S13.E06: Week 6: Denmark

[Venee]

3 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

I would love to know what Rachel thinks now, watching how TPTB turned her season into the Lee And Kenny Show. I'd be all in for a black Bachelor next season. I don't see race or color, I just saw some hot guys being sent home (Diggy, Will, Anthony, Alex). Okay, so I had to toss Alex in there. LOL!

I just don't think there will be a Black Bachelor anytime soon. The masses will have to be content with " Flavor of Love" and that other Football "Ultimate Catch" show with Chad Occocinco".... (digs hole and jumps in from shame that I remember those shows) lol

2 hours ago, Koala said:

Bryan is just so smarmy! Rachel clearly adores him, but I have trouble taking anything he says seriously.

 

Bryan: "When we peel back those layers, it's gonna be that [much] more special. Like, do you realize how it's gonna be?"

Rachel: "...No."

Bryan: "You don't, you don't; that's the thing, so --"

Rachel: "Do you?"

Bryan: "I can envision it."

Rachel: "Okay."

Bryan: "And it's magical."

 

Groan.

What is he even saying here? It's complete gibberish! As I said earlier, it may be producer driven, but I have yet to see a meaningful coherent conversation between them.....

[Canada]

I can't totally disagree with what Josiah was saying during his leaving speech.... Rachel really does have terrible taste in men.  You have to feel sorry for all the black guys involved in this franchise; even with a black Bachelorette, they're still all being sent home in favour of the white guys.  Ugly white guys.

[NeverLate]

41 minutes ago, Canada said:

I can't totally disagree with what Josiah was saying during his leaving speech.... Rachel really does have terrible taste in men.  You have to feel sorry for all the black guys involved in this franchise; even with a black Bachelorette, they're still all being sent home in favour of the white guys.  Ugly white guys.

she only has eyes for one.( shrug)

[yorklee2]

4 hours ago, Venee said:

As I said earlier, it may be producer driven, but I have yet to see a meaningful coherent conversation between them.....

She did ask him if he had thought about the possibility he might have to move and how that would work for him. He answered as long as he was in love they would make it work and he had no worries. He's a chiropractor so I'm not sure how easy it would be to reestablish himself in another location. I would think it wouldn't be too hard but I really have no idea.

She also asked how his family would react to a woman of color and of course he said they would love her and things would be great. She had these same questions for, and discussed with, Peter on night one and their first one on one date. He even made the comment they would likely have children with gap teeth. He's way ahead of the curve on the important questions and topics and I think Rachel believes he would be more stable and trustworthy than Bryan. On the other hand she has a intense chemistry with Bryan but I think Rachel doesn't totally trust a relationship built just on physical chemistry. To me he came on way to fast and hasn't gave her much space to slow down and ask the serious questions until now. And the fact she had to ask them speaks volumes about where his head is at.

Ultimately it's her decision to make about what's more important to her and her needs. Because even though we don't know the final placement of these guys I'm sure these two will be top three easily. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out on the remaining episodes.

Edited June 29, 2017 by yorklee2

[MakeMeLaugh]

15 hours ago, Venee said:

I just don't think there will be a Black Bachelor anytime soon. The masses will have to be content with " Flavor of Love" and that other Football "Ultimate Catch" show with Chad Occocinco".... (digs hole and jumps in from shame that I remember those shows) lol

...

I can't see a black Bachelor after watching this episode, where this show and its star  makes it seem that even a black Bachelorette wants a white guy, so why bother. I'm sure she'll get superclose in the next episode to Adam and Matt, whoever he is. Being sarcastic, but she kept Lee well past his expiration date when she had less than zero interest in him. We who read this forum might think it was producer driven, but people like Mr MML now think she is an absolute dolt. Maybe he is right.

I do think she needs a lot of attention, and fgs stop with all the crying.

Edited June 29, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[twoods]

I don't get why people are up in arms because Rachel isn't attracted to all the black guys she sent home. Maybe I'm naive, but she's following her heart and not looking at the race of the guy, but how she feels about them. Maybe she got a vibe that they weren't that into her, and she connected better with the guys she picked. I'm glad she's following her heart and not feeling as if she's forced to pick only black men to appease people. I'm guessing that Adam and Matt have had poor editing and she connected with them. I'm glad that she's not only picking pretty people- she seemed genuinely happy when Adam was twirling her around during the Viking date. 

 

That being said, I did like all the guys that were sent home (except for Lee), so if they are on BIP I may be forced to watch it. They seem like fun guys, and I think I enjoy scenes with them hanging out without Rachel more than the one on one convos with her. They seem to like eachother. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by twoods

[Wandering Snark]

First of all a hello to the cameraman that desperately tried to limbo out of the shot during the RC... nice work there. I think he was caught in a mirror as they switched angles?

Secondly, I'm pretty over two things at this point: "reach another level" (which has hit 'blood on my hands' prevalance) and Rachel's evergrowing need to be kissed above all else. Damn she does a LOT of kissing, with everyone. I wouldn't be surprised to find that Adam Jr has a lipstick stain on his face now.

I really hope Eric can become a real boy some day but he's a terrible match with what Rachel says she is looking for. Dude needs some life/love experiences first.

