S03.E01 Nine Bucks

[qtpye]

27 minutes ago, Katy M said:

In contrast, though, she managed to be very nice and civil to the guy at the ice cream shop who didn't have her dad's favorite flavor.  I am remembering now that we saw some growth in her that day, between not going nuts at the ice cream shop, deciding it wasn't going to ruin her whole wedding that she didnt' have her dad's t-shirt, finally letting go of Jack symbolically by spreading the last of his ashes, committing to Toby, hugging her mom, appreciating what Madison was doing for her, having a nice talk with Beth (after she lashed out at her at the bridal shower, but Beth and Randall kind of brought that on themselves, IMO, it's the one Kate freak out I can acutaly get behind).  But, it seems to all have disappeared over the break.

I agree that Randall and Beth were being hella annoying at her party and her admitting to Beth that she was intimidated by her was brave and honest. I think we are supposed to be a little annoyed by Kate at this moment so we are pleasantly surprised when she does such a great job taking care of Toby when he is sick. I also hope we see Kate do something nice for Rebecca this season.

[topanga]

27 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I agree that Randall and Beth were being hella annoying at her party and her admitting to Beth that she was intimidated by her was brave and honest. I think we are supposed to be a little annoyed by Kate at this moment so we are pleasantly surprised when she does such a great job taking care of Toby when he is sick. I also hope we see Kate do something nice for Rebecca this season.

The writers seem to have a problem writing flawed female characters that people still like. As others have said so eloquently, Rebecca is often written as the bad parent and spouse in order to prop up the perfect St. Jack. This season seems to be Kate’s time to become insufferable. 

And I absolutely adore Beth, but many people in this tread see her as an annoying shrew. I still don’t understand why, but if they do, it comes down to how the character was written. 

[Enigma X]

I guess I have never saw Rebecca as a flawed bad parent or Jack as a saint.  I actually don't think all of the big three see it that way either. Kate does. But Kevin saw flaws in both Jack and Rebecca. Although Randall was upset at Rebecca for not telling him about William, it is clear that he has more adoration for his mother while still loving his father (Jack).

[debraran]

I never saw Jack as a perfect parent (of course they don't exist) more of a "fun" parent, the one that plays, breaks the rules, gives in, etc. Except for when he dumped the boys and made them walk home. Becca was left with the hard stuff, making new costumes, cooking, cleaning, managing the household, listening to the talking back, trying not to seem to have "favorites".

I hate the dating scenes, can we move on, it just made me feel sorry for Jack and it seems like you keep reading the first chapters again, give us some new "old" stories, Vietnam, etc but the dating can be summed up quickly.

[WhosThatGirl]

26 minutes ago, topanga said:

The writers seem to have a problem writing flawed female characters that people still like. As others have said so eloquently, Rebecca is often written as the bad parent and spouse in order to prop up the perfect St. Jack. This season seems to be Kate’s time to become insufferable. 

And I absolutely adore Beth, but many people in this tread see her as an annoying shrew. I still don’t understand why, but if they do, it comes down to how the character was written. 

Kaye has been insufferable for me for quite a bit now.

19 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I guess I have never saw Rebecca as a flawed bad parent or Jack as a saint.  I actually don't think all of the big three see it that way either. Kate does. But Kevin saw flaws in both Jack and Rebecca. Although Randall was upset at Rebecca for not telling him about William, it is clear that he has more adoration for his mother while still loving his father (Jack).

Eh. In the first season Jack was the greatest ever! Seriously. A lot of

opinions during the last few episodes of season one on these forums  and other places really believed Rebecca was a selfish human being for wanting to go on tour with her band, when it’s clear she waited for 17 years to get back into it, and until the kids were sort of doing their own things. 

The second season actually highlighted that Jacks gestures and over the top things were actually Kind of exhausting for Rebecca and that was nice. 

[Enigma X]

Again, I have not seen that. I have seen many posters call the character St. Jack pejoratively. And I stand by the characters on my screen don't project that even if a few posters believe that.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Enigma X

[Blakeston]

The Jack we've seen on the screen has never actually been perfect, but throughout season one the writers seemed to believe he was perfect, and they tried to shove the idea of St. Jack down our throats. That became very annoying to a lot of us.

[theatremouse]

On 9/26/2018 at 11:47 AM, Rohirrim said:

The judge stated that, "The father was given notice of today's hearing.  No objection there".  That's when Shauna stated that Dad wouldn't be a problem.  So Dad was contacted but decided not to take part....until later this season I expect.

It didn't sound to me like he was stating; it sounded to me like he was asking. Shauna was basically under oath. She was there to voluntarily terminate her rights. The father could also do so voluntarily or his rights could be terminated for him. If the state knew who he was/how to reach him they would have tried since Deja originally entered the system. If this were a permanency hearing, the situation could easily be a situation where he needed to show up to contest and by not showing up, he gets his rights terminated (depending on how long it's been since she first went into foster care). Especially if there were previous hearings he'd not shown up to. Of course, I don't buy for a minute the wording chosen wasn't deliberate. Shauna gave a non-answer that side stepped the question. I find it slightly unrealistic the judge wouldn't rephrase the question and make her give a straight answer for the record: yes or no, was he notified? But they're playing it like she vagued it up, implying he was a no show when likely he was never contacted. So now that Deja shoe-guilted him, he is likely to show up again and the whole thing blows up in their faces. It's a conspicuous set up on the show's part. But it's not like they sign the papers and it's done. It takes time, and more court, even if the mother did voluntarily relinquish her rights. Plenty of time for the father to show up and cause a ruckus and a delay.

