Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[screamin]

10 hours ago, Thinbalina said:

I think people keep underestimating what Sansa has..She may not have an army but she has Arya and Bran who can Warg into animals. It hasn't been touched on but if Sansa understood everything Bran could do I think the game would change..

If Bran were all that powerful, you'd think he could make himself more useful. Imagine how much better the battle would have gone if he'd warged, say, into the NK's Dragon - while he was flying it. And Bran, who showed no interest in intervening while Sansa and Arya were contemplating killing each other, isn't likely to be deeply interested in aiding power plays.

[SimoneS]

34 minutes ago, anamika said:

I think Jaime gets to kill Cersei.

Jon has not got ANY kills so far. He just keeps floating through these plots as the other characters get the important end points. If the leaks are true, maybe the only big kill Jon gets in the entire series is Dany. Ugh.

I always taught that Jaime will kill Cersei, but the leaker said that Jon kills both Cersei and Dany. 

[SimoneS]

Qyburn told Bronn, "she has other plans of the Targaryen girl." What other plans does Cersei have for Dany? It must be something specific. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by SimoneS

[GrailKing]

Freaki did say EVERYONE wants Sansa Stark.

The girl better be happy at the end of this... some how; not sure that will be the case.

[YaddaYadda]

12 minutes ago, screamin said:

If Bran were all that powerful, you'd think he could make himself more useful. Imagine how much better the battle would have gone if he'd warged, say, into the NK's Dragon - while he was flying it. And Bran, who showed no interest in intervening while Sansa and Arya were contemplating killing each other, isn't likely to be deeply interested in aiding power plays.

Bran is messed up.

What I gather is that he must have seen something about Arya killing the NK which is the reason he gave her the dagger. He already has an inkling about the way he will die, but keeps it to himself, because being helpful is overrated.

And when he is asked about dragonfire, well no one ever tried, so I don't know. Really?

Someone should wheel him straight off a cliff.

[MarySNJ]

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

So with NK dead, Dany's dream of snowy Iron Throne could only mean a Snow / bastard is going to sit on it.  I am not saying Jon since he is not technically a Snow anymore.  So, Is it going to be Gendry sitting there at the end?  Or maybe, Cersei's baby?

A couple of things in those visions - the Snow on the Iron Throne in a ruined throne room, and going beyond the wall to the cold North, where she sees Drogo and Rhaego representing the man she loves and her (possible future) child and the possibility of a happy life, make me think of Jon. Could be wishful thinking on my part because I was promised a bittersweet ending (at least in the books). Dany going mad and Jon killing her would be tragic, not bittersweet.  

Jon may be Aegon but he may choose to keep his Stark identity in public. I think that the vision of the ruined throne room and the fact that Dany gets close to the throne but does not sit on may foretell the destruction of the IC and maybe the end of the absolute monachy. That would certainly be breaking the wheel. 

[absnow54]

14 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I always taught that Jaime will kill Cersei, but the leaker said that Jon kills both Cersei and Dany. 

I thought the leaker initially stated Jon killed Cersei, but then said they meant Dany. So they took back their "Jon kills Cersie" spoiler.

[MarySNJ]

33 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

I think they have to find out next episode since the characters "should" be splitting up after this.  Dany's going south with her crew and there's no reason for every northerner to join her.  Sansa and Bran in particular don't have a reason to go unless Winterfell is uninhabitable (didn't seem that way), especially since there must always be a Stark in Winterfell and all that.  I'm not sure Jon would be OK with Arya going either but she'd likely ignore him regardless. 

1

Frankly, I think the North owes her. Whether they remain independent or part of the 7K afterward, she came to their aid and now I think it's reasonable for Dany to expect the Northerners will be her allies against Cersei. 

[MarySNJ]

17 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Qyburn told Bronn, "she has other plans of the Targaryen girl." What other plans does Cersei have for Dany? It must be something specific. 

A Faceless assassin?

[Eyes High]

7 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Freaki did say EVERYONE wants Sansa Stark.

The girl better be happy at the end of this... some how; not sure that will be the case.

I thought Friki claimed Gendry wants Sansa and scoffed at Gendry/Arya, so he knows nothing about that aspect of the story. And Friki's source also said that Joe Dempsie didn't film any 8x06 scenes for Seville, which is looking less and less likely as well.

