S03.E02 A Philadelphia Story

[Soup333]

14 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I did find this on YouTube:  See specific scene at 1:05 .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIDnVI1Kbh0

Thanks for that. I enjoyed watching that scene again. 

I wish Kate would considerToby’s fears for her safety. In last week’s episode he said he was relieved they’d been turned down but when they got the go ahead she was gung ho and they didn’t discuss how he’s admitted to feeling about the process. 

Her characterization is a little all over the place. In S1 she was self-sacrificing for her brother’s sake and now she’s selfish in some ways. I don’t see how teenage Kate could even turn into S1 Kate right now. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

 

I don't have any recordings or transcripts and I wasn't expecting to have to find documentation (with specific scenes), anymore than the people who say she doesn't like children have provided proof,  but I definitely remember Kate playing a game with the little girls, sitting on the sofa with  them cuddled up to her,  and other background moments that made it look, to me at least, like she loved them and was close to them.

I did find this on YouTube:  See specific scene at 1:05 .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIDnVI1Kbh0

Didn't Kate bring all those balloons to William's memorial?  The girls were in charge of planning it and they must have felt a comfort level with their aunt to ask her.  I may not be remembering that right. 

[ams1001]

11 hours ago, LakeLover said:

Oh, I love this story. When I was pregnant with our second, I recall relaxing in the afternoon and after talking about it, deciding if we had a girl (this was 30 years ago when we didn't know ahead of time), we'd name her "Alexis" (not her real name). That night, we got a call from my husband's stepfather telling us his son and daughter-in-law had just had a baby girl and they named her Alexis. We looked at each other and smiled. Three months later, we did have our second of three daughters and we named her Alexis. When we told his mom and stepfather, stepfather said, "But we ALREADY have an Alexis in the family!" Husband said, "Now we have two."

 

We never met the "other" Alexis. Not even a single time. Moral of the story? Name your child what you want to name her or him. How many Italian families have three "Frankies"? Heh. Mine does.

We have two Jeffs - Jeff 1 was my cousin and Jeff 2 is married to another cousin. Two Charleses (father and son). My first name is my mom's middle name, which she goes by, so there are two of us. Somehow we've spent numerous holidays, etc. together as a family and managed not to get terribly confused. (We also have a "TJ" on either side of the family, but one lives several states away and they don't know each other. That's just a coincidence, though; I don't think their mothers, who are my cousins, have ever even met.)

 

3 hours ago, roughing it said:

How did she and Miguel get together?    

Well, we know they lost touch at some point and reconnected when Tess was born, because in that episode Beth helps Rebecca set up a Facebook account so she can connect to them and see baby pictures. Shortly after they do that, Miguel sends her a friend request and it's clear they haven't spoken in a long time. I hope they are planning to give us more of what happened after that. (And before that; how/why did they lose touch? IIRC, in the Facebook scene we learn Miguel moved to Florida or somewhere. Was that why they lost touch? Did they have a falling out and he moved sometime after that? Was it just too hard for her to remain friends with him? Inquiring minds want to know.)

[AllThatJazz91]

On 10/3/2018 at 12:18 PM, Empress1 said:

We know that Beth was raised in a very full house - she told William so in the scene where they got high (one of my favorite scenes). Parents, siblings, and I think aunts and cousins (we now know Zoe lived with them) too, in a house with one bathroom. That reads more modestly to me.

I haven't seen the episode yet but I'm already irked at Kate. I'm growing to really dislike her. 

I'm from Philly (it's with a y, never seen it spelled any other way) so I'm curious to see how it's depicted.

I remember her mentioning that. But isn't she going to get an episode of her own this season? If so I'm sure we'll finally learn much more about her. I would love to meet even just one of her sisters. 

3 hours ago, Soup333 said:

Thanks for that. I enjoyed watching that scene again. 

I wish Kate would considerToby’s fears for her safety. In last week’s episode he said he was relieved they’d been turned down but when they got the go ahead she was gung ho and they didn’t discuss how he’s admitted to feeling about the process. 

Her characterization is a little all over the place. In S1 she was self-sacrificing for her brother’s sake and now she’s selfish in some ways. I don’t see how teenage Kate could even turn into S1 Kate right now. 

I don't know what it is about her, but she's a hard character to like. I'm always on the fence about her. Even the younger versions of her are just eh to me. Except the youngest one. I do like that version of her. 

[Ohmo]

On 10/3/2018 at 4:50 PM, mishap said:

if he does, she can explain that she was simply talking genetics. 

Where I disagree with you is that I don't think Kate meant it as a "simple" thing.  At all.  There has been many a time where she has acted as though she owns all grief associated with losing her father.  She had the urn with Jack's ashes.  We never saw either one of the boys with it.  I agree with the poster (but can't find the post) who said that it seems like Kate intentionally shuts out Randall and Kevin when it comes to mourning the loss of Jack.  I've also wondered at times if one of the reasons that Rebecca and Kate always clash is because Kate harbors some sort of jealousy toward her mother.  Rebecca also (obviously) had a relationship with Jack, but Kate acts like her father-daughter bond is the only one that matters---and to heck with how anyone else interacted with Jack.