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, twoods said:

I don't get why people are up in arms because Rachel isn't attracted to all the black guys she sent home. Maybe I'm naive, but she's following her heart and not looking at the race of the guy, but how she feels about them. Maybe she got a vibe that they weren't that into her, and she connected better with the guys she picked

I think that's absolutely it.  With the possible exception of Peter, Rachel has very good radar about when a man is really into her and when not.  As much as we on this board liked Will and Anthony, I couldn't detect a spark of interest in them toward Rachel.  Women usually have no problem figuring out who's attracted to them.  Men aren't that subtle.  If she noticed during the group dates that they were looking more at each other, or the blonds walking by, than they were at her, then of course she's going to cut them. She gave Anthony one of the first dates and yet he seemed slightly bored through the whole thing.  She really wanted to like Will and spent the whole day with him not even putting his arm around her -- only to hear him say later that when he's in a relationship he's very passionate and physical.  I really hope she doesn't get criticism for her choices when she gets home.  We heard her say that Nick was the first white guy she really dated so it's definitely not her preference that has caused her to get to this point with only one black man, it's the men's preferences that's the problem.  What do Eric and Bryan have in common?  They both act thrilled to pieces to be with her.

[saber5055]

WanderingSnark, every time I hear "reach another level" I think about what catch phrase I would use if I were on this show. Because "level" and "amazing" and "journey" are blacklisted in my book. And I'll toss in "His and I's relationship" too. And Judy, thinking about Rachel and Sean together (up against an alley wall, ala Arie) makes me want to turn the channel in my brain. I still wish there would be a black bachelor, even though I know it's hopeless. All my favs this season are the black dude. And Dean. Oh, and the French-speaking AJ.

[jade.black]

So in the Most Shocking Twist Ever, the episode actually ends with a rose ceremony. Didn’t see that one coming.

I am baffled by Rachel’s choices in men. And do the editors want this season to be totally predictable? Why didn’t they give Adam and Matt more airtime knowing they make the final 6? Nobody watching thinks they’re serious contenders. I was surprised when they survived the last rose ceremony let alone beat out Alex, Will, and Kenny.

Ok, I’m pretty much a terrible person and do not have children (and don’t particularly want them), but I thought Kenny’s immediate emotions every time he saw his daughter on skype were waaay over the top. The girl is ten and seemed pretty upbeat when they talked, but the second she said “daddy” he would dissolve in a puddle of tears. Every time he talked about Rachel it was in regards to what a godsend she would be for his family. I think he’s looking for a mother to his child more than a wife. Actually, Kenny's emotions were over the top in general. I thought by the last couple episodes, he was provoking Lee more than Lee was provoking him. Or just drastically overreacting.

I went to Denmark last January and loved it! I’ve been to so many of those places. I was very jealous of Eric’s date since Tivoli Gardens was closed for the winter when I visited. I second that question a poster asked above about whether the men can leave the hotel. They were right across from Kronborg Castle- it would be a ridiculous waste if they couldn’t head over there during the day for a tour. And the unbelievable Frederiksborg Castle is only a short train ride away as well.

Will was my favorite. Sad to see him go. I’d love him as the next Bachelor. He was so well-spoken and struck me as very educated and intelligent. He definitely wasn't into Rachel though. Them standing in silence on the bridge was awkward.

I’m extremely back and forth on Peter. I liked him two weeks ago, then I was over him last week, and now this week I’m interested again. He asks her the best questions in regards to everyday life together and seems very observant and insightful.

Dean gives me butterflies just through the TV screen. I’d probably melt in real life.

Rachel really needs to stop saying "him and I" at the end of the sentences when she should be using "me". Not a huge deal, just distracting.

My personal final 4 would have been Dean, Will, Diggy, and Peter. But the other two for the F6 wouldn’t have been random filler either like this weird lineup.

[Venee]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I think that's absolutely it.  With the possible exception of Peter, Rachel has very good radar about when a man is really into her and when not.  As much as we on this board liked Will and Anthony, I couldn't detect a spark of interest in them toward Rachel.  Women usually have no problem figuring out who's attracted to them.  Men aren't that subtle.  If she noticed during the group dates that they were looking more at each other, or the blonds walking by, than they were at her, then of course she's going to cut them. She gave Anthony one of the first dates and yet he seemed slightly bored through the whole thing.  She really wanted to like Will and spent the whole day with him not even putting his arm around her -- only to hear him say later that when he's in a relationship he's very passionate and physical.  I really hope she doesn't get criticism for her choices when she gets home.  We heard her say that Nick was the first white guy she really dated so it's definitely not her preference that has caused her to get to this point with only one black man, it's the men's preferences that's the problem.  What do Eric and Bryan have in common?  They both act thrilled to pieces to be with her.

Meh I'm definitely not bothered by the color of who she is keeping or sending home. You like who you like.  In general we're the 4th wall, and  a producer edited 4th wall at that. Were getting cutting room edits. I often wonder if she is privy to see what we see before she makes her decisions. I've probably watched 3 Bachelor seasons and only the original Bachelorette season, so to those who know more, does the Lead get to see footage of what we see at some point?  I'll make another observation about Will. He was far more comfortable with Rachel on the group dates than the one on one. He was physical, playful and they did some lip locking. I was actually surprised how reserved he was on their date, because I didn't expect that based on their previous interactions.

[dleighg]

2 minutes ago, jade.black said:

Ok, I’m pretty much a terrible person and do not have children (and don’t particularly want them), but I thought Kenny’s immediate emotions every time he saw his daughter on skype were waaay over the top. The girl is ten and seemed pretty upbeat when they talked, but the second she said “daddy” he would dissolve in a puddle of tears. Every time he talked about Rachel it was in regards to what a godsend she would be for his family. I think he’s looking for a mother to his child more than a wife. Actually, Kenny's emotions were over the top in general. I thought by the last couple episodes, he was provoking Lee more than Lee was provoking him. Or just drastically overreacting.

I do have kids, and while I'm a pretty low-key person, I completely agree about his puddle-ness, and about him looking for a mommy figure for his daughter.