[Ohmo]

5 hours ago, PRgal said:

I don't know how I got quoted.  The post you quoted was from @CountryGirl.  Weird. 

I typically don't participate in show forums that have this much action going on, so it's extremely likely that I screwed something up.  Apologies for the misquote and thanks for the clarification.

[DebbieM4]

12 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

At this point, I could really care less how Rebecca and Jack met. It seems that should have been featured in the first season when we were getting to know the character's. We have already seen the flashbacks of the pregnancy, the babies being born, the good and bad times in the marriage, Jack's death. Now we need to know how they met? 

I'm not interested in going back to all that either.  We pretty much already knew how they met, and I don't need to see it in any more detail - especially because what we saw was really boring.  

[DebbieM4]

7 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I don't know you, and I haven't had your experience.  In terms of Kate, if this was a "one-off,"then sure, I'd give you that Kate's emotions just got the better of her.  However, Kate routinely frames things in terms of HER wants, HER needs, and HER feelings.  No one else's, and she does it all the time.  People have said that Randall does the same thing.  I agree with that.  Randall does tend to frame things in terms of himself and his view.  The difference between Randall and Kate, however, is that I see that Randall does indeed want the best for Deeja and his girls.  He just frames it in terms of himself.  We haven't seen that from Kate, not even for Toby.  In the end, not only does Kate frame things in terms of herself, things always come back to Kate and very rarely, anyone else.

 

I completely agree with this.  Kate's emotions get the best of her all the time.  She's overly-focused on herself, and can't see beyond her own wants, needs, and feelings.  I realize she has issues - loss of her beloved dad at a young age, etc. - but so do lots of people.  She comes across as selfish, and she fully expects the world to revolve around her.  She doesn't just have bad moments - She has full-blown meltdowns.  Over and over again.  How many times do we need to be subjected to her self pitying monologues and how many times do we need to see the stunned/hurt looks of the people around her?

I'm really not sure she's equipped to raise a child.  Parenting requires a lot of focus on someone other than ourselves, and it requires a lot of sacrifice, not to mention at least some emotional maturity.  She wouldn't be able to handle it if a baby wouldn't stop crying, never mind bigger issues.

[deirdra]

I thought Beth was being annoying until she told Kevin that she was trying to protect HIM from being hurt by her cousin.  I had assumed she was going overboard with prudishness and trying to protect her cousin.

Mouth-breather Rebecca and St. Jack are FFwd material for me. Note to makeup people - if you want Jack to look 20 you have to do something to his creased and slack lower face, which still looks 40.  When they make Rebecca ~60, they paint on fake-looking forehead wrinkles, add realistic jowls, but ruin the effect by leaving her dewy cheeks high and plump like a 30-something's.  We shouldn't have to rely on clothes and newsreels to guess what decade they are supposed to be playing.  And get rid of that stupid beret!

I don't want to see selfish Kate have a string of miscarriages or a kid she & Toby are incapable of raising. They need to deal with their own problems first and pay more attention to their dog.  Kate seems to want a kid to fill her emptiness without regard for the baby, if there is one, that is likely to be born premature w/problems and have its unhealthy parents die before it graduates from high school.  Where is the entertainment value in that?

Edited September 28, 2018 by deirdra

[CelticBlackCat]

I was happy to see Kate and Toby's dog again!  I thought they could have spent a little more time with Audio though.  I know, screen time.  ;)

[JudyObscure]

14 hours ago, qtpye said:

The pregnancy storyline seems like a cliche thing we have seen multiple times and I wish they had not gone with it.

Yes and I can picture the scene where Kate and Toby finally hold a baby in their arms and the TIU audience causes stock in Kleenex to break  Wall Street and even I give into big, ugly sobs.  I just don't want to take that predictable ride with them.

6 hours ago, deirdra said:

 

Mouth-breather Rebecca and St. Jack are FFwd material for me. Note to makeup people - if you want Jack to look 20 you have to do something to his creased and slack lower face, which still looks 40.  When they make Rebecca ~60, they paint on fake-looking forehead wrinkles, add realistic jowls, but ruin the effect by leaving her dewy cheeks high and plump like a 30-something's.  We shouldn't have to rely on clothes and newsreels to guess what decade they are supposed to be playing.  And get rid of that stupid beret!

I don't want to see selfish Kate have a string of miscarriages or a kid she & Toby are incapable of raising. They need to deal with their own problems first and pay more attention to their dog.  Kate seems to want a kid to fill her emptiness without regard for the baby, if there is one, that is likely to be born premature w/problems and have its unhealthy parents die before it graduates from high school.  Where is the entertainment value in that?

 

I love all of that, Deirdre, particularly "mouth-breather Rebecca."

 

@Ohmo said:

My mother is Toby, and there are times that my mother is tempted to make impulsive decisions or thinks erroneous things, and we (me, my father, my other siblings) have to either correct her or stop her for her own self-interest.

