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bigskygirl

S05.E05: A Boy or Girl For Jill?

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I agree that Spurgie has spunk and responds to his parents. However I believe Jessa is very TV savvy and tries to edit herself to what we see and don't see. For me, parenting is the hardest and equally most rewarding job I've ever done. But it is in no way sunshine and unicorns all the time.  Jessa saying it'll take time for Spurgie to adjust to Henry implies she'll be patient and kind with him, but it doesn't make it so. 

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22 hours ago, latetotheparty said:

I call bullshit on that.  It's all about Jim Bob.

So the M stands for "Me Me Me Male Male Male"? 

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On 7/5/2017 at 3:18 PM, sATL said:

 

1) what kind of car was Joy driving to her future in-laws house? Looks kinda fancy for something found at an auction.

I'd bet heavily that there's a big old patched-up crack right across the chassis. 

It's a Duggar car lot. 

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8 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I'd bet heavily that there's a big old patched-up crack right across the chassis. 

It's a Duggar car lot. 

And probably a diesel. 

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2 hours ago, Barb23 said:

When they were at the table, I thought Spurgie grabbed for his sippy cup & said "milk" & Jessa pulled it out of his reach rather than giving it to him.  It happened when they first sat down & I thought he must be thirsty.  Poor kid.  I'm hoping I saw it wrong.

As I recall, she did hand him his cup after he'd eaten a few bites.  I know plenty of toddlers who would fill up on milk and then not eat solid foods, so it didn't bother me that she made him eat some eggs first before giving him a drink.  Although, as others have noted, it would've been nice to see him eat a banana or some apple or orange slices for a more balanced meal.

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3 hours ago, Barb23 said:

When they were at the table, I thought Spurgie grabbed for his sippy cup & said "milk" & Jessa pulled it out of his reach rather than giving it to him.  It happened when they first sat down & I thought he must be thirsty.  Poor kid.  I'm hoping I saw it wrong.

My aunt would  not let her kids drink anything  whIle they were eating , she said they would  fill up  on the liquid  and not eat the food. They were able to drink whatever  amount  they wanted  after they ate.

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I'm not sure Jessa is too concerned with his fluid intake as Spurgie is often shown with either sippy cup or a bottle in many pictures, as well as on the show. I was kind of surprised she put him to bed with a bottle, I didn't think modern day moms did that.

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9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not sure Jessa is too concerned with his fluid intake as Spurgie is often shown with either sippy cup or a bottle in many pictures, as well as on the show. I was kind of surprised she put him to bed with a bottle, I didn't think modern day moms did that.

MODERN DAY MOMS usually don't.  But these are the Duggers!!!   How modern are they, really? Mid twentieth century??

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2 minutes ago, pinguina said:

MODERN DAY MOMS usually don't.  But these are the Duggers!!!   How modern are they, really? Mid twentieth century??

LOL. I hit submit and actually chuckled at my faux pas and almost went back to qualify it.

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4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

So the M stands for "Me Me Me Male Male Male"? 

No no no!  I meant the idea that the younger Duggars would be crestfallen to not have a J name.  The M names are totally to suck up to Michelle.

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7 hours ago, Barb23 said:

When they were at the table, I thought Spurgie grabbed for his sippy cup & said "milk" & Jessa pulled it out of his reach rather than giving it to him.  It happened when they first sat down & I thought he must be thirsty.  Poor kid.  I'm hoping I saw it wrong.

Maybe Jessa pulled the cup out of his reach so he couldn't throw it!  He woke up pretty grumpy and Jessa mentioned that he sometimes threw the cup.  She wrote about that in the Fathers Day letter, saying Ben researched until he found a sippy cup that wouldn't leak when thrown.  But maybe they do leak, and that's why she put it out of reach.

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8 hours ago, latetotheparty said:

No no no!  I meant the idea that the younger Duggars would be crestfallen to not have a J name.  The M names are totally to suck up to Michelle.

Oh, I see! Got it!

Jizm Bob may still think they stand for Me Me Me Male Male Male, though, I'm guessing. lol

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Where does Ben work?  Seems he went to work AFTER Henry was born but was always there before.  Seems his interest was in some kind of silly rap band but I have never heard of any real WORK.