ETA:

Quote

Does that mean any woman who wants the experience of growing and giving birth to a child is an arrogant racist who only wants a mini-me or mini-other relative to dress up? I was thrilled when my baby looked just like my husband, does that mean I didn't know he would be passing on other, more important things than his looks? Did it mean I only wanted a mini-husband to dress up in little jeans?  Where is all this coming from?

Judy, speaking for myself, there is a difference between you and Kate.  If you will allow me to cross forums, we both like crime shows.  The two of us interact a good bit in various forums.  Based on posts, I'd say that you're a thoughtful person more than you're not.  My opinion of Kate. on the other hand is she tends to think of herself first and way more often than she thinks of anyone else.  In other words, the opposite of you.  Thoughtless instead of thoughtful.  Her "worldview" starts and ends with her, so while you simply were talking about genetics, I don't think Kate was simply talking about genetics.  Kate likes to see things in terms of Kate. and she likes to remind everyone of that (whether she's consciously aware of it or not.)  If the writers genuinely want less animosity toward Kate, in my opinion that have to dial her self-absorbed behavior back about five notches.  Honestly, it's coming across like it's being blared in stereo.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Ohmo

[Scarlett45]

23 hours ago, SueB said:

Implied in the comment: Kevin won't have children because he can't maintain a decent relationship.  Also implied, adoption is inadequate (and therefore Randall's identity is flawed).  Both are pretty shitty implications.  And I'm not sure she fully realizes that's what she's implying.  Because, again, self-centered.  And I LIKE Kate.  But she needs to get some therapy and some perspective.

Very much this. 

I haven’t seen this mentioned up thread BUT as insensitive as her comment was (in regards to Randall), it didn’t make any sense to me in regards to Kevin. In what world do children only come from “settling down”, especially if you’re talking about a MAN (with almost a full lifetime of reproductive capabilities a head of him) and a good looking man who’s always going to have the opportunity to have sex with pre-menopausal women......ummm yeah that makes no sense. Kevin could procreate at any time. 

[ShortyMac]

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

We have two Jeffs - Jeff 1 was my cousin and Jeff 2 is married to another cousin. Two Charleses (father and son). My first name is my mom's middle name, which she goes by, so there are two of us. Somehow we've spent numerous holidays, etc. together as a family and managed not to get terribly confused. (We also have a "TJ" on either side of the family, but one lives several states away and they don't know each other. That's just a coincidence, though; I don't think their mothers, who are my cousins, have ever even met.)

The family my sister married into already had an 'H,' her husband's sister. Now, there's two of them and they'll use their middle names to distinguish them when there's a gathering, it's funny.

Edited October 5, 2018 by ShortyMac

[Ohmo]

40 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I haven’t seen this mentioned up thread BUT as insensitive as her comment was (in regards to Randall), it didn’t make any sense to me in regards to Kevin. In what world do children only come from “settling down”, especially if you’re talking about a MAN (with almost a full lifetime of reproductive capabilities a head of him) and a good looking man who’s always going to have the opportunity to have sex with pre-menopausal women......ummm yeah that makes no sense. Kevin could procreate at any time. 

In terms of Kevin, I think what she was implying was that Kevin will always "play the field" and not want to have children tying him down.  That, in her opinion, he would never "mature" that much.  At least that's how it came across to me.

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, ShortyMac said:

The family my sister married into already had an 'H,' her husband's sister. Now, there's two of them and they'll use their middle names to distinguish them when there's a gathering, it's funny.

The same cousin who married Jeff 2 also dated a guy with the same name as my brother (but spelled differently).

[Scarlett45]

14 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

In terms of Kevin, I think what she was implying was that Kevin will always "play the field" and not want to have children tying him down.  That, in her opinion, he would never "mature" that much.  At least that's how it came across to me.

No I get that, but that’s silly. 1. For men being a father (in the biological sense, which is what she’s focusing on), means having an orgasm. The end. 2. She’s no more mature than Kevin is, just cause she’s now partnered. 

I do like Kate (besides her attitude towards her Mom, which IMO is always uncalled for), but that statement was full of lofty delusions of grandeur and a disregard for the biology of her male twins role in procreation while she’s focusing on biology. 

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

In what world do children only come from “settling down”, especially if you’re talking about a MAN (with almost a full lifetime of reproductive capabilities a head of him) and a good looking man who’s always going to have the opportunity to have sex with pre-menopausal women......ummm yeah that makes no sense. Kevin could procreate at any time. 

Yeah, I still think at some point during this show's run, Kevin is going to find out he has a kid from a one-night stand or something.

My sister's baby daddy has two other baby mama's, so yeah.

