S02.E04: Still There

[balmz]

decent episode

 

randall is trying too hard with deja, he's supposed to be the smart one, he should have asked what the kids would like to do, not just run into bowling like that, maybe they can find something deja likes that the others would like, also the hair part was sweet but randall could have fixed the issue about beth telling him  about deja by explaining that parents need to talk to each other about important things and that includes her because they need to be able to help her

 

kid kevin annoyed me so much

 

good on rebecca calling out her mother, what a worthless human being, using the tired excuse in my day, her generation lived through all the major social events, ww1, ww2,  the holocaust, civil rights, and she learned nothing from them and doesn't seem to have her own opinion. If it were me when the storm ended i would have told her to shovel her own way out and leave, not make jack and the kids shovel, no wonder rebecca and kate have problems, it's a circle of abuse

[Pop Tart]

Quote

I think Randall just needs to back off and let Deja be.  If she only wants to confide in Beth, then that's how it has to be for now.  She's not recoiling in fear around him anymore, but it's only been a week or so since she arrived.  She'll open up to Randall when she's ready.

What Randall did was a major mistake, one that made all the sense in the world. He’s so eager to connect with Deja that he rushes in with any little thing without stopping to think about how it will affect Deja. He’s so caught up in what he needs from the relationship that he didn’t stop to think about the fact that Deja’s conversation was with Beth alone. I like that he’s making a few mistakes here. Last year, love him as I do, I still thought he was a bit too perfect. 

Same was true of Jack last year. I’m liking that tonight it was Beth and Rebecca shining as parents.

I was surprised by Kate’s pregnancy, but pleasantly so. I’m happy to have something different for her story-wise. And I didn’t take the obsessive exercising as being just about losing weight before the baby. When she was at the doctor at the end she asked if she’d bought the right vitamins because she wants to make sure she was doing this as healthily as possible. 

[Spartan Girl]

53 minutes ago, Katy M said:

The chicken Pox vaccine didn't come out until 95.  The kids were born in '80, I think, so I guess we can let it pass that they're not vaccinating their kids with a vaccine that doesn't exist yet.

Oh ok. I wasn't aware of this. Sorry!

[Cardie]

I thought this was a strong episode, especially the flashback with Rebecca finally confronting her mother about her racism. My mom and her siblings suffered from such genteel racism and I started calling them out when I was in junior high, only to be told that I should respect my elders and not challenge them.

As someone else posted, the pregnancy storyline will give them a way to deal with Chrissy not losing so much weight. But does Kate really expect to launch a singing career while pregnant and then raising an infant?

The Deja storyline is much more nuanced than usual on tv. I'm sure she has had nothing but hurt from men and Randall needs to back off.

Not loving the Kevin/pills arc.

[AllyS]

57 minutes ago, mariah23 said:

Six weeks 

Thank you, I heard 6 months too, then the fetus the size of a lentil, and I was WTF? at 6 months! 

[pennben]

In general, I liked a lot in this episode, I two huge complaints that made me scream in anger.  

Those first:

1.  I thought Beth was lovely with the foster child, she built the trust and did the braids that gave that child confidence.  And of course, I had no problem with her talking to Randall about it, none at all.  But the fact that apparently this whole fostering thing is, in Randall's mind, still all about Randall and what he needs and not the kid, he just couldn't let the kid take her time to build trust with him to tell him something that obviously caused her great pain and embarrassment.  No, he just had to insert himself and be all "hey, I'm stressed out too, a lot, two nervous breakdowns as a matter of fact. Let me dump this on you as my way of saying I know your to-you horrifying secret that you only entrusted one person with...but you/me can be crazy stressed together"   Auggggghhhhh!!  Get your head out of your damn ass Randall.  I know we are building to a triumphant Randall moment here, but honestly, I'd kind of like it if he never gets it right since it's still just all about him.  

2.  JESUS CHRIST........ Those were the exact words (in a disappointed/are you kidding me tone)  I yelled out loud when we found out that Kate is pregnant.  Just what this show needs, an unexpected pregnancy.  This also lessens the possibility we can just be rid of Toby, who sure was fine this episode, but whatever, I have residual issues with him:)

Beyond those screaming moments, I thought they did a couple of interesting things this evening, mostly revolving around Rebecca/her mom.

1.  I know they want us to compare Rebecca/her mom and Kate/Rebecca's tense relationship.  I felt like they were going to slap us in this face this episode with a "remember when you wanted Kate to grow up when she spewed hate at Rebecca?", well, well, well,  apple/tree, look at Rebecca her mother and see Rebecca being just as needlessly spiteful.  And, while there was the residual anger/tension, it was her mother's racism that made Rebecca lose it with her mom, not the other stuff.

2.  I appreciated that the next day, her mom didn't fully deny that she treated Randall differently.  That was unexpected (by me) from this show.  She didn't admit racism, but acknowledged that there was a real issue there.  Good for you show.

Oh yeah, and Kevin is developing a drug issue.  Yawn.  

