S37.E04: Time to Bring Out the Charmpocalypse

[SuburbanHangSuite]

16 hours ago, Slider said:

I just can't with Gaby.

THIS!!!  The simpering, the whining, the crying.  Did she ever watch a season of Survivor before applying?!  Christian is incredibly charming, likeable and hilarious in the best of ways but he has no more in common physically with those buff Goliath dudes than Gabby does--but guess what?  He makes an effort.  I need her to be gone but immediately.  Maybe even before Natalie.

Speaking of Natalie--

I can't believe she's not a paid actor.  It boggles the mind.  I'm STILL salty that Jeremy is gone and she's still there.

Finally, every once in a while there is a Tribal that is so satisfying that it requires a good rewind--or two or ten.  I LOVED the smug look disappearing from Natalia's face.  Bish was just waxing poetic about going out in a blaze of glory until the possibility of it really happening hit her like a ton of bricks.  I don't even think that Alec is in long-term trouble with that move.  He can argue that he was playing his best game and not just blindly voting with numbers--I think that will go a long way with Elizabeth and Carl--even with Davey who really kind of helped him reach that decision while they were chilling in the hammock.  Alec has quickly vaulted to one of my favs with that move.  Great season so far!

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

100%. He even talked about how he's so outgoing with his wrestling characters, but he gets really tripped up a lot during social situations and isn't good with small talk. I really related to that. I grew up doing community theater and later went to a magnet high school for performing arts. I felt so at home on stage. But in my regular life? Painfully shy, awkward, friendless nerd. I bet John uses his wrestling as an outlet for behavior he isn't comfortable with in real life. 

Same here, except instead of community theater I did cast in RHPS.  Absolutely no better way to get yourself out of your introverted shell - not in early-80s pre-AIDS America, at least.  ;>

 

3 hours ago, Kelda Feegle said:

Oh that conversation on the path... 

Horse - horse

Horse? - Horse!

Horse!!! - Horse!!

I wish I had a horse - awkward silence 

Hahahahahahahahaha 

Natalia could’ve used a horse last night - to ride her domineering entitled ass the hell off the set.  ;)

 

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I took that to mean that she was more tied to horses and maybe a farm or something then the rest of her family. I saw the Redneck more as a lifestyle then a location type dealio but she did not explain what she meant. Most of the folks who talk about Yankees, that I know, are referencing people from the East but Redneck seems to be more of a lifestyle thing then a geographic thing. I know people in California that are referred to as Rednecks, they tend to live in more rural areas. But that is my experience and might not be universal.

“Redneck” initially was simply a descriptive (albeit mildly condescending) term for farmers; hats, bandannas, and neckerchiefs notwithstanding - if you’re leaning over a hoe or the steering wheel of a tractor all day long in the sun, the back of your neck is getting burnt.  Over time the condescension amplified and took on extra connotative layers of ignorance and racism, at which point rural folks started drawing an important-to-them distinction between “rednecks” and “good ol’ boys”*; non-rural folks rarely make such a distinction, though.

* What’s the difference between a redneck and a good ol’ boy?  The redneck pitches his empties out on the side of the road, while the good ol’ boy throws them back in the bed of his truck.  :)

[jumper sage]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

If I were being ordered by Natalie on which stick to pick up, where to put it, etc. .... I’d stand up, hand her the sticks, then walk off and do something else productive. I cannot stand that kind of “managing” people.

All the other people should have just walked off and told her to let them know when she got the fire up and running.

[Lukeysboat]

45 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

So would 2 go to exile and 2 tribes go to tribal? Or would 1 team leave short a player. This makes zero sense. 

Here’s part of the interview from ew.com between Ross and Probst.  

“Did Bi leaving the game change your schedule on the tribe swap? Meaning, was the original plan to do the tribe swap in episode 5 after your fourth Tribal Council, with 16 people left in the game, but because you lost a fourth person early you had to move it up an episode?

“Nope. That swap was already set for that episode. In fact, I actually removed one buff from the tray, in front of the Survivors, just before we did the swap. Due to time, we cut that from the show, but it did change how we executed the swap. We had a slightly different plan in place — always trying to catch them off guard — that we’ll save for another season.”

[cooksdelight]

10 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

All the other people should have just walked off and told her to let them know when she got the fire up and running.

There’s a mutiny coming, I can feel it. LOL

[MissEwa]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

This advantage seems nearly impossible to use correctly. Given how badly simpler advantages like extra votes/vote cancellers have gone, I have a hard time picturing this one working out. Needing to know who has an idol, when they're going to play it, and who it's going to be played for? That's a lot of moving pieces.  Maybe it would get easier down the road with fewer people left, but I'm still doubtful that this will be all that useful.

 

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

The only way I’d use it is if someone has an idol around their neck, bragging they are safe .... or someone tells me they have one and will use it that night. Otherwise, it’s a crap shoot.

 

4 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Nonetheless, now that they have introduced this "Anti-Idol", I would expect that to fail even more often than the original HII. Why? Because ...

1) They have to pick the correct time to play this Anti-Idol and that's a very difficult thing to get right. And ...

2) They also have to select the correct person who will be getting voted out - not necessarily the person who will be playing the idol. I would guess that in order for this Anti-Idol to affect the game, the show runners need to arrange for an AI to be played almost every time that someone is about to be voted out.

 

I may be wrong, and please - honestly - if I am someone explain it to me because I've been thinking about it a LOT and I'm confusing myself, but I think the only thing you need to play this advantage correctly is to have the numbers, and be in the know on the vote (ie. pretty much be in the majority alliance). I think it's actually quite hard to play *incorrectly*, at least in any way that matters. 

