Yes, the closing of the mill would have been a huge financial hit - but not to the "OMG we won't be able to afford food in two weeks" level that the show was presenting.

They were running out of food and water because they were afraid to leave the house during the Daxamite invasion, and, presumably, the utilities had been cut off (otherwise they wouldn't be worried about the bathtub being filled with water.)

[shantown]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

They were running out of food and water because they were afraid to leave the house during the Daxamite invasion, and, presumably, the utilities had been cut off (otherwise they wouldn't be worried about the bathtub being filled with water.)

Okay, but wouldn't all the millions of people in National City be in the same situation then? And you don't see all of them beating up aliens with pipes and putting on creepy masks to have nazi rallies.

[quarks]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

They were running out of food and water because they were afraid to leave the house during the Daxamite invasion, and, presumably, the utilities had been cut off (otherwise they wouldn't be worried about the bathtub being filled with water.)

Ok, but that was just that one scene. There was also the scene where he was desperate to keep his job because his family had no other income, and the scene where he was freaking out about homeowner's insurance and apparently didn't have enough money/cash for a lawsuit about that, and several other indications of WE ARE IN FINANCIAL PERIL which, again, would have been more believable if his father had been a welder and not the owner of the mill.

[HunterHunted]

18 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I just didn't buy into the whole Pa Lockewood, successful steel mill owner schtick.  He acted like he worked on the floor instead of owning the place.

8 hours ago, quarks said:

But that brings up another question I had: I know, television, and this episode was trying to work the blue-collar worker angle, but still - Xander Berkeley wasn't just a welder in a steel mill, he was the owner. The mill was big/successful enough to get a Luthor contract. That family should have been much better off - with a bigger house and other assets besides the mill. When factories close, it's usually the workers left destitute, not the owners. Yes, the closing of the mill would have been a huge financial hit - but not to the "OMG we won't be able to afford food in two weeks" level that the show was presenting.

 

8 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I just don't buy the whole 'aliens are stealing your heavy lifting jobs' excuse used by Lockwood -- that's what forklifts are for.  Forklifts made out of Nth metal, maybe ??

If Nth metal steel is so valuable a commodity, would they really waste it on whiteboard trays ?  That's what aluminum is for.

I'm just a simple suburban steel magnate who can be drunk all day and complain about aliens taking our jobs. I grew up in Steel City, Pittsburgh, PA, and literally everything out of Pops Lockwood's mouth was ridiculous. In Supergirl's universe, technological advancements, robots, efficiencies, and cheaper foreign producers either don't exist or weren't much of threat to American steel mills, but aliens lifting tons of ore is the industry killer. There's a still functional steel mill 2 miles from my childhood home. In the 80s the lot was filled with hundreds of cars. Now there are like 3 dozen because of technology and robots. Working in a steel mill is still a dangerous shitty job that kills people to this day. If the show had been smart enough to say that the mills were letting humans go and hiring aliens who could handle extremely high heat, which allowed owners to decrease safety precautions, that would have been more feasible.

Secondly, there is almost no one who owns or runs a steel company in the US who isn't an engineer or at least have a business degree. He wouldn't have even been conversant in trying to put together a proposal to try an manufacture Nth metal steel without being a chemical or materials engineer or having one on staff and none of those dopes at mill looked like they'd have those qualifications.

Third, by the time he knew that he'd lost the bid to produce Nth steel. He should have sold his factory especially if he knew that they were building a new one. He's literally sitting on millions of dollars of land and equipment. Even the most bankrupt of the steel mills had millions upon millions of land and equipment.

25 minutes ago, quarks said:

Ok, but that was just that one scene. There was also the scene where he was desperate to keep his job because his family had no other income, and the scene where he was freaking out about homeowner's insurance and apparently didn't have enough money/cash for a lawsuit about that, and several other indications of WE ARE IN FINANCIAL PERIL which, again, would have been more believable if his father had been a welder and not the owner of the mill.

It would have been a lot more believable if pops had been a regular factory worker, a shift or line supervisor, or even a foreman. And much more believable if the thing that imperiled their jobs was an alien technology or even ability that made producing steel cheaper and more efficient. Even if an alien can lift as much as a forklift, a forklift or robot can work longer than an alien. Forklifts and robots don't take lunch breaks or want to talk about the game or politics. Robots don't have mouths that they can run.

I wish they had revisited Lena's lead dispersal. And found out that despite Morgan Edge's trickery, the lead really did cause health issues, especially among the immuno-compromised. Add in the insurance issues with alien damage, maybe something about FEMA being slow to payout, and the president being an alien disguised as a human, then we might have seen Ben's radicalization as something that actually could be possible.

