Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

S03.E02 A Philadelphia Story


  • Reply
  • Start Topic

Recommended Posts

35 minutes ago, DoItToIt said:

I thought I was hearing him say "Chichi," a pretty common nickname in Igbo language.

Wait! It’s Gigi? I thought it Chi or Chi Chi. Time to turn the volume up for me.

  • Love 5
Link to comment
4 hours ago, ShortyMac said:

Kate is so selfish with Kevin and Randall when it comes to their dad - she loved him more, grieved the most after he died, she's the only one who will have kids that look anything like Jack...last I checked, the same 25% of Jack's DNA would mold Kevin's children, too.

 

Kate was such a daddy's girl, that she has kind of claimed the role of "most grieved kid" away from her brothers. She gets to hang out with his urn, she gets to be the "what would dad say?" one, she totally refuses to see faults in him (even more than the rest of the family) and she is apparently the only one who could possibly carry on his legacy. Despite the fact that she is probably the least like him of the kids, personality wise. She had to know that saying that would hurt her brothers, even if she didnt mean to. Even with all she has going on, thats a really crappy thing to say.

So Kevin wants to make things serious, but Zoe is giving mixed signals. I like them, but I worry that Beth was right, and that Zoe will end up leaving when things get too serious, breaking Kevin's heart. Hopefully it wont lead to a relapse. But then, maybe someone would pay some damn attention to the guy. Maybe even go to one of his things without everyone dragging in their personal problems! 

Toby going cold turkey off his meds is a terrible idea, but him telling Rebecca off was pretty awesome. Even if I can understand why Rebecca is concerned, she needs to tone it down a bit when it comes to Kate. 

Oh teen Randall. Of course he gave up his dream school to take care of his clearly struggling family (especially sad considering the problems that Kevin and Kate are having will just get worse in the future) and was all heartbroken. Then, also of course, Adult Randall is superman who has to the save Community Center like this is an episode of Saved By The Bell or something. Its like Randall's selflessness and need to save everyone has gone so far for him now, that its almost more of a problem than a virtue. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe there is some connection to his family struggling, and his need to save as many people as he can, mixed with anxiety and identity issues. 

  • Love 18
Link to comment

I still think Annie goes beserk as a teen and eventually lands in prison where Adult Tess and Old Randall will be visiting her. Maybe we're seeing the foundations of her eventual rebellion - Dad being obsessed with an adopted daughter (adopted out of birth order, a no-no), moving homes (in part because of said adopted daughter), and doing grand gestures like quitting his job, buying an apartment building, renovating a community center, etc. etc. I think Annie is darling, but I so want the show to go there. It would actually be good drama.

  • Love 12
Link to comment

So Randall picks up the girls from school.  Deja is the only one with nothing to do so Randall drives Deja down to Phillie to hang out with Skye.  Um did I understand that correctly?  Kids in NJ get out of school 2:30 - 3:00 depending on the grade.  But Randall manages to drive two hours to Phillie, call the representative guy, follow him to where he's getting a haircut and then back to the center.  Plus buy a light bulb.  Then he manages to get Deja back to Alpine and change, then goes to NYC for Kevin's premiere.  Sorry...  I just can't with this stuff.  They should have had William move to Newark rather than Phillie and then I could buy it. 

Kate's comment about 'biology' was very telling about Kate.  I get it but you don't say it.  But Kate always seems to be about Kate. 

The actors who play the big three as teenagers, as well as the ones who play them as young children, are terrific.  Mandy Moore just doesn't do it for me as Becca at any age.

I'm a heroin addict.  Needed comic relief.  As well as Eloise and Plaza....

  • Love 13
Link to comment
31 minutes ago, RickyB said:

Did Jack and Rebecca go to an open house in the house Randal eventually buys to raise his family? It looked like it. 

They may have been using parts of the same set, but unless Jack and Rebecca drove six hours from Pittsburgh to look at a house in New Jersey, I don't think it was the same house.

 

11 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So Kevin wants to make things serious, but Zoe is giving nixed signals. I like them, but I worry that Beth was right, and that Zoe will end up leaving when things get too serious, breaking Kevin's heart. Hopefully it wont lead to a relapse. But then, maybe someone would pay some damn attention to the guy. Maybe even go to one of his things without everyone dragging in their personal problems! 

We did see Kevin and Zoe together, looking pretty serious, in the flash forward at the end of last season. They were on a plane to Vietnam, which I guess is part Kevin trying to learn more about Jack's time there.  The question is, what does it take for Kevin and Zoe to get to that point.

  • Love 4
Link to comment
3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

I kind of liked Toby calling out Rebecca criticizing their choice to do in-vitro, even if he was harsh. Also, I loved his "I'm a heroin addict" quip when she and Miguel found the injections. Better enjoy Toby's lighter moments while you can because it'll go downhill pretty soon... 

I VERY much liked that!  Rebecca was condescending and annoying, and she wouldn't let it go.  Clearly it was not the appropriate time to have that kind of discussion - It was brand-new information to her, Kate was upset and caught off guard, emotions were running high all the way around, and they were on their way to Kevin's movie premiere.  It would have been far better for her to have quietly said something loving and/or supportive, and then suggested they talk the next day.   I was thrilled when Toby told her to shut up.  Her instincts as a mother are awful, IMO.  It's like she doesn't know Kate at all.