Example (ignore the names, they're just pulled out of the air): It's post merge and the alliances run 6-4. The 6 know that someone - it doesn't matter who - on the 4 has an idol. They want to vote out Dan, because of the 4, he is the clear leader, a challenge beast and likeable enough to win at the end. He's also the obvious person for the 4 to play their idol on, because of those factors. Without a vote nullifier, the 6 would either try some weird vote split, or try voting for Alison, who they'll be least likely to use the idol on. WITH the vote nullifier, they vote 6 votes for Dan, and play the vote nullifier on Dan. And then...
- Dan plays an idol, it's null. Dan goes home.
- Mike plays an idol. Dan goes home. 
- Alison has an idol and plays it for Dan. It's null. Dan goes home. 
- Nobody plays an idol. Dan goes home. 
- The 4 actually have three idols and have won immunity. They play all of them. Dan's idol is null. Dan... goes home. 

YMMV, but I'd say in all those cases the nullifier was used correctly, in that it ensured the person you wanted out went home. Who actually had/played the idol is irrelevant. It's really less about the idol and more about the votes. It's an insurance policy. 

The only way to play it *incorrectly* is to play it when you don't have the numbers. So if two of the six had actually flipped, in which case whether or not Dan has an idol is irrelevant anyway, or if your alliance doesn't trust you one bit and has told you the wrong person to write down, in which case... you're screwed anyway. It's also near-useless if you're in the minority alliance (unless you also have an idol, and play *that* correctly). 

The only strategy, I guess, is deciding *when* to use it, whether it's better to hold it until 5/6 or use it at 11/10/9. 

But as I said, maybe I'm missing something. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by MissEwa

[jumper sage]

I am inclined to agree with your assessment.  Nice layout, by the way.

[ljenkins782]

28 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

 

I may be wrong, and please - honestly - if I am someone explain it to me because I've been thinking about it a LOT and I'm confusing myself, but I think the only thing you need to play this advantage correctly is to have the numbers, and be in the know on the vote (ie. pretty much be in the majority alliance). I think it's actually quite hard to play *incorrectly*, at least in any way that matters. 

Example (ignore the names, they're just pulled out of the air): It's post merge and the alliances run 6-4. The 6 know that someone - it doesn't matter who - on the 4 has an idol. They want to vote out Dan, because of the 4, he is the clear leader, a challenge beast and likeable enough to win at the end. He's also the obvious person for the 4 to play their idol on, because of those factors. Without a vote nullifier, the 6 would either try some weird vote split, or try voting for Alison, who they'll be least likely to use the idol on. WITH the vote nullifier, they vote 6 votes for Dan, and play the vote nullifier on Dan. And then...
- Dan plays an idol, it's null. Dan goes home.
- Mike plays an idol. Dan goes home. 
- Alison has an idol and plays it for Dan. It's null. Dan goes home. 
- Nobody plays an idol. Dan goes home. 
- The 4 actually have three idols and have won immunity. They play all of them. Dan's idol is null. Dan... goes home. 

YMMV, but I'd say in all those cases the nullifier was used correctly, in that it ensured the person you wanted out went home. Who actually had/played the idol is irrelevant. It's really less about the idol and more about the votes. It's an insurance policy. 

The only way to play it *incorrectly* is to play it when you don't have the numbers. So if two of the six had actually flipped, in which case whether or not Dan has an idol is irrelevant anyway, or if your alliance doesn't trust you one bit and has told you the wrong person to write down, in which case... you're screwed anyway. It's also near-useless if you're in the minority alliance (unless you also have an idol, and play *that* correctly). 

The only strategy, I guess, is deciding *when* to use it, whether it's better to hold it until 5/6 or use it at 11/10/9. 

But as I said, maybe I'm missing something. 

But all of that has very little to do with the actual advantage and more to do with successful play (ie, being in the know and being in the majority alliance). At a 6-4 split, a split vote on 2 people is about as likely to work as an idol nullifier. 

Without insider intel, this advantage is really difficult and if I were Carl, I'd rather have something easier, like an idol or an extra vote. 

[truthaboutluv]

5 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Gabby was clearly uncomfortable with her place in the tribe and melted down but she was smart in that she moved away from the group to melt down. She shared her insecurities with the one person she trusts and who has shared his insecurities with her. Gabby also rocked the immunity challenge. She was clear, concise and measure during the challenge. She guided them to an easy victory which will help her in the tribe.

As annoying as her crying was probably to some, I did get why they kept it in, after seeing how she came through in the challenge. Despite her insecurities in not feeling comfortable with her new tribe members, worried that she'd go home if they went to tribal, she maintained a calm manner throughout the challenge, which is what allowed them to kill it like they did. 

While I gave her flack for the whiny convo with Christian some episodes back, I did feel for her because on the outside looking in, it would be easy to say, "this is Survivor, just try to play the game, work an angle, etc." But I think being out in the environment, away from everything, it probably makes her feel even more vulnerable and if in her daily life she is already uncomfortable and threatened by people like a Dan, Angela, etc. That only gets heightened being in such a vulnerable position where she and Christian are outnumbered in the tribe. 

I do wonder what would happen if they went to tribal. Because I don't feel like either of the Goliaths will want to rock the boat and flip on each other. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[Special K]

1 minute ago, truthaboutluv said:

As annoying as her crying was probably to some, I did get why they kept it in, after seeing how she came through in the challenge. Despite her insecurities in not feeling comfortable with her new tribe members, worried that she'd go home if they went to tribal, she maintained a calm manner throughout the challenge, which is what allowed them to kill it like they did. 

Yeah, and it made her hero for the day!

[MissEwa]

13 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

At a 6-4 split, a split vote on 2 people is about as likely to work as an idol nullifier. 

How? It's not 'insider intel' to know who your alliance is voting for, that's what an alliance is. 

