S34.E11: Reinventing How This Game Is Played

[rose711]

Tai was never discussed, but I'm assuming since Sierra, Brad, and Troy were assured they weren't going home, they figured everyone would for Tai.

I was surprised he didn't play his idol.  Too bad the alliances didn't push his name more, it might have gotten him to waste one.

I think Cirie told Sierra that Tai was the target and she told her real alliance

[KimberStormer]

Oh yeah, also I don't know what would be the point of Sarah not admitting she flipped?  Would anyone be fooled?  I can't see how that could possibly be anything but a terrible decision.

[rose711]

  4 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I don't understand how it never came up to get rid of Sarah. Once someone has proved they will flip on you, they can't really be trusted. And as others have said, I think she'll flip back.

Oh Zeke, lasted three fewer days than last year. Sort of shocked at Michaela's tears -- I didn't think they were that close, game-wise (that's why returning player seasons are so weird -- all the outside pre-existing relationships that color in-game interactions).

Hey, @Ms Blue Jay -- Cirie lost another puzzle to Zeke. Does it count (honestly asking -- in a Cirie-led puzzle team vs. a Zeke-led puzzle team, does one or the other get credit for the win when we're looking at the winner of Game Changers Puzzle Survivor?)

Cirie doesn't seem very good at anything really, and she's played how many times? Did she say four? ..

I can't believe you're serious. Cirie is one of the best players ever. She's a fantastic strategist and a strong social player.

It's a shame for you that you seem unable to understand what she is doing.

[rose711]

  2 hours ago, Nalan said:

Because it's working.  That's why I'm dazzled.  If she got to the end, she could win easily.

And I strongly disagree. Sarah is playing a much better game!!

Better than who?

[rose711]

  5 hours ago, enlightenedbum said:

Courtney (Yates) making an excellent point: the minority alliance has four people and three idols.  Maybe do something?

I was just trying to think about all the idols and advantages still out there. I know Tai and Troyzan each have an idol, Sarah has an extra vote, Sierra has a secret advantage (or something?), is there anything else? That already seems like a ton of stuff that could swing the game. 

Sierra has immunity at final 6 and if voted out she can give it to someone else.

[mertensia]

Sierra's eyebrows are verging on creepy.

Adorable bat footage!

At least Zeke wasn't bitter. 

Debbie will bitter until the sun burns out.

[Kenz]

Cirie might be the most charming woman on the planet. That smile of hers is magic. She is a master of the game. I'm all for her or Andrea taking it all. 

[Fake Jan Brady]

5 hours ago, Rowan said:

Eff off, Debbie. They're  Idiots that beat your sorry ass.

I'm fairly sure Debbie will start her jury speech with "As a former winner of Survivor..."

[Nalan]

3 hours ago, rose711 said:

Better than who?

According to @F. M., Sarah is playing better than Cirie.

She's playing better than pretty much everyone in the minority, for sure, and probably better than Aubry and Michaela.  But Andrea and Cirie?  Nah.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Nalan

[cooksdelight]

I wish to hell we'd seen more of the pre-TC conversations, since Tai voted for Sierra and his comrades voted for him. It seems that Sarah may have gotten him on her side, but not enough to help.  I'm not sure taking out Zeke with this vote was a wise move, I was agreeing with Sarah and Michaela that if they got rid of Sierra first, they could take Zeke out next. Zeke was no challenge threat at all. 

Andrea's cockiness may come back to bite her in the ass sooner than later. Cirie needs to pick a side and stick with it, because she's not doing that great of a job at handling Officer Sarah.

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, F. M. said:

These two aren't the brightest bulbs in the box.

This may be true, but Troy and Tai not telling anyone they have idols at this point is very smart.

While targeting Zeke may or may not have been good strategy, I think Andrea telling her allies that he should go because he was targeting her was not a good approach.  She needs to form her arguments in a way that shows her allies why it's in their best interest to vote someone out, not why she's afraid for her own safety.  Guess what, Andrea?  Everyone will be gunning for you sooner or later.  That's the point of the game.