If anything I expect one of the guys to crack.  These are young men.  I wonder if they want to devote their life to having kids and more kids.  Ben did mention he was overwhelmed with dirty diapers.  Ugg.  More to come Ben...more to come.

I can't believe the Dillards are going back to SA.  What's wrong with them or is that their story line 'we live on the edge'.  lol  I wonder too if they are still in the collecting for missionary work business.  Would be interesting to see how much they are making to do the Lord's work. 

They won't be there long because they are coming home to do 'TLC's work' in just a few months! 

Derrick looks just awful.  I looked at him when they first married and he has aged at least 10 years.  I know he had mouth surgery but he looks really bad and sloppy and unclean.  Jill on the other hand looks radiant. 

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6 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Where does Ben work? 

He doesn't work. He allegedly dabbles in doing handyman projects for Boob, but I think that's a lie.  Jessa is very much aware of the fact that Derick gets slammed for not having a job, so she's making a point to show Bin going to "work" in every episode and showing herself alone with the kids. Aside from filming for TLC, I don't think they do much else.

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1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

He doesn't work. He allegedly dabbles in doing handyman projects for Boob, but I think that's a lie.  Jessa is very much aware of the fact that Derick gets slammed for not having a job, so she's making a point to show Bin going to "work" in every episode and showing herself alone with the kids. Aside from filming for TLC, I don't think they do much else.

I bet I know what he's doing.  Didn't Jessa and Jill go to look at a rehab home with a swimming pool in the center?  I bet JimBob has found a home and Ben is on the crew to rehab it.  That along with getting away from childcare and dirty diapers.  How old is Ben?  I think he's under 25?

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43 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I bet I know what he's doing.  Didn't Jessa and Jill go to look at a rehab home with a swimming pool in the center?  I bet JimBob has found a home and Ben is on the crew to rehab it.  That along with getting away from childcare and dirty diapers.  How old is Ben?  I think he's under 25?

Just googled it. He JUST turned 22 in May.

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16 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Just googled it. He JUST turned 22 in May.

So, assuming they just keep on making those babies and don't adopt any, Bin will be the father of at least seven or eight kids by the time he hits 30. If they also adopt, he could be a double-digit dad by then.

Didn't he want to sire a whole football them? Or was it basketball?

He's well on his way. And, no problem about finances. The Duggars will be on TLC until hell freezes over, and maybe after that. Each baby = People magazine exclusive + coverage in an episode on TLC. In other words, money, good old TLC and People checks that don't bounce.

Edited by Jeeves
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On 7/4/2017 at 8:31 AM, Fuzzysox said:

Sadly my first cousin were raised to speak English not Italian. I speak Italian because I was born there and it's my first language. I'm proud to be bi-lingual. I don't see any harm in having a second language under your belt.

My dad was told NOT to speak Italian. They were the only Italians in town at a time when people were pretty biased against Italians, and Catholics in general.

 

On 7/4/2017 at 11:37 AM, BitterApple said:

Austin seems like a decent kid, but the Forsyths are a strange family. I really liked when Austin chided his brother-in-law for digging into his food before the rest of the family sat down. I mean, if it's just Mr. Bitter Apple and I, I'm not picky about that sort of thing, but if I have an invited guest I would never start eating until everyone was seated. 

I also think Forsyth Sr. is a total dick. He cares more that Joy and Austin remain virgins until marriage than he does about whether they're compatible or not. It's totally cool Joy doesn't even know what Austin likes for dessert so long as they're not getting it on in one of those empty houses he reno'd.

Count me in with those who think elaborate gender reveals are exhausting. Just tell me what you're having and cut the damn cake. And stay off my lawn while you're at it. I don't know if it's a Millenial thing or an under-30 thing or what, but every life event doesn't need to be scripted and choreographed like a freaking Broadway production. *sigh*

Remember when a gender reveal was  a phone call from the new dad from the hospital waiting room, yelling "It's a girl!"?

On 7/5/2017 at 3:46 PM, humbleopinion said:

Joy was solo in the Benz...bumping to some inspirational blah blah blah on the radio/CD player.

TLC crew filmed her driving up to the Forsyth house.

Low bar for "genius" label...squish the sides of a baked tater together.