We have someone in our extended family who needs to be talked down, from time to time, when her thoughts start to spiral into paranoia and extreme anxiety.  Supportive loved ones are almost as important as the meds when getting through life with a mental illness.  Watching for non-compliance with the meds is another valuable thing family members can do, because it's always hard for the ill person to remember just how bad things were when the weren't taking the meds.  God bless you and your family for being there for your mother so lovingly.

[mojito]

Quote

If it's from the Big 3's perspective, then why are we seeing flashbacks from before they were born?

I've always accepted the possibility that the flashbacks may not be always be accurate, that they're the recollections of the past from someone's point of view, in some case, the kids', in others, Rebecca's and William's. 

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

Eh. In the first season Jack was the greatest ever! Seriously. A lot of

opinions during the last few episodes of season one on these forums  and other places really believed Rebecca was a selfish human being for wanting to go on tour with her band, when it’s clear she waited for 17 years to get back into it, and until the kids were sort of doing their own things. 

The second season actually highlighted that Jacks gestures and over the top things were actually Kind of exhausting for Rebecca and that was nice. 

I recall Jack only objecting to Rebecca's tour once he found out that she dated her bandmate (and didn't tell him.) His jealousy and drinking made him less than perfect in my eyes. I never would call him a saint. He was the fun dad and the romantic husband. 

 

Quote

When they make Rebecca ~60, they paint on fake-looking forehead wrinkles, add realistic jowls, but ruin the effect by leaving her dewy cheeks high and plump like a 30-something's.  We shouldn't have to rely on clothes and newsreels to guess what decade they are supposed to be playing.  

If you look close enough, 60ish Rebecca has age spots on her face. Even though many women that age still dye their hair, I would like to see her with gray or silver hair. 

[Clanstarling]

I find the opinions that Kate and Toby are not fit to raise children because one is very overweight and one (until this episode) has depression issues that have been controlled through meds, simply astounding.

Not only are there many well raised children with parents with these very issues, there are many families with parents with worse physical issues (say, blindness, deafness, partial paralysis, the list goes on). By implication, anyone with a physical challenge shouldn't have children. 

There are definitely a lot of people who shouldn't have children, but I've never included people who actually love and want children in that category.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Clanstarling

[doodlebug]

21 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I mean, there's birth control, and in the United States, birth rates are continuing to go down. And I've seen several teen girls get pregnant at my work (I'm at a movie theater) and none of seem to give the baby up, especially if they're from a black family. (I feel like we saw a bit of that mindset in how Deja's grandmother definitely seemed like she was pressing Shauna to keep Deja instead of giving her up at birth.) In other words, there's not much in terms of supply, and in several U.S. states, mothers have up to months to change their mind and reverse the adoption. There was a show that focused on adoptions and there was an episode of a teenaged girl who just couldn't go through with it once the baby was here and I remember feeling so bad for the prospective parents. And then a bit irritated at the mom because the post-script basically suggested that she went into the military and her parents were caring for her daughter.

 

 

I have practiced OB in the US since the early 80's.  The number of women even considering surrendering their baby for adoption at birth is just a small fraction of what it used to be, maybe 10% of what we saw in the '80's.  In addition, the vast, vast majority of women who plan to surrender the baby for adoption change their minds when the baby is born.  Like 95% of them.  It is heartbreaking to see a prospective adoptive couple come to the hospital, maybe be present at the birth, hold the child and then have them return the next day to discover that the mother has changed her mind and doesn't want to see them.  I had a busy practice in a Midwestern city and it would often literally be years between patients who actually went through with it.  Times have changed and being a single mother, even a teen single mother, is not the stigmatizing event it used to be.  And, yes, I do think that African American women, in particular, are not likely to surrender their children for adoption; at least in part because that choice is considered less loving than keeping the baby.

I also have provided medical certification letters for women hoping to adopt or foster children.  I just have to say that the woman, at that point in time, is healthy enough to parent a child and I know of no physical or mental health impediments for her.  I don't have to predict the future, try to picture her down on the floor playing with the child or comment on whether I'd want her to be my mom.  Toby told Kate in the first season that he was depressed and on medication for a number of years.  That is not a disqualifier, either.  Now, if he were schizophrenic with frequent hospitalizations and multiple medications with a history of noncompliance; that would be a problem.  But, a parent on long term treatment for a mental health issue who has been emotionally stable on medication for years and is a productive member of society, is not going to be disqualified anymore than a diabetic or a hypertensive who takes care of themselves would be.  And, if Kate came to me wanting me to complete a health provider questionnaire for an adoption, I would have no problem signing it.

[Ohmo]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

We have someone in our extended family who needs to be talked down, from time to time, when her thoughts start to spiral into paranoia and extreme anxiety.  Supportive loved ones are almost as important as the meds when getting through life with a mental illness.  Watching for non-compliance with the meds is another valuable thing family members can do, because it's always hard for the ill person to remember just how bad things were when the weren't taking the meds.  God bless you and your family for being there for your mother so lovingly.

