S35.E08: Playing with the Devil

[TVFan1]

Another episode where a Healer had to go. Of course, beautiful Desi had to be the one too. Love you, Desi. You should have stayed. Joe could have easily have gone instead.  There is literally no one to root for now. Everyone else besides Dr. Mike is horrible and unlikable.

Not surprised that weasel Ryan found the idol buried under the flag. It's quite clear all of the horrible people are getting close to the end.

[candall]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

Joe seemed suspicious during the revote...as if he realized the vote count on the first vote didnt add up. 

I was hoping they would all vote Joe.

Cole definitely ate more than his share. I don’t think Joe got much at all.  I did like that he put himself last. 

I expected Cole to scarf up all the remaining food when he arrived.  Oh, I just never thought about stuff like other people needing to eat after me.  Derrrr, sorry.

 

I didn't exactly 'like' Joe for putting himself last.  It was more strategic than gracious.  But it was smart.  So I have to admire him for it.

I chuckled when someone said [paraphrase]:  I'm not sure whether Joe's playing a clever game by sowing seeds of dissension, or he's just a dick.

[princelina]

3 hours ago, dizzyd said:

There goes another one of my faves. Love her. Surely someone's going to do the math and wonder why that vote was tied. And wtf happened to the Healers that they couldn't keep it together for the vote?!!

You'd think that would be where actuary skills come into play, no?  Hopefully they'll address it at the beginning of the next ep when they go back to their camp.

 

 

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

More "ticks" from Ben.  Ben decides he "just doesn't like" a person extremely often.  Every 5 minutes.  "I just don't like _______."  Ok Ben.  This is kind of like torture isn't it, putting this kind of person in a competition like this?  I don't know if this will come off as insensitive but I think he needs some time to relax at home.  He's so easily messed with and I lost some love for Joe because he knew it and purposely messed with him.

I know he has never liked Cole, and decided he didn't like Joe tonight when Joe was winding him up, but are there others?

[blackwing]

Poor Desi.  I was heartbroken seeing how heartbroken she was.  This beautiful goddess should be a lock for the next Second Chances.

Ben is a douchenozzle jackhole DICK.  He uses the Marines as an excuse for everything.  I can't believe he's making me root for Joe and Cole.  "I saw you put something in your pants."  I thought we were going to have another strip search.

I think Joe seemed to be aware the number of votes was off.  He had this puzzled look.

[NeverLate]

Love Laurens advantage, plus the shared meal.( the guys weren't very fair)  They have really changed things up this season. I had a feeling Cole would win II, he had to, or else he was going home. I'd totally keep Joe, he knows how to press Bens buttons, so he'll always have a target on him. Although too much and Ben might just swing for him. 
Ryan seems to dart in and out just like his tongue does, he whips over, gets the idol, tells Chrissy to cover up the hole, stands by as they all jump on for the idol, that was already taken. Smart move with the community plate Ryan! we laughed!
Next week Ryan does a Cole and tells everyone.
Desi was gorgeous, strong as well. Its a shame she was aligned with Joe! 

 

[GaT]

I couldn't even look at the food by the time they were done, all I could think of was how Joe was eating everybody else's spit, yeeeech.

So disappointed  that both Cole & Joe are still there.

[millennium]

I have watched this show since the beginning.   I have seen some pretty gross eating challenges.   In all those years nothing has disgusted me more than the close-ups of Devon and J.P eating spaghetti.   There should have been some kind of warning: The following contains scenes of public mastication and contempt for social norms.  Viewer discretion advised. 

Did anyone else notice Joe doing this several times:

[MrsR]

Gorgeous girl. Sorry to see her go.

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I wish I had some of whatever Probst and Devon smoked at TC.

You and me both.  Of the remaining contestants, Devon remains one of my favorites.

 

5 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I'm still confused about who is on what alliance and who voted for whom, to be honest, but I finally wasn't bored out of my mind.

 

3 hours ago, 303420 said:

I want very much to know how it came about that Desi voted Lauren. I don't think she voted herself out with that vote, but it sure did confuse things, at least for me. I'm having trouble figuring out how the votes add up, and I'm not hungry and sleep - deprived. And also I saw the votes at the end.

Personally, I found the way tonight's vote shook out to be delicious.  :>

1. After the last TC, the lines appeared - on the surface, anyway - to be drawn along original Tribal alliances: 4 Healers (Cole, Desi, Joe, Mike) vs. a 7-strong coalition of 4 Heroes (Ashley, Ben, Chrissy, JP) + 3 Hustlers (Devon, Lauren, Ryan).  The Heroes+Hustlers alliance appeared to be primarily a marriage of convenience for the sole purpose to leveling off the then-5-strong Healers, however - the fragility of which which could give the Healers hope for the next TC, once leveled down to the point of not being an obvious overwhelming voting bloc.
2. Joe knew the idol-shy 7-strong might be paranoid enough to split their votes, which would present as a 4-3 vote on their part.  This presented - on Joe's mind, at least - an opportunity for the remaining 4 Healers: an en masse bloc vote by the remaining Healers would at least force a 4-4-3 tie, and convincing at least one of the seven to flip at TC would give the Healers a 5-3-3 or 5-4-2 win.
3. The result, however, ended up being Joe's worst nightmare.  Not only did Joe not succeed in flipping at least one vote among either Heroes or Hustlers, he actually lost ground.  The en masse Healer voting bloc (upon which Joe's plan depended) disintegrated - two Healers (Mike and Cole) defected, crossed lines to join the coalition, and voted against Joe.
4. The only significance of Desi's vote (the single vote against Lauren) was to show how far out of the loop Desi was with her own group; she obviously wasn't informed of any coordinated TC vote plan, so Desi just threw out a random pick.  Which doesn't speak well for Joe's coordinating skills within his own group.

