S02.E04: Still There

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Oh.my.God.  Sick Jack shovelling tirelessly in pain so they can get rid of the fucking racist beyotch.  And Kevin coming out to help.

I LOVE JACK. 

I dunno - healthy Rebecca could have done the same thing. I sure as hell would have.

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

I'm not sure why people think that Kate's pregnancy is going to lessen her focus on her weight.  She knew she was pregnant the entire episode and was not eating muffins and exercising 12 times a day.  I would think this is going to hyperfocus her, because now she's not just trying to get healthy for herself, but for her baby also.  And, the baby's going to sabotage her weight loss.  And want her to eat.  Selfish little baby.

I think she suspected she was pregnant - but didn't know until she after she went to the drug store (where they misdirected us by putting the "Weight Loss Aids" sign in focus).

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I was born in '93 and I ended up getting chicken pox when I was two along with my sister for the exact same reason. I think that was around the time of the chicken pox vaccination. 

Daughter! LOL. When my daughter, who was born in 93, was getting ready for Kindergarten, my husband and I were having a fairly intense discussion (I was pro, he was hesitant) about whether to vaccinate her with the new chicken pox vaccine (which had been in use in Japan for something like 20 years iirc), when she came in complaining about all of the bug bites she had. Sure enough - chicken pox. That ended the discussion. 

Somewhere during that time I read an article that said a house full of siblings tend to get worse cases, because of continual exposure to the virus. I don't like the idea, ever, of deliberately exposing children to disease - because you never know whether or not it will become a serious case.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Clanstarling

[monakane]

I hate Toby.  What a controlling d-bag.  I wanted to reach through my tv and smack him.  He was totally trying to sabotage Kate.  

I love Beth.  My heart broke when Deja cut off her braids.  I'm glad they are being realistic about fostering.  I was afraid that after one bonding session with Deja everything would be ok.  Foster children often times have dealt with a lot of trauma and abuse that isn't easily overcome.  I like that they are showing that.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Drapers4thWife said:

The best part was when they realized the fitted sheet went the other way. My spouse and I do that every time! I think I'll go on Shark Tank with a freakin' labeled sheet and make a million dollars. 

Heh, I totally related to that moment too. I can't tell you how many times I've thought the sheets go one way and then they go the other way. There's an easy fix that I keep meaning to do but never get around to - sew an X in one of the corners. Just make sure you decide ahead of time which corner it corresponds to (head or foot of the bed, right or left side of the bed). If you're too sewing impaired for that, just stick a safety pin in the designated corner.

[PRgal]

11 hours ago, Packerbrewerbadger said:

My daughter is the triplet's age and she got chicken pox in 5 th grade along with a lot of classmates ( no vaccine then).  2 weeks later, my 2nd grade son got them along with everyone in his class with a older sibling ( or maybe it was reversed) but either way chicken pox is very contagious and easing the itching is very difficult!

I was "old" to get it too - 11, back in 1990.  Most kids would have had it by that age, so some of the other kids didn't believe me - one boy said I disappeared for a week because I had an awful case of pimples.  My husband got it in his 30s!!!  Never had it as a child.  

[laurakaye]

39 minutes ago, marny said:

I hate to be a nitpicker (who am I kidding— I love to be a nitpicker), but where did Kevin get that football video from? He was staying at Toby’s place, so it’s not like Toby would have it lying around. Does he just carry it in his bag all the time in case he needs to wallow? 

You are clearly focusing too much on silly details because you're not crying enough.  This is just one of many details this show has glossed over because...I don't know, the writers think we aren't really paying attention?  I have no idea.

 

8 minutes ago, monakane said:

I hate Toby.  What a controlling d-bag.  I wanted to reach through my tv and smack him.  He was totally trying to sabotage Kate.  

I don't buy this relationship at all, I have never seen chemistry between him and Kate, and seriously - the guy puts a muffin on top of the television where Kate is exercising??  Who does that?  I don't care if he baked it out of oxygen and spinach, what he did there - and what he has done in the past - is actually pretty mean-spirited.  And then there was the way he looked at her after she asked him if she could please turn her video back on...my first thought was he's scared that she'll lose weight and leave him.  But now she's pregnant, so........I just cannot buy these two as a couple at all.

Edited October 18, 2017 by laurakaye

[SimoneS]

I don't agree with any of the negative comments about Kate's pregnancy. I highly doubt that the baby will become an afterthought although it won't be focus of all of Toby and Kate's stories. On Thirtysomething, Hope's pregnancy drove her story with Micheal for a while and after Janie was born, she influenced much of their decisions about their marriage and future. One of my favorite episodes was when they decided to draw up a will and spent most of the episode debating who should be her guardian if anything happened to them.  I expect the same quality stories for Kate and Toby with This is Us. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by SimoneS

[JudyObscure]

I really didn't understand why Jack and Rebecca let the racist grandmother get away with treating Randall like that for ten years.  About the time the second basketball present came along, or the second time she called the kids, "the twins and Randall,"  there would have been a long, quiet talk saying, it was very hurtful and either she learn to  treat all the children the same or the family couldn't be around her anymore.

Rebecca waited too long to speak up and then didn't give her mother a chance to change.  I have no sympathy for the "times were different," excuse, the  generation who could use that died off already, but she was obviously not self-aware and should have been warned before the ax fell.

