S04.E22: World's End

[paigow]

SEASON FINALE:

Ghost Rider makes a surprising return; Coulson and the team work to stop Aida from ending the world.

Those damn Avengers are never around when ya need em!!!!

[TVSpectator]

18 minutes ago, paigow said:

SEASON FINALE:

Ghost Rider makes a surprising return; Coulson and the team work to stop Aida from ending the world.

Those damn Avengers are never around when ya need em!!!!

 

May I just ask (and this was asked like last season) Whare ARE THE AVENGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????? Seriously, though they come to these end of the world/civilization type things and no one, not even the military would give Tony Stark a call and say, "hey we really need you to come over and help out with this and we totally approve of you doing it so you are CYA over the SOKOVIA Accords. I mean, it seems by now they have come to more world ending events than the actual AVENGERS has currently. 

[SnoGirl]

18 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

May I just ask (and this was asked like last season) Whare ARE THE AVENGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????? Seriously, though they come to these end of the world/civilization type things and no one, not even the military would give Tony Stark a call and say, "hey we really need you to come over and help out with this and we totally approve of you doing it so you are CYA over the SOKOVIA Accords. I mean, it seems by now they have come to more world ending events than the actual AVENGERS has currently. 

This is my problem with the whole MU. You can have this connected world but never have the pieces interact? Even mentioning calling Ironman, but he cant come would be better. Having a board in Coulson's office of him trying to track/figure out where Captain Amercia or the Winter Soldier are. Mentioning a constant ruckus in Hell's Kitchen in passing, or even more daring mentioning something with Legion. But I just dont understand why they dont talk about those connections more or have people appear on each others shows, isnt the money coming out of the same pot? Or Hell, having some more leaders in command at Shield. They blew up one base and everything went to Hell in a handbasket. Where are the agents abroad?

Back to topic, I'm really excited for this season finale, and even more that its not the series finale. There's too much angst with the dual-life story lines that need to be resolved. Im nervous Fitz is going to be sacrificing himself. Whose turn is it between him and Simmons?

[TVSpectator]

1 hour ago, SnoGirl said:

This is my problem with the whole MU. You can have this connected world but never have the pieces interact? Even mentioning calling Ironman, but he cant come would be better. Having a board in Coulson's office of him trying to track/figure out where Captain Amercia or the Winter Soldier are. Mentioning a constant ruckus in Hell's Kitchen in passing, or even more daring mentioning something with Legion. But I just dont understand why they dont talk about those connections more or have people appear on each others shows, isnt the money coming out of the same pot? Or Hell, having some more leaders in command at Shield. They blew up one base and everything went to Hell in a handbasket. Where are the agents abroad?

Back to topic, I'm really excited for this season finale, and even more that its not the series finale. There's too much angst with the dual-life story lines that need to be resolved. Im nervous Fitz is going to be sacrificing himself. Whose turn is it between him and Simmons?

8

You are right about everything and why can't they have something in the background- like trying to track Captain America and/or Hell's Kitchen and/or The Punisher in the background. But for me, what I believe is the problem is that the writers want to have really high stakes and in my opinion, it has never really worked in the past for this show to raise it to such high levels.  Remember that Inhuman outbreak that everyone was panicking over but it never made it onto shows like Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron First, etc... but instead at best it was a small comment made by Vision in CA: CW? I mean people on this show made it into a really big point but everywhere else it never really made even a whisper- at best-- and at worst, it was like it never happened. But on AoS it caused the government to create the ATCU, and to have nations to have conferences about it, for public TV to talk none stop about, formed (what appears to be) an international hate group dedicated to destroying/wiping out the Inhumans, etc.... Then you have the whole Hive thing trying to steal a nuke and then taken over a military base and they never called in the Avengers for that one either. In my opinion, it's a major sore thumb for this show and why can't they just focus on less world changing/threating events and just focus on smaller more personalized stories that would make people believe that the Avengers either won't hear about or won't bother about (remember that trailer for Spider-Man: Homecoming- Tony literally told Peter Parker that he wouldn't force him to sign the Accords because he was just fighting street crime and he barely made it onto his radar, etc... Maybe they can have a scene like that and everything would just be explained away)?

The Fits and Simmons angst has to be, in my opinion, the worst angst on this show. I wish that the writers would just stop with the angst and maybe just ignore the fact that they are a couple for the rest of the show. That being said, the fact that Fitz shot Simmons should have some kind of impact but I doubt that it will and it will instead get forgiven/forgotten about and no one will bring it up. 