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, pennben said:

1.  I thought Beth was lovely with the foster child, she built the trust and did the braids that gave that child confidence.  And of course, I had no problem with her talking to Randall about it, none at all.  But the fact that apparently this whole fostering thing is, in Randall's mind, still all about Randall and what he needs and not the kid, he just couldn't let the kid take her time to build trust with him to tell him something that obviously caused her great pain and embarrassment.  No, he just had to insert himself and be all "hey, I'm stressed out too, a lot, two nervous breakdowns as a matter of fact. Let me dump this on you as my way of saying I know your to-you horrifying secret that you only entrusted one person with...but you/me can be crazy stressed together"   Auggggghhhhh!!  Get your head out of your damn ass Randall.  I know we are building to a triumphant Randall moment here, but honestly, I'd kind of like it if he never gets it right since it's still just all about him.  

Actually, what I love is that we are seeing that this is something that Randall is failing at. I think we're supposed to notice that he's still thinking about himself and not about Deja. Until that changes, Randall is never going to connect with Deja, especially if she is going to be with them for a while. And I appreciate that they're showing Randall failing. It's frustrating to watch, but also fascinating because it's Randall that needs to change his tactic. Deja's still a scared kid and Randall might have expectations that can't be met, like the social worker told him last episode. So, I don't think we're building to a triumphant moment for Randall, at least not in the way that keeps him stagnant and have him win over Deja with his charm and humour. I truly think that we're heading for a change with Randall where he'll find that connection that's about her, and not about fulfilling his needs. 

Ok, that's my hope. I need Randall to be the one to not talk about himself with Deja. 

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I’m still not entirely happy about this season but tonight was better.

That scene whenever Daja walked out with her braids all cut off and Beth’s face was heartbreaking. Like her heart was shattered. But.. I don’t know, I assumed Randall would have told her of what had happened and their conversation. 

Kevin is obviously not okay. I assumed that Kevin’s rewrite was him getting killed in the movie. Kevin and Kate can sure be dramatic at things. Hey Toby maybe you should think about the family you’re marrying into. 

Not sure how I feel about Kate’s pregnancy.

Hee. Okay so before the kids even opened their gifts the people I was watching with surmised that Randall was getting a basketball and so I had a good laugh when he did. Also when he asked if Grandma shot MLK. 

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to post, so I'll just quote you.

I didn't see the Kate pregnancy coming until she was at the doctor. Strange that at 6 weeks, she's already seen the doctor twice though when usually you don't know til 4 weeks. I guess the doctor saw her early because she's so high risk?

I feel so bad for Kevin.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I'm not sure why people think that Kate's pregnancy is going to lessen her focus on her weight.  She knew she was pregnant the entire episode and was not eating muffins and exercising 12 times a day.  I would think this is going to hyperfocus her, because now she's not just trying to get healthy for herself, but for her baby also.  And, the baby's going to sabotage her weight loss.  And want her to eat.  Selfish little baby.

Ugh, you are probably right. We are being overly optimistic.

[Dreamboat Annie]

Who the freak turns down a kid - any kid in the world - who offers to show you his creatively constructed Rube Goldberg machine??  Yeah.  Fucking racist beyotch does.  His grandmother.  And she's been his grandmother for 10 years.  Ten fucking years.  I refuse to hear any argument about how she's just so misunderstood.  Nor about how Rebecca takes after her or behaves any way like her. 

Rube Goldberg machine constructed and explained by your amazing and gifted grandson.  I'm all in.

[Souris]

51 minutes ago, AllyS said:

Thank you, I heard 6 months too, then the fetus the size of a lentil, and I was WTF? at 6 months! 

Ha, I had the same thought and rewound because I also heard "months" and knew that wasn't possible for a lentil-baby!

[bybrandy]

3 minutes ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Rube Goldberg machine constructed and explained by your amazing and gifted grandson.  I'm all in.

Seriously, I'd go see the Rube Goldberg machine constructed by stranger 10 year olds.  Huge geek here.

I don't think we're going to term with Kate's baby.  But I don't hate it as a story.

Kevin is an idiot but you see where it is coming from.   

I don't really get the point of Sophie whenever she's on, I'm all oh yeah, her... since she hasn't really interacted with any non kevin kids yet I'm just not that invested.

I like Toby.  I've always liked Toby but I suspect this pregnancy reveal is going to be not such a good look for Toby.  Hope I'm wrong about that.

[After7Only]

I hope in a future episode we get to hear all 3 verses of Randall's heal the boo boo antibacterial cream song.  The scene of him and Beth cracked me up.  

[Blakeston]

I liked a lot about this episode - particularly the flashbacks - but was it necessary to repeat the exact same "oh no, Kevin is using painkillers to deal with his emotional pain!" ending?

And did they really think it was necessary to show Kevin looking at the freezeframe of Jack's face before taking the pill? Is there anyone who wouldn't be able to figure out that his inability to deal with Jack's death was tied to the drug use?

[Crs97]

30 minutes ago, deaja said:

That scene whenever Daja walked out with her braids all cut off and Beth’s face was heartbreaking. Like her heart was shattered. But.. I don’t know, I assumed Randall would have told her of what had happened and their conversation. 

I assumed Randall told Beth about the conversation, but maybe they thought they had handled it.  They weren't expecting Deja to react like that.

I am confused at the comparison between Rebecca's relationship with her mom and Kate's relationship with Rebecca.  Rebecca is not even on the same hemisphere as her mother in terms of awfulness.  Apples and oranges.

