S04.E18: Lose Yourself

[Trini]

Quote

When Barry and Team Flash find a way to enter The Thinker's lair, Ralph considers crossing a dangerous line to defeat DeVoe. Meanwhile, Joe is concerned by Harry's recent behavior.

Hanelle Culpepper directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza

 

[mtlchick]

Well foop.  I was finally warming up to Ralph and while I had an inkling something bad would happen, the result still hurt to the point where I want the team to somehow save him.  Which...will probably won't happen. 

[Rachel RSL]

And that's why, when you get the chance, you always KILL the bad guy. You have the Giant Tuning Fork of Death....use it! Barry and his guilt trip...why do they keep listening to this fool? On the plus side, Original Flavor DeVoe is back!

[jmonique]

This show is turning into such a chore to get through. The Flarrowverse writers need to learn that 21 straight episodes of the good guys ALWAYS being behind the bad guys is not enjoyable television.

Every single actor who's tackled DeVoe has been just horrendous. Ralph was tolerable for a few minutes, and now we have OG Scene Chewing Big Head. 

Is it May yet?

Edited April 18, 2018 by jmonique
Used wrong word.

[Lady Calypso]

Well, they finally moved things along, I guess. I only caught the second half of the episode, but I guess it's bye-bye Ralph? At least, I hope it is and they're not going to have some twist where they are able to save Ralph and separate him from Devoe. 

I just haven't grown to like Ralph, so I'd be ok if this was his sacrifice. 

That's one way to solve the Killer Frost problem. By literally morphing Caitlin's DNA. She is gone for good, right? Which means it's just Caitlin, no powers and no split personality?

I'll have to read here to see what I've actually missed.

[Primal Slayer]

Well it was certainly better then last week but very predictable.

Of course DeVoe is caught and OF COURSE Ralph forgets to lock the cuffs...and OF COURSE DeVoe uses Ralphs stretchy powers to stretch himself into his original looks (something that never made sense to me).

I'm more pissed that they depowered Caitlin (because of course the males have to carry all the power) then that Ralph appears to be "killed" but I am going to guess that his stretchy powers made it so that his body can hold multiple minds and he will fight back in the finale to purge DeVoe and regain control. 

The fights were fun.

Ralph finally grew a pair this week and acted like they were there the entire time. You can't go from last week where you were scared to be a hero to this week where you are challenging Barry and acting like you would be a better leader. 

[Maverick]

 Yeah, Ralph got bonus points for calling Barry a dumbass (ok, that's the word he used in my head)  He lets Thawne go in Crisis and now advocates not killing Devoe.    Stop trying to be the anti-Oliver, Barrry.  

 Nice of Team Flash to put the remaining metas together in one place so Devoe can bulk shop like he's on a field trip to CostCo.  Maybe put them on a different Earth or have the Legends hide them in time.

 So Devoe saved Ralph until last so Barry could train him.   Um, OK  Not sure what good that did.

 This episode was depressing.  So much for our lighter, bubblier season.   Thanks Devoe for stealing that too.

 I'm still wondering if Ralph is a one season and done character like Eddie, Zoom and Julian before him or if Team Flash will miraculously find a way to save him.  

[cambridgeguy]

Hold on, did Ralph really refer to STAR labs as a maximum security facility?  That might be the stupidest thing anyone has ever said in any Arrowverse show.

As for stupidest action, why not speed your extremely dangerous enemy into a cell BEFORE you start engaging in a self-congratulatory conversation about how awesome you are. 

And boy, I sure am glad we've got this lighter season.  Barry in jail, watching all of the bus metas get killed, losing a friend (OK, he'll probably be fine in the finale but still), it's a laugh a minute.

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

I'm more pissed that they depowered Caitlin (because of course the males have to carry all the power) then that Ralph appears to be "killed" but I am going to guess that his stretchy powers made it so that his body can hold multiple minds and he will fight back in the finale to purge DeVoe and regain control. 

The one thing I think they were trying to do here is correct Kreisberg's major mistake when it came to Caitlin vs Killer Frost. I'd love for them to give Caitlin powers again without turning her into another person, but they really misstepped with Killer Frost being a dual personality with little explanation as to how she would get that way, while every single male has had little to no problem with their powers. Maybe this is a beginning of a do-over for Caitlin, which would work with me. I wasn't crazy with how they made Killer Frost into some comedic moment this season just to turn Caitlin and bring KF out as she made snarky remarks and nothing more. 

I'm also convinced that they'll save Ralph and he'll still be part of Team Flash next season because they've had a lot of missteps with male characters trying to join the team. Ronnie in season 1, Hunter Zolomon playing Jay Garrick in season 2, Julian in season 3, so I think they want one new character to make it past a season. 

