S20.E12: Nominations #4

[Rachel RSL]

23 minutes ago, After7Only said:

The M word and the N word are not equivalent.  At all.  Both are offensive, but it’s naive to equate the two.  So let’s stop that line of discussion, please and thank you.

I don't believe I said the words are equivalent. They obviously each have their own history. I simply pointed out that each word is just as offensive and hurtful to the people they're aimed at. And neither Bay nor JC were using them to be hurtful, they were both using them to explain/get information.  The problem is that JC probably shouldn't have said the word to begin with and Bay definitely shouldn't have kept repeating the words after she'd been told how offensive they were.

[Mumbles]

2 hours ago, Callaphera said:

2 hours ago, Kris117 said:

 

Literally, Sam went from the top of my personal rankings to right down to the bottom with that. 

You know what isn't female empowerment? Shaming other women. Like Sam just did. 

The worst! She’s pissed that “they don’t respect the young men in the house”? Yeah, because you know who gets short shrift in our society? Young white men. Eye-roll. 

I also bristled when Sam was all, don’t bother to come to me to make your case, I’ve made up my mind. IMO people should keep an open mind and be willing to hear others out. Me thinks she has a bit of a high horse.

Speaking of toxic masculinity, I can’t help but think that Brett’s hatred of Rockstar - who hasn’t really shown herself as a threat - emanates from the fact that, I’ll be frank, Brett has no interest in fucking her. Older than him, mom with kids, performatively eccentric. To a dead-eyed snake bro like Brett, unfuckable = worthless.

As for the very special discussion....I’m just glad they showed it, instead of pretending it wasn’t happening, like they tried to do that horrific season with Aryan Aryn and the rest of those horrible people.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Mumbles

[LoveLeigh]

5 hours ago, Cherry Cola said:

It was absolutely exhausting watching the convo.  I don't think in that instance that Bailey needed to be mad.  

 

JC was making AN ANALOGY and WITHIN the analogy he SAID the word instead of referencing the word with a letter from the alphabet. He did not call Bayleigh that word. Bayleigh says her intelligence was insulted, but honestly within that conversation she displayed little understanding of what JC was even trying to quite intelligently explain. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by DakotaLavender

[lilmarysunshine]

50 minutes ago, After7Only said:

The M word and the N word are not equivalent.  At all.  Both are offensive, but it’s naive to equate the two.  So let’s stop that line of discussion, please and thank you.   I get why Bayleigh was upset.  She was trying to explain, but he wasn’t interested in understanding during the argument.    At the same time she was stuck in her own trauma around the word, and couldn’t accept his explanation either.   

According to whom? Who is the final arbiter? I know a little person who is greatly upset by m______ wrestling advertised, etc. It is dehumanizing. I don’t even like JC but I saw him trying to explain it in a way that she could relate to. Conversations about race and ethnicity are such minefields that it isn’t surprising problems persist when people are constantly on guard and on the defensive when they did not even mean to offend. 

And, yep. Tyler certainly seems to use flirtation with Kaitlyn but no castigations for his game. And Sam looked ridiculous dancing. I used to like her but she is just a little too something. At least Brett doesn’t pretend to take the moral high ground in his game. 

[Cotypubby]

Jesus Fucking Christ, Bayleigh. JC did nothing wrong, he literally did the same thing you just did. You don’t have a monopoly on offensive words. 

And just when I was starting to like Bayleigh.

[Kris117]

26 minutes ago, Mumbles said:

I also bristled when Sam was all, don’t bother to come to me to make your case, I’ve made up my mind. IMO people should keep an open mind and be willing to hear others out. Me thinks she has a bit of a high horse.

Plus it’s a good way to pick up information from others. I could understand her wanting some control over who was in the room and when, because I too would grab at the chance for some privacy, but shutting off communication is just dumb. 

[mojoween]

There is so much to unpack in this episode but I’m so flabbergasted by all of Sam that I can’t even formulate a thought.

Oh.  Except this one.  If you throw a comp, and it’s clear that you threw the comp, you can’t compete in that particular one for the rest of the summer.  It’s annoying.

[MrHufflepuff]

1 hour ago, Snappy said:

II agree using the N word is not okay, but wonder why it’s okay for rappers to use it.

Because the offensiveness of a particular usage depends on the context and who is saying it.  And this is something most of us deal with all the time, and you've probably dealt with before too.  If my best friend calls me a "bitch,"  I'm not going to get upset.  But if someone bumps into me at a bar and then calls me a "bitch," I would be offended.  It's the same word, but the offensiveness changed based on who said it and the context it was said in.

And in-group/out-group usage distinctions are also common.  Marines call each other "jar head" all the time.  But if you aren't a Marine and you go up and call a Marine a "jar head," well, that's probably not going to go over well.  That's very similar to how it's okay for African-American rappers to say the n-word, while it's not acceptable for me or you to say it.

But if we go with rappers, you probably aren't going to hear the n-word in any over-the-air broadcasts.  I didn't even know that the Kanye West song "Golddigger" had the n-word in it for a long time, since the n-word is removed for the radio cut.  So, it's not even always acceptable for rappers to use it, and they will get censored regularly if they do use it.

Language usage often doesn't follow simple rules.  The usage of the n-word is a bit more complex because it's tied into the history of race relations in the US.  A lot of people don't have the time or inclination to learn about that history in that detail, so it's just safer not to say it. 