I really think the kids should have been sheltered from the entire thing.  Randall loved his grandmother and didn't realize that she didn't love him back.  Why hurt him so much?  Why not keep that delusion while he's little, with vague reasons for why she doesn't come around much anymore? He's going to experience enough racism in his life without learning that his own grandmother is against him. I thought the, " Let's all get together and shun Grandma for hidden racism," thing was a difficult and mixed message -- much too hard for ten year-old children to understand. 

[kili]

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I hate to be a nitpicker (who am I kidding— I love to be a nitpicker), but where did Kevin get that football video from? He was staying at Toby’s place, so it’s not like Toby would have it lying around. Does he just carry it in his bag all the time in case he needs to wallow? 

Maybe he or Kate had the videos converted from VHS to digital and uploaded them to the cloud? Kate is fairly organized, so I can see her doing something like that with their old tapes before they degraded too far. They are likely converted to at least DVD because few people have VHS players or anything that would play the little tapes it would have originally been recorded on. The local thrift store has a sign up stating they won't take old VHS movies - you can't give them away (unless you find a Disney collector).

Quote

my first thought was he's scared that she'll lose weight and leave him.

I felt that he was getting worried that she was over-doing it. Even though she has a lot of weight to lose, it is dangerous to lose weight too quickly and can lead to long-term bad habits. I actually thought she'd gone into the drug store to buy laxatives to speed up the weight loss process (that was also on the sign they panned to). I'm glad she's working with the doctor because it's a balancing act to make sure she's getting fit while also making sure the baby is getting enough nutrition. 

I thought it was interesting that her Grandma gave her a "goal dress" and she's still doing that today. Things that happen when we are a kid stick with us. Like Jack teaching Kevin he has to ignore pain because he's a man. And that even when sick, its his job to go shovel the drive even though Rebecca was totally healthy and is the one who wanted Mom out of the house.

Randall needs to remember he had a choice about becoming a foster parent...Deja did not have a choice about becoming a foster kid. He needs to be there for her and not push it so hard. I can't believe that he told her he had a nervous breakdown. The kid probably has no idea what that means and it sounds scary. Give her options and let her come to you. Don't crowd her. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by kili

[Conotocarious]

I definitely don't think the pregnancy storyline is a desperation tactic the way it is with other shows. Face it, people get pregnant all the time. This definitely doesn't seem like the kind of show that's going to use it for the zany delivery scene and then a suddenly 5 year old moppet spewing precocious one-liners.

[SimoneS]

3 minutes ago, kili said:

I felt that he was getting worried that she was over-doing it. Even though she has a lot of weight to lose, it is dangerous to loose weight too quickly and can lead to long-term bad habits. I actually thought she'd gone into the drug store to buy laxatives to speed up the weight loss process (that was also on the sign they panned to. I'm glad she's working with the doctor because it's a balancing act to make sure she's fit and make sure the baby is getting enough nutrition. 

I saw the scene as Toby worried about Kate also. Toby realized that something was going on and was being supportive, positive, and reassuring. I also thought she was going to buy the laxatives.

Edited October 18, 2017 by SimoneS

[Scarlett45]

8 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I really didn't understand why Jack and Rebecca let the racist grandmother get away with treating Randall like that for ten years.  About the time the second basketball present came along, or the second time she called the kids, "the twins and Randall,"  there would have been a long, quiet talk saying, it was very hurtful and either she learn to  treat all the children the same or the family couldn't be around her anymore.

Rebecca waited too long to speak up and then didn't give her mother a chance to change.  I have no sympathy for the "times were different," excuse, the  generation who could use that died off already, but she was obviously not self-aware and should have been warned before the ax fell.

I really think the kids should have been sheltered from the entire thing.  Randall loved his grandmother and didn't realize that she didn't love him back.  Why hurt him so much?  Why not keep that delusion while he's little, with vague reasons for why she doesn't come around much anymore? He's going to experience enough racism in his life without learning that his own grandmother is against him. I thought the, " Let's all get together and shun Grandma for hidden racism," thing was a difficult and mixed message -- much too hard for ten year-old children to understand.

I disagree with this the bolded portion. Black children learn very early that the world isn't fair, and that you will be treated differently because of your race. Most black kids know that by 4-5 much less 10 years old. As white parents raising a black child I do think Jack and Rebecca had to be sure these jabs didn't slide. Randall should know that Grandma's behavior isn't okay in his own home because he WILL get that from the outside world  home is the one place he shouldn't have to worry about dealing with attitudes like that. 10 years old is more than old enough to understand the nuances, which I think the fact that Randall missed them is testiment to being raised in a loving home but also being raised by white parents. The microaggressions just don't register with him yet despite his intelligence.

While I don't agree, I understand why Rebecca the behavior slide as long as she did. That is her mother and the behavior wasn't directly mean or spiteful or cruel. Racism and colorism exists between family members and yeah it can be really painful for everyone involved. But I'm glad Rebecca stood up for her son. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Scarlett45

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

I don't really get the point of Sophie whenever she's on, I'm all oh yeah, her... since she hasn't really interacted with any non kevin kids yet I'm just not that invested.