[shantown]

Pretty sad that Killer Frost just got unceremoniously killed off. So much they could have done with that character and now Caitlin will continue to be sidelined. 

PLEASE let Ralph be a one and done character, even if they miraculously find some way to save him. I can’t take him stretching into another season and ruining it. 

[phoenics]

Damn Iris is a straight up badass.  Marlize tries to stab her, Iris grabs the sword, stabs herself to throw Marlize off her guard, and growls, "Get out of my lab!" and throws Marlize and her chair into a pocket dimension.

Bad. Ass.

[Lantern7]

Ralph: Rookie, DeVoe is gunning for me. I like living. If I break his neck, would that be a bad thing?

Barry: First of all: HEROES. NEVER. KILL. Usually. Secondly, he has eight sets of abilities. You take "Folded Man" to the lair, it won't end well. Please leave this to the professionals.

[later]

DeVoe: Tarnation! Team Flash done gone plumb loco! They go for my big chair, and they didn't check if I was actually there! Oh, and I'm really over being Izzy. I done like not having a pecker, but this here accent's got to go! [hitting a nearby spittoon]

Seriously, call in Oliver. DeVoe can predict everything? Okay, lets see him anticipate an arrow to the neck. No Felicity or Diggle, no Team Broen Arrow, no bring in Supergirl. One arrow? Problem solved. As must as I like taking a break from a speedster Big Bad, it gets tiring watching DeVoe pwn Team Flash over and over. I didn't expect him to depower Caitlin, which is an extra kick to the ribs. Sadly, it's going to come down to Whasherface to figure out about her husband "modifying her and siding with Team Flash, sacrificing herself in the end.

On 4/10/2018 at 10:36 PM, Lantern7 said:

ETA: Oh, and since it's been shown that Ralph can "do" Cliff, Cliff would "return" looking like himself.

Called it!!!! Well, Ralph "doing" DeVoe was foreshadowing. Didn't expect the short hair, though.

Also, I was expecting that Harry was faking a dependency on the "thinking cap," letting Gideon do the heavy lifting, And she wouldn't mind that he wasn't "her Wells," because she's been offline for so long. Nope . . .  he's an addict, and he choked in the clutch.

I'm pretty sure Ralph comes back, because he's old-school Flash canon. Question is if the other metas would be restored . . . or at least those that were possessed.

ETA for @bettername2come . . . this is me form last week.

On 4/10/2018 at 10:36 PM, Lantern7 said:

Sadly, I think the obvious direction has Cliff saving Ralph for last. He'd probably figure Ralph's body can handle all that dark matter, and his brain can adjust to the massive intellect. Also, he can impress his wife. "I apologize for violating your mind on multiple occasions. I'll make up for it now. You'd better stand back for this one." Then he winks and blows really hard into his thumb.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Lantern7

[bettername2come]

I have a feeling Killer Frost isn't gone for good. Her and Caitlin leaving notes for each other was cute, but I keep hoping they'll explore Caitlin as actually having some kind of dissociative identity disorder enhanced by powers. Like the trauma of losing her husband and then finding out she was dating a serial killer who then kidnapped her made her have a psychotic break as she created a version of herself that was her total opposite, but also would protect her, unlike her murderous Earth-2 counterpart. This probably belongs in the Caitlin thread.

And no way is Ralph gone after they give him his best episode yet. I really liked him in this one. And when Devoe started talking about the "ancillary benefits" of Ralph's stretching powers, shapeshifting back into Clifford was not the first thing that came to my dirty mind.

Seriously, sometimes bad guys need to die.

[tennisgurl]

Wow, I remember when I thought the slow march towards Irises inevitable death was depressing. This season has somehow been even more depressing, what with Team Flashes 100% failure rate when it came to saving the bus metas. When they showed the wall with "victims" written on it, it was honestly quite sad. They literally saved no one, even the innocent people, and their friend and teammate. Its just so miserable watching DeVoe run circles around Barry and company. 

And its too bad, because I was actually liking the episode. I liked the super chill hippie meta and his hippie compound (make sure to properly leash your spirit animals!) and there were some nice moments with the team, especially Joe confronting Harry about his addiction to the brain helmet. *Iris stabbing herself to take down Mrs. DeVoe was super badass, as was Joe fighting the Samari robot. 

But then Barry and his freaking "no killing" rules rears its ugly head. I mean, yeah, killing people sucks and if it can be avoided, it should, but come ON Barry! DeVoe is super-powered, extremely dangerous, and is basically a serial killer. I think the guy needs killing, is what I`m saying. And now that Barry guilted Ralph into not killing him, Ralph is (probably) dead, along with the other bus metas, and his enemy is now even more powerful. So, good job on that one! JUST KILL HIS ASS!