End result being: Desi is voted off the Island, Joe is now a coalition of one, everybody on the planet knows Joe doesn't have an idol to play, and at least two people (Ryan and Chrissy) know Joe will continue to be idol-less at the next TC as well - which made Desi (the stronger Challenge competitor of the two) an easy pick this time around.  

[backformore]

The shared meal was gross.   When one person eats, and then puts their fork back in the dish of food, they contaminate the food with their germs.  And in an environment where they don't have soap, toothpaste, etc,  there are more germs that are being passed around from one mouth to the next.  

[KimberStormer]

On this sort of season you say to yourself "what's the worst that can happen?" and boom, you've spoiled yourself for the whole episode.  Yet another woman going home?  Ryan getting an idol?  Gross "reward"?  Check check check.  Also when Cole says "If I can win immunity it could change the game for me," just before the commercial break, you know a) he will win immunity and b) it won't change the game for him.  Though it should have, thanks to Lauren's advantage, except for another worst thing happening, Dr. Mike getting handed the reins to screw his erstwhile tribe over with, and smirking smugly from the bench like the douchebag in schlub's clothing that he is.  I'm surprised neither that he realized how weird it was that they needed him, nor that he was too chickenshit to do anything with that realization.  I will say that Lauren being the one to find the advantage was both unexpected and delightful, though I fear it will not work out for her in the end -- even Officer Sarah's advantage didn't really work out, despite the fact that she won the game. 

I can't say I ever saw what you guys see in Desi -- she was pretty much a boring nothing -- but then if she was edited like she was actually there, that might not have been the case.  But it's crazy how quickly the women have been eliminated in this season.  That's two newbie seasons in a row with this sort of voting pattern, and it's freaking me out.

The team of huge superfit dudes winning was no surprise, but that was one of those anti-rewards that you hope and pray to lose.  Not quite on a Brenda-in-Caramoan level, but very, very bad.  It was bad in every way -- extra levels of stress with social disaster on the line, disgusting food you can't even pig out on for pure calories, terrible company, and, it turns out, a clue that most of the people are going to see, so screwing the first eater out of everything.  Then you get hapless Cole, trying to hide the clue (which is to be fair good thinking) by moving a heaping plate of spaghetti onto a cloth, and weirdly Chrissy not finding this suspicious apparently because she still thinks she's the first to find the clue...and then did Joe find it strange that they would provide a cloth of spaghetti, instead of a plate?? 

6 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I fake-swear on the marines, we better not be in for another Pagonging.

Sorry man, I don't see how else it can possibly go.

4 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I guess Peachy put Lauren's name on her ballot in order to keep them from knowing that she hadn't played a ballot?

I thought so too at first and was like "what a terrible way to do that, she could vote herself off by accident" but then nope, it was Desi who voted for her for some reason.  I honestly have no idea.  Presumably we'll find out in the exit interviews.  Did she know Cole and Mike were flipping and just voted for whoever?  I can't understand why she and Joe wouldn't vote for the same person.

Gotta root for Chrissy, though I'm not sure she can win it with the edit she's getting.  Not the smug confessionals or whatever -- villain winners can be as smug as they like -- but the emphasis on her being overheard while whispering conspiratorily.  That looks like incompetence, and they don't make winners look incompetent.

But please Survivor gods, not Ryan or Mike.  Anyone but them.

Edited November 16, 2017 by KimberStormer
stupid forum deleted my paragraph

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I guess Peachy put Lauren's name on her ballot in order to keep them from knowing that she hadn't played a ballot?

Nope.  The TC vote was shown at the very end of the episode, and Desi cast the Lauren vote.

And any contestant who was paying attention can figure out the voting tally - 1 for Ben, 1 for Lauren, 4 for Joe, and 4 Desi - equates to 10 votes cast by 11 people.  :)

[cooksdelight]

4 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I have to wonder how it is that Lauren got that advantage into her pocket with the camera focusing direct on her putting in to her pocket, and nobody else noticed anything.

No one noticed because none of these people are working with high-functioning brains.

[violet and green]

3 hours ago, princelina said:

You'd think that would be where actuary skills come into play, no?  Hopefully they'll address it at the beginning of the next ep when they go back to their camp.

Exactly! I count on my fingers, and I figured that out - surely Chrissie would have raised an eyebrow over those figures?

[KimberStormer]

Question for those who like to freeze-frame and read rules: did Lauren have to use her advantage this vote, or could she have saved it for later?  For example, a time when they weren't splitting and Probst wouldn't read all the votes because the majority would have been reached (you know, when he says "That's 5, that's enough" and doesn't read the rest.)  I know Lauren said she had to use it this time, but I was wondering if she was right about that.

[millennium]

2 hours ago, backformore said:

The shared meal was gross.   When one person eats, and then puts their fork back in the dish of food, they contaminate the food with their germs.  And in an environment where they don't have soap, toothpaste, etc,  there are more germs that are being passed around from one mouth to the next.  

Food was DROPPING out of J.P.'s mouth onto the platter.

Probst looks like he has a Hair Club For Men thing going on.

Edited November 16, 2017 by millennium

[himela]

I'm so so mad with f#$$ing Chrissy who once more chose to vote out a woman rather than a man! Who is gonna tell me now she doesn't hate women? I'm sorry for my language but I rarely find myself that mad after watching Survivor.

I have nothing else to say about this episode at the moment, I'm really frustrated. I mean, I do aknowledge Chrissy is a smart player BUT voting out only women is outrageous. Only 2 more women left other than her. I guess Ashley should start packing.

Ben shut up. You are not the center of the world and you are not the king here. Other people have problems as well. Being a marine does not eliminate other people's real life troubles. Shut up.