[Brian Cronin]

Man, the Angela and Rachel edit is BRUTAL. 

For instance. I'm pretty sure Angela threw HoH and I'm even more sure that Rachel SUPER threw it, but they didn't even bother to give us a quick Diary Room to confirm it, because the show was basically, "Eh, who cares what they're thinking." Harsh.

[HeShallBMySquishy]

2 hours ago, Callaphera said:

Three letters, derogatory word for "gay".

It does kinda feel like a crossword at this point

 

You're close! It's actually two-syllables and six letters, just missing the "got" at the end.

I know exactly which word he's referring to. Some of my earliest memories were being chased by groups of kids throwing rocks and calling me that name, so much so that it became my unofficial name. I'm 35 now, and I still feel the wounds of being called that. I was 7 years old, I didn't even know what that word meant!

And let me tell you, there were absolutely no anti-bullying campaigns back in 1990/91, nothing to combat bullying like there is now. (Which brings up a whole other deep-seated issue with people throwing the word "bully" around like it's nothing, just because someone pisses them off, but I won't even get into that right now.) And back then, you really only had two choices: 1) say something and get bullied even worse afterwards, or 2) say nothing at all. You can probably guess which one I chose.

My parents eventually moved me out of the reservation school (I am also First Nations) and into the elementary school in town, where I was one of 9 non-white students total. The kids (mostly the boys) were...just as bad there, but now I had the added pleasure of heavy racism on top. They eventually found others to torment, and I somehow survived, but man, hearing things like that for can really fuck with a kid's psyche. I have blocked out much of my childhood for good reason.

Sorry for my rambling. Just had to get that out.

Edited July 23, 2018 by HeShallBMySquishy

[Brian Cronin]

Kaitlyn was sort of rocking the Chandler Bing school of emphasizing certain words. "I can't EVEN believe you would think I would do that." "That you don't trust me is LITERALLY breaking my heart."

[Negritude]

59 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

Man, the Angela and Rachel edit is BRUTAL. 

For instance. I'm pretty sure Angela threw HoH and I'm even more sure that Rachel SUPER threw it, but they didn't even bother to give us a quick Diary Room to confirm it, because the show was basically, "Eh, who cares what they're thinking." Harsh.

This! In the words of Evelyn from Basketball Wives, they are non-mf'n factors...which probably means they'll make it far, definitely jury. 

[CalicoskiesNC]

I thought JC handled the initial convo with Bay quite well. His analogies were spot on. He was not saying it to be offensive, nor was it directed at her or another person. Once she heard that word tho she refused to follow the dialogue. All 3 of the offending words were on same plane, very offensive and derogatory. She asked him a ? about the m-word. He didn't get upset but tried to tell her what that equates too. He tried to connect his answer to her brain. I thought Bay seemed ignorant and dumb.

[amazingracefan]

Sam doesn't understand the game, first she thought it would be great to be HoH even though one of them may come back, and then she didn't want to discuss nominations like her mind was set whatever, and then she makes it personal.

I find the problem with discrimination and abuse is that people tend to think it only affects a few kinds of people (such as around 'race' or gender or sexuality), and that it mainly only affects their own kind. That's obviously not the case at all, and that's where some kind of hypocrisy can sometimes be evident. Bayleigh focused on how she could end up screaming over such issues because of her own particular experiences, but she wasn't aware of how other people can also have their own experiences of different kinds of abuse.


Save Our Kaitlyn

[llewis823]

10 hours ago, PaperTree said:

Now the big question becomes: "Is the evictee smart or talented enough to win the challenge to get back in?"

This very thing is the reason I think Sam chose the two she did - because she thinks they are not strong enough to win their way back in and anyone else on the block would have been strong enough. That being said, I did agree with her about how Kaitlyn and Hayleigh play is embarrassing to themselves HOWEVER, I think Sam was STOOOPID to say it and put a target on her own back. She already alienated the ones who want to hang all over each other in the HOH room every week by telling them she wanted the privacy. (Hell, I'd want the privacy from all of those people too.)

[Skycatcher]

8 hours ago, Mumbles said:

As for the very special discussion....I’m just glad they showed it, instead of pretending it wasn’t happening, 

 

 On the other hand, I was very glad my remote control has a mute button. It's a perfect case of YMMV.

N-word, F-word, C-word, M-word. It's like Sesame Street for grown ups! How about the E-word, as in, Enough already. 

Meanwhile, they can "fuckityfuckfuckfuck" all day long. *I* find that offensive. Who cares. I still watch.

I am thoroughly over this discussion. I would suggest to the moderator that a separate thread* be created so people who are vitally interested can continue the discussion somewhere else.

* You can call it "'Woke' me when it's over."

Edited July 23, 2018 by Skycatcher
Because I'm a smart ass.

[ghoulina]

I'm sooo glad they aired the footage of Angie losing her shit again. "On my daughter's birthday???" will never get old. Also - "I CANNOT!" - "Then don't." Bahahaha! 

But, can we stop for a minute and talk about - Aradia, Avalon, and Isaac? Who named those kids? Wilbur from Charlotte's Web?

It looks like Brett's little stunt WASN'T part of some grand master plan, but merely personal. Because he can't stand Angie. Either way, it worked perfectly with Tyler and Winston's little plan. Now we've got people suspecting it actually WAS Kaitlyn and Tyler continues to lie low. 