I do think D&D will feel obligated to compensate Sansa for putting the character through the rape storyline (in their minds) by making sure that she's deliriously happy in the end. Nikolaj warned that there will be very few happy endings, but I'm sure at least one of them is reserved for Sansa. As of 8x03, as far as I can tell, she'd be happiest with Dany and Cersei out of the picture and left to run the North herself, and that seems likely to come to fruition one way or another. 

[SimoneS]

4 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

A Faceless assassin?

Great minds and all! But how would that work? Maybe the Faceless assassin sneaks into her entourage? Whatever it is, I think that Cersei must have a destructive surprise waiting for Dany at KL. 

[GrailKing]

Just now, Eyes High said:

I thought Friki claimed Gendry wants Sansa and scoffed at Gendry/Arya

When I read it he definately said Sansa was the most wanted girl in Westeros.

So IF, the north gets more autonomy maybe Sansa realizes the only way is to be the Queen or Queen consort; Tyrion is smitten in show, Robyn in book, maybe it's FDH and she marries one of them as QC and gets the north's freedom that way.

[cambridgeguy]

12 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

Frankly, I think the North owes her. Whether they remain independent or part of the 7K afterward, she came to their aid and now I think it's reasonable for Dany to expect the Northerners will be her allies against Cersei. 

I meant that there's no reason for all of them to travel south with her to fight Cersei - we just saw how useless Sansa and Bran are in a fight.  Bran "could" be useful but he doesn't seem to take advantage of his warging to scout the enemy and tell people what he sees.  In fact I'm not sure what he wants anymore now that the NK is toast.  Does he really care who sits on the Throne?  He was insistent on Sam spilling the beans to Jon so maybe he does have some grand plan about all of this.

[SimoneS]

23 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I thought the leaker initially stated Jon killed Cersei, but then said they meant Dany. So they took back their "Jon kills Cersie" spoiler.

I reread it. You are right.

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

To think all those people banging out about Dany being the mad queen will turn out to have been right. Damn, that sucks.

Maybe, but looking at her decisions went; when pushed came to shove she mostly chose the more questionable one.

[absnow54]

32 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Great minds and all! But how would that work? Maybe the Faceless assassin sneaks into her entourage? Whatever it is, I think that Cersei must have a destructive surprise waiting for Dany at KL. 

If Cersei gets Jon's face, then that could explain the "Jon kills Dany" spoiler, since she knows Jon is loyal to her from the Dragon Pit meeting... she'd need to get his face though.

Edited April 29, 2019 by absnow54

[Edith]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Yeah, Tyrion is definitely in love with Sansa. That line about whoremongering no longer being an option was about her, not Dany. If we find out that Tyrion's been celibate this whole time because of Sansa, they are endgame for sure.

Nothing was said about their scenes on the Inside the Episode segment, and the cast discussion video only had Sophie and Peter talking about Tyrion and Sansa not being able to contribute anything and the crypt wights rather than anything about their relationship, so...watch this space, I guess. (Peter Dinklage did point out in the Game Revealed video that putting a bunch of women and children in the crypts when the NK can raise the dead was incredibly stupid.)

I said many months ago that TV Tyrion/Sansa was shippy as fuck and a number of you scoffed, so allow me to take my little victory lap now. That last desperate hand kiss was perfection.

Kudos!! He definitely is. Now I wonder if this answer the discussion about who was Tyrion referring in the book when he was thinking about his sweet wife. 

If the spoiler about Jon killing Dany is true, it would give that quote from the director that it is all about Jon and Daenerys in the end a nice twist. 

[GraceK]

20 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Maybe, but looking at her decisions went; when pushed came to shove she mostly chose the more questionable one.

Questionable doesn’t mean evil. There is no perfect ruler, anyone who is a angel would be dead immediately. She listens to her advisors and trusts her instincts when she needs to, and if she makes mistakes she suffers consequences. At the end of the day she’s deeply loyal, compassionate and loves her people. She has put her life on the line countless times to defend them and I think it’s good she has a ruthless streak. She needs one to survive and rule. Shes also up against an evil queen out of fairy tales who has no problem with having a zombie monster rape and torture people, and who is willing to blow up people, poison people and kill anyone in her path, including children to get her way and stay in the throne. Anyone who doesn’t think Cersei is the real mad queen when she literally has her own villain theme song, mad scientist and zombie bodyguard who rapes and kills on command and a evil pirate King  with a fleet to back her up, but thinks the Queen who fought to defend her realm on Dragon back ,  and also saved the life of the Male hero protagonist ( who also fought side by side with her on dragon back)numerous times is watching a different show.