The actress is pregnant so I'm guessing we won't see a lot of her until a few months after the baby is born. So probably next season. 

Quote

Thanks to other posters for reminding me how annoying Jack's petty jealousy of actors was at the video store. Yes, Jack, if you rent Look Who's Talking, your wife is going to leave you for John Travolta. Ironic that Jack's son went on to become a hot actor.

I don't look at it as jealousy, but more like insecurity. I know that doesn't make it less annoying, but to me, more understandable. 

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I really didn't understand why Jack and Rebecca let the racist grandmother get away with treating Randall like that for ten years.  About the time the second basketball present came along, or the second time she called the kids, "the twins and Randall,"  there would have been a long, quiet talk saying, it was very hurtful and either she learn to  treat all the children the same or the family couldn't be around her anymore.

Sadly, this is very realistic to real life. Even older people can be afraid of their parents or in-laws, scared to stand up to them, or gotten too used to their behaviour from a young age. What Rebecca said to her resonated with me, the part about how her mother didn't say anything mean to Randall's face, but it was those little comments that built up.

This doesn't quite match up to the level of this situation, as there's no racial issues involved, but my mother has clashed with my father's mother for decades. When my sister and I were younger, there was clear favoritism on how my grandmother treated me compared to my sister, and my mother took notice. But there was so little she could do because of my grandmother's very headstrong and stubborn personality, similar to Rebecca's mother (although my grandmother and I have finally patched up our issues within the last few years, so we're on a better path where I don't feel like she hates me). It can be hard to stand up to parents or in-laws. Rebecca's been treated like an inferior being by her mother her entire life, and I think that it was even harder when the kids came into the picture. I think Rebecca found it easier to just not have her mother in their lives, or at least limit those visits. But Rebecca also wanted her children to not be cut off from her side of the family completely, because that seems to have happened with Jack's side. It's a tenuous decision, one that Rebecca clearly struggled with for 10 years. It does seem like Rebecca didn't let her kids visit their grandmother all that much besides holidays. 

Is it fair to do that to Randall, to make him feel like he's worthless to his grandmother? Absolutely not, but that's realistic. And the bigger problem is that Rebecca's mother did it covertly. She still treated Randall fine and she didn't say anything too bad to his face, but it was the way she did it, her attitude, and the actions she used that made it noticeable. We've seen Rebecca try to tell her mother off, but she's never quite been able to do it until this particular episode. And who knows if her mother will even try to change? We saw her attempt a conversation with Randall at the end, but her racism still runs deep, as evident by Rebecca's story about their maid, and it's unlikely to be an easy and quick road to recovery and forgiveness. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Almost forgot to mention how Toby, who I am normally okay with, tries to sabotage Kate.  CLASSIC attempt to distract her and MISINFORM her.  It's common for people who are not well read about nutrition to warp the facts about food.  I'm not sure what diet he's talking about where muffins are okay.  And just because a food item is organic and has natural ingredients, doesn't make it low calorie or healthy.  HOW can you be engaged to a morbidly obese person and not educate yourself on nutrition and eating disorders?  I suppose it's common IRL, so, I have to accept that Toby is that way.  Hmm....I won't like it though. 

[Jenniferbug]

I didn't like this episode. Not because there was anything wrong with it necessarily, but I don't think I like any of the plot lines it's setting up.

I'm tired of pill addictions on shows and I wish they would think of something different to do with Kevin. If anyone should be having a surprise baby, I think it should be him and Sophie (the actress is pregnant). They could deal with what it means that they're exes finding their way back to each other and now there'sa baby on the way. Would they get married again? What about his job taking him away frequently? Kevin seems to be the one who has dealt with Jack's death the least so I think they could have used that too if he were suddenly faced with fatherhood. Plus they'd have back story for them- did they want kids before when they were married, etc? Instead we get a pill addiction story which seems overdone.

I don't like Kate being pregnant. I think she had enough going on with the weight loss and I would have preferred to see more focus on her establishing herself in a real career and planning a wedding. It seems like they wrote in a pregnancy as a cover for the actress not losing more weight, and I think there were other direction to go with her chapter at this point. Maybe she and Toby could have struggles with weight related infertility in a season or two. 

I'm not liking the Deja foster kid story either. I appreciate that they're showing a more realistic depiction of her not immediately fitting in or bonding with the family, but it stresses me out to watch. I fear they're going to reveal that she was raped or sexually abused, and I don't want the show to go quite that dark. 

I did like everything about the flashback portion of the episode so that's something.

[Blakeston]

18 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Rebecca waited too long to speak up and then didn't give her mother a chance to change.  I have no sympathy for the "times were different," excuse, the  generation who could use that died off already, but she was obviously not self-aware and should have been warned before the ax fell.

I really think the kids should have been sheltered from the entire thing.  Randall loved his grandmother and didn't realize that she didn't love him back.  Why hurt him so much?  Why not keep that delusion while he's little, with vague reasons for why she doesn't come around much anymore? He's going to experience enough racism in his life without learning that his own grandmother is against him. I thought the, " Let's all get together and shun Grandma for hidden racism," thing was a difficult and mixed message -- much too hard for ten year-old children to understand. 