[AimingforYoko]

They got me with LMD Simmons until she told Fitz it was all his fault. Actual Jemma would never say that. Phil comes up with a good idea now and then.

[MisterGlass]

Phil listened to me when I said Ghost Rider needed to take over someone else to get Aida, so I'm happy.

I'm also happy that this got renewed so that we're not ending on that particular cliffhanger.

[greekmom]

Glad Aida/Ophelia is finally gone.

Loved Robbie.

Confused. What's the deal that Phil struck and where the heck is he in the end? 

[MisterGlass]

The final terms of the deal were unclear.  I think he's on a space ship.  A lead-up to an Infinity Wars tie in maybe?

They also referenced Doctor Strange with Robbie's portal opening effect.

[Jediknight]

So, I'm guessing next season we're bringing in SWORD.  And they need to have this tied into Infinity War, they're in freaking space, it only makes sense.  Also Coulson has to get to work, so he's got to be working on a way to find an Infinity Stone.

Coulson sold his soul to allow Ghost Rider to possess him, no question about it.

Simmons getting revenge on AIDA was perfection.

[Lantern7]

So wha happens after Inhumans? Agents of S.W.O.R.D.? I mean, Phil has pissed off everybody on Earth in the past four years. Why not take his act to outer space?

Nice for everything got tied up, even with all the ramifications. Aida proved herself an able villain, but she never figured LMDs would be used against us. Also, an extradimensional demon that took Coulson's body for a ride. Whatever works.

Talbot is in a coma? I call bullshit. His skull is so thick, a bullet would just make him crankier. And wouldn't it occur to everybody that the real Daisy probably wouldn't have used a gun?

And hey! Ward didn't make the leap! Bret Dalton will probably come back. If The Flash can shuffle versions of Harrison Wells, we'll probably get stuck with Ward.

[Lady Calypso]

The twists in this finale was mostly not surprising to me...except for the Talbot part. I didn't expect him to get shot in the head (but I knew it was LMDaisy) and I definitely didn't expect him to still be alive. But I'm glad, because Adrian Pasdar seems to just have a lot of fun with Talbot, because he's such an outrageous character.

I also knew Simmons was an LMD as well, as soon as Aida showed up.

Coulson becoming Ghost Rider for all of five minutes was pretty cool. But he probably had to sell his soul, and Ghost Rider will come to collect it during the next midseason finale. 

I know that Daisy and Simmons were in the Framework for a few weeks, but I wasn't buying her speech for Fitz for the sole reason that neither of them had to feel like they lived another full life. To them, they only lost a few weeks in the Framework, but everyone else lived full lives. It should have been May or Coulson, if anyone needed to give that speech. Hell, maybe even Mack could have been the speech giver. And I genuinely like Daisy; I just think her giving that "we're a team" speech didn't resonate. 

Poor Mack. I was hoping for Hope to have a body created for her. Alas, that's the last we'll see of her (until some hallucination or dream-like scenario).

I'm not sure what was going on at the end. Since I don't read comics and Infinity War isn't coming out until next year, the reference/hints toward it is mostly lost on me. All I have is Civil War to reference at the moment.

[MrWhyt]

On 5/14/2017 at 1:30 PM, TVSpectator said:

May I just ask (and this was asked like last season) Whare ARE THE AVENGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????? 

in the movies, where they will stay. the chances of RDJ or one of the Chris' showing up are slim to none.

[Traveller519]

Endings can be tough. Even exceptional shows and especially comic books struggle with them. I don't fault this episode because it did what it needed to do and the arc was so strong, but the wrap up felt.... lacking. 

I wish we could have seen Elena tell Mack that the way to honor Hope would be to live his life, which seems to he the decision he made.

I wish the final Aida showdown had been shot better and followed some scene logic (where did Fitz and Simmons come running in from to witness the final showdown? How could Aida, with all her knowledge and power, not detect Simmons was an LMD in the locked room?  When in her 36 hours of life did she take the time to identify the smell of copper to know that's what blood smells like?)

I wish all the teamwork involved a little more teamwork.

But all in all this whole run was so good I loved the whole story. Great season, AOS!

[ohjoy]

That was fun, and very well done, just like the rest of this arc. What a stellar season this turned out to be (even if they did break my Fitz and Simmons more than they've ever been broken before)! Nice little reset on Coulson/May as well -- just backed the car right out of that driveway. (Whew!)