But....even better...Kaitlyn has another one of her clairvoyant "hits" and decides that NO ONE flipped. Sam used her power app. Which coincidentally gave her exactly two votes to steal. mmmhmm. Because that's likely. But I loved how Tyler rolled with it, catering to her massive ego. "How do you DO that??" As if he's so in awe of her "power". Tyler til the end!

Angie continues to cry and sob after HOH comp. But then....it gets better....she decides to try and emulate Josh with the pots and pans??? Girl, bye. If you're going to be obnoxious, could you at least do it an authentic way? 

Again, I'm no Brett fan, but he is definitely coming off as the winner in this exchange. 

 

Soooo glad Sam won HOH! And I'm loving how she's cutting through all the bullshit. No holding court in the HOH room. No sucking up. I'm nominating whom I'm nominating and that's it. Look, I get the need to be fake in this game, but it's such the antithesis of my personality that I find it a breath of fresh air when a Sam or a Cody blows through that house. 

I loved her nomination speech as well. I thought it was gross the way both Haleigh and Kaitlyn were hanging all over Tyler at the same time. If women want to use flirtation to get their way, that's their choice. But I don't have to like it. I do think it cheapens the game. (But I will say, Sam is a wee bit naive if she thinks the boys are actually BEING manipulated by this crap. Tyler, especially - he's using their manipulation to manipulate them back.)

 

And now for the big drama - the JC/Bayleigh dust-up. I'm totally on JC's side in this. He did not use the "n word" in a derogatory way at all. In the context of the conversation, I understand his usage and don't see it as a problem. Now, of course, that doesn't mean someone else would be wrong for feeling offended. But I do not think Bayleigh was listening to him at all; she was unwilling to give him any grace. 

It really pissed me off how she was like, "I asked a question - you made a statement". Oh shit, we're getting real petty now, aren't we? Come on. Question or statement - they were both having an information sharing session, where several derogatory terms were used - out of BOTH of their mouths. And, just my opinion here, I don't think anyone gets to decide which slur is more offensive. Making it a competition only causes further division. And I noticed JC never said n***** again, only referred to it as "n word", whereas Bayleigh DID say m***** several more times. 

I get that the word may have really triggered her and that prevented her from being able to listen rationally to JC. But I really didn't like seeing him raked over the coals when he really was just trying to explain something from HIS world. I was glad they were able to understand each other better in the end, though. 

[amazingracefan]

8 hours ago, green said:

Thanks.  I had actually forgotten the word even existed. 

And yeah there was a play they showed on PBS last year I think about this young white liberal guy trying to get along with Afro-Americans especially stubbing all over himself trying to not remotely offend them and ending up tying himself up in knots just to get a full sentence out of his mouth.  He was always apologizing and asking if this and that was offensive and not being able to carry on just a simple normal conversation.  It is fine and great and wonderful to not offend anyone but it is really getting hard to communicate when some new word hits the "proscribed" list every other day it seems.

Not that the F word is new but you catch my drift.  I sure can't keep up at times.

Edited to add that -- OT -- the play I mentioned above was called Honky which was a derogatory term towards whites back in the day but since forgotten.  You can view it here:  https://www.pbs.org/video/onstage-america-onstage-america-honky/

The meanings of words change all the time.  The 'n' word wasn't meant to be derogatory I think but it became associated with an era and could then be used badly.  And then some try and claim it back as their own word so it's no longer abusive, while others can't use it.  Some words eventually go full circle from being normal, to being abusive, to being in regular use with no bad meaning.

[Thalia]

33 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

My gosh this episode sucked with non-stop victim hood.  Non-stop whining.

What was BB19 Cody's catch-phrase?  Was it "victim noises"?  I never thought I'd forget that.  But I did. 

[Guest]

Please keep all feeds talk out of the ep threads.  Thanks.

[amazingracefan]

7 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

But....even better...Kaitlyn has another one of her clairvoyant "hits" and decides that NO ONE flipped.

Kaitlyn did bring up the possibility that JC and Tyler flipped, but Hayleigh shot it down.

 

But I agree on Bayleigh/JC, though whether she really understood it all by the end I don't know.

[ghoulina]

10 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't think he's 5 feet. My mom in 4'11" and I suspect he's shorter that her but he's definitely no taller than her.

I don't think he's 5 feet either. It's hard to tell on TV, but he definitely looks shorter than that, to me. Remember, this is the guy who is horrible with numbers. He thinks Fessy is 300 lbs. And that there's only 1 million people in America. 

 

9 hours ago, Snappy said:

I likeSame as much, if not more now. Whether people agree with what she said, at least she was honest instead of going behind their backs.

Exactly. One thing I can't stand is when the HOH gets up there and delivers some cowardly speech about how ____ and ____ are such "competition threats" and "get out there and play Veto, man!" Makes me roll my eyes every time. I appreciated her honesty. 

[ghoulina]

53 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

If the women initiate it, it is on them, and it is their fault.  It is called owning their own game.

If male house guests started forcing themselves on to female house guests, we would probably have another lame ass "very special episode"  with "teachable moments", in which male house guests would explain why they should keep their hands to themselves.  Which I agree that they should.  It would be nice if the female house guests kept their hands to themselves as well.

And I think there HAVE been cases of men latching onto women and benefiting from THEIR game play. McCrae and Amanda come to mind. 

I don't see Tyler the same as a Kaitlyn/Haleigh. Tyler is playing this game HARD. If he uses the fact that the girls are into him to his advantage, that's just smart, IMO. But if flirting/showmance is your ONLY strategy....that is what I see as cheap. It may be a valid, effective strategy; but it's just not one that I like.