I'm not sure Cirie would win but she is definitely not a goat.  She's a master of the social aspect of the game and can read people like no one else.

[blackwing]

I continue to dislike Sarah and her irritating voice.  She seemingly ate the show last night, she had so much airtime.   Cirie approached her about getting Zeke out and she rejected the idea.   Then after the immunity challenge, Andrea brings it up again and Sarah says something to the effect of "just because Andrea won immunity she thinks she has the power to dictate what is going to happen".   Uh, no.  She made the same suggestion as Cirie, to me she didn't force anyone in to doing anything.

I'm a bit puzzled as to why Brad's alliance didn't try to make a stand.  Zeke flipped, he told them he was interested in working with them.  It could have been 5 vs. 5.  Would probably have led to rocks, but they would have had a 3/8 chance of ending up with the numbers.  Which is better than what had looked like a zero chance.  Or Tai could have revealed his idol to his team and tried to draw the votes onto  Zeke.  Just doesn't seem like they tried from what was aired.

Debbie is awful even when just sitting on the jury.  I hope she never comes back again.  After her possible mental instability when she screamed at Brad, they should refrain from inviting her ever again.  She's not entertaining to me... she's crazy.  Watching crazy isn't fun.

[MisterBluxom]

4 hours ago, mertensia said:

Sierra's eyebrows are verging on creepy.

Adorable bat footage!

At least Zeke wasn't bitter. 

Debbie will bitter until the sun burns out.

Near the end of TC, Jeff praised a few of the remaining players and called them some name that was essentially a compliment. Sorry I don't remember exactly what he said. But when he was finished, Debbie mouthed the word, "Idiots!". She was calling them idiots.

Of course Debbie considers them idiots because they voted her out. That is a real precise definition of her mindset. There is no other way that Debbie can explain her being voted off. She can't admit that it was her own fault somehow. The remaining players must be idiots because they voted her out. She cannot fathom any other possible explanation.

I would love to watch some kind of show featuring Debbie in her day to day life. I'm sure I would laugh and laugh for hours. It would be incredibly entertaining. I know it's not nice to laugh at someone else's misfortune. Especially when their misfortune is being themself and being saddled with their horrible personality and character. But how can one not laugh at her? She brings all this misfortune upon herself.

If I ever had any say in the education of young children, I'd really like to hold a class about life skills and how the things that people choose to do in their lives moulds who they become. By showing how Debbie has acted during her life and the actions and opinions she chooses to embrace, it would explain how she got to be the way she is. I would think it would be very valuable for young children to realize they have the choice in the actions they make and that those actions determine the quality of their lives and how happy or unhappy they will be in life.

Poor Debbie. She just can't see the forest for the trees. (or something like that). If anyone can think of a better way to phrase that, I'd sure love to hear what your opinions.

Edited May 4, 2017 by MissBluxom

[MisterBluxom]

Can anyone please explain why Michaela was so openly sad and crying when Zeke was voted out - considering that she voted for him?

There was something going on there that I just don't understand. Can anyone explain why she was crying? Or why she voted for him?

2 hours ago, cousin oliver said:

I'm fairly sure Debbie will start her jury speech with "As a former winner of Survivor..."

Heh! Heh! Heh. Too funny.

Edited May 4, 2017 by MissBluxom

[penbrat]

I think Sarah is playing a very strong game.  However, I would be much more impressed if she would talking about (in her TH) what a strong game she is playing.   It borders on obnoxious but I am not sure she means it to be but it bugs me nonetheless.   Not sorry to see Zeke go - would love to see Andrea take it to the end - and while this is an UO I must say that Brad does not bug me at all.     Debbie made me laugh at her last night and not in a nice way.  She makes Coach seem sane.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Michaela feels loyalty towards Zeke as a friend but decided it's ultimately better for her game/better for herself furthering herself in the game to band with Andrea and the women to vote Zeke out.  Michaela was on Millennials vs Gen X season with Zeke.