If Ralph is gone, then I admit I`ll be sad. I think he might work better as a reoccurring character than a main one, but I liked seeing him develop, and I enjoyed the dynamic that he brought to the team, when they weren't just stuck in "Ralph whines about being a hero, someone gives a speech" mode. It would be nice though if they could somehow save all the bus metas that were killed, even though thats pretty unlikely now I guess. Also, is this really the end of Killer Frost? I hope maybe now they can figure this all out.

Wasn't this season supposed to be lighter? Yeah, nothing more light and cheerful than Barry going to jail on chumped up charges, and the team being totally unable to stop a serial killer from murdering every single bus meta (some of whom were innocent or not totally evil) including one of their friends. You got a weird definition of lighter, show. 

*Badass West Family for the win! Iris is one tough chick. I`d vote for her as team leader. 

[Katsullivan]

11 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

*Badass West Family for the win! Iris is one tough chick. I`d vote for her as team leader. 

Don't forget Joe West 1 Samuroid 0.

The Badass is Strong in that family. 

[tennisgurl]

20 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Damn Iris is a straight up badass.  Marlize tries to stab her, Iris grabs the sword, stabs herself to throw Marlize off her guard, and growls, "Get out of my lab!" and throws Marlize and her chair into a pocket dimension.

 

That was so hard core, I wanted to do a slow clap. Iris is the hero we deserve. 

[ruby24]

The problem is that these people always get stuck in the SAME DAMN FORMULA for every single season.

They cannot think their way out of it, apparently. 

I knew for weeks that Ralph was going to die and also that he would die in this episode. You know how I knew? Because I've seen this happen before at this point in time on the show in every previous season. They always get set back in episode 18, always. 

That's a real problem. Look, I know it's a long season, I know you have to fill 23 episodes. But when you set up a season long villain in the first episode, then fall back on a formula where everyone says "we have to stop X villain" in every episode, but you can't defeat him until the finale, so they keep failing over and over until then...that gets tiring and depressing. Because I guess the characters have to be upset about failing over and over, if you want the story to mean anything, they can't just shrug it off.

But the answer to this rut is not to keep doing the same thing over and over again. I know that superhero shows used to be a lot more episodic and monster-of-the-week, etc (like early years of Smallville for example). I think it's time for that to make a comeback, I really do. Just do fun, adventure episodes and keep the relationship stuff ongoing. And you know what- you can go ahead and put in a serialized villain for the last 2-3, or 4-6 episodes leading up to the finale (maybe one of the metas who got away earlier in the season). 

This same old formula is so predictable, so tedious and so played out. I'm ready for a retro superhero season again at this point, more like old Lois & Clark or Smallville. Throw in some two-parters, maybe even a three-parter. The best episodes of the show in recent days were the standalone ones, like Enter Flashtime (or the musical, I would argue). Even the one with Iris getting powers was relatively standalone.

Edited April 18, 2018 by ruby24

[SevenStars]

3 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

The problem is that these people always get stuck in the SAME DAMN FORMULA for every single season.

They cannot think their way out of it, apparently. 

I knew for weeks that Ralph was going to die and also that he would die in this episode. You know how I knew? Because I've seen this happen before at this point in time on the show in every previous season. They always get set back in episode 18, always. 

That's a real problem. Look, I know it's a long season, I know you have to fill 23 episodes. But when you set up a season long villain in the first episode, then fall back on a formula where everyone says "we have to stop X villain" in every episode, but you can't defeat him until the finale, so they keep failing over and over until then...that gets tiring and depressing. Because I guess the characters have to be upset about failing over and over, if you want the story to mean anything, they can't just shrug it off.

But the answer to this rut is not to keep doing the same thing over and over again. I know that superhero shows used to be a lot more episodic and monster-of-the-week, etc (like early years of Smallville for example). I think it's time for that to make a comeback, I really do. Just do fun, adventure episodes and keep the relationship stuff ongoing. And you know what- you can go ahead and put in a serialized villain for the last 2-3, or 4-6 episodes leading up to the finale (maybe one of the metas who got away earlier in the season). 

This same old formula is so predictable, so tedious and so played out. I'm ready for a retro superhero season again, more like old Lois & Clark or Smallville.

They can also divide the season, by having two villains. One for the first half, who gets defeated within that first half. And another who get defeated in the second half or even keep going to the next  season for the first few episodes. 

[Jediknight]

Iris vs Marlize, Joe vs Samuroid, and Flash, Killer Frost, and Cisco vs Devoe Ralph.  This episode brought the good action pieces.  How is it possible, that they did it better than Arrow?

[MarquisDeCarabas]

Starting to think Savitar had the right idea.  If I was Ralph my last words would have been, I told you we should have killed him.