If you're not in one, then yeah, it's useless. 

ETA. It's why I don't like it. It's really only useful if you already have the numbers and there's not a lot of strategy to it. It's not hard to play, you just already have to be in a good position to do so (unlike other advantages/idols, which could potentially be useful from any position). 

Edited October 18, 2018 by MissEwa

[ratgirlagogo]

7 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

13 hours ago, backformore said:

I don't get why they all jump to obey her commands.  "You two- start the fire!  You - get the pot ready!"  Come on, let's do it."  as she sits and watches, then micro-manages the fire, "Put the light piece on -  right there!  come on!"  

And not one person says something like "How about YOU do it?"  

  

Natalie is one of those people who you can choose to take a stand and tell her to pound sand and deal with a massive blow up or just suck it up and do what she says. And it made total sense for Lyrissa and Nick to suck it up because it was clear that no one liked Natalie. She suck it up and work with the other Goliaths to get rid of Natalie. But getting into a fight with Natalie would only weaken the David's position in the tribe.

Absofuckinglutely this.   Natalie is a Queen Lear.   She does not get that of course people are going to fall all over themselves  treating you like a queen when you actually ARE a queen with the power to ruin their lives if they don't.    She somehow doesn't see  that the Regans and Gonerils of this world who suck up the hardest are the first ones who are gonna kick you in the teeth once you no longer have the power to hurt them.

BTW if any of you have never read Shakespeare's King Lear this would be a great time to do it since I do believe that watching Natalie will give you an appreciation of it:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1532

 

Man just for the record I am loving this season.  I can remember almost everybody and I'm not falling asleep during the episodes the way I did last season.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I'd rather see someone angry in the moment than hear another rendition of, "I'm so proud of myself for how I played the game," when they have clearly been terrible at it.

Or "I wouldn't change a thing about the way I played!" Or "At least I didn't compromise my integrity!"

I like the idea of the Nullifier in theory, but there are too many hurdles to cross in order to use it to any effect. You have to guess who's going to play an idol and when and then bank on it before the idol is played. Way too easy to play it on the wrong person or at the wrong time. I'd prefer just a straight-up Nullify after an idol has been played. Imagine the looks on peoples' faces. But the show is just too damn enamored of their stupid idols.

[Nashville]

45 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

I may be wrong, and please - honestly - if I am someone explain it to me because I've been thinking about it a LOT and I'm confusing myself, but I think the only thing you need to play this advantage correctly is to have the numbers, and be in the know on the vote (ie. pretty much be in the majority alliance). I think it's actually quite hard to play *incorrectly*, at least in any way that matters. 

Example (ignore the names, they're just pulled out of the air): It's post merge and the alliances run 6-4. The 6 know that someone - it doesn't matter who - on the 4 has an idol. They want to vote out Dan, because of the 4, he is the clear leader, a challenge beast and likeable enough to win at the end. He's also the obvious person for the 4 to play their idol on, because of those factors. Without a vote nullifier, the 6 would either try some weird vote split, or try voting for Alison, who they'll be least likely to use the idol on. WITH the vote nullifier, they vote 6 votes for Dan, and play the vote nullifier on Dan. And then...
- Dan plays an idol, it's null. Dan goes home.
- Mike plays an idol. Dan goes home. 
- Alison has an idol and plays it for Dan. It's null. Dan goes home. 
- Nobody plays an idol. Dan goes home. 
- The 4 actually have three idols and have won immunity. They play all of them. Dan's idol is null. Dan... goes home. 

YMMV, but I'd say in all those cases the nullifier was used correctly, in that it ensured the person you wanted out went home. Who actually had/played the idol is irrelevant. It's really less about the idol and more about the votes. It's an insurance policy. 

The only way to play it *incorrectly* is to play it when you don't have the numbers. So if two of the six had actually flipped, in which case whether or not Dan has an idol is irrelevant anyway, or if your alliance doesn't trust you one bit and has told you the wrong person to write down, in which case... you're screwed anyway. It's also near-useless if you're in the minority alliance (unless you also have an idol, and play *that* correctly). 

The only strategy, I guess, is deciding *when* to use it, whether it's better to hold it until 5/6 or use it at 11/10/9. 

But as I said, maybe I'm missing something. 

Actually, I’d hazard a guess along slightly different lines: the Nullifier is valuable only when you’re down in the numbers.

Continuing use of your 6-4 example - but this time, let’s have the underdogs get the Nullifier:

The majority alliance has one person commonly known within the group to be holding an idol, and suspects one of their targets within the 4 may/may not have an idol as well.  Splitting their votes 3-3 is an obvious option, but that presents a point of majority vulnerability and what is in fact the minority’s only chance to survive - the minority casting a 4-strong vote en masse for a single unprotected target.  

The majority’s counter-strategy?  Present a protected majority member - i.e., one with an idol - to the minority as an attractive target, to draw their vote.  This can be done more ways than I care to enumerate here, and can be done either with or without the agreement of the protected majority - but either way, doesn’t matter: just pass word before TC to the majority idol-holder s/he’s being targeted by the minority, the targeted majority member plays their idol, the minority vote is either totally eliminated or fragmented to the point of uselessness, and a minority member goes home.

Or so the majority thinks - but they’re wrong, because with the Nullifier in play there’s no longer any such thing as a protected player.  If the minority gets a whiff of a vote split all they have to do is cast a unified bloc vote, play the Nullifier on their target, and boom - a majority member walks to Ponderosa, idol or not.

[seacliffsal]

I am really enjoying this season.  And, this is the second time Elizabeth was able to get the target off of someone (herself this time) and onto someone else who did not see it coming.  Loved Natalia's reaction, especially as she already had stated that she would be fine with being voted out.  Ha!