Also, check out Alec Baldwin with his late in life kids he came by courtesy of his 30-something spouse. I mean, yeah, Kevin has plenty of opportunities for kids either biological or adopted.

Edited October 5, 2018 by methodwriter85

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/2/2018 at 10:11 PM, bettername2come said:

On 10/2/2018 at 10:01 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Kate saying that Kevin's future kids won't look like Jack (thanks, Kate!) 

In fairness to Kate, I think her point was Kevin seems unlikely to settle down and have kids. Not that she wasn't rude about it.

Correct. Kate was saying that only she would have Jack's biological grandchildren, and thus would be the only one to carry on Jack's legacy.  Randall is not able to pass on Jack's legacy to Tess and Annie because he is not Jack's biological child. She negated Randall's relationship to Jack. It didn't occur to Kevin that repeating Kate's words to Randall would hurt him worse than they had originally hurt Kevin, but for a different reason. 

[biakbiak]

16 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Randall is not able to pass on Jack's legacy

To be DNA does not equal legacy. 

[debraran]

13 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

This is only the second episode of this series that I have watched.  When I get time, I will have to read the recaps of all of the previous seasons/episodes so that I can get more familiar with the history of the characters.

Kate gained weight as a youngster do to stress, depression, anxiety.  If she was taught to deal with stress, anxiety, depression in a more constructive manner than destructive, she wouldn't have a weight problem as an adult.  If her mother had  tried to control her eating habits as a child, Kate could have turned to drugs, cigarettes, underage sex or alcohol, etc.   If she had led her child down the path of meditation and exercise in an effort to deal withe stress, depression, anxiety, Kate would be a much healthier person physically and happy mentally.

Over an extended period of time, even if an individual learns to deal with stress in a more constructive manner, overeating can become so habitual, it becomes a secondary problem all on its own.

It was incredibly stupid for Toby to flush his medication.  All of a sudden an empty bottle which shouldn't be empty or a missing medicine bottle that shouldn't be missing would be easily noticed.    If he wanted to be really sneaky about it, he would have a secondary pill bottle and just remove one pill from the primary bottle to the secondary bottle and kept the secondary bottle hidden.  That way it would still look like he was taking his medications.  For environmental reasons, medications shouldn't be flushed anyways.  Plus medications are really expensive.  If/when Kate becomes pregnant, I would imagine Toby would go back on his medications, so again there was no need to flush them.

It is incredibly stupid to go old turkey off of any medication without a doctor's approval.  Especially when Toby doesn't look like he is in the best of shape to begin with.

Rebecca did try to give Kate healthy foods and I think it wasn't "just her" which would be odd, but a family thing. There was an episode where it seemed more like a punishment for lack of a better word. What's wrong with fruit salad or popcorn (my fav) without a butter or a lot of it? There was an episode camping when Jack tried to get Kate to run and play outside and she didn't want too, and then the ice cream scene came but why not a family hike or game? It was odd watching this family in pieces but any time you single out someone it hurts and makes them feel differently. If Kate didn't like hiking, biking, how about swimming or dance or whatever she likes. I hated sports but loved to walk as a kid and walked off my icecream and snacks doing that and swimming.  Why did Rebecca's character buy pop tarts and have unlimited cookies it seemed.

Even when Kate lost weight, she didn't see herself that way, the issues started young but I wish they didn't have her weight gain be all about Jack. I realize they had to have a reason for the jump in weight but it seems like you are watching a car wreck and can't help, so many family members needed a little help and didn't get it. Jack would hate seeing her so emotionally stunted after so many years, I wish that thought would help her focus on getting help.

The girls who play Kate are superb and the teen Kate is so much like her, I forget it's not a younger her. ; )   The younger stars are all excellent.

[biakbiak]

35 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

incredibly stupid to go old turkey off of any medication without a doctor's approval.  Especially when Toby doesn't look like he is in the best of shape to begin with.

Yes it’s not wise but it’s also all too common.

[plurie]

16 hours ago, izabella said:

Unless he already applied to other schools closer to home, he will be deferring college if he doesn't go to Howard.  He could maybe go to a community college (I don't know the application rules for that), but any other college has already filled their freshman classes and has waiting lists if anyone drops out, like Randall did.

I'm pretty sure he applied to more than one college, and it would be likely that at least one of them was closer to home than Howard. We don't know how much time had passed between his receipt of the acceptance letter from Howard and his phone call. It's entirely possible that there are still other colleges in play that have or will accept him.

[biakbiak]

10 minutes ago, plurie said:

IWe don't know how much time had passed between his receipt of the acceptance letter from Howard and his phone call. It's entirely possible that there are still other colleges in play that have or will accept him.

I Am pretty sure it’s the same day. He comes into the kitchen in the morning and Rebecca tells him they are going to an open house and than gives him the Howard envelope. He calls his friend/mother from the pool that day and is invited over to their house that night for dinner, they go to the open house, he and Rebecca have the convos at the open house and before he goes to the party  and then seeing the couple dance realizes his mom needs support so calls when he comes back from the party and is wearing the same clothes when he calls.