Thanks, JudyObscure, but I mention my dynamic because I cringe at the posts that declare that Toby's an idiot for dumping his pills.  Toby may be an idiot for other reasons, but this specific instance is 1000% driven by his illness.  I agree with everyone here who says that it was a bad move.  Absolutely true, but Toby's perception is flawed, and that's what Kate needs to learn to see because she's with him way more than his psychiatrist or a therapist will ever be.  In his mind, he's very likely thinking "90% failure rate, meds causing problem, dump meds, we have baby.  Problem solved!"  An entirely flawed logic process but completely realistic, and one he will act on in the moment.  Stress is also going to exacerbate his illness.  Meds are wonderful things, but they will not stop Toby from having that logic pattern,

Think about Anthony Bourdain.  He had appropriate levels of meds in his system.  The French investigation believes there was evidence of impulsivity in his hotel room.  I completely believe that.  Something probably sent him down a path of flawed thinking like Toby, but he was alone and made a disastrous choice.

I had also read comments that Toby should just be institutionalized if he's going to behave this way.  That is an ignorant statement that frankly ticked me off.  Toby is going to behave this way.  It is the nature of his disease.  If Kate loves Toby and wants to be his wife, she is going to have to become FAR better at anticipating possibilities than she is now.  That is a typical manifestation of  his disease and is no different than any person with a spouse who has medical needs doing something for that person.  Kate's all about Toby giving her shots.  This is what she has to do for him...and it has to be more than one "no."

[CelticBlackCat]

13 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I find the opinions that Kate and Toby are not fit to raise children because one is very overweight and one (until this episode) has depression issues that have been controlled through meds, simply astounding.

Not only are there many well raised children with parents with these very issues, there are many families with parents with worse physical issues (say, blindness, deafness, partial paralysis, the list goes on). By implication, anyone with a physical challenge shouldn't have children. 

There are definitely a lot of people who shouldn't have children, but I've never included people who actually love and want children in that category.

ITA.  Also by the implication that "less than perfect" people shouldn't be parents leaves us with what happens if a parent develops a disability or mental illness problem (that can be controlled and is nonviolent and doesn't warrant intervention) after the child is born?

As for Kate's weight problem, if she does have a child either biologically or through fostering or adoption with Toby, they can hire a nanny and/or housekeeper to help out.

Also, we just saw Toby flush his meds down the toilet in this episode.  Kate doesn't even know yet.  In last season's cliffhanger preview we saw Toby in bed nearly catatonic with what looks like depression and Kate working with him about the doctor calling about his meds.  Kate was there for Toby before they even got married through his heart attack.  Kate doesn't need to now get on board with taking care of Toby, she's been doing it.

[mcgkgm]

I know everyone loves to hate Kate, and I get it, but man, I identify with her so hard.  I have always struggled with weight (though not to her extent) and finally was diagnosed with PCOS after seeking specialist treatment following two miscarriages.  My baby is six months now, and I was 38 when she was born.  I so hope she gets her happy ending, but then it wouldn't be this show.  I think maybe us having such eerily similar stories makes me attribute thoughts and motivations to her actions that aren't really portrayed on the show.  That said, I did cringe all the way through her pity party. Save it for an actual group therapy session, girl.  I wonder if Toby tossed his meds hoping that they would get pregnant naturally before getting around to going through IVF?  Either way, it was a terrible decision.

I couldn't really tell what that building was supposed to be in the flash-forward. Maybe they are just leaving Tess's office?  She said she was visiting the restroom "before they head over" so maybe we don't know where they're headed and it's not a hospital? I went back and watched the last couple of minutes of the season 2 finale, and it seemed like they kept cutting to Beth in a meaningful way, so I wonder if she's the She that they're not ready to see.  

I felt bad for Jack on the money thing.  I know Rebecca reached for her wallet for the entrance tickets, but even during my dating days in the 90s, it was an empty gesture and just pretty much expected that the guy would pay.  And this was 20 years earlier. Fessing up to being broke would probably also have earned him a bad review, so he kind of couldn't win with that one.

Kevin and Zoe - meh, for now.  I was surprised that Beth's reaction was about protecting Kevin, though.  That was a nice twist.

[tennisgurl]

I generally like Kate and feel sympathy for her, but she can be quite frustrating. I think she is stuck in a kind of arrested development, forever the insecure overweight teenage girl mourning her dead father. From what we have seen early in the series, she rarely dated, didnt seem to have many friends, and her job was all wrapped up in her twin bothers career. She tends to overreact to things, get angry and lash out at the wrong people, is impulsive, and often seems self centered (which, to be fair, is generally a Pearson thing) and lacking in self awareness. I would like to think that her arc coming up could be about becoming more of her own person, and finally growing up. She has Toby now, and has made some slight efforts at having her own career now, so hopefully we can see more of that. 

[Kira53]

On 9/26/2018 at 7:48 AM, Pallas said:

"Why can't I get a break," said the 38-year-old newlywed to her husband and her many friends at the birthday party that they threw for her to celebrate her next year of repose. 

Are you suggesting that Kate will be dead the next year?  Maybe yes, maybe no but not on the basis of the future flash.  The future sceans are about 10 or more years in the future as the daughter is a grown-up social worker.