[dirtypop90]

7 minutes ago, Venee said:

Meh I'm definitely not bothered by the color of who she is keeping or sending home. You like who you like.  In general we're the 4th wall, and  a producer edited 4th wall at that. Were getting cutting room edits. I often wonder if she is privy to see what we see before she makes her decisions. I've probably watched 3 Bachelor seasons and only the original Bachelorette season, so to those who know more, does the Lead get to see footage of what we see at some point?  I'll make another observation about Will. He was far more comfortable with Rachel on the group dates than the one on one. He was physical, playful and they did some lip locking. I was actually surprised how reserved he was on their date, because I didn't expect that based on their previous interactions.

Rachel mentioned right before their date started that he would clam up around her. We didn't get to see that though. Clearly tptb edited out his awkwardness around her so this one-on-one would be a shocker.  But Rachel had already felt something was off before the date. Based on Eric's statement that will also confided in him that he was intimidated by Rachel, which eric said was because she was strong, dominant, and a black woman and he had never dated anyone like her; unclear if that's Eric's guess as to why Will was initimidated or will gave him that explanation. Either way it would explain why he did better on group dates where other people are around and he has more alcohol in his system than the one-on-one. 

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Venee said:

Meh I'm definitely not bothered by the color of who she is keeping or sending home. You like who you like.  In general we're the 4th wall, and  a producer edited 4th wall at that. Were getting cutting room edits. I often wonder if she is privy to see what we see before she makes her decisions. I've probably watched 3 Bachelor seasons and only the original Bachelorette season, so to those who know more, does the Lead get to see footage of what we see at some point?  I'll make another observation about Will. He was far more comfortable with Rachel on the group dates than the one on one. He was physical, playful and they did some lip locking. I was actually surprised how reserved he was on their date, because I didn't expect that based on their previous interactions.

The entire cast, including the lead watches the show as we do, when it airs. 

[Venee]

2 hours ago, dleighg said:

I do have kids, and while I'm a pretty low-key person, I completely agree about his puddle-ness, and about him looking for a mommy figure for his daughter.

I suspect a great deal of those tears were from embarrassment, frustration and defeat.... I'm curious about his daughters Mom and her thoughts on all of this....

[Chick2Chic]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

With the possible exception of Peter, Rachel has very good radar about when a man is really into her and when not.

I don't think one instance of Peter not wanting kiss what looked to be a drunk Rachel means he isn't in to her. All the other interactions I've seen have shown him to be really in to her, especially the 3 hour hot tub date. Obviously mileage varies on Peter and Pachel. 

I personally thought Alex was the hottest guy in this cast. I would've been all over that in real life. In Rachel's case, I think she's most naturally connected the most with Peter and Dean. I think she thinks she's connected with Bryan but I view it as a total fling type situation that would burn out after a few sessions in the sack (plus I can't stand his loud kissing). She's got a good vibe with Eric but it's more platonic than romantic to me. I couldn't say about Matt or Adam as I can't really recall her interactions with him. I remember AJ's moments more than I do Adam's. 

Kenny was alright but he struck me as clingy + his waterworks over his daughter seemed a bit much at times. Kenny going to say something to racist Lee after Rachel dismissed racist Lee  wasn't a good look either. I have zero issues with her sending Will home. As a Black woman, I know exactly what the moment was like for Rachel for him to talk about his dating history as so. I know some like Josiah but I wasn't a fan of him. From the "wifing" comments to his interviews making it seem like he was morning about beating the other guys than winning Rachel's heart, I was turned off. I also thought his parting interview was odd. I saw someone tweet that Josiah was the type of guy who would flatter you hard to get your number and if you weren't interested he would call you a bitch. It wasn't a stretch for me to see that with him. 

Also, Jack Stone's smile sometimes creeped me out. Not that he is Norman Bates in personality at all but he certainly smiled like him. *shudders* 

[yorklee2]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I think that's absolutely it.  With the possible exception of Peter, Rachel has very good radar about when a man is really into her and when not.  As much as we on this board liked Will and Anthony, I couldn't detect a spark of interest in them toward Rachel.  Women usually have no problem figuring out who's attracted to them.  Men aren't that subtle.  If she noticed during the group dates that they were looking more at each other, or the blonds walking by, than they were at her, then of course she's going to cut them. She gave Anthony one of the first dates and yet he seemed slightly bored through the whole thing.  She really wanted to like Will and spent the whole day with him not even putting his arm around her -- only to hear him say later that when he's in a relationship he's very passionate and physical.  I really hope she doesn't get criticism for her choices when she gets home.  We heard her say that Nick was the first white guy she really dated so it's definitely not her preference that has caused her to get to this point with only one black man, it's the men's preferences that's the problem.  What do Eric and Bryan have in common?  They both act thrilled to pieces to be with her.

Good post. I agree Rachel has a good radar for who's into her and who's not. Except for Peter. Which doesn't make sense. She seems to logically and intuitively pick the right guys in my opinion so why the rose colored glasses with Peter? I have no doubt he'll be in the top 3 so what is she seeing and feeling that we're maybe not privy too? I keep thinking somethings going to be revealed or we'll see more chemistry between them to explain why she's keeping him around. I can only assume the show has been doing some heavy editing and we're not seeing the deeper connection they may have and maybe the shows trying to throw off the audience? I've already stated that I think Peter has a harder time making out for the cameras so maybe he's more inviting and comfortable when the cameras aren't around? She did mention (in an interview that other poster commented on) that on their one on one (when the cameras were not filming) that she was drawn to him for sharing or giving his lunch to a homeless man. Otherwise if nothing changes with Peter and she ends up picking him in the end, then theirs would be a long road of engagement to get to where they need to be or it would founder pretty quickly ATFR. 