Being a party of one, I wondered how hurt Bi's knee really was.  Last week it seemed like she saw herself as being placed on the wrong tribe and that she was proud of herself for being able to related to the other Davids.  She also had tied herself closely with Jessica (Jenna?) who was blindsided in the first episode and that viewed themselves as the "cool" kids of the David tribe.  Therefore, I had thoughts that the game wasn't really going the way Bi wanted it to go and so she quit with the convenience of a "hurt knee".  

I agree with others that Natalie's bossing of everyone would be really hard to take.  However, I also think that if they told her off or refused to follow her "orders" that she would make camp life even worse.  She seems like the kind of person who would yell at others something like "you don't like my attitude?  Well, let me show you what attitude REALLY is..."  In some situations it's easier to go along and bide one's time.  It's not like they are able to go home after a rough day at work with a horrible supervisor-they are there until they get a chance to vote her out.  I, too, would probably choose to just try to wait it out.  They also have opportunities to complain to each other which is a bonding opportunity that they might not otherwise have.

[Gummo]

42 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'd prefer just a straight-up Nullify after an idol has been played.

This is really the only way to make it work. 

[MissEwa]

6 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Actually, I’d hazard a guess along slightly different lines: the Nullifier is valuable only when you’re down in the numbers.

Continuing use of your 6-4 example - but this time, let’s have the underdogs get the Nullifier:

The majority alliance has one person commonly known within the group to be holding an idol, and suspects one of their targets within the 4 may/may not have an idol as well.  Splitting their votes 3-3 is an obvious option, but that presents a point of majority vulnerability and what is in fact the minority’s only chance to survive - the minority casting a 4-strong vote en masse for a single unprotected target.  

The majority’s counter-strategy?  Present a protected majority member - i.e., one with an idol - to the minority as an attractive target, to draw their vote.  This can be done more ways than I care to enumerate here, and can be done either with or without the agreement of the protected majority - but either way, doesn’t matter: just pass word before TC to the majority idol-holder s/he’s being targeted by the minority, the targeted majority member plays their idol, the minority vote is either totally eliminated or fragmented to the point of uselessness, and a minority member goes home.

Or so the majority thinks - but they’re wrong, because with the Nullifier in play there’s no longer any such thing as a protected player.  If the minority gets a whiff of a vote split all they have to do is cast a unified bloc vote, play the Nullifier on their target, and boom - a majority member walks to Ponderosa, idol or not.

Yep, if both sides have idols, then it could be useful for the minority too (although I'd still argue it's easier to use if you're in the majority). Using it from the minority successfully requires that a) you've got an idol and play it correctly OR b) the majority splits their votes, which is risky AF when they don't have a 2:1 margin, even with the above (and I feel like anyone who's seen even a second of survivor would be like 'why are they suggesting we vote Steve? He *clearly* has an idol. Let's vote Jane.' but we've seen plenty of boneheaded moves in the past, so it could happen). But you're right. 

My point was more against the idea that it's somehow hard to use, or requires any degree of correct knowledge/guesswork about idols. If you vote for someone, and use the nullifier, and they get the most (eligible) votes, the go home. Who has/plays idols is irrelevant. I think because it's called an 'idol nullifier' it's somehow being tied to knowledge about idols, but that's a misdirect - using it successfully only requires knowledge about votes. 

[ghoulina]

8 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I agree with others that Natalie's bossing of everyone would be really hard to take.  However, I also think that if they told her off or refused to follow her "orders" that she would make camp life even worse.  She seems like the kind of person who would yell at others something like "you don't like my attitude?  Well, let me show you what attitude REALLY is..."  In some situations it's easier to go along and bide one's time.  It's not like they are able to go home after a rough day at work with a horrible supervisor-they are there until they get a chance to vote her out.  I, too, would probably choose to just try to wait it out.  They also have opportunities to complain to each other which is a bonding opportunity that they might not otherwise have.

YES. She has shown to be a person of zero self-awareness. Jeremy tried to help her and she shot him right the fuck down. I have no doubt that if people stood up to her, it would NOT be some eye-opening experience that would cause her to modify her behavior. She'd totally just ratchet it up by several degrees. 

[Gummo]

11 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Jeremy tried to help her and she shot him right the fuck down

To be fair, Jeremy, even if he was right, was quite insulting and obnoxious about it.

[ljenkins782]

2 hours ago, MissEwa said:

How? It's not 'insider intel' to know who your alliance is voting for, that's what an alliance is. 

If you're not in one, then yeah, it's useless. 

ETA. It's why I don't like it. It's really only useful if you already have the numbers and there's not a lot of strategy to it. It's not hard to play, you just already have to be in a good position to do so (unlike other advantages/idols, which could potentially be useful from any position). 

That's what I said. If someone is already in a power position (ie, in a secure spot in a majority alliance with accurate information about the vote), this "advantage" isn't that big a deal. If you're already playing that well, the advantage is a maybe, possibly nice-to-have item, but not a potential game-changer the way an idol or an extra vote could be.

Quote

While I gave her flack for the whiny convo with Christian some episodes back, I did feel for her because on the outside looking in, it would be easy to say, "this is Survivor, just try to play the game, work an angle, etc." But I think being out in the environment, away from everything, it probably makes her feel even more vulnerable and if in her daily life she is already uncomfortable and threatened by people like a Dan, Angela, etc. That only gets heightened being in such a vulnerable position where she and Christian are outnumbered in the tribe. 

Absolutely. I think of it like going away to college for the first time, you're away from your circle of loved ones, living with new people that you didn't get to choose, except that in this game, people are actively against you because you're all in it for a million dollars. So take all of the insecurities and overwhelming new surroundings of a first time college dorm experience and add in the scheming, lying, and backstabbing of Survivor and I'm surprised we don't see people completely melting down every single day. 