I think Rebecca is giving her mother a chance to change. The final scene gave me the impression that she isn't being cut out of their lives entirely.

And I think they were trying to shelter Randall from her racism. The only reason he found out about it was because he came downstairs unexpectedly when Rebecca was telling her mother off.

I have to call bullshit on the grandmother's claim that she's been trying. If she's been trying, why didn't she spare a second earlier in the episode to look at Randall's awesome-sounding Rube Goldberg machine?

I think her idea of "trying" was remembering to bring a gift for him as well as the "twins," and stopping herself from using the n-word in his presence.

[Drapers4thWife]

48 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

1. Randall does not recognize proper boundaries with Deja. I suppose that's just how it's been written.  But, I would think that a man of his intellect and sensitivity would realize that revealing details about your metal health breakdowns, might frighten a child and cause her to wonder about your stability.  TOO MUCH INFORMATION too soon. 

I thought that was very in-character for Randall though. He suffers from severe anxiety, and his way of coping is to be a super perfectionist. As another poster mentioned, Randall has to always be perfect at whatever he tries: when he works, he's the best who works all the time and makes a ton of money. When he finds William, he has to be the perfect son who micro-manages William's illness and death process. Now he's the stay at home dad and his two daughters are already perfect and low-maintenance so he has to be the perfect foster dad. But he's never dealt with a child like Deja who's suffered such trauma and he thinks all he has to do is try, try to have fun and try to have a heart to heart and bam, they can move on! After all, growing up Randall always had Jack and Rebecca to support him, now in adulthood he has Kevin, Kate and Beth to rely on when he has a breakdown or other troubles. He doesn't know what it's like to not have family you can rely on to support you, like Deja's had to cope with. 

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

I think her idea of "trying" was remembering to bring a gift for him as well as the "twins," and stopping herself from using the n-word in his presence.

Yeah I agree. 

[ShadowFacts]

27 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I really think the kids should have been sheltered from the entire thing.  Randall loved his grandmother and didn't realize that she didn't love him back.  Why hurt him so much?  Why not keep that delusion while he's little, with vague reasons for why she doesn't come around much anymore? He's going to experience enough racism in his life without learning that his own grandmother is against him. I thought the, " Let's all get together and shun Grandma for hidden racism," thing was a difficult and mixed message -- much too hard for ten year-old children to understand. 

I didn't like the scene in the bedroom where Rebecca and Jack basically say, in front of the kids, let's get rid of Grandma.  That was not the best way to go about it.  Those are kids, not adults.  They are smart kids, they all knew Grandma was being inappropriate and not just to Randall, but do they really need the message to be 'we have a disagreeable family member/situation, let's all axe her now'?  That should have been between the adults, with the children receiving the news of why Grandma won't be around in an age-appropriate way separately.  I was kind of surprised she showed up at all, I assumed after the Pilgrim Rick episode and that phone call, that close ties were being cut.  This episode made it look like Rebecca just let it slide and made excuses about holidays.  She came in a snowstorm to help her daughter with her grandchildren, so she is still in the picture but with the simmering issues unaddressed.  That went on too long. 

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, Drapers4thWife said:

I thought that was very in-character for Randall though. He suffers from severe anxiety, and his way of coping is to be a super perfectionist. As another poster mentioned, Randall has to always be perfect at whatever he tries: when he works, he's the best who works all the time and makes a ton of money. When he finds William, he has to be the perfect son who micro-manages William's illness and death process. Now he's the stay at home dad and his two daughters are already perfect and low-maintenance so he has to be the perfect foster dad. But he's never dealt with a child like Deja who's suffered such trauma and he thinks all he has to do is try, try to have fun and try to have a heart to heart and bam, they can move on! After all, growing up Randall always had Jack and Rebecca to support him, now in adulthood he has Kevin, Kate and Beth to rely on when he has a breakdown or other troubles. He doesn't know what it's like to not have family you can rely on to support you, like Deja's had to cope with. 

I absolutely agree with you. 

 

Also Randall is a man- I think he's a little clueless to the guardedness even well adjusted much loved/supported young girls are taught to have towards strange men. Never mind Deja who's in a very vulnerable position. If Deja were too open with Randall I would suspect she thought she needed to be sexually available to him to stay safe/in the home which would be heartbreaking. 

[Drapers4thWife]

1 minute ago, Scarlett45 said:

Also Randall is a man- I think he's a little clueless to the guardedness even well adjusted much loved/supported young girls are taught to have towards strange men. Never mind Deja who's in a very vulnerable position. If Deja were too open with Randall I would suspect she thought she needed to be sexually available to him to stay safe/in the home which would be heartbreaking.

Yes, Randall is very intellectually smart but lacks the common sense or savvy of Kevin, for example, as we've seen with things like putting the ad in the paper and meeting strangers in the park, or wholeheartedly approaching strangers when he was a kid, inviting William to stay in his house with his family after knowing him for five minutes, or even drinking Kevin's director's drug smoothie in the cabin. Despite his feelings about being adopted, Randall's still extremely emotionally sensitive and to some extent was sheltered by Jack and Rebecca. He was so shy that he needed his savvier brother feeding him lines when he first approached Beth in college. So while Randall is intellectually aware of things like child abuse and the way women and girls can be treated in the real world, he's never really had to confront it. He's the son of a strong, savvy woman, married to a strong, savvy woman and his daughters live a nice upper class life in a family full of love and protective adults. His sister has weight problems but has a funny, friendly fiancee who treats her well. Even his formerly drug addicted bio father turned out to be fabulous.