On Nick's season I thought her comment was she had dated white guys before but he was the first one she would bring home to meet the parents. And I don't think she would get criticism from her family for her choices being that her sister is married to a white man. I still believe that even if, for arguments sake, she might have a slight preference for white men ultimately she's going to go with who shows her they want to be with her and she feels a connection with. The majority of the black men were not giving her that.

Edited June 29, 2017 by yorklee2

[truthaboutluv]

7 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

I've already stated that I think Peter has a harder time making out for the cameras so maybe he's more inviting and comfortable when the cameras aren't around?

Until they get to the fantasy suites, the cameras are always around. Unless Rachel pulled a Kaitlyn and was sneaking into the hotel room to spend time with Peter away from the cameras and I don't buy that. The thing about the homeless guy, she mentioned it in her People Magazine blog and stated that Peter told her about it. He apparently did it when Rachel and the camera men weren't around because these dates require set ups and staging, etc. So it sounded like it happened during a break in the filming. 

It is quite possible that with Rachel and Peter, like so many others here and online, she just thinks Peter is very hot and is blinded by that. So it's not that she's not seeing his wariness but she's very attracted to him and blinded by his pretty, so she's going for it no matter how reticent he may seem. I think between the hot tub and her asking him to kiss her in the last episode, she's proven that she has no problems being the aggressor if need be.

Like I said, it's one of the reasons her and Bryan's makeouts are so intense and aggressive because on the passion front, I think they're very similar. The difference with Peter and Bryan is that with the latter, Rachel doesn't have to be the aggressor or chase him and like I said, that may be what her decision comes down to. Pick a guy where she has to work to draw him out or the one who is practically worshipping her. 

[yorklee2]

27 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Until they get to the fantasy suites, the cameras are always around. Unless Rachel pulled a Kaitlyn and was sneaking into the hotel room to spend time with Peter away from the cameras and I don't buy that. The thing about the homeless guy, she mentioned it in her People Magazine blog and stated that Peter told her about it. He apparently did it when Rachel and the camera men weren't around because these dates require set ups and staging, etc. So it sounded like it happened during a break in the filming. 

It is quite possible that with Rachel and Peter, like so many others here and online, she just thinks Peter is very hot and is blinded by that. So it's not that she's not seeing his wariness but she's very attracted to him and blinded by his pretty, so she's going for it no matter how reticent he may seem. I think between the hot tub and her asking him to kiss her in the last episode, she's proven that she has no problems being the aggressor if need be.

Like I said, it's one of the reasons her and Bryan's makeouts are so intense and aggressive because on the passion front, I think they're very similar. The difference with Peter and Bryan is that with the latter, Rachel doesn't have to be the aggressor or chase him and like I said, that may be what her decision comes down to. Pick a guy where she has to work to draw him out or the one who is practically worshipping her. 

Good points. I did think of the possibility that the cameras are always rolling but I wasn't sure. And I thought of the fact that maybe Peter is her Achilles heel when it comes to her normal logical reasoning mind. I would say it's fair to speculate that all women may have had that one guy in their life who just pushed the right buttons for no logical reasons and made a mockery of their normal logical reasoning? Still it's hard to shake that a intelligent reasoning woman would make such nonsensical choices.

ETA: Another thing I remembered that doesn't make sense is that we saw Peter being upset he didn't get the group date rose on one occasion so he couldn't be totally in the not interested camp unless he's acting. Which I know on this show is entirely possible. But their whole dynamic is puzzling to me.

Edited June 29, 2017 by yorklee2

[yorklee2]

51 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

I personally thought Alex was the hottest guy in this cast. I would've been all over that in real life.

He's in my top two. Dean being the other one. They both have a playful fun side that is so inviting. And the fact that they're hot is just icing on the cake.

[truthaboutluv]

27 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

ETA: Another thing I remembered that doesn't make sense is that we saw Peter being upset he didn't get the group date rose on one occasion so he couldn't be totally in the not interested camp unless he's acting.

Or his ego was bruised.

[yorklee2]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Or his ego was bruised.

Could be but then again it could be genuine rejection and hurt also. 50/50 there.  I don't know why I keep trying to make sense out of a show that's not meant to be totally real. But on the other hand I don't think it can be totally fake either. Not all of it is scripted. I think in some ways that's the fun of watching. Trying to figure out what's real and what's not. 

For the sake of argument if we imagined he is into her than what would make him behave the way he does? In real life I have known men like him (if he's into her) that are as one poster put it, low energy. They are sincere but they will not be hurried and take longer to totally commit. It either leads to the woman getting frustrated and giving up or a long stable rewarding relationship.

Like I said the whole dynamic is puzzling and intriguing to me. As for what we've been shown it looks as though, if he's sincere, that he's not physical into her but admires, respects, doesn't want to hurt her but is caught in a situation that makes it hard to express that. Or he's acting and doesn't really care as long as he gets what he wants out of it. I'm beginning to believe it's the former. He doesn't strike me as the type who would go to these kind of extremes to get what he wants.

ETA: I guess I've always been the type who gives one the benefit of the doubt until all the cards are in. But he's running out of time to make his plays.

Edited June 29, 2017 by yorklee2

[Fable]

I wonder about the idea of someone drinking a Coke.  I highly doubt it.  It was probably a dark beer like an ale or a stout, and probably Alex, of Russian culture and who I am in love with.   

Speaking of Alex, it was disappointing that he didn't get a home-town date.  He lives just one city away from me, and it would have been fun to see my neck of the woods on TV, and if I were younger Alex would be on my radar!    