[DebbieM4]

19 hours ago, deirdra said:

 

Mouth-breather Rebecca and St. Jack are FFwd material for me. Note to makeup people - if you want Jack to look 20 you have to do something to his creased and slack lower face, which still looks 40.  When they make Rebecca ~60, they paint on fake-looking forehead wrinkles, add realistic jowls, but ruin the effect by leaving her dewy cheeks high and plump like a 30-something's.  We shouldn't have to rely on clothes and newsreels to guess what decade they are supposed to be playing.  And get rid of that stupid beret!

 

I agree with every word of this.   Nicely said!

[DrSparkles]

On 9/26/2018 at 5:02 AM, mojoween said:

The inclusion of The Immaculate Reception amuses me because it was only going to mean something to half the people watching, and I like that the writers were ok with that.

I’m too young to have been a live viewer of it, and at first I was like “is this a new character...?” but then when he put the Harris jersey on I knew where they were going.  A lot of fans of the NFL know that play regardless of age, Steelers fan or not (not, here, but that play is brought up all the time.)

I mean, hasn’t it been established that they’re YUGE steeler fans?!

[ams1001]

I haven't watched yet (because Cablevision takes their sweet time putting it up OnDemand), but I'm sure I would not have gotten the football bit without the comments here. I've heard of the Immaculate Reception, but it happened three years before I was born and I didn't know any of the names of the people involved (I know the name Terry Bradshaw, but I don't know anything about his actual playing career).

 

On 9/26/2018 at 12:58 PM, Laurie4H said:

That being said,  he would have some major dizzy spells without weaning off them.

On 9/26/2018 at 11:03 PM, Katekate said:

Toby is in for some serious brain zaps and dizzy spells, and possibly becoming suicidal. Poor guy. Stupid decision to quit antidepressants cold turkey after 6 years.

Thanks for pointing that out. Whenever I forgot my pill (I took it at dinner) I felt it by midday the next day. It took me a while to figure it out the first time, but after that I knew as soon as I felt that first little spin of the room. My doctor halved my dosage for a month before I went off it (after 6 years), and I still spent the better part of a week holding onto the walls just to get around my apartment. I had first talked about it with my doctor 6 months earlier (ended up waiting because my dog had just died), and did a lot of research so I would know what to expect before I did it (no brain zaps or other of the scarier-sounding possibilities, thank goodness).

 

On 9/26/2018 at 1:40 PM, qtpye said:

If this was a Lifetime channel movie Jack would have murdered her after he saw her kiss the other guy and then would have gone on a killing spree murdering lounge singers all across Pittsburgh because they reminded him of her.

Lifetime movie or Criminal Minds episode?

 

On 9/26/2018 at 4:20 PM, bichonblitz said:

Since when does Toby have a low sperm count? Kate was pregnant last year....

Since it's expedient to the story?

[Kira53]

On 9/26/2018 at 4:59 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I had a hard time feeling bad for Zoe. She chose to have sex with Kevin, knowing that she has a terrible poker face. I can't believe she actually expected him to skip HIS OWN BIRTHDAY PARTY just so Beth wouldn't figure it out. Girl, it's HIS birthday. If one of you should make an excuse not to be there, it's not the person who the birthday party is for.

Awww, I love that Madison is still friends with Kate and that she threw her such a beautiful birthday brunch.

Randall skipping around the house in his birthday hat was the cutest thing.

I want to hear more about Kevin dating Jennifer Love Hewitt. I loved him sitting on the stairs with Tess and Annie.

That request is probably the tip of the iceberg with Zoe.  It's just an example of how she thinks and how demanding she might be.  

[Kira53]

On 9/26/2018 at 2:24 PM, DFWGina said:

I have zero idea how they could possibly afford and pay for the treatments.  I know couples who have very good incomes and are in very good health who have trouble with the exhorbitant (just my opinions) costs.  I do not think Kate has a job and not sure what Toby does but he isn't pulling down big bucks like an actor (Kevin) or a stock analyst/crop futures wiz (Randall).    I need to know how they are paying!!!!

I absolutely loved the literal carrot cake she made....

 

3

I've known of people to have all of the IVF covered in full by their health insurance.  Some people are lucky like that. Toby works in what seems like some kind of computer/tech manager position.  It always seemed to me like Toby had extra money and I kind of assumed he might be a founder or owner of his company. But even if he's just a worker bee, many technology companies have fabulous health insurance and other benefits.  I know of people that worked for companies or cities with great reproductive health benefits.  As I said before, I always thought Toby had extra money so maybe he's a trust fund baby.  In addition, Maybe Kate's brothers could help them if they have no money for the medical treatment.  Especially Kevin who's just come off of a movie.  And last, but not least, some people go into debt to finance their dream.  

[breezy424]

Well, I'm sorry I haven't read the previous pages.  Just watched the episode tonight.  

Sorry if it has been already said numerous times, or maybe not, it was a boring episode overall.  Yep, we get it.  Jack had no money.  The whole date thing was just boring and way too long ....

The last three minutes of the episode was the only thing that was really interesting.  Everything else was so dragged out.

And geez Toby, you don't just throw away your antidepressants.  You go off slowly.  Good luck with the brain zaps you're going to have.

I just can't with Kate. 

The ff peaks my interest.  Who are they going to see?  I keep thinking Beth.  And why?  What happened?