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

 

All right, Rebecca. Time and place. On the way to your son's big movie premiere is not it.

Exactly.   Sure, let's have a hot-button discussion that hits all of your daughter's insecurities and brings up years of mother/daughter issues right now as we're headed out the door!

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Kind of underwhelmed again this week.

this is making me like Kate anymore than I already don’t. The way she reacted to Kevin was kind of mean. 

I was underwhelmed too - and I'm a little worried.  This week was better than last week, but still nowhere near what this show has been for me in the past.  I'm hoping it's a lot better next week.  I didn't feel pulled into any aspect of it at all.

And I agree - Kate was mean.  I actually think she's been mean many times in the past, too, which is one of the big reasons I find it hard to like her.

1 hour ago, breezy424 said:

 

The actors who play the big three as teenagers, as well as the ones who play them as young children, are terrific.  Mandy Moore just doesn't do it for me as Becca at any age.

I'm a heroin addict.  Needed comic relief.  As well as Eloise and Plaza....

I agree.  I think I posted several times during the first season that I would enjoy this show so much more if someone else had been cast as Rebecca.  I'm not a fan of Mandy or Rebecca, and I just don't find Rebecca believable as a character on any level.  For me, it's always Mandy Moore "acting".

I agree about the teenage-year actors.  They are very good.  And yes, Eloise & Plaza was very clever!  

  • Love 8
Link to comment

Why isn't Kate in therapy? I understand Rebecca not forcing it when they were teens since therapy wasn't really a thing in the 90s, but Kate desperately needs more therapy. I love no filter Toby! I'm confused, hasn't anyone ever told Kate (out loud) that she wasn't the only one who lost Jack? Maybe its just the way my siblings and I handle things, but a good knock down drag out fight often clears the air and unites us against my mom (as it should be ;-) ) The Pearson kids manage each other, they don't seem to have honest interactions and I think it's really unhealthy. People need to be called on their shit and no one can do that like your siblings.

Since men can have children pretty much their entire lifetime why couldn't Kevin populate the world with a slew of good-looking, compassionate, potential alcoholics at 70?

I hope Sterling K Brown works with Kay Oyegun to make Randall's feelings of not belonging more authentic. The writing on this topic is very clunky and I'm afraid they're going to mess up the message. Where are Randall's friends? He needs other Black people to talk to about his experiences. Also, why isn't Randall in therapy?

  • Love 22
Link to comment
Quote

Zoe is giving nixed signals.

@tennisgurl: I feel certain you mean "mixed", but I think this one is closer to being right (at least according to Beth).  They're sweet together but Beth's advice to Kevin last week still reverberates.

Still loving the Teen Three.  I beg the showrunners to give them a happy ep or two this season.  I have enough TeenAngst with Nephew de Voiceover; besides, they're all way cuter when they smile.

  • Love 3
Link to comment
4 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Aren't Tess and Annie like 10/11 and 7/8? Wouldn't they have to have some kind of parental permission for after-school clubs? I didn't just announce to my parents when they came to pick me up after the first day of school (not just because I took the bus) that I have a club meeting (and clubs never met on the first day of school, either) and if I had they wouldn't have just said, "okay, see ya'." 

I think Beth was channeling the entire audience when she asked if he was gonna buy it.

I thought it was the end of the first week of school?

 

3 hours ago, RickyB said:

Did Jack and Rebecca go to an open house in the house Randal eventually buys to raise his family? It looked like it. 

They lived in Pittsburgh - I don't think they would've traveled 6 1/2 hours to look at a house they weren't seriously considering buying

2 hours ago, breezy424 said:

So Randall picks up the girls from school.  Deja is the only one with nothing to do so Randall drives Deja down to Phillie to hang out with Skye.  Um did I understand that correctly?  Kids in NJ get out of school 2:30 - 3:00 depending on the grade.  But Randall manages to drive two hours to Phillie, call the representative guy, follow him to where he's getting a haircut and then back to the center.  Plus buy a light bulb.  Then he manages to get Deja back to Alpine and change, then goes to NYC for Kevin's premiere.  Sorry...  I just can't with this stuff.  They should have had William move to Newark rather than Phillie and then I could buy it. 

Kate's comment about 'biology' was very telling about Kate.  I get it but you don't say it.  But Kate always seems to be about Kate. 

The actors who play the big three as teenagers, as well as the ones who play them as young children, are terrific.  Mandy Moore just doesn't do it for me as Becca at any age.

I'm a heroin addict.  Needed comic relief.  As well as Eloise and Plaza....

Can be as early as 2:15 for some high schools, especially in the suburbs - and as late as 3:45 for elementary. However, I believe they send the kids to a private school, so who knows what the hours are there, probably something like 8-3 plus or minus 30 minutes.

  • Love 3
Link to comment
4 hours ago, jmonique said:

I loved season 1 and 2, but I've grown really weary of the siblings shitting on one another's moments. 
This was supposed to be about Kevin's premiere, but Kate & Co. throw down in his living room, and then Randall has Identity Issue #702. I get it, he's adopted and just as much part of the family and can carry on Jack's spirit, but dude, get off the cross. He knows what Kate meant. 