[voiceover]

For the first time in this series, I was struck by how much Justin looks like Milo.  It was the moment when Kevin paused the vid, right on Jack's face -- then it cut to his reaction.  And I thought, There it is.

Yes, Randall tried too hard.  But it was the second time that Beth invaded Deja's privacy: first with the cigarettes, then by telling Randall about the alopecia.

This is not finding fault with Beth.  I understood the "unpacking", and thought the whole hair sequence was graciously done.  I'm thinking of it from Deja's perspective.  Probably because I have a tween nephew, and privacy is a big deal for him, so what we discuss, I don't repeat to his parents.

(And yesssss I get that it's different.  Just explaining why my first response was "Yikes; privacy!") 

7 minutes ago, After7Only said:

I hope in a future episode we get to hear all 3 verses of Randall's heal the boo boo antibacterial cream song.  The scene of him and Beth cracked me up.  

Yes!  It felt like the Chekhov's Gun of music.

[pennben]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I liked a lot about this episode - particularly the flashbacks - but was it necessary to repeat the exact same "oh no, Kevin is using painkillers to deal with his emotional pain!" ending?

This highlights some of my complaints about the show....they always want to "shock us"....

1.  Last episode:  Heavily implied Kevin is going to have a drug problem; early this episode, "whew", we jumped to conclusions, Kevin is fine with pain killers; end episode, oh no, fooled us again show, Kevin is indeed going to have a problem with pain killers.  Dammit, ya got me again, clever show.
2.  Last episode: Mention Kate is losing weight.  Early this episode, "oh no" she's getting obsessed about her weight, double oh-no she's doing crazy diet pills, whoops, fooled us again show, Kate is actually doing a rational diet, she is just PREGNANT.  Dammit, ya got me again, clever show.
3.  Last episode/this episode:  Randall is really, really bad as a foster parent.  Next episode, I predict that he'll have his moment with Deja.  Dammit, ya got me again, clever show.

I think this season, while not as "tissue-worthy" as the show likes to tell us all episodes are, is actually doing better storytelling, but I feel like they always want to "whammy" us, if you will. Stop that!  Just tell good stories consistently without needing to show us how clever you all are. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by pennben

[NeverLate]

Interesting,  the relationship between Rebecca and her mother, mirrors Rebecca relationship with Kate

Kate being pregnant, I just grinned. It was so great.

Love Randall, love Beth and I do love Kevin.( happy sigh) 

[memememe76]

Randall trying so hard with Deja is similar to Randall trying so hard with Racist Grandma. Except Deja is not Racist Grandma. Young Randall showing his one chicken pox broke my heart. The hair scene broke my heart. Loved the episode.

I am hoping that Racist Grandma does end up having a relationship with the Randall. 

[OtterMommy]

So, I'm watching this and it's the first episode this season that I don't find irritating.  There are some things that bug me (it feels like 2 different shows being the biggest one), but it is holding my attention and I feel like they are taking their time telling stories and then...bam!  Kate's pregnant.  I had really hoped that spoiler was a big nothingburger, but I guess not.  Even more than Kevin's addiction issues, this feels like too much right now.  You know, Kate trying to find her way in a new career (ha!) as well as navigating her relationship with Toby is actually a lot right there for one character.  Kevin trying to make it as a serious actor while balancing his renewed relationship (yet completely inert) relationship with Sophie was enough without the addiction.   

Here's my crackpot theory on all this--I think that Fogelman expected this show to be the Belle of the Ball last year and it was shown up by several streaming shows, most notably The Handmaid's Tale (yeah, I caught that little swipe there).  So, now he's trying to up the ante by doing more, when he should be focusing on improving what he already has.

Sigh.  Okay, on a more positive note...this was the first time this season that I found Beth (who I enjoyed last season) to be likable.  The Deja story is hard to watch, but for the right reasons...and I think the credit for that goes more to the acting than the writing.  I like the young actress playing Deja, but I do not buy her being 12 years old.  Still, this is the one plot that is keeping me tuned in each week right now.

13 hours ago, virginia blue said:

I love Randall, but he has shown no ability to connect with Deja. When Beth was with Deja, she was able to express that she understood Deja’s condition, reassure her that it was normal, and show her that she could help. Even though she was talking about her family and her sister, it was really about Deja. When Randall talks to her he’s all about himself. Why would he tell this child he’s had two nervous breakdowns? What is she supposed to do with that?

I think this is because Randall (surprise, surprise) went into being a foster parent with the expectation that his personal story would resonate with whoever they fostered, and that just isn't the case here.  Beth seemed to be more open minded, or at least have fewer expectations, about being a foster parent, which is what gives her the edge.  Well, that and her having been a 12 year old girl at one point in her life.

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

4 hours ago, mtlchick said:

4 hours ago, mtlchick said:

 

I'm still not sure what to think of the Deja part.  Beth clearly managed to get to her if she was allowed to touch her hair.  But I guess Deja didn't think Beth would share with Randall and felt she can't trust anyone.

I thought Beth made her feel what she said was between them. Deja needs to know she can trust that when she's told it's between them it stays or the alternate that whatever is said will be shared with Randall. 