Looking forward to next season. Hopefully the show can pull off a minor miracle (it's 2nd, counting the renewal) and have one more season on par with this one or better.

Edited May 17, 2017 by RandomMe

[SnoGirl]

What Whhhhat? Well, I'll say, I thought Agents was setting up some storylines like Bobby and Hunter, Ward or Triplett making a reappearance (I know the actress that plays Bobby landed a pilot, but one can hope), Hope crossing the dimensions, but all those expectations were all blown apart. Space? We're in space? I thought the jail was similar to the prison Starlord and gang were in in the first Avengers.

I'm shipping Quake and Ghost Rider. Wow, that fight scene was amazing. And their shared looks, I know thew both suck CGI money, but man, I could watch them both kick ass all days of the week.

Poor Fitz, he just looked awful all epsiode. Guilt is an awful thing.

Loved the dinner scene...it reminded me of Schwarma scene from the Avengers. And Coulson's quip of "This is the first time we've been together in a long time."

I think Coulson is sick/dying. Selling his soul might be too obvious. 

Radcliffe's end was sad, but true to life. One second you're here, the next you're gone. For a moment, I thought he got out.

[thuganomics85]

Talbot, no!  Glad he isn't dead, but in a coma.  He may be a dick and a half, but he is so much fun.

Decent enough finale, but it was kind of lacking compared to the majority of this last half of the season, I think.  Part of it was that I called the big twist early on that Simmons was actually an LMD, because while Fitz was a hell of an actor, he still didn't seem as worried as I think he would have been if the real Simmons was in danger.  And while I didn't predict that Coulson would actually assume the Ghost Rider persona to take Aida out, I felt like her death was a bit disappointing.  Considering how awesome she was, I really wanted her death to be epic, but she kind of just went out like your average villain.  Still, Mallory Jansen shined as always.  Really hope she starts landing more gigs soon, because she was one of the MVPs of not just this show, but the entire season of television, IMO.

Fun seeing Robbie again, although is new powers totally had a Doctor Strange feel to it.  Hmm...

Melinda so knows that something went down between Coulson and LMD Melinda!

Glad Mack got out of the Framework, but his reaction to Hope's death was heartbreaking.  Henry Simmons knows how to bring the tears.  I'm glad he isn't holding it against Yo-Yo, for trying to save him.

Fare thee well, Radcliffe.  You did some bad things, but you earned your peaceful death.  If there is an afterlife, hopefully Agnes is there to greet you.  Can't wait to see which show John Hannah pops up in next.

So, the big cliffhanger for next season is that SHIELD is the number one enemy again, thanks to Aida making it look like Daisy tried to assassinate Talbot.  But instead of getting taken by the government like they thought they would be, they get taken by another mysterious organization?  Whose base is in space?!  Whoever was in the shadows sounded very familiar.  Also, whatever deal Coulson struck to get the Ghost Rider powers is so coming back into play.

Despite the mix feeling for the finale, this was a hell of a season and I'm glad it's coming back.  It's somehow become one of the most compelling things about the Marvel Universe.  Great job all around, but special gold stars to Elizabeth Henstridge, Iain De Caestecker, and, yep, Mallory Jansen.

[HunterHunted]

On 5/14/2017 at 2:30 PM, TVSpectator said:

May I just ask (and this was asked like last season) Whare ARE THE AVENGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????????? Seriously, though they come to these end of the world/civilization type things and no one, not even the military would give Tony Stark a call and say, "hey we really need you to come over and help out with this and we totally approve of you doing it so you are CYA over the SOKOVIA Accords. I mean, it seems by now they have come to more world ending events than the actual AVENGERS has currently. 

There are no Avengers. Cap, Hawkeye, Falcon, Ant-Man, and Scarlett Witch are hiding out in Wakanda after Civil War. Bucky is in cryogenic sleep in Wakanda. Black Widow disappeared somewhere during Civil War. Thor disappeared during Age of Ultron. Hulk disappeared at the end of Age of Ultron. Rhodey was paralyzed during Civil War. Spider-Man is in high school in Queens. Vision and Iron Man are the only members of the team.

It does seem like they are setting up Agents of S.W.O.R.D., but they've already killed Victoria Hand who was fairly important during Secret Invasion and I've always felt like she should be a part of S.W.O.R.D.

Edited May 17, 2017 by HunterHunted

[blackwing]

I don't expect the Avengers to show up, I know the actors are expensive.  But it'd be nice to at least have Coulson mention considering calling them.  If Aida was really going to end the world, as the episode description stated, you'd think the Avengers would be interested in helping.