This is the first episode that really really bored me. It felt like a rerun. 

  • Love 10
Link to comment

I don't understand the no therapy either, even a grief group, they existed, I knew people many years ago who did that. How odd that Rebecca seems friendless and alone, no one to go out with, a reason to get dressed. Poor Randall who is the most together, has to sacrifice to live home so his mother doesn't hurt herself it seems.  I know you can make your husband your only friend but it's sad watching this. I hope they show more later, Kate really spiraled and it must have been hard seeing her go from 25-50 pounds overweight to over 200 and (as the show writes it) still so emotionally damaged. Kevin needed someone to talk too also who wouldn't just feed his "my life is over now" attitude.  It's hard to find the right person sometimes you click with, but the show is doing a disservice to the viewers not to show it more. But then you couldn't have people hanging on to a spirit 20 years after someone died in an unhealthy way.

I hope Randall's obsession with his new project doesn't hurt anyone, I can see him wanting to give back, but you need to think of everyone and not just yourself. He is who he is and that's special, Deja had her experiences, he had his, they have things in common, some not, but he doesn't have to be poor to be a good dad or understand her. Being black isn't just being poor, you can be middle class or rich . My kids are mixed, there is the "not fitting in" feeling at times, but they realized discrimination crosses all lines, that economics keeps people apart at times,but we all want certain thing that transcend our backgrounds. I had friendships not flourish because I made much less money, but there is usually common ground. Randall can give back, he can share Deja's dreams of a life, education, help her be independent, get the skills to succeed,but he can't be Deja, he shouldn't be, he isn't Jack, he isn't William, they all became who they are through their own experiences.

  • Love 15
Link to comment
8 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

I daresay I do believe the beautiful daughter of William's friend has caught Randall's eye.  Do I smell trouble in the Randall and Beth paradise?  Not only that, but I think she's challenged him.  What - he says?  I'm not one of you?  Well, now that I've heard I'm not passing down any of Jack, I'm setting out to prove I am one of you.  As if Deja wasn't enough of a challenge.  Memo to Randall - get your butt back into that job with that nice corner office with those spectacular views!

That wasn’t the daughter of William’s friend. That WAS William’s friend and her daughter is Skye. The one Deja was introduced to. She just didn’t look like she aged much.

  • Love 12
Link to comment

Really, Kevin? You waited until the night before the movie premiere to ask Zoe to go with you? And even worse, you KNEW she was flying to Chicago in the morning? Were you deliberately trying to get turned down?

As much as I like Randall and Beth's relationship, I got annoyed when he started rubbing her back and then he told her not to give him directions. I've given a lot of massages in my lifetime and I would MUCH rather someone give me feedback and tell me to go higher/lower, more/less pressure, etc. than to just have them stay silent.

I felt so bad for Kate and Toby's lyft driver having to listen to all their Whitesnake/frisky IVF hormone talk.

I also felt bad for the poor real estate agent who got stuck in the awkward "I'm not going to college either" discussion. I understand Kate wanting to keep the tape because it was the last bit of her dad she had left. But GIRL, there are options! Make a copy of the tape and just send the part where you'e singing! Or make a new recording of yourself singing!

I love how supportive Rebecca was of Toby when she said he looked handsome in his suit. I also enjoyed Toby introducing Miguel and their little dance move together.

While I understand teen Randall's frustration with Rebecca, I think it was a bit much for him to accuse her of lying. I think she was telling the truth when she said that she was doing the best that she could. Kids always think that parents and adults have all the answers and know what to do, but Rebecca was a young widow still grieving the unexpected loss of her husband and trying to figure out things like selling their old house/buying a new house. I'm sure that it wasn't easy for her to deal with losing their main source of income. I know that sounds tacky but she had three kids to support and at the time of Jack's death, she didn't have a full time job so whatever insurance money or military pension she got, I'm betting it wasn't enough to make the house payment, feed four people, and pay for Randall's pending tuition. Just finding a way to keep her head afloat financially must have been a huge burden.

I totally get why Kate didn't want to tell her family that she was doing IVF just yet, but I can also see Rebecca's side. Yes, Kate is an adult who can make her own decisions, but we're not talking about deciding between a yellow throw pillow and a green throw pillow. This surgery could be very dangerous for her, and as her mother, Rebecca's concern is Kate not dying or having major complications. I know there's a fine line between concern and butting in, but when you're talking about potentially risking your life, most parents would not be able to hold their tongues.

Don't get me wrong - if Kate knows the risks and she is willing to take them, ultimately it's her decision, not Rebecca's. Lord knows I've received enough unsolicited advice and judgment to understand how Kate feels. It's even worse when you're trapped in a small space like a car.

I totally cracked up when Miguel was clearly on Kate's side and not even trying to hide it. Even though my default reaction is always "STFU, TOBY!" I was all for him yelling at Rebecca. She can be concerned but it's not her choice whether or not Kate gets IVF.

I get Gigi's point, but at the same time I thought it was kind and thoughtful of Randall to make so much effort to try to get the rec center fixed.

Ha, I loved that Kevin deflected the "anyone special?" interview question by asking Mario Lopez how he still looked so young. That's right, appeal to Slater's vanity!

I also loved that when Kevin told Randall that Kate and Toby were doing IVF, they were both totally for it.