[Matty]

I didn't even know who Alec was until last night. I like him now that he made a move. Not sure if it was the best move for him down the road but it was satisfying to see Natalia's bitter reaction to being voted off. I think Kara was in on the vote. Pretending she didn't know when Natalia turned around and pointedly asked her. I think she wanted to stay in Natalia's good graces. I don't know why since Natalia won't be on the jury. Maybe so she can stay in the Goliath's good graces when they merge into one tribe. She can tell them she was loyal to Goliath throughout the game and voted for Davey when Natalia got the boot. Natalia was paranoid and unpleasant. Another instance of someone thinking they're smarter than everyone else and the tribe members she treats condescendingly vote her out. Glad she's gone. Still like Christian and Gabby.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Matty

[cujo]

18 hours ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

Okay, so I'm really gonna need Christian to be hired as comptroller of Slamtown.

We just won't know if he got the job until the reunion show because John doesn't have access to his website to read over Christian's application.

[mojoween]

I’m finally getting to finish my blown fuse shortened episode and I was cracking up during the challenge.

Both Kara and Angelina directed their pushers to go “that way” or “this way” complete with hand gestures. 

Very helpful to the blindfolded people behind you, ladies!

[MisterBluxom]

36 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I’m finally getting to finish my blown fuse shortened episode and I was cracking up during the challenge.

Both Kara and Angelina directed their pushers to go “that way” or “this way” complete with hand gestures. 

Very helpful to the blindfolded people behind you, ladies!

ROFLMAO!

[violet and green]

19 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

man, she must have been reading 'Dictatorship For Dummies' before coming on. I was hoping she'd go home but usually, this being survivor, we can't have nice things.

Oh, that was the nicest of nice things!

Haven't been happier at a blindside/face slide in ages.

So glad Elizabeth got to stay.

Enjoyed Alec's face in tribal.

And thank god we no longer have Natalie and Natalia, as this thread made for hard reading, and I've also found Angelina and Natalia a bit hard to separate, aggressive-mugwise, so it's a win-win-win!

[cooksdelight]

Does anyone remember what he read on the instructions? Did it say he had to use it before, or after an idol was played?

[ProfCrash]

Before it is used. So he has to guess that it is going to be used and who it is going to be used on. 

[preeya]

Was late getting here. Two comments:

DON'T BE SORRY. SHUT UP!

Will someone please tell Angelina to change her pants. Those grey discolored tights are hideous.

[Kenzie]

"If I were being ordered by Natalie on which stick to pick up, where to put it, etc. .... I’d stand up, hand her the sticks, then walk off and do something else productive. I cannot stand that kind of “managing” people."

 

Hopefully Natalie's disposition will improve after she has an operation to remove all that kindling from her arse. :)

[backformore]

I hate that the men are allowed to be somewhat modest, but the women seem to be wearing underwear much of the time.   bathing suit bottoms are not shorts, and bras are not shirts.  I'm not a prude, but it seems that TPTB want women to be as unclothed as possible.   In some cases, it seems humiliating to be on TV in bikini bottoms, a shirt, and shoes or boots.  I don't think the women, for the most part, are choosing to be half-undressed while competing in challenges.  

[princelina]

9 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I agree with others that Natalie's bossing of everyone would be really hard to take.  However, I also think that if they told her off or refused to follow her "orders" that she would make camp life even worse.  She seems like the kind of person who would yell at others something like "you don't like my attitude?  Well, let me show you what attitude REALLY is..."  In some situations it's easier to go along and bide one's time.  It's not like they are able to go home after a rough day at work with a horrible supervisor-they are there until they get a chance to vote her out.  I, too, would probably choose to just try to wait it out.  They also have opportunities to complain to each other which is a bonding opportunity that they might not otherwise have.

I think it is satisfying to picture yourself saying something and stalking off with the whole group in tow, but in Survivor especially I think I would wimp out because I would be afraid of stalking off alone and then being on the outside.

 

8 hours ago, Gummo said:

To be fair, Jeremy, even if he was right, was quite insulting and obnoxious about it.

In week 1 I thought he was trying to be nice (we're black and have to stick together) and it didn't work then either :). She's just an asshole who's playing hard for 2nd place.

Edited October 19, 2018 by princelina

[mythoughtis]

I no longer feel sorry for any Goliath that is made miserable by Natalie, they had the chance to vote  her out- they didn’t.  ‘Generic David member’ and Lyrsa have my sympathy for now as they haven’t had a chance to vote  her out.  Whatever version of a tribe that next goes to tribal with her should either vote her out or stop complaining. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by mythoughtis
changed Mike to generic ‘David’. Can’t remember which David moved with Lyrsa to this tribe.

[SVNBob]

5 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Does anyone remember what he read on the instructions? Did it say he had to use it before, or after an idol was played?

 

5 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Before it is used. So he has to guess that it is going to be used and who it is going to be used on. 

Specifically, he has to use it as he votes.  The Nullifier has to be put inside the urn with along with the name of the person to whom it will apply.  So that'll definitively be before the idol is played, unless someone tries to pull a Ben-bomb.

[cooksdelight]

3 hours ago, backformore said:

I hate that the men are allowed to be somewhat modest, but the women seem to be wearing underwear much of the time.   bathing suit bottoms are not shorts, and bras are not shirts.  I'm not a prude, but it seems that TPTB want women to be as unclothed as possible.   In some cases, it seems humiliating to be on TV in bikini bottoms, a shirt, and shoes or boots.  I don't think the women, for the most part, are choosing to be half-undressed while competing in challenges.  