I'm slightly more annoyed at the fakeouts that suggested that DeVoe didn't know exactly where the metas were. Why is he pretending to Marlize he needed to search for them.  Is it because he was trying to hide the fact he already had the weeper? It was clear that Harry figuring out who the last two were with a weakened version of the thinking cap, that DeVoe would already have this info. 

Every once in a while someone comes up with a good point, Like Ralph pointing out they keep doing the same thing over and over, and they expect that work. Yet they never notice.  They know DeVoe wants the bus metas so they put them all in one place. Yet it never occurs to them once they have them all, that DeVoe is going to come for them. 

Devoe's been one step ahead of them because he predicts how they act, How is the answer not obvious; try something they don't expect.

 

DeVoe is a walking Xanatos Gambit at least try to plan around that. They have Melting point why not have him take away Null's power at least and give them to Iris or Joe.  Hell have him take Cecile's telepathic abilities and give them to Joe.

 

You know that List of rules for becoming an evil overlord? if I ever become a super hero or joined a super team I would as part of my training become a master of of Game Theory and Strategy, or find someone who can do that.  It's great to have a Superman, but you need a goddamn Batman too.

 

Just now, phoenics said:

Damn Iris is a straight up badass.  Marlize tries to stab her, Iris grabs the sword, stabs herself to throw Marlize off her guard, and growls, "Get out of my lab!" and throws Marlize and her chair into a pocket dimension.

Bad. Ass.

This is what I'm talking about Iris was unpredictable and she won, (I'm not sure how good of an idea it was to basically send Marlize back where she came from, though.)

Quote

Seriously, call in Oliver. DeVoe can predict everything? Okay, lets see him anticipate an arrow to the neck. No Felicity or Diggle, no Team Broen Arrow, no bring in Supergirl. One arrow? Problem solved. As must as I like taking a break from a speedster Big Bad, it gets tiring watching DeVoe pwn Team Flash over and over.

A thousand times this. The promo suggests they might start thinking outside the box, a little late though.

[UNOSEZ]

34 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Damn Iris is a straight up badass.  Marlize tries to stab her, Iris grabs the sword, stabs herself to throw Marlize off her guard, and growls, "Get out of my lab!" and throws Marlize and her chair into a pocket dimension.

Bad. Ass.

That said... Iris may need to go gang out with Oliver for the summer.. Get her fight game up... So she can go out in the field more... Or go train with dude who trained O.G Laurel cuz that only took like  3 weeks 

 

Thank Beebo Dibny is dead... Please don't bring him back... Or if they do. ( somehow as part of everyone coming back to life)  send him away... He Mon-El'd this season and I can't sit thru another scene of barry teaching him hero 101...  Or everyone marveling because he did something mundane..  

[tennisgurl]

12 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

But the answer to this rut is not to keep doing the same thing over and over again. I know that superhero shows used to be a lot more episodic and monster-of-the-week, etc (like early years of Smallville for example). I think it's time for that to make a comeback, I really do. Just do fun, adventure episodes and keep the relationship stuff ongoing. And you know what- you can go ahead and put in a serialized villain for the last 2-3, or 4-6 episodes leading up to the finale (maybe one of the metas who got away earlier in the season). 

 

Word to all of this. I like when shows can be serialized, but i think the stand alone episode is something of a lost art on TV these days. Watching the villain just win over and over while the heroes look increasingly miserable is not only depressing, its a slog to get through. Having a few stand alone episodes, or ones where the main focus isnt the main bad guy at least, can break things up, give the heroes a few wins (without messing with the overall arc), can build character and relationships, and can allow the show to play with different concepts and ideas. Thats especially important on a show like this, where they have the opportunity to mess around with so many science fiction or super hero tropes, and one off episodes can be great places to have those. We dont need to go back to shows being almost totally episodic, but the whole Netflix binge "Its a 12 hour movie" style of TV is starting to grind at me. 

[SevenStars]

After watching Black Lightning finale, I wish some of their writers would move over to this show, cause this show clearly need better writers and Black Lightning seems to have the market on that. 

[TwistedandBored]

I am bored during the beginning of this episode cause I thought it was gonna be another Ralph episode. I only got excited when Iris was like, "tonight we go after the thinker".

 

The fight scene between Marlize and Iris was great. I also really liked that not only was Joe present for this episode but he also helped save the day. 

However, I ma be honest here and say, I disliked how they brushed off Iris getting stabbed even if she did it to herself. I also didn't like how they are making Ralph's death effects Barry the most when Iris was the one person who put up with Ralph and treat him like he wasn't a nuances. I thought Barry was gonna grief with Iris or ask her how she is doing but nope. 

 

All in All, I didn't feel anything when Ralph died. At least the original Devoe actor is back which I liked.