 

Oh, and speaking of keeping hands to themselves - when Angie was doing her stupid pots-n-pans stunt, did I see her literally jump on Brett at one point? It looked like she was sitting on him for a minute? If so, that's not okay at all. Can you imagine if the situation were reverse? 

[Growsonwalls]

12 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Exactly. One thing I can't stand is when the HOH gets up there and delivers some cowardly speech about how ____ and ____ are such "competition threats" and "get out there and play Veto, man!" Makes me roll my eyes every time. I appreciated her honesty. 

There's honesty and there's needlessly burning bridges. Sam could have said "I connect with you guys the least in the house" which would have been 100% true but not a personal attack. Whatever you think of Haleigh and Kaitlyn Sam knows her HoH might get nullified this week, so whoever she evicts can come back. So what she did was just piss poor gameplay, true or not.

[mscav]

Sam is an idiot. First, there was no reason whatsoever for her to even want HOH this week. She is the only person in the house that knows 100% that whoever is voted out this week has a damn good chance of walking right back in. I know she told a few people but they only have her word on that. She should have given it to Tyler. Then she ostracizes both sides of the house by not allowing anyone to talk to her about nominations even though she's not even in an alliance. Then she slut shames her two nominees in front of the entire house knowing that they and all of their friend will now come after her (guessing it may make some of the other women in the house upset as well). And once again, she makes sure to completely offend two people who she knows will most likely not be going anywhere.  

[CringeWatcher]

8 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

 And Sam looked ridiculous dancing. 

Seriously, that dance needs its own thread. Like, what in the actual fuck?  LOLOLOL 

[Lady Calypso]

43 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Oh, and speaking of keeping hands to themselves - when Angie was doing her stupid pots-n-pans stunt, did I see her literally jump on Brett at one point? It looked like she was sitting on him for a minute? If so, that's not okay at all. Can you imagine if the situation were reverse? 

She did. It was a quick shot, but when Angie did lay on him, Brett seemed to immediately put his arms up. I mean, bang the pan in his face all she wants, but I think laying on him was the wrong move. That's physically initiating something and holding power over someone who cannot push her off, as it would reflect badly on him (and Angie seems like the type who would tattle to production if he had pushed her off). 

51 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Exactly. One thing I can't stand is when the HOH gets up there and delivers some cowardly speech about how ____ and ____ are such "competition threats" and "get out there and play Veto, man!" Makes me roll my eyes every time. I appreciated her honesty. 

Sure, it was honest, but it was pointless. The fact of the matter is that she knows both women have a very high chance of staying because of her power. She knows that neither of them are likely to leave, even with just a chance of coming back. So...she decides to turn it personal? It was also mean spirited. Sure, Kaitlyn has a boyfriend outside of the house and has been very clingy with the other men in the house (this episode had her whining to Fessy about....something), but Sam went about it the wrong way. And even with Haleigh, who seemed visibly affected by Sam's speech, who hasn't done anything wrong because she's single and is allowed to flirt. Meanwhile, someone like Tyler, who is playing the game, has been using Kaitlyn for his own gain, and yet him, and the other men, are defenseless to these seductive women? I don't get why Sam made it personal against the girls and made it seem like the guys needed protection.

All this speech did was put a target on her back when there was likely not one before. And slut shaming, which Sam was 100% doing, is never cool. If you want to call out their behaviour, do it privately. If you want to turn it into a game move, maybe avoid implying they're sluts. 

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Playing the victim card isn't female empowerment either.  Sam had a right to said what she said, and it was pretty gutsy for her to do it.  I am proud of her for doing it.  How many times have we seen multiple female house guests  Haleigh and Kaitlyn pawing over Tyler and Faysal?  That is embarrassing.

Sure, they have, but haven't they also been shown to do the same thing? So why is it that Tyler and Faysal suddenly have no control over the situation? I don't get why Sam made it seem like Kaitlyn/Haleigh were forcing themselves on these guys when Tyler has been playing Kaitlyn from the start, and I haven't seen any evidence of Faysal not wanting the attention? It was just an assumption Sam seemed to make about the girls and I'm not sure why. Also, Sam dresses similarly to Kaitlyn so I don't get the appearance comment.

[HighMaintenance]

I think Sam may be be suffering from "new manager syndrome".  Her behavior reminds me of every employee that has been promoted to a supervisory position.  They suddenly become the arbiter of everything in their environment and WILL make sweeping changes (even though she's in power for less than a week).  Although I thought her approach to HOH - not going to have 1 on 1's, locking the HOH door, etc.  was hilarious!  All the other hamsters sat their slackjawed.   Those 1 on 1 meetings are a waste of oxygen - everyone's up there just to blow smoke anyway.

[watch2much]

10 hours ago, Snappy said:

As for the dramaversation, I think JC was trying to tellBayleigh the M word is as offensive to him as the N word is to her. He just happened to use the word in the explaination, as did she. I agree using the N word is not okay, but wonder why it’s okay for rappers to use it.

I was watching this with my son who went to a magnet school within a school that was predominantly African-American.  He heard that word used a lot by the black students to each other and questioned why if the word is so bad, it's not universally banned, and I had no answer for that.  Same with the previous quoting of lyrics....this it's ok for us but not you mind set is ridiculous.  I think Bayleigh totally over reacted and I found it funny that she was discussing discrimination with an almost dwarf, gay, hispanic person.  All she had to say was even using that word in context offended her and please to not do it again.  and no, repeatedly using the derogatory word for dwarf after being told it was as offensive is not ok for her and her context.  