Sorry, I'm very mad at the moment.

[himela]

9 hours ago, Haleth said:

They are quickly running out of likable survivors. I don't get why they voted out Desi on the second vote. Didn't everyone want to get rid of Joe?

Cause Joe has made himself such an unlikeable person who is the perfect "Russell Hantz" character to bring to the end with.

[Haleth]

I thought for sure Chrissy would realize Jeff was a vote short.

I was kind of surprised the advantage meant that Lauren couldn't vote in the revote either.  Maybe that would have made the missing vote in the first vote more obvious though.

Desi's Ponderosa video shows her to be a lovely, thoughtful person.  Maybe that is why they voted her out.  Too bad we never got a chance to know her in the game.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Haleth

[JudyObscure]

Ben just wanted to be offended over the Marine thing.  People on this show swear on their families all the time so the idea seems to be to name something that is precious to them.  So why would Ben be insulted at the suggestion that he swore on the Marines?  So he can talk about his service a little more, his huge sacrifice, and, well just how amazing a hero he is for, as he said in the first episode, "putting my life on the line for others."  Heroes are great.  Heroes who can't quit talking about how wonderful they are, while their eyes fill with tears and faint tones of bulges sound in the distance?  Less great. 

I also wish they would all quit talking strategy with, "We have two hustlers and three healers against three heroes," because  I don't know who they're talking about.

I'm just feeling bitter about Desi being voted out and the nastiest food reward ever.

[Fake Jan Brady]

10 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

What a shock, another woman goes home. 

Oh no, they must be planning an all male alliance!

Said no-one, ever. What's up with that?

[Daisy]

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

That happened recently right?  That's how Cirie was bounced?  Everyone was safe except her?

I am still not over that. and yah that's basically what happened. 

 

9 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Scary thing about that was, that wasn't even something they were trying to accomplish.  It made me wonder if they'd hold back on idols, super idols, and advantages as a result.

I know. answer... kind of? 
 

7 hours ago, BK1978 said:

I was thinking the same thing and what I ended up believing is that even though Joe talks a big game and he is annoying, Desi is/was a huge threat to win Immunity every time out.  She won it last week and did really well this week, so it is easy to see why the target was put directly on her.  Joe on the other hand is not all that great at challenges and seems to be a devious guy.  Part of me has to wonder if he might be the last one left in his alliance strictly because he would be a good goat and when the majority alliance eventually splits apart they could use him for the vote and maybe even as a goat.

It does suck to see Desi go mainly because we hardly got to know her.

Desi leaving hurts. she was my pick in my pool to win (but she made it further than Sandra so. yay for that LOL. i'm getting better). But we only got to see her when she was in trouble, so it got kind of nervous. 

I've missed you guys. this has been a hellish three months for me, and this is the first time I've actually got to see the episode live, and get to post in a thread not too far gone.  my goodness this season is boring. 

Something that always makes me curious is here there's a lot of "well another woman is gone." Why does that matter? Desi was the target because she was a threat to the majority alliance to win challenges - she won the first, and she nearly won the second. Joe - while being annoying as heck - played the idol. (and Chrissy knows that Ryan has it so chances are there will not be another one unless he has to play it - and doesn't know about Lauren's advantage). We know that in this stage, people tend to want to vote off potential threats to go on immunity challenge runs. 

So vs. Joe + Desi - who is the bigger threat. It's Desi.  So it made sense to remove her.  I mean there are sometimes where it gets ridiculous that women get blamed for all the losing and they get pinged off one by one by one (I think of Fiji right away for this example). If the men were getting pinged off would we mention "there goes another guy?" (well maybe we would because guy pinging in a row isn't as prevalent - that's what made One World stand out so much that the guys got pagonged). If it was Cole vs. Desi - I believe Cole would have been voted off (as people don't like him, he eats all the food and he is strong enough to go on a challenge run). 

 

[ProfCrash]

On Lauren finding the note and no one noticing: They are exhausted, sleep deprived and starving. They are not going to see much outside of their immediate field of vision and there are a good number of camera men focused on different people and events at camp. The camera men are good enough to know how to frame a shot without being totally obvious. I am sure that they knew to watch where the nails were and film whenever anyone was near them. It looked like the nails were in a centralized location and that it was not odd for someone to be there. Lauren did a good job of being reasonably nonchalant when she noticed the note.

I always chuckle when people are all worried about germs and the like on these shows. I fall into the category of who cares. They each had their own fork and they are all in each others space 24/7 so the shared germs are nothing new. I get the fingers in PB jar is gross because even I stop at that but a clean fork on a shared plate of pasta just doesn't bother me. The napkin thing was fine. The napkin was clean before the spaghetti was dumped on it. I love that it took three people before someone thought to hide the plate. So I was more in the, eh who cares crowd. I didn't care when my toddler was eating dirt, I did tell him no and I did not let him near dog poop, but a little dirt is not going to hurt him. (It was our back yard and I know what my husband puts into the soil and when). Kids eat dirt, no biggie. Just make sure it is not poop and he is not put on the ground after fertilizer has been applied. Oh, and avoid the yellow snow....

And people complain about alpha male alliances all the time. They just normally complain about the jocks or the alphas getting together again and groan at how obvious it is and then comment on how it will fall apart.

I am more then annoyed that Joe is still in the game but he is probably the wiser person to keep in the game. Desi seems to be well liked. She doesn't rock the boat and is good in challenges. Joe is a loud mouth asshole who pisses people off. He pushes buttons and everyone knows it. Ben knew what Joe was doing and apologized for his reaction to Joe. Ben should not have reacted the way that he did because he knew what Joe was doing. The entire camp knew what Joe was doing. Joe has not shown that he is going to go on an individual immunity idol run while Desi had won a challenge and came in third in another challenge. She is the better game vote out but I so wanted Joe to be gone.