I was surprised at how anticlimactic the final battle between Ghost Rider and Aida was.  He grabs her, they teleport several times, he burns her, end of Aida.

Where did the LMD Jemma come from?  She was never replaced so they wouldn't have had one.  How did they create one so easily?

I was sad that Mack never got a chance to say goodbye to Hope.  He knew she wasn't real but at least let him have a last moment instead of telling her it was ok and then poof she's gone.

So we found out that Fitz killed Lincoln in the Framework, he mentioned the experiments on some of the inhumans.   

No Tripp, no Ward, no Hope.  I am a little surprised, I thought at least one of them would come back.

Eager to see what happens in space next season with SWORD.  Maybe they are going to introduce the green haired Abigail Brand.

[Nalan]

26 minutes ago, blackwing said:

No Tripp, no Ward, no Hope.  I am a little surprised, I thought at least one of them would come back.

Eager to see what happens in space next season with SWORD.  Maybe they are going to introduce the green haired Abigail Brand.

A Tripp return/resurrection I absolutely wouldn't have minded.  Not surprised about Hope, though.  And as I've said for weeks now, Ward just needs to stay dead.  Love Brett Dalton, think he's an amazing actor, but the character's story is done.  I'm more than fine with him staying gone.

And just to make sure, S.W.O.R.D. are good guys, too, right?

[Raja]

29 minutes ago, Nalan said:

 

And just to make sure, S.W.O.R.D. are good guys, too, right?

Yes, as much as SHIELD was, just a different focus. "A two minute window" what used to be the standard commercial break. I bet that had two scenes ready pending the cancellation or renewal decision. Dr Radcliffe's second death looked sort of like the Angel finale 

[Jediknight]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I know that Daisy and Simmons were in the Framework for a few weeks, but I wasn't buying her speech for Fitz for the sole reason that neither of them had to feel like they lived another full life. To them, they only lost a few weeks in the Framework, but everyone else lived full lives. It should have been May or Coulson, if anyone needed to give that speech. Hell, maybe even Mack could have been the speech giver. And I genuinely like Daisy; I just think her giving that "we're a team" speech didn't resonate.

I think it fit perfect coming from her.  When she became an Inhuman, everybody was going on about how Inhumans needed to be eradicated, except for Fitz.  He hid the fact she was Inhuman from the rest of the team, and defended her in the face of the entire team.  So her giving that speech was just doing for Fitz, what he had done for her.  Also, Daisy isn't going to turn her back on the first brother she had.

[VCRTracking]

After tonight's Flash episode I was like "Noooooo! Not again!" When it looked like Jemma was killed.

Dammit, Hope made me cry even more than I thought I would in her last moment.

Thank God Mack came back.

Loved Coulson being disappointed missing Robbie and Daisy working together. Always a fanboy.

Coulson being the spirit of vengeance was a cool surprise.

I felt bad for Aida in the end. Now that she was human her being destroyed was unsettling. Mallory Jensen did a fantastic job all season.

Liked Daisy's speech in the end and how it tied to what happened last season's finale and the beginning of this season.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer reference with the Hellmouth!

I hated Radcliffe, then I liked him, then I hated him, then I liked him again. I'm going to miss John Hannah.

The dedication to Powers Boothe at the end was nice.

Edited May 17, 2017 by VCRTracking

[dwmarch]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

Buffy the Vampire Slayer reference with the Hellmouth!

Thank you, I knew there was a Buffy reference but I couldn't remember what it was!

There was also a tribute to Bill Paxton, when Gen. Talbot says he is not going to beg for buttermilk. Bill Paxton has a hilarious NSFW line about begging for buttermilk when he is describing the attractive attributes of Jamie Lee Curtis' character in that movie.

I also detected subtle tie-ins to Dr. Strange and GotG. Ghost Rider's new portal powers are straight out of Dr. Strange and his talk about planets and a big war that Earth is only a small part of definitely brought GotG Vol 2 to mind for me.

Also nice to see the Powers Boothe tribute at the end. He was a bastard but he's our bastard!

[Quark]

A good end to a brilliant season, with stellar acting, but what on earth happened to the Russian?

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Quark said:

A good end to a brilliant season, with stellar acting, but what on earth happened to the Russian?

He'll show up next season to reek havoc on Coulson and his team. Since they never found his original head, he's still out there, making LMDs of himself (how? I have no idea).