I was told years ago, production picks their outfits from what they bring with them. They are sequestered at the Sheraton near LAX before leaving. While otherwise engaged, production goes through their luggage and removes anything they want. How else did The Specialist have only pink underwear?

[jumper sage]

15 hours ago, Gummo said:

16 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'd prefer just a straight-up Nullify after an idol has been played.

This is really the only way to make it work. 

@Nashville - I see your point too.

My questions for the masses is this:

• How long will it take for Carl to blab about the nullifier?
• At some point will he have to bring in others for it to work?

ETA 

Quote

Only an assassin with great information can execute the nullifier properly.

Quote by Probst.  Should this be in the media thread even if it directly answers a question from this episode?

6 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I was told years ago, production picks their outfits from what they bring with them. They are sequestered at the Sheraton near LAX before leaving. While otherwise engaged, production goes through their luggage and removes anything they want. How else did The Specialist have only pink underwear?

After 30 years on tv I have been watching The Simpsons when the topic is current to my entertainment.  I loved this past episode where Marge and Homer go on the reality show The Amazing Place.  Kind of a marriage of The Amazing Race and Survivor.  The location, Survivor like, takes place next to an airport and hotel.

Edited October 19, 2018 by jumper sage
I just don't know

[Bryce Lynch]

On 10/17/2018 at 10:41 PM, mojoween said:

Who’s the southern half of Mason-Dixon, is that Nick?

Goddamn is he annoying with needing an alliance name for every person he has a conversation with.

I’m disappointed in Mike, honestly, for being so eager to go along with it.

While it seems silly, on Survivor Know it Alls they say that it really is tougher to betray an alliance that has a name.

[Eolivet]

I don't know if it's because they're starving, but very few Survivor alliances have had names, right? (or names we've seen). I'm only remembering the Four Horsemen. Parvati's Micronesia alliance didn't really have a name, right? I've only ever called the Aitu 4 "the Aitu 4." (oh god, now I'm remembering Triforce, ugh). But I feel like named alliances number in the 1-10 range for a show that's been on the air for now 36+ seasons.

As others have said, it's such a Big Brother thing that it always strikes me as odd when they do it on Survivor. And now that Nick has done it twice, it does make me wonder what show he originally applied for.

[ProfCrash]

Nick has named three alliances, one with horses with Elizabeth, Mason-Dixon and the new rock star one. Nick has a thing for naming alliances. He needs to go for that reason alone. But he can leave after Natalie. I needed her voted out when they first had the opportunity.

[RescueMom]

48 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

I don't know if it's because they're starving, but very few Survivor alliances have had names, right? (or names we've seen). I'm only remembering the Four Horsemen. Parvati's Micronesia alliance didn't really have a name, right? I've only ever called the Aitu 4 "the Aitu 4." (oh god, now I'm remembering Triforce, ugh). But I feel like named alliances number in the 1-10 range for a show that's been on the air for now 36+ seasons.

As others have said, it's such a Big Brother thing that it always strikes me as odd when they do it on Survivor. And now that Nick has done it twice, it does make me wonder what show he originally applied for.

Did Parvati’s alliance call themselves the Black Widow Brigade during the show, or was that coined after? I do remember the Three Amigos in FvF2  as well.  But alliance names were pretty few and far between until Nick came along!

Edited October 19, 2018 by RescueMom
Wrong season!

[ProfCrash]

There have been names for past alliances, I can't remember most of them, but they have always developed more organically. Or, at least, that is how I remember them. Honestly, I can't remember if many of the names came from people on the boards, other people playing the games, or jokingly among the people in the alliance.  I do not remember anyone sitting down and saying "Let's name our alliance."

[Bryce Lynch]

I love the concept of the nullifier, but they made it way, too weak.  It seems highly unlikely that it will be used successfully.   You would have to know (or guess) who has the idol, that person would have to be your enemy in the game, and you'd have to correctly guess when they are going to use it.

The only positive is that if the nullifier becomes a regular thing, perhaps idiots will stop blabbing about the idols they find.

I'd prefer a nullifier that could be used after any idols are played.  Or at least let the player write down as many names to nullify idols for, as he wants, when he votes.  

[Eolivet]

I think what's so unusual about Nick is he's naming two-person alliances, and that's classic Big Brother (Chilltown, the Renegades, the Hitmen, Coast2Coast, etc.) I mean, JT and Stephen were just "JT and Stephen." Dom and Wendell were just "Dom and Wendell." Rob and Amber ... well, you know.

I'm not sure I can remember a named two-person alliance on Survivor, but I could be wrong.

20 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I love the concept of the nullifier, but they made it way, too weak.  It seems highly unlikely that it will be used successfully.   You would have to know (or guess) who has the idol, that person would have to be your enemy in the game, and you'd have to correctly guess when they are going to use it.

@SnideAsides pointed out this was used on Australian Survivor last year (as part of a super-idol -- one regular idol and one idol nullifier: two great tastes that taste great together?). But I remember it as being pretty anticlimactic? Or it took out someone pretty irrelevant? It's one of those things that sounds better than it ends up playing out onscreen, if I recall correctly.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Eolivet

[Bryce Lynch]

49 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

There have been names for past alliances, I can't remember most of them, but they have always developed more organically. Or, at least, that is how I remember them. Honestly, I can't remember if many of the names came from people on the boards, other people playing the games, or jokingly among the people in the alliance.  I do not remember anyone sitting down and saying "Let's name our alliance."

I think Nick may have invented alliance naming as a strategy.  It seem like a sound one.  Both, Christian and Mike seemed pretty enamored with their named alliances.  

I think alliances are like farm animals, such as ducks or pigs.  If you name them, it is emotionally harder to kill them.  