[Jess14]

So over Sam and her slut-shaming, and I say that as someone who cant stand Kaitlin, and would love to see her gone (No issues with Hayleigh). I can’t remember the last time someone went so quick from a houseguest I kind of liked to the bottom of the barrel. She can’t leave fast enough at this point. Had she simply called out everyone using flirting to their advantage (including Tyler and Faysal), that would be a different story, and while I would still find it annoying (I mean, these are grown ass adults, not pre-teens), I would at least buy the cheap gameplay angle. She didn’t. She played the “poor wittle young men who are just being disrespected by these manipulative harlots!” I have zero respect for her or her 1950s bs.

[Skycatcher]

5 minutes ago, Jess14 said:

 I have zero respect for her or her 1950s bs.

 Lately, I find myself surprised by this kind of thinking. Yet there is a segment of society for whom this is all pervasive.  I am constantly surprised by the people who are now crawling out from under their rocks, and Sam has just joined them.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Skycatcher

[Skyfall]

9 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

Man, the Angela and Rachel edit is BRUTAL. 

For instance. I'm pretty sure Angela threw HoH and I'm even more sure that Rachel SUPER threw it, but they didn't even bother to give us a quick Diary Room to confirm it, because the show was basically, "Eh, who cares what they're thinking." Harsh.

It’s likely more to do with all the chaos Thursday/Friday that they didn’t include it. Hell the title video was cut short...

[After7Only]

11 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I don't believe I said the words are equivalent. They obviously each have their own history. I simply pointed out that each word is just as offensive and hurtful to the people they're aimed at. And neither Bay nor JC were using them to be hurtful, they were both using them to explain/get information.  The problem is that JC probably shouldn't have said the word to begin with and Bay definitely shouldn't have kept repeating the words after she'd been told how offensive they were.

When I saw they are not equivalent, I'm saying they are not equally offensive.    A better analogy for JC to have used is if he said using the M word is like calling Bayleigh ghetto (and notice I didn't use G-word...LOL).    Still offensive but with less of the baggage of the N word.   Bayleigh pretty eloquently talked to JC about being one of the few blacks in her school and having that word used against her and how it made her feel.    Not to say the the M word doesn't produce similar triggers in some of the little people community.  However, a good percentage of viewers (not all) did not even know that M word was considered to be offensive, whereas 100% of viewers know that N word is.   And even most who know it's not PC to call someone the M-word, still use the actual word in the context Bayleigh used it.    JC was not born in America, and may not have been aware of history/potency of the word, but the forum posters here do for the most part.  So please stop equating/comparing the 2 words.    

11 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

According to whom? Who is the final arbiter? I know a little person who is greatly upset by m______ wrestling advertised, etc. It is dehumanizing. I don’t even like JC but I saw him trying to explain it in a way that she could relate to. Conversations about race and ethnicity are such minefields that it isn’t surprising problems persist when people are constantly on guard and on the defensive when they did not even mean to offend. 

 

450 years of American history is the final arbiter.    Slavery, Dred Scott, Jim Crow, segregation, separate but equal, red lining, the KKK, Aryan brotherhood, and rallys in Charlottesville, and others parts of the US, etc..... all final arbiters.  

Edited July 23, 2018 by After7Only

[Skyfall]

The thing is JC told her it was offensive and she kept using it all the while he did his best to even avoid saying “the n-word.” If Bay wanted respect she would’ve respected what he tried to initially put across. JC should have never said it but in the context of the conversation I see why he did and while Bay had every right to be offended she should have not been  defensive and shutting down considering the tone and context he used. In the end, if you’re in the BB house it’s just best to not get into any of these conversations. Sam had the right idea kicking everyone out (and this convo might’ve been partly why she wanted to be alone).

[Vixenstud]

Sandy Griffith (Sam as Andy’s twin) can eat a mega slice of FUCK OFF! pie this episode.

Her reasoning for nominating Kaitlyn/Haleigh was straight up wack.  I was screaming at the telly like ‘Bitch, you ain’t Gandhi, hell you ain’t even Margaret White chastising Carrie before the prom!’  When she was Sammy the Robot she couldn’t STFU with all her crying and whining about how no one would talk to her; IMO she played ‘Oh, poor victimized me’ to the hilt. 

Now, while Kaitlyn is gross with her Tyler/Fessy clinging, I don’t see Haleigh leading Fessy on at all….furthermore, this has absolutely nothing to do with their game play.

While I respected her HOH rules (i.e., not coming in unless asked, already made up her mind as to who would be nominated), the head bobbing like she was the shit was so unnecessary. 

Oh, and Angie?  Please stop with the blaccent, it is quite annoying.