[alexa]

After the last couple of seasons with the constant changes and switchups and surprises, this season is boring me to tears.  Every time someone leaves it seems it is someone I actually like, leaving me with fewer and fewer ones I like.  I don't understand half of their votes, they don't really seem to be doing anything interesting, I still hardly know any of them, ugh.

[green]

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Question for those who like to freeze-frame and read rules: did Lauren have to use her advantage this vote, or could she have saved it for later?

I think when she read the rules out loud she had to use it at the next tribal.  Which is how all the "advantages" this season work so far.

1 hour ago, himela said:

I'm so so mad with f#$$ing Chrissy who once more chose to vote out a woman rather than a man! Who is gonna tell me now she doesn't hate women? ...

I am.  I see absolute zero evidence that Chrissy hates women.  Each voting choice she has made has been logical and analytical and in her best interests.  And she hasn't engineered that choice all the time either.  It is often a group decision.  Last week it was Ryan that suggested Jessica remember. 

Voting Desai out was absolutely the right call at this tribal.  And I wouldn't be surprised Ryan was more into keeping Joe than Chrissy was.  Joe is the perfect goat and he and Ben going at it will distract from the other players becoming targets in the short run and, as Ryan mentioned, help him (Ryan) take out Ben down the line.

40 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Something that always makes me curious is here there's a lot of "well another woman is gone." Why does that matter? Desi was the target because she was a threat to the majority alliance to win challenges - she won the first, and she nearly won the second. Joe - while being annoying as heck - played the idol. (and Chrissy knows that Ryan has it so chances are there will not be another one unless he has to play it - and doesn't know about Lauren's advantage). We know that in this stage, people tend to want to vote off potential threats to go on immunity challenge runs. 

So vs. Joe + Desi - who is the bigger threat. It's Desi.  So it made sense to remove her.  I mean there are sometimes where it gets ridiculous that women get blamed for all the losing and they get pinged off one by one by one (I think of Fiji right away for this example). If the men were getting pinged off would we mention "there goes another guy?" (well maybe we would because guy pinging in a row isn't as prevalent - that's what made One World stand out so much that the guys got pagonged). If it was Cole vs. Desi - I believe Cole would have been voted off (as people don't like him, he eats all the food and he is strong enough to go on a challenge run). 

 

I agree totally here.  Cole would have been their first choice to vote out but they couldn't do it.  Joe will be a vote for hire as he made clear to Ryan (not Chrissy, note) and can be used against Ben.  Desai is strong and can win immunity challenges.  The vote was a no brainer.

29 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I always chuckle when people are all worried about germs and the like on these shows. I fall into the category of who cares

 

Me too.  I didn't see anything gross or disgusting with the meal.  The human race has eaten out of the same pot for most of it's existence.  No big deal.

[ghoulina]

My thoughts are all over the place, so bear with me. 

I was glad to see Lauren found the advantage. I'm low key rooting for her, and she's not exactly in the BEST position. So good for her. That advantage was confusing as fuck, at first. I was like, "Why wouldn't you vote? That's not an advantage!" I get it. And it worked out okay for her. I'm glad she told Ben, so they didn't end up splitting the vote. They didn't need to anyhow. I don't know why everyone was convinced that Joe had ANOTHER Idol. They're all at the same camp now, so only one Idol would be in play. It became pretty clear after the reward who was a contender for it and who was not, so....

Anyhow, I really liked the idea of that reward. It was interesting on so many levels. First, the dynamics of who would eat first and last, and how much each person would take. I was yelling, "Don't let Cole go first!" It was smart of Joe to go last. Last immediately sounds worst, but if you think about it....it may be best. If people are worried about taking too much, they're going to stop themselves. If you're last, you don't gotta worry about it. Just eat! 

Although, after all the shennanigans with moving the spaghetti around, I may not have wanted any of that mess. The clue was interesting. Cole wasn't a total idiot, he tried to find a way to cover it. But Ryan proved to be the smartest one, but getting rid of the evidence entirely. He was also the most perceptive and got that Idol before anyone else had a chance to. Although.....I could swear that I saw JP right there when Ryan stuck the thing down his pants? Am I crazy? So Chrissy and JP will both know for sure, which isn't a huge problem, since they're all working together for now. 

Those two aren't AS smart and stealthy as they think they are, though. That whispering right next to Cole and others while the reward was still going on was so stupid. They made it obvious that they knew about the clue too. If they hadn't done that, there might not have been as big of a cluster back at camp. 

So the vote super confused me. I was like, "Why are there only two votes for non-Healers?" Both Dr. Mike AND Cole decided to turn on their small group? And then Desi and Joe weren't even on the same page? What the what what? I was sad to see Desi go, especially after she used the word, "demonstrative". But I do see why they'd pick her over Joe. She won the first IC and was super close to winning the 2nd. Joe also pisses everyone off, so he'll always have a target on his back. 

[amazingracefan]

JP saw Ryan get the advantage, right?  He was right behind him, how couldn't he see?

[ghoulina]

53 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I always chuckle when people are all worried about germs and the like on these shows. I fall into the category of who cares. They each had their own fork and they are all in each others space 24/7 so the shared germs are nothing new.

I agree. Didn't bother me at all. But I'm also one of those weirdos who not only doesn't worry about exposure to germs, but actually thinks it's good for you (except for, ya know, being exposed to Ebola and the like). Sharing a fork or a plate isn't the end of the world. 

 

14 minutes ago, green said:

I am.  I see absolute zero evidence that Chrissy hates women.  Each voting choice she has made has been logical and analytical and in her best interests.  And she hasn't engineered that choice all the time either.  It is often a group decision.  Last week it was Ryan that suggested Jessica remember. 