Quote

 

I just got to say it: I don't hold with giving your kids chicken pox on purpose just to "get it out of the way". Even if you don't have insurance it's better to just get the damn vaccinations.

EDIT: I wasn't aware that the vaccination wasn't available back then. My bad.

 

My grandparents would take all of their children to visit cousins when they got any of the diseases. However, they never did get them. So when we (me, brother and sister) got them as kids my mother was careful, but, still never got them. Damn Gram had some super breast milk going there.  Getting the chicken pox out of the way in one time frame would be easier. The house is already in quarantine and it's easier than dealing with it at different times. My brother and sister got it and then I got it at the end so my mother was trapped for weeks. She couldn't come to my Thanksgiving program at school, which I sang in, because she had 2 kids at home with the pox and had to watch my parade in the costume she made me sitting in the car instead of on the street where I could see her pride.  The vaccinations don't absolutely prevent the pox. But, it should make it easier on the kids. However, my kids have gotten EVERY vacc that came out and my daughter had the pox in her mouth!

[Fostersmom]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I remember when my sister's kids, now in their mid 30's, were in school.  The moms would actually have 'pox parties' where kids who hadn't had the chicken pox were sent to play at the homes of kids who had them so they would catch it and get it over with.

My sister infected the whole damn elementary school with chicken pox. She had a single spot right in the middle of her chest for weeks, my mom thought it was a pimple. Finally, one day her 1st grade teacher saw her scratching, took a look, and sent her to the nurse. Her pox did break out full blown just a day or so later, but is was super, super bad. She was covered head to toe, they got infected and turned green. She missed 2 full weeks of school. Pretty much the whole school broke out, and moms left and right were sending the other kids who lived in the apartment complex we lived in over to play just to get it over with. Meanwhile, it took me weeks to even get it even though we shared a bedroom, and when I did, I had about 11 pox and it lasted 4 days. I didn't even miss a full week of school. I've lived in fear since I was in second grade I could get it again since my case was so very mild. I'm 41 now, so hopefully enough kids don't get it these days I'm safe from it. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

1 hour ago, Fostersmom said:

My sister infected the whole damn elementary school with chicken pox. She had a single spot right in the middle of her chest for weeks, my mom thought it was a pimple. Finally, one day her 1st grade teacher saw her scratching, took a look, and sent her to the nurse. Her pox did break out full blown just a day or so later, but is was super, super bad. She was covered head to toe, they got infected and turned green. She missed 2 full weeks of school. Pretty much the whole school broke out, and moms left and right were sending the other kids who lived in the apartment complex we lived in over to play just to get it over with. Meanwhile, it took me weeks to even get it even though we shared a bedroom, and when I did, I had about 11 pox and it lasted 4 days. I didn't even miss a full week of school. I've lived in fear since I was in second grade I could get it again since my case was so very mild. I'm 41 now, so hopefully enough kids don't get it these days I'm safe from it. 

Just hope you don't get shingles  now. I've had it in my 40s., hubby, too. He got bilateral. Ouch.

[debraran]

6 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

I enjoy every episode, I feel like Rebecca got a chance to 'shine" this week.  She stood up to her Mother and protected her children.  The actress playing Rebecca's Mom is very good & convincing as a "snooty Mom".     I am surprised by the Kate pregnancy storyline, I did not see that coming!  I don't know what I think of that...isn't there enough going on in her life, without a baby too?    I admit to tears in the eyes when Kevin was watching his video of his football glory days & how proud Jack was of him.  All the kids wanted Jack to be proud of them.    And again, I ask, did I miss something about Toby?  What the heck does he do for a living?!  He seems to have a nice apartment, but he was just hanging around all day, cooking for Kate, caring for Kevin, doesn't he have a job he needs to go to?  Or are we supposed to assume he works from home?

I think someone said Toby is in computer work of some kind but they were always vague. He must work at home since he seems to always have time off. Maybe they will hone in more on him as the baby story line heats up.

I hated (especially working in an orthopedic office) seeing Kevin act the way he did with his brace etc and of course taking the pills. It is a current issue though and maybe they wanted to use it to talk about it in a forum some will relate too more than an ad or MD telling them.

I'm glad Rebecca was tough to her Mom, Randall was around for 10 years and 3 basketballs later, she knows what she  is doing. My kids are biracial and they told me once that when you let something go, you are complicit  and it hurts and it makes the person think they can still act that way. They might not change but they will in front of you or not see you. You need to have firm boundaries and there is no excuse for emotionally abusing someone.  Re "your goal dress" to Kate, geez, thanks Gram.  : /

[dju]

Oh boy, here comes the negative. This season is felling far less organic and far more 'we're manipulating you but pretending that we're a show that is above manipulating you' than the first one. The Kevin/Jack stuff alone felt so contrived I couldn't keep from rolling my eyes, in particular, the scene where Kevin is watching his old football game. The only emotion I had leaving that scene was annoyance because I could see those thick ass strings being pulled, having Jack's paused image on the television while Kevin hangs his head in angst?? So obnoxiously on the nose. And we really can't let one episode slide where Jack does something heroic can we? Gotta slide in that subtle/not so subtle masculine undertone somewhere. Which reminds me of the ridiculous moment where Jack throws Rebecca the "what is with you??" line in the video store in response to Rebecca making HARMLESS remarks about male actors. Careful Jack! Rein her in or she'll be leaving you for them!! Like...seriously?? I hope they're dropping in lines like that to tie back to Jack's flaw of possessiveness/jealousy because if not, the again, subtle, not so subtle male domineering throughline of the show that I cannot shut up about is getting very hard to let slide.