 

3 planks of wood over the couch at Jill's house...ugly..stupid..why?

Chelle shouldn't have coffee before her camera time, she blew into the foyer chattering like a squirrel...

First time seeing Djerick with his hair down...looks worse than the manbun if that is possible

The things is, the Duggar kids have been SO isolated that they have never seen how anyone else does things. Even how they eat a baked potato or mix their coffee.

On 7/5/2017 at 6:19 PM, kalamac said:

If Cathy wants a girl that much she should take one of the lost girls under her wing. We all know they're starved for positive attention.

In my mind, I just heard Holly Hunter in Raising Arizona. "You go in there and get me a baby, HI. She's got more'n she can handle!"

18 hours ago, doodlebug said:

As I recall, she did hand him his cup after he'd eaten a few bites.  I know plenty of toddlers who would fill up on milk and then not eat solid foods, so it didn't bother me that she made him eat some eggs first before giving him a drink.  Although, as others have noted, it would've been nice to see him eat a banana or some apple or orange slices for a more balanced meal.

Not sure this a fair criticism. My pediatrician told me when kids are that little, you need to balance their food groups, but like over a week, not a meal. They will have days when they refuse to eat anything except grapes. Another day it's cheese. You just roll with and it and try to get in all the food groups over time.

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22 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I'd bet heavily that there's a big old patched-up crack right across the chassis. 

It's a Duggar car lot. 

It's probably held together with Gorilla Glue.

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12 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Oh, I see! Got it!

Jizm Bob may still think they stand for Me Me Me Male Male Male, though, I'm guessing. lol

This would not surprise me.  :)

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4 hours ago, ariel said:

It's probably held together with Gorilla Glue.

Gorilla Glue?? You must mean G-glue from Dollar Tree, silly.

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12 hours ago, MamaMax said:

My dad was told NOT to speak Italian. They were the only Italians in town at a time when people were pretty biased against Italians, and Catholics in general.

 

Remember when a gender reveal was  a phone call from the new dad from the hospital waiting room, yelling "It's a girl!"?

The things is, the Duggar kids have been SO isolated that they have never seen how anyone else does things. Even how they eat a baked potato or mix their coffee.

Yeah, I don't think it's that unusual to be tacitly or even explicitly forbidden from using the language of origin.  My father doesn't know any Polish anymore, and he emigrated with a whole batch of older family Polish speakers when he was elementary school age in the 60s.  You were expected to assimilate, and some families might even have had the attitude that they should only speak "American" and not come off as "uneducated hicks from the Old Country" - as they, after all, left said Old Country to go to America in the first place.

As for the coffee thing, I also remember a friend with a master's degree (and now doctorate), quite seriously being in awe of another  friend teaching her that... you can make hot restaurant tea drinkable temperature by the judicious addition of ice cubes.  

So I'm going to give the Duggars a pass on being astonished about the coffee and potatoes " 'cuz they're stupid".

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On July 3, 2017 at 6:51 PM, mythoughtis said:

We don't have a 'legal' language here. Most legal documents are in English. Immigrants and their families have long spoken their language of origin.   There are  many areas where immigrants and their descendants are clustered and speak their native languages 95% of the time. 

Thank you my thoughts.

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On 7/4/2017 at 11:37 AM, BitterApple said:

Count me in with those who think elaborate gender reveals are exhausting.

I blame the Internet.

Oh social media, how you bedevil me.

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On July 3, 2017 at 7:59 PM, asuwur said:

Actually it appeared to be a piece of provolone because it was round and white....much like a Duggar face...

Thanks! You actually made me laugh out loud.

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I wouldn't give a one year old a "slice" of provolone cheese. First of all, that's not good provolone, it's deli style and just not good when eaten alone. Not good judgement on Jessa's part IMO.

The thing about language to me, is that my grandparents and parents didn't expect everyone in this country to speak and understand THEIR language, like many immigrants do today. If the older folks didn't learn English, like my grands, they relied on their children to 'translate'. It's good for us to have a common language,, which is bonding for a nation. Just my opinion.