5 hours ago, Jediknight said:

I think it fit perfect coming from her.  When she became an Inhuman, everybody was going on about how Inhumans needed to be eradicated, except for Fitz.  He hid the fact she was Inhuman from the rest of the team, and defended her in the face of the entire team.  So her giving that speech was just doing for Fitz, what he had done for her.  Also, Daisy isn't going to turn her back on the first brother she had.

I guess. I think I was taken out of it a little by her first part of her speech, that's all. I think if it was worded differently, I'd like it because I totally accept Daisy standing up for Fitz.

[shrewd.buddha]

I liked all the action - but - it felt as if there was too much of it. The Mack/Framework story and the Ophelia-vs-AoS story just did not fit together very well.  All the scenes were too short and choppy. 
One minute Daisy was trying to extract Mack and Yo-Yo, then she hit the pause button to be kick-ass with Ghost Rider, and then she gets back to Mack and is crying because he is not going to make it out alive. (psych! He didn't die.) 

And when Ophelia was killed by G.Rider, it didn't even seem to have much impact. She had already 'died' about three times before that and it didn't seem to faze her. Plus, AIDA had died a couple of times and Agnes had died in the real world and the Framework.  It was ridiculous how many versions of AIDA there were and how many deaths they had.
And what is to prevent the Russian-Head guy from creating a new body for AIDA? We've seen how easily and quickly they are to produce - when Coulson created a LMD Simmons in just a couple of hours. 

Daisy's speech to Fitz was awkward, but if it cuts through months of guilt-angst then I am all for it. Let's move on. 

It looks as if we are not going to see AoS again until 2018 - so I wasn't thrilled they left SHIELD branded as a terrorist organization at the end. 
AoS/SHIELD now appears to consist of seven people - six of whom are basically paired up as couples.  

Edited May 17, 2017 by shrewd.buddha

[greekmom]

1 hour ago, shrewd.buddha said:

It looks as if we are not going to see AoS again until 2018 - so I wasn't thrilled they left SHIELD branded as a terrorist organization at the end. 
AoS/SHIELD now appears to consist of seven people - six of whom are basically paired up as couples.  

When was this announced?

[caws 727]

20 minutes ago, greekmom said:

When was this announced?

From what I understand, InHumans will premier in the fall on Fridays after Once Upon a Time.  It has 8 episodes.  Then AOS will start it's next season in that time slot.

[CaptainTightpants]

To state the obvious, the Ghost rider/Quake fight scenes were absolutely tremendous!

But one big gripe was that Robbie goes for the DaisyBot instead of Aida? What the hell dude! You have the element of suprise AND you know Aida can teleport and instead of frying her ass right there you go for a minion? Then he pitches (actually a pretty funny) rage fit because she got away? Initially I was like why, why, why? But of course in that scenario the show would have ended at the 20 minute mark, so shenanigans. 

Near the beginning of the season I thought they were setting up a Daisy/Mace relationship. Which I think they could have pulled off despite the age difference because Jason O'Mara has tremendous presence. Now at the end of the season it looks like Daisy/Robbie is a possibility and every other main cast member is also paired off. When did the show get so coupley? I hope they make a go of it but I can't think of another show that has been successful with it.

One last gripe! When Talbot was shot, the other military person (who I'm assuming was his second in command/assistant) is the only one left standing it the room with Coulson and May. Could she not have been a little more in command and rational? She comes across as emotional and also kind of verging on hysteria. Way to represent women in the military! Not to say that she didn't give the right orders, she was totally in the right to have them detained, but she comes off as rabid instead of rational. And I'm having a hard time believing that Talbot would have someone at his side who couldn't hold her shit together. She must know about LMDs if she is part of his command and she just saw the two Russian guys jog away after being shot multiple times in centre of body mass. 

On the bright side, I'm happy to hear the Talbot is still with us. He is a pretty awesome character and it is clear that Adrian Pasdar has a lot of fun being and epic cross between and killjoy and a blow hard! 

As with other people upthread, I do wish they had spent a bit more time with Aida's final scene. It was confusing as to where Fitz and Simmons came running in from. And I thought that Aida deserved a bit more oomf in her exit, because she did turn into the best villain we've seen in several seasons. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by CaptainTightpants
spelling

[shrewd.buddha]

ABC's INHUMANS Rescheduled, AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D. Pushed Back To 2018

[clack]

I'm ok with guilty Fitz, as long as it's guilt without the angst. That is, no more gnashing the teeth and beating the breast, but just a quiet awareness of what he's done.