 

[colorbars]

Their attempts to make me like Ralph were too little, too late and I did nothing but legitimately cheer when he finally died. My only though during his speech about caring about his new "family" was that HS did a good job there and it was a nicely written speech, but I didn't feel anything for Ralph at all. I'm not convinced they won't find a way to save all the metas that DeVoe has absorbed by the end, when they defeat him, but if they do, Ralph better leave because I can't stand another season of him.

Killer Frost being gone is too easy and quick, and I'm sure there will be some way around that.

Iris stabbing herself with that sword and telling Marlize to get out of her office was the highlight of the episode, that was a really great moment for her.

[Jack Kerouac]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

But then Barry and his freaking "no killing" rules rears its ugly head. I mean, yeah, killing people sucks and if it can be avoided, it should, but come ON Barry! DeVoe is super-powered, extremely dangerous, and is basically a serial killer. I think the guy needs killing, is what I`m saying. And now that Barry guilted Ralph into not killing him, Ralph is (probably) dead, along with the other bus metas, and his enemy is now even more powerful. So, good job on that one! JUST KILL HIS ASS!

Seriously. How many deaths is Barry responsible for now? How many people does Devoe have to murder before Barry slips into Flashtime and just snaps his neck!?

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

Damn Iris is a straight up badass.  Marlize tries to stab her, Iris grabs the sword, stabs herself to throw Marlize off her guard, and growls, "Get out of my lab!" and throws Marlize and her chair into a pocket dimension.

Bad. Ass.

More like dumb ass. How about capturing her and using her? Just sending her back so she can continue to help her mass murdering husband doesn't seem like a great plan. Then again, if this season has shown us anything, it's that Barry and Iris are not exactly the world's greatest thinkers.

[catrice2]

I fast forwarded through most of the episode.  The formula that worked for this show was having different bad guys each week and bringing them to justice.  When they decided to go with the season long big bad who outsmarts or "hides"  in plain sight from the good guys the y ruined it.  They have made it difficult to believe the Cisco,Caitlyn and Wells are supposed to be super intelligent, and will we ever meet the Barry that is supposed to be smart enough to build Gideon? 

Ralph was such an unnecessary character, but that is what the show seems to be good at, unnecessary characters ....Barry's love interest, the fake Jay, Julian...etc.  I have yet to see great growth with Barry, his thinking is still very confusing.  I am tired of Harry/Wells or whomever he was last season.....good grief, I've already forgotten most of last season and not one episode this season has been memorable. 

[BeautifulFlower]

26 minutes ago, Jack Kerouac said:

Seriously. How many deaths is Barry responsible for now? How many people does Devoe have to murder before Barry slips into Flashtime and just snaps his neck!?

More like dumb ass. How about capturing her and using her? Just sending her back so she can continue to help her mass murdering husband doesn't seem like a great plan. Then again, if this season has shown us anything, it's that Barry and Iris are not exactly the world's greatest thinkers.

Iris was backed into a corner. Marlize literally had a sword aimed towards her. What was she supposed to do? Did you forget that Iris' goal was get to the chair, so she could open the pocket dimension for the others to get out of Devoe's?

[HunterHunted]

Spoiler

When is that girl that we all suspect is Dawn coming into play? She's been lurking on the margins all season long.

[BeautifulFlower]

55 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

  Hide contents

When is that girl that we all suspect is Dawn coming into play? She's been lurking on the margins all season long.

Spoiler

They said she is supposedly in the season finale.

[Macktor]

Good gosh, this show (and Arrow) have become tedious. There is nothing more boring than watching a villain gain the upper hand over and over again. It's why I stopped watching Heroes. Why does anyone think this is good writing?

[Gregg247]

Barry and Co. are 0-12 this season on new Metas!  Unbelievable how this team of super-smart heroes can be so dumb and incompetent.  The Thinker keeps crowing about what a super-genius he is, but let's face it, it wouldn't take a high IQ to beat Team Flash this season.

I was genuinely shocked that they killed Ralph, mainly because I grew up reading The Elongated Man stories in the back of The Flash comics (plus, he was a Justice Leaguer!).  Oh well, I didn't really like his portrayal on the show anyway.

I don't get Barry's whole "Heroes don't need to kill." thing that he's got going on.  It sounds incredibly immature and silly, especially for a guy who spent how many years working as a CSI on the police force?  He realizes that Joe carries that gun around for more than just waving around and looking tough, right?  I really like this show, but Barry should really be getting better at fighting crime and growing up; he's not.

Killer Frost has been a big disappointment for me.  She should be a formidable enemy/ally, someone who should definitely strike fear in the hearts of her foes.  Instead, she struts into a room and immediately gets taken out by whatever bad guy they're fighting--every single time.  She might as well stay as Caitlyn all the time.