Edited October 5, 2018 by biakbiak

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

I am pretty sure it’s the same day.

And an echo of Super Bowl Sunday only a few months before. Randall is sent off for the evening, by one of his parents, to go be with his friends. But this time no girlfriend in sight, and Randall's thoughts aren't on his own life. He again returns to a darkened house but no Jack in the kitchen to push him to confide about his first kiss. "I assume you were a perfect gentleman..." 

He's trying. Picking up the phone he calls the historically black college he first saw with his father -- has only ever seen with his father -- and politely declines their acceptance, in order to serve his family.

[Katy M]

23 minutes ago, Pallas said:

He's trying. Picking up the phone he calls the historically black college he first saw with his father -- has only ever seen with his father -- and politely declines their acceptance, in order to serve his family.

It's a little weird that there was someone in the Admission's office so late in the evening, on what I assume was a Saturday to boot (they seemed to have the day free to go look at a house, and if he just got his acceptance, school wouldn't be out for the summer yet).

[biakbiak]

Just now, Katy M said:

It's a little weird that there was someone in the Admission's office so late in the evening, on what I assume was a Saturday to boot (they seemed to have the day free to go look at a house, and if he just got his acceptance, school wouldn't be out for the summer yet).

He was leaving a message not talking to a person.

[PRgal]

Come to think of it, I'm not sure if the admissions office would take a voicemail seriously.  They will still call the Pearsons to either speak with Randall in person or to Rebecca (since, as someone upthread pointed out, Randall is under 18).

 

On names:  I know someone whose sister-in-law has the same name as she does.  Luckily, my friend is married and took her husband's name. 
 

ETA: Are K-8 schools common in the part of New Jersey Randall and his family live in?  I'm wondering, since Deja is middle school aged.

Edited October 5, 2018 by PRgal

[Pallas]

10 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

He was leaving a message not talking to a person.

Deliberately, I think. He called late at night before he had a chance to talk himself out of it. And when there was no one around to hear, at either end: not Rebecca or his siblings at home, and not an admissions officer who might be disappointed or worse, sympathetic.   

[topanga]

59 minutes ago, Pallas said:

And an echo of Super Bowl Sunday only a few months before. Randall is sent off for the evening, by one of his parents, to go be with his friends. But this time no girlfriend in sight, and Randall's thoughts aren't on his own life. He again returns to a darkened house but no Jack in the kitchen to push him to confide about his first kiss. "I assume you were a perfect gentleman..." 

What happened to Randall's red-headed girlfriend? Or Kevin's girlfriend--(Sophie, right? His future wife). I would imagine they would still be around during these tough days unless the boys pushed them away. 

[Jillybean]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

What happened to Randall's red-headed girlfriend? Or Kevin's girlfriend--(Sophie, right? His future wife). I would imagine they would still be around during these tough days unless the boys pushed them away. 

I was also wondering this, along with the dog.

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

I was also wondering this, along with the dog.

Last we heard of the dog, Kate wanted to find him a new home.  So, I'm assuming she did.

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, PRgal said:

Are K-8 schools common in the part of New Jersey Randall and his family live in?  I'm wondering, since Deja is middle school aged.

I think so. Many schools around the country are k-8, and then 9-12. I didn’t know “middle school/jr high” was a thing until tv shows/books detailed them. 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Scarlett45

[Soup333]

7 hours ago, topanga said:

What happened to Randall's red-headed girlfriend? Or Kevin's girlfriend--(Sophie, right? His future wife). I would imagine they would still be around during these tough days unless the boys pushed them away. 

I wondered about that too. That’s the part of Kevin’s story I’m most interested in. What happened from Jack’s death that lead him to marry Sophie, stop drinking (at least temporarily) and start acting. Was she his Rebecca as far as supporting him through the hard times? I think he cheated on her?? What lead to that? 

I’m more interested in his backstory that his present story. I don’t really care much about his relationship with Beth’s cousin. 

[MBayGal]

On 10/3/2018 at 4:40 AM, Katy M said:

[Rebecca] was trying to keep it in but Kate kept pushing her. Let's remember the doctor didn't even want to do this until the ghost of Jack visited her off-screen and gave her one of his special speeches.  (That's the only way I can understand the turnaround).

Perfect!  It really irritated me that after the doctor refused to do the surgery, she suddenly reconsidered.  I was briefly happy that the show was giving a realistic plot line to Kate, showing that her morbid obesity has serious consequences.  Then, oops! wrong! Kate can have a baby just because that's what she wants.  I am betting that she will get pregnant and despite a few dramatic incidents to keep us on edge, she will deliver a perfect, happy baby. 

And I totally agree with whoever said many comments ago, that Randall is now going to insist that the family move to the shabby neighborhood so he and the rest of them can feel their blackness. Complications will ensue.

