S03.E08: A Jury of Their Queers

[Aging Goth]

2 minutes ago, BloggerAloud said:

I'm not saying that Tyra didn't do well in her season. I'm specifically saying that Tyra didn't do great during Snatch Game. Most years since Tyra's season, the winning queen has usually done well or at the very least not bombed Snatch Game. I even give Tyra a pass since it was the first year of Snatch Game.

Yet she wasn't the worst in Snatch game either.  Morgan was.

[HunterHunted]

23 minutes ago, Aging Goth said:

Yet she wasn't the worst in Snatch game either.  Morgan was.

Raven's Paris Hilton was pretty bad as was Sonique's completely anemic Lady Gaga. Tyra's Beyonce was basically Beyonce. The thing people forget about Beyonce is that she tends to give boring very pageant-y interviews because she's been doing this since she was a kid, she's not dumb, and she wasn't raised by trash bags like Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, or Paris Hilton were.

As an aside, has anyone ever done Lindsay on Snatch Game? She's a mess and would be hilarious. As much as Chad's constantly changing Cher killed, a constantly changing Madonna would be epic especially if it covered all of her  various style iterations including her nonsense accent changes.

[BarneySays]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

Kennedy has implied that bigotry has negatively impacted her career. Other queens, fans, and journalists have provided their experiences that seem to confirm this allegation. None of them are saying that racism is the only reason why Kennedy's career isn't in the same position as her white peers. They are just saying that it has had an impact. 

FYI Chi Chi also got racist epithets and threats of violence when she knocked Thorgy out of season 8. 

I hear what you are saying, but I have not compared black queens to white cohorts.  I have compared the respective differences in responses among black queens.  It is there that the argument collapses.  Of course, there are bigots and I would not be surprised that kennedy gets some of that directed at her.  And that is wrong.  But not having people stand in line to meet her is not bigotry.  And I assume that if anyone within a venue acted in an unacceptable (bigoted) manner, that would be dealt with.  It should be.  I don't do social media and I think it provides a very skewed vision of the world.  A few thousand rabid haters on the internet do not reflect fans of the show or of drag.  It is unwise to attempt to draw grand observations from a skewed sample set.  Perhaps the solution to this is for decent people to stay off social media?

And let's not forget whose show it is.

[Fiftyninth]

41 minutes ago, BarneySays said:

I hear what you are saying, but I have not compared black queens to white cohorts.  I have compared the respective differences in responses among black queens.  It is there that the argument collapses. 

I’m not sure the argument does collapse there. For some people, there may be an implicit and unconscious bias that leads them to prefer “the right kind” of black queen - or to let a white queen get away with a specific attitude and affect that would somehow feel “wrong” to them from a queen of color. Because one’s reactions are often subconscious, this could be something that results in unfair double standards that one doesn’t recognize without actively unpacking that bias.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Fiftyninth
Typo

[annewithaneee]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

2 hours ago, Aging Goth said:

Yet she wasn't the worst in Snatch game either.  Morgan was.

Raven's Paris Hilton was pretty bad as was Sonique's completely anemic Lady Gaga. Tyra's Beyonce was basically Beyonce. The thing people forget about Beyonce is that she tends to give boring very pageant-y interviews because she's been doing this since she was a kid, she's not dumb, and she wasn't raised by trash bags like Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, or Paris Hilton were.

As an aside, has anyone ever done Lindsay on Snatch Game? She's a mess and would be hilarious. As much as Chad's constantly changing Cher killed, a constantly changing Madonna would be epic especially if it covered all of her  various style iterations including her nonsense accent changes.

Tyra bombing Snatch Game and still winning her season is a bit of an outlier because it was the first Snatch Game ever and it seemed like basically no one but Tati understood what the challenge even was -- and that was back when immunity was still a thing, so Tyra's officially standing in the judge's eyes on that challenge doesn't count...she couldn't be in the bottom two. Her Beyonce was terrible though. Her whole rationale was that she (Tyra) was just like Beyonce already so all she had to do was sit there and say nice things. So yeah, she completely flopped on Snatch game but so did basically everyone else, so it kinda doesn't count.

[rlc]

Wait one damn minute- in what universe are we supposed to believe that Bebe and Kennedy are the same age as Shangela, 36?

[AdorkableWitch]

Unpopular opinion, but strictly coming down to the LSFYL, Kennedy was robbed.  She was head and shoulders above Trixie. 

[ClareWalks]

23 minutes ago, rlc said:

Wait one damn minute- in what universe are we supposed to believe that Bebe and Kennedy are the same age as Shangela, 36?

