S13.E09: Week 9: Overnight Dates

[Armchair Critic]

1 minute ago, truthaboutluv said:

Well yeah, that's the rumor of why they broke up but not sure what that has to do with my point regarding the season.

And I'm not sure why I have to defend myself to you.

[truthaboutluv]

5 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

And I'm not sure why I have to defend myself to you.

*sigh*, well that escalated quickly. I never asked, inferred, suggested that you or anyone had to defend themselves to me. You made a point about Emily's season and I replied with a comment about who she chose and how the season played out. You mentioned something about why they broke up after the season was over, which had nothing to do with the point I made, which was why I was confused and expressed that. And now suddenly we're here and I have no idea how we got there. But seriously, it is not that deep so moving on. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[HeyThere83]

3 hours ago, LilJen said:

I like Peter's honesty. I think Rachel has a weird idea of what an engagement is. To me, engagement isn't something you do lightly, in agreement with Peter there. It's almost as if she just has to have the STATUS of being engaged, not actually someone she will marry. I hope she gets her head out of her ass and realizes he is more serious about this than anyone else.

Man I was screaming (in my head) at this. They are so beautiful together. I wondered if she was saying that to try to get him to propose....or if she really does believe that. Problem is, I think (I guess) that people do this because they are tired of waiting for their great love or whatever and just want it to happen right then, right away. No matter what.

[Refresh]

On the shallow end...Have I watched too many seasons of this show (yes) but was the fantasy suite that Erik got not all that? A decent AirBnb deal but not a fantasy suite. The couch looked uncomfortable. The ficus looked fake. Peter's was a little nicer.

[HeyThere83]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

That said, Rachel was already in love with Bryan. That date with her family had shades of Ashley's season and when J.P. met her sister. I remember how angry and upset Ashley was over her sister not liking J.P. at all which was a total giveaway that he was the one she wanted. Rachel went into full attack mode on her family, including her own mother, for the way they were treating Bryan. I'm sorry, you don't have that kind of reaction to your family who you love and are very close to over some guy you're not really into. And her mother even called it out a bit by pointing out how she could tell how deeply Rachel felt for Bryan based on her reaction. I admit I cracked up when Rachel looked like she was this close to telling the brother in law to just shut it and that he had no say. 

I thought two things:

1.) She is upset because she's so in love with him

or

2.) She's upset because he is the only one telling her exactly what she wants to hear and so this makes her have to think about whether or not to pick Bryan (if Peter doesn't say what she wants before the end).

 

Personally, I think Bryan is who she decided to go with if Peter did not come around....but who knows.

[judie]

I think Rachel wants Peter like Bryan wants Rachel. Peter just has to say the word and it's over.

[SnapeCharmer]

This episode only reinforced my theory. They didn't even try to sell us a believable fantasy. I guess I'll watch this lame horse of a season limp to the finish line and be done for good with this franchise. I wish Eric the best though. 

[shok]

4 hours ago, HeyThere83 said:

Man I was screaming (in my head) at this. They are so beautiful together. I wondered if she was saying that to try to get him to propose....or if she really does believe that. Problem is, I think (I guess) that people do this because they are tired of waiting for their great love or whatever and just want it to happen right then, right away. No matter what.

I can't help but think of Ian on Meredith's season when I hear what Peter has to say about getting engaged and then when Meredith took the big chance and chose Ian as her No. 1 despite Matt being more than happy to get engaged and talk marriage, it was, IMO, still the most romantic engagement of Bachelorette of all time. At that time the engaged couple used to go on The View and I remember Meredith Viera asking Ian why he proposed when he had been so adamant all through the season that he never would, and Ian said that he knew it would make Meredith happy if he did. *sniff*

I like Peter the way I liked Ian because he seems so normal and isn't playing to the cameras, plus he is so damn gorgeous. :)

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, catrice2 said:

So it can be done.....

back in the day yes it could. 

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Well not everyone is Emily Maynard.  I've been in the presence of blonde women where the men around us absolutely lost their minds and became different people.  Rachel is Rachel. She is breaking ground and it's a very interesting season, to me.

yeah its amazing what fake teeth and boobs can do to a room full of men. To this day meredith was my favorite ette. Trista was great but the baby voice just killed me.lol

[alexa]

Before I could actually buy Bryan as being into Rachel, but he was way too rehearsed and awkward with her family.  I agree with the sister--it lacked in sincerity.  Maybe he was just uncomfortable, but I didn't buy a word he said.  Though it seems that Rachel would rather have someone that can say all of the right things and propose, and break up fairly soon after over someone honest like Peter that wants to give this a real shot the normal way.  Since when is engagement not serious, and not mean that you intend to get married?  I don't get what she is saying other than she doesn't want to leave the Bachelorette not engaged.  Otherwise has she expected every boyfriend to propose before he knows he wants to get married?  She made it sound like the relationship that you have before the engagement is the same thing and it is not.  