[Nashville]

50 minutes ago, CringeWatcher said:

Seriously, that dance needs its own thread. Like, what in the actual fuck?  LOLOLOL 

What’s the phrase - “dance like nobody’s looking”?  Good on Sam for that’un. :)

Regarding Sam’s restrictions on the HoH Room - I totally applaud her idea, if not her particular implementation of it.  In seasons past (maybe as far back as TWoP) I recall both myself and others writing extended diatribes on how the HoH Room Door is the only HG-lockable door in the House, and it’s that way for a reason.  That used to be part of the gameplay initiative which made winning HoH desirable; along with its various responsibilities, the HoH role also came with several perks - private room, private bed, private bath and toilet, the HoH basket with special treats and letters from home, the HoH camera feed, and the House’s only truly selectively enforceable opportunity for private discussions - which belonged solely to the HoH, and whomever s/he chose to share it/them with.  At least, it was that way until a long succession of doormat HoHs chose to share the HoHR with everyone in the House and/or lacked the gumption to say “No” to anybody - at which point the HoHR became devalued to just another room in the House, where other HGs freely graze their way through the HoH basket, use the HoH’s shower, and roll around in their bed (I don’t know about y’all, but I tend to be mighty damn selective about who gets to roll around between MY sheets).  And in recent seasons we’ve even seen the HoHR totally usurped by other HGs to the point they had no problem kicking the HoH out of their own room (witness Paul and Josh).

So no, I don’t have any problem with Sam wanting to reassert the HoH’s authority over their own damn room; she’s simply the first HoH in over a decade with enough ova to do so, and it took everybody by surprise.  My only problem was the hamfisted way Sam went about it - although with THIS bunch of chucklenuts it’s quite possibly the only way they were going to take it (and her) seriously.

Sam’s Veto nom speech, though...?  Yeah, that was fucked up.  I believe I understand- to a degree - what Sam was about, although I nether condone or support it.  But I have to say - the folks here on the boards must be a mighty cosmopolitan bunch of motherfuckers, to not know how many tens of thousands of little podunk communities still exist in America where the social mores and morality are still somewhat stuck in the 50s-60s, and the outside world just barely trickles in every now and then.  And most people plucked out of that environment and dropped into a House in the middle of Century City are going to be just as much a fish out of water as Sam is, and not realize how much their environment-ingrained beliefs are totally out of touch with today’s mainstream.  So I’m not going to hate on Sam - I just feel sorry for her, because she has no clue.

[Mumbles]

Quote

I don’t see Haleigh leading Fessy on at all….furthermore, this has absolutely nothing to do with their game play

I don't watch live feeds so all I see is what the show shows, but I found Sam's attack on Haleigh especially jarring.  And I felt bad at how hard Haleigh took it.

I went to the BB official page because all this time I assumed Sam was young but after that Church Lady speech I thought, hmm maybe she's older but looks younger. Nope, she's 27.  Shaking my damn head.

[le bordel chaud]

3 hours ago, Thalia said:

What was BB19 Cody's catch-phrase?  Was it "victim noises"?  I never thought I'd forget that.  But I did. 

Rude!

[Growsonwalls]

43 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Sam’s Veto nom speech, though...?  Yeah, that was fucked up.  I believe I understand- to a degree - what Sam was about, although I nether condone or support it.  But I have to say - the folks here on the boards must be a mighty cosmopolitan bunch of motherfuckers, to not know how many tens of thousands of little podunk communities still exist in America where the social mores and morality are still somewhat stuck in the 50s-60s, and the outside world just barely trickles in every now and then.  And most people plucked out of that environment and dropped into a House in the middle of Century City are going to be just as much a fish out of water as Sam is, and not realize how much their environment-ingrained beliefs are totally out of touch with today’s mainstream.  So I’m not going to hate on Sam - I just feel sorry for her, because she has no clue.

This might be true, but no one forced Sam to come on Big Brother. She must have known she'd be in a house with strangers who might not share her values and living habits. And she never voiced these opinions until she became HoH and had some power. As I said, piss poor gameplay from her. 

[llewis823]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I'm sooo glad they aired the footage of Angie losing her shit again. "On my daughter's birthday???" will never get old. Also - "I CANNOT!" - "Then don't." Bahahaha! 

But, can we stop for a minute and talk about - Aradia, Avalon, and Isaac? Who named those kids? Wilbur from Charlotte's Web?

It looks like Brett's little stunt WASN'T part of some grand master plan, but merely personal. Because he can't stand Angie. Either way, it worked perfectly with Tyler and Winston's little plan. Now we've got people suspecting it actually WAS Kaitlyn and Tyler continues to lie low. 

But....even better...Kaitlyn has another one of her clairvoyant "hits" and decides that NO ONE flipped. Sam used her power app. Which coincidentally gave her exactly two votes to steal. mmmhmm. Because that's likely. But I loved how Tyler rolled with it, catering to her massive ego. "How do you DO that??" As if he's so in awe of her "power". Tyler til the end!

Angie continues to cry and sob after HOH comp. But then....it gets better....she decides to try and emulate Josh with the pots and pans??? Girl, bye. If you're going to be obnoxious, could you at least do it an authentic way? 

Again, I'm no Brett fan, but he is definitely coming off as the winner in this exchange. 

 

Soooo glad Sam won HOH! And I'm loving how she's cutting through all the bullshit. No holding court in the HOH room. No sucking up. I'm nominating whom I'm nominating and that's it. Look, I get the need to be fake in this game, but it's such the antithesis of my personality that I find it a breath of fresh air when a Sam or a Cody blows through that house. 

I loved her nomination speech as well. I thought it was gross the way both Haleigh and Kaitlyn were hanging all over Tyler at the same time. If women want to use flirtation to get their way, that's their choice. But I don't have to like it. I do think it cheapens the game. (But I will say, Sam is a wee bit naive if she thinks the boys are actually BEING manipulated by this crap. Tyler, especially - he's using their manipulation to manipulate them back.)

