S19.E13: The Undiscovered Country

[kilda]

7 hours ago, pinguina said:

Plus, I'm sorry - I just can't picture an ADA going to the hospital where a mom is contemplating pulling the plug on her baby.  Then when she can't do it, he steps in.

this.  The whole thing was just freaking bizarre.  My wife was like "What is he even doing at the hospital?  WTF?"  As a doctor I've seen a few cases where I felt strongly the family should make a different decision for their loved one.  I never pulled the plug on anyone!  It's called professionalism, letting next of kin make decisions, respect for the rule of law, little things like that.  It would have made sense if the baby was his family member or something but for him to step in and do it in this situation was just ridiculous.  How could he even think that was his business or his place?

it just seemed like in trying to give him a big dramatic exit, they got downright silly.

[kilda]

7 hours ago, RafaelBarbas said:

This means that for the rest of his life, the father is going to have so, so much guilt. “If I was there, would that man have murdered my child?”

Barba not only took away the father’s choice on his child’s life, he not only went against his wishes, he took away the father’s chance to say goodbye to his child and get closure. He took away the father’s chance to hold his son’s hand as he died.

Just… holy shit, you guys. I love Barba. But in this case… he honestly deserve to go to jail for what he did.

that's what I so very much hate about this plot.  They did a good job of showing it was a difficult wrenching situation with no easy answers.  You could see that both parents were coming from a place of love and wanting to do the right thing.  You know who gets a vote in such situation?  First off, the parents.  If they can't agree, then the hospital ethics committee and maybe a judge.  You know who doesn't get a vote?  Some random ADA.  How dare he make such a unilateral decision for someone else's child.

[misstwpherecool]

12 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Am I the only one from the Law and Order family that cares that Ben Stone is dead? I did not care about the episode, have not watched more than a few in 3 years, but came back for Jack. Olivia is a joke.  Never liked Barba or the way the actor portrayed him.  

I was gonna say. I've been wondering/waiting for years when Wolfe would kill Stone off. Ben Stone/Michael Moriairty was the adult version of Jack McCoy. I remember seeing Moriarty left the show under a cloud in real time and researched years later in the day and age of the internet.  And yes many of these characters/actors seem to leave under less than happy circumstances. Olivia/Marisa looked tired and needs to give up a young girl hair style because it's highlights a tired face. Snow-shot in December? If someone knows the L&O or lore it was fitting that a by the book DA(Stone) takes Barba's place. I'm not feeling it with the DA nor did I get it on L&O Chicago.

If they were going to do an episode like this they should've shown Barba getting arrested, booked along with pretrial motions. That was a crime and he should've been treated like a criminal suspect. I'm surprise with some of the show's politics they didn't show a law enforcement official being treated like a criminal. And they did the samething on L&O LA making it seem like a person can practice law anywhere. They need a license in each state unless a federal prosecutor if not mistaken. Also it seems like Blue Bloods uses L&O actors alot but the tables were turned with the commissioners assistant playing a victim/poi.

Ben Stone-rip. Here's an old article from the time of Moriarity 'left' the show and Waterson/McCoy took over.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/25/arts/a-new-face-at-law-and-order-any-objections.html

[Xeliou66]

This episode should’ve been a 2 parter. Eliminate the shitty heavy handed Info Wars episode and make this a 2 parter. We could’ve had a much more in depth exploration of the case, of the parents and their feelings, especially the father, and what exactly made Barba pull the plug on Drew. We could’ve gotten more of a reaction from everyone after Barba did it, instead of just Olivia’s terrible “Rafa. You killed a baby”, we could’ve seen McCoy chew him out for his reckless and stupid behavior and place him on leave, we could see Barba cuffed and arrested, processed and arraigned, maybe by one of the recurring judges who is shocked to see Barba as the defendant, we could’ve heard who McCoy appointed to be the prosecutor temporarily on SVU cases (O’Dwyer perhaps) until Barba’s mess got sorted out, we could’ve seen Barba and Dworkin preparing for trial with maybe Carisi offering some legal advice, and Barba facing the possibility of prison time, Stone offering a deal and Barba-Dworkin turning it down, more extensive testimony at the trial with medical experts and the like testifying, closing arguments from Dworkin and Stone, and finally Barba saying goodbye to the entire SVU squad and not just Olivia. This should’ve been a 2 parter and Info Wars never should’ve aired. 

I just really hate how Barba’s character was ruined, it started with him being turned into Benson’s bitch who did everything to please her, then he started making stupid and reckless decisions the last few episodes, culminating in committing career suicide in this one. 

And I can’t get over how Benson was so unprofessional in this episode, her refusing to shake Stone’s hand and then telling him “I hope you suck” was beyond inappropriate for the leader of a detective squad. She made a complete fool of a herself right in front of the Manhattan DA no less, both McCoy and Stone were being very friendly to Benson and she responded by being a complete bitch. And then her rant outside the courthouse at Stone was laughable as well, calling Stone unreasonable when she’s the one ranting and foaming at the mouth while Stone remained completely calm! If you want to see unreasonable, Benson, look in the mirror you hypocritical bitch! 