[hyacinth]

Strange but enjoyable episode.    Initially, I thought Rachel was leading Eric on -  but Eric is nothing if not perceptive.  I think he knows he's not the choice but he's enjoying his time on the show and life. 

I think Peter's tired of the watch-wearing Bryan and Rachel show and he's backed out of the room.   (And the relationship.)    

Peter would be a toy wooden soldier Bachelor, explaining seriously that although they had all signed on for the chance to get engaged quickly, he was too good for that concept.   He almost looked like a disproving Dad when Rachel explained her definition of an engagement.   She should have given him the same type of stern lecture she gave DeMario after meeting his ex girlfriend.    

I am starting to see what Rachel is doing as an audition for a broadcasting job.   She's always on, and she enjoys the short intro pieces more than anyone I've seen.  

Rachel's mother was such a wonderful combination of being loving and supportive but asking needed questions.   I would have LOVED to hear her Dad grill the men.   

[JenE4]

I'm officially Team Eric. I mean, I'm certain that Rachel won't pick him, but after "hiding" him in the background all season just to trot him out as a contender, I finally see how he made it to the top. He's the Rightest Reasons out of the trio, and I do believe we just witnessed him falling in love for the first time.

Second place episode MVP goes to Rachel's uncle, who is a card carrying member of Bachelor Nation, and remembered all about Eric from his first appearance. He was also the only one eating lunch while everyone else was acting all aghast toward Bryan's Wrong Reasons potential.

 I can't wait until the Peter cliffhanger that has Rachel "devastated." Because, as was mentioned by many of you already, if she could look past a meaningless (to her) ring, Peter is the only one looking at this seriously as the next step to marriage.

[DEL901]

8 hours ago, hoosiermom said:

I am confused. Is the issue with Peter that she is afraid he WON'T propose to her because he believes that means marriage or that she doesn't want to be obligated to marriage when he does propose?

I don't think that is what she thinks about real-world engagements.  I think that's what she thinks about Bachelor(ette) engagements - they are really just a commitment to keep dating and really get to know each other.   Peter's stuck in "real world" mode.  An engagement ring is a commitment to marriage.

Also, she doesn't want to be embarrassed by being the only Bachelorette not to get a proposal.

 

And I was thinking... why do the men have to propose?  It should be the Bachelorette, shouldn't it?

[Kendra143]

Rachel: pick the man you want to spend your future with, not the one who is telling you what you want to hear. There's a difference. Be honest with yourself and the men. Forget the show and think about your life. ? LOL what show lead ever takes that advice???? 

[Slakkie]

I can totally see a Producer telling Peter "You know even if you don't win Rachel the fans are going to love you.  And you know the Bachelor has to have his heart broken in their season so why are you not in love with Rachel?  Maybe you should tell her you love her?  HINT HINT HINT

[nutty1]

8 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Except for the one who wasn't chasing her is who she ended up picking in the end. I am always amused when Emily's season is brought up as a symbol of this goddess the men all flocked over because it's like people just completely forgot how much she had to chase Jef in the first few episodes, how he didn't even kiss her until like the fifth episode or something, even when at one point she was giving him, "please kiss me" eyes. It's why Arie fans were even more pissed when she picked Jef over him because Arie, much like Bryan, was all in right from the start. 

 

Awww Jef....I adored that guy!! I like the quirkier ones, like Brooks (another favorite), Ali's Frank, Wells.

 

FWIW, I think she is into Bryan and wants no one else. That is why I was so perplexed last night when she was trying to pull an I love you out of Eric! And what is with her telling Eric and Peter she is falling in love with them!!!!! Ben got blasted for telling JoJo he loved her.

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, clubsauce said:

Rachel, during every date:

"But enough about me. How do you feel about me?"

True but I understood why she was fishing for that, because all any of them do is talk about themselves.

Eric: " Ramble, ramble, my life, my story, connection, commitment, provide, protect, I feel safe with you, every date we move forward,"  Often,  he just repeats whatever Rachel just said. 

Peter: "I like to take things slowly and never make a move until I'm absolutely guaranteed that the future will be perfect.  I once lived with a woman for a year and when we broke up she cried!  I don't want to go through anything that traumatic, ever again"  "Oh look baby clothes!"  "You picked the wrong dress for a windy day Rachel."  "Don't get too close, Rachel, you'll wrinkle my shirt."

Bryan: "It's all so  marvelous, magical, swept away into paradise, walking on air, in love with your family, love, love, enchanted love."  Rachel's uncle to Bryan:  "Name something about Rachel that brings out the best in you."  Bryan: Long stunned silence. "Can I go to the bathroom?"