  • Love 12
Link to comment
4 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

 For me, it's always Mandy Moore "acting".

For me too, but in many ways the writing for Rebecca is my favorite.  "Rebecca's" reactions, from always favoring  Randall for fear of favoring her biological children, through all her messed up attempts to help Kate with her weight problems and her neglect of Kevin because he seems so happy and gifted - yep, very believable parenting mistakes.

That said, during this episode's teenage scene with Rebecca in a constant daze of grief, Kate compulsively over eating, Kevin drunk during the day, and Randall foregoing college, I just wanted to be like Cher in "Moonlighting, " and slap everyone of them in the face while saying, "Snap out of it!" You don't just get to quit parenting when something bad happens. At the very least, Rebecca should have started going through the motions of living as a model for her children.

  • Love 10
Link to comment
7 hours ago, breezy424 said:

So Randall picks up the girls from school.  Deja is the only one with nothing to do so Randall drives Deja down to Phillie to hang out with Skye.  Um did I understand that correctly?  Kids in NJ get out of school 2:30 - 3:00 depending on the grade.  But Randall manages to drive two hours to Phillie, call the representative guy, follow him to where he's getting a haircut and then back to the center.  Plus buy a light bulb.  Then he manages to get Deja back to Alpine and change, then goes to NYC for Kevin's premiere.  Sorry...  I just can't with this stuff.  They should have had William move to Newark rather than Phillie and then I could buy it. 

They must have gone back the next day, because the premiere was on Saturday.  Beth said she was probably going to have to go to work and meet Randall at the premiere, and he said "on a Saturday?"  I'm just glad he didn't blow off the premiere, because I was seriously think that was where it was going.

As for Rebecca, I think she had a valid point. Her timing was bad, but on the other hand, she was trying to keep it in but Kate kept pushing her. Let's remember the doctor didn't even want to do this until the ghost of Jack visited her off-screen and gave her one of his special speeches.  (That's the only way I can understand the turnaround).

As for what Kate said, I can't believe someone who had an adopted brother would be that hung up on genetics.  If it were Kevin who felt that way, considering his and Randall's issues growing up, I wound understand it more.  But, I was led to believe that Randall and Kate loved each other and got along as well as any other bro and sis when they were kids.

31 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Really, Kevin? You waited until the night before the movie premiere to ask Zoe to go with you? And even worse, you KNEW she was flying to Chicago in the morning? Were you deliberately trying to get turned down?

I think he was afraid to ask earlier.

32 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

also felt bad for the poor real estate agent who got stuck in the awkward "I'm not going to college either" discussion. I understand Kate wanting to keep the tape because it was the last bit of her dad she had left. But GIRL, there are options! Make a copy of the tape and just send the part where you'e singing! Or make a new recording of yourself singing!

I don't think that's why she did it.  She's not an idiot. She knows she can make a copy.  I think it's because she always thought Jack was the only one who believed in her, and without that support any more, she just didn't think she could succeed.  Or maybe she felt like she didn't deserve to be able to succeed at something he had encouraged her with since he was now dead.  

  • Love 18
Link to comment

What Kate said about being the only one to pass on something of Jack's was ugly and uncalled for, no wonder both Kevin, and later, Randall, were hurt by that. She could have articulated her desire for a biological child without diminishing her brothers.

Something about Zoe rubbed me the wrong way in this episode, and not because of what Beth said to Kevin last week. First, when Kevin asked if she speaks French, she felt the need to tell him that she also speaks three other languages. Bragging much? Then, after initially turning down his offer to drive her to the airport, she texted him to pick her up when she returned, and to be on time because she "hates waiting". Gee, lady, you are so special, everyone else just *loves* waiting.

I'm really sad that Jack died without ever eating pesto.

Edited by chocolatine
  • Love 16
Link to comment
1 minute ago, Liamsmom617 said:

And what Kate said, to him, seems to imply that Randalll’s daughters are not Jack and Rebecca’s  “real” grandchildren just because they don’t look like Jack.

But Kate didn't say that to him. She said it  to her mother in naming her reasons for wanting her own biological child, rather than adopt,  since she thought she would probably be the only one to carry Jack's DNA to the next generation.  There's no reason to think Kate would have said that to Randall's face.  Kevin was the one who was insensitive enough to pass it on while not realizing how it would hurt Randall.  I say things to my Brother A about B that I would never say to B's face.  Like "B's illness has aged him terribly."  Don't we all do that?  Kate wants to look down at her baby and see Jack's eyes or whatever, I don't think she's horrible for wanting that.

  • Love 8
Link to comment
9 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I get that Kate's comment meant biologically.  But you pass on more than just DNA from your parents.   I felt bad for Randall in that moment. It may not have been as bad if he hadb't already been told he wasn't part of William's world.  Now to hear something like that from Kate of all people had to hurt.

I was thinking Randall was being self-absorbed and whiny when she said that - knowing she meant biologically - but choosing to be butt-hurt despite it. But reading your comment - now I get it - he'd just been told he was not part of his bio dad's world and now all he heard in his frame of mind is that he doesn't belong in his adoptive dad's world either. I have more empathy for him now.