Benson’s relationship with Barba was so unprofessional and weird, it completely ruined Barba, his objectivity and reason went on the window cause of St Olivia and it made Benson look worse than ever. I’m glad we don’t have to see Barson anymore and I will hopefully never have to hear Benson call Barba “Rafa” ever again, that pet nickname made me sick. I honestly thought Benson and Barba might be about to kiss and hook up at the end of the episode, thankfully it didn’t happen, the scene was nauseating enough as it was, but if they had become romantically involved I would’ve literally thrown up right there in my living room.

[TV Diva Queen]

When McCoy was giving his eulogy, he mentioned using exculpatory evidence (I think that's what he said) and how he went to Ben's cubicle to seek advice.  Could that have happened?  If I;m thinking of the right episode it was when Jack's former lover who also worked in the DA's office used something she wasn't supposed to use, but Jack was the prosecutor so he got in trouble.  I realize that that happened in the past and off camera, but I would have assumed that Ben was the Ex-ADA and would not be in a cube. 

[MaryHedwig]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Forget the name, but Allison Janney played the head of a baby food company. Apparently, her partner got money for the company through illegal means. I believe it was the Russian mob. Janney's character was honest and had no idea, but Ben made her testify about her partner or he would put her in jail for contempt or something.

She did...and we learned at the end that when she was moving or leaving town (been a while since I saw the episode), she was killed.

That's when Ben Stone had a final scene with Adam Schiff and resigned.

My memory was that Stone promised her protective custody and she was killed while being transported to protective custody. The story stayed with me. Stone really pushed a decent woman to do something that she knew would kill her, and it did.  It made sense that it destroyed Stone's love for the prosecution game just like Barba's love was (more slowly) destroyed.  By the way, Alison Janey did a fantastic job. One of the few times on L&O that the most famous guest star was not the killer.

Really, the father of the baby gets probation after, binding and confining his teenage babysitter? That girl with have emotional scars for life.

[HunterHunted]

10 hours ago, Corvino said:

Someone last week complained that if Jack McCoy came back he'd be all leftist and progressive, and that showed sometimes on the Mothership, but I remember (with displeasure) the episode where he convicted a sympathetic defendant who'd been on the run for decades after being peripherally involved in a Weatherman-type murder, and his last line was to contemptuously remark that when her prison term was up "maybe the Sixties will be over by then." IMHO, opinions and reactions by regulars on this show are very largely situational, for the convenience of the story.

McCoy was very liberal and progressive in his politics. And the episode you're talking about is White Rabbit. I interpreted McCoy's final comment about the 60s finally being over to refer to the defendant's former compatriots who refused to narc on her because of "the cause." The only way McCoy broke the impasse was because he showed that the defendant was a registered Republican for 20 years and donating to conservative causes while she was in hiding. Opinions did sometimes change for story convenience, but the Mothership was fairly consistent in its characterizations. The two things that tempered McCoy's progressive activist streak is becoming DA and getting Mike Cutter as Executive ADA. Cutter is McCoy's karma. He's just as stubborn, impulsive, and prone to wild legal strategies as McCoy.

As for the episode, I thought this was a particularly ignominious exit for Barba. However after that Grand Jury to indict every employee of the airline for grand larceny of dignity, I don't think what he did tonight is wildly out of character. I'm sure in a couple of years, we'll be able to look back and see that their shitty characterization of Barba over 2 or 3 seasons can be viewed as an arc about Barba slowly spinning out of control.

[slowpoked]

God, even during Barba's send-off, it's still all about Olivia! Let the man have his day in the sun even for the last few minutes. Instead, they still have to make Barba's last words be never-ending praise gospels about Benson. Jeez. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

McCoy was very liberal and progressive in his politics. And the episode you're talking about is White Rabbit. I interpreted McCoy's final comment about the 60s finally being over to refer to the defendant's former compatriots who refused to narc on her because of "the cause." The only way McCoy broke the impasse was because he showed that the defendant was a registered Republican for 20 years and donating to conservative causes while she was in hiding. Opinions did sometimes change for story convenience, but the Mothership was fairly consistent in its characterizations. The two things that tempered McCoy's progressive activist streak is becoming DA and getting Mike Cutter as Executive ADA. Cutter is McCoy's karma. He's just as stubborn, impulsive, and prone to wild legal strategies as McCoy.

Yes, I recall an episode called Ramparts that revolved around the police going undercover to spy on "radicals" during the 60s, and Abbie just does not get it.  Jack is horrified by the police behavior, and basically unleashes his fury on Abbie over her ignorance.     