Perhaps they are from a planet where years are far longer? ;)

[Couver]

27 minutes ago, AdorkableWitch said:

Unpopular opinion, but strictly coming down to the LSFYL, Kennedy was robbed.  She was head and shoulders above Trixie. 

Let me sit with you. I expected it though because Kennedy is a much better dancer than Trixie. I think the judges may have dinged Kennedy for not facing them and showing she knew the lyrics as much. But her contemporary style fit the angst of the song well.

[BarneySays]

1 hour ago, Fiftyninth said:

I’m not sure the argument does collapse there. For some people, there may be an implicit and unconscious bias that leads them to prefer “the right kind” of black queen - or to let a white queen get away with a specific attitude and affect that would somehow feel “wrong” to them from a queen of color. Because one’s reactions are often subconscious, this could be something that results in unfair double standards that one doesn’t recognize without actively unpacking that bias.

That's mere speculation being offered against the actual performance we have seen from kennedy.   

[2727]

10 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Kennedy might have a dour personality and a chip on her shoulder, but there are a bunch of other queens with really stank personalities and no one ever says shit about how awful they are.

I mean, Trixie admitted that she herself tends toward withdrawal and introspection. I'd never say she's dank, but she's not a naturally outgoing person. The exuberance is her on-camera persona.

The thing I don't understand with the voting for top two is why Trixie? If the queens felt moved by Kennedy's journey and story, okay. They have heartstrings that can be tugged. But taking past performance into account, Shangie was by every measure better than Trixie. If the panel was judging based on who needed the career boost ... come on. Considering how Trixie acquitted herself on the show, I can't fathom any reasoning that would put her in the top two over Shangie.

9 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Thorgy may be a weirdo but she's exactly the kind of person I'm interested in seeing on the show like this.

I'm very intrigued by Thorgy's drag, but the way her self doubt manifests itself in paranoia and grudge-holding is unpleasant to watch.

Edited March 17, 2018 by 2727

[Princess Sparkle]

20 hours ago, Corgi-ears said:

How the queens voted, a segment the show thought wasn't worth including in the actual episode:

 

Edited to add the info, for those who would rather not click play:

Aja: 1. Kennedy 2. Trixie

Ben: 1. Kennedy 2. Trixie

Chi Chi: 1. Kennedy 2. Trixie

Milk: 1. Trixie 2. Kennedy

Morgan: 1. Bebe 2. Kennedy

Thorgy: 1. Trixie 2. Shangela

Which gives Kennedy 8 points, Trixie 7, Bebe 2, and Shangela 1 giant shaft.

You know, I’m a Big Ben defender, but she loses me with this vote. She went on and on the whole season about how she was going with who did the best overall...and then she doesn’t vote for the person with the best track record all season? Fuck that.  Even if she wanted to vote for Kennedy because she was moved, where is her justification for voting for Trixie over Shangela. 

I thought Thorgy was so stank this season, but I’ll give her credit for being the only one to put aside her feelings. 

Man, All Stars should be my favorite seasons, but every single one has let me down. I just want to see good queens from different seasons do challenges with no shenanigans; is that too much to ask for?

[lazyazz18]

The ending sucked for me, Ben was really the most likely winner though we can't blame anyone for that except Ben. After Ben left my second choice was Shangela as I felt she was best overall behind Ben with looks, talent and personality. If I got to pick the winner and final ranking it would of been Shangela as the winner and:

 

2. Bebe (was the most consistent behind Shangela)

3. Trixie (I'm not really a fan but she did improve as the season went on)

4. Kennedy (Just kinda did nothing all season, had no stand out moments other than her splits and really shouldn't of been in the final 2)

[jaync]

Still SMH. At least Shangie made some bank with her challenge wins.

[Red Bridey]

Trixie and Shangela should have been the final two.  I like Trixie better, as I found Shangela's constant Game of Thrones commentary tiresome, but I would not have pitched a fit had Shangela won.  She won a bunch of contests, her lipsyncs were so entertaining and she gave it her all.  Bebe was a pretty, boring, non-entity and Kennedy was okay but I don't remember much of her drag. 

[bobbyjoe]

With all the fan attention and uproar of Shangela being robbed, I wouldn’t be surprised if we eventually see Shangela return for yet another season in the next few years.  And when they do Snatch Game she should play Susan Lucci, just to drive home the point.

[DisneyBoy]

I just rewatched Shangela's verse a good dozen times. She was that good. And fun. She also did a great job branding herself with the "Hallelu!"

Anyone else catch Ru's face as it fell when Morgan called Kennedy's name? He knew that meant either Shangela or Trixie weren't gonna make it.