  • Love 17
Link to comment
9 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Randall's obsession with Deja is starting to really make me uncomfortable. It's too intense. It's bordering on creepy at this point. Annie and Tess, who are adorable and wonderful, are being neglected and Deja is being smothered. I'm half-expecting a storyline where he and Deja get too close, if you catch my drift.

I am hoping this does not happen and I don't think it will. That being said, I think we are just seeing his interaction with Deja because there is drama in it. I think it is implied that he spends time with Annie & Tess but there is no real story to tell, so it's not shown.  With a family drama format like this, it is kind of careless on the writers' part not to include the "regular everyday stuff" though as well to give some balance. For example, besides Randall and his other daughters - show us Miguel and Rebecca puttering around the house just enjoying each other's company. 

  • Love 10
Link to comment

Ron Cephas Jones is a treasure.  And the teenage actors are wonderful too, really picking up on the characteristics of the adult versions.

I was shocked that Toby yelled at Rebecca.  If my husband had yelled at my mom I'd be widow.  Sure, Rebecca is right to feel concern for her daughter, but starting an argument at that time was not helpful.  Plus Kate and Toby know the risks, even if they are ignoring them.  Moms (like me) have to let their adult children be adults.

9 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Why do these 38-year-old adults seem so much like teenagers?

Because they are stuck at 17.  They haven't dealt with the trauma of their dad's death.  They all need therapy.  

Ouch.  Kate's comment was insulting to both her brothers.  

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Whats really ironic about what Kate said about her being the one to carry on Jacks legacy is that Randal is by far the most like him of the three kids. Big gestures, devoted parent, loves adoption, etc. He might be adopted, by he is definitely a lot like Jack personality wise, and is very much his fathers son. And, while I do get tired of his adoption angst all the time, I can get why that really stung, especially after hearing how he could never really be a part of Williams world. 

Exactly.  If anyone can pass down a little bit of Jack, it's Randall.

Randall tries too hard with everything he does but at least he recognizes it.  Maybe Beth should clue him in that it's not always charming to be that frenetic.  A lot of people would find it off putting.  Is he still playing SAHD?  I know the apartment bldg is his current project obsession (with a side order of recreation center), but he still has no job?  Oh, gosh, I hope the writers aren't planning on moving the Pearsons to the building in Philly just so Randall can feel like he belongs.

  • Love 10
Link to comment

Ugh, these people. What is their deal with causing scenes in front of everyone, at the most inappropriate times? At a house showing in front of your realtor? check. At a movie premiere for your son/brother? check. They are all such emo drama queens. I loved Toby going off on them. His was the most rational, reasonable, normal reaction to anything that happened in this episode, even if it's fueled by anti depressant withdrawal.

Kate's comment, repeated by Kevin, was tactless, but Randall's reaction to it was over the top. They really all do need to be in therapy.

  • Love 15
Link to comment
17 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Ugh, these people. What is their deal with causing scenes in front of everyone, at the most inappropriate times? At a house showing in front of your realtor? check. At a movie premiere for your son/brother? check.

they didn't really cause a scene at the premiere.  Kate was worried about Toby not showing up but didn't scream, yell, or drag anybody else into anything, and she and Rebecca had a nice moment in the bathroom. Which I have to admit was oddly empty for right before a big event.  Toby showed up, Kate just said she was worried, and they sat down.  Kevin filled Randall in and Randall stared off into space for a moment.  No huge scenes.

  • Love 15
Link to comment

I just checked to make sure I got it right.  Kate said, in answer to Rebecca asking why she doesn't adopt: "Because I want to look down and see Toby, and myself ... and Dad, because I'm the only one in the family who can carry on a piece of Dad."  She didn't say anything about traditions, or legacy, or how to change a fuse, she just said, " a piece of dad," in the same sentence about appearances, so was clearly only talking about DNA.  At the same time she was jumping on Rebecca for making it about her weight, when the risks are actually about her weight.  I think they're all being overly sensitive.   As someone said up thread, water is wet.  Claiming it isn't so it wont hurt the feelings of someone (who isn't even there) who is short on water is too much.  Now, saying that Kevin is unlikely to have children, I guess because he can't keep a girlfriend was sort of mean, but maybe it will wake him up and make him realize that he doesn't have forever.

  • Love 6
Link to comment
9 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I just checked to make sure I got it right.  Kate said, in answer to Rebecca asking why she doesn't adopt: "Because I want to look down and see Toby, and myself ... and Dad, because I'm the only one in the family who can carry on a piece of Dad."  She didn't say anything about traditions, or legacy, or how to change a fuse, she just said, " a piece of dad," in the same sentence about appearances, so was clearly only talking about DNA.  At the same time she was jumping on Rebecca for making it about her weight, when the risks are actually about her weight.  I think they're all being overly sensitive.   As someone said up thread, water is wet.  Claiming it isn't so it wont hurt the feelings of someone (who isn't even there) who is short on water is too much.  Now, saying that Kevin is unlikely to have children, I guess because he can't keep a girlfriend was sort of mean, but maybe it will wake him up and make him realize that he doesn't have forever.

Kate's reasoning for wanting a biological child rings very true to me.  The lock-screen for my phone is set to a picture of my nephew where he is the spitting image of my late father.  While the comment is insensitive and easy to take out of context, I knew exactly what she meant when she said it.  While my dad will live on because he helped to shape me, my sister, and my brothers, I completely understand why Kate would want to see her father in a future child. 