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Why did Jessa brush Spurgeons teeth, and then they had breakfast, and even if the timeline was out, she def offered him a cracker as they were leaving the bathroom

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I rewatched the episode last nite.  I didn't realize Dan & Deena had to suffer thru the Gender Reveal as well as Jana & the older Duggars.  But where were Jessa & Ben?  Was this around the time when she had Henry? Even so, a new baby or waiting for one usually doesn't stop them from going anywhere.  I agree that Jackson seemed to old for the game &  both teams would have had trouble without the picture clues. Even the "team captains" drove me nuts. (Forgot who they were).  They sure took their job seriously -"my job as team captain is to....."  Geez, it's just a game, lighten up. I thought it was cute Izzy kept his glasses on. 

BTW, I worked for a pediatrician who gave the same advice about kid's eating.  He admitted there were weeks when his one daughter would eat nothing but boxed Kraft Macaroni & Cheese.  I remember days when my son would not eat any dinner.  

MamaMax - loved your post about the Gender Reveal happening at the baby's birth.  My husband & I wanted to be surprised so we chose not to find out ahead of time.  Oh, the good old days........

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8 hours ago, queenanne said:

Yeah, I don't think it's that unusual to be tacitly or even explicitly forbidden from using the language of origin.  My father doesn't know any Polish anymore, and he emigrated with a whole batch of older family Polish speakers when he was elementary school age in the 60s.  You were expected to assimilate, and some families might even have had the attitude that they should only speak "American" and not come off as "uneducated hicks from the Old Country" - as they, after all, left said Old Country to go to America in the first place.

As for the coffee thing, I also remember a friend with a master's degree (and now doctorate), quite seriously being in awe of another  friend teaching her that... you can make hot restaurant tea drinkable temperature by the judicious addition of ice cubes.  

So I'm going to give the Duggars a pass on being astonished about the coffee and potatoes " 'cuz they're stupid".

My father, on the other hand, was staunchly Polish all his life. Polish was my first language, and as I grew up and English began to be easier for me, I'd forever be getting rebuked, yelled at and guilted ("you have no idea how much you hurt me") when I lapsed into English at home (my parents though they speak/spoke English with accents were very fluent in it) or showed a preference for English/American culture in general. In retrospect, I do appreciate that they taught me Polish, but I got so resentful towards it by the time I grew up that we sort of reached a truce of them speaking to me in Polish while I spoke in English. I still CAN speak Polish if I need to, though my spoken vocabulary has dwindled even though I understand pretty much everything as long as it's within general conversational terms...but though I'm not typically a stubborn person, after I stopped speaking Polish to him, and knew my skill had atrophied, I never could bring myself to speak Polish around my father for the rest of his life. It sounds so petty and spiteful, and I kind of hate myself for it, but I just couldn't do it.

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41 minutes ago, cereality said:

I don't even know that much about kids/child rearing and yet it seems to me that in about 50% of the footage, Derick comes across as disappointed with/irritated by Iz's seemingly age appropriate behavior.

It's possible that Cathy and Rick ran and a tight ship and that's what he's used to and that's how he wants to raise his boy. But it also seems to me that a HUGE part of this is that Derick was NOT ready for marriage or kids. He leaves on a mission at 22, but first setting up a pen pal relationship with JB probably thinking it'd get him a girl; he practically orders up a mail order marriage when he's within 6 months of his Nepal departure date. Then he comes back here and instead of getting to know the girl as a girlfriend, dating casually etc. -- he realizes that 100% would not be allowed and he doesn't want to lose the girl, so he proposes within weeks of getting home, gets married like 3 months later, and bc they're fundie crazy and will not even consider BC or rhythm or anything, gets her pregnant on the honeymoon. All of this is while he's coping with his mom being incredibly sick -- having lost his other parent only 5-6 yrs prior. But no - there's no way they could act normal and just be boyfriend and girlfriend for a while and put off the wedding. Then he gets married and realizes he doesn't know he wife AT ALL and she is NOTHING like she portrayed when they Skyped or went out to eat with her siblings a handful of times. I'd venture to guess that he told her he was an accountant; I'd venture to guess he also told her that he was taking an accounting job but his real love was the mission field and if the opportunity presented itself, he'd want to go back. I'd venture to guess she eagerly nodded along and said OMG that's exactly what I want too. Fast forward a few months and he realizes he's married a stage 5 clinger who won't let him hold down the accounting job unless she can sit in the cafeteria so then he says screw it -- let's go to the mission field -- and there she is scared of the locals and loud noises.