[balmz]

one thought on this was barba freeing drew was sorta meant to be a metaphor, now barba is free from olivia finally, also it would have been better if during his speech, he mentioned the whole squad not just olivia for opening his eyes, like that's a pretty big screw you to everyone else

[CaliCheeseSucks]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And I can’t get over how Benson was so unprofessional in this episode, her refusing to shake Stone’s hand and then telling him “I hope you suck” was beyond inappropriate for the leader of a detective squad. She made a complete fool of a herself right in front of the Manhattan DA no less, both McCoy and Stone were being very friendly to Benson and she responded by being a complete bitch. And then her rant outside the courthouse at Stone was laughable as well, calling Stone unreasonable when she’s the one ranting and foaming at the mouth while Stone remained completely calm! If you want to see unreasonable, Benson, look in the mirror you hypocritical bitch! 

Benson’s relationship with Barba was so unprofessional and weird, it completely ruined Barba, his objectivity and reason went on the window cause of St Olivia and it made Benson look worse than ever. I’m glad we don’t have to see Barson anymore and I will hopefully never have to hear Benson call Barba “Rafa” ever again, that pet nickname made me sick. I honestly thought Benson and Barba might be about to kiss and hook up at the end of the episode, thankfully it didn’t happen, the scene was nauseating enough as it was, but if they had become romantically involved I would’ve literally thrown up right there in my living room.

I honestly think Mariska operates under the delusion that enough Benson theatrics (dramatics) will give her another shot at an Emmy. Her narcissism has turned Benson into a complete joke. The only reason I stay plugged in to recaps and forums about the show is really just to giggle at the plot twists done in service of making Benson the center of everything. 

At least when the Mothership promoted McCoy to Manhattan DA, he actually was, you know acting like the DA and Cutter was doing the legwork as appropriate to the EADA. Hargitay/Benson just cannot let go of this bizarre notion that Olivia Benson IS the special victims unit, from crime scene grunt work to tussling with DAs and EADAs. It's ridiculous. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, MaryHedwig said:

My memory was that Stone promised her protective custody and she was killed while being transported to protective custody

Yes, you're right! That was a great episode.

[TimetoShine]

Yea, I’m skipping this episode. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

14 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

I didn't like this episode for a number of reasons but I particularly resent this overaged and creatively degenerated show reaching back to the roots of the franchise - the original Law & Order - employing the iconic characters of Ben Stone and Jack McCoy to embellish the plot of Rafael Barba's exit episode. I will always love Sam Waterston, I didn't like the feeling I got watching him in this episode. And yes, I too hated what they did to the character of Rafael Barba.

Damn. That's horrible. I hate when any kind of show does that. Uses old characters to embellish a bad or weak plot.

As for Jack, it's nice seeing him again.

But screw the show people for assassinating the character of Rafael Barba.

Good bye and good riddance to Law and Order SVU. I hope it gets cancelled for good.

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse than when Goren got character assassinated or when the same happened to Stabler... the show manages to do the same yet again.

Edited February 8, 2018 by AntiBeeSpray

[Joimiaroxeu]

Ditto the comments upthread, I think for Barba to take it upon himself to end that baby's life was an absurd plot device and this episode was a poor sendoff for Raúl Esparza.

Stone is a tall one. Maybe he'll be Benson's next boyfriend. ?

Wonder if the actress who plays Amanda is pregnant again? She's got that full, puffy face like she had before.

Quote

But this is just as bad as Elizabeth Rohm's exit.

Never thought it could happen but yep. One wonders what kind of booze and  drugs cocktails are being consumed when episodes like this one are written. I really hope Ice-T sticks it out until the end because I shudder to think how they'd write him off the show.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Joimiaroxeu

[candall]

14 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

Did Liv honestly say "Put the law aside for a minute," to an ADA prosecuting Barba? Um...

Why, yes, yes she did.  She also offered some arguments along the lines of:  "Look into his eyes! [Because that's how you can tell he's a good person even though you've never met him."]  And:  "He was doing what he thought was right!"

 

5 hours ago, kilda said:

this.  The whole thing was just freaking bizarre.  My wife was like "What is he even doing at the hospital?  WTF?"  As a doctor I've seen a few cases where I felt strongly the family should make a different decision for their loved one.  I never pulled the plug on anyone!  It's called professionalism, letting next of kin make decisions, respect for the rule of law, little things like that.  It would have made sense if the baby was his family member or something but for him to step in and do it in this situation was just ridiculous.  How could he even think that was his business or his place?

it just seemed like in trying to give him a big dramatic exit, they got downright silly.

I think Barba's explanation was:  "I forgot about the courtroom."  Mmmm, okay.  You saw a baby in need of unplugging and "the law" flew right out of your head there for a minute--is that your position?

 

Who the hell is responsible for this shite?????  I'm kind of surprised the actors didn't balk at spewing out these lines that reversed course on five million years of character development.