Anyone know how they manage to pull off big reactions from the final two when both potential wins are staged and filmed?

Edited March 17, 2018 by DisneyBoy

[rozen]

23 hours ago, Corgi-ears said:

How the queens voted, a segment the show thought wasn't worth including in the actual episode:

 

Edited to add the info, for those who would rather not click play:

Aja: 1. Kennedy 2. Trixie

Ben: 1. Kennedy 2. Trixie

Chi Chi: 1. Kennedy 2. Trixie

Milk: 1. Trixie 2. Kennedy

Morgan: 1. Bebe 2. Kennedy

Thorgy: 1. Trixie 2. Shangela

Which gives Kennedy 8 points, Trixie 7, Bebe 2, and Shangela 1 giant shaft.

 

I figured Thorgy was going to be fair when she specifically made sure to tell Shangie she slayed all season. She and Acid Betty feel like queens that would hate your guts till the end of time, but still vote you to win the pageant because fair's fair, even you are a stank ho bitch.

Ben's feel good, 'needs it more' is goddamn irritating, especially as it's backfired spectacularly on both queens she 'saved'. Just because Ben decided she didn't need the validation of the crown doesn't mean she gets to stamp out other hardworking and successful queens from having the chance. 

I don't understand how any of the queens who saw AS2 thought that giving Kennedy another shot would do anything but Roxxxy Andrews' her. Especially the ones hooked into social media more and know how much drama the online fandom causes over things it considers 'unfair'. There was literally no way Ru would ever pick her over Trixie, and they knew that. Giving her one more lip sync wasn't going to fix anything.

It sucks, but big picture wise, I think this is actually the best outcome for Shangela. If she had been top two and beat Trixie, we'd be going on and on about how she won against soft competition and her win was with a big asterix because bendela left. But now it's an outrage, because while bendela quit of her own volition, Shangela was robbed of her chance. And she's beaten Ben 2x at lip syncs prior, so she was a valid front runner. Now Trixie will get all the eyerolls for basically being that last place speed skater that nips in for gold because the front runners fell and tumbled into each other.

Trixie is such a perplexing case for me, because I like her a lot not on the show, but on the show I am like 'girl you're ok, but not great, please sit down.' And she's blind if she thinks Kennedy's rainbow dress this season was worse than the prior one. That dress was FIYAH.

Edited March 17, 2018 by rozen

[Ananayel]

48 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Anyone else catch Ru's face as it fell when Morgan called Kennedy's name? He knew that meant either Shangela or Trixie weren't gonna make it.

Maybe, just maybe, Ru should have thought of that possible outcome before putting such an important decision in the hands of people whose primary criteria would not be either the making of a compelling tv show or the success and expansion of Ru's brand. IJS.

I like all of the final three, but my cold heart cracked a bit seeing how hard Shangela has worked, how far she has come, and how successful she was on this show, only to get just one vote.

[Primetimer]

It's time to process hurt feelings in this EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP!

View the full article

[SammyBeBop]

On 3/15/2018 at 8:50 PM, PeaceLily2 said:

What WAS Milk wearing?  

It took me a bit but when she stood up to vote I was like, "Holy shit, she's a murdered Sharon Tate... Made out of crochet."

[CheetaraThunder]

Big tea Fromm aja on the finale:

• The season was very interesting, very fun. As a viewer though it was "meh".

• She didn't like the ideia of voting for the top 2 at all, it felt like a recipe for disaster.

• The girls voting weren't unfair, what was unfair was the fact they had to vote.

• Dela was literally refusing to vote at first.

• After the Kitty Girls challenge when they were told they would have a part at the finale Aja said she really just wanted to go home already. Which she complained about but they made her stay there for 4 more days against her will.

• People were saying Trixie was the winner since the beginning so she thinks maybe that influenced people's minds.

• Her perspective after filming the show and after watching it has changed significantly.

• Watching it she was very impressed with Shangela. While there when you don't spend that much time with someone you don't see that. By episode 3 she knew the decision was fucked up. But you can't go back in time, if she could she would've just walk out and not voted at all.

• At this point it doesn't matter who wins the title. It's just a title and $100k, that they can easily make. What matters is who the fans support and choose to help their careers thrive.

• There's no need to be mad. Shangela and Trixie's careers will be great regardless. What is fucked up is Kennedy will still get hate.

• She connected to Kennedy because she went through the same thing she did after S9. When she sat there and listened to her talk it broke her heart more than when Shangela didn't win on tv. She didn't vote out of pity though, she believed in her. Shangela didn't win a title, even thought she deserved it, Kennedy has been billeted non stop since S7.