Rachel is exceptionally intelligent, has a wonderful, quick sense of humor, can make the best out of any awkward situation, is passionate, extremely honest, open to all types of people, is kind, will interrupt herself when cute little girls walk up,  and really a very special person in many ways besides being physically stunning -- and I haven't heard one of these guys express any of that.  If they can't see Rachel for herself and not just the show prize, I really wouldn't want any of them for her.

[dleighg]

10 hours ago, awaken said:

So, having been in love and having several  past long-term relationships is prerequisite for being in love "for real" and getting married? It's like they think it's suspicious of one's ability to have a serious relationship if they haven't had several before. Very strange standard they were harping on. That would rule out a lot of great relationships if it were a requirement!  

 

That was certainly the case for my husband, who was a bit of a late bloomer, and if I may say so, very picky about who he dated and got serious with. Lucky for me!

[truthaboutluv]

50 minutes ago, nutty1 said:

That is why I was so perplexed last night when she was trying to pull an I love you out of Eric!

Because that is how this show goes. The lead gets people to say they're in love with them even when they know they don't feel the same and will be sending them home soon. Nick did it to Rachel just before eliminating her, which set up her Bachelorette storyline perfectly. Since Emily was brought up, I remember she did it to Sean because Sean was a bit reluctant I remember to say he was in love and many other leads and contestants. It's just how this show works, which again is why I eye-roll the stuff with Peter. 

Again, what Peter is saying is not wrong per se. But then this is a guy who applied to the show himself knowing exactly what the premise of it is and that it is in many ways ridiculous. It is interesting seeing the double standards in opinions because again, women are the predominant viewers of this show. Because when Vanessa expressed her feelings about the show and its process last season, she was raked over the coals for being whiny, needy, arrogant, entitled, "didn't she know what show she signed up for". 

But Peter's hot (to some, not me) and so it's, "he's the only reasonable person here, he's being realistic and Rachel should just get over wanting to be engaged and accept whatever he is giving her and offering because so pretty together". Yeah except again, in my opinion, the problem here is simply that Peter's not really into Rachel at all. So the notion that she should pick him because she is in love with him (according to some but I disagree) even he doesn't feel the same is baffling to me.

I understand saying she should pick no one. Apparently Charlize Theron is a fan of the show (who knew) and said in an interview that Rachel shouldn't pick any of the men. Fine, that I totally get. Because it's obvious what she has with Eric is a friendship, people think Bryan is caught up in the show and just selling lines and Peter is simply not into the woman. But that's not what I'm reading and it just baffles me. It's all, "get over what you want Rachel, what you think you deserve and pick the pretty even if the pretty can't even wrap you in a warm hug when you're sitting there looking emotional and upset." 

Edited July 25, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[TomGirl]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

 Rachel's uncle to Bryan:  "Name something about Rachel that brings out the best in you."  Bryan: Long stunned silence. "Can I go to the bathroom?"

I thought that was pure editing, and rather clumsy editing at that.

[dleighg]

Rachel (with Peter):" I need(ed) more time to flush this all out"    Oh Rachel. And I noted that the guys learned their lesson and jumped up from the couch when she walked in this time.

[thesupremediva1]

8 hours ago, judie said:

I think Rachel wants Peter like Bryan wants Rachel. Peter just has to say the word and it's over.

This reminds me of My Best Friend's Wedding when Julia Roberts absconds after Dermot Mulroney in a bread truck and is talking to her bestie Rupert Everett on a cell phone:

"So Michael's chasing Kimmie?"

"Yes."

"And you're chasing Michael?"

"Yes."

"And who's chasing you? Nobody! Get it?!" 

In this Bachelorette scenario, Peter is Cameron Diaz, Rachel is Dermot Mulroney, and Bryan is Julia Roberts. The only one more desperate for an engagement than Rachel is Bryan. They're like a taxi whose light when on in the rain and a stranded bridge-and-tunnel commuter with only a New York Times to hold over his head. If Rachel could wait out the storm, she could get her stretch limo (Peter), but at this juncture in life, perhaps a taxi will do just fine if that limo isn't going to show up before you get pneumonia.

Lord help me, I started to love Eric this episode. He's young and inexperienced (comes off more like 25 than Dean ever did), but he's earnest and sincere and I believe he'd worship Rachel and take good care of her. Sometimes that level of devotion is more important than being on the same intellectual plane as someone who is as highly intelligent as Rachel. Eric seems joyous and fun-loving, unlike waxen Bryan who needs to say all the right things and stoic Peter. I'd love him as next Bachelor.