 

And now for the big drama - the JC/Bayleigh dust-up. I'm totally on JC's side in this. He did not use the "n word" in a derogatory way at all. In the context of the conversation, I understand his usage and don't see it as a problem. Now, of course, that doesn't mean someone else would be wrong for feeling offended. But I do not think Bayleigh was listening to him at all; she was unwilling to give him any grace. 

It really pissed me off how she was like, "I asked a question - you made a statement". Oh shit, we're getting real petty now, aren't we? Come on. Question or statement - they were both having an information sharing session, where several derogatory terms were used - out of BOTH of their mouths. And, just my opinion here, I don't think anyone gets to decide which slur is more offensive. Making it a competition only causes further division. And I noticed JC never said n***** again, only referred to it as "n word", whereas Bayleigh DID say m***** several more times. 

I get that the word may have really triggered her and that prevented her from being able to listen rationally to JC. But I really didn't like seeing him raked over the coals when he really was just trying to explain something from HIS world. I was glad they were able to understand each other better in the end, though.

Ghoulina, I think maybe you and I are the same person...Every single thing you said - I agree 100%! 

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

However, a good percentage of viewers (not all) did not even know that M word was considered to be offensive ...

Exactly. Which is precisely why JC was trying to explain it. 

[Halting Hex]

1 hour ago, After7Only said:

450 years of American history is the final arbiter. 

So…Latinos, gays, and short people haven't suffered enough to be as offended as Bayleigh was, is that the idea?  I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with the idea that there's a specific tipping point after which it's "no more!".  Were anti-black slurs acceptable before Plessy v. Ferguson, but not after?  (Not to be overly flip, but I hope you take my point.)

I don't think I can get behind the idea that "cumulative oppression" allows Bayleigh to be more offended than JC. Allison Grodner is, I think, Jewish…should she be telling Bayleigh to get over herself because the attempted genocide of the Holocaust was more horrific than "mere" slavery and discrimination?  JC is entitled to find his triggering words just as offensive as Bayleigh finds hers, I should think.  But JMO.

(I'm also not thrilled at the idea that the words themselves need to be scrubbed from our collective consciousness, by completely stripping them of context.  In the early days of Law & Order [goodness, over 25 years ago now], they portrayed African-Americans using the word to each other without it needing to be censored from our delicate little ears. For example, when a black activist excoriated black ADA Paul Robinette [Richard Brooks], he said that "you have got to be the most down-the-river [n-word] I have ever met" and when Anita Van Buren [S. Epatha Merkerson] confronted a black man who had been "passing" for white, she asked if he went along with whites by laughing at their "[n-word]" jokes.  Was it so offensive to show actual black people using the word that way?  And, going back before that, TV and movies used to show racists being racist by using the word…was that wrong?  Or just realistic?)

So I don't find it terribly offensive for JC to use the word simply as an illustration, since he wasn't using it to attack, but simply as a point of comparison.  But I respect him for respecting Bayleigh's request that he not do that any more, whereas she went on to "quote" him repeatedly…which is a hair-split I frankly doubt that she'd enjoy being on the receiving end of, herself.

In other news…

• Tyler continues to be very lucky.  Not only do Haleigh and Kaitlyn come up with a theory that completely lets him off the hook without his having to "plant the seed" in any way, but Chris is no longer in the house to point out that if a power had been used, Julie would have said something.  And so the very same "it was a power!" defense that Tyler tried to unsuccessfully use on Kaitlyn's behalf two weeks ago is now being used by Kait herself, unknowingly on his behalf.  Karma?  Nah, probably just luck.

• Speaking of Tyler's being lucky, I noticed that even when the mask slips, it works in his favor.  Kaitlyn tells him "swear on your father's grave that you didn't flip the vote" and he goes "I would never do that" and she thinks he's responding to the second part of her sentence ("you didn't flip the vote") when in fact he was responding to the first part, i.e., he doesn't want to be swearing on his dead dad.  (Especially as Chris used up his patience with that tactic, two weeks back.)  And I really don't think he was such a mastermind to construct a sentence so perfectly to mislead Kaitlyn that way; I think he was offended, and got lucky that she was listening for the reassurance he wasn't actually giving (confirmation bias, in other words).  Easy enough considering her attachment to him, but even still.

• Not only does Nonstar (™cork dork in the feeds thread) lack any imagination whatsoever in her "tormenting" tactics (you're not being terribly intimidating when everyone is laughing at you, lady), but she's really lucky she didn't get a penalty for laying unwantedly over Brett's (alleged) "micro-penis" that way.  If he had been draping himself over her genital area, she'd probably have tried to get him tossed on a rape charge.  But of course the rules are different for women, or something.

• I guess we know what it takes to see a "Who wants to see my HoH room?" these days, huh?  Has to literally be right in the middle of dramatics like Kaitlyn/Faysal and has to lead to a Big Speech by the new HoH.  Still, I'll take it for the nostalgia value alone;  too bad we didn't get to hear Sam's letter.

• While I appreciate Sam's dedication to evicting the leeches (Foutté and co.) that had been infesting the HoH the first three weeks, often swarming up there in a pack, I do think that cutting off all pre-nominations access not only made her look bitchy, but cost her a chance to gain information and/or create further divisions.  Overkill, perhaps?