• She doesn't agree with a bunch of the judges decisions during the competition regarding her and other girl's placements anyway. She had to vote for the girls that half the time she wasn't even paying attention to.

• To the people saying she made the wrong decision she says you were not there. You were not in the room, you didn't do the challenges, you didn't see the behind the cameras. What you saw was a cut out version. Everybody there worked hard, everybody could've won. Even she could've won. 

• When someone said that Shangela had the best record she repeated how they often don't agree with the judging at the first place. Not discrediting anyone wins but for example she thinks she should've won Snatch Game (she says they didn't show a bunch of her jokes) and if she had won Snatch Game Shangela would have one less win and the record would be even.

 

Basically, in the finale: Ben refused to vote for the queens and was forced too by producers, and they didn’t want to be heir for the finale and just wanted to go home.

[heckkitty]

16 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I understand why ChiChi would choose Kennedy over Shangela, but not the rest of them.

I don’t even understand this. I know she would pick Kennedy no matter what, but it should have been Shangela after that, not Trixie (& I love Trixie). 

[Cosmic Muffin]

I had forgotten how much I disagreed with the choices for top two and bottom two or three, which might be some justification for overlooking the track records on the show, but mainly, the returning queens shouldn't have had any say in what happened to the final four.

And there isn't going to be a reunion? 

[djlynch]

On 3/16/2018 at 4:18 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm sorry, girls, but this isn't RuPaul's Charity Race.

Meanwhile, the producers seemed to be trying to turn it into Survivor: Glamazon, which the show isn't, either.

Once Ben was gone, Shangela and Trixie were my clear top two (with Shangela ahead overall), but my preference has always been for a sharp sense of humor and a willingness to play with convention over either flawless looks or lip-sync ability, so I remember not being really in love with either Bebe or Kennedy during their previous seasons. 

[WhineandCheez]

Last night (Fri.) I saw Shangela live at Moravian College in Bethlehem Penna. It was a fundraiser for a LGBT Center and also had 2 local Queens.  Anyway people were shouting "You were robbed," and Shangela was soo gracious, she even gave some long motivational speeches to the students. I didnt even know the finale had aired, I was shocked! (they always do a clip show first, I guess not for the Allstars?)So I'm thinking--if Shangie didn't get chosen because she's already so successful, than Trixie is just as successful. So wtf is that logic?

edited to add;  Trixie was wearing the ugliest  runway dress in Drag Race history, IMHO

Edited March 17, 2018 by WhineandCheez

[2727]

2 hours ago, djlynch said:

Once Ben was gone, Shangela and Trixie were my clear top two (with Shangela ahead overall) ...

Meanwhile, I'm still holding a grudge about Aja. She and Shangie would have been my dream final two (minus Ben).

This whole season was rotten and the finale had me sniffing the air to see what died. I actually feel the worst for Trixie, for whom winning has -- through no fault of her own -- become a burden and PR clusterfuck.

[annewithaneee]

48 minutes ago, 2727 said:

Meanwhile, I'm still holding a grudge about Aja. She and Shangie would have been my dream final two (minus Ben).

This whole season was rotten and the finale had me sniffing the air to see what died. I actually feel the worst for Trixie, for whom winning has -- through no fault of her own -- become a burden and PR clusterfuck.

Yeah, I'm also sad about Aja -- she might be the biggest "real winner" of them all, as I think she had the most ground to cover in terms of growth and winning people over, and she really pulled it off.

The more I think about it, the more I think basically nobody "deserved" the win after Dela left. Because the vast majority of the challenges were stupid and gave the queens little opportunity to have a transcendent moment. If I'm judging by the challenges where the queens were able to spring themselves free from a horribly-written templated skit or group lip sync or whatever, the three most entertaining episodes that gave the queens a chance to actually create a character/moment were: talent show, Snatch Game, and the Bitchelor (and the Bitchelor only kinda, because of the roles being assigned and there being some unevenness in what was clearly in the queen's wheelhouse, and/or what made little sense for the parody). And from those three challenges, I think the top four performed:

• Talent: Shangela and Kennedy were great, Trixie was good, I don't even remember what Bebe did.
• Snatch Game: I'd put Shangie and Bebe at a tie for me -- Shangie was consistently goodish but with nothing super memorable, Bebe had a funny opener and then nothing much, and if it hadn't been such an awful Snatch Game I think they both would have been in the middle/safe. Kennedy was bad, Trixie was painful.
• Bitchelor: Kennedy was fantastic. Trixie was hampered by a terrible scene partner but even aside from Milk some of her jokes felt forced, but many landed. Bebe had a funny premise and brought a unique take to her assignment, but it was one-note and not really funny past the limo arrival. Shangela had a bad scene partner and a bad role assigned to her but she didn't really make any effort to create a story and her jokes were bad -- nothing came close to landing imo.