They need to stop with the cliffhanger endings. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by thesupremediva1

[SnapeCharmer]

Did you all catch when Bryan said he's his mom's only child. That seemed strange to me. Usually someone would say, I'm the only child. It seems an odd way to phrase it unless his dad has other children outside the marriage. I mean his parents been married for 40 years according to him.

[comosedice]

10 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

It's funny how the editing on this show can make us all see different things. It's clear the above opinion is exactly what's going to be the opinion on social media, come the finale, if Rachel picks Bryan. That is, "well he was all in and Peter wasn't so she went with him". YMMV but imo, while the editing has certainly tried to lean that way because they always have to create some suspense, I don't buy it. Like I've said, I do believe at the start of the season, Rachel was into both Bryan and Peter. I don't think this was a season where the lead knew who they wanted from the start.

 

The editing is what it is and we are all victims of it, including you. Interpretation of the editing is what varies. I do not like Bryan based on what I've seen of him and that affects my interpretation. You do not like Peter, which also affects your interpretation of the editing. Nobody here is completely objective no matter how much they think they are. I believe Bryan will be Rachel's choice at the end and that makes me think less of her. I hope Peter is eliminated in the next episode so that I can stop watching. I wish Eric all the best. He seems like an earnest, likeable guy.

11 minutes ago, Siggystardust said:

Did you all catch when Bryan said he's his mom's only child. That seemed strange to me. Usually someone would say, I'm the only child. It seems an odd way to phrase it unless his dad has other children outside the marriage. I mean his parents been married for 40 years according to him.

I think that's the case as they showed his sister in the hometown visit.

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, Siggystardust said:

Did you all catch when Bryan said he's his mom's only child. That seemed strange to me. Usually someone would say, I'm the only child. It seems an odd way to phrase it unless his dad has other children outside the marriage. I mean his parents been married for 40 years according to him.

Yeah he said it multiple times during the HTD and I noticed it then too. I have read online that some are positive he has a brother but as you said his parents have been married for 40 years. So I do wonder if it's a case of his dad had another child out of wedlock or maybe there was an affair situation. Who knows. But it's pretty clear in my opinion that he's only his mother's only child and not his dad's. 

 

Quote

I think that's the case as they showed his sister in the hometown visit.

Apparently that was his cousin, not a sister. 

 

Quote

The editing is what it is and we are all victims of it, including you

Yes, which is why I said the editing makes all see things differently. 

YMMV, I do think the family seemed a little intense and harsh with Bryan. I wondered if it's the case of being the last.  It's like the theory when you were in school and had to make presentations, people believed going first or one of the first was best because the teacher was a little more generous. But by the last ones, because you had seen everyone else and there was a standard to compare it to, they got harsher. So it was like Peter was first so they were a bit nicer in their approach but by the time Bryan came, the questions got harder and the concerns more intense. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Chick2Chic]

9 hours ago, HeyThere83 said:

2.) She's upset because he is the only one telling her exactly what she wants to hear and so this makes her have to think about whether or not to pick Bryan (if Peter doesn't say what she wants before the end).

This popped into my head too. I mentioned to someone last night that Rachel was acting defensive in a manner that made me wonder if she was upset about how her current behavior with Bryan reflected on her and her choices. She seems very focused on the engagement ring symbolism and less so the connection/commitment of a relationship. I thought Rachel looked ridiculous being angry at her family that they weren't kissing Bryan's ass and seeing him as this bastion of light that she does. They seemed to accept Peter and Eric just fine after their respective Q & A sessions. Instead of getting her back up that they didn't automatically fall over Bryan, it should've made Rachel pause to reflect about what they were saying and seeing.

I think she's too focused on him being her best bet at giving her that engagement that she can't stop talking about and has lost sight of anything else, which is disappointing. I thought she behaved ridiculously over her family having genuine concerns over Bryan. They weren't mean to him but obviously his pat answers weren't working for them like they do for Rachel. 

[BuckeyeLou]

11 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah he said it multiple times during the HTD and I noticed it then too. I have read online that some are positive he has a brother but as you said he's parents have been married for 40 years. So I do wonder if it's a case of his dad had another child out of wedlock or maybe there an affair situation. Who knows. But it's pretty clear in my opinion that he's only his mother's only child and not his dad's. 

I could swear when Rachel visited Bryan's family, there was a sister who questioned Rachel and seemed rather snooty about it.  I wondered if she was a step-sister...does anyone else remember her?

[useryikes]

I've been trying to watch this, it seemed fairly interesting to begin with.  I find, though, that I don't care for the 3 guys, so haven't been able to get into it.  Maybe Rachel should try on-line dating.

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, BuckeyeLou said:

I could swear when Rachel visited Bryan's family, there was a sister who questioned Rachel and seemed rather snooty about it.  I wondered if she was a step-sister...does anyone else remember her?