Let's put it this way : say a child darts out in front of the car you're driving and, through no fault of your own, you kill this child. It would be only human to still carry forever guilt and a sense of responsibility. That's the situation Fitz is in -- he's not at fault, but yet, through his actions, people are dead.

[teenj12]

I think this was a great finale to a stellar season. A little lacking in small areas, but they'd already given us one hell of a ride, so I didn't mind a more toned down conclusion.

• Daisy and Ghost Rider made for one hell of a team up. Seeing them use their powers in conjuction with each other against the LMD's was so much fun to watch. I lol'd when Coulson lamented about how he missed out on it. 
• I thought the stuff with Yo-Yo and Mack in the framework was going to be uninteresting, but goddamnit did it tug at my heart strings. Hope disappearing from Mack's arms and the his emotional breakdown made me tear up. Also the fact that Yo-Yo was willing to die by his side, even with him not remembering her. Those two make quite the pair. 
• I think Radcliffe's final scene in the Framework was handled well. I can't say I feel sorry for him, since this was literally all of his fault. But, his acceptance of the end of the Framework (and his life) was a poetic, at least. 
• I'll miss Ghost Rider, but now that he can travel dimensions at will, I think we'll see him again someday. Him and Daisy certainly appeared to be getting a little closer before he left (whether in a friendship way or otherwise), and I think there's definitely more untapped potential for adventures between Quake and the Rider. 
• Finally, the ending really confused me. But if this show is going to space next season, count me in. It's amazing how many things AOS can incorporate into the fabric of it's show, and all without it seeming out of place. Shield has a certain adaptivity better than any other superhero media on television right now. I am so glad that it was given another season, and I'm very interested in seeing how they'll top the LMD/Framework arcs, and how they'll tie into Infinity War next Spring.

[Minneapple]

There were good things about this episode, but honestly I thought it was a bit of a letdown after the fantastic Framework arc.

I loved the Ghost Rider/Daisy fight scenes. And Coulson being all "You two fighting together? And I missed it?" Always the fanboy, our Coulson. Also the final scene in the diner, with Coulson being all deadpan, "Okay, you got us. Nice effect with the power outage."

I also liked Daisy showing some self-awareness about how her running away and wearing a bunch of eyeliner didn't do anyone any good, and telling Fitz that he was the one who brought her back. I love the Daisy/Simmons friendship, but Daisy/Fitz is a really underrated friendship -- like the time he faked her bloodwork to hide her inhuman status. 

I knew Jemma was a Jemma-bot the minute she said "You did this, Fitz." No way would Jemma say that.

Aw, Mack and Yo-Yo. And Hope disappearing in the Framework was so heartbreaking. We'll miss you, Hope, you kicked ass. I, like Yo-Yo, thought for sure Mack would be pissed at her when they were back in the real world. Turns out he wants a family with her! Aw, yeah.  

WTF with the ending. I'm glad this show was renewed.

[ACW]

19 hours ago, Nalan said:

A Tripp return/resurrection I absolutely wouldn't have minded.  Not surprised about Hope, though.  And as I've said for weeks now, Ward just needs to stay dead.  Love Brett Dalton, think he's an amazing actor, but the character's story is done.  I'm more than fine with him staying gone.

Mack's signal mysteriously disappeared.  We have no proof that he's the one currently animating his body.  

Plus, now that they're renewed, they could have anyone they want pop out of the underwater wreckage of the Russian's base first thing next season.

My recollection of SWORD is that, as the name implies, they're more proactive and ruthless than SHIELD (but limited to outer-space operations).

[MisterGlass]

11 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

And when Ophelia was killed by G.Rider, it didn't even seem to have much impact. She had already 'died' about three times before that and it didn't seem to faze her. Plus, AIDA had died a couple of times and Agnes had died in the real world and the Framework.  It was ridiculous how many versions of AIDA there were and how many deaths they had.

Maybe that's why I was okay with the suddenness of her death.  It felt like it was due.  But now she's really most sincerely dead.  And this was the third attempt by Ghost Rider to get her, so rather than one large fight it was three smaller ones.

[dkb]

It was a good episode, and Radcliffe's ending was pretty poignant. John Hannah is fantastic and I'll miss him.

Please no Ghost Rider/Daisy romance. I like their friendship but don't want it turning into something more. Everybody doesn't need to be paired up.