[kikaha]

9 hours ago, F. M. said:

I just find Andrea gave petty reasons to get rid of Zeke, hope she goes next.

Knowing someone is coming after you next -- to boot you out of the game -- is a petty reason???

[ghoulina]

Either I'm really slow or the editors did a very good job this week. I did not see Zeke going home at all. I really did not think the girls had been able to convince Sarah and Michaela to go with them. And I figured if they were really going to go for it, they'd use Sierra - since she said she was up for anything. When I saw Sierra vote Tai, I figured it was off. That they were going to go the "safe" route, keep the six strong, and get rid of Sierra. I was all kinds of confused. 

I'm still not sure about the move. While I do think Zeke is a dangerous strategic player, I did tend to agree that it was a bit too early to oust him. 5 vs 4 is a bit too close, for my comfort. Especially since Sarah and Michaela might be a bit wary of Andrea and Cirie now (and I guess Aubry? What's up with my girl this season? I loved her so much last time, but she's been so background this year.) They might be a bit amenable to working with Brad and Sierra now. 

Who knows? So much flipping around this season. On the one hand I love it, but on the other hand - it's hard to keep up! And I wonder just how anyone can trust anyone else. Or how they can count on jury votes when they're  not staying true  to anyone. Sarah, especially, needs to be careful with this. 

[ghoulina]

7 hours ago, Rowan said:

Eff off, Debbie. They're  Idiots that beat your sorry ass.

Debbie calling them idiots was real rich.....as she sits on the jury, blindsided by her own arrogance. 

[ghoulina]

32 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

 

Can anyone please explain why Michaela was so openly sad and crying when Zeke was voted out - considering that she voted for him?

 

I wasn't entirely sure myself. But my guess is that she didn't want to vote for Zeke, but felt she had to. She mentioned that she felt she could trust Zeke and wanted to work with him. We haven't seen much of them together, but maybe they were closer than we know? Both she and Sarah were not really down with voting him out, but I'm assuming they felt to make a stand about it would have been to dangerous to THEIR game. 

[Daisy]

I picked Zeke in my survivor pool this week, but I didn't think he was actually going home - but i felt better when Andrea won because I knew then that's who she'd target - and I think that was the better angle to take. (we also don't live chat Survivor anymore? sad panda). 

I still do feel sorry for Michalea, but I do think again she didn't play enough with Zeke to see "Ugly Zeke" and basically how mean he was to David, and how basically, to make "BIG MOVE" went after him when it didn't make any sense for Zeke to do that, other than for the fact to say "I Made a Big Move, oops I'm dead now." 

And I think that is hurting Survivor a lot. Because I'd rather have Zeke make tiny moves, that you can see him doing and then you have a laundry list of this is everything that I did, vs. that big watercooler move that people talk about it - but it gets you out of the game earlier than necessary. Going after Andrea/Cirie when he did for the simple fact that he wasn't controlling the game - ended his game. 

Now I dont know now that Cirie is settled and apparently locked in - Zeke would have been able to sway/maniuplate her. but he could have worked undercover to target her (or andrea) when it made a bit more sense. (a bit more difficult to do - but possible). he went after them way too early, and Andrea + Cirie were never going to trust him again. I do feel the better players (regardless of the amount of times they play) know when it's a good time to go after the bigger target (not because they don't like them) - but they can see the numbers and go "this is where I'd do it, so that's where they'd do it, let's move early." and as Zeke pointed out - he felt (especially winning some trust with Brad Culpepper) that the next 3 days were a good time to take out Andrea. 