[quarks]

4 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I wish they had revisited Lena's lead dispersal. And found out that despite Morgan Edge's trickery, the lead really did cause health issues, especially among the immuno-compromised. Add in the insurance issues with alien damage, maybe something about FEMA being slow to payout, and the president being an alien disguised as a human, then we might have seen Ben's radicalization as something that actually could be possible.

Yeah. This. Have his kid be immuno-compromised and hit with the lead. And, because the dad has earned a decent but not great living as a steelworker, and he's just a college professor, they don't have the money for experimental treatments that insurance refused to cover. Then, as you say, add in the insurance issues with the alien damage and FEMA issues, throw in some alien robots, and you have something I can believe.

Not this: a steel mill owner apparently not knowing how to upgrade his materials/equipment and a son who is shocked, shocked that a Luthor would be working for her own business interests, not nostalgia.

Not to mention a supposed steel mill owner trying to run a profitable company out of one of Arrow's warehouses, but I suppose he couldn't help the set issues.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

Yeah. This. Have his kid be immuno-compromised and hit with the lead. And, because the dad has earned a decent but not great living as a steelworker, and he's just a college professor, they don't have the money for experimental treatments that insurance refused to cover. Then, as you say, add in the insurance issues with the alien damage and FEMA issues, throw in some alien robots, and you have something I can believe.

Not this: a steel mill owner apparently not knowing how to upgrade his materials/equipment and a son who is shocked, shocked that a Luthor would be working for her own business interests, not nostalgia.

Not to mention a supposed steel mill owner trying to run a profitable company out of one of Arrow's warehouses, but I suppose he couldn't help the set issues.

It really could have been a good example of the cure being worse than the disease. You'd be rightly bitter if your home was destroyed, your kid is sick, and your life is in shambles because Supergirl, the government, and Lena Luthor were busy fighting aliens. Yeah, they saved you from other Kryptonians, Daxamites, Reign and a death cult, but your life is objectively worse than it was 5 years ago. You're not dead from the alien invasion, but your life is absolutely suckier.

It also reminds me of this great piece on This American Life. It's about 2 rookie cops who respond to a call at home about an unknown animal in a couple's home. Though they knew better, the rookies really wanted to impress the hot wife. After the entire debacle is concluded, the husband is injured, the house is in shambles, part of the living room is on fire, and they have thousands of dollars of damage, the husband turns to the rookies and says something like "I can't really think of anything you've done wrong. We did call you. You came here and solved our issue, but I can't really thank you for any of this."

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/510/fiasco/act-three-0

[piperkat]

Honestly, I didn't see a sympathetic villain. I saw an entitled jerk who got really pissy that everyone wasn't bending over backwards to fix his problems. Lena and James both took time out to talk to him, even though he ambushed Lena at work where she had every reason to blow him off. Then even when she tries to help later, he's so wrapped up in his own anger he won't even take her help.

Both of them actually listened to him and responded to him, but he didn't like the answers, so he threw a years-long tantrum. Guess what, Ben -- every other business that's survived has done so by adapting. Every other steel mill has modernized or closed. You and your dad are't special. You are just bad at business. Also, not only are you responsible for reading your own insurance policy, but is CatCo the only media in the world? Superman has been fighting villains and destroying buildings for like 15 years now. Did no one else on TV or the internet ever mention the fact that homeowner's insurance doesn't cover super damage?

James and Lena aren't responsible for Ben's ignorance and his father's crappy business sense. But he's angry that the world isn't revolving around him, so he starts using his class to rant about aliens and how they don't belong. And when someone eventually complains, he stalks the student he's been harassing in class and tries to assault her. This is not the action of a good guy at his wit's end. This is the action of an asshole who thinks he's beyond consequences.  

Screw you, Agent Liberty. You're not a misunderstood hero. You're a child throwing a tantrum. 

[ketose]

13 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Forklifts cost money to buy and maintain and use, presumably more than an alien would charge.

That said, the Lockwoods seemingly didn't try that hard to compete. Yes, they went for a bank loan they didn't get and Ben tried to get Lena to help out. But they refused to get into the Nth metal business, or to petition the government (along with other steel manufacturers) about how unfair it is that aliens can introduce this technology. For someone who talked a big game about standing up and fighting like a man, Lockwood Sr. did precious little of it.

Incidentally, Nth metal is associated with Thanagar and Hawkman/Hawkwoman as the metal that allows them to fly and that has other neat properties. 

There's like 140 million employees in the United States. How many aliens are there to take their jobs? I also find it hard to believe that nth metal could be stronger, cheaper and easier to make. Every material has pros and cons. For one thing, you'd need steel to replace steel in buildings for repairs, because the different characteristics of another metal could tear the existing structure apart due to incompatible stresses.

Speaking of Doctor Who, this reminded me of "Turn Left" except that the bad aliens came from outside Earth and the savior was the good alien. Still, every bad thing happened to both characters.