[Court]

10 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I find the opinions that Kate and Toby are not fit to raise children because one is very overweight and one (until this episode) has depression issues that have been controlled through meds, simply astounding.

Not only are there many well raised children with parents with these very issues, there are many families with parents with worse physical issues (say, blindness, deafness, partial paralysis, the list goes on). By implication, anyone with a physical challenge shouldn't have children. 

There are definitely a lot of people who shouldn't have children, but I've never included people who actually love and want children in that category.

Yes, I find it very disturbing. I suffer from depression and I don't think it makes me an unfit parent. I'm overweight and have been obese at various points. A skinny person is not more capable than a fat person.

I don't know why I keep forgetting it's totally cool to fat shame everybody.

[JoBeth70]

On 9/26/2018 at 1:05 AM, DakotaLavender said:

 

I still think Randall and Tess were going to see Daysha. And in some way Toby is connected to Daysha. Did Kate form some bond with Daysha and did she go to live with Toby and Kate while remaining close to Randall and Beth and their two kids? 

Remind me again who Daysha is? I’m drawing a blank.

[ams1001]

5 minutes ago, JoBeth70 said:

Remind me again who Daysha is? I’m drawing a blank.

It's Deja (like déjà vu); Randall and Beth's foster daughter.

[JoBeth70]

Got it, thanks for clearing it up!

[ChromaKelly]

11 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I have practiced OB in the US since the early 80's.  The number of women even considering surrendering their baby for adoption at birth is just a small fraction of what it used to be, maybe 10% of what we saw in the '80's.  In addition, the vast, vast majority of women who plan to surrender the baby for adoption change their minds when the baby is born.  Like 95% of them.  It is heartbreaking to see a prospective adoptive couple come to the hospital, maybe be present at the birth, hold the child and then have them return the next day to discover that the mother has changed her mind and doesn't want to see them.  I had a busy practice in a Midwestern city and it would often literally be years between patients who actually went through with it.  Times have changed and being a single mother, even a teen single mother, is not the stigmatizing event it used to be.  And, yes, I do think that African American women, in particular, are not likely to surrender their children for adoption; at least in part because that choice is considered less loving than keeping the baby.

I also have provided medical certification letters for women hoping to adopt or foster children.  I just have to say that the woman, at that point in time, is healthy enough to parent a child and I know of no physical or mental health impediments for her.  I don't have to predict the future, try to picture her down on the floor playing with the child or comment on whether I'd want her to be my mom.  Toby told Kate in the first season that he was depressed and on medication for a number of years.  That is not a disqualifier, either.  Now, if he were schizophrenic with frequent hospitalizations and multiple medications with a history of noncompliance; that would be a problem.  But, a parent on long term treatment for a mental health issue who has been emotionally stable on medication for years and is a productive member of society, is not going to be disqualified anymore than a diabetic or a hypertensive who takes care of themselves would be.  And, if Kate came to me wanting me to complete a health provider questionnaire for an adoption, I would have no problem signing it.

I don't think Kate is too unhealthy to be a parent, or Toby for that matter either. I do however think Kate is too unhealthy to carry a pregnancy to term. She might be able to conceive, but the risk to herself and the ability to carry to term are concerning. 
It is true though that to adopt internationally, the parent(s) have to meet the country of origin's guidelines, no matter what we think of them. Some countries do have rules against parents on psychiatric medications, have BMI restrictions, or a history of mental illness.

[Scarlett45]

On 9/28/2018 at 11:42 AM, doodlebug said:

Times have changed and being a single mother, even a teen single mother, is not the stigmatizing event it used to be.  And, yes, I do think that African American women, in particular, are not likely to surrender their children for adoption; at least in part because that choice is considered less loving than keeping the baby.

You’re very right. My mom has been a practicing Ob/Gyn is a few years longer than you and she agrees. Additionally, historically it was more culturally common for Black American women to place their children for adoption intra-family (either informally or legally) than interfamily; if a infant is healthy there will be people lining up to adopt it (no matter what race or color it is) but there are not many healthy infants being placed for adoption these days (compared to people wanting to adopt infants). 

I am not upset at Kate for not considering adoption though, nor am I upset for her outburst (the location of her bday lunch was a bad choice) but it’s that outside of Her relationship with Kevin she’s ALWAYS this way. Maybe she’s spent years neglecting herself emotionally and the pendulum has swung the other way, and that’s what we are seeing on screen (neither is healthy of course). 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Scarlett45

[Scarlett45]

15 hours ago, mcgkgm said:

I felt bad for Jack on the money thing.  I know Rebecca reached for her wallet for the entrance tickets, but even during my dating days in the 90s, it was an empty gesture and just pretty much expected that the guy would pay.  And this was 20 years earlier. Fessing up to being broke would probably also have earned him a bad review, so he kind of couldn't win with that one.

I did feel bad for Jack too. He’s just gotten back from the war, not working steady, paying his Dad a little to keep him off his back, bummed money from his friend to take her out.

Yes Rebecca reached to pay but Jack saying he had it was a cultural signifier that it was a DATE. Then he started acting weird regarding the umbrella- had she longed to think about it Rebecca probably would’ve figured out it was a money thing, but she barely knew him and yes it made for a an awkward first date. However I think she appreciated his honesty and the end, and she was attracted to him so what’s a little rain, and being short a few dollars. 