Edited April 29, 2019 by GraceK
Typos

[YaddaYadda]

5 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Anyone who doesn’t think Cersei is the real mad queen when she literally has her own villain theme song, mad scientist and zombie bodyguard who rapes and kills on command and a evil pirate King  with a fleet to back her up, but thinks the Queen who fought to defend her realm on Dragon back ,  and also saved the life of the Male hero protagonist ( who ask fought side by side with her on dragon back)numerous times is watching a different show.

I'll never understand the people who don't see Cersei for what she is. 

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Questionable doesn’t mean evil.

I never said evil, I always said when push came to shove she chose the more questionable one; hence still on the fence. Now it looks like she's not losing those dragons and I will have to make a final decision on where I land.

I'm leaning, not evil, but not the best for the realm.

[Hellga]

Seeing Arya off the Night King, I am starting to think they may have had a clause that the show not spoil the books that are still unpublished.  In that case, it's completely open game for anything! 

I don't think in the show there was the "valonqar" part of the prophesy, so anyone can kill Cersei.  And even if it were, it doesn't say WHOSE younger sibling it would be...  so just about anyone is fair game.  Same goes for the Iron Throne - anyone  could get it in the show as long as it is not the same person who gets it in the books (which is just about everyone!)

I expect the last episode to be the epilogue, so probably next week is the setup for the big battle for KL that will happen in the fifth episode.   As far as the most climactic event of the fourth episode, they will probably make it the conflict between Daenerys and Jon, but I would go for finally getting Brienne and Jaime to kiss.  I feel like that's the main reason I keep watching now - making bets on when they will finally confess their feelings for one another! 🙂 

[Hellga]

Seeing Arya off the Night King, I am starting to think they may have had a clause that the show not spoil the books that are still unpublished.  In that case, it's completely open game for anything! 

I don't think in the show there was the "valonqar" part of the prophesy, so anyone can kill Cersei.  And even if it were, it doesn't say WHOSE younger sibling it would be...  so just about anyone is fair game.  Same goes for the Iron Throne - anyone  could get it in the show as long as it is not the same person who gets it in the books (which is just about everyone!)

I expect the last episode to be the epilogue, so probably next week is the setup for the big battle for KL that will happen in the fifth episode.   As far as the most climactic event of the fourth episode, they will probably make it the conflict between Daenerys and Jon, but I would go for finally getting Brienne and Jaime to kiss.  I feel like that's the main reason I keep watching now - making bets on when they will finally confess their feelings for one another! 🙂 

[Oscirus]

Danny has legit war council now, not somebody who's read about it in books and had to  worry about fighting and the political aspect, I don't see her leaning as heavily on tyrion this time around. So while they might play out tension struggle scenes for emmy shots, don't really see that struggle affecting things in the long run.

Tyrions final scene with everybody standing behind him, couldn't have been an accident.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Oscirus
editing

[Oscirus]

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Edited April 29, 2019 by Oscirus
duplicate post

[SimoneS]

24 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

If Cersei gets Jon's face, then that could explain the "Jon kills Dany" spoiler, since she knows Jon is loyal to her from the Dragon Pit meeting... she'd need to get his face though.

That would mean both Jon and Dany would be dead. I am now in the "anything can happen" mode. 

[domina89]

4 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

I also think people need to stop fighting over who is the biggest badass on the show.  If your still alive at the end of 803, your a badass and you played your part in the death of the Night King.

Yes, Arya killed the NK.  But she was heading to KL until she heard that Jon and Sansa took back the North.  So she wouldn't have been there otherwise.

Jon wouldn't have taken back the North unless Sansa talked him into it.

The Wildlings would have all been fodder for the NK if Jon hadn't made peace with them and brought them south of the wall, and gained their respect and trust.  

The North wouldn't have named him KoTN, which gave him a position of power to allow him to Parley with Dany, without seeing him being a bad ass on the battlefield. 

Dany, her dragons, and armies, were alot of help; but they wouldn't have been there if Jon hadn't gone South against the wishes of his people, to gain her as an allie and get the dragon glass. She would have continued focusing on the South.  

Dany had the numbers and the Dragons

Jon brought them all together

Ayra made the final blow.

They are all equally a force of nature.