  • Love 5
Link to comment
Quote

I understand Kate wanting to keep the tape because it was the last bit of her dad she had left. But GIRL, there are options! Make a copy of the tape and just send the part where you'e singing! Or make a new recording of yourself singing!

I think Kate is punishing herself at that point. She blames herself for her dad's death, so she doesn't deserve good things in life. She's not going to have a singing career because her Dad will never get to see it. She's eating to extremes as a form of hurting herself.

Rebecca is wallowing in Jack's death so she doesn't see her that her kids need some serious help. Kate is sabotaging herself due to the guilt and the grief. Kevin was already grieving the loss of his future and without any parental support (Jack is gone and Rebecca is checked out), he's spiralling. The only one who has their head on straight is teen Randall who is sad, but moving forward. He feels he needs to put his life on hold to support the family emotionally. Three of them need counselling so one of them doesn't have to put his life on hold at 18. It's unfortunate that there was no other family or friends who could have helped stopped all that destructive behaviour.

With all the things that were going on premiere day (work, mission to save the world, family fights), I half expected that Kevin was going to have to go to  his premiere alone. Beth looked amazing.

Randall better be careful with that councilman - that guy was a weasel. He smarmed all over that barber shop. He shut down his own father's pet project - don't think he won't do the same for you. The guy made a big promise, but didn't even get the lightbulbs changed. He's been applied to before by actual voters, why is he going to do anything special for somebody from out of state?

  • Love 18
Link to comment
9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh teen Randall. Of course he gave up his dream school to take care of his clearly struggling family (especially sad considering the problems that Kevin and Kate are having will just get worse in the future) and was all heartbroken. Then, also of course, Adult Randall is superman who has to the save Community Center like this is an episode of Saved By The Bell or something. Its like Randall's selflessness and need to save everyone has gone so far for him now, that its almost more of a problem than a virtue. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe there is some connection to his family struggling, and his need to save as many people as he can, mixed with anxiety and identity issues. 

I think that you nailed it. Randall's need to fix and save everyone along with his constant struggle with his identity as not just an adopted child, but a black child adopted by a white family are major contributors to his anxiety and mental health problems. From his perspective, he tried to make the center a better place for everyone, yet the woman criticizes him for not spending time talking to people. Trying fix everything doesn't end well because you usually can't please everyone. I wish Randall didn't care so much and try so hard, but it is who he is. I think if Jack was still around, Randall would be able to cope better because his father seemed able to direct and help him be more realistic in his expectations.

Edited by SimoneS
  • Love 21
Link to comment

I don't think Toby was fully justified in his "this is just about me and Kate!" rant.

Rebecca didn't make it about herself - she just expressed some valid concerns. If she had said, "How could you do this to me?", that would be making it about her. Worrying about her daughter's health is something else.

And if Toby's point was just that it's none of Rebecca's business, and she shouldn't be chiming in, then he doesn't have much of a case either. Kate basically insisted that Rebecca air her concerns. Rebecca wasn't trying to get into a big argument on the night of the premiere.

(Also, Rebecca shouldn't beat herself up over not confronting Teen Kate about her weight. Can you imagine how badly that would have gone? For the next twenty years she'd have to hear Kate drag her for daring to bring up her weight, and doing it at such a bad time, and making her issues with food so much worse, etc. etc.)

  • Love 22
Link to comment

Cracks me up that Toby is acting out of character and now he is getting some love. I didn't mind him telling Rebecca to butt out, but he would have never done so in such a blunt way if he hadn't stop taking his medication.

Edited by SimoneS
  • Love 8
Link to comment
12 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I don't think Toby was fully justified in his "this is just about me and Kate!" rant.

Rebecca didn't make it about herself - she just expressed some valid concerns. If she had said, "How could you do this to me?", that would be making it about her. Worrying about her daughter's health is something else.

And if Toby's point was just that it's none of Rebecca's business, and she shouldn't be chiming in, then he doesn't have much of a case either. Kate basically insisted that Rebecca air her concerns. Rebecca wasn't trying to get into a big argument on the night of the premiere.

(Also, Rebecca shouldn't beat herself up over not confronting Teen Kate about her weight. Can you imagine how badly that would have gone? For the next twenty years she'd have to hear Kate drag her for daring to bring up her weight, and doing it at such a bad time, and making her issues with food so much worse, etc. etc.)

But Kate insisted that Rebecca get it out because of the change in Rebecca after she found out.  It reminded me of my mother.  Rebecca and Kate seemed to be able to casually converse before the IVF revelation, and then Rebecca is silently judging Kate.  I wonder how long they were silently in the car before Kate prompted Rebecca. 

 

I think that Kate would have been more receptive to Rebecca back when she told her mom about the initial weight gain.  It seemed to me that it was a cry for help that Rebecca was not capable of hearing at the time.  That might have been the only time that Kate let her defenses down.  It is really sad that none of the Pearsons had another adult that could help them through those months. 

  • Love 12
Link to comment

I get Kate's point but would have not told Kevin (or Randall) that. I also get their feelings of hurt by the comment too. 

 

For the record, I hope Randall does not move to William's neighborhood. I think the race and class message that would be sending would be wrong. Getting to genuinely know and care for the people there is fine.