[laurakaye]

11 minutes ago, Drapers4thWife said:

I thought that was very in-character for Randall though. He suffers from severe anxiety, and his way of coping is to be a super perfectionist. As another poster mentioned, Randall has to always be perfect at whatever he tries: when he works, he's the best who works all the time and makes a ton of money. 

We do know this about him, and it makes me wonder why taking in a foster child was ever a good idea for this family.  Randall needs to stop unburdening his life story onto Deja.  IMO, he's treating her more like a project, and he's trying to get an A+.  I feel like the show is attempting to give us a clumsy but warm-hearted Randall, bumbling his way through learning how to be a foster parent.  But this is also a man who suffers from anxiety, quit his job, found his biological father, took him in, and then lost him.  That he's now throwing another huge life change onto himself and his family (not to mention the foster child) seems unrealistic.  Not sure why Beth, knowing Randall's penchant for perfection, ever agreed to it in the first place - oh, that's right - Randall told her she needed to "get on board."  His demand to his wife that they would indeed, be taking on a foster child should've been a big red flag to Beth.  Never mind that she came around on the idea...I felt like she agreed to keep Randall from falling into a depression or something, not because she thought it was a wonderful, selfless idea.

[CaughtOnTape]

Oh good.  Kate's pregnant.  So she can pass on all of her victim crap to her kid.

Fabulous.

One thing I don't understand about shows like this is when they finally have characters gaining some introspection and self awareness and then they chuck it.  Kevin's pill addiction is unnecessary.  Why spend all that time on how meant to be he and Sophie are if they're just going to destroy it?  Because what's gonna end up happening is he's gonna end up stealing medication using her nurses badge or something along those lines and destroying any chance they had at happiness.  It's kind of tired trope.

I kind of liked that they showed that Randall heard the discussion between Rebecca and her mother.  Kids overhear things they shouldn't all the time.  Parents involve their kids in adult decisions all the time.  Should they?  Nope.  But at least Rebecca and Jack sat him down and discussed it in an age appropriate way.  Too many times my parents just shuffled me out of the room and let me wonder.

Edited October 18, 2017 by CaughtOnTape

[bichonblitz]

I see a miscarriage in Kate's future. The we can see how Kate and Toby handle that, will it tear them apart or bring them closer together? Will it drive Kate in to a deep depression? Will Rebecca be there for her? So many possibilities more interesting than watching Kate and Toby play mommy and daddy to a newborn. 

[Katy M]

Just now, bichonblitz said:

I see a miscarriage in Kate's future. The we can see how Kate and Toby handle that, will it tear them apart or bring them closer together? Will it drive Kate in to a deep depression? Will Rebecca be there for her? So many possibilities more interesting than watching Kate and Toby play mommy and daddy to a newborn. 

Obese people do have a higher risk of miscarriage.  But, they also have a higher risk of pre-eclampsia, so may she'll have the baby and then almost die.  Or maybe she'll have a perfectly healthy baby and it will give her a new focus on life.  Almost anything can happen.

[suzeecat]

13 hours ago, mariah23 said:

Calling it now!  A boy named Jack.

Triplets.  And one is African American. J/K ;)

[Lady Calypso]

16 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

We do know this about him, and it makes me wonder why taking in a foster child was ever a good idea for this family.  Randall needs to stop unburdening his life story onto Deja.  IMO, he's treating her more like a project, and he's trying to get an A+.  I feel like the show is attempting to give us a clumsy but warm-hearted Randall, bumbling his way through learning how to be a foster parent.  But this is also a man who suffers from anxiety, quit his job, found his biological father, took him in, and then lost him.  That he's now throwing another huge life change onto himself and his family (not to mention the foster child) seems unrealistic.  Not sure why Beth, knowing Randall's penchant for perfection, ever agreed to it in the first place - oh, that's right - Randall told her she needed to "get on board."  His demand to his wife that they would indeed, be taking on a foster child should've been a big red flag to Beth.  Never mind that she came around on the idea...I felt like she agreed to keep Randall from falling into a depression or something, not because she thought it was a wonderful, selfless idea.

Well, we do know that fostering wasn't even on Randall's mind. All he wanted was to recreate what happened to him with another newborn baby that him and Beth would adopt. It was Beth wo wanted to foster. Randall expressed his doubts, and his doubts were sound, but his reasons for wanting another kid in the first place, especially after just quitting his job and losing his biological father, did not come from a place where he should be thinking about taking in another kid. They should have scrapped the whole adopting/fostering idea completely. Beth was right in that Randall wanting to adopt was for him, not for the kid he would take in. But fostering was her idea and Randall was less than on board with it, and it's clear as to why. He can't manage this situation like he might with a newborn. This isn't a situation he's remotely prepared for. 

Fostering in general wasn't a good idea for Randall, and I'm not sure why they had Beth give this compromise instead of telling Randall that they shouldn't take in any kids just for Randall to use as a grieving process or to basically make them into a mini him, or whatever his reasons were. 