[marys1000]

Kudos to you all that are trying to figure out the nullifier.  Even the detailed descriptions are beyond me.  I agree with whoever said that Carl has so far seemed out of the loop.  He is also not a superfan or fan?  He seemed like he knew how to use it when he read it which surprised me.  I wonder if the crew had been there explaining it to him.  Anyway good luck Carl trying to make that work for you.  I figure he'll need help so it may be an alliance effort. 

Natalia.  Probst was talking about how she was an instant cast because they liked her direct style blah blah and that she would be a candidate for a return.  That being a good player doesn't mean you won't go home early.  Anyway while I certainly understand why people were glad to see her leave I feel the opposite.  At least she was playing.  At least Jeremy was playing.  They gave us something to watch.  While the Mike's of the season are just......a big zero.  Sure, whatever you say.  I'm really disappointed in Mike.  I think he could have saved Jeremy and sent Natalie home fairly easily without too much blowback, but he, and others, are just...... waiting for the game to come to them. 

Was Kara crying about Alec not keeping her in the loop in that secret scene?  Not sure Alec didn't just play too hard (but thank you because players who don't play make for a boring under the radar season).  It was fun to watch and will be fun to see how it plays out.  

Gabby.....still to much crying!  Which would be ok if I didn't feel like she was using it to manipulate Christian and others.  There is a new woman on your team- go talk to Alison! 

 

Natalie.  Its an interesting question to ask yourself.  Do you push back on her bossing you around and have conflict, or do you just let her continue to annoy everyone so they want to vote her out instead of you?  I also wonder if its white people not wanting to engage black woman.  

I thought the funniest line was Davy "I've never actually talked to many white people" (paraphrased).    Too bad Jeremy is gone.  I think a black alliance would have been fun.  Watch the twittersphere burn down!

Having trouble remembering - so Carl is a David, Davey is a David, Elizabeth is a David.  Alec, Kara and ? are Goliaths.  Is it even then on that team now or do David's now have the numbers?  Does this mean Alec has totally jumped ship to the David's or was this a one off defection?  It will be interesting to see if there are ripples from this.  

Will there be two more episodes before merge?  Usually its at about 12 or so right?

Alison seems to have gotten the least show time and I'd like to see more of her from what little I've seen.  They seem to have gone dark on Lyrsa as well. 

Not sure why everyone is giving Bee a pass on quitting.  All she had to do was sit out a challenge and let them vote her out.  Why quit?  Or just sit out challenges and help her alliance maintain voting numbers.  You don't have to quit unless you think you need immediate surgery on that tendon or something.  I'm sure they would give her anti inflammatories.  We've seen other injuried players actually be carried to the beach.  Yes I know its her career.  But frankly if her tendon has torn  for the second time I think her career is in jeopardy anyway.                          If I hear that she went into surgery fine.  Otherwise I think its a bit crap that she quit.  Makes recruits look bad too.  Everyone who likes "unspoiled" recruited players - well this is the sort of thing that convinces casting that they are a bad bet.  When some of my favorite players have been unspoiled recruitees (the Tony Soprano guy was great).  On the other hand she seemed a bit like a boring player so far so maybe no great loss.  

Edited October 19, 2018 by marys1000

[phlebas]

Fully on board the Gabby love train.  I'm also a technical writer, and I was darned proud of my little adopted nerd girl for beasting through the whole "giving instructions to people" thing. Clear and concise makes a good software User's Guide and it apparently makes for effective teamwork.

[peachmangosteen]

31 minutes ago, marys1000 said:

Having trouble remembering - so Carl is a David, Davey is a David, Elizabeth is a David.  Alec, Kara and ? are Goliaths.  Is it even then on that team now or do David's now have the numbers?  Does this mean Alec has totally jumped ship to the David's or was this a one off defection?  It will be interesting to see if there are ripples from this.  

 

Alec's tribe is now himself/Kara from Goliath and Carl/Elizabeth/Davie from David, so Goliath is now a minority in that tribe.

Quote

Not sure why everyone is giving Bee a pass on quitting.  All she had to do was sit out a challenge and let them vote her out.  Why quit?  Or just sit out challenges and help her alliance maintain voting numbers. 

She would only be able to sit out challenges if the tribe she was on had more people than the other, which the Davids did not. And even with the tribe swap she was unlikely to be able to sit out.

Edited October 19, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[Bryce Lynch]

59 minutes ago, marys1000 said:

Kudos to you all that are trying to figure out the nullifier.  Even the detailed descriptions are beyond me.  I agree with whoever said that Carl has so far seemed out of the loop.  He is also not a superfan or fan?  He seemed like he knew how to use it when he read it which surprised me.  I wonder if the crew had been there explaining it to him.  Anyway good luck Carl trying to make that work for you.  I figure he'll need help so it may be an alliance effort. 

Natalia.  Probst was talking about how she was an instant cast because they liked her direct style blah blah and that she would be a candidate for a return.  That being a good player doesn't mean you won't go home early.  Anyway while I certainly understand why people were glad to see her leave I feel the opposite.  At least she was playing.  At least Jeremy was playing.  They gave us something to watch.  While the Mike's of the season are just......a big zero.  Sure, whatever you say.  I'm really disappointed in Mike.  I think he could have saved Jeremy and sent Natalie home fairly easily without too much blowback, but he, and others, are just...... waiting for the game to come to them. 

Was Kara crying about Alec not keeping her in the loop in that secret scene?  Not sure Alec didn't just play too hard (but thank you because players who don't play make for a boring under the radar season).  It was fun to watch and will be fun to see how it plays out.  

Gabby.....still to much crying!  Which would be ok if I didn't feel like she was using it to manipulate Christian and others.  There is a new woman on your team- go talk to Alison! 