I want to know more about how Beth grew up. I get the feeling that her roots are not humble. In fact, I get the feeling she is from an upper middle class black family. So, because she was (assumedly) raised by two black parents that (may be) upper middle class, would she belong? I bet Beth will have lots to say as an urban planner as well (or hope so), because these are some of the things we deal with.

Edited by Enigma X
  • Love 10
Link to comment
23 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I don't think Toby was fully justified in his "this is just about me and Kate!" rant.

Rebecca didn't make it about herself - she just expressed some valid concerns. If she had said, "How could you do this to me?", that would be making it about her. Worrying about her daughter's health is something else.

And if Toby's point was just that it's none of Rebecca's business, and she shouldn't be chiming in, then he doesn't have much of a case either. Kate basically insisted that Rebecca air her concerns. Rebecca wasn't trying to get into a big argument on the night of the premiere.

(Also, Rebecca shouldn't beat herself up over not confronting Teen Kate about her weight. Can you imagine how badly that would have gone? For the next twenty years she'd have to hear Kate drag her for daring to bring up her weight, and doing it at such a bad time, and making her issues with food so much worse, etc. etc.)

I think Toby's outburst was mostly because of him going off of his meds. It seems like, if he was still taking his meds, he wouldn't be so irritable and he wouldn't have actually snapped like that. 

I think Kate insisting that Rebecca voice her concerns wasn't necessarily unwarranted. Rebecca was acting different since finding out about the IVF. Kate knew her mother had opinions and she wanted to air it out instead of letting it bottle up and have it potentially explode during Kevin's premiere. It may not have been the right time or place at all, but that's why Kate didn't want her mother finding out. But if Kate hadn't have prodded Rebecca into talking, it still would have been a very tense night. Essentially, Kevin would have lost either way with his family distracted by drama, Kate and Rebecca would have been moody and pissy all night, and Toby and Miguel would have been caught in the middle. There wasn't really a winning situation here. 

Plus, I do think Toby is right. His reasoning for exploding was sound. He didn't want it to be about Rebecca and Kate. Rebecca can voice her opinions but seeing as Kate and Rebecca have consistently fought about her weight, I think Toby knew it wasn't going to accomplish anything from either side. Kate wasn't going to budge and neither was Rebecca, so Toby took the side of his wife and just wanted everyone to shut up about it. But yeah, I wish Toby exploding on his in-law wasn't prompted by him stopping his meds.  

  • Love 4
Link to comment
25 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

reminded me of my mother.  Rebecca and Kate seemed to be able to casually converse before the IVF revelation, and then Rebecca is silently judging Kate. 

She wasn't judging her.  She was worried about her.  And, again, with good reason.

  • Love 13
Link to comment
2 hours ago, Haleth said:

I was shocked that Toby yelled at Rebecca.  If my husband had yelled at my mom I'd be widow.  Sure, Rebecca is right to feel concern for her daughter, but starting an argument at that time was not helpful.  Plus Kate and Toby know the risks, even if they are ignoring them.  Moms (like me) have to let their adult children be adults.

If my son-in-law did anything like that to me, we'd have a serious problem.  Serious.  I don't care what prompted it, or who is on or off what meds.  Stifle.  Yep, place and time where Rebecca was concerned, but measure your reactions when you're a grown adult.  This irritates me about all of them, they think it's fine to be filter-free.  It's continual drama and me me me. 

  • Love 9
Link to comment
Quote

But still, I'm also a little tired of Kate focusing so much on her weight. 

Have you seen Kate? How could she not be obsessed by her weight? Besides living in that body, she sees how others look or ignore or treat her all the time.

Let's not forget that at 38, even if she were 120 pounds, Kate is still considered a high-risk. As much as many people want to say that women these days are healthier and in better shape, the medical community still seems to consider a woman over 35 at higher risk of not getting pregnant and having more problems if they do get pregnant. 

Does anyone else find their interest in the Pearson family waning? I'm especially growing weary of Jack flashbacks. His children have lived more than half their lives without him. Move on. 

  • Love 16
Link to comment
2 hours ago, Liamsmom617 said:

   You really don’t understand how hurtful that comment was to Randall? Do you remember the episode where Rebecca‘s mom came to visit when they were about 10 and kept ignoring Randall, not being interested in his science experiments, and gave him a basketball which he  clearly wasn’t interested in playing with? It was as if he was not a “real”grandchild, just her “black” grandchild. And what Kate said, to him, seems to imply that Randalll’s daughters are not Jack and Rebecca’s  “real” grandchildren just because they don’t look like Jack. Extremely hurtful. Not trying to attack you personally or anything like that. Just surprised that you don’t understand why this was so hurtful to Randall. 

And I'm surprised you didn't pick up on my questions being rhetorical. I get why Randall got pissy, I just think he needs to get the fuck over it already. He's almost 40. He's had decades to have his identity crises and come to terms with things. The fact that he's stunned into furious silence over an offhand comment (that was clearly said in the context of passing on Jack's DNA, which Randall does not possess) is worthy of a few eyerolls.