Edited June 29, 2017 by Fable

[Kira53]

Very interesting discussion.  In retrospect there have been problems with almost every black bachelor this season.  DeMario was recruited and came on to the show to become a reality star.   Production busted him in a very early episode to make him available for bachelor in paradise this season. Josiah was here to win not to win Rachel but just to win. He wanted to show how smart he was.  He boasted a lot but it was all about himself and I don't see him showing much interest in Rachel on a personal level. Kenny was looking for a mother for his daughter. He was probably also unsuitable given his profession and his hothead qualities.  I wonder how many of the Black bachelors were recruited? And not men who came because they were attracted to Rachel. Her childhood friend?  He was very attracted to Rachel but that turned her off. He was also too respectful in terms of mauling her. Will and Anthony probably were recruited and came to see what it was all about.  Anthony showed nothing on his one-to-one and Will actually almost pulled away. They may have talked a good game but they weren't attracted to her at all. Iggy was some kind of minority I think, but didn't really show sexual interest in Rachel he just wanted to tattle and in hopes that he might win. Win what, I'm not sure.  Diggy wanted  to show off his wardrobe and his shoe – sneaker collection. Fun but he wasn't there for Rachel.  Right now I can't remember anybody else that was black.

Many of the white guys tried to make Rachel feel that they came for her. And in fact more of them might have but either way they made her feel wanted truly.  Bryan  told her immediately how attractive he was to her and then showed her by his passionate kisses even if he's just a player he made her seem like the only woman he could desire. Peter shared with her  that he had discussed how desirable she was with his father during the bachelor season she participated in. That certainly made Rachel feel that he was there for her. The way Dean handled the fallout from the line the producers gave him was endearing and they laughed when I think Rachel felt that he was interested personally and her. 

I think the real problem was that most of the Black bachelors could've gotten and dated a Rachel type without going on to the bachelorette.   I've been thinking seriously about this and to be honest, I believe that if Rachel was a tall slim biracial type, video vixen type with light eyes, the black guys with all the degrees and the accomplishments would've been beating down the doors of the bachelorette and try and win her.   Sad but I think it's true. Please don't hate me.

This is anecdotal, but in my experience a lot of the Black women that I see married to white men are real cute brownskin girls. Rachel is just that type a girl plus she has everything going for her including a banging body.It seems like a lot of times when white men prefer black women they want something that's different and contrasting to their skin tone. Of course, many times people just meet people and fall in love with people despite and not because of their race or their culture.  But people do have their types. And sometimes the AfricanAmerican culture says a particular type is more valuable. Please don't hate me.

Btw, I'm Black if it matters.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Kira53
Spelling

[ridethemaverick]

16 minutes ago, Kira53 said:

Very interesting discussion.  In retrospect there have been problems with almost every black bachelor this season.  DeMario was recruited and came on to the show to become a reality star.   Production busted him in a very early episode to make him available for bachelor in paradise this season. Josiah was here to win not to win Rachel but just to win. He wanted to show how smart he was.  He boasted a lot but it was all about himself and I don't see him showing much interest in Rachel on a personal level. Kenny was looking for a mother for his daughter. He was probably also unsuitable given his profession and his hothead qualities.  I wonder how many of the Black bachelors were recruited? And not men who came because they were attracted to Rachel. Her childhood friend?  He was very attracted to Rachel but that turned her off. He was also too respectful in terms of mauling her. Will and Anthony probably were recruited and came to see what it was all about.  Anthony showed nothing on his one-to-one and Will actually almost pulled away. They may have talked a good game but they weren't attracted to her at all. Iggy was some kind of minority I think, but didn't really show sexual interest in Rachel he just wanted to tattle and in hopes that he might win. Win what, I'm not sure.  Diggy wanted  to show off his wardrobe and his shoe – sneaker collection. Fun but he wasn't there for Rachel.  Right now I can't remember anybody else that was black.

Many of the white guys tried to make Rachel feel that they came for her. And in fact more of them might have but either way they made her feel wanted truly.  Bryan  told her immediately how attractive he was to her and then showed her by his passionate kisses even if he's just a player he made her seem like the only woman he could desire. Peter shared with her  that he had discussed how desirable she was with his father during the bachelor season she participated in. That certainly made Rachel feel that he was there for her. The way Dean handled the fallout from the line the producers gave him was endearing and they laughed when I think Rachel felt that he was interested personally and her. 

I think the real problem was that most of the Black bachelors could've gotten and dated a Rachel type without going on to the bachelorette.   I've been thinking seriously about this and to be honest, I believe that if Rachel was a tall slim biracial type, video vixen type with light eyes, the black guys with all the degrees and the accomplishments would've been beating down the doors of the bachelorette and try and win her.   Sad but I think it's true. Please don't hate me.

This is anecdotal, but in my experience a lot of the Black women that I see married to white men are real cute brownskin girls. Rachel is just that type a girl plus she has everything going for her including a banging body.It seems like a lot of times when white men prefer black women they want something that's different and contrasting to their skin tone. Of course, many times people just meet people and fall in love with people despite and not because of their race or their culture.  But people do have their types. And sometimes the AfricanAmerican culture says a particular type is more valuable. Please don't hate me.

Btw, I'm Black if it matters.

I actually think you touched on the differences in courtship that I noticed but couldn't put my finger on. Dare I say it...educated, gainfully employed black men who are halfway attractive are often prized in our community, and likely don't have to do much to woo or court the black women they come into contact with. They came here, saw Rachel, and imo, expected her to swoon or at the very least, they expected to have an edge over the white guys. When that didn't happen, maybe it threw them off their game. Black women in the dating market are very race loyal, so imagine how surprising it must have been for Rachel to be just as interested in the white guys. Eric seems to be the only black contestant who stepped up and made his interest attraction known to her both verbally and physically. The rest of them, not so much. 