The Thinker correctly predicted that Harry would create a thinking cap of his own and give himself super-Alzheimers with it?  hmmmm, I don't know if I buy that one.

[VCRTracking]

Damn, ALL 12 bus metas are now dead? Pretty big fail for Team Flash.

I have to admit, I got teary when Flash was helpless on the ground saying "Ralph I'll save you!" and Ralph's  last words "You already did."

I also got a little emotional when Caitlin saw KF's post it notes.

Some folks on Twitter aptly compared Harry and his thinking cap with Gollum and the ring!

Loved the fight between Iris and Marlize.

[Trini]

I had to look up the writers for this one, and yep - it was from the other pair that I don’t like.

I at least hope the SFX team get their nominations/awards, because that might be the only redeeming thing about Ralph right now. I might have enjoyed the Jurassic Park reference more if they hadn’t spent most of Ralph’s screen time this entire season making me annoyed at his very presence.

Pros: Iris and Joe were able to take out the threats/villains they were up against. Iris vs. Marlize showdown! Edwin was funny - for the 5 minutes we knew him. Liked seeing them actually remember Joe is a detective. Neil Sandilands is back!

Cons: Everything else?

So it seems in order for this season’s arc (if we can even call it that) to work, the Team - our heroes that we’re supposed to root for - has to keep taking losses until… the last two episodes, probably. While also barely giving any answers about the Big Bad - which did not work well the last two times. How are the showrunners/writers expecting the audience to want to keep watching, keep interested in that? Even when there is a ‘win’ it’s been nullified a few episodes later.

And Ralph, of course. Am I supposed to buy this “the team is my family, I don’t care what happens to me” new attitude after the last episode (and most of the season)? And be sad at his death*?? Nope. And that even if he’d actually be willing to kill the Thinker, that he could actually do it - this early?

*(Which will probably be reversed somehow(spec not spoiler); but they better resurrect Dominic too, if they do.)

They really brought back those guest actors just to lie on the floor for one scene.

Harry/Cavanagh was wading into HR territory at times i thought. Hopefully, this is the end of the Thinking Cap subplot? What did it do to Harry?

“We like hero Ralph” - AHahahahahaha! Thanks, I needed that laugh, show.

So obviously, Ralph is Barry’s story this season; but I don’t think the show has made it clear WHY making him a hero is so important to Barry. And the overall season arc. Helping him to be ‘a better person’ is all very general. Because that little ‘memorial’ scene with Barry packing up Ralph’s office didn’t have the impact that it should have - IMHO.

Um, so both our female regulars getting stabbed is one thing, but the NON-reactions to them was especially odd. At least Iris stabbing herself kind of had a purpose, but Caitlin shrugging off her wound during the commercial break just made me question why it happened at all in the first place. Also it’s completely unrealistic that Barry wouldn’t speed Iris to a hospital before anything else. COME ON, SHOW.

Cisco not-so-conveniently loses his powers. Again. ::HARSH SIGH::  And again, Killer Frost is apparently useless in a fight, then her powers are taken away. I’m not sure how I feel about that, but it’s a development at least. (And the ‘science’ about her powers still doesn’t explain the split personality.)

Since when does Barry NOT want to talk to Iris about feelings, but we had time for a T-Rex skeleton race??

[twoods]

What a brutal ending. Couldn’t Team Flash get one win this season? If they beat DeVoe, it won’t even be worth it because so many people already died at the hands of that psychopath. Even his wife is being controlled by him, and now there is no Killer Frost and Harry fried his brain. Couldn’t the writers give us something to cheer or be happy about? I do admit that Iris stabbing herself with the sword was pretty badass, but DeVoe still won. How depressing.

Edited April 18, 2018 by twoods

[paulvdb]

Barry and his team are stupid. They find out that this new meta has a pocket dimension and they know that each meta can only go into their own pocket dimension. So instead of telling the guy to stay in his own pocket dimension where he'll be safe they tell him to stay at Star Labs where bad guys visit every other week.

[Trini]

27 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Damn, ALL 12 bus metas are now dead? Pretty big fail for Team Flash.

Not yet! The last one that hasn't been captured is probably dying next week.

 

2 hours ago, colorbars said:

Their attempts to make me like Ralph were too little, too late and I did nothing but legitimately cheer when he finally died. My only though during his speech about caring about his new "family" was that HS did a good job there and it was a nicely written speech, but I didn't feel anything for Ralph at all. I'm not convinced they won't find a way to save all the metas that DeVoe has absorbed by the end, when they defeat him, but if they do, Ralph better leave because I can't stand another season of him.