 

Not to mention, a child was kidnapped in NYC and it wasn't Noah Benson.

[the-grey-lady]

Oh my gaaaawd, that speech from Barba about how Olivia "gave him" shades of gray and "opened his heart" and all that BS. I can't believe that dreck is the last we get of Barba. How did RE get through that scene without laughing?

3 minutes ago, candall said:

Why, yes, yes she did.  She also offered some arguments along the lines of:  "Look into his eyes! [Because that's how you can tell he's a good person even though you've never met him."]  And:  "He was doing what he thought was right!"

THIS. Such utter drivel. Like the prosecutor was gonna be all, "Oh, he's a good person! And you're sure of it! Well, that changes everything!"

[skittl3862]

7 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Another thing I didn't like about the episode was the fact they brought abortion into the case. There was a lot going on already and then all of a sudden, hey, turns out the mother didn't abort when she knew there was a chance of the baby having that and the father did. Life and people are complicated, situations like that probably do happen but this was a jam packed episode and bringing that up on top of everything was SVU once again wanting to bring up too many topics to really give them proper attention. It felt like a cheap way to dirty up the father (for lack of a better word) so any full on right-to-life people wouldn't see him as a total saint. Oh look, he wanted an abortion first! The mom feels really guilty she "chose life" and now caused pain. It wasn't needed at all.

 

The whole court argument was illogical, as are all the others of late.

When Stone was examining the mother, he said "The doctor told you your baby would have this disease and you didn't want an abortion, and now want to abort it 10 months late!" or whatever. That's not what she said had happened at all. She told Barba the doctor said there was a CHANCE the baby would have the disease, and she chose to risk it. A chance is not "Your doctor told you that 100% certainty that your baby would be braindead in 24/7 pain and dependent on machines." She didn't reframe his accusation, despite us as the audience just hearing the real story 10 minutes previous, and just took it.

Then Stone equates pulling the plug on a braindead child as totally the same as murdering a functional child with Down Syndrome or a sore throat (?!?) and no one called him out. Was he purposefully trying to blow the case for Barba's sake? If this is him trying to be good, how on earth does this prove to the NY DA's office that he's good enough to move to Chicago to NY?

 

Quote

How did RE get through that scene without laughing?

Probably imagining all the income he was walking away from because he couldn't take this garbage anymore.

Edited February 8, 2018 by skittl3862

[ChristiKRN]

Just some random thoughts about the episode:

The best part of the episode was obviously seeing Jack McCoy again; I enjoyed the interactions with Barba and Peter Stone.  I didn't watch Chicago Justice, but saw Stone once or twice on Chicago PD.  Hopefully, he will be able to hold his own against Benson's whims.  He is already going to be public enemy #1 with her because he prosecuted Barba despite her telling him not to; how dare he not obey her command? 

It was very unrealistic to have a teenager be a babysitter for a baby that ill. Most people would have a private duty LPN or RN to handle his complex medical needs and impending complications.

Withdrawing bipap or vent support without IV sedation and/or pain medication is inhumane.  Just a technicality but an important one if you are making a case about letting someone die peacefully. 

The continued deference to Benson just blows my mind.  Both Carisi and Rollins  deferred to her during the initial contact with the baby's mother and then during the hostage situation, respectively.  It was as if to say that everything is going to be OK- Lt. Benson is here. 

They have to rein in Rollins' character.  First, she's yelling at the baby's mother about wanting to kill her child; "Sanctimommy" strikes again. Then, her next comment is literally about the right to die. 

I thought the actress who played the mom was excellent in conveying her anguish.  

I kept expecting to hear Bette Midler's Wind Beneath My Wings to start playing in the background during the final scene.

On a high note: at least Barba and Benson didn't hook up.  

[SuzieQ]

8 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

I laughed with relief at that point. At least the final scene wasn't in her bed or something. :) :) :) 

That would have moved me from retching to full projectile vomit.  

[jrlr]

2 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

Oh my gaaaawd, that speech from Barba about how Olivia "gave him" shades of gray and "opened his heart" and all that BS. I can't believe that dreck is the last we get of Barba. How did RE get through that scene without laughing?

 

Yes!  I guess for some unfathomable reason,someone decided Barba should exit the show babbling like some idiot on acid.  I kept waiting to hear "because of you, Olivia, I see dancing unicorns and sparkly rainbows, I hear musical birthday cards singing to me, and bounding across fields of personalized fluffy clouds, here's my dog Fido who I know died when I was six even though my parents told me he went to live on a farm."  God God, WHAT THE HELL got into the writers?

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Really, the father of the baby gets probation after, binding and confining his teenage babysitter? That girl with have emotional scars for life.

Did this episode have each scene written by a different writer with no one ever reading the whole thing?