To your other point about Rachel being the type a lot of white guys who date IR go for, I could not agree more. 

[BuckeyeLou]

On a shallow note,  Rachel is a very pretty woman with lovely features, but I am Totally distracted by her overly large eyelashes!  I cant concentrate on what she is saying, I am so fixated on her Huge eyelashes that look like spiders!  She could compete with the Kardashian girls for crazy fake eyelashes...I dont understand the appeal.  Rachel has pretty eyes, why take away from them?  Even when she is out in the woods, dressed in casual gear, she has the giant eyelashes on...I wish women would not wear them.(I guess I am just old, and dont 'get" trendy make-up trends, like the gold eye glitter she was wearing on one date).

[backformore]

I agree about the eyelashes - UGH!  It's like she's wearing 2 or 3 sets of fake lashes.  I have never worn them, (the idea of putting glue close to my eyes bothers me)  but I would imagine that my eyes would be half-closed much of the time.  And yes, that gold glittery stuff she wore the one night was drag-queen stuff.  We haven't really seen her with a natural look.  Maybe some of the guys are responding to how high maintenance she appears to be, having her hair and makeup perfect at all times.

[Ripley68]

I really hope that whoever is her number 2 choice....she cuts him loose the night before and doesn't make him go through the whole humilating proposal process like JoJo did.

There is a deleted scene on you tube of Rachel and Adam making out in North Carolina.

I think that the guys are/were all pretty much aware that this is a 2/3 horse race between Peter, Bryan and possibly Dean. I think they are surprised by Eric.  Will not putting any moves on her probably realized before the date that it would be pointless. They all said something about Bryan being the front runner when he went on his date, and weren't too surprised by Peter and Rachel disappearing for 3 and a half hours.

[Pachengala]

2 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

On a shallow note,  Rachel is a very pretty woman with lovely features, but I am Totally distracted by her overly large eyelashes!  I cant concentrate on what she is saying, I am so fixated on her Huge eyelashes that look like spiders!  She could compete with the Kardashian girls for crazy fake eyelashes...I dont understand the appeal.  

Quick OT story: I got married in May, and my uber-talented makeup artist cousin did my makeup. We did a test run for the bachelorette party, and I was so, so thrilled with my makeup, until she put the false eyelashes on. I swear, I looked like a Disney villain. It was really remarkable, how different (and mean!) I looked. Since then I'm overly aware of them on other people, and I have so much proxy-angst for Rachel every time they shoot her in close-up. 

[DeeciePlum]

Some things I've noticed about Peter are that he seems more comfortable interacting with Rachel when alcohol is not in the mix.  For instance, when they have the sporty group dates in the gym settings he is always the first one to go over and grab her and pick her up and twirl her around.  In the light of day he seems very attracted to her, but when everyone starts hitting the cocktails he seems to get reserved. I know some men get really turned off by women who have been drinking, maybe Peter has an issue like that.

I thought the conversation with Bryan about where they would live, if his parents would accept her, etc. really showed they were on a whole other level.

I think one of the non-entity guys, Matt, might be her friend zone/confidant. I caught one scene where she was asking his advice about one of the other guys.

I too, was really sorry to see Alex go. He reminds me a little of Jon Hamm. Hope we see him in Paradise.

I can't stand wearing false eyelashes either -- they are so uncomfortable on your eyelids. I had to wear them for a job one time and they were really hard to get used to.

[truthaboutluv]

11 hours ago, DeeciePlum said:

Some things I've noticed about Peter are that he seems more comfortable interacting with Rachel when alcohol is not in the mix.  For instance, when they have the sporty group dates in the gym settings he is always the first one to go over and grab her and pick her up and twirl her around.  In the light of day he seems very attracted to her, but when everyone starts hitting the cocktails he seems to get reserved. I know some men get really turned off by women who have been drinking, maybe Peter has an issue like that.

For me, it seems like when he's around the other guys, there is some sort of competitive streak in him to be the one she's fawning over the most and so he's suddenly very handsy and Mr. Personality with her - see the spelling bee group date, handball group date and the Viking group date. It's when they're alone though that suddenly, you can put another person between them when they're on a couch, Rachel leans facing him and he is facing forward, only tilting his head sideways to look at her and of course she has to ask him to kiss her. It makes you wonder again if it's an ego thing with him. Mark his territory in front of the guys but have her chase him when they're in private. 

 

11 hours ago, DeeciePlum said:

I thought the conversation with Bryan about where they would live, if his parents would accept her, etc. really showed they were on a whole other level.

There were two things I found a little sad but very revealing in that scene. The fact that she had to ask if his parents would accept her, which we all know why she's asking. That she even has to ask that question is just a sad reality of the world we live in. I thought it was interesting how she whispered the question. It made her seem very vulnerable in that moment. The other thing that stood out to me was when she said Bryan accepts her exactly as she is and she'd never had that. I think that might have summed up how far her feelings for Bryan might really be. It did make me wonder if it was one of those ITM's done later though and they just edited it into that scene. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Lamb18]

11 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Right now I can't remember anybody else that was black

There's Eric.

[JudyObscure]

11 hours ago, Kira53 said:

 Peter shared with her  that he had discussed how desirable she was with his father during the bachelor season she participated in. That certainly made Rachel feel that he was there for her.

Insightful post, Kira. 

So that was Peter! I remembered some guy saying it but not which one.  That goes a long way to explain why she keeps believing in him.  Shawn came specifically for Kaitlyn and it worked out well.

11 hours ago, Kira53 said:

This is anecdotal, but in my experience a lot of the Black women that I see married to white men are real cute brownskin girls.