However, I do like that they're showing Randall as someone who's not prepared and very much selfish in this entire story arc. So when he does eventually get that connecting moment, it'll show Randall's growth more than Deja changing to fit Randall's needs. 

[MissT]

Can someone confirm if that is, in fact, Elizabeth Perkins who played Rebecca's mother?   I don't recall her from the first season, but maybe just wasn't paying attention.   I remember her from the move Big with Tom Hanks from the 80's. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by MissT

[memememe76]

Yes, that is Elizabeth Perkins. Besides Big, I thought she was fabulous in About Last Night. I hope we see more of her. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

This was the best episode of the season so far, in my opinion. I was engrossed in pretty much all of the stories.

To be fair, Toby has always annoyed me so I might not be giving him a fair shake but I thought his behavior towards Kate was controlling. Eat the muffin. Stop exercising. Try on the dress. Don't go to yoga. Have more sex with me. SHUT. UP. TOBY. I can't stand his constant opinions on every single thing Kate does. I can't wait to see him try to control Kate's pregnancy next. However, I did like him trying to reason with Kevin. Kevin was being nuts and needed to be called out. When the doctor tells him to RICE and he's on the treadmill, someone needs to tell him to back up. I think I'd prefer if Toby and Kevin were a couple instead of Toby and Kate.

I loved Jack and Rebecca explaining subtle racism to Kevin. I loved Rebecca trying to have a reasonable discussion with her mother and her mother saying, "I can't talk to you if you are hysterical!" I can see why Rebecca was hiding upstairs. I also loved when Rebecca's mother told Kevin he was going to go far in life with that face and Kevin says "Really?" The Little Big Three this episode were really cracking me up. The whole MLK/grandma shooting thing, Kevin's "really?" and there was a moment in the background where Kate was scratching away at herself.

The Deja story was very well done. Great acting by Randall, Beth and Deja. Beth's face when Deja walked into the kitchen was heartbreaking. It was very self destructive of Deja to chop off the braids she loved so much. She was really willing to go to great lengths to make her point to Randall and Beth. They've got their work cut out for them. It's going to take a lot of time for Deja to trust them. I hope Randall is willing to just be there as a stable presence rather than be such a try hard all the time.

[OtterMommy]

9 hours ago, debraran said:

I think someone said Toby is in computer work of some kind but they were always vague. He must work at home since he seems to always have time off. Maybe they will hone in more on him as the baby story line heats up.

I'm not sure about Toby's "job," but at least there was some explanation for him being around this time.  Didn't they say that they were doing Kevin's surgery over the weekend?  If so, assuming Toby worked normal hours, he wouldn't have been in work anyway at that time.  Of course, I don't know how Kate would have found an OB/GYN to see her on a Saturday or Sunday (or who would see her--for a second visit!--at 6 weeks).

5 hours ago, marny said:

I hate to be a nitpicker (who am I kidding— I love to be a nitpicker), but where did Kevin get that football video from? He was staying at Toby’s place, so it’s not like Toby would have it lying around. Does he just carry it in his bag all the time in case he needs to wallow? 

Please, come sit with me at the nitpick table!

I wondered about that too.  However, if Kate is living there, she probably has every shred of anything Jack ever touched so I could see that she might have the video tape.

But I really doubt she had a VHS player.  Just sayin'.

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

To be fair, Toby has always annoyed me so I might not be giving him a fair shake but I thought his behavior towards Kate was controlling. Eat the muffin. Stop exercising. Try on the dress. Don't go to yoga. Have more sex with me.

I think we were supposed to be getting the impression that Kate was overdoing with the diet and exercise. Honestly, I would have thought Toby was more of a jerk if he didn't at least try to talk to her about it.  And, I'm also not sure he was asking for sex.  I think Kate just inferred that.  She was being totally monosyllabic the whole episode and pretty much ignoring him. We find out why at the end of the epi, but Toby is completely in the dark and just knows that something is wrong.

1 minute ago, OtterMommy said:

Please, come sit with me at the nitpick table!

I wondered about that too.  However, if Kate is living there, she probably has every shred of anything Jack ever touched so I could see that she might have the video tape.

But I really doubt she had a VHS player.  Just sayin'.

I have a VHS player still.  I don't use it much, but I have it.

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

To be fair, Toby has always annoyed me so I might not be giving him a fair shake but I thought his behavior towards Kate was controlling. Eat the muffin. Stop exercising. Try on the dress. Don't go to yoga. Have more sex with me. SHUT. UP. TOBY. I can't stand his constant opinions on every single thing Kate does. I can't wait to see him try to control Kate's pregnancy next. However, I did like him trying to reason with Kevin. Kevin was being nuts and needed to be called out. When the doctor tells him to RICE and he's on the treadmill, someone needs to tell him to back up. I think I'd prefer if Toby and Kevin were a couple instead of Toby and Kate.