Speaking of Jack’s life, I wonder if his mother passes before her married Rebecca? He seemed to love his mother quite a bit but he never let his Dad meet her or the kids- could be his Mom passes and that’s what spurs him to propose. 

[ams1001]

10 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I haven't watched anything on NBC since Must See Thursdays.  I know I am dating myself which is probably illegal in most states, at least I know what I am getting. j/k

In any case, this is the first episode I have seen and am horribly lost.  I was hoping there would be a really quick way of getting an overview of the first two seasons.  Wiki wasn't very helpful to me.

How quick it is depends on how fast you read, I guess, but Vulture has decent recaps of all the episodes of the first two seasons. (Don't know if they're not recapping this season or if they just haven't put it up yet.)

http://www.vulture.com/tv/this-is-us/

[PRgal]

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

You’re very right. My mom has been a practicing Ob/Gyn is a few years longer than you and she agrees. Additionally, historically it was more culturally common for Black American women to place their children for adoption intra-family (either informally or legally) than interfamily; if a infant is healthy there will be people lining up to adopt it (no matter what race or color it is) but there are not many healthy infants being placed for adoption these days (compared to people wanting to adopt infants). 

I am not upset at Kate for not considering adoption though, nor am I upset for her outburst (the location of her bday lunch was a bad choice) but it’s that outside of Her relationship with Kevin she’s ALWAYS this way. Maybe she’s spent years neglecting herself emotionally and the pendulum has swung the other way, and that’s what we are seeing on screen (either is healthy of course). 

I think that's the case for many cultures.  Toronto has a fairly significant East Asian population, yet I don't hear much about East Asian kids being available for adoption (public or private).  When media report on non-white children needing homes, they usually mean black or Indigenous (Native Canadian).

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Speaking of Jack’s life, I wonder if his mother passes before he married Rebecca? He seemed to love his mother quite a bit but he never let his Dad meet her or the kids- could be his Mom passes and that’s what spurs him to propose. 

In the pilot he mentioned that his mother had knitted three jumpers in anticipation of his and Rebecca’s triplets, and she was a terrible knitter. So we know she’s alive as of their marriage and the kids’ birth, whether she lives long enough to see them grow up or to outlive her son is unknown. 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

In the pilot he mentioned that his mother had knitted three jumpers in anticipation of his and Rebecca’s triplets, and she was a terrible knitter. So we know she’s alive as of their marriage and the kids’ birth, whether she lives long enough to see them grow up or to outlive her son is unknown. 

Ah thank you. I didn’t remember that scene until you mentioned it.  Seems she does eventually leave his abusive father- good. 

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

I think that's the case for many cultures.  Toronto has a fairly significant East Asian population, yet I don't hear much about East Asian kids being available for adoption (public or private).  When media report on non-white children needing homes, they usually mean black or Indigenous (Native Canadian).

Yup. I was just speaking for Black Americans- being Black American, people mentioning Deja’s home situation up thread. Intra Family adoption (especially “informal”) is much more common than people think- look at Zoe, who was practically adopted by Beth’s parents as a small child (although we don’t know if her mom signed rights away or not). 

[Jillybean]

On 9/28/2018 at 3:49 PM, mcgkgm said:

I know everyone loves to hate Kate, and I get it, but man, I identify with her so hard.  I have always struggled with weight (though not to her extent) and finally was diagnosed with PCOS after seeking specialist treatment following two miscarriages.  My baby is six months now, and I was 38 when she was born.  I so hope she gets her happy ending, but then it wouldn't be this show.  I think maybe us having such eerily similar stories makes me attribute thoughts and motivations to her actions that aren't really portrayed on the show.  That said, I did cringe all the way through her pity party. Save it for an actual group therapy session, girl. 

 

Slightly off-topic, but have you read Chrissy Metz's book? I read it recently, and although I can't relate to her at all, it made me like CM more. I still don't like Kate, and I can't figure out if it's the way she is written, or portrayed or both. Chrissy is much more likeable than Kate!

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, though I may have missed it, but we were shown in S2 that Rebecca was on a (blind?) date with someone else earlier on the night she met Jack. She was out with him, wasn't feeling it, said she needed to go sing, and went to the open mic thingy where she met Jack. It was amazing to me that she could be out with someone else, sing at an open mic, and go to a carnival all in the same night -- and then have a guy be waiting for her at home. I couldn't recall what the guy she had been on the date with looked like and if it could be the guy waiting for her, or if this is someone else. FWIW, the guy didn't look anything like Matt Czuchry to me.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Jillybean

[Scarlett45]

19 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

It was amazing to me that she could be out with someone else, sing at an open mic, and go to a carnival all in the same night -- and then have a guy be waiting for her at home. I couldn't recall what the guy she had been on the date with looked like and if it could be the guy waiting for her, or if this is someone else. FWIW, the guy didn't look anything like Matt Czuchry to me.

I don’t recall a guy waiting for Rebecca at home. The guy we saw with the big bouquet of flowers was in another future day (her and Jack’s second date I’m assuming), it was day time. She got home from the carnival and it was dark. 