[TVSpectator]

On 5/16/2017 at 11:12 PM, Lady Calypso said:

The twists in this finale was mostly not surprising to me...except for the Talbot part. I didn't expect him to get shot in the head (but I knew it was LMDaisy) and I definitely didn't expect him to still be alive. But I'm glad, because Adrian Pasdar seems to just have a lot of fun with Talbot, because he's such an outrageous character.

I also knew Simmons was an LMD as well, as soon as Aida showed up.

2

Okay, I have to ask- where did the LMD Simmons come from and why would they make an LMD of herself? Was it to fool AIDA? Did they find Radcliffe's secret LMD factory that apparently can turn out a lot of really detailed LMDs in a very short time, or what?

Edited May 18, 2017 by TVSpectator

[xqueenfrostine]

On 5/16/2017 at 11:57 PM, blackwing said:

Where did the LMD Jemma come from?  She was never replaced so they wouldn't have had one.  How did they create one so easily?

 

Maybe from one of Radcliffe's bases and they found it while searching for Aida? I assume Aida and Radcliffe already had the actual body for Simmons made even though that hadn't had a chance to map her mind yet.  We know they did that for Daisy, so it stands to reason that they would have done it for Simmons too.  Creating the LMD "host" ahead of time instead waiting until they had completed brain makes of their memories/personality would have made it easier/faster to seamlessly replace people, so they likely had some made for anyone they were planning to replace.

 

On 5/16/2017 at 10:12 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I know that Daisy and Simmons were in the Framework for a few weeks, but I wasn't buying her speech for Fitz for the sole reason that neither of them had to feel like they lived another full life. To them, they only lost a few weeks in the Framework, but everyone else lived full lives. It should have been May or Coulson, if anyone needed to give that speech. Hell, maybe even Mack could have been the speech giver.

I agree.  That speech would have worked best for me coming from May, as out of everyone on the team, she probably has the baggage that was the closest in nature to Fitz's.  Not only was she the only other member of the team who actually worked for HYDRA in the Framework, but she also knows what it's like to carry the weight of a personal kill around her neck thanks to her Cavalry experience.  The speech wasn't bad coming from Daisy, but the scene did seem like the writers had written it after deciding that Daisy needed a big speech for the finale instead of asking themselves which character would be best suited to giving Fitz a pep talk.

[Froippi]

actually the more i think about the more i think its better the speech Came from Daisy so while i know some don't like it i agree with it coming from Daisy!

Edited May 18, 2017 by Froippi

[enness2000]

4 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

Maybe from one of Radcliffe's bases and they found it while searching for Aida? I assume Aida and Radcliffe already had the actual body for Simmons made even though that hadn't had a chance to map her mind yet.  We know they did that for Daisy, so it stands to reason that they would have done it for Simmons too.  Creating the LMD "host" ahead of time instead waiting until they had completed brain makes of their memories/personality would have made it easier/faster to seamlessly replace people, so they likely had some made for anyone they were planning to replace.

I think this is most likely - I assume, back when Coulson, Mack, Mace and Leo were snatched and replaced before "Self Control", they also had a Jemma-bot ready to go had they managed to grab her too. It would explain not only how they had a fully-functional Jemma LMD ready to go, but also why she was the only one they replaced with an LMD - if they had time/tech to make more, you'd think they'd clone more of the team and not just hope that Aida limited her murder spree to one person before going after the Darkhold. 

[Raja]

11 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Okay, I have to ask- where did the LMD Simmons come from and why would they make an LMD of herself? Was it to fool AIDA? Did they find Radcliffe's secret LMD factory that apparently can turn out a lot of really detailed LMDs in a very short time, or what?

It does seem to  be the case with Aida, The Superior detached head making LMD Designed Only to Kill and now Shield more or less on demand. My primary theory, even if Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D rarely does blood splatter is that General Talbot in a coma was actually a LMD. The secondary speculation is that it was a protected Kreel, with Madame Masque technology getting shot by a Daisy LMD 

[tennisgurl]

Next Season: Agents in Spaaaaaace!

The ending of this arc was super sad, wasn't it? I was thinking they would keep the Framework going somehow, but now everyone we met there is gone, including cute little Hope. Pretty big downer.

Anyway, a pretty good ending to the arc, but maybe not quite the ending I would have gone with. I will really miss Aida, she was masterfully portrayed, and I thought she was really an interesting character. I have to say though, there's something just awesome about a robot turned Inhuman being killed by a pissed off vengeance demon from literal Hell. This is the shit I signed up for!

Poor Fitz. This is going to be a lot more than a pep talk can fix. I'm glad no one is blaming him for what Evil Fitz did, but its still a series of awful memories to live with. I guess a vacation is the table? Or at least a mental health day?