I can see this view, absolutely, and I've been no fan of Toby since the start. I think him and Kate don't really seem to like each other all that much, so I wonder how they've stayed a couple. But from what Toby said to Kate, it sounds like she's been going crazy about her weight and diet for the last two weeks. We know now that it was because she found out she was pregnant and she wants to be healthy for her child. She was worried about losing the baby and making it to that six week mark. But for Toby, seeing Kate suddenly throw out anything not organic, working out presumably several times a day, going to therapy and going to their weight loss class every single day, it seems like it's alarming behaviour for him. He doesn't know what's going on; all he knows is that she has a big gig coming up and she's suddenly going overboard to fit into her dress. 

So, taking that into account, he may have been handling things the wrong way, but we haven't seen what went on in our missing two week gap. I know it's been consistent behaviour with him, but since Toby's been marginally better this season, I'm trying to see things from his view. He's worried about her, and honestly, I don't blame him. She hasn't even told him about her pregnancy, which is fine if she wants to wait until she knows for sure that she's not going to miscarry or if the baby isn't even there, but he's still in the dark about what's going on. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

I think we were supposed to be getting the impression that Kate was overdoing with the diet and exercise. Honestly, I would have thought Toby was more of a jerk if he didn't at least try to talk to her about it.  And, I'm also not sure he was asking for sex.  I think Kate just inferred that.  She was being totally monosyllabic the whole episode and pretty much ignoring him. We find out why at the end of the epi, but Toby is completely in the dark and just knows that something is wrong.

That's fair. I can see we were supposed to think Kate was overdoing it. Still, Toby didn't talk to her about it, really. He just told what she should be doing instead. And yes, he did say "we're not "connecting" but put "connecting" in quotes, like it meant sex. If he meant connecting on an emotional level, he could have corrected Kate when she said they had sex 2 days ago.

[Katy M]

Just now, DoubleUTeeEff said:

That's fair. I can see we were supposed to think Kate was overdoing it. Still, Toby didn't talk to her about it, really. He just told what she should be doing instead. And yes, he did say "we're not "connecting" but put "connecting" in quotes, like it meant sex. If he meant connecting on an emotional level, he could have corrected Kate when she said they had sex 2 days ago.

OK, I didn't notice that he did the quotes.  And, I figured since he mentioned that she was checked out the whole time they were having sex, that was more of the issue than just not sex.

[marceline]

I loved the chicken pox story. Watching Rebecca putting calamine lotion on her itchy kids reminded me of when I had it. Ugh, I hated the smell of that stuff.

Young Randall is such a gem. I cracked up at "Did Grandma shoot MLK?!" but I really liked when Grandma said he was a pretty special kid and he softly said "Took you long enough." Yes sweetie. It did.

The foster story is a tough watch. I agree that Randall's perfectionism is starting to become an issue. He's dumping too much on Deja and you can feel his desperation to connect with her. It's the epitome of how people are repelled by neediness. Also, by now it should be apparent that Deja has problem with men. In fact it should've been expected. Randall needs to back the hell off and let Deja set the tone. He can concentrate on Tess and Annie. I'm beginning to wonder what training Beth and Randall got in what to expect from a foster child. I wondered the same thing when Beth tried putting away Deja's belongings last week. Sometimes they seem really intuitive and other times they seem clueless. Goodness Randall, why would you tell a girl who has been exposed to sketchy men her whole life that you've had two nervous breakdowns? One triggered by the birth of your daughter and the other only a few months ago?!! How the hell is that supposed to make her feel safe?

I LOVED all the exposure to black hair care in this ep. I kind of slowly lost it to see the same hair care products I use sitting on Deja's dresser. 

I'm hoping that we aren't getting a Kevin as addict story. I'm hopeful that this is just an intro to dealing with his clearly deep-seated grief about Jack. There's a LOT going on there.

I don't care about Kate being pregnant. I feel like it's just going to be a non-stop story about obesity in pregnancy.

[SongbirdHollow]

4 hours ago, llewis823 said:

I was an only child so I did not get chicken pox until I was 21 - about  a month or so before my wedding. lol  I only got it in my scalp and on my legs. Luckily I didn't end up with any scars and it all cleared up before my wedding. But the weird thing is - when I went to work at a hospital 4 years ago (at 49 years old) they do a test for chicken pox immunity and it said I had never had them! But I was an adult when I had them - I know for certain that I did but my blood tests showed no immunity??? So I had to have the chicken pox vaccine at 49 years old! Pretty wild, huh?

Opposite happened to me. Didn't have them that I recall as a child. Went to get vaccinated as an adult but my titer came back immune so I didn't get the shot. The immune system is the most complex thing in the human body. When we figure it out we will be set! I'm horrified by all the -ab drug commercials out there. I know they help a lot of people but I worry about all this immune suppression. 

Cosign on the need for Randall to back off. If he just quietly demonstrated what a good dad he is to his girls Deja will begin to trust him. He can't rush it. 

[scarynikki12]

15 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

But I really doubt she had a VHS player.  Just sayin'.

I have one but only for watching Star Wars: Original Recipe Trilogy.

If Kate ends up being a Star Wars fan I'll assume she has one for the same reason.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

7 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, taking that into account, he may have been handling things the wrong way, but we haven't seen what went on in our missing two week gap. I know it's been consistent behaviour with him, but since Toby's been marginally better this season, I'm trying to see things from his view. He's worried about her, and honestly, I don't blame him. She hasn't even told him about her pregnancy, which is fine if she wants to wait until she knows for sure that she's not going to miscarry or if the baby isn't even there, but he's still in the dark about what's going on. 