I think he has likely lost all patience with his home life. I think he realizes that Jill is unteachable and will not change bc she doesn't want to change (contrast Jinger - wearing pants; not trying to get pregnant on day regardless of what her family expects; learning Spanish etc). So now I think he's just annoyed and takes it out on Iz when he wants to lecture for 15 min about a new baby and a 2 yr old runs off and hops in his toy car. I wouldn't be surprised if at some level the massive weight loss (in addition to do with dental surgery) has something to do with some depression or anxiety as he realizes -- OMG this is IT for LIFE!?

OMG. Nailed it.

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I wondered if Derick dated much or at all before Jill came along. She might have been the first girl to give him the time of day just like he was the first guy to give her the time of day.

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I know Derick's mother found out she was ill after returning to the USA with Derick meeting Jill AND HER WHOLE FAMILY at the airport but I would think even though she was ill, she would have advised him heavily to hold off on engagement to a young, inexperienced girl he had just met. Perhaps she did but it was never mentioned. Can't help but wonder how Cathy felt about rushing in to marriage? When they called her about Izzy being on the way, she genuinely looked shocked and said "so soon???!!". What did this educated, professional woman think? She knew the family her son was marrying in to. I wonder what role Cathy played in Derick's life growing up...how involved, strict or laxed SHE was as a parent...did his father do the correcting and guiding talks himself?

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I can't blame Cathy for Derick's rush to marry bc he was 24 -- 24 yr old men tend not to ask mom's permission for that sort of thing. Plus down south, 24 is a very common marriage age for grooms -- 2 yrs out of college, having sown their oats/gotten some adventure out of the way and ready to settle into a career job and pay a mortgage. That's exactly where Derick was -- gotten Nepal out of the way, picked up a white collar professional job that'd provide for a wife and family so on paper it was all good. Plus Cathy was SO ill during the short courtship and engagement, that it's likely that she didn't realize how it was going down. She probably did not realize that her son had NEVER had a private Skype conversation with his wife to be bc her parents were always seated 2 ft away. She probably didn't realize that he had never been to dinner alone with Jill bc every dinner involved bringing 3 of her sisters. She was so ill that she didn't even have a sense of who Jill was -- so she couldn't tip off Derick to the fact that she seems like the kind of girl who says what is expected or echoes back his opinion, rather than clearly saying -- no I don't want to live overseas ever but I guess we can do 1-2 of those 2 week summer mission trips if you wanted. I feel like if Cathy were well, the courtship could have been a little longer and a touch more honest bc some of the dates may have involved hanging out at Cathy's house like normal young adults -- i.e. you eat dinner with his mom; then you go into the family room just the 2 of you and can talk or kiss or watch a movie and maybe mom pops in and out once or twice but she's not there glaring at you as you say -- well I'm one of 2 kids so maybe 2-3 but I don't think I could deal with as many as God gives us . . . .

It's also possible that Cathy was so ill that she was thinking emotionally -- OMG what will happen, I am these boys' last parent. Maybe it's good that Derick gets married to Jill asap -- he'll have a family, a home, and someone to take care of him, he won't be alone in the world; and it's good for Dan too bc then Dan will have a home to spend Christmas and Thanksgiving at and that'll make him less lonely until he finds a wife or even if he doesn't find oneetc. Not saying it's rational, but it is quite possible that at that moment all she wanted was for her sons not to be left alone - without thinking that hard about who they'd be stuck with for life.

I have a sense that Derick had NO or almost no dating experience. Maybe there was a girlfriend in high school for a few weeks, but typically the kind of guys that can get themselves girls in college don't sign themselves up for an arranged marriage at age 24; even if they graduate without a girlfriend, they have enough confidence that they can meet the one on their own, thru friends, etc. I remember an episode where Cathy said that she had warned the boys re the perils of casual dating -- including that it's expensive. It is to an extent but in college it really isn't -- often "dating" in college involves hanging out in dorm rooms or at free campus activities or eating together in the cafeteria or whatever. I think Derick didn't date in college, was super nervous as he approached 24 that he wouldn't find a girl to settle down with, knew that on paper a conservative Christian with a college degree is a good match so he got it done asap via arranged marriage but then got himself stuck someplace he didn't expect.