The Deja storyline was really the only thing that I felt had some genuine heart to it and that's mostly because of the actress. Randall is too busy trying so hard to win her over for what feels like his own benefit rather than Deja's while simultaneously trying so hard to beat his wife on his self-constructed parenting game only to come to the startling revelation that parenting is about teamwork!! What a concept. Just, man alive, I think I may be out with this show.

[Arcadiasw]

When Deja put her hands up in fear of Randall last episode, didn’t Beth and Randall realize Deja experiences with men might’ve been abusive and for now any connection Deja forms will be with the females in the family and it will take longer before Deja and Randall form a connection?

It’s sad Deja cut her hair but I think Beth is at fault more than Randall. Beth formed a connection with Deja over hair using herself, sisters and Mom. Beth talked to Deja alone and even told her there was no one in the house. That gave Deja enough comfort and trust to open up to Beth. Beth knows Randall enough to know once she shares this information, Randall, in his need to quickly connect with Deja, will bring it up to her and insert himself in it to get that same connection instead of patiently waiting for that to happen. Knowing her husband, I think Beth should've held off on sharing with Randall or make suggestions to him to slowly bond with Deja. Running sounds like a good way to bond but insert the other girls so Deja won't feel singled out. 

I've no problem with Kate knowing she's pregnant for six weeks and not telling Toby yet. It's six weeks, not six months.  

My oldest brother ran from us so he never got chicken pox. I hope he doesn't get shingles, too. 

[ShadowFacts]

5 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

So, I'm watching this and it's the first episode this season that I don't find irritating.  There are some things that bug me (it feels like 2 different shows being the biggest one), but it is holding my attention and I feel like they are taking their time telling stories and then...bam!  Kate's pregnant.  I had really hoped that spoiler was a big nothingburger, but I guess not.  Even more than Kevin's addiction issues, this feels like too much right now.  You know, Kate trying to find her way in a new career (ha!) as well as navigating her relationship with Toby is actually a lot right there for one character.  Kevin trying to make it as a serious actor while balancing his renewed relationship (yet completely inert) relationship with Sophie was enough without the addiction.   

Here's my crackpot theory on all this--I think that Fogelman expected this show to be the Belle of the Ball last year and it was shown up by several streaming shows, most notably The Handmaid's Tale (yeah, I caught that little swipe there).  So, now he's trying to up the ante by doing more, when he should be focusing on improving what he already has.

Sigh.  Okay, on a more positive note...this was the first time this season that I found Beth (who I enjoyed last season) to be likable.  The Deja story is hard to watch, but for the right reasons...and I think the credit for that goes more to the acting than the writing.  I like the young actress playing Deja, but I do not buy her being 12 years old.  Still, this is the one plot that is keeping me tuned in each week right now.

This pregnancy story feels unnecessary and generally I get irritated when one is shoehorned in a show.  Yes, unexpected pregnancies happen all the time, that's how half of us arrive on the planet, but the drama of it all just fizzles after the baby is born and usually it becomes wallpaper.  In this case, having seen Toby be pretty nurturing with Kevin, maybe he is the stay-at-home parent, but they're already doing that with Randall.  It might be that Kate loses the baby, and perhaps has that loss as a bridge to Rebecca.

I agree that Beth-Deja-Randall is the most compelling, and once again this season Randall's family is the center for me.  Kate and Kevin just don't resonate as much with me because of their show-biz world which I don't care about, and the aforementioned unnecessary pregnancy and Kevin's apparent struggle with addiction.

Oh, and I didn't buy little Randall thinking his grandmother shot MLK.  He's shown as super smart, and he pops up with that like he would actually believe it?  Nah, I didn't laugh, my eyes took a little roll.

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I think Randall is trying to reach out to Deja in the only way he can think of, by sharing his own vulnerabilities.  But it's not really having an impact.

She's way too withdrawn tightly into her own vulnerabilities to understand that he's trying to connect to her.  Deja was cautiously letting the door open a crack with Beth, offering her the tiniest peek into her (Deja's) concerns.  I'm surprised Randall and Beth were too obtuse to see that she would consider their talking to be a betrayal.  (Of course they should discuss it, but both should have known that Randall shouldn't bring it up.)  I'm not sure I like this storyline but the girl playing Deja is doing a wonderful job.  The casting agent has found a remarkable group of child actors for this show.

8 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

I don’t know how Jack could be out their shoveling with a fever.  Even with Tylenol you would still be weak.

If Jack had chicken pox as an adult he wouldn't want to get out of bed, no matter how saintly he was.  I had it when I was in HS and have never been in so much pain in my life.  It was horrible.  Years later my daughter contracted CP while I was pregnant with kid #2 and I was scared to death the baby would somehow catch it in utero.  He didn't.

Not really interested in the overdone pill addiction storyline.  Or the inevitable further damage to the busted knee.  JH is getting better with a more meaty storyline though.