So now that I think through it, on performance and casting aside all the stuff about pity votes and likeability, it was probably Trixie that took Shangela's spot, not Kennedy. Trixie for me was overall third and Bebe fourth. However, I don't think Ru would have agreed with me and the final two would've probably been Trixie and Shangela. But on many levels Ru and the show fucked it all up, so it doesn't matter. Based on the above, I'm good with Kennedy's finish as runner-up, but not okay with Trixie winning. And I'm still not a Shangela fan, she's not my cup of tea, but she got undeniably fucked over. I hope Kennedy does get a long-term boost from this instead of more shit from the fandom, because I think she would have been a perfectly fine performance-based vote, too, but as the one-pointer to a two-point Shangela.

[Ruby Gillis]

13 hours ago, CheetaraThunder said:

Big tea Fromm aja on the finale:

• The season was very interesting, very fun. As a viewer though it was "meh".

• She didn't like the ideia of voting for the top 2 at all, it felt like a recipe for disaster.

• The girls voting weren't unfair, what was unfair was the fact they had to vote.

• Dela was literally refusing to vote at first.

• After the Kitty Girls challenge when they were told they would have a part at the finale Aja said she really just wanted to go home already. Which she complained about but they made her stay there for 4 more days against her will.

• People were saying Trixie was the winner since the beginning so she thinks maybe that influenced people's minds.

• Her perspective after filming the show and after watching it has changed significantly.

• Watching it she was very impressed with Shangela. While there when you don't spend that much time with someone you don't see that. By episode 3 she knew the decision was fucked up. But you can't go back in time, if she could she would've just walk out and not voted at all.

thanks so much for the info!  I kind of love that Ben was screwing over the show both in his exit and his vote (though I think it was all subconscious).

Did Aja say if they knew how each other voted?  Did people assume that others would vote for Shangela and so they didn't have to?

[BloggerAloud]

16 hours ago, rozen said:

I figured Thorgy was going to be fair when she specifically made sure to tell Shangie she slayed all season.

As soon as Thorgy was like "Ok, work bitch" when Shangela came out on the runway, I figured she was at least open to voting for Shangela.

[goodbyeglittergirl]

Shangela's runway gown was my favorite look of the whole season from anyone. It was stunning. She looked amazing. Given her full season performance, she was robbed. However, I think she will still be AOK. But I did think her feelings were hurt and I can't blame her. 

I like Trixie. I am going to see her soon. I've seen her before. But I don't think she deserved this win. 

On the Kennedy situation. I've seen Kennedy twice, the first time as part of one of those multi-girl tours. I paid extra for meet-and-greet at that show, but there were probably 12 girls and only an hour to meet and greet, so you had to spend your time wisely.

My top 2 people I was dying to meet were Latrice and Jujubee. Once I finished their lines (both so sweet,) I went to see Acid Betty, Trixie, and Milk (MUCH nicer than you might assume given this season.) I still had about 10m left in meet and greet time, so I looked around to see who else I might want to see...Kennedy was there, as was Mimi Imfurst. (There were a couple of other girls there, too, but I'm drawing a blank.)

Anyway - neither Kennedy nor Mimi had a line, but both seemed SO irritated and unhappy to be there that I did not feel comfortable going over there to talk to them. They both were just throwing off the WORST attitude. And I will say, having seen Kennedy twice now (several years apart) that in my opinion, her act is the same stuff over and over. I am not a huge fan of that. I thought she was super funny this season - I enjoyed her much more than her past season - but I still didn't think she deserved a top spot.

[violet and green]

17 hours ago, CheetaraThunder said:

• When someone said that Shangela had the best record she repeated how they often don't agree with the judging at the first place. Not discrediting anyone wins but for example she thinks she should've won Snatch Game (she says they didn't show a bunch of her jokes) and if she had won Snatch Game Shangela would have one less win and the record would be even.

Bitch can't count!

Shangela won three times.  Aja was only in the top two once, which some people are counting as winning a challenge (but which Ben actually won). Every time Shangela was in the top two she won - one win was shared with Ben. Or to put it another way, Aja went home with zero 'tips' and Shange took home $25,000 - if they ever gave it to her.