Voting Desai out was absolutely the right call at this tribal.  And I wouldn't be surprised Ryan was more into keeping Joe than Chrissy was.  Joe is the perfect goat and he and Ben going at it will distract from the other players becoming targets in the short run and, as Ryan mentioned, help him (Ryan) take out Ben down the line.

I'm with you. This season has been unfair on women, but I don't think it's been intentional. All of the votes have made sense, to me. It just happens to suck for the women. And I do think that if Cole hadn't won Immunity, it would have been him over Desi. 

[ProfCrash]

JP saw it and Ryan told him about it. I think JP saw Ryan digging by the flag and went to see what was happening and got there as Ryan was putting the idol into his underwear. Chrissy started walking that way and Ryan told her to cover up the hole and that he had the idol. So at least two people know that Ryan has the idol.

Count me into the camp of Chrissy voting out women does not make her a woman hater. Is Ryan a woman hater because he has voted out women? Or JP? Or anyone else who has voted with the majority and voted out a woman?

Roark was not in an alliance with Chrissy and was targeting Chrissy. It was Roarke or Chrissy and Roarke went home. Ali was not in an alliance with Chrissy and was in one with Ryan. It was in Chrissy's best interest to remove someone who was a threat to pull Ryan away from Chrissy. Jessica was a tertiary target who got hit because people knew Joe had the idol and was worried that Joe might play the idol for Cole. No one thought that the idol would be played for Jessica so she was voted out because it reduced the opposing alliances numbers. Desi was voted out because she won a challenge and was in good shape in another challenge. On top of that, Desi is well spoken and appeared not to cause drama. So Desi was a better target then Joe for a multitude of reasons. Not to mention, Joe will continue to annoy Ben and distract Ben, which benefits Ryan and Chrissy.

Chrissy is voting out people who are a threat to her game. That is what she is suppose to do. Nothing in the rules say that a woman has to take one or two other women to the finals with her. In the end, 15-16 people are going to be voted out before the final tribal. Which means that 6-8 women are going to be voted out. That is simply the game.

Edited November 16, 2017 by ProfCrash

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

Something that always makes me curious is here there's a lot of "well another woman is gone." Why does that matter? Desi was the target because she was a threat to the majority alliance to win challenges - she won the first, and she nearly won the second.

I agree.  I was sorry to see Desi go because I liked her, but she was a very smart choice to eliminate.  I actually see it as a nice learning arc for the show, because for years the cast (and Probst)  had trouble seeing anyone but the big muscular men as threats. 

I'm certainly not going to root for "I'm the smartest person out here," Chrissy or "I never met a redhead I could trust,"  Lauren, just because we have some of the same parts.

 

I don't care about germs, but I would be disgusted to eat spaghetti that a bunch of other people had been slurping over.  Those pasta sauce commercials that show babies covered in the sauce to make its seem good have the opposite effect on me.

[blackwing]

Such a poorly designed immunity idol clue.  I like the fact that it was hidden in plain sight but it would have been much better if the idol had been better hidden.  If they are going to make it so a good majority of people are likely going to see the clue, at least make the task of finding the idol one that probably necessitated cooperation.  If the clue had been one like the one where it led to a key tied to a tree high above that needed to be poked out with a long stick (the one that Tai did get on his own but Scott and Kyle bullied that one girl out of).. there's no way the Queen of Smug or Walking Skeleton could have ever gotten it.  Would have made for a much more interesting dynamic to see if any others cooperated with each other.  

If Cole knew that those two were talking about it, why didn't he just beeline right for it?  They already knew about it.  Aren't there any rules about physically restraining another player?  Chrissy was digging, Cole was digging in the same spot and then Ben comes in and it looked to me like he was trying to pull Cole away.

I loathe Ben.  At this point, I think I would prefer Skeleton to win.   At least he is the one masterminding the moves.

[cooksdelight]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

So why would Ben be insulted at the suggestion that he swore on the Marines?

If you know a Marine or have one in your family, you’ll understand. It’s not like swearing on the Bible, or on your mother’s grave... it’s vastly different. It’s a tight brotherhood, bond, like no other.

[jay741982]

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

On this sort of season you say to yourself "what's the worst that can happen?" and boom, you've spoiled yourself for the whole episode.  Yet another woman going home?  Ryan getting an idol?  Gross "reward"?  Check check check.  Also when Cole says "If I can win immunity it could change the game for me," just before the commercial break, you know a) he will win immunity and b) it won't change the game for him.  Though it should have, thanks to Lauren's advantage, except for another worst thing happening, Dr. Mike getting handed the reins to screw his erstwhile tribe over with, and smirking smugly from the bench like the douchebag in schlub's clothing that he is.  I'm surprised neither that he realized how weird it was that they needed him, nor that he was too chickenshit to do anything with that realization.  I will say that Lauren being the one to find the advantage was both unexpected and delightful, though I fear it will not work out for her in the end -- even Officer Sarah's advantage didn't really work out, despite the fact that she won the game. 

I can't say I ever saw what you guys see in Desi -- she was pretty much a boring nothing -- but then if she was edited like she was actually there, that might not have been the case.  But it's crazy how quickly the women have been eliminated in this season.  That's two newbie seasons in a row with this sort of voting pattern, and it's freaking me out.

The team of huge superfit dudes winning was no surprise, but that was one of those anti-rewards that you hope and pray to lose.  Not quite on a Brenda-in-Caramoan level, but very, very bad.  It was bad in every way -- extra levels of stress with social disaster on the line, disgusting food you can't even pig out on for pure calories, terrible company, and, it turns out, a clue that most of the people are going to see, so screwing the first eater out of everything.  Then you get hapless Cole, trying to hide the clue (which is to be fair good thinking) by moving a heaping plate of spaghetti onto a cloth, and weirdly Chrissy not finding this suspicious apparently because she still thinks she's the first to find the clue...and then did Joe find it strange that they would provide a cloth of spaghetti, instead of a plate?? 