[Jillybean]

Just now, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t recall a guy waiting for Rebecca at home. The guy we saw with the big bouquet of flowers was in another future day (her and Jack’s second date I’m assuming), it was day time. She got home from the carnival and it was dark. 

Thanks for the clarification. I was dozing off while watching, so I'm planning to go back and re-watch to see what all I missed!

[DebbieM4]

12 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I haven't watched anything on NBC since Must See Thursdays.  I know I am dating myself which is probably illegal in most states, at least I know what I am getting. j/k

In any case, this is the first episode I have seen and am horribly lost.  I was hoping there would be a really quick way of getting an overview of the first two seasons.  Wiki wasn't very helpful to me.

If it makes you feel any better, I've watched every episode since Season One, some more than once, and I also was horribly lost.  Certainly a lot of it was more clear to me than it was to you since I'm familiar with the characters, relationships, etc, but I thought there was far too much that was confusing.  

[ChromaKelly]

Wasn't Jack also about to stick up the bar when he was stopped in his tracks by Rebecca's angelic voice?

[ams1001]

I finally broke down and watched on the NBC website (episode is still not up on demand, but there is a three minute "highlight" which isn't helpful). Thanks to everyone for the explanations of the football player scenes cuz I woulda been lost. I got the sportscaster voiceover at the end about 'landing in the hands of the right man'; I would have gotten that without the player's family scenes. The game footage and the comment would have been sufficient to make the point.

Deja said they drove an hour to Philly. They live in Alpine NJ, which is up north. I live in eastern/central NJ and it's about an hour and a half from here to Philly. So I googled and it's more like 2 hours from there. So that bugged me.

I don't really get why he had to take her to the apartment building just to give her a speech about how they want to adopt.

The little girl who plays Annie is just too adorable.

"I don't know how you're gonna make this right with Oprah.." "I made a donation to her foundation." ?

I thought it looked like Toby was in a hotel room at the end. Which would make sense unless he moved to the east coast at some point.

 

13 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

Wasn't Jack also about to stick up the bar when he was stopped in his tracks by Rebecca's angelic voice?

Yup. When he was asking his friend how much money he had he said something like 'none, isn't that why we're here?'

[bros402]

On 9/27/2018 at 1:18 PM, QQQQ said:

I feel like we're headed toward Madison being a surrogate for Kate and Toby. Anyone who puts that much effort into making a literal carrot cake...

That is what I was thinking the second we saw her in the episode.

[Kirkydee]

I have read through all 300+ post, but a couple of things.

WOW!! Am I old?? Or just a HUGE Steeler fan?? Or both? Half of not more of the people on here have zero idea who Franco Harris is.  One line I see people didn't pick up is everybody saying "wow, what a game"- Becca is like " huh, what game". When they show jack and Becca at that bar during super bowl XIV 8 years later she's yelling at Bradshaw taking football terminology like long time fan.  Kinda shows you how far they've come.

 

I'm way in the minority. I dont mind seeing the other guy kissing Becca.  ThIy can take that multiple directions. Is he another new prospect. Old boyfriend. Casual sex buddy?  Will our favorite couple not hook up until 3-4 years down the road because they've gone separate ways?

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

6 hours ago, Kirkydee said:

WOW!! Am I old?? Or just a HUGE Steeler fan?? Or both? Half of not more of the people on here have zero idea who Franco Harris is.  One line I see people didn't pick up is everybody saying "wow, what a game"- Becca is like " huh, what game". When they show jack and Becca at that bar during super bowl XIV 8 years later she's yelling at Bradshaw taking football terminology like long time fan.  Kinda shows you how far they've come.

You’re probably not old, This is Us just almost certainly has a large demographic that doesn’t know a damn thing about football. Case in point, I’ve lived in Philadelphia my whole life, was at my parents’ while the Super Bowl was on, watched the final play (I think), and the next day, when tasked to name five Eagles players, couldn’t get past two. 

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, Kirkydee said:

I have read through all 300+ post, but a couple of things.

WOW!! Am I old?? Or just a HUGE Steeler fan?? Or both? Half of not more of the people on here have zero idea who Franco Harris is.  One line I see people didn't pick up is everybody saying "wow, what a game"- Becca is like " huh, what game". When they show jack and Becca at that bar during super bowl XIV 8 years later she's yelling at Bradshaw taking football terminology like long time fan.  Kinda shows you how far they've come.

 

I'm way in the minority. I dont mind seeing the other guy kissing Becca.  ThIy can take that multiple directions. Is he another new prospect. Old boyfriend. Casual sex buddy?  Will our favorite couple not hook up until 3-4 years down the road because they've gone separate ways?

I'm old, since I knew before he put the jersey on that it was Franco Harris (until then I was confused). Of course, in my case it wasn't because I was a Steelers fan - it was because I was a Raiders fan and that moment was seared in my memory too, with a different emotional context.

I'm with you - I didn't mind seeing the other guy. The path to "true love" can be twisty and interesting (and explain some of the dynamic we complained about during the first two seasons.) Then again, I'm always fine with letting storytellers (of any ilk) unfold a story the way they intend. Generally speaking (though not always) things that are confusing pay off later on. Sometimes it's brilliant, sometimes it's not.

Edited September 30, 2018 by Clanstarling