That was his cousin. Rachel mentioned it in her People blog. 

[BuckeyeLou]

Just now, truthaboutluv said:

That was his cousin. Rachel mentioned it in her People blog. 

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

[Primetimer]

Rachel makes her family meet the men and then jets off to Rioja to cavort with her final three.

View the full article

[Alapaki]

I lost a lot of respect for Rachel last night.

She told Peter that she doesn't want to end up "just dating a boyfriend", rather she wants an "engagement".

She then proceeded to define "engagement" as, essentially, "just dating a boyfriend."

I happen to think that Peter is just more into being the next Bachelor than spending another minute with Rachel.  But at least he's being honest about what words mean.

Last night showed me that Rachel is just another famewhore who's more than happy to read from Fleiss' script so she can get through this season and parlay into whatever famewhorery she's planning on.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Alapaki

[SnapeCharmer]

3 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

I lost a lost of respect for Rachel last night.

She told Peter that she doesn't want to end up "just dating a boyfriend", rather she wants an "engagement".

She then proceeded to define "engagement" as, essentially, "just dating a boyfriend."

I happen to think that Peter is just more into being the next Bachelor than spending another minute with Rachel.  But at least he's being honest about what words mean.

Last night showed me that Rachel is just another famewhore who's more than happy to read from Fleiss' script so she can get through this season and parlay into whatever famewhorery she's planning on.

I would go out on a limb and state that 99.9 percent of them are in it for Fame and fortune. Love does not fit into the equation. This bears out in the numbers. 30+ seasons combined that resulted in 3, maybe 4 successful couples. I find the mechanisms behind this show more fascinating than the show itself. I cannot wait until the next season of Unreal! 

[adhoc]

I agree with other posters who have pointed out that the show is spliced and diced and that participants are coached/encouraged/strongly urged to say and do certain things in order for the powers that be to create the most "compelling" show.  In this respect I agree with Reality Steve: don't take this show too seriously. Very little is happening as "organically" as it might look. Rachel, as the lead, has agreed to follow what is required of her for the most part, even if she personally doesn't always want to. I think this--portraying herself as affable and articulate, being a good little soldier who delivers on her promise to lead the guys on, etc.-- is the price she is willing to pay in order to hopefully secure a job in an entertainment-related field.  The suitors are likewise encouraged to say/do certain things to stay in the game (or risk getting sent home).  Most contestants are there to promote their brand, their career, and so on, not to find love. (Though I think Rachel would consider it great to actually find love on the show, too, I don't think she assumed she would find it.)

That said, back to last night: Peter looked stiff and uncomfortable at the family table. Didn't even pat Rachel's shoulder or some little fond touch you might expect from a suitor who really liked the bachelorette. 

I loved that Rachel's mom picked up on Bryan's comment that his mom was and always would be his number one woman (or something along those lines).  I'm glad she called him on it. It seemed to me he actually had to take a few seconds to think about it before agreeing that Rachel would take priority over his mother. If they really do get serious, he'd better move to Dallas.

[comosedice]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah he said it multiple times during the HTD and I noticed it then too. I have read online that some are positive he has a brother but as you said he's parents have been married for 40 years. So I do wonder if it's a case of his dad had another child out of wedlock or maybe there an affair situation. Who knows. But it's pretty clear in my opinion that he's only his mother's only child and not his dad's. 

 

Apparently that was his cousin, not a sister. 

 

Yes, which is why I said the editing makes all see things differently. 

YMMV, I do think the family seemed a little intense and harsh with Bryan. I wondered if it's the case of being the last.  It's like the theory when you were in school and had to make presentations, people believed going first or one of the first was best because the teacher was a little more generous. But by the last ones, because you had seen everyone else and there was a standard to compare it to, they got harsher. So it was like Peter was first so they were a bit nicer in their approach but by the time Bryan came, the questions got harder and the concerns more intense. 

Bryan's questions were no different from the others. I think the way he answered them was what had the family bothered. He was asked about how he would handle conflict between his mother and significant other because he created an opening for that question. I don't think he handled it well.

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, Siggystardust said:

I would go out on a limb and state that 99.9 percent of them are in it for Fame and fortune. Love does not fit into the equation. This bears out in the numbers. 30+ seasons combined that resulted in 3, maybe 4 successful couples. I find the mechanisms behind this show more fascinating than the show itself. I cannot wait until the next season of Unreal! 

This and yet viewers will always put certain contestants on pedestals and a new season will roll around with many thinking, "this one is different and it will be a different season". Sure they are and sure they will be. I've always said that I side-eye every single person who chooses to come on this franchise - every single one of them. Because when it comes down to it, this whole franchise is one ick-fest and it's been that way almost from the beginning. It's also been around long enough at this point for anyone signing up to know what they are agreeing to.