Young Randall's reaction to grandma and MLK was funny.  That boy is an outstanding young actor too.

I don't mind the pregnancy storyline since it gives Kate more to do than talk about her weight.

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

1 hour ago, Arcadiasw said:

My oldest brother ran from us so he never got chicken pox. I hope he doesn't get shingles, too. 

You can't get shingles unless you have had chicken pox. Shingles is borne from the virus being in your system. Adult chicken pox are a possibility, though, From what I hear it's worse than if you had them as a child. My daughter managed to give her stepmother chicken pox. 

[llewis823]

I was an only child so I did not get chicken pox until I was 21 - about  a month or so before my wedding. lol  I only got it in my scalp and on my legs. Luckily I didn't end up with any scars and it all cleared up before my wedding. But the weird thing is - when I went to work at a hospital 4 years ago (at 49 years old) they do a test for chicken pox immunity and it said I had never had them! But I was an adult when I had them - I know for certain that I did but my blood tests showed no immunity??? So I had to have the chicken pox vaccine at 49 years old! Pretty wild, huh?

[Crs97]

2 hours ago, dju said:

And we really can't let one episode slide where Jack does something heroic can we? Gotta slide in that subtle/not so subtle masculine undertone somewhere. Which reminds me of the ridiculous moment where Jack throws Rebecca the "what is with you??" line in the video store in response to Rebecca making HARMLESS remarks about male actors. Careful Jack! Rein her in or she'll be leaving you for them!! Like...seriously?? I hope they're dropping in lines like that to tie back to Jack's flaw of possessiveness/jealousy because if not, the again, subtle, not so subtle male domineering throughline of the show that I cannot shut up about is getting very hard to let slide.

And don't forget when Jack explained racism to Randall by explaining to Randall that sometimes Rebecca says things that sound nice, but have mean undertones.   

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Is it wrong that I hope I get to hear about Annie's dreams every week?

Every time Randall and Beth have a conversation about Deja, I keep expecting to see her listening around the corner. I understand Randall wanting to handle Deja his way, especially now that it's his turn to be the stay at home parent, but he needs to keep telling himself that it's not about him. I love that Deja opened up to Beth a little bit but then Randall inadvertently blew that all up. Poor Deja - she looked so happy with her braids until then.

I get that Randall was trying to bond with her over something they had in common, but the problem is that he's so busy trying to fulfill his foster child fantasy that he's not really considering how Deja feels or how she will react. I know that there are a lot of parents who tell each other everything their kids say and that's fine. But you can't TELL the kids that the other person told you something very private and personal!

For the record, I'm with Deja. I'm not a fan of wearing other people's gross shoes, especially knowing that the bowling alley's sterilization process consists of spraying some Lysol inside.

Ugh, I hate when someone says, "We aren't connecting," and what they really mean is "We haven't had sex lately." Just come out and say it! What made it even worse is that Kate said that they had sex two days ago.

Rebecca's mom sucks. But I was already annoyed that everyone acted like Randall standing in the living room in his underwear was going to cause him to catch pneumonia (instead of the chicken pox). Even though it was winter outside, he was inside the house. It would be one thing if he were going to stand out in the front yard in his underwear all night. But standing in the living room where the heat was on? That shouldn't be a problem.

Rebecca's mom's "I grew up in a different time" was a little too reminiscent of Harvey Weinstein's excuses last week. Sorry, that's not an acceptable reason for shitty behavior.

Things are weird when Toby is the one being logical and responsible. He's the one noticing Kate's weird obsessive exercising and telling Kevin to stop trying to force his recovery.

I know that every performer wants as much attention/screentime possible, but Kevin is freaking out because he got cut from ONE scene and ONE of his lines was given to someone else? And it doesn't sound like it was some sort of iconic line either so he's freaking out over very little and risking permanent injury over one scene and one line? Slow your roll, man. You're already in the rest of the movie.

[CofCinci]

I adored the first season but I can barely make it through second season episodes now. I can’t get into the foster child storyline because I know they’re going to take her from the family once she gets attached (but of course she’ll return). I can’t get into Kevin’s drug addiction. I can’t get into this pregnancy either or her singing. The magic is gone for me.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Thanks to other posters for reminding me how annoying Jack's petty jealousy of actors was at the video store. Yes, Jack, if you rent Look Who's Talking, your wife is going to leave you for John Travolta. Ironic that Jack's son went on to become a hot actor.

Even though St. Jack is portrayed as the perfect father, I found it interesting that he hugged and touched Kevin but didn't notice anything wrong. Two seconds later, Rebecca felt Kevin's forehead and immediately knew that he had a fever.

[Drapers4thWife]

9 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

And again, I ask, did I miss something about Toby?  What the heck does he do for a living?! 

You can't worry about jobs with this show. Once they finished Randall's storyline about his work they writers seemed done worrying about jobs. Because not just Toby, but what about Kate? She had the job with Jami Gertz for one episode then we never saw it or was mentioned again. But Kate has had endless time off, first to stay in New York after Toby's heart attack, then go to fat camp, now she apparently has endless money without working to do what she wants all day. Randall quit his high-paying but he and Beth didn't even blink about money - she has a job of some sort but yet is always around the house. It's just the nature of TV, presumably all this drama happens on the weekends. 