Great list. I would only add that because of Davos, we got Gendry, who was instrumental in organizing the weapons production which also helped fend off the AOTD.  And who also may have given Arya a little extra motivation to live.  😉

[DarkRaichu]

4 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

That would mean both Jon and Dany would be dead. I am now in the "anything can happen" mode. 

I still think Cersei would be the Queen at the end, but only for a few moments.  Either Arya gets another kill or Cersei's baby does something that would kill Cersei (thus fulfilling her prophecy)

[LadyChaos]

13 minutes ago, domina89 said:

Great list. I would only add that because of Davos, we got Gendry, who was instrumental in organizing the weapons production which also helped fend off the AOTD.  And who also may have given Arya a little extra motivation to live.  😉

Absolutely! However, my brain function 5 hours ago without caffeine and on 5 hours of sleep was struggling just to pull this together.

[MarySNJ]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

I meant that there's no reason for all of them to travel south with her to fight Cersei - we just saw how useless Sansa and Bran are in a fight.  Bran "could" be useful but he doesn't seem to take advantage of his warging to scout the enemy and tell people what he sees.  In fact I'm not sure what he wants anymore now that the NK is toast.  Does he really care who sits on the Throne?  He was insistent on Sam spilling the beans to Jon so maybe he does have some grand plan about all of this.

I should have said, the Northern forces. I agree that Sansa's role seems to be rebuilding the North, and I think Bran is a mystery at the moment. I guess it depends on why he thought it was so important for Jon to know the truth of his parentage. 

[Hanahope]

34 minutes ago, Hellga said:

Seeing Arya off the Night King, I am starting to think they may have had a clause that the show not spoil the books that are still unpublished.  In that case, it's completely open game for anything! 

You mean books that are still unwritten (and may never be written)

[QuinnM]

Dany -

Joran is dead.  This was her calming influence.   Her rational mind.  She is left with Missandei who hate  the north.  Varsys who changes to suit the mood.  Tyrion and Grey Worm who believe that she must take the IT.

Jon -

Onion Knight, a rational mind.  Sansa who hates Dany and believes the North should be independent.  Bran who well is Bran.  Sam who believes Jon should sit the IT and hates Dany.  Arya who could probably kill you by just looking at you.

The next 3 episodes will be very interesting.

[MarySNJ]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Great minds and all! But how would that work? Maybe the Faceless assassin sneaks into her entourage? Whatever it is, I think that Cersei must have a destructive surprise waiting for Dany at KL. 

Great question. I would assume that any Faceless assassin will have the same kind of skills that Arya has, and Arya was able to take out the Night King with stealth and skill. Someone posing as a servant, perhaps?  I think we have to wait and see what kind of chaos exists in KL during the next phase of the war. 

[Hana Chan]

2 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Dany -

Joran is dead.  This was her calming influence.   Her rational mind.  She is left with Missandei who hate  the north.  Varsys who changes to suit the mood.  Tyrion and Grey Worm who believe that she must take the IT.

Jon -

Onion Knight, a rational mind.  Sansa who hates Dany and believes the North should be independent.  Bran who well is Bran.  Sam who believes Jon should sit the IT and hates Dany.  Arya who could probably kill you by just looking at you.

The next 3 episodes will be very interesting.

I wouldn't count on Varys to stay in Dany's camp forever. He'd made it clear that his interest in supporting her claim was his belief that she would be a better ruler for the lower classes of society than what currently exists. And he was very unhappy with her actions against the Tarleys. If he learns about Jon's heritage and sees that there is another option to rule... as you said, things will be very interesting.

[galaxygirl76]

Not that the books mean anything anymore at this point and it's been a while since I read the last two but wasn't Varys in camp fAegon?

[MarySNJ]

4 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Not that the books mean anything anymore at this point and it's been a while since I read the last two but wasn't Varys in camp fAegon?

Yes. He was one of the architects of the fAegon plot. 

I think I see where you're going with this, if Jon on the show is a composite of book Jon and fAegon. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by MarySNJ

[QuinnM]

Anyone else looking forward to the opening credits next week?  Just me?

[dirtypop90]

Do you all really believe the actors filmed fake scenes? I've assumed they just say that to throw us off.

[SeanC]

8 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

Do you all really believe the actors filmed fake scenes? I've assumed they just say that to throw us off.

It has happened in entertainment (the initial reveal of the killer in Twin Peaks was filmed three different ways, for instance).