[maggiemae]

Good grief. One of my nieces came into our family at 4 years old. She is 50 now. I cannot imagine her not being of our family. She has our values, traditions and memories. 

I think it was inexcusable of Kate to say that. I would be offended as well. 

[ams1001]

14 hours ago, PRgal said:

ETA: Are K-8 schools common in the part of New Jersey Randall and his family live in?  I'm wondering, since Deja is middle school aged.

 

According to Wikipedia, the Alpine Public School District only has one school, K-8. After that, public school students go to Tenafly High School (Tenafly is about 3 and a half miles from Alpine).

For the record, the public schools in my area in Central NJ are K-5, 6-8, and 9-12 (when I was a kid they were K-6, and 7-8, but they changed that sometime in the last couple decades). The only K-8 schools I know of off the top of my head are private.

Edited October 6, 2018 by ams1001

[AmandaPanda]

On 10/3/2018 at 6:06 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I felt so bad for Kate and Toby's lyft driver having to listen to all their Whitesnake/frisky IVF hormone talk.

I felt terrible for that Lyft driver. Kate and Toby were being completely inappropriate in that moment. 

On 10/3/2018 at 6:52 AM, JudyObscure said:

But Kate didn't say that to him. She said it  to her mother in naming her reasons for wanting her own biological child, rather than adopt,  since she thought she would probably be the only one to carry Jack's DNA to the next generation.  There's no reason to think Kate would have said that to Randall's face.  Kevin was the one who was insensitive enough to pass it on while not realizing how it would hurt Randall.  I say things to my Brother A about B that I would never say to B's face.  Like "B's illness has aged him terribly."  Don't we all do that?  Kate wants to look down at her baby and see Jack's eyes or whatever, I don't think she's horrible for wanting that.

I have absolutely no reason to believe Kate wouldn't have said that if Randall was standing there. Kate has repeatedly shown herself to be incredibly insensitive. She has always acted like she has the monopoly on grief for their dad. No one is allowed to miss Jack more than Kate is. It's by far my least favorite thing about her. 

On 10/3/2018 at 7:24 AM, Haleth said:

I was shocked that Toby yelled at Rebecca.  If my husband had yelled at my mom I'd be widow.  Sure, Rebecca is right to feel concern for her daughter, but starting an argument at that time was not helpful.  Plus Kate and Toby know the risks, even if they are ignoring them.  Moms (like me) have to let their adult children be adults.

Toby's behavior was completely on point with a person who is in withdrawals from an antidepressant. I took an antidepressant for 10 years. At various times, I went into withdrawals, mainly due to not being able to afford medicine until my next paycheck came in or because I was between refills and couldn't get the doctor to respond to my phone calls. It generally took about 3 days before the withdrawal symptoms were in full effect. Total irritability with anyone and everyone. Increased sex drive. Coming across as happy and elated, but flipping script in a moment's notice. They're actually handling this part of the storyline fairly well, as infuriating as it can be. 

On 10/3/2018 at 8:35 AM, Blakeston said:

Rebecca didn't make it about herself - she just expressed some valid concerns. If she had said, "How could you do this to me?", that would be making it about her. Worrying about her daughter's health is something else.

It's true. She just handled it in a really bad way. Though it's also true that Kate kinda pushed her into handling it in a poor way. 

On 10/3/2018 at 11:04 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

One thing that bothered me with Rebecca in this episode is her research into IVF.  I don't buy that she read up on it because of her friend's daughter.  Unless the other woman was also obese like Kate, why would Rebecca know about the risks for Kate?  To me, her knowledge of the risks of IVF made it seem like Rebecca researches Kate's health on her own.  This is not normal behavior.  Does she do this with Kevin's addiction or Randall's anxiety?  How long has she been researching Kate's health? 

I totally believed it. After Kate's miscarriage, I can see Rebecca falling into a Google rabbit hole of questions about fertility and how it would look for Kate and Toby. I don't see it as something weird. I see it as her wanting to figure out how she could help her daughter, with whom she already has a rocky relationship. 

On 10/3/2018 at 1:42 PM, Katy M said:

I don't think she would.  Not even a little. The only way I would see it being an issue is if she and Beth were both pregnant at the same time with boys and both Kate and RAndall wanted the name.  But, at any other time, nope.

Kate absolutely would have flipped if Randall or Kevin tried to use Jack's name for their child. It goes back in with Kate's feeling she's the one who loved Jack the most and who was most deeply affected by Jack's death. If Randall was going to use Jack, I doubt he would have told Kate about it. I know I wouldn't have if I were in his shoes. 