I'll fanwank it to say that Toby invented some amazing software or co-founded a computer company or something and so he has a bunch of money and no need for Kate and him to work. 

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

And don't forget when Jack explained racism to Randall by explaining to Randall that sometimes Rebecca says things that sound nice, but have mean undertones.   

I really don't think that was meant as a slam against Rebecca.  I think most of the audience would sympathize with Rebecca because, yes, it does suck when people leave their wet shoes in the middle of the floor.  I really do think they are showing Jack's flaws alongside Rebecca's.  

2 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

When Deja put her hands up in fear of Randall last episode, didn’t Beth and Randall realize Deja experiences with men might’ve been abusive and for now any connection Deja forms will be with the females in the family and it will take longer before Deja and Randall form a connection?

I totally agree.  With that in mind, you would think he would have realized he needs to tread very carefully.  Randall is very nice but he's a bit of a bull in a china shop. When he's doing something, he's really doing it.  If he's working, he's working a ton of hours.  If he's taking care of William, he isn't focusing on work.  If he's decided to stay at home and not work, he wants to be doing 100% of the caretaking and keeps track of who puts bandaids on.  It is the wrong approach to take with a foster child, and is an unhealthy characteristic in general, I think.

[Drapers4thWife]

8 hours ago, After7Only said:

I hope in a future episode we get to hear all 3 verses of Randall's heal the boo boo antibacterial cream song.  The scene of him and Beth cracked me up.  

The best part was when they realized the fitted sheet went the other way. My spouse and I do that every time! I think I'll go on Shark Tank with a freakin' labeled sheet and make a million dollars. 

[Katy M]

52 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ugh, I hate when someone says, "We aren't connecting," and what they really mean is "We haven't had sex lately." Just come out and say it! What made it even worse is that Kate said that they had sex two days ago.

Which is why I took it that he meant actually connecting and she interpreted it as sex.  He said she was checking her fitbit the entire time.  Having sex isn't just going through the motions and being mentally elsewhere.

 

42 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Even though St. Jack is portrayed as the perfect father, I found it interesting that he hugged and touched Kevin but didn't notice anything wrong. Two seconds later, Rebecca felt Kevin's forehead and immediately knew that he had a fever.

They were probably just trying to mirror Kate's appendicitis.

[Jillybean]

31 minutes ago, Drapers4thWife said:

You can't worry about jobs with this show. Once they finished Randall's storyline about his work they writers seemed done worrying about jobs. Because not just Toby, but what about Kate? She had the job with Jami Gertz for one episode then we never saw it or was mentioned again. But Kate has had endless time off, first to stay in New York after Toby's heart attack, then go to fat camp, now she apparently has endless money without working to do what she wants all day. Randall quit his high-paying but he and Beth didn't even blink about money - she has a job of some sort but yet is always around the house. It's just the nature of TV, presumably all this drama happens on the weekends. 

I'll fanwank it to say that Toby invented some amazing software or co-founded a computer company or something and so he has a bunch of money and no need for Kate and him to work. 

As far as I can tell, Toby and Kate are both unemployed.  After she bailed on Jami Gertz, we never heard anything again about her employment. Some posters have suggested she may be working for Kevin again, but that hasn't been shown or mentioned. I don't recall any mentions of Toby's employment status ever. Apparently he can cover the expenses associated with a heart attack.  (Side note: I don't think anything was ever mentioned about Toby and Kate living together. They just seemed to be doing so at the start of this season).

I think Randall and Beth probably have plenty of money in the bank, and her paycheck probably can cover the day-to-day. But yes, she always seems to be home. 

Like you, it's something I notice but realize is the nature of TV. After all, on Friends Monica was supposed to be a chef at a high-end restaurant, but she always seemed to have plenty of time to hang around her apartment or Central Perk on evenings and weekends.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Jillybean

[kili]

Quote

Interesting,  the relationship between Rebecca and her mother, mirrors Rebecca relationship with Kate

Rants in the kitchen about her mother calling her "Bunny"....calls her daughter "Bug".

Sometimes, we don't even notice what we are doing.

[marny]

I hate to be a nitpicker (who am I kidding— I love to be a nitpicker), but where did Kevin get that football video from? He was staying at Toby’s place, so it’s not like Toby would have it lying around. Does he just carry it in his bag all the time in case he needs to wallow? 

[sigmaforce86]

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, I'm disappointed that we had Kate so distracted by her big gig that she couldn't be there for Kevin during his recovery, so that sucked. And she's pregnant, and has known about it? Seriously? And she's told nobody? 

I think the clue is one thing she said to the Doctor "Is it still there?"..............It seemed like they were implying either she had a visit and the pregnancy was inconclusive but she was told to act like she was pregnant until the follow up OR she was confirmed pregnant but told at her weight or age or both it might not "take".  So maybe she was holding back on sharing until she knew for sure and was past a certain week.

Rebecca had the tissue moment this week - I loved her entire speech to her mother calling her out on how she treats Randall but then when she turned around and saw Randall standing there, knowing he'd heard everything and her face just sank.  And how she held him before sending him upstairs.  Perfect moment.