Edited July 25, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[catrice2]

31 minutes ago, Siggystardust said:

I would go out on a limb and state that 99.9 percent of them are in it for Fame and fortune. Love does not fit into the equation. This bears out in the numbers. 30+ seasons combined that resulted in 3, maybe 4 successful couples. I find the mechanisms behind this show more fascinating than the show itself. I cannot wait until the next season of Unreal! 

I watched Unreal because my friend was so Bachelor crazy and I wanted to see a more "fictionalized" version of the show to try to understand why she likes it so much because the idea of "real" people  going through this process was creepy to me .

Unfortunately I chose to watch the 2nd? season and never saw the first and was appalled at how the "show" handled race.  The reviews started coming and other viewers talked about how bad it was compared to the first season and how the writers really mishandled the season.  I feel like this show has done the same.  Unfortunately, however, these are "real" people coming on the show and although they are susceptible to some machinations by the producers/editors, etc. I agree with you, a lot of it is the contestants themselves.   Once free vacations, clothing, promotion, bar appearances, hosting opportunities, Dancing with the Stars, setting me up in my dream job (with connections from ABC) not to mention Instagram came into the picture "authenticity" went out.   In my opinion Rachel is in this for more than just "true love" and I can't blame her for that.  If you are going to put your family through this, you should be in it for something.  Now everyone is on there thinking about being the "breakout" star. 

Just like on Unreal how the black suitor had to be "successful" for them to justify why white women would come on and date him, ABC's first Black lead  had to have a pedigree (a successful job and successful family) so that they could feel like white men would be willing to take her home to the family.  What family could find fault with someone whose father was a federal judge and had previously dated a star athlete?  Note also she apparently has a lot of diversity in her family.  They were very calculated in their choice. No matter how smart, beautiful, etc. Rachel would never have been lead if she had, say a background like Dean or Eric. 

I actually believe that maybe some people who were there in the first few years had good intentions.  I may be wrong, but if I read it correctly even Fantasy Suites (at least not how they do it now) was not a part of the equation?  My suspicion is that over the years to compete with other reality show formats the producers and editors started with more manipulation and upping the drama and since viewers keep coming back and ratings are steady they see no reason to change. 

As you say, I find the posters and viewers comments way more interesting than the show itself.  I also think that ABC is not concerned about a happy ending beyond the ratings of the final show in each series.  It doesn't bother them that the actual "success" rate of the relationships.  If that were the case, they would shift the focus from being a happily engaged couple at the end to the person just picking the one they had a greater connection to.  If it ends in an engagement later, then they can always come back and have a 1 hour special showing that ....say within 6 months.   I also wish they could have the lead bring along a "friend" from their normal life that they could check in with periodically throughout the show.   Some have mentioned that they leaned on producers or Chris Harrison for advice throughout the process, and you an only imagine how much they had the lead's best interest at heart! 

[comosedice]

15 minutes ago, adhoc said:

That said, back to last night: Peter looked stiff and uncomfortable at the family table. Didn't even pat Rachel's shoulder or some little fond touch you might expect from a suitor who really liked the bachelorette. 

I actually think being nervous because you want to make a good impression is normal and expected especially when you are being questioned? I thought as the day progressed he relaxed to the point where he was playing with the toddler (who remembered his name was Peter). My only issue with Peter is I wish he would soften some of what he says. Rachel could have sent him home right when he told her flat out that they were not in agreement on a fundamental issue, but he said it anyway. He was also very direct in saying that was not in love with Rachel to the family. Saying that he was falling in love would have been enough.

[TheFinalRose]

I could really respect Peter if he was saying I don't want to get engaged because it's too quick, AND it was obvious he was into her. But he's not into her. He just doesn't have the guts to do the right thing and leave. At least I am gaining a new found respect for Brooks, who actually cared that he would hurt Des in the end and exited at F3. At this point, Peter has turned into Mr. Wrong Reasons, i.e., "sticking around for the Bachelor gig" while simultaneously telling off the lead that she shouldn't expect too much. 

And he's not all that, either. His personality sucks, or is actually missing, IMO.

[HeyThere83]

I get the impression listening to Peter talk that he has been given advice in the past to be very direct, clear, etc. I sort of cringed a few times last night even though he didn't really say anything bad/wrong. I just think in general people aren't used to that approach.  It's interesting because not doing so actually tends to lead to more problems, misunderstandings, down the road.

[SnapeCharmer]

3 minutes ago, HeyThere83 said:

I get the impression listening to Peter talk that he has been given advice in the past to be very direct, clear, etc. I sort of cringed a few times last night even though he didn't really say anything bad/wrong. I just think in general people aren't used to that approach.  It's interesting because not doing so actually tends to lead to more problems, misunderstandings, down the road.