Alright, who in the HELL keeps putting Talbot of all people in charge of sensitive diplomatic negotiations? The dude is the least diplomatic person on the planet, is there really no one else? I like Talbot, but lets keep him in his comfort zone of telling people to shoot stuff.

I love Ghost Rider, I would watch a whole show about him. Get on it Netflix.

Edited May 18, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Lugal]

Ghost Rider's back!  Awesome!  Ghostrider and Daisy fighting together was awesome and Coulson being sorry he missed it. I'm curious what sort of deal he made with Ghostrider.  I doubt he sold his soul, I think he had a little more leverage because the Rider really wanted to get Ophelia.  Also loved the Doctor Strange-style exit.  I think we may see Ghostrider again next year.  And like everyone else, I would totally watch a Ghostrider show.

As for the Jemma LMD, like other posters have said, they probably had one ready to replace her with, but never used it.  Considering that Jemma was the one Fitz rejected Ophelia for, they should have some special protection ready for her.  I have to say, Ian de Caestecker and Elizabeth Henstridge have done so much with these characters.  Remember those happy geeky scientists from season one?

Pretty good finale, but it sucks having to wait until 2018 for the next season.  Agents in space?  Count me in, especially if a certain trash panda shows up...

[mac123x]

I enjoyed this episode but it did feel a little lacking after last week's tremendously good one.  I think it was a little rushed trying to wrap up too many story lines at once so none of them got adequate screen time, particularly the final fight with Ophelia.  (Though I'm really glad they skipped the "you thought the bad guy was dead but she rises for one final attack" cliché.)

 

I need to keep an eye on IMDB for Mallory Jensen's next show / movie.  She was just fantastic.

 

I enjoyed the eye chatter between Daisy and Robbie.  I don't remember them having that much chemistry in the first part of the season, but this season has been so great that I really need to do a rewatch.

[paigow]

Agents Of The G.A.L.A.X.Y.

[RobertDeSneero]

12 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

I agree.  That speech would have worked best for me coming from May, as out of everyone on the team, she probably has the baggage that was the closest in nature to Fitz's.  Not only was she the only other member of the team who actually worked for HYDRA in the Framework, but she also knows what it's like to carry the weight of a personal kill around her neck thanks to her Cavalry experience.  The speech wasn't bad coming from Daisy, but the scene did seem like the writers had written it after deciding that Daisy needed a big speech for the finale instead of asking themselves which character would be best suited to giving Fitz a pep talk.

That speech would have been horribly out-of-character coming from May.  She's not the one to give an emotional, inspirational speech.  She's the one who you give a single sentence stuffed with profoundness.  She is going to be as talkative about her experience in the Framework as she has been about her experience in Bahrain.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

Before I read everyone else's thoughts...I just want to say...I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL NEXT FALL!!!!

OK I guess I should have read first...I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL NEXT SPRING!!!!

Edited May 19, 2017 by HawaiiTVGuy

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 5/17/2017 at 4:43 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

And what is to prevent the Russian-Head guy from creating a new body for AIDA? We've seen how easily and quickly they are to produce - when Coulson created a LMD Simmons in just a couple of hours. 

 

I think the body creating machine was destroyed when the platform was destroyed.  That was my understanding.  

Not sure if something hinky is up with Mack, but if Daisy had some control over the Framework and who was being blipped out, then the smart move would have been to blip Hope out early (I know that sounds cruel) because they all knew the only reason Mack was staying was to be there for Hope, but if Hope is gone, he has no reason to stay.

Edited May 19, 2017 by HawaiiTVGuy

[TVSpectator]

10 hours ago, Raja said:

It does seem to  be the case with Aida, The Superior detached head making LMD Designed Only to Kill and now Shield more or less on demand. My primary theory, even if Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D rarely does blood splatter is that General Talbot in a coma was actually a LMD. The secondary speculation is that it was a protected Kreel, with Madame Masque technology getting shot by a Daisy LMD 

But if AIDA did create an LMD Simmons how was she not able to notice it?

[Raja]

12 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

But if AIDA did create an LMD Simmons how was she not able to notice it?

Except for the initial Aida, before the product improvements detected by Agent Simmons, they have only been able to recognize LMDs by using technology. In a way like the new Battlestar Galactica with the skin job Cylons who didn't even know that they were a Cylon like the May LMD didn't know that she was one before the injury revealed her hardware.