Now, all claims by people related to the show prior to this season that faked scenes were filmed were shown to be false.  That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re wrong about it this season.

[Constantinople]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Qyburn told Bronn, "she has other plans of the Targaryen girl." What other plans does Cersei have for Dany? It must be something specific. 

2 hours ago, MarySNJ said:

A Faceless assassin?

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Great minds and all! But how would that work? Maybe the Faceless assassin sneaks into her entourage? Whatever it is, I think that Cersei must have a destructive surprise waiting for Dany at KL. 

Jaqen H'ghar?

[SeanC]

I hope next episode dedicates some space to Arya getting praised by everyone as the greatest living hero.

[QuinnM]

Quote

   2 HOURS AGO,  SIMONES SAID: 

Great minds and all! But how would that work? Maybe the Faceless assassin sneaks into her entourage? Whatever it is, I think that Cersei must have a destructive surprise waiting for Dany at KL. 

Jaqen H'ghar?

She may hire him but I just think she wants to do this herself.  She wants to punish the Septa herself.  She wants to punish Ellaria Sand.  Not some quiet assassin.  She wants to proclaim the punishment and supervise the deed.  

Although both the waif and Jaqen were seen on set.  But really why would Jaqen use the waif's face when the waif face came from Arya.

[Azi]

Plot twist: Jon dies and his face will be used to kill Dany. Mayhem. 😛

[BooBear]

37 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I hope next episode dedicates some space to Arya getting praised by everyone as the greatest living hero.

I want to see Jon's reaction and Dany giving her a "you go girl". Other than the battle planning scene it is unclear if Dany has met Arya. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by BooBear

[MadameKillerB]

I would like Ghost to have more to do before the end of this series.

[SimoneS]

15 minutes ago, Azi said:

Plot twist: Jon dies and his face will be used to kill Dany. Mayhem. 😛

Anything is possible. This would send fans off the deep end. 

[LadyChaos]

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

Jaqen H'ghar?

That would be interesting, I wonder if Arya would see it coming and warn her.

[tvduser93]

Perhaps the 'Three eyed raven' (Bran) seeks magical balance and will further ensure that Jon fulfills his purpose of eradicating the 'Lord of Light' (Dany), now that the 'Night King' has been dealt with. Is this the third betrayal that's been predicted for Dany?

[GraceK]

It really amazes me how hungry people are to see Dany die or be betrayed . Cersei doesn’t even come close to this level of fandom hatred and she has literally had women raped, tortured and Lady killed . I don’t know what else Dany could do to prove that she is not a villain , cause apparently saving Jon multiple times and fighting with Jorah after falling off a dragon against Wights with no training is not enough to prove her worth to people.

anyway, on a speculative point, anyone think Euron will still surprise us? Maybe he will marry Cersei and then take over Kings Landing.

Edited April 29, 2019 by GraceK

[AnnaL]

4 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Freaki did say EVERYONE wants Sansa Stark.

The girl better be happy at the end of this... some how; not sure that will be the case.

That goes back to Sansa's deepest fear, that nobody will ever love her for who she is, they only want her for her claim. She wanted to love and be loved and it doesn't seem she will get that so I am not sure about happy endings for her. IMO Sansa wants to stay in WF and be left alone. I am not sure she will ever be ready for another marriage even though she dreamt of running a house and many children, just doesn't seem in the cards for her. 

She is probably after Dany, who probably is taken by marrying Jon, the most sought after lady, she is the LOW, she has direct connections to the Vale and Riverun, now Storm End via Arya (if she marries Gendry) to Casterly Rock (via a good relationship with Tyrion) Highgarden will probably be ruled by Sam and Gilly as Tarlys and she is also on good terms with them. Politically Sansa is at the top of the ladder. I would love for Sansa to have a happy ending but not on the basis of having to marry someone just for the sake of it. If she can't fall in love and have someone love her back I would rather her stay alone and do what she does best, run WF. 

[domina89]

3 hours ago, absnow54 said:

If Cersei gets Jon's face, then that could explain the "Jon kills Dany" spoiler, since she knows Jon is loyal to her from the Dragon Pit meeting... she'd need to get his face though.

I hate this idea, but what worries me are those early pics we got of Jon in King's Landing on that parapet with Cersei.  No one could figure out if they were real or just D & D screwing with the photographers, but both D & D (the writers) and one of the directors (David Nutter, I think, who is directing ep. 4) were there, which gives it legitimacy.