Sorry man, I don't see how else it can possibly go.

I thought so too at first and was like "what a terrible way to do that, she could vote herself off by accident" but then nope, it was Desi who voted for her for some reason.  I honestly have no idea.  Presumably we'll find out in the exit interviews.  Did she know Cole and Mike were flipping and just voted for whoever?  I can't understand why she and Joe wouldn't vote for the same person.

Gotta root for Chrissy, though I'm not sure she can win it with the edit she's getting.  Not the smug confessionals or whatever -- villain winners can be as smug as they like -- but the emphasis on her being overheard while whispering conspiratorily.  That looks like incompetence, and they don't make winners look incompetent.

But please Survivor gods, not Ryan or Mike.  Anyone but them.

I gotta root for Chrissy Alright TO GET A DELICIOUS BLINDSIDE 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, alexa said:

After the last couple of seasons with the constant changes and switchups and surprises, this season is boring me to tears.  Every time someone leaves it seems it is someone I actually like, leaving me with fewer and fewer ones I like.  I don't understand half of their votes, they don't really seem to be doing anything interesting, I still hardly know any of them, ugh.

I don't get who's a healer versus hustler versus hero.  That's the biggest issue for me.  So I'm missing all the intrigue.  

At least when you look at a Millennial you can be pretty sure who is a Millennial versus Gen X.  I can read what category these people are supposed to be and then forget it immediately.  

Edited November 16, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[JudyObscure]

9 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

If you know a Marine or have one in your family, you’ll understand. It’s not like swearing on the Bible, or on your mother’s grave... it’s vastly different. It’s a tight brotherhood, bond, like no other.

Different how, then? Are you saying the Marine Corp is vastly more sacred to them than  God, their own mothers or their own children?    If so then -- ugh.

[ProfCrash]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Ben just wanted to be offended over the Marine thing.  People on this show swear on their families all the time so the idea seems to be to name something that is precious to them.  So why would Ben be insulted at the suggestion that he swore on the Marines?  So he can talk about his service a little more, his huge sacrifice, and, well just how amazing a hero he is for, as he said in the first episode, "putting my life on the line for others."  Heroes are great.  Heroes who can't quit talking about how wonderful they are, while their eyes fill with tears and faint tones of bulges sound in the distance?  Less great. 

I also wish they would all quit talking strategy with, "We have two hustlers and three healers against three heroes," because  I don't know who they're talking about.

I'm just feeling bitter about Desi being voted out and the nastiest food reward ever.

 

3 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

If you know a Marine or have one in your family, you’ll understand. It’s not like swearing on the Bible, or on your mother’s grave... it’s vastly different. It’s a tight brotherhood, bond, like no other.

Especially the Marines who are in the infantry. The Marines are unique to the American military. They are small and see themselves as elite. Their boot camp is longer then all the other boot camps and focuses on cultural indoctrination and less on skills. Marines will develop the necessary skills to do their jobs after boot camp, boot camp is for making Marines. Recruits are Recruits, they are not allowed to use the word I. It is always "This Recruit". They learn the history of the Corp and how the Corp expects them to behave. The Marines are proud that they do not take draftees, when there is a draft. And the Marines who end up in the Infantry are even more hard core. A Marine who has seen combat is something entirely else. We know that Ben has PTSD from his tours during the wars so I can only assume that Ben falls into the category of hard core Devil Dog and Joe knew that, which is why Joe kept pushing that button.

I don't have a problem with Joe pushing the button. I do wish that he would have backed off a bit sooner. I get that it is a game and it is allowed but I also don't like when people intentionally push into personal matters. Once you get the reaction you want, back off. It is not that different then Paul and the BB House constant attempts to piss off Cody and get Cody to through a punch. It is the same reasoning and logic. The real difference is that no one else jumped in to help Joe. But using someone's personal demons against them is unnecessary. It is different when it is someone like Tony who constantly was swearing on stuff, then it is fair game. But making shit up about something that you know is really important to them and that they didn't do crosses a line.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I can't say I ever saw what you guys see in Desi -- she was pretty much a boring nothing

Beautiful with a subtle and calm personality.  Her closest ally was Joe and even though they are very different she dealt with it well.  She strangely always looked like a model in a magazine instead of someone dirty and gross on an island without a shower, and she was the only minority left.  I think if people can care about women leaving the show, I think caring about minorities leaving is just as valid.

Also a comment upthread about how Joe is super unlikeable, eh I find him quite likeable to be honest.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[NeverLate]

21 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

If you know a Marine or have one in your family, you’ll understand. It’s not like swearing on the Bible, or on your mother’s grave... it’s vastly different. It’s a tight brotherhood, bond, like no other.

I suspected it was. He has PTSD, or had, and he knows his triggers. Kudos to him for apologising to Joe.

17 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't get who's a healer versus hustler versus hero.  That's the biggest issue for me.  So I'm missing all the intrigue.  

I gave up trying to remember.lol.

[Kerri Okie]

8 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

 

I don't have a problem with Joe pushing the button. I do wish that he would have backed off a bit sooner. I get that it is a game and it is allowed but I also don't like when people intentionally push into personal matters. Once you get the reaction you want, back off. 

Agree. It was a clever lie, but Joe should have quit while he was ahead. There's pushing to the point of gameplay, and then there's pushing it beyond just for the sake of pushing it.  I don't really get the reaction toward Ben though. He, like everyone else, is tired, hungry, and stressed.  His buttons were pushed, he overreacted. He owned it, he apologized for it.  It's a lot more than many others have done. Personally, I give him credit for being man enough to do that.