My experience, too.  All through high school I had a crush on a tall blonde who looked like Troy Donahue -- you may remember him from such movies as "Rome Adventure."  We became good friends but he told me that, romantically, I "wasn't his type."  In my Seventeen Magazine head I thought that meant I needed to be less shy or a better dancer.  Flash forward about six years and he's a lawyer, married to a lawyer who is just Rachel's physical type.  I finally got it. They stayed happily married all these years, we're still friends and she is still fabulous.

[waving feather]

52 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

For me, it seems like when he's around the other guys, there is some sort of competitive streak in him to be the one she's fawning over the most and so he's suddenly very handy and Mr. Personality with her - see the spelling bee group date, handball group date and the Viking group date. It's when they're alone though that suddenly, you can put another person between them when they're on a couch, Rachel leans facing him and he is facing forward, only tilting his head sideways to look at her and of course she has to ask him to kiss her.

I had similar observations as well. He really comes alive during group settings with Rachel. I noticed it especially during the Spelling Bee date. He was being flirty with her and I found him NOT dull for the first time. Like, he would make a fun boyfriend. But whenever he has his one-on-one time with Rachel, he always looks highly uncomfortable like he couldn't wait to finish filming their segments and get out of there.

53 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

There were two things I found a little sad but very revealing in that scene. The fact that she had to ask if his parents would accept her, which we all know why she's asking. That she even has to ask that question is just a sad reality of the world we live in. I thought it was interesting how she whispered the question. It made her seem very vulnerable in that moment.

That was the first time that I saw Rachel drop her "Bachelorette" facade this season. Rachel is like Andi; they are both good Bachelorette leads. Very poised and able to banter and carry conversations with nearly all the men there. The way she stuttered a bit and whispered that question looks to me like she wasn't keen on the cameras or mics picking it up. I saw real intimacy between them in that minute.

[roses]

On 29/06/2017 at 1:58 AM, Venee said:

What is he even saying here? It's complete gibberish! As I said earlier, it may be producer driven, but I have yet to see a meaningful coherent conversation between them.....

I agree also I have noticed quite a few times when Rachel asks a question he never really gives an answer just gives some cheesy line. When she mentioned how they live in different states, Bryan's response "I'm here, I'm ready" ok that's nice and all but not really an answer. Even the "its magical" line ok Bryan please tell us how exactly would it be magical? Would be nice to actually get a conversation with no lines. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by roses

[LydiaMoon1]

1 hour ago, waving feather said:

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

For me, it seems like when he's around the other guys, there is some sort of competitive streak in him to be the one she's fawning over the most and so he's suddenly very handy and Mr. Personality with her - see the spelling bee group date, handball group date and the Viking group date. It's when they're alone though that suddenly, you can put another person between them when they're on a couch, Rachel leans facing him and he is facing forward, only tilting his head sideways to look at her and of course she has to ask him to kiss her.

I had similar observations as well. He really comes alive during group settings with Rachel. I noticed it especially during the Spelling Bee date. He was being flirty with her and I found him NOT dull for the first time. Like, he would make a fun boyfriend. But whenever he has his one-on-one time with Rachel, he always looks highly uncomfortable like he couldn't wait to finish filming their segments and get out of there.

I must be looking at a different show. All I see in Peter is a good-looking dude who is fun and flirty with Rachel in public, but who treats exploring his relationship with Rachel seriously during their private time. Your mileage obviously varies. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV podcast on the episode!

 

Whine & Roses: The Bachelorette Is Liking Her Vikings!

Rachel and her suitors continue their Scandy adventure with Viking games, boat tours, and elderly Swedes!

[JudyObscure]

Okay.  Putting together clues from this page:

1. Peter sees Rachel on TV and thinks, "Wowza!"  Tells his father how much he's into her and goes on the show.

[Turns out he applied for the show before Rachel was named the B'ette.]

2.  They hit it right off and he gets the first impression rose.  He's thrilled.  Rachel's a, "Smittin' kitten."

[Make that first rose in the rose ceremony.]

3. He's full of interest on group dates, trying hard to entertain her and hold her interest.

4.  When they're alone he's all smiles to be with her, but pulls back and freezes a little when she goes in for the physical.

Could it be a simple matter of Peter just not liking the French kissing, but doesn't know how to tell her? 

Edited July 1, 2017 by JudyObscure
Edited to show corrections by PrevTV posters.

[Chick2Chic]

4 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

All I see in Peter is a good-looking dude who is fun and flirty with Rachel in public, but who treats exploring his relationship with Rachel seriously during their private time. Your mileage obviously varies. 

I see what you're seeing. For me, Peter hesitating once when alone with Rachel isn't him hesitating all the time when alone with Rachel. He certainly wasn't hesitant on their one-on-one date nor in that 3 1/2 hours hot tub date. I took him hesitating that instance as him being reluctant due to her obvious intoxication. But, yea, mileage is definitely varying on Peter. 

[saber5055]

Kira53, you win my award for Best Post of the Day (TM ANW). And Judy, thanks for the Troy Donahue/Troy McClure reference. You made me LOL, or at the least, snort onto my keyboard. I know, TMI. Meanwhile, I heard an entertainment show that was doing a segment on BIP and DeMario say he was "cast as a villain" on this season. Would someone remind me how/why he was sent home? I remember he came back and Rachel rejected him v.2, but I have forgotten why he was sent packing (Rachel's reason, not TPTB's reason: BIP). It was SO LONG AGO in Bachelorette time.