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I think Jill and Derp had the most restrictive courtship. Bin and Jessa seemed a little more tuned into each other, and it wouldn't surprise me if Jinger was often called upon to chaperone and 'disappear'.  I bet Jill would follow the rules to the letter even if a lost boy suggested he was bribable. and possibly turn in the brother. Jinger was constantly on the phone with Jeremy, so we know they managed private conversations. Jill and Derick were not allowed to have any conversation without the ridiculous Dugg parents intruding. We saw Joy take off to see Austin without a Dugg. Jill took a brother everywhere. I guess that should have been our first clue that Derp was going to be more Dugg than a Dugg. 

One of the Duggs will eventually do things their own way. It's evolving,  just like the prairie dresses. 

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2 hours ago, sometimesy said:

I think Jill and Derp had the most restrictive courtship. Bin and Jessa seemed a little more tuned into each other, and it wouldn't surprise me if Jinger was often called upon to chaperone and 'disappear'.  I bet Jill would follow the rules to the letter even if a lost boy suggested he was bribable. and possibly turn in the brother. Jinger was constantly on the phone with Jeremy, so we know they managed private conversations. Jill and Derick were not allowed to have any conversation without the ridiculous Dugg parents intruding. We saw Joy take off to see Austin without a Dugg. Jill took a brother everywhere. I guess that should have been our first clue that Derp was going to be more Dugg than a Dugg. 

One of the Duggs will eventually do things their own way. It's evolving,  just like the prairie dresses. 

Jill was also the first girl courtship. Coming from a conservative religious immigrant family -- I can tell you the paranoia is the greatest when a first daughter is dating/getting married and parents want to hover bc they are convinced that no guy ever just wants to have pizza with the girl and talk, all he wants is to put his d!ck in. Then when they start to realize guy #1 wasn't like that, they start to believe that maybe there are decent guys out there who won't force the daughter into anything -- so subsequent daughters have it much easier. And to top it off Jill herself was/is a kool aid drinker. So she would NEVER have thought -- hmm, let's go on a date to an arcade and I'll bribe the 10 yr old chaperone with 90 min worth of video gaming tickets and all the soda he wants and then Derick and I can sit in the corner and talk and make out or whatever. Meanwhile the savvier girls -- Jing and Jessa - were watching and making mental notes as to how they'd handle their courtship; who'd be the best chaperones bc they'd allow for the most privacy etc. While JB and Michelle made a huge deal of family texts with Jessa and Jill's boyfriends - with the amount of time that Jing was shown texting/talking - I'm fairly sure she had a text chain with mom and dad where they'd trade bible verses 1x/day and then had a separate one with just her and Jer to talk all day every day like a normal couple. It's not that hard to do it - esp. if you have something like imessaging or a texting app - so the number of texts aren't showing up on your phone bill. Yet if Derick had suggested something like that, kool aid drinker Jill would have run and tell daddy that maybe Derick wasn't a righteous man.

Honestly I think the same thing extends to baby making as well. It's not outside the realm of belief that Derick subtly suggested - hey let's just have fun on our honeymoon - esp after the stress of the wedding, his mom etc., plenty of time to make babies later, how about condoms for this one trip. And Jill did not allow it bc she needed to live up to her family's expectation that there will be babies asap. Jing on the other hand likely relented without feeling the guilt of - what will JB and Michelle think; in fact she may even have been relieved to not have to experience pregnancy immediately and just ease into everything with Jer.