On 10/3/2018 at 11:06 PM, DebbieM4 said:

I agree with all of this, but it seems odd to me that someone who supposedly spent all her time involved with her kids wouldn't have met and become friends with other mothers.  Certainly she must have crossed paths with them at school events, while discussing play dates and parties and sleepovers, etc.   I wasn't close friends with all the other mothers when my kids were in school, but over time we saw each other pretty frequently and got to know each other, and I did develop pretty close friendships with some of them.  Did Rebecca not interact with any of them?  And did she also not know any of her neighbors?  I just don't get having kids and being so isolated.  It's not as though she was home-schooling them and they had no friends or social activities that involved her having to drive them, etc.  (And did she have no female friends when she met Jack?  Just the guys in the band?) 

I can see where Jack would have been the one to connect more with other parents. He was always more of the life of the party than Rebecca was. I always think Rebecca's relationships were probably more superficial. They saw each other at school events, but didn't have any close bonds. When someone dies, people don't know how to react. I'm sure there were plenty of people at Jack's funeral and even ones who came over to the house for about a week with casseroles and such. But as it gets further from the death, people drop off. It makes perfect sense that Rebecca doesn't really have anyone at this point. 

On 10/5/2018 at 4:29 AM, icemiser69 said:

It was incredibly stupid for Toby to flush his medication.  All of a sudden an empty bottle which shouldn't be empty or a missing medicine bottle that shouldn't be missing would be easily noticed.    If he wanted to be really sneaky about it, he would have a secondary pill bottle and just remove one pill from the primary bottle to the secondary bottle and kept the secondary bottle hidden.  That way it would still look like he was taking his medications.  For environmental reasons, medications shouldn't be flushed anyways.  Plus medications are really expensive.  If/when Kate becomes pregnant, I would imagine Toby would go back on his medications, so again there was no need to flush them.

Yes, it is stupid. I also don't think Kate would have noticed the prescription bottles missing. Or even noticed that it was the same one for months. 

[Crs97]

14 minutes ago, AmandaPanda said:

When someone dies, people don't know how to react. I'm sure there were plenty of people at Jack's funeral and even ones who came over to the house for about a week with casseroles and such. But as it gets further from the death, people drop off. It makes perfect sense that Rebecca doesn't really have anyone at this point. 

I can also imagine that they had “couple” friends who were uncomfortable with a threesome and dropped Rebecca from their social group.  She was a young, pretty widow and unfortunately could have made some female friends uneasy.

[topanga]

1 minute ago, Crs97 said:

I can also imagine that they had “couple” friends who were uncomfortable with a threesome and dropped Rebecca from their social group.  She was a young, pretty widow and unfortunately could have made some female friends uneasy.

But wouldn’t a female friend call or stop by occasionally 

[DebbieM4]

2 hours ago, AmandaPanda said:

I can see where Jack would have been the one to connect more with other parents. He was always more of the life of the party than Rebecca was. I always think Rebecca's relationships were probably more superficial. They saw each other at school events, but didn't have any close bonds. When someone dies, people don't know how to react. I'm sure there were plenty of people at Jack's funeral and even ones who came over to the house for about a week with casseroles and such. But as it gets further from the death, people drop off. It makes perfect sense that Rebecca doesn't really have anyone at this point. 

 

Yes, I know that people fall by the wayside after a death.  I have counseled people on both sides of this, and lectured on the topic.  But I wasn't referring to Rebecca not having anyone after Jack died.  I meant that she didn't seem to have anyone or even know anyone during their marriage (other than her former fellow band members) -  no actual old or new friends, and not even casual acquaintances with neighbors, mothers of her children's classmates, etc.  If her character wasn't written in such a flat manner, we would have had at least an inkling that she was somewhat involved in school/activities during that time, even just casually.  I realize the emphasis of this show is on family, but throwaway lines as simple as, "Susie, I have to hang up the phone.  Jack just walked in.  I'll have Kevin there at 6:00 tomorrow.  Bye!" every now and then would have gone a long way toward making her more believable as a character.  A mother who was so immersed in children who went to school, played sports, etc. certainly would be interacting with other people.  I don't think we've ever seen her come even close to juggling all that's involved with having three children.  And didn't she have any girlfriends prior to meeting Jack?  They all disappeared?   She's very one-note to me, and I think I would like her more and find her less boring if they had rounded her out a little bit and made her role in the family more believable.  I don't think it would be difficult to do that and also maintain the focus of the show.

I agree that Jack was more gregarious, but since he was working all the time and she was the SAHM, much more of the planning, driving, activities, etc. would have been her responsibility rather than his, and she would have seen school-related people far more often than he would.  My issue with Rebecca apparently not really knowing anyone is something that has bothered me all along, not post-Jack.

And re post-Jack:  It actually doesn't make a difference to me if they show her surrounded by friends after Jack's death, or with one close friend, or all alone.  Some of the deepest feelings of loneliness occur in the midst of crowds.  I don't mind at all that we're seeing her all by herself.  She feels alone, and that's what we're supposed to understand, so ultimately that's what matters.