[kieyra]

Am I really the only one who never thought of Shangela as a real contestant? She was obviously a producer plant and a shit-stirrer in her second season, obviously a plant and driving most of the storylines here. All of the All Stars seasons have felt set up to achieve a certain end, even more so than the normal seasons. I don't know, I just hate it when the show makes it so obvious that it's fake reality. The lack of real judging is also so stupid. And apparently they misjudged what the fans wanted for AS3 (Trixie).

The last time I felt real tension about the winner was season 6.

[film noire]

5 hours ago, kieyra said:

Am I really the only one who never thought of Shangela as a real contestant?

I have no doubt Shangela came to win. (And I still can't get over Thorgy -- the Queen of Bitter -- being the only one with integrity in that pack of jealous, sour-souled assholes.)

 Shangela's tweet to the fan who posted the clip below: "Omg! I performed this right after the finale at @MickysWeHo. So much love in the room... thank y’all. Def made me feel better And now...moving onward and upward."

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by film noire

[Stardancer Supreme]

On 3/16/2018 at 6:23 PM, Couver said:

Let me sit with you. I expected it though because Kennedy is a much better dancer than Trixie. I think the judges may have dinged Kennedy for not facing them and showing she knew the lyrics as much. But her contemporary style fit the angst of the song well.

Don't forget that Kennedy also had no shoes on. She would have gotten dinged on the bare feet.

[ClareWalks]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion but I thought Trixie won that lipsynch fair and square. Kennedy was barefoot which is never advisable on this show, and she gave the exact same emotion/face that she did in an earlier lipsynch that season. Trixie seemed to connect more with the lyrics. Although that song was a really odd choice. Finale LSFYL songs should be a bit more upbeat, instead of feeling almost like a damn funeral.

[Glaadrial]

On 3/16/2018 at 8:33 AM, Couver said:

I wonder what would have happened if they included this in AS2. My guess is Alaska would not have made that final 2. So again it seems like the show pulls some very obvious strings to get their winner.

I'm not convinced that Ru would have been against Shangela winning. Ru has always been very supportive of Shangela, beyond just bringing her back for S3. To me, it seems like she's a particular favorite of the producers. It doesn't make sense to me that this was a conspiracy by the producers to keep her from winning.

Logo is re-running previous seasons and I happened upon the episode in S3 where they had a cake challenge that involved sewing. During the workroom chat with Shangela, Ru specifically asked if any of the other girls were helping her through the challenge and Shangela replied that she understood that this is a competition and she didn't expect to receive help (it was a particularly raw emotional response from Shangela; a very poignant moment). Ru pointed out that Shangela had been helpful to other contestants in previous challenges and she should consider asking for help. This was the nasty Heathers vs. Boogers season and Manilla offered up a dismissive talking head about Shangela's exchange with Ru.

I hadn't watched previous episodes, and I switched channels after the scene, but at that moment, it seemed clear that Shangela may not be respected as anything more than a punchline by anyone outside the House of Edwards. Interestingly, it also seems like Alyssa and LaGanga are also treated as punchlines despite their respective obvious talent.

Shangela getting 1 point when even Bebe was able to manage 2, smells more like cliquish behavior than producer manipulation to me. 

For me, based on what I've seen on the show: Bendela>Shangela>Trixie>Bebe>Kennedy. Ben eliminated himself; nobody (except the fans) likes Shangela; Bebe had won before and wasn't particularly friendly; that leaves Kennedy vs Trixie, and in that battle it's a no brainer. I generally liked the show and I really liked Ben, Shangela, and Trixie, so, I'm okay with the outcome.

[Kaboom 2.0]

I like Trixie, glad she won but this was Ben's to lose and I'm still disappointed that Ben just walked away. 

Milk's dangling thread eyelashes and lipstick annoyed me to no end, I kept wanting to reach thru the screen and snip them off. 

[Couver]

Glaadrial

I agree Ru is very fond of Shangela it's obvious. The cynic in me sees Trixie's win as more of a WOW than Ru manipulation. Shangela's post show success has largely been very separate from WOW. Trixie is a WOW darling and her show with Katya got it start on WOW. So my feeling is they've had a say all season.

I don't mean to say this to invalidate Trixie's win. I actually felt this was a strong final 4. I just think Shangela did better overall and and is larger than drag race in a way that makes her deserving of the HOF.

[DisneyBoy]

At Trixie's finale viewing party at Roscoe's, available to watch on YT, she stated that the producer's didn't tell Ru about Ben's self-elimination. She also said Katya frantically made her purple sequin outfit at the last minute (the one seen in Kitty Girl) and when an audience member asked about the rumors that one queen had had a breakdown during filming, she dismissed it entirely as untrue.