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5 hours ago, cereality said:

I can't blame Cathy for Derick's rush to marry bc he was 24 -- 24 yr old men tend not to ask mom's permission for that sort of thing. Plus down south, 24 is a very common marriage age for grooms -- 2 yrs out of college, having sown their oats/gotten some adventure out of the way and ready to settle into a career job and pay a mortgage. That's exactly where Derick was -- gotten Nepal out of the way, picked up a white collar professional job that'd provide for a wife and family so on paper it was all good. Plus Cathy was SO ill during the short courtship and engagement, that it's likely that she didn't realize how it was going down. She probably did not realize that her son had NEVER had a private Skype conversation with his wife to be bc her parents were always seated 2 ft away. She probably didn't realize that he had never been to dinner alone with Jill bc every dinner involved bringing 3 of her sisters. She was so ill that she didn't even have a sense of who Jill was -- so she couldn't tip off Derick to the fact that she seems like the kind of girl who says what is expected or echoes back his opinion, rather than clearly saying -- no I don't want to live overseas ever but I guess we can do 1-2 of those 2 week summer mission trips if you wanted. I feel like if Cathy were well, the courtship could have been a little longer and a touch more honest bc some of the dates may have involved hanging out at Cathy's house like normal young adults -- i.e. you eat dinner with his mom; then you go into the family room just the 2 of you and can talk or kiss or watch a movie and maybe mom pops in and out once or twice but she's not there glaring at you as you say -- well I'm one of 2 kids so maybe 2-3 but I don't think I could deal with as many as God gives us . . . .

It's also possible that Cathy was so ill that she was thinking emotionally -- OMG what will happen, I am these boys' last parent. Maybe it's good that Derick gets married to Jill asap -- he'll have a family, a home, and someone to take care of him, he won't be alone in the world; and it's good for Dan too bc then Dan will have a home to spend Christmas and Thanksgiving at and that'll make him less lonely until he finds a wife or even if he doesn't find oneetc. Not saying it's rational, but it is quite possible that at that moment all she wanted was for her sons not to be left alone - without thinking that hard about who they'd be stuck with for life.

I have a sense that Derick had NO or almost no dating experience. Maybe there was a girlfriend in high school for a few weeks, but typically the kind of guys that can get themselves girls in college don't sign themselves up for an arranged marriage at age 24; even if they graduate without a girlfriend, they have enough confidence that they can meet the one on their own, thru friends, etc. I remember an episode where Cathy said that she had warned the boys re the perils of casual dating -- including that it's expensive. It is to an extent but in college it really isn't -- often "dating" in college involves hanging out in dorm rooms or at free campus activities or eating together in the cafeteria or whatever. I think Derick didn't date in college, was super nervous as he approached 24 that he wouldn't find a girl to settle down with, knew that on paper a conservative Christian with a college degree is a good match so he got it done asap via arranged marriage but then got himself stuck someplace he didn't expect.

I agree with a lot of what you say here.

Cathy was just so ill at the time, and also, parents tend to be more emotionally invested in the well being of their daughters than sons. Not that Moms & Dads don't love their adult sons, but excepting a major issue (like an illness or addiction) they often "stay out of their business", especially in conservative families. Girls are taught to confide and look to their parents more, boys are taught to "be men" and make decisions. 

I could see Derrick just showing up one day and saying "I'm engaged" and that being the end of the discussion. 

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1 hour ago, cereality said:

Jill was also the first girl courtship. Coming from a conservative religious immigrant family -- I can tell you the paranoia is the greatest when a first daughter is dating/getting married and parents want to hover bc they are convinced that no guy ever just wants to have pizza with the girl and talk, all he wants is to put his d!ck in. Then when they start to realize guy #1 wasn't like that, they start to believe that maybe there are decent guys out there who won't force the daughter into anything -- so subsequent daughters have it much easier. And to top it off Jill herself was/is a kool aid drinker. So she would NEVER have thought -- hmm, let's go on a date to an arcade and I'll bribe the 10 yr old chaperone with 90 min worth of video gaming tickets and all the soda he wants and then Derick and I can sit in the corner and talk and make out or whatever. Meanwhile the savvier girls -- Jing and Jessa - were watching and making mental notes as to how they'd handle their courtship; who'd be the best chaperones bc they'd allow for the most privacy etc. While JB and Michelle made a huge deal of family texts with Jessa and Jill's boyfriends - with the amount of time that Jing was shown texting/talking - I'm fairly sure she had a text chain with mom and dad where they'd trade bible verses 1x/day and then had a separate one with just her and Jer to talk all day every day like a normal couple. It's not that hard to do it - esp. if you have something like imessaging or a texting app - so the number of texts aren't showing up on your phone bill. Yet if Derick had suggested something like that, kool aid drinker Jill would have run and tell daddy that maybe Derick wasn't a righteous man.