Edited October 7, 2018 by DebbieM4
deleted a random & unnecessary word

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

But wouldn’t a female friend call or stop by occasionally 

Y'know, I think this is a shortcoming in the storytelling.  And really does a disservice to the female characters.  Jack, Randall and Kevin all have been shown to have relationships with people outside the immediate family.  Jack had Miguel.  Randall had his black surrogate family.  And Kevin had Sophie.  Rebecca and Kate seem to have only had Jack to focus on.  Neither one of them seems to have had anything or anyone else.  No wonder they are at odds with each other.  They were competing for a limited resource.  Thinking about it now, it does seem to be a bit glaring that they've never given Rebecca any girlfriends in the flashbacks, She should at least been friends with another stay-at-home mom in the neighborhood.

[balmz]

wasn't rebecca friends with the one black woman who she met at the pool?

[DebbieM4]

4 hours ago, balmz said:

wasn't rebecca friends with the one black woman who she met at the pool?

I can only remember their very awkward meeting at the pool, and then seeing her maybe once after that.  IIRC she seemed to be someone in Randall's life more than a friend of Rebecca's, and has rarely been seen or mentioned.

[himela]

On 10/3/2018 at 5:06 AM, mtlchick said:

Rebecca will always find a way to make it about Kate's weight.  She's 38.  I would think she knew the risks she was taking at this stage. 

I don't consider Kate that mature. In fact I am sure that whatever she does in her life is to provr to her mother that she can do these things despite her weight. I bet she knows that her insisting on having a baby of her own putting her life in danger is wrong but she doesn't want to accept that her mother could be right that her weight is indeed a problem. Her mother had everything, a loving husband and her own kids, that's her competition and that's what she is trying to achieve. I think that if Toby could talk to her in a simple and sensitive way, she would realize she doesn't need to do that to prove anything to anyone and she can be totally happy with an adopted child. 

[debraran]

2 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

I can only remember their very awkward meeting at the pool, and then seeing her maybe once after that.  IIRC she seemed to be someone in Randall's life more than a friend of Rebecca's, and has rarely been seen or mentioned.

I think that's the same woman Randall's friends with who's son goes to Howard.  This was on their mantle, she was important enough to be in a 5x7 on the Pierson's mantle with everyone but but hardly ever shown again or mentioned, you don't have to pay someone to just have Rebecca say, "I'm meeting so and so at the gym or store or meeting". It was like they wanted her to be in the "Jack" bubble with Kate.

Edited October 7, 2018 by debraran
found picture

[chocolatine]

IIRC, Rebecca was friends with Miguel's ex, Shelly,  before the divorce. There was one scene of them having lunch at a restaurant without their husbands.

And I think Yvette became more of a family friend than a friend of Rebecca's.

[Soup333]

I also think Rebecca needed some/a friendship outside of her marriage. If only to show someone attempting to check in on her after the funeral and her brushing them off. That would have also showed her state of mind.

And what of her family? If not a friend maybe a family member could have played that role. I know they had issues with her mother, but her husband had just passed away. They could have used that as a way for Rebecca and her mother to partially reconcile OR just had her mother call and have Rebecca thankful for her concern but not show interest in dealing with their past issues. Either way would have added another layer to how she and Kate were arguing in this episode. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/5/2018 at 1:44 AM, biakbiak said:

To be DNA does not equal legacy. 

Kate said that, not me.

[WhosThatGirl]

5 hours ago, Soup333 said:

I also think Rebecca needed some/a friendship outside of her marriage. If only to show someone attempting to check in on her after the funeral and her brushing them off. That would have also showed her state of mind.

And what of her family? If not a friend maybe a family member could have played that role. I know they had issues with her mother, but her husband had just passed away. They could have used that as a way for Rebecca and her mother to partially reconcile OR just had her mother call and have Rebecca thankful for her concern but not show interest in dealing with their past issues. Either way would have added another layer to how she and Kate were arguing in this episode. 

Yeah.. I’m not sure if we’re supposed to take something from the fact that it seems like Rebecca and Jack were really just RebeccaandJack and no one else(besides the kids). I mean in the first season and a little bit of the second season, they had Miguel and Miguel’s wife but it kind of seems like those friends tampered off when those two divorced and especially after Jacks death.

But I’m starting to think it makes sense because of how Rebecca and Jack were one person. Hell even Miguel has mentioned it to Kevin. And I also agree with another poster who said something that Rebecca has downplayed her personality after Jacks death and even Rebecca has said herself what she has with Miguel is “quiet, calm” versus that rush she had with Jack or Something.

But for the most part I’m starting to think that Rebecca and Jack were madly in love to the point of being on an island and that’s why she looks and probably feels so lost without him after his death. 

[DebbieM4]

8 hours ago, Soup333 said:

I also think Rebecca needed some/a friendship outside of her marriage. If only to show someone attempting to check in on her after the funeral and her brushing them off. That would have also showed her state of mind.