You think his therapist told him that?

[comosedice]

7 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

I could really respect Peter if he was saying I don't want to get engaged because it's too quick, AND it was obvious he was into her. But he's not into her. He just doesn't have the guts to do the right thing and leave. At least I am gaining a new found respect for Brooks, who actually cared that he would hurt Des in the end and exited at F3. At this point, Peter has turned into Mr. Wrong Reasons, i.e., "sticking around for the Bachelor gig" while simultaneously telling off the lead that she shouldn't expect too much. 

And he's not all that, either. His personality sucks, or is actually missing, IMO.

We see things differently because I think he is into her. He said he wants to continue their relationship, date before proposing. If she shared his stance on things, she could easily choose him and then there would be no Bachelor gig. Everyone is talking about Peter becoming the Bachelor like it is guaranteed. It isn't.

[truthaboutluv]

4 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

I could really respect Peter if he was saying I don't want to get engaged because it's too quick, AND it was obvious he was into her. But he's not into her. He just doesn't have the guts to do the right thing and leave. At least I am gaining a new found respect for Brooks, who actually cared that he would hurt Des in the end and exited at F3. At this point, Peter has turned into Mr. Wrong Reasons, i.e., "sticking around for the Bachelor gig" while simultaneously telling off the lead that she shouldn't expect too much. 

And he's not all that, either. His personality sucks, or is actually missing, IMO.

Say it louder. And you know the irony is that Brooks got raked across the coals by some even though the rumor was that he had contemplated leaving even earlier but the producers convinced him to stay. As I've said before, I look forward to when Peter is inevitably the Bachelor if Rachel doesn't pick him and he falls madly in love with someone and proposes in the same time span that was too quick for him with Rachel. Of course I'm sure we'll hear all through the season how he lost someone he suddenly decided he was in love with because he couldn't open up enough and so he won't make that mistake as the lead.

I thought there was something telling when Peter was being snooty as hell talking to Bryan. Putting aside his obvious seething disdain for Bryan for whatever reason, when he started talking about being bothered by sitting with her other boyfriend while another boyfriend is meeting the family, it occurred to me that Peter's real issue is that he resents having to compete for a woman. If the reaction online towards his apparent devastating looks is any indication into his normal life, he's probably gotten used to women chasing him. So he has no interest in doing it, which is why he will probably be far more comfortable in The Bachelor role where a bunch of women will be there fawning and chasing him and declaring him the greatest thing since sliced bread. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[SnapeCharmer]

12 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I watched Unreal because my friend was so Bachelor crazy and I wanted to see a more "fictionalized" version of the show to try to understand why she likes it so much because the idea of "real" people  going through this process was creepy to me .

Unfortunately I chose to watch the 2nd? season and never saw the first and was appalled at how the "show" handled race.  The reviews started coming and other viewers talked about how bad it was compared to the first season and how the writers really mishandled the season.  I feel like this show has done the same.  Unfortunately, however, these are "real" people coming on the show and although they are susceptible to some machinations by the producers/editors, etc. I agree with you, a lot of it is the contestants themselves.   Once free vacations, clothing, promotion, bar appearances, hosting opportunities, Dancing with the Stars, setting me up in my dream job (with connections from ABC) not to mention Instagram came into the picture "authenticity" went out.   In my opinion Rachel is in this for more than just "true love" and I can't blame her for that.  If you are going to put your family through this, you should be in it for something.  Now everyone is on there thinking about being the "breakout" star. 

Just like on Unreal how the black suitor had to be "successful" for them to justify why white women would come on and date him, ABC's first Black lead  had to have a pedigree (a successful job and successful family) so that they could feel like white men would be willing to take her home to the family.  What family could find fault with someone whose father was a federal judge and had previously dated a star athlete?  Note also she apparently has a lot of diversity in her family.  They were very calculated in their choice. No matter how smart, beautiful, etc. Rachel would never have been lead if she had, say a background like Dean or Eric. 

I actually believe that maybe some people who were there in the first few years had good intentions.  I may be wrong, but if I read it correctly even Fantasy Suites (at least not how they do it now) was not a part of the equation?  My suspicion is that over the years to compete with other reality show formats the producers and editors started with more manipulation and upping the drama and since viewers keep coming back and ratings are steady they see no reason to change. 

As you say, I find the posters and viewers comments way more interesting than the show itself.  I also think that ABC is not concerned about a happy ending beyond the ratings of the final show in each series.  It doesn't bother them that the actual "success" rate of the relationships.  If that were the case, they would shift the focus from being a happily engaged couple at the end to the person just picking the one they had a greater connection to.  If it ends in an engagement later, then they can always come back and have a 1 hour special showing that ....say within 6 months.   I also wish they could have the lead bring along a "friend" from their normal life that they could check in with periodically throughout the show.   Some have mentioned that they leaned on producers or Chris Harrison for advice throughout the process, and you an only imagine how much they had the lead's best interest at heart! 