[ProfCrash]

I liked Desi. I like the quiet players who appear to be playing. Desi had an active alliance with Joe and was shown working with him on multiple occasions. She is not loud but she is good at challenges. She was not causing drama but playing what looked to be a good under the radar game. She is well spoken and calm. I would far prefer that we see Desi's game to Joe or Ben's game. But then people would complain that the season is boring because god forbid the Producers focus on the players playing the quiet game and working more in the background. Better to show Joe and Ben.

Chrissy and Ryan are playing a solid game. They have a good alliance, are not stirring up to much crap at camp and seem to be pulling the strings of the more overt Ben.

Lauren is intriguing to me. She has a tight alliance with Ben and has made some good moves. She has worked to get out the people she doesn't like and seems to not be rocking to boat too badly.

[Lamima]

6 hours ago, Nashville said:

You and me both.  Of the remaining contestants, Devon remains one of my favorites.

 

 

Personally, I found the way tonight's vote shook out to be delicious.  :>

1. After the last TC, the lines appeared - on the surface, anyway - to be drawn along original Tribal alliances: 4 Healers (Cole, Desi, Joe, Mike) vs. a 7-strong coalition of 4 Heroes (Ashley, Ben, Chrissy, JP) + 3 Hustlers (Devon, Lauren, Ryan).  The Heroes+Hustlers alliance appeared to be primarily a marriage of convenience for the sole purpose to leveling off the then-5-strong Healers, however - the fragility of which which could give the Healers hope for the next TC, once leveled down to the point of not being an obvious overwhelming voting bloc.
2. Joe knew the idol-shy 7-strong might be paranoid enough to split their votes, which would present as a 4-3 vote on their part.  This presented - on Joe's mind, at least - an opportunity for the remaining 4 Healers: an en masse bloc vote by the remaining Healers would at least force a 4-4-3 tie, and convincing at least one of the seven to flip at TC would give the Healers a 5-3-3 or 5-4-2 win.
3. The result, however, ended up being Joe's worst nightmare.  Not only did Joe not succeed in flipping at least one vote among either Heroes or Hustlers, he actually lost ground.  The en masse Healer voting bloc (upon which Joe's plan depended) disintegrated - two Healers (Mike and Cole) defected, crossed lines to join the coalition, and voted against Joe.
4. The only significance of Desi's vote (the single vote against Lauren) was to show how far out of the loop Desi was with her own group; she obviously wasn't informed of any coordinated TC vote plan, so Desi just threw out a random pick.  Which doesn't speak well for Joe's coordinating skills within his own group.

End result being: Desi is voted off the Island, Joe is now a coalition of one, everybody on the planet knows Joe doesn't have an idol to play, and at least two people (Ryan and Chrissy) know Joe will continue to be idol-less at the next TC as well - which made Desi (the stronger Challenge competitor of the two) an easy pick this time around.  

I think Desi voted Lauren because she suspected Joe was going home and she kinda didn't mind that. So she wasn't going to help their block of 4. I think she thought the other block would vote 4 Joe and 3 her and their block would vote 3 Ben so she threw to Lauren thinking and hoping Joe would go and she wouldn't be a vote for him to go. If she had voted Joe she would still be there and Mr Obnoxious would be at Ponderosa.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Lamima

[Lamima]

Adding that Desi also was unaware of Lauren's advantage.

[Rachel RSL]

9 hours ago, TVFan1 said:

 It's quite clear all of the horrible people are getting close to the end.

I honestly don't think there's anybody even remotely close to what I would consider "horrible" this season. Everybody is just so middle-of-the-road. Chrissy & Ryan are both playing good, strategic games and I haven't seen either of them treat anybody really badly on a personal level. The closest this season has to a villain is probably Joe and, at most, he's mildly annoying.

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I can't say I ever saw what you guys see in Desi -- she was pretty much a boring nothing -- but then if she was edited like she was actually there, that might not have been the case. 

I'm with you. Desi was very pretty and seemed like a nice person but, in terms of the game, she wasn't a great strategic player and she was boring.

1 hour ago, green said:

I am.  I see absolute zero evidence that Chrissy hates women.  Each voting choice she has made has been logical and analytical and in her best interests.  And she hasn't engineered that choice all the time either.  It is often a group decision.  Last week it was Ryan that suggested Jessica remember. 

Thank you! I very clearly saw a scene where there were three people sitting around, discussing who to target so how is it that only Chrissy gets accused of hating women? 

33 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

If you know a Marine or have one in your family, you’ll understand. It’s not like swearing on the Bible, or on your mother’s grave... it’s vastly different. It’s a tight brotherhood, bond, like no other.

That was one of the scenes that made me dislike Ben even more than I already do. He was being a big old drama queen, claiming that he never "swore" on the Marines. Semantics, buddy. Joe said that he had been paraphrasing and that Ben may not have used the actual phrase "I swear on the Marines" but he often implied it by saying things like "As a Marine..." etc.  

[blackwing]

9 minutes ago, Lamima said:

I think Desi voted Lauren because she suspected Joe was going home and she kinda didn't mind that. So she wasn't going to help their block of 4. I think she thought the other block would vote 4 Joe and 3 her and their block would vote 3 Ben so she threw to Lauren thinking and hoping Joe would go and she wouldn't be a vote for him to go. If she had voted Joe she would still be there and Mr Obnoxious would be at Ponderosa.

Why would that be better for her then?  Just so she can get booted the next round?  It would have been nice if we had seen on air why the 4 healers broke apart.  The only thing we saw was Mike contemplating defecting.  If they had stuck together and gotten one more (maybe JP or Ashley) then with Lauren's non-vote then Ben is gone.  They should have appealed to JP and Ashley's passive nature that the two of them were on the bottom and that Ben would cut them.  Especially JP, who is a physical threat.