Hartley Sawyer is truly doing the best with what they give him; whether comedy or more serious dramatic stuff. He plays off of Grant well. It's too bad the type of comedy they write for him is out of place, and some of his dramatic moments fall flat because I just don't care about Ralph.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Gregg247 said:

I don't get Barry's whole "Heroes don't need to kill." thing that he's got going on.  It sounds incredibly immature and silly, especially for a guy who spent how many years working as a CSI on the police force?  He realizes that Joe carries that gun around for more than just waving around and looking tough, right?  I really like this show, but Barry should really be getting better at fighting crime and growing up; he's not.

Except Barry isn't really wrong. Deadly force should only be used if one's life or the life of another is in immediate danger. Additionally, if you have less restrictive means to subdue the perpetrator, you should use them. The folks on Team Flash had less restrictive means to subdue DeVoe, which they attempted to deploy, but Ralph didn't activate the cuffs. Team Flash isn't judge, jury, and executioner. They don't have the right to just kill people and I'm kind of glad that Barry has decided that his powers don't give him the authority over life and death. It's also why the pipeline prison wasn't well received by fans and why the show has taken efforts to rectify that by creating metahuman detention wings in the prison. It's why dictators and warlords go on trial at the Hague. It's actually the more sophisticated viewpoint. Unfortunately, the show isn't smart enough to have Barry connecting the not killing rule to his and his father's experiences with the justice system. 

[BeautifulFlower]

I'm not sorry that KF is gone. That storyline was getting too sloppy and inconsistent, and needed to be dealt with. I guess this was the only solution.

With that said, people on Reddit are theorizing that KF will take over Devoe since he took her power. See this is why I hated the whole dual personality thing, we have people coming up with theories like this. How does Devoe using Melting Point's power to remove Caitlin's will result in KF being inside Devoe? 

[thuganomics85]

Man, I honestly forgot that this show used to be the ray of sunshine of the D.C. universe.  This shit is just getting depressing now.

So, now almost all of the metas Team Flash has been trying to save are dead, because S.T.A.R. Labs have the worst security of all time, and even Ralph's luck has finally run out.  I'm not even a huge fan of him (although, again, Hartley Sawyer really gets credit for not making me just despite him with a passion of a thousand flames), but there just wasn't anything thrilling or interesting over him feuding with Barry (again), becoming an even bigger moron and not making sure he actually cuffed DeVoe properly, and then getting executed in front of the entire team.  Isn't it great trying to do the right thing?!  Who wouldn't want to be a hero?!

And while all that happened, you have Iris getting stabbed (at least she was a badass about it), Cisco looking worse for wear, Harry is probably going to end up losing his mind over that overload with the thinking cap, and Caitlin has just gotten her Killer Frost powers/persona stolen from her.  I think Joe might have been the only person who didn't suffer (in Barry's case, he naturally suffered plenty of manpain, since this show likes to watch him suffer.)

But I think the main problem I do have is that at this point, it really feels like DeVoe is too powerful and unstoppable, and there is just no fun in this chase.  I mean, he even foresaw Harry creating the cap and everything.  It's just getting boring.  At this point, Barry would really be better off getting outside help, because there might be a smidgen of a shot that DeVoe wouldn't predict an attack from Oliver or Kara.  Or hell, call the Legends.  No way would DeVoe be prepared for a sudden monster slam from a massive Beebo!

I'm glad that Neil Sandilands is at least back, because he's the only actor who was at least able to make DeVoe feel like a major threat.  Still hoping that Marlize snaps out of her spell and plays a part in his downfall.  Kim Engelbrecht is still killing it, at least.

At least I see that next week will try to counter this dourness with its yearly 

Spoiler

shot of Snart!

[ottoDbusdriver]

5 hours ago, Macktor said:

Good gosh, this show (and Arrow) have become tedious. There is nothing more boring than watching a villain gain the upper hand over and over again. It's why I stopped watching Heroes. Why does anyone think this is good writing?

Sylar pretty much ruined Heroes for the same reasons, and DeVoe is doing the same thing by acquiring all these powers.

Weird thing is, just as the Thinker DeVoe has come up with so many amazing things I don't get why he needs more -- anti-gravity tech for the floating chair, autonomous combat robots, pocket universe access, mind/meta power transfer tech --  he could easily set up shop and rule the tech world while making a shitload of cash in the process.  But no, his focus is on murdering his way through the bus metas and destroying the world or something, we still aren't quite sure -- and at this point I'm not sure I care any more.

[mxc90]

Too bad for Ralph. I never took a liking to this character but he was good in this episode. Thankfully, we didn't get a long fight between him and Barry.

I think the Mechanic will be an important contributor to Devoe's demise.

In an earlier episode, didn't we see a card stating Ralph owes the bus company or driver for the fare? But Edwin paid his fare?!!

Cisco owes Harry a beating for destroying the Enterprise!