[DisneyBoy]

Quote

Anyway - neither Kennedy nor Mimi had a line, but both seemed SO irritated and unhappy to be there that I did not feel comfortable going over there to talk to them. They both were just throwing off the WORST attitude.

Meet and greets/comic convention booths can be so depressing. There really are people who spend the entire time watching others receive compliments from fans...while they count the minutes. Having a bad attitude doesn't help but all this to say, some people in those situations just feel like they're being publicly reminded of how little they really matter. It's humbling. I try to chat with the folks who don't have anyone at their booth when I can. Spread the love! It's hard to sit there looking happy when everyone walks past you.

[OnceSane]

I laughed when Shangela didn't even make top two.  She should have, totally deserved to make top two and win (once Ben left)…yet I still laughed.  I'm petty.

[Blakeston]

On 3/16/2018 at 12:15 AM, annewithaneee said:

I could get in the weeds about how my statement about black queens was countered with generalizations about all non-white queens, but whatever. It factor is subjective. Kennedy has proven that she can excel at improv, acting, and dancing across her two seasons. What is “one note” on her runway presentation is an aesthetic/brand for Trixie. What is dour and whiny on her made some fans worship Pearl. Sometimes a cigar is a dog whistle.

It sucks that we live in an era when anyone who's a member of a minority group will be subjected to crazy bigoted online rants if they do anything that angers TV fans.

But I don't think Trixie is the best example to be used here of Kennedy being held to an unfair standard. Trixie's look is an instantly recognizable, extremely memorable brand. Kennedy's look isn't a brand - it's just a standard Texas pageant look. Sometimes she looks polished, and sometimes she looks blah.

Also, Trixie is Native American. So many people I know use her as an example of a privileged white person, and I'm not sure where that comes from. She's a racial minority, and her background is anything but privileged.

In the end, Kennedy made it a whole lot further in this season than she deserved to. She has a lot of talent, but she's also wildly inconsistent. I don't see her as a top-tier queen the way I think of Bendela, Bob the Drag Queen, Bianca, etc. I don't think many people would see her that way even if she was white. If she's bitter that people don't see her as an A-list queen, she should work on her consistency.

[film noire]

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Also, Trixie is Native American. So many people I know use her as an example of a privileged white person, and I'm not sure where that comes from. 

Probably comes from Trixie saying she knows she presents as white, and thus never claims the difficulties POC experience.

At most, she calls herself "hafl white" (not half NA) as here, when talking about the racial implications of her winning:

"The Top 4 was three people of color and I’m only, like, half white. Me and Kennedy were the two people in the room that had the least power. We didn’t pull lipsticks."

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trixie-mattel-rupaul-drag-race-all-stars-season-3_us_5aabeec9e4b0337adf8372c9

[annewithaneee]

10 hours ago, Blakeston said:

On 3/16/2018 at 12:15 AM, annewithaneee said:

I could get in the weeds about how my statement about black queens was countered with generalizations about all non-white queens, but whatever. It factor is subjective. Kennedy has proven that she can excel at improv, acting, and dancing across her two seasons. What is “one note” on her runway presentation is an aesthetic/brand for Trixie. What is dour and whiny on her made some fans worship Pearl. Sometimes a cigar is a dog whistle.

It sucks that we live in an era when anyone who's a member of a minority group will be subjected to crazy bigoted online rants if they do anything that angers TV fans.

But I don't think Trixie is the best example to be used here of Kennedy being held to an unfair standard. Trixie's look is an instantly recognizable, extremely memorable brand. Kennedy's look isn't a brand - it's just a standard Texas pageant look. Sometimes she looks polished, and sometimes she looks blah.

That's a good point. I'm aware that Trixie's part Native American, and should have considered that in the comparison -- I was trying to think of non-black queens from this season that have a very consistent look. Sasha might be more apt? I'm not sure she ever changed her lipstick shade, and her silhouettes were the same every single time. 

It's tough. I think it's good to have discussions about this stuff, which there's been a lot of in this thread, rather than discounting one way of interpreting things as absurd. 

I mostly just get frustrated with Kennedy's looks and talent being discounted as "one-note". It's a criticism that seems reserved for pageant girls and old school drag, and I don't see why that has to be so sneered at. Especially as the seasons have moved on, most queens hew to one style, silhouette, and even something as specific as basically a makeup template where maybe the eyeshadow color will change a bit but that's it. There should be a place for everybody, and I think it's worth examining where criticism might be coming from. 