Honestly I think the same thing extends to baby making as well. It's not outside the realm of belief that Derick subtly suggested - hey let's just have fun on our honeymoon - esp after the stress of the wedding, his mom etc., plenty of time to make babies later, how about condoms for this one trip. And Jill did not allow it bc she needed to live up to her family's expectation that there will be babies asap. Jing on the other hand likely relented without feeling the guilt of - what will JB and Michelle think; in fact she may even have been relieved to not have to experience pregnancy immediately and just ease into everything with Jer.

Yes you are so correct that Jill was the first girl to court AND she was the biggest kool-aid drinker. Also JB & M are parents to JOSH, who couldn't be trusted around his own sisters, in their minds every guy is a predator.

 

(Bolding mine) I don't think condoms would've even crossed Derrick's mind. I think like a lot of people (educated or not), they think they can have penile-vagina intercourse and pregnancy won't happen to them "until they are ready". I think Jill wanted babies right away, I like like a lot of men Derrick just wanted to have sex (I can believe he was a virgin at marriage) and they got a honeymoon baby. 

 

Jeremy I can see slowing the baby roll with condoms; given he was a heathen and we haven't heard any rumors about him having children. 

Edited by Scarlett45
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from yahoo.com

They're now a family of four! Jill Duggar gave birth to her second baby on Saturday, July 8 — welcoming a son named Samuel with her husband Derick Dillard! The couple revealed details of their baby boy's birth on their official website. "We are excited to finally announce the arrival of Samuel Scott Dillard! The newest addition to our family arrived on Saturday, July 8, 2017, at 1:02 pm," the statement read. "He weighs [nine pounds], 10 [ounces] and is 22 [inches] long. After 40 hours of labor, he was delivered via C-section at the hospital.

Edited by sATL
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My big takeaway from this episode: Josie the Miracle Licker was wearing PANTS during the "jinder reveal." I actually paused the stream to eyeball it. I saw no skirt with leggings under it. I saw a shirt, jeans and cowboy boots. Am I high (on Jesus, not drugs, duh!) or did that happen?

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6 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

My big takeaway from this episode: Josie the Miracle Licker was wearing PANTS during the "jinder reveal." I actually paused the stream to eyeball it. I saw no skirt with leggings under it. I saw a shirt, jeans and cowboy boots. Am I high (on Jesus, not drugs, duh!) or did that happen?

There was probably no clean clothes since the Laundry Slave (Jinger) is no longer around to fluff and fold. She probably had to borrow a pair of the boys' old jeans to wear for the day. 

Edited by BitterApple
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So Jill labored for 40 hours and then had a c section!? I assume most/all of that labor was at home like last time and then when something went wrong they went to the hospital and hemmed and hawed re a c section for their 10 lb baby!? These morons are going to cause themselves serious damage before all is said and done if they continue to act this way re medical procedures.

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8 hours ago, cereality said:

So Jill labored for 40 hours and then had a c section!? I assume most/all of that labor was at home like last time and then when something went wrong they went to the hospital and hemmed and hawed re a c section for their 10 lb baby!? These morons are going to cause themselves serious damage before all is said and done if they continue to act this way re medical procedures.

I'm a little surprised that no-one could predict that her baby would be 9+ pounds and that precautions should be taken given delivery #1 was via c-sect after a long labor.  A little common sense should have crept in too.  I just don't get why getting a full-fledged licensed, experienced and medically trained OB-GYN advice is a sin in their little world. There's not a teaching in their home-school Bible classes, about seeking wisdom from others ??

Edited by sATL
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Sorry but I am shocked that Jill labored 40 hours with that big baby.  That's what women did in the 60's with no ultra sounds and no idea the size of the baby.  They had to know this baby was big and Jill with all her 'midwife' training had to know consequences.

What's with these girls.  I don't know but I would think there is also risk to the babies.

All that and in the end a c-section as she had previously.  Really.

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Jackson appears to be very immature for 13.  Justin who is 1 yr older seems more in line with wanting to be with his older brothers, yet Jackson seems to be lumped in with the little kids!  I can't even picture my teen boys wanting to participate in a gender  reveal game.

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