[JudyObscure]

DeMario was the one whose regular girlfriend showed up at the end of the men's basketball game.  She said he had been missing for a few days when she saw him on the ATFR as one of Rachel's bachelors to   He started fast talking and pretending he didn't know her so Rachel basically sent him home for being a smooth talking smoothie.

[fib]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Okay.  Putting together clues from this page:

1. Peter sees Rachel on TV and thinks, "Wowza!"  Tells his father how much he's into her and goes on the show.

2.  They hit it right off and he gets the first impression rose.  He's thrilled.  Rachel's a, "Smittin' kitten."

3. He's full of interest on group dates, trying hard to entertain her and hold her interest.

4.  When they're alone he's all smiles to be with her, but pulls back and freezes a little when she goes in for the physical.

Could it be a simple matter of Peter just not liking the French kissing, but doesn't know how to tell her? 

I think it is more discomfort with the show and with the format.  As in, he wants to kiss her, but is afraid of getting interrupted by another dude.  Or once he gets going, he wants to keep going, but doesnt want to go to far and be made to look lecherous. Or, he really does want to get to know her (and we forget) but many participants have said they really dont get a lot of time to talk.  

I think he is charming and amusing and I think he is interested in her, rather than in love with her.  

He is older, and I think being more susceptible of this "process" is a sign of wisdom and smarts.  Ymmv

[comosedice]

5 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

I see what you're seeing. For me, Peter hesitating once when alone with Rachel isn't him hesitating all the time when alone with Rachel. He certainly wasn't hesitant on their one-on-one date nor in that 3 1/2 hours hot tub date. I took him hesitating that instance as him being reluctant due to her obvious intoxication. But, yea, mileage is definitely varying on Peter. 

I also see what you are both seeing. Perception and interpretation of his actions are what are varying on Peter. Viewers' frames of reference are pushing them in one direction or another.  I know people who would react like Peter if faced with someone who seemed tipsy or drunk, and one of them is myself. Maybe he's thinking too much and is too aware of the cameras, so he doesn't want to embarrass himself or have Rachel embarrass herself on national t.v. He came on the show for her, he has always found time to be with her and get to know her, he has been passionate with her, and he observes her carefully even when they are not having one-one-time.  To me the man is more than interested. He doesn't need to be slobbering over her every time the camera is around to show me that. Rachel is the Bachelorette but she's not the only one searching for a potential partner here. 

[truthaboutluv]

35 minutes ago, comosedice said:

He came on the show for her

That's not exactly accurate though. There's a video from Entertainment Tonight who were present during the spelling bee group date, in which Peter and few of the other guys were interviewed. In the interview, Peter states clearly that he applied for the show over a year ago, which would mean way before Rachel was made the Bachelorette and before Rachel was seen on Nick's season. And regarding the comment about his father on his first one on one, my memory may be off,  but I thought Rachel asked him what his parents thought about him doing the show and in saying they were fine with it and supportive, he said his dad started watching the show because Peter was going to be on, saw Rachel and told Peter he thought she was great.

This is another thing I've noticed regarding Peter and some online reaction to him. There's been a lot of little things spun into some fantasy of him that's not really true. For weeks before the season started, many people kept going on about his turning down being on the show after someone else nominated him, until Rachel was the lead. Not true - Peter himself applied to be on the show and happened to be cast for Rachel's season.

[Ripley68]

Rewatching these episodes....Bryan blinks a lot, and looks off to the side way to often.  Isn't looking to the side a sign of dishonesty?

[Canada]

5 minutes ago, Ripley68 said:

Rewatching these episodes....Bryan blinks a lot, and looks off to the side way to often.  Isn't looking to the side a sign of dishonesty?

I think it depends which way they're looking.  One way means they're being dishonest and I think the other way just means they're thinking hard.  But I can't remember which is which.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, fib said:

2.  They hit it right off and he gets the first impression rose. 

Minor quibble. He got the first rose in the first rose ceremony.  Bryan got the first impression rose.

[Madding crowd]

I still like Peter, think he is handsome and I think he likes Rachel enough. Keep in mind, if most of us meet a date at say a bar or resturarant, we aren't going to immediately start french kissing. We would usually say "How was your day, how's it going:" or something along those lines. I get it that they have limited time and this is a TV show, but it's not natural to everyone to immediately make out with someone the second you see them. I think Peter wants to get in a few words first to get to know her, and he kisses her plenty. I think they cut off the hot tub scene after a minute because they were making out hot and heavy and they don't want to give away too much. Yes, Bryan makes out with her more but do they talk a lot? I feel like I know more of Peter's personality than Bryan's, but I don't think he is a bad guy. 

[MakeMeLaugh]

20 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

... Keep in mind, if most of us meet a date at say a bar or resturarant, we aren't going to immediately start french kissing. ... Yes, Bryan makes out with her more but do they talk a lot?...

I think in the real world most men who are not Bryan would have a lot of trouble going in for the deep French kisses Rachel seems to enjoy RIGHT AFTER another guy or two or three have been tongue-painting their saliva all her tonsils. I think there was a strategic reason Bryan made his "sloppy seconds" remark on Ellen--I could see Peter considering that every time she wants a kiss now. She does seem to be the aggressor when it comes to Peter now.

I hate to say it but I'm sort of over her. Don't care who she picks, for sure.

Edited July 1, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[yorklee2]

3 hours ago, fib said:

I think he is charming and amusing and I think he is interested in her, rather than in love with her.  

He is older, and I think being more susceptible of this "process" is a sign of wisdom and smarts.  Ymmv

You've said exactly what I've been thinking but used much better words to get it across. He's not letting himself go in the process because he's not totally comfortable with it. And yes he seems more intrigued than "in love". It's almost like he's still stuck in the early, first getting to know you stage this far in the game.