I'm far from a Kennedy stan, but I'm struggling to come up with any other pageant queen who has shown as much versatility as she has. The fact that she's done well in at least three comedy challenges (Bitchelor, 7th season Snatch Game, and I believe she did pretty well in the 7th season John Waters as well) really speaks well of her. Having off-the-cuff wit and humor is really difficult even for a comedy queen, and she has outperformed a few of them at their own game. Alyssa certainly can't claim that. 

[Glaadrial]

2 hours ago, annewithaneee said:

I mostly just get frustrated with Kennedy's looks and talent being discounted as "one-note". It's a criticism that seems reserved for pageant girls and old school drag, and I don't see why that has to be so sneered at. Especially as the seasons have moved on, most queens hew to one style, silhouette, and even something as specific as basically a makeup template where maybe the eyeshadow color will change a bit but that's it. There should be a place for everybody, and I think it's worth examining where criticism might be coming from. 

It's easier to understand when one considers that this is not a pageant. There are other venues to do well as a pageant queen, namely pageants. Raja's win changed the game, if not forever, then at least since season 3. If Sharon, for example, had shown up at a pageant she would have been read for filth, and that's even if she could have managed to work her way through the pageant system to even get to a national platform. Even PhiPhi managed growth that has extended her relevance post RDR.

A couple of other pageant queen standouts that immediately come to mind are Alyssa Edwards (who's just so quirky that she reads as unique) and, most recently, Trinity Taylor, have managed to claim their stake in the RDR lore. Each has an overwhelming amount of Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve, and Talent to spare as does Trixie.

Kennedy's talent is undeniable, I especially enjoy what she brings to the stage when she's on because I first encountered drag in a small club in Texas while coming of age in the mid 80's so I get her and what she brings to the stage. She does lack in the other categories, though, and that's a deficit that can't be overcome without work. Moreover, it also appears that she lacks any level of self-awareness. For her to think that getting into the RDRHoF is a free ride to adoration from the fans...well, I think she would have been disappointed had she won. Ironically, judging from the hate that Trixie is getting (I'm assuming it's okay to hate on her because she's half-white, right?), by losing, Kennedy may have actually picked up some care-bear fans to darken her cubicle at future meet and greets. So in that way she really is a winner.

[Corgi-ears]

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I laughed when Shangela didn't even make top two.  She should have, totally deserved to make top two and win (once Ben left)…yet I still laughed.  I'm petty.

 

I do think Shangela was robbed by the ru-venge twist, but I do find it funny how all season Shangela was Game-of-Thrones-alliance-this, Game-of-Thrones-alliance-that, and when it was time for "alliances" to count, one returning queen voted for her for second place. She should go on Survivor -- she's bound to come in, oh, 12th.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP!

Is This The RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars Finale We Wanted?

It's time to process hurt feelings in this EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP!

[JayD83]

Goodbye RU boo. After buying every last one of his albums and supporting the show since DAY DAMN ONE, I'm now a "thirsty ass queen who likes to complain", huh?  Yeah I WOULD rather watch Matlock reruns.  What a bitch. 

https://www.queerty.com/rupaul-trixie-mattel-react-backlash-stars-voting-20180321

Edited March 21, 2018 by JayD83

[After7Only]

On 3/16/2018 at 3:20 PM, BarneySays said:

I hear what you are saying, but I have not compared black queens to white cohorts.  I have compared the respective differences in responses among black queens.  It is there that the argument collapses.  Of course, there are bigots and I would not be surprised that kennedy gets some of that directed at her.  And that is wrong.  But not having people stand in line to meet her is not bigotry.  And I assume that if anyone within a venue acted in an unacceptable (bigoted) manner, that would be dealt with.  It should be.  I don't do social media and I think it provides a very skewed vision of the world.  A few thousand rabid haters on the internet do not reflect fans of the show or of drag.  It is unwise to attempt to draw grand observations from a skewed sample set.  Perhaps the solution to this is for decent people to stay off social media?

And let's not forget whose show it is.

That’s kinda like saying racism no longer exists because Barack Obama was elected President.   There is not a 1:1 correlation.    Rupaul’s success does not negate bigotry in the drag community.   People have already provided several well researched and documented examples that it exists.   People can love the show and still have an irrational raced based hatred of some Black queens.   It’s  counter intuitive, but so is racism.

I’m sure some drag historians can correct me if I’m wrong, but Black queens were instrumental in making drag popular and mainstream.  A lot of current drag culture and slang is appropriated from Black culture.  I’m sure some Black queens find this to be an additional level of frustration in light of the racial negativity the get from a small but significant part of the drag community.  This may be part of the chip on the shoulder attitude some perceive them to have.   

 

And to to get on topic, Shangela was robbed!  

Edited March 25, 2018 by After7Only