 

1 hour ago, skittl3862 said:

When Stone was examining the mother, he said "The doctor told you your baby would have this disease and you didn't want an abortion, and now want to abort it 10 months late!" or whatever. That's not what she said had happened at all. She told Barba the doctor said there was a CHANCE the baby would have the disease, and she chose to risk it. A chance is not "Your doctor told you that 100% certainty that your baby would be braindead in 24/7 pain and dependent on machines." 

Again. Each writer must've been assigned a bit and worked at home in their pajamas, then emailed it to an administrative assistant who cut and pasted it together. At least it was all in the right order.

 

1 hour ago, ChristiKRN said:

Withdrawing bipap or vent support without IV sedation and/or pain medication is inhumane.  Just a technicality but an important one if you are making a case about letting someone die peacefully. 

Maybe the person who wrote that scene assumed, like I did, that if someone was brain dead and could not see or hear, that there should be no pain. Given that the baby never cried or whimpered, I would have appreciated a medical professional explaining how it was known that there was pain. And then maybe the prosecution's expert witness could have explained that what Barba did was barbaric.

[CleoCaesar]

I seriously thought they were going to have Barba tell Olivia he was in love with her during his baffling speech at the end. He was all but groveling at her feet. Gross.

[ForeverAlone]

That dynamic has been that way for a while. Rafael was always the one asking her for drinks and dinner and to come over. But she kept rebuffing him. Now as an ANTI Barson shipper I was happy about that, but it does seem odd to continually push that dynamic. Or at least it just shows that everybody on this show must worship Olivia and think she is the sun, moon and stars, without her doing much appreciation in return. But again, I am just grateful that Rafael walked away from Olivia and didn't get down on one knee and propose. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by ForeverAlone

[MaryHedwig]

1 hour ago, CleoCaesar said:

I seriously thought they were going to have Barba tell Olivia he was in love with her during his baffling speech at the end. He was all but groveling at her feet. Gross.

Was Benson expecting to here that too when she said "and...." after his speech. Was Barba turning her down?

[dttruman]

11 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I think it obvious he is still a great writer, but he has been given a remit by Dick Wolf and NBC to try to improve things while also keeping Benson and her personal life front and center and catering to her conception of the character and giving her creative input. As far as the biggest problem with the script he could be following the grand franchise tradition of trashing characters you are writing off in an attempt to be shocking or for petty personal reasons (perhaps Esparza pushed back on the original plan to have Barba working for Stone?) or to try to set a new course which will promptly be undone

I was of the understanding that Michael Chernuchin had complete autonomy and he could write whatever he wanted (within reason). I thought he would come up with new scenarios and the writers would come up with plausible circumstances or excuses for regular episodes. But if he wrote something himself, then that was his "baby" and everybody had to follow it. I guess he doesn't have the clout to tell Hargitay that sometimes "it's not all about her".

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, ForeverAlone said:

Or at least it just shows that everybody on this show must worship Olivia and think she is the sun, moon and stars, without her doing much appreciation in return.

Do you think the next episode will be mostly about Benson? The preview they showed of the next episode concerned Cassidy.

[Xeliou66]

I honestly thought Barba was about to blurt out that he was in love with Benson and wanted to be with her forever during his final rant about how much he worshipped Benson. I was relieved that didn’t happen, I thought they were about to go the Barson route and I would’ve thrown up. It was so stupid how they made it that Barba would devote his life to trying to get in bed with a fat bitchy cow a decade older than him and that Benson is the only person in the world who cares about Barba. Notice how no one else was sitting behind Barba in the courtroom, not even his mother! I hate how they destroyed Barba’s character and made him revolve entirely around Benson. 

And yeah this exit was worse and more bizarre than the infamous “is this because I’m a lesbian” line. That was just out of left field, Barba’s exit and last few episodes completely destroyed his character. 

2 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Do you think the next episode will be mostly about Benson? The preview they showed of the next episode concerned Cassidy.

Of course it will be about Benson, almost every episode is entirely Benson, and I have a feeling this episode will be Cassidy under suspicion, Benson yelling at everyone who doubts him, Stone questioning her judgment and Benson being right in the end and being sanctified even more. 

[Kel Varnsen]

20 hours ago, Vicky8675309 said:

I support adults right to choose euthanasia for themselves but I'm not sure about in situations pertaining to children. It would depend on the context/situation. However I didn't get the controversy here since they said the child was brain dead (or did I hear that incorrectly)

I am not sure pulling the plug on someone counts as euthanasia does it. It is  more like having a dnr which is different from someone giving you a lethal injection of something. Also speaking of pulling a plug if he did that wouldn't a shit load of alarms go off on the machines? 