There's a lot going on; hopefully this is just set-up for the season, get all the story lines together in the beginning and then follow them through to spring otherwise this is going to get exhausting with all the twists and plots they're throwing at us.  At least Kevin's back story is making more sense, not only did he lose scholarships and a college and possible pro football career because of his knee but since we know he was on crutches when Jack died he lost his father at the same time he lost his future dreams.  That's a lot to bottle inside for 20 or so years.

[Jillybean]

1 minute ago, marny said:

I hate to be a nitpicker (who am I kidding— I love to be a nitpicker), but where did Kevin get that football video from? He was staying at Toby’s place, so it’s not like Toby would have it lying around. Does he just carry it in his bag all the time in case he needs to wallow? 

Good point. That video was probably made close to Jack's death, since Jack created it to show colleges and that was shortly before Kevin was injured. We see him wearing the cast when Jack died. I'm sure it has sentimental value to him...maybe when he packed a bag he threw it in there? Fanwanking...

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, marny said:

I hate to be a nitpicker (who am I kidding— I love to be a nitpicker), but where did Kevin get that football video from? He was staying at Toby’s place, so it’s not like Toby would have it lying around. Does he just carry it in his bag all the time in case he needs to wallow? 

I wondered that too, but honestly, my first thought was that Kate somehow got all the remaining old Dad tapes (even though they had a huge fire so technically they shouldn't have as much childhood stuff as they do) and she's kept even these football tapes. Kate is living with Toby now so I just figured Kevin went looking for the (obviously remastered) tapes, and decided to watch. 

[Katy M]

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, I'm disappointed that we had Kate so distracted by her big gig that she couldn't be there for Kevin during his recovery, so that sucked.

I think she was more distracted by her high risk pregnancy.  She went from there to the drug store and then the doctor.  Nothing to do with her gig. 

[Driad]

Rebecca’s mother is trying. Very trying. Bless her heart. [Take that the way a Southerner would say it.]

[Conotocarious]

Kate lives at Toby's. Maybe she has a collection of home videos of her dad just the way she keeps his urn. Not a huge stretch. 

 

I really liked how Kate's pregnancy clues were nothing like what usually is done on tv shows. No scarfing down weird foods, or getting sick st random times. She's over exercising and not eating and with her weight issues, it makes perfect sense. One of my friends was an obese woman when pregnant with her kids and the doctors were pretty stern with her. It was a pretty realistic way for Kate to react in her situation.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Conotocarious

[SunnyBeBe]

I was underwhelmed, if not disappointed last night.  I did take one good thing away though.  I suppose it's worth it. 

1. Randall does not recognize proper boundaries with Deja. I suppose that's just how it's been written.  But, I would think that a man of his intellect and sensitivity would realize that revealing details about your metal health breakdowns, might frighten a child and cause her to wonder about your stability.  TOO MUCH INFORMATION too soon.  

2. Kate being pregnant.  OMG, this is one of the old standby storylines that the writers pull out when they are desperate for drama and excitement. It sounds good initially, but, then they have to figure out what to do with the characters and the aftermath.  It rarely works.  I mean....that's all they have to do with her?  

3. Keven and the drug addiction story.....I agree with others.  So predictable.  From tv land we see how adults deny medical need or injury and push on.  IRL, adults I know do the opposite.  So juvenile for a grown man, imo.  

I did enjoy seeing Rebecca calmly and honestly reveal her feelings about how her mom treated Randall and how she wasn't going to tolerate it anymore.  GOOD for her.  I believed it and it inspired me in my personal life. I've had something similar with my senior parents for awhile and had thought just ignoring it might be better, but NOOOO.  I am a forthright person and I'm taking Rebecca's example to heart.  The right thing is always the right thing. 

[Biggie B]

I liked the tense scene between Rebecca and her mother. That limp "times were different" excuse was sooooo spot-on for that character! And then to say, "I'm trying," was even worse - so glad Rebecca said, "You shouldn't have to." ZING!!! I can't help but wonder if we will see more of Grandma down the road, or if this is it. 

I'm 55, so there was no chickenpox vaccine yet when I was a kid. I had it twice!!! The first time, it was just a few spots, but the second time was head to toe. My older sister had it at the same time. I'm so old, I remember our pediatrician making a house call for that! I still have a few scars, too. My 21 year old son was vaccinated and never had to go through that ordeal, for which I'm glad. I have some colleagues and friends in the UK who are younger than I am, with small kids, and it seems that vaccinating against chickenpox is not done there, or if so, isn't done on a widespread basis. I could be wrong - I'm just going on the dozen or so people I'm close to who live in the UK. 

Anyway, it was a welcome break not to have Jack's mysterious (so far) death being rammed down our throats. 

Kate's pregnancy...seeing as this is a soap opera, it will of course be THE most fraught pregnancy known to humankind, both physically and emotionally, so I'm a bit leery about the possibilities. 

Kevin's injury and subsequent painkiller-addiction - ugh. Not looking forward to this at all. Certainly his burgeoning career and newly-rekindled relationship with Sophie are potential prime victims. Total downward spiral, here we come! 

I, too, wondered where Kevin's high school football videos came from, but will go with the already-proposed theory that Kate has them. Maybe a five-second scene in which Kevin roots around and finds them would've been helpful. 

Beth was great this week.