I admit I've been out of The Bachelor Nick/Rachel are the first season's I've watched since Jake P. and Vienna, I don't know the details of the perks they get after the show ends. But wow, I mean the vacations, clothing, and exposure of being on television is enough to see why people do it. I didn't know that ABC sets them up with jobs too. Now, that really makes me wonder. Would I be willing to  fake romance and make a fool of myself on national television to have my dream job? Hmm.

[Kbilly]

Anyone notice that Eric doesn't ever touch her? Like when they are kissing he sits still while she kisses him? They have zero chemistry as a couple. I felt like her mom haaaated him.

I think it's sad that Rachel is so adamant that she doesn't want a boyfriend, she wants a fiance--- look at Jojo and Jordan or Shawn and Kaitlyn--does it really make a difference if she really likes/loves him? Alas,  I don't think Peter is all that into her. Which leaves Bryan as the consolation prize. When she said "I thought you were a douchebag" I chimed in "I STILL do!"

[Bobcatkitten]

I think it's funny that Rachel admits she thought Bryan was a douchebag until she got to know him better but then is upset at her family when their first impression of him also isn't good. 

I was really liking Rachel as the lead until the last few weeks. I thought she was a poised, classy intelligent woman but now she has devolved into every other Bachelorette begging for attention and affirmation and running and jumping up the men with her legs wrapped around them. Jeez girl. Let them come to you.

And her insistence on an engagement is baffling. It seems like she is saying she will choose a man she loves less than another simply because he doesn't want to go straight to an engagement. And that's gross. Way to go Judge Lindsey for not showing up for this mess.

[Stinamaia]

On 7/11/2017 at 0:58 PM, XoxoGG said:

I really really really don't like Bryan. But he seems to be the only one left checking off Rachel's wants. I think they have good physical chemistry but their entire relationship screams lust to me. I do not believe you fall in love on this show but fall in lust. The other guys including fan favorite Peter, just seem to not be clicking with Rachel THAT much. I do appreciate Peter being honest with Rachel because that is a very realistic way of thinking. My problem is, why even come on this show Peter? I don't believe for a second he didn't already know how this show works. Peter seems like a smart calculating man, I'm pretty sure he did his homework and researched Rachel. Peter is the next Bachelor and I am going to give him a huge side eye because he is telling Rachel he's  not ready to be engaged but when you become the Bachelor engagement is almost 100% happening and he knows this. Seems to contradict what he told her at the dinner date.  Peter needs more therapy because there still seems to be something wrong there. I think the guy has commitment issues.  But Peter is there just like everyone else, for screentime. He wants to promote his business.

The only reason I want Rachel to pick Peter is so he won't be the Bachelor. He is insanely boring to me.  I mean even more boring than Sean.   Looking good cannot overcome boring.

[truthaboutluv]

Just now, Stinamaia said:

The only reason I want Rachel to pick Peter is so he won't be the Bachelor. He is insanely boring to me.  I mean even more boring than Sean.   Looking good cannot overcome boring.

Judging by the reactions I see online for Peter, unfortunately you and I maybe be in the minority on that sentiment. Trust me, I get it but yeah, the fanaticism that seems to have developed around this guy, if Rachel doesn't pick him, no way they don't make him the next Bachelor. 

[LilJen]

24 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

As I've said before, I look forward to when Peter is inevitably the Bachelor if Rachel doesn't pick him and he falls madly in love with someone and proposes in the same time span that was too quick for him with Rachel. Of course I'm sure we'll hear all through the season how he lost someone he suddenly decided he was in love with because he couldn't open up enough and so he won't make that mistake as the lead.

Oh yes, this will DEFINITELY be the storyline. Over and over we'll be told how he learned he needed to let his guard down.

4 hours ago, DEL901 said:

And I was thinking... why do the men have to propose?  It should be the Bachelorette, shouldn't it?

Exactly. She should be the one proposing. *I think she wants a no-risk win here.* Thus the forcing an "I love you/am falling in love with you" from every guy and forcing the guys to say they'll get engaged. Heaven forbid one of them should turn down her proposal.

1 hour ago, Alapaki said:

I lost a lot of respect for Rachel last night.

She told Peter that she doesn't want to end up "just dating a boyfriend", rather she wants an "engagement".

She then proceeded to define "engagement" as, essentially, "just dating a boyfriend."

You said it better than I did. The rest of the world thinks "engagement" = "we WILL get married." She thinks "engagement" = I don't know, seriously dating? Committed dating? I have no clue.