Lastly what was up with Jack saying Barba didn’t have to quit? In what world would that happen? More like I can't accept your resignation letter because I have to fire your ass.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm so tired of the old trope of someone covertly "pulling the plug" and the patient unknowingly dying.  For anyone with even a fundamental knowledge of ventilators, those things squawk and alarm for even the most minor offense.  It would have been shrieking when Barba just flipped the switch, along with the cardiac monitor, and he would have been forced to barricade the room to keep the code team from taking over.  The stupidity brings to mind satirical skits where the hapless maid turns off someone's ventilator with her mop handle, and blithely moves on to the next room while the patient convulses in death.  It would have been a perfect Carol Burnett skit, and maybe it was.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Really, the father of the baby gets probation after, binding and confining his teenage babysitter? That girl with have emotional scars for life.

Not to mention holding the baby hostage, and forcing the city to expend man hours and resources to hunt him down.  It was just ridiculous.  Though I suppose it was particularly horrifying that everyone just forgot he tied up the babysitter and locked her in a cupboard.   

Quote

Lastly what was up with Jack saying Barba didn’t have to quit? In what world would that happen? More like I can't accept your resignation letter because I have to fire your ass.

 

Yes, the same DA's office that fired Serena for being "too passionate," is fine with having someone who took it upon himself to end a random baby's life for no real reason, except he was there and he told a similar story earlier in the day about how he couldn't do it for his daddy.  

I'm actually a little confused about Jack's position.  I was under the impression that he was no longer the DA, or at least I thought one of the characters had mentioned there was someone other than Jack in that position.  However, here he was acting like he was DA, at least in that he took Barba's resignation and tried to talk him out of it.   

[Kel Varnsen]

8 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Really, the father of the baby gets probation after, binding and confining his teenage babysitter? That girl with have emotional scars for life

Not just confining her, telling her if she made any noise he was going to kill her. Where were her parents in all of this, were they not pressuring the DA to charge the guy with something more.

10 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Yes, the same DA's office that fired Serena for being "too passionate," is fine with having someone who took it upon himself to end a random baby's life for no real reason,

You might be thinking of someone else, because I am pretty sure she was fired for being a lesbian.

[WendyCR72]

12 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm actually a little confused about Jack's position.  I was under the impression that he was no longer the DA, or at least I thought one of the characters had mentioned there was someone other than Jack in that position.  However, here he was acting like he was DA, at least in that he took Barba's resignation and tried to talk him out of it.   

Thinking SVU took a page from CI in that it basically made that mention just go "poof", just as CI had Goren and Eames return for a final season without much explanation despite Goren being fired and Eames quitting because of it.

That's the trouble with the later writing. The team(s) write something without considering the long term, so then they have to hand wave the earlier event down the road.

[txhorns79]

Quote

You might be thinking of someone else, because I am pretty sure she was fired for being a lesbian.

No, of course not, no. 

[WendyCR72]

3 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

You might be thinking of someone else, because I am pretty sure she was fired for being a lesbian.

If I recall, Serena dropped her little bombshell after being fired, asking if that was why. But the firing had already occurred.

[dttruman]

10 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

If I recall, Serena dropped her little bombshell after being fired, asking if that was why. But the firing had already occurred.

I seem to remember Branch telling Serena, she would make a better advocate lawyer than a prosecutor then fired her. I would agree with her because Branch was always a little two faced.

[Willowsmom]

I loved that  Barba rejected Benson in the end....

[Xeliou66]

Again, it’s easy to explain how McCoy is back as the DA, he ran again for office and was elected. It’s likely that his replacement would’ve come under heavy fire after the escort scandal involving so many city officials and in the next election McCoy ran against him and beat him. Not sure why people are acting like this is a plot hole, they didn’t acknowledge how McCoy was back in office but it’s easy to explain.

[natalie wood]

56 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

If I recall, Serena dropped her little bombshell after being fired, asking if that was why. But the firing had already occurred.

That is exactly what happened. I read all the L&O forms and WendyCR72 you seem to love the franchise as much as I do. I just don’t post. I find that I’m hate watching SVU. I don’t want to give it up but St. Olivia of Perpetual Sanctimony and Self Righteousness has ruined this show. I am so hoping the return of McCoy and intro of Stone to the L&O world is so they can do a mothership reboot. I know it won’t happen but I can dream. I miss a really good procedural esp good L&O. Repeats of this show are so much better than just about anything on regular tv these days.

Olivia infuriated me when she said the best ADA she’d ever worked with was Barba. Really, Olivia????? What about Cabot and Novak? I guess both of them almost dying for a case is insignificant compared to your (MH) need to have a tongue bath from the people who work with you. Boy does this show need Cragen back to put her in her place. TPTB really need to do something about her but maybe they really want to cancel and are letting MH sink this ship so it’ll all be on her. If that happens she only has to look in the mirror because it is her fault.

Branch did tell her she’d be a better advocate but I believe it was after she asked if it was b/c she was a lesbian.

Edited February 9, 2018 by natalie wood

[Gigglepuff]

Just now, natalie wood said:

Olivia infuriated me when she said the best ADA she’d ever worked with was Barba. Really, Olivia????? What about Cabot and Novak?