Also, no one seems to understand density because if that little vial of Kryptonite was everywhere at once, the concentration would be about 1 part per quintillion, which is about a billion times greater than when Kara had a Kryptonite BULLET inside her.

[Dobian]

On 10/28/2018 at 11:35 PM, mommalib said:

Trying to make a hateful white person sympathetic is how the wheels on the white supremacy bus go round and round.

Hate is not race-specific.  As for Supergirl's clunky handling of the immigration allegory, it's really apples and oranges.  Human immigration issues are not the same thing as aliens from other worlds which has been conflated by actual invasion attempts and mass destruction.  The movie District 9 was a much better exploration of what would happen if a bunch of alien refugees landed on our world and how governments and people react.

[ketose]

The show is smashing together two different issues. One is the collateral damage from multiple attempts to take over the world, along with the random murders committed by aliens who, for the most part, escaped from a prison ship with an unintentional pardon. Then there's the spectrum between legitimate concern about the affect of multiple aliens with different biologies and potential hazards though the plain xenophobia of obsessing over the other and what they have that you don't. The first is more a result of lazy writing. The other is influenced heavily by the worldview of the producers.

Obviously, this season is going to be a civil war where the aliens win and most of the bigots change their ways or die.

[Perfect Xero]

Nth metal is awesome so someone like Lena Luthor wants to use it in her high end projects? Sure.

Nth metal, a material that they're shipping to Earth from other planets at faster than light speeds, is apparently so cheap that they're using it to make chalk trays? No.

That the sequence where Ben's father died was so similar to the opening sequence from Batman v Superman where Bruce is caught in the middle of the Superman/Zod fight (from Man Of Steel, no less) made me laugh.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Perfect Xero

[Diapason Untuned]

On 10/29/2018 at 2:32 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Ben's turn from mild-manner professor to hate-spewing bigot felt very rushed and clunky. 

It seemed to me that that was the point.

He was always kinda racist, but he hid it under the veneer of being progressive.

The moment some bad luck came his way, the mask came off and he just started getting worse and worse, till he achieved his final form, went full circle and started wearing a mask again, only a literal one.

 

Quote

Him crossing paths with almost all of the main characters felt silly and in order for it to work, it felt like they're making some of them (especially Alex and James) more jerkish then I would think they would be

Was I watching a different episode or something? No one was a jerk to this guy.

He was telling Alex how the people who had to be restrained from beating up someone were actually nice guys. She's not obligated to agree with him on that.

As for James, I have never empathized with him more than I did this episode. I had a vivid image of him mentally shaking his head at this dude (with zero media experience, I might add) coming in, dropping wisdom he's sure James doesn't know about and telling him how to do his job.

James was perfectly polite to the guy, and he can't be blamed for prioritizing a call from his boss over that conversation.

 

Quote

(and also making Kara's shock over all of this racism even more dumb, since her exchange with Ben should have been a big freaking warning sign that not everyone is all enlightened about the aliens.) 

She already knew that, she simply didn't think it was as widespread as it was.

 

Quote

Cat Grant!!

I miss her too. To think there was a time I thought she was obnoxious...

Those were dark days.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Diapason Untuned

[catrice2]

Just one more reason for me to not like this show. The topic this season couldn't be more reflective of art imitating life, and it's really not something I need right now. I just need escapism in the ability to come to this message boards and talk about a fictional show instead of dealing with reality 24/7. Hopefully future episodes will be devoted to how we can disagree civilly but I won't hold my breath

[Perfect Xero]

14 hours ago, Diapason Untuned said:

It seemed to me that that was the point.

He was always kinda racist, but he hid it under the veneer of being progressive.

Was I watching a different episode or something? No one was a jerk to this guy.

He was telling Alex how the people who had to be restrained from beating up someone were actually nice guys. She's not obligated to agree with him on that.

I think you're accurate on the others, James and Lena were nice to him until he went into angry rant mode, Kara simply got between him and a woman he was harassing, MM could have been less scary, but he was in the middle of fighting an alien invasion. But Alex did open by accusing him of being part of the attack on the alien when he was legitimately trying to stop it and was almost killed as a result.

I think the writers wanted the audience to be sympathetic to Ben in spite of him being a, uh, racist murderer, so they have his first interaction with one of the main cast be him being unfairly accused of something we know he didn't do. This sets the audience's sympathies with him and colors the way the audience views the rest of his interactions with the cast when, as you say, he brought any negative responses he got from them on himself through his own words and actions.

I'm not sure what to make of the overall message this seems to be sending (through Ben, and the Dean that fired him for his rhetoric converting later in the episode) that every educated white liberal is, apparently, just a few bad days away from turning into a monster.