Yes, it's same the old same old with Toby. He's not wrong to be worried about Kate but the way he inserts himself into every decision she makes just bothers me. 

[Crs97]

Quote

Black children learn very early that the world isn't fair, and that you will be treated differently because of your race. Most black kids know that by 4-5 much less 10 years old

In the aftershow they mentioned that this discussion might have been a little late for Randall simply because he has white parents.

Regarding Toby and the muffin, I assumed she probably wasn't eating much; with all the exercising and throwing away of food I figured he thought she was starving herself.  He made the healthiest thing he could think of and wanted her at least to take a bite to know she wasn't starting an eating disorder.  Of course now that we know she is pregnant she might have been queasy in the morning and not able to eat much then.

I thought it was sad that he mentioned not connecting and she immediately assumed he was talking about sex.

I thought it was pretty rude of her to leave him to deal with her brother's after care.  Again, now we know why, but I don't blame him for being miffed.

Not only was it crazy that he had the tape of his football game on hand, the video itself was too crisp and clear.  We saw Rebecca at games last season; she wore beige to avoid taking sides between Kevin and Randall.  Where was she then?  Are we retconning that only Jack showed up?

[bichonblitz]

30 minutes ago, MissT said:

Can someone confirm if that is, in fact, Elizabeth Perkins who played Rebecca's mother?   I don't recall her from the first season, but maybe just wasn't paying attention.   I remember her from the move Big with Tom Hanks from the 80's. 

Yes, that was Elizabeth Perkins. I think a different actress played Rebecca's mother first season. I could be wrong, though. 

[Lady Calypso]

19 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Please, come sit with me at the nitpick table!

I wondered about that too.  However, if Kate is living there, she probably has every shred of anything Jack ever touched so I could see that she might have the video tape.

But I really doubt she had a VHS player.  Just sayin'.

I think the video was a little TOO good to be the original VHS tape. I remember 90s filming, and that's too good of quality. Which is why I assume Kate made it into a DVD instead.

Though I still have a VCR in my basement. I'm pretty sure it still works. 

3 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Yes, it's same the old same old with Toby. He's not wrong to be worried about Kate but the way he inserts himself into every decision she makes just bothers me. 

Oh yeah, it bothers me too. I'm surprised, though, that this particular episode didn't bother me. I was surprisingly fine with his behaviour, and now I'm questioning myself as to why I'm cool with Toby.

[Jillybean]

37 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

Yes, that is Elizabeth Perkins. Besides Big, I thought she was fabulous in About Last Night. I hope we see more of her. 

That will forever be my favorite role she has played. She stole scenes in that movie. 

[Barlowe]

14 hours ago, debraran said:

I just said that but would it be too much? lol

For Kate? No way. She'd definitely name her son Jack, I just wonder what middle name she'd go for.

[Jillybean]

21 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Yes, it's same the old same old with Toby. He's not wrong to be worried about Kate but the way he inserts himself into every decision she makes just bothers me. 

I wish I could remember where I saw the Dan Fogelmann interview where he said Toby is like this dream guy that every woman wants...or something along those lines. Apparently he thinks he has created quite the amazing boyfriend/fiance in Toby.  This was maybe in one of the EW interviews in the past couple of weeks. Do people apart from this forum love Toby?  

[DoubleUTeeEff]

4 minutes ago, Lilacly said:

For Kate? No way. She'd definitely name her son Jack, I just wonder what middle name she'd go for.

Kevin? Her two favorite men, Jack and Kevin. Sorry, Toby.

[Barlowe]

1 minute ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Kevin? Her two favorite men, Jack and Kevin. Sorry, Toby.

Now that might be too on the nose but i could see it happening. He'll definitely be the godfather though.

[Jillybean]

1 minute ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Kevin? Her two favorite men, Jack and Kevin. Sorry, Toby.

Don't you mean "Tobe?"  (cringe)

[Jodithgrace]

When Jack came down with the chicken pox, my first thought was..OMG Jack dies of chicken pox? But then I immediately realized that the timeline was wrong. I mean, it's not enough that I keep expecting a piano to fall on his head every time he walks on a sidewalk, but now I'm killing him off in the wrong time periods...

I like that they aren't solving Deja's problems in one fell swoop. It's not easy, and Randall is not being a success. Thank goodness for Beth.

Not sure how I feel about Kate's pregnancy. I just hope that Toby doesn't overreact, with over the top gestures. Please, no gigantic stuffed toys..that trope is so overdone. So far this show has done well, surprising us with less cliched reactions, but I have a bad feeling about Toby's reactions.

I am so glad that Kevin's movie seems to be going well. I was sure the knee injury was going to wreck it, but so far, so good. At least let him get done with the movie before his addiction storyline kicks in. 

[Calamity Jane]

14 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

There were no vaccinations for chicken pox back then. I'm 32 and we were the "last" generation to get chicken pox before a widely available vaccine. I had to chuckle at that scene because my mom did the same thing (stuck me and my sister together so we would have it at the same time).  

Also, whether or not it's true I have no idea, the idea everyone had was that it was better to have those diseases as a child than as an adult, so our parents did try to have us exposed if anything was going around.