And what of her family? If not a friend maybe a family member could have played that role. I know they had issues with her mother, but her husband had just passed away. They could have used that as a way for Rebecca and her mother to partially reconcile OR just had her mother call and have Rebecca thankful for her concern but not show interest in dealing with their past issues. Either way would have added another layer to how she and Kate were arguing in this episode. 

Maybe that's still to come?  I agree that Rebecca's relationship with her mother should be at least touched on in some way after Jack's death.  Even if it's just a cursory mention, although I think the loss of Jack is a good opportunity for more.

[bros402]

On 10/5/2018 at 8:59 AM, PRgal said:

Come to think of it, I'm not sure if the admissions office would take a voicemail seriously.  They will still call the Pearsons to either speak with Randall in person or to Rebecca (since, as someone upthread pointed out, Randall is under 18).

 

On names:  I know someone whose sister-in-law has the same name as she does.  Luckily, my friend is married and took her husband's name. 
 

ETA: Are K-8 schools common in the part of New Jersey Randall and his family live in?  I'm wondering, since Deja is middle school aged.

 

On 10/5/2018 at 10:52 PM, ams1001 said:

According to Wikipedia, the Alpine Public School District only has one school, K-8. After that, public school students go to Tenafly High School (Tenafly is about 3 and a half miles from Alpine).

For the record, the public schools in my area in Central NJ are K-5, 6-8, and 9-12 (when I was a kid they were K-6, and 7-8, but they changed that sometime in the last couple decades). The only K-8 schools I know of off the top of my head are private.

In my part of NJ we have PreK-K (1 school), 1-4 (uhhhh like 5 or 7?), 5-6 (2), 7-8 (1), 9-12 (1).

NJ has approx. 581 public school districts, they all have very different structures - every county has their own school district, too - they are usually county level magnet schools and vocational schools. Let me check this list to see how many HSes there are in NJ - there are 511 secondary schools in NJ, so let's go with the 590 figure on that page - there are 21 counties in NJ, something like 565 towns, so 586 school districts between the counties and towns - the rest are outliers.

In NJ, we have a lot of <2 sq mi towns - these towns tend to have K-8 schools (Usually split K-5, 6-8 or K-6, 7-8), then they, along with all of the other tiny towns around them band together and have a regional high school - they sometimes have their own district, sometimes they are part of another district (Like Tenafly Public Schools in the case of Alpine) and then the LEA (Local educational agency, the district they live in, also called a sending district) pays tuition to the HS district (aka a receiving district).

[JudyObscure]

10 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Kate said that, not me.

Nobody said that DNA equals legacy.

[Ohiopirate02]

16 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah.. I’m not sure if we’re supposed to take something from the fact that it seems like Rebecca and Jack were really just RebeccaandJack and no one else(besides the kids). I mean in the first season and a little bit of the second season, they had Miguel and Miguel’s wife but it kind of seems like those friends tampered off when those two divorced and especially after Jacks death.

But I’m starting to think it makes sense because of how Rebecca and Jack were one person. Hell even Miguel has mentioned it to Kevin. And I also agree with another poster who said something that Rebecca has downplayed her personality after Jacks death and even Rebecca has said herself what she has with Miguel is “quiet, calm” versus that rush she had with Jack or Something.

But for the most part I’m starting to think that Rebecca and Jack were madly in love to the point of being on an island and that’s why she looks and probably feels so lost without him after his death. 

While I know women who have pulled away or even ended friendships when then get married, this still doesn't feel right in the show.  Jack gets Miguel and Rebecca doesn't' have anyone?  Friends do come and go over the years, but I would expect Rebecca to have at least one close friend.  This just screams lazy writing to me.  Rebecca only has friends when it suits the story and then they just disappear. 

[PRgal]

Kate SHOULD know better, having a brother who was adopted, but I think sometimes, people "forget."  Like I'm sure my friends and family will "forget" that my son is from a donor.  Also, my parents both think we should hide that fact from him.  REALLY???!!  

[ItCouldBeWorse]

16 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Nobody said that DNA equals legacy.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. Why, in your opinion, did Kate say that she, through a future child, would be the only one to carry on Jack's legacy?  When Kevin looked offended, she said something that implied that she thought he wouldn't be having kids.  What do you think she meant with respect to Randall? 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

On 10/2/2018 at 7:44 PM, ams1001 said:

Aren't Tess and Annie like 10/11 and 7/8? Wouldn't they have to have some kind of parental permission for after-school clubs? I didn't just announce to my parents when they came to pick me up after the first day of school (not just because I took the bus) that I have a club meeting (and clubs never met on the first day of school, either) and if I had they wouldn't have just said, "okay, see ya'."

Yes!  That really bugged me.  I do a lot of after school programming and I am in contact with the guardians telling them where their child should go, contacting the teachers to make sure the student is where they are supposed to be.  The kids would not be going to their dad at the end of school saying "actually I have a club today".  Just a messy way to set up Randall yammering on to Deja again about doing something for his biological father.  Also, wouldn't Deja be in a junior high and not elementary school?