 

Natalie.  Its an interesting question to ask yourself.  Do you push back on her bossing you around and have conflict, or do you just let her continue to annoy everyone so they want to vote her out instead of you?  I also wonder if its white people not wanting to engage black woman.  

I thought the funniest line was Davy "I've never actually talked to many white people" (paraphrased).    Too bad Jeremy is gone.  I think a black alliance would have been fun.  Watch the twittersphere burn down!

Having trouble remembering - so Carl is a David, Davey is a David, Elizabeth is a David.  Alec, Kara and ? are Goliaths.  Is it even then on that team now or do David's now have the numbers?  Does this mean Alec has totally jumped ship to the David's or was this a one off defection?  It will be interesting to see if there are ripples from this.  

Will there be two more episodes before merge?  Usually its at about 12 or so right?

Alison seems to have gotten the least show time and I'd like to see more of her from what little I've seen.  They seem to have gone dark on Lyrsa as well. 

Not sure why everyone is giving Bee a pass on quitting.  All she had to do was sit out a challenge and let them vote her out.  Why quit?  Or just sit out challenges and help her alliance maintain voting numbers.  You don't have to quit unless you think you need immediate surgery on that tendon or something.  I'm sure they would give her anti inflammatories.  We've seen other injuried players actually be carried to the beach.  Yes I know its her career.  But frankly if her tendon has torn  for the second time I think her career is in jeopardy anyway.                          If I hear that she went into surgery fine.  Otherwise I think its a bit crap that she quit.  Makes recruits look bad too.  Everyone who likes "unspoiled" recruited players - well this is the sort of thing that convinces casting that they are a bad bet.  When some of my favorite players have been unspoiled recruitees (the Tony Soprano guy was great).  On the other hand she seemed a bit like a boring player so far so maybe no great loss.  

 

I don't think Mike could have saved Jeremy.  The tribe voted unanimously to send him home.

Regarding Natalie, I think the others are just biding their time and waiting for her to self destruct.  Jeremy took her on directly and he ended up sinking to her level (or maybe even beneath it) and got himself voted off.  I believe there has only been one opportunity to vote her out, so far.

It will be interesting to see if the other 2 Goliaths on her current tribe (Angelina and Mike) want to stay "Goliath Strong" with her or want to get that miserable human being off their tribe and off our TV screens.    I suspect Mike could join Nick and Lyrsa to oust her.  He wasn't really one of the "cool kids" in the Goliath tribe, anyway and he has a named (and therefore unbreakable LOL) alliance with Nick. 

There is an Allison? :) 

I liked Bi, but I tend to agree.  She could have at least stayed until after the next immunity challenge to spare another tribe member.  In the past, I would have expected an athlete to be tougher than a normal person in dealing with an injury.  But, it seems like, more and more, athletes are losing that warrior mentality and are protecting their bodies and future earnings.  (See Kawhi Leanord, Nick Bosa, and all the college football players who sit out bowl games to stay healthy for the draft.)  After seeing Isaiah Thomas lose maybe $100 million by playing hurt in the 2017 playoffs, I guess I can't blame them.   

43 minutes ago, phlebas said:

Fully on board the Gabby love train.  I'm also a technical writer, and I was darned proud of my little adopted nerd girl for beasting through the whole "giving instructions to people" thing. Clear and concise makes a good software User's Guide and it apparently makes for effective teamwork.

I am sort of on the fence about Gabby.  But, great point about her profession making her the perfect person to be a caller in challenges.   

34 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

She would only be able to sit out challenges if the tribe she was on had more people than the other, which the Davids did not. And even with the tribe swap she was unlikely to be able to sit out.

They probably would not have done the swap until next week, if she hadn't tapped out.  She could have at least waited to see what the immunity challenge was, and see if their was a non-physically taxing role she could take in it.  

Edited October 19, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[peachmangosteen]

22 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The probably would not have done the swap until next week, if she hadn't tapped out. 

Probst said they were dong the swap then regardless. Now, that doesn't really make sense, but that's what he said.

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 12:03 AM, backformore said:

I don't get why they all jump to obey her commands.  "You two- start the fire!  You - get the pot ready!"  Come on, let's do it."  as she sits and watches, then micro-manages the fire, "Put the light piece on -  right there!  come on!"  

And not one person says something like "How about YOU do it?"  

Sometimes I like Christian.  And then he seems like he's doing an impression of Woody Allen, and my love fades.  

I think at some point I would be tempted to just ignore her and then fake that I wasn't hearing what she said. Natalie: "barking commands". Me: just doing whatever I feel need to be done. Natalie: eventually gets my attention and "I told you do . .!" and I respond in my most innocent voice "you did???? oh, sorry, I must not have heard you. I'll try to listen better next time." and just keep doing it.

I think Alec's move may not benefit him long term--definitely high risk given David will have numbers--however, Natalia made clear she was not tight with him. It's not like he would end up post-merge with a strong bond with her. So, I think it's either (a) you made an awesome move that is the beginning of your run to the end (less likely) or (b) you made a move and as a result you go out in X place--but without the same move, you'd go out a few votes later. So, there is some argument for go ahead. It may just work.

I was glad Gabby did well on the challenge and hope she can stop being so whiney. I get it--you are short on sleep and the situation you are in is not good. On the other hand, it was entirely possible if they'd gone to tribal the Goliath people would have said "Christian is great but it's scary how easily he bonds with everyone; he's super smart and a real threat; let's dump him now. this Gabby person is no threat to anybody."

[Bryce Lynch]

12 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Probst said they were dong the swap then regardless. Now, that doesn't really make sense, but that's what he said.

So, would they have sent 2 people to Exile Island and have them race each other as well as the tide to find the advantage coconut?

Edited October 19, 2018 by Bryce Lynch