[ProfCrash]

I think that the healers see that they are the targets and are looking for ways to save their individual games. I don't think that the remaining healers were particularly connected. Joe and Desi were allied but I don't remember Mike being a part of their alliance, I do remember Joe painting a target on Mike. Cole was not tight with any of the other three, his main ally was voted out last week. So you had a group of folks who technically had numbers but were never really working together. I can see why they would move to protect their individual games. They can work with the group in the majority and look for cracks in that group and see if they can advance farther in the game or they can stay loyal to their original tribe and be voted out.

Joe made a comment to Desi that he did not flip as she was leaving, so he knows that there were votes that Desi and Joe were not counting on. It did appear that Joe and Desi were not on the same page as to who they should vote for.

[Special K]

When Joe was needling and provoking Ben and wouldn't stop and seemed really pleased with himself, all I could think was he must be one helluva parole officer.  Can you imagine?  Healer, my ass.   He seems like the kind of guy who would just LOVE to send you back inside.  I understand why Ben was offended, but he did take the self-righteousness a bit too far. OTOH, everyone is self-righteous these days.  And he did apologize.  I think he know Joe played him to sow chaos.

I liked Desi and think she was a great potential contestant but she sealed her fate -- she even said "I hope Joe knows what he's doing" like she was ride-or-die with Joe and wasn't really thinking for herself.  Why didn't she hustle with the Hustlers/Heroes?  They worked to recruit Mike, why didn't she try an angle?  Also I was mildly annoyed by her exit interview, (I'm paraphrasing), "I don't do losing."   Great, well, now you do.  Join the rest of the human race.

The whole Idol gambit under the flag had me LOLing.  I loved that whole thing, it was hilarious.

I wish there had been more sauce on that spaghetti. That was my big issues, I don't really care about the germ transfer.  And good for Ryan to hiding that plate.  It was kind of funny, seeing the "hiding" instinct develop into more sophisticated manifestations with each person, like watching evolution at work.  Which would put Ryan at the top of the evolutionary tree.  :)

Chrissy needs to keep a lid on things.  This is the second episode she was attempting to talk sotto voce in a group setting.  It doesn't even matter if people can't hear exactly what you're saying, they know you're plotting.  Not that smart. Or maybe she's arrogant.

I hope Lauren can stay in the game.  I really like her.  Also still on the Chrissy, Ryan, Mike, Ben, Devon train.  Ashley maybe too, but we haven't seen much of her.  Actually that's kind of a high percentage of who's left.  I guess the only ones I'd rather not win are Cole, JP, and Joe.

[djlynch]

12 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

That happened recently right?  That's how Cirie was bounced?  Everyone was safe except her?

Pretty much. I also swear I remember another situation where there were two alliances with equal numbers, idols were played, the tiebreaker vote deadlocked, and someone went home because they would have been the only person eligible to draw rocks.

4 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Question for those who like to freeze-frame and read rules: did Lauren have to use her advantage this vote, or could she have saved it for later?  For example, a time when they weren't splitting and Probst wouldn't read all the votes because the majority would have been reached (you know, when he says "That's 5, that's enough" and doesn't read the rest.)  I know Lauren said she had to use it this time, but I was wondering if she was right about that.

Didn't freeze frame it, but I remember that the part she read out loud mentioned "at the next tribal council," which I assume means that it was a "now or never" kind of thing.

[zscore]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

...she (Desi) was the only minority left.  

Joe is Dominican.

[Wouldofshouldof]

13 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

No one else thought about hiding that plate except him

(Raises hand) I did : )

[fishcakes]

After a couple of pretty good seasons, I guess we were due for a dud, but damn. This season is like Nicaragua levels of bad for me with the unlikable players and pointless twists. I cannot stand Chrissy (smug and full of herself), Ben (self-righteous), and Ryan (reptilian); I don't like Cole (stupid and filthy) or Mike (creepy and filthy); I am completely indifferent to JP and Ashley, who both might as well be mannequins or cardboard cutouts for the extreme amount of nothing they bring to the game; I kind of like Devon, Joe, and Lauren, but I would be surprised if any of them won. Devon and Lauren are mostly followers (though Lauren did show some independence in not giving up her advantage to guarantee Ben's safety) and Joe has alienated everyone.

Chrissy is not nearly as smart a player as she thinks she is. Ryan barked at her to fill up the hole after he got the HII and she jumped right on that. Everyone is watching first Ryan and then Chrissy dig around immediately after returning from a reward challenge so they might as well just tell everyone, "hey, one of us has an idol, why don't you flush it and vote one of us out?" I get that Ryan wanted to get to the idol before Cole, but if Chrissy hadn't tipped off Cole that they knew about it with all her obvious whispering, then he might have been able to pick a better time than when the entire tribe is right there. And Chrissy jumping in to try to hide what was already obvious doesn't benefit her at all. If Ben didn't hate Cole so much that he put the target on him, Ryan and Chrissy would be exposed.

Jeff said the reward was being served "family style," but that's only true if their families have a lot of silverware but only one plate so they eat one at a time and alone. The communal spaghetti was disgusting, and it was intended to be disgusting. If it hadn't been, the reward would have been a platter of fried chicken pieces or cheeseburgers, rather than a food that people suck up, bite off, and let fall back on the plate. At least Devon had the good manners to cut a portion off the end and just eat from that portion, but no one else did. By the time Joe got there, it was probably just the remaining bits of noodles that had been in four other people's mouths.

LOL at Devon's, "I don't want to be a slug. I am a live! love! laugh! guy," and Peachy's, "OMG this is so beautiful."