Edited April 18, 2018 by mxc90

[Quark]

I didn't think it was possible to love Iris more than I already do, but it's happened.

Still don't have a clue about this Enlightenment that Devoe likes banging on about. We should have something by now.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Lets not forget that Ralph's demise was brought about by ...... yet another failure by Cisco -- the stupid meta handcuffs.

That would be the meta handcuffs that were easily pickable by Null last episode and, as we discovered this episode, not self-locking.  WTF Cisco ??

[Lady Calypso]

I will say, though, after a slew of really, really bad actors trying to portray Devoe (Kendrick Sampson exempt from this), Hartley Sawyer was probably the best of the lot. Unfortunately, he had to portray him with a straight face and basically zero emotion while talking almost like a robot. Hey, at least I could easily differentiate Ralph from Devoe in that case. That's just further proof to me that Hartley Sawyer deserved a better character to play. 

[Trini]

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Lets not forget that Ralph's demise was brought about by ...... yet another failure by Cisco -- the stupid meta handcuffs.

I think it was DeVoe who used Kilg%re's powers (before they were snapped on?) on the cuffs, and that's why he could get out of them.

[benteen]

It's hard to determine who is the biggest moron on this show.  We have Barry, whose whole "WE DON'T KILL!" nonsense helped get Ralph killed.    We have Ralph who, after deciding not to kill Devoe, decides simply to restrain him using the meta cuffs that failed in the past and decides not to KNOCK DEVOE OUT!  Seriously, Devoe is supposed to be the smartest guy in the world and he has 12 different powers on top of that.  Don't you think you should KNOCK HIM OUT if you're going to take him in alive.  It's like when Barry avoids simply knocking people out and stands around so that the villain can attack him.  Finally, we have Devoe himself, who after getting his final power set inexplicably decides to keep Barry, Cisco and Caitlin alive so that they can eventually destroy him at a later date.  It's a wealth of choices when it comes to the stupid.

Don't get me wrong, I thought Ralph's death was handled very well.  Good job there.  I also liked the Joe/Harry scenes.  And Barry's knockout of Ralph was a pretty awesome scene (It's too bad he can't do that against any actual, you know, VILLAINS).  But seeing Flash and the team rendered helpless as the villain wins again (while inexplicably leaving them alive) shows the problem with this show.  A VERY tired formula of 23 episodes revolving around the heroes spending 22 episodes getting their assess handed to them by the villain, only to win in the 23rd episode and immediately set up the threat for next season.  I favor arcs, including season-long ones.  But it's time to shake up the formula and do something different.  Something that's not as repetitive.  Also, I think the poster who said last week that it's time to get rid of the Star Labs set might be onto something.  Star Labs just represents the status quo with this show and their tired brand of storytelling.

PS, what a shock that Barry and Ralph were fighting again for half of this episode.

Edited April 18, 2018 by benteen

[jmonique]

My problem with every television show trying to adopt the "season-long Big Bad" approach is, not every writing team is like the Buffy team. And they also forget that the Mayor and Angelus were woven in throughout the season but didn't monopolize and constantly outpower and outgun the good guys. There's a balancing act that must be achieved, and none of the Flarrowverse writing teams seem to be able to accomplish that.

They need to treat seasons more like comic books, like the first season did. Wells-Thawne was lurking, always lurking -- but it was just handled so much more deftly because we had other Rogues coming in and challenging Barry. 

Also, I get that there needs to be a line between the good and the bad guys, but when the Evilest Evil to Ever Evil This Year is almost literally mowing down a dozen people in months, "Oh, gosh, killing is wrong, even when they're bad" comes off as incredibly weak when you're being raided. Again. Barry needs to sack up. I get that he's wallowing in grief for Ralph right now, but this time it is partially his fault, IMO.

Edited April 18, 2018 by jmonique

[sarthaz]

When you encounter a super-villain with a dozen superpowers who has murdered countless people and announced plans to murder countless more, not killing him when you get the chance is willfully endangering the lives of countless people. I hope Barry feels the full weight of guilt for all the people who will die because of his arrogance and stupidity.

At least the Iris fight was cool.  Everything else was shit.

[jmonique]

Just now, sarthaz said:

When you encounter a super-villain with a dozen superpowers who has murdered countless people and announced plans to murder countless more, not killing him when you get the chance is willfully endangering the lives of countless people. I hope Barry feels the full weight of guilt for all the people who will die because of his arrogance and stupidity.

At least the Iris fight was cool.  Everything else was shit.

This. IMO, Ralph was willing to accept the responsibility -- it's not like Barry would have had to do the deed. If Ralph was willing to make that call, in light of the dozen people actually being murdered by DeVoe, Barry should have accepted it as a viable option.