Exactly! It reminded me of when she said the same thing to Amaro in his departure episode. Like Stabler or not, (I'm ambivalent about him), he was a major part of the franchise for many years, and a few years later she grew more with with him than she ever did with Stabler. Guess what, lady? That's on you. What's with the need to slight former characters though? 

[methadonna]

22 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Did this episode have each scene written by a different writer with no one ever reading the whole thing?

OMG, you’re so right. The episode reminded me of one of my old stand-by classroom activities (calling it a “lesson” is a bit of a stretch) ... on days when we’d have an early release before a vacation or some other nonsense that would cycle into ensuring fewer and fewer students would actually attend class that day, meaning I couldn’t go on with a sequential lesson for which students would be responsible, I’d often have my students write “pass-around” stories.

Each kid at the table would start writing about whatever for x minutes, and then the timer would go off, they’d pass their piece to the kid next to them, read the part of the new story they’d gotten and then continue writing that story, pass, etc., until they all got the stories they’d started back.

The goal and expectation was never to have a brilliant piece of writing at the end, but it was a good way to get fairly resistant readers and writers excited and focused on doing both: kids that would whine or curse about writing at all would beg not to stop every time the timer went off (aw, fuck, it was to keep them on-task, busy, and quiet on a day it was pretty hard to convince them, let alone justify, why they should do anything but play with their cell phones or “talk” (“like all our other teachers let us do, you bitch”), when three-quarters of their classmates were being allowed to spend the day roaming the streets...)

 

Anyway, their stories usually started out pretty good, then veered off in some semi-related but vastly different direction than the opener intended (generally, with that very goal), and ultimately concluding in a complete denouement of nonsensical absurdity. Yet, no matter how much I had to work at holding back my frustration for the one who seemed to most sabotage the story with real potential, often thinking the story starter was going to be upset her or his idea was “ruined,” they almost all always thought they had done something brilliant, inevitably picking the table’s most inane one as the one they’d read to the class (but wanting to read them all), asking if I’d make copies so they could each have a copy of each of the four stories they’d worked on (usually, I’d be trying to convince them not to throw out far better stuff—which was all supposed to be saved in their portfolios—but this inanity, they wanted every bit of, they were so sure of their genius).

 

So, I agree that’s what the writing felt like, and then, just as I was questioning how, even if the writers were monkeys hitting randomly at typewriters, Raúl could have gotten himself to say half that shit with conviction (was he TRYING to get himself thrown in jail? How could such a good lawyer defend himself so poorly as a witness? And I’ve already covered his inane Receiver speech to Saint Giver), I read that interview with him where he claimed to think it was brilliant and talked even more about how becoming friends with Saint Mariska outside of the show has affected him as both an actor and a human being. 

 

And, unlike in that previous tweet or whatever it was in which he talked about how Mariska is the sun around which we all revolve, and Mariska, she is also the moon(face), or whatevs, where I really thought maybe he was just secretly taking the piss out of her (sorry, ever since I saw her on Inside the Actor’s Studio—at which point, I had still enjoyed her on the show—I’ve suspected she’s...not very bright, and it’s made it harder for me to appreciate even Early Benson, because RL Mariska came across to me as such an icky combination of dumb and desperate-to-be-liked-while-being-extremely-dislikable), he came off in this interview as being completely genuine in his Mariska love (and further notable in his mention of his development of a friendship with her, and not mentioning that he’ll miss anyone else in the cast,  mirroring the ending) AND his love for the episode as his sendoff. 

 

So, much like my under-prepared sixth-graders, I guess I’m both happy for him and disappointed in him that this is what he’s pleased with.

 

But, just as I never saw could fully see Benson past Mariska once I’d “seen” Mariska, now that I’ve seen a bit more of the current Raúl, maybe I’m no longer so bitter that I can’t see that Chess concert (and I once had either the audacity or naïveté to write a final paper for a doctoral class as a satire of Chess, so, trust, I was bitter).

 

(No, the class had nothing to do with music, theater, or musical theater. I was just obnoxious enough to see if I could get in the message of how academia was just a big bullshit chess game by successfully submitting a bad musical instead of a good formal paper. (I could)).

 

Nah, I don’t hate him yet. But if he shows up next year with a Macy’s Day Parade Balloon Float Face o’ saintyouthful fillers, I retain the right to amend this statement.

 

Otoh, Chess is a fitting follow up to an episode as piecemeal as this one. There’s a reason they’re doing it as a concert and not a full production where the book preferably makes sense and matters. It didn’t originally even have one. Maybe this episode started as a concept album, too. As awful as this episode was? Is This Because I’m A Kinda-Baby-Killer?: The Concept Album COULD be amazing.

 

As a fully realized play, otoh?