• Then again, perhaps the DR/Tyler whispered in Sam's ear about Bayleigh's power and Sam decided that the best chance she had of not having her noms overthrown was to keep her cards as close to her chest as possible.  Bayleigh (rightly) had no reason to suspect she was in danger of going up and so she waited for another day, and Sam got to make her own noms.

• Wrong noms, though.  Since Sam knows her power will be used this week, this means she should be looking to evict a weak competitor, who will either fail the "chance" to return or be too impotent to seek revenge should they make it back in. This means Nonstar, obviously.  Sam could have nominated Angie and Fessy, saying that she had been nominated (in week 1) for coming in last in a challenge, so she was nominating the first two to fall this week.  And pointed out that they had both voted to evict her back then, and that they'd been on the opposite side of the vote from her in the other two weeks as well…"at least as far as you tell me".  Good target, minimal blood.

• Instead, Sam comes out with her ridiculous obnoxious "female empowerment" slut-shaming speech, which is playing really personal with at least one nominee who'll be staying in the house, and Sam knows there's a good chance they'll both be around next week.  Why make so many damn enemies?  Not a good look.

• Especially as it may not have been anything as high-minded as "morality", after all.  Sam may have had a long and complicated romantic history, but at the end of the day, she's only 27 to Tyler's 23; perhaps she simply doesn't like seeing Haleigh (21) and Kaitlyn (24…she claims) all over her "good friend" that way?  Is Sam, at the end of the day™, nothing more than jealous? Of girls who wear bikinis much better than she does, or at least since she did when she was a robot?

"O beware, my lord, of jealousy; It is the green-eyed monster which doth mock the meet it feeds on"

Ooops, wrong play…well, maybe they'll have Haleigh do a sequel.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Halting Hex

[ShaNaeNae]

I'm at work and the CBS website is blocked by our firewall so I can't double check, but I thought JC said in his bio (or it may have been the initial interview with Ross) that he's actually 4'10", but tells people he's 5 feet.  Which I don't get the purpose of.  I'm glad he cleared it up that he's just short because I've been wondering this whole time if he actually has dwarfism that hasn't been diagnosed.

[Jess14]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Sam’s Veto nom speech, though...?  Yeah, that was fucked up.  I believe I understand- to a degree - what Sam was about, although I nether condone or support it.  But I have to say - the folks here on the boards must be a mighty cosmopolitan bunch of motherfuckers, to not know how many tens of thousands of little podunk communities still exist in America where the social mores and morality are still somewhat stuck in the 50s-60s, and the outside world just barely trickles in every now and then.  And most people plucked out of that environment and dropped into a House in the middle of Century City are going to be just as much a fish out of water as Sam is, and not realize how much their environment-ingrained beliefs are totally out of touch with today’s mainstream.  So I’m not going to hate on Sam - I just feel sorry for her, because she has no clue.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m not at all surprised that there are people with Sam’s viewpoint. I also don’t think it’s necessarily a byproduct of of growing up in a small town. Sexism isn’t constrained to small, middle of nowhere areas. Regardless, Sam is cosmopolitan enough to go on a reality show. Im not going to give her a break anymore than I will anyone else who has chosen to go on a reality tv show. Kaitlin may well have a ton of childhood reasons why she acts like she does, but I don’t care about that either. She’s annoys and she needs to go - along with Sam. 

[HighMaintenance]

16 minutes ago, ShaNaeNae said:

I'm at work and the CBS website is blocked by our firewall so I can't double check, but I thought JC said in his bio (or it may have been the initial interview with Ross) that he's actually 4'10", but tells people he's 5 feet.  Which I don't get the purpose of. 

I would guess for the same reasons Tom Cruise does it. :)

[Halting Hex]

32 minutes ago, ShaNaeNae said:

JC said in his bio (or it may have been the initial interview with Ross) that he's actually 4'10", but tells people he's 5 feet.  Which I don't get the purpose of.

Apparently, 4'10" (or lower) is the height at which you are defined as having dwarfism, rather than simply being of short stature.  If JC has felt discriminated against on account of his (lack of) height, perhaps he doesn't want to be "officially" a dwarf.  But I'm only guessing, I admit.

[jumper sage]

46 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

 JC is entitled to find his triggering words just as offensive as Bayleigh finds hers, I should think.  But JMO.

I agree and she never really caught on.  It is ok that we have a list of offensive words.

47 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

So I don't find it terribly offensive for JC to use the word simply as an illustration, since he wasn't using it to attack, but simply as a point of comparison.

I agree again.  When the story broke on various news networks they did not have the all the facts or the whole picture.  Bayleigh had no problem saying the M word and who, in this day and age, doesn't know that is a very, very offensive word.  The M word is associated with violence and thinking the person as a lesser being.  Maybe a little, black, gay person could explain it to her.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I just love Evil Genius Tyler. 

Just because Kaitlyn, Haleigh, Rockstar and Faysal are idiots doesn't mean Tyler is a genius. 

[Cutty]

The issue I have is JC could have made the point he was going for by just saying "n-word" instead of saying the actual word. And I think he realized that because in his retelling to Tyler and the others he said n-word and not the actual word. 

Bayleigh wasn't really listening to what he was saying, and didn't consider the fact that JC is also a minority who has arguably faced tougher circumstances in his life (immigrant, gay, physical appearance). Basically both parties could've handled themselves better. 

[Vixenstud]

Is Sandy the only HOH we got the privilege of seeing?  I don't recall the 'who wants to see my HOH room' when Poodlehead won.