  • Love 11
Link to comment

  Randall isn't stupid, he knows full well that all the Thanksgiving traditions, catch phrases, sports fixations, parental modeling,  and a hundred other things he got from Jack have nothing to do with DNA and everything to do with being raised, taught and loved by Jack ... plus, Randall, unlike his brother and sister, has had the pleasure of having two  biological children and seeing himself and his biological father reflected in their features ... plus again, Randall has been granted the opportunity to adopt a child and give her many of the things Jack gave him.  He has no business getting all jealous because Kate is, maybe, going to get to pass on Jack's genes.

  • Love 12
Link to comment
5 minutes ago, mojito said:

I'm especially growing weary of Jack flashbacks

I'm more weary of the William flashbacks.  They don't really have anything to do with anything.  He was nice to a new immigrant.  OK.  That's great.  But, so what?

2 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

  Randall isn't stupid, he knows full well that all the Thanksgiving traditions, catch phrases, sports fixations, parental modeling,  and a hundred other things he got from Jack have nothing to do with DNA and everything to do with being raised, taught and loved by Jack ... plus, Randall, unlike his brother and sister, has had the pleasure of having two  biological children and seeing himself and his biological father reflected in their features ... plus again, Randall has been granted the opportunity to adopt a child and give her many of the things Jack gave him.  He has no business getting all jealous because Kate is, maybe, going to get to pass on Jack's genes.

Oooh, I know how they can fix everything.  Toby can go back on his meds and randall can donate sperm to Rebecca.

Edit: I was kidding, but now I'm really afraid this is the route they're going to go.  After all, it would explain the connection to the mystery person to specifically Tessa (half sister), Randall (bio-daughter), Toby (adopted/step/surrogate daughter).

Edited by Katy M
  • Love 9
Link to comment
1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

Ugh, these people. What is their deal with causing scenes in front of everyone, at the most inappropriate times? At a house showing in front of your realtor? check. At a movie premiere for your son/brother?

Heh.  I thought that for once at the movie premiere they were all -- finally -- on good behavior.  Nobody acted out, they all showed up, they looked enthusiastic.

Some other rando observations:

I like Beth and Randall's little fist bump of support and Beth saying 'My man!' in approval.  Just nice little relationship touches there.

If you are gonna hide something in the fridge, stuffing it in something at the front of the fridge is not the way to go.  Trust.  I lived with four other girls in college during my junior year.  If you want to hide your shit in the fridge, you have to be way more creative than that.

 I was focused on Randall's reaction to Kate's pronouncement, but the fact that she said 'I am the only one who can carry on a piece of Dad." is even worse when I think about it because it not only dismisses Kevin's intent to father kids but his ability to do so as well.  And she made both those assumptions without a thought.   Honestly, I would love to see Kevin as a dad.  He'd have to hold the kid at least once, bare chested and say " Daddy say whaaaat?" Also he has such a good rapport with Randall's kids.

I don't care what anyone says, I like Miguel.  And I hope we get more of him this season.

  • Love 16
Link to comment
12 hours ago, jmonique said:

As someone of mixed heritage, I get Randall's confusion, to an extent. But he's also 38 and hands down the most brilliant person in the family. Intellectually, he should have realized what Kate meant, put it aside and supported his brother. Instead, he did the Randall "OH MY GOD, I LOOK LIKE I JUST GOT KICKED IN THE FACE BY A GOAT" look that he gets when his soul is in crisis, and I just wish he had a storyline outside of the same thing we've seen for two years, and his growing obsession/over-identification with Deja.

Bahahahahah! Can't stop teeheeing over that (bolded). Gonna have to work that into some conversation in my life. Thank you!

 

1 hour ago, kili said:

Randall better be careful with that councilman - that guy was a weasel. He smarmed all over that barber shop. He shut down his own father's pet project - don't think he won't do the same for you. The guy made a big promise, but didn't even get the lightbulbs changed. He's been applied to before by actual voters, why is he going to do anything special for somebody from out of state?

Aww fer geez. We're gonna get Randall moving the fam so he can run for councilman or mayor or whatever to get shit done.

What Kate said was harsh. I get she meant about DNA but there's more than that to Jack's legacy as a father and man. Randall deferring college to help his family broke my heart. He's a good man.

I'm looking forward to the Jack Vietnam and brother flashbacks. Makes me wonder how much he told Rebecca about it all.

  • Love 10
Link to comment
12 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Randall's minute-long silence at the very end provoked like ten eyerolls from me. He's not Jack's biological son. Get over it, Randall. Why is this some massive deal? Why does a man pushing 40 have this drama queen reaction?

Because it was fucking nasty for Kate to say it.  What if someone told her that someone that obese shouldn't even THINK of having kids.  Randall knows he's not Jack's bio son, but so what?  Adoption doesn't make a child an alien.  Besides, Randall is more like Jack than either of the bio kids.

  • Love 22
Link to comment
Quote

Aww fer geez. We're gonna get Randall moving the fam so he can run for councilman or mayor or whatever to get shit done.

Now I look like I just got kicked in the face by a goat. That's probably where this is going. 

Is he going to drive Tess to a community centre in another state when she misses her TSA club?

Randall is running all over trying to find his place in this world when he already has a place. It's too bad that William couldn't get that through to him. William's acceptance of life is what allowed him serenity and a chance to live it.

Edited by kili
  • Love 23
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...