::Scrim drops as Saint Olivia Benson gives encore performance of “I Know Him So Well.” Before curtain closes, a second spotlight shows the silhouette of Stone; he can’t help but nod along. Before the curtain reaches the floor, the last image the audience sees is a pair of feet, in shackles, next to Stone. Still in silhouette, Stone’s hands reach down and silently release the chains. In that brief moment between the end of Benson’s glorious song, both a touching tribute to the man she feared she was losing to his insane decision the prison system about which this strongly anti-sexuall-assault show sometimes reduces to a rape joke, and a poignant plea to his replacement that, despite his, well, sole purpose here, he should forget that pesky law and listen to her, because, as the song says, She Knows Him So Well, her voice like an angel...a Saint, even, and the audience’s obvious thunderous applause, that moment of complete silence as the audience takes in everything, digesting the gravity, the beauty found in seeing both the joy and the tragedy, the silence is broken by the unmistakable clanking of the dropping of the chains. Saint Olivia was right all along: how could Stone have not seen it sooner? He cannot send Rafa to jail. Is he ROR, to stand trial sometime later, or won’t he be charged at all? In the game of chess that is the New York City’s most elite ADAs, one never knows if one is truly free. Curtain Closed; audience applauds widely::

 

Yup, the book sucks. Concert Version, it is.

[Vicky8675309]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I am not sure pulling the plug on someone counts as euthanasia does it. It is  more like having a dnr which is different from someone giving you a lethal injection of something. Also speaking of pulling a plug if he did that wouldn't a shit load of alarms go off on the machines? 

Lastly what was up with Jack saying Barba didn’t have to quit? In what world would that happen? More like I can't accept your resignation letter because I have to fire your ass.

 

I was extrapolating to euthanasia since DNI/DNR's aren't controversial imo. Poor wording on my part.

[katisha]

I watched this episode last night and like many of you, am bewildered that Barba's unbelievably OOC actions are to be his SVU epitaph. Is Rollins a liberal or a fan of right-wing hatemongers? Is Carisi a good friend to Rollins or does he secretly have the hots for her and living in constant sexual frustration. About the only thing that is consistent about this show anymore is that St Benson is always right at all times and the supreme goddess of the universe. Puke.

[preeya]

On 2/7/2018 at 7:35 PM, Gigglepuff said:

I must say that everyone knocked it out of the park tonight, especially the actress who played the mom

 

That was Abigail Hawk who plays Det. Abigail Baker on Blue Bloods.

[LittleIggy]

Sad that RE is leaving. At least he got to act his butt off in his last episode. Great to see Jack McCoy again.

[ForeverAlone]

Rafael apparently has been a prosecutor for 21 years, but has only learned to see colors in the past six years. Way to completely denigrate the first 15 years of his career (was it all in Brooklyn, or was it elsewhere). He was a badass, hot shit lawyer who got shit done and won complicated cases when he first got to Manhattan.  If that is Rafael lacking color, I'm just fine with him staying in black and white.

Edited February 9, 2018 by ForeverAlone

[Xeliou66]

Cragen is sorely missed, Benson is such an awful leader, so biased and unprofessional. It was so laughable how she treated Stone, she was incredibly rude and unprofessional, refusing to shake his hand and saying “I hope you suck” right there in front of the DA himself no less! Beyond unprofessional for a squad leader. This is why I hate Benson, she’s a complete joke and routinely behaves like an unprofessional, incompetent fool, and yet the show acts like she does no wrong and is a saint. And Mariska saying that she can’t tell the difference between herself and Benson, well that just shows who she is, her ego is out of control and delusional. I also find it interesting how Raul almost seemed to be saying about Mariska what Barba said about Olivia, but he also seemed to hint that he wasn’t satisfied with the writing for Barba the past couple of years and that the character was different than when he started.

[mccartygirl]

WTF did I just see. I wasn't spoiled beforehand. Couldn't we keep Barba and get rid of Amanda???

[dttruman]

9 hours ago, natalie wood said:

Olivia infuriated me when she said the best ADA she’d ever worked with was Barba. Really, Olivia????? What about Cabot and Novak?

If I remember right, Barba lost a lot of cases because he didn't have the best of evidence. Yet he always seemed to take the cases to court at the behest of Benson.

[ForeverAlone]

If you read the subtext of his exit interview, Raul was definitely unhappy with the writing and characterization for Rafael in season 18 (understandably, since the legal writing was often dumb last season). He seems very complimentary of Michael's legal writing, but I wonder if he truly likes some of the stuff. He complimented the emotional complexity of his exit episode, but I have a hard time believing he was ecstatic that one of Rafael's last acts was to kill a baby and go on trial. It certainly wasn't the exit he imagined (whatever that was). I have rarely had a problem with the way Raul acted his part, but I often had serious qualms about the quality of writing for his character. He acted dumb and out of character at times, because he was poorly written at times. I bet Raul really missed Warren, because he wrote better for Rafael.