The only person (In the game) that bothers me is Sarah because she's very much the same way "omg, big move. omg you're telling me what to do, I'm gonna get you out because I want to have power." Now the best way to combat that is basically have Cirie on her 24/7 because Cirie's amazing at making people feel it's their ideas. but I personally wouldn't want that stress in my life. I think it would seriously benefit Sierra to go to team Cute Jedi and work with them. I don't know why she's so committed to team What Would Monica Do to the extent that she is. (especially WWMD - is kick Sierra out, and go to the finals with Tai + Michalea. the Jury hates Michalea, and Tai I don't feel is articulate enough to explain the game play.). 

Go with Andrea/Cirie, form the final 3. 
Boot out Sarah, boot out Tai (blindside), Boot out Brad. 

that leaves. 
Andrea, Cirie, Michalea Aubry and Sierra
(If they were smart), boot out Cirie ( :'( ) 
Andrea, Micheala Sierra, Aubrey. 
Aubrey (I basically forgot about her) is non existant. There's your goat. If she wins, boot out M. if M. wins boot out Aubrey 
Final 3 - Andrea, Aubrey/Michalea, Sierra

You're up against Andrea, but depending on how you spin it, you still get Debbie's vote (because she won't vote Andrea), Cirie I feel will give the whole "why not me" speech again but will vote Andrea depending on performance, Brad votes Sierra unless it's an ugly boot, so would Tai. You convince. Ozzy, Hali, Aubrey, Michalea and Zeke. Boom. Sierra wins survivor. 

[Drogo]

**Following the episode and its deletion from our DVR, Khaleesi expressed concern that Brad Culpepper has a lump in his abdomen.  I didn't notice it, but she seems to think it was on his right side and wasn't a muscle.  If anyone still has the episode and can confirm/deny, might set her mind at ease.  If confirmed, I'm just going to ask her to give me a quick check-up, because WHAT.

 

The 5 o'clock Shadow Knows:  Sierra has some serious sideburn action going on. 

Reward challenge rewardisms:  They should have brought Debbie back to fly the plane.

Zeke has an idea about the puzzle:  Withering?!  Withering?!  Why... but like why?

The puzzle spells out "Reinventing this game blah blah":  Luckily they put in that puzzle because for 3 minutes we forgot it was the Gamechangers season.

Tribal Council:  Okay so I guess 200 things happened between what we saw and this.  And I guess they told Brad and Sierra to vote for Tai, because they know Tai will go nuts later and side with them?  Or side with a chicken or a flower or whatever, and not Brad and Sierra?

 

but my favorite of the night -

Andrea stews while Brad and Zeke talk college football:  Real subtle, Andrea. You look like human Tinkerbell.

                                 

[sadiegirl1999]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Rachel RSL said:

Or maybe they should use actual well-known phrases instead of just a random sentence.

IKR?!?

It was like saying..."welcome to tribal council" or something. In that, it was "game related" but it wasn't anything commonly said.

On that note, how cool would it be if they solved a puzzle that made everyone dash for an idol or an advantage?

Like the puzzle would say..."there's an idol twenty yards away" and watch them all run.

[ghoulina]

10 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Reward challenge rewardisms:  They should have brought Debbie back to fly the plane.

Hahahaha, I would have died to see that. The others would have just died. 

[Daisy]

13 minutes ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

IKR?!?

It was like saying..."welcome to tribal council" or something. In that, it was "game related" but it wasn't anything commonly said.

On that note, how cool would it be if they solved a puzzle that made everyone dash for an idol or an advantage?

Like the puzzle would say..."there's an idol twenty yards away" and watch them all run.

bwaahahaaaa. i can see that. 
"jeff jeff we got it!" 
"say it!"
There's an idol 20 yards away!

wait what?! 
Everyone Usain Bolts it. 

[Bryce Lynch]

6 hours ago, Catronia said:

Oh, I just have to say how much I dislike Tai and want to see the last of him. They got my feeble hopes up tonight and then dashed them! He is the ickiest kind of creeping snake I have seen on this show. I am so unhappy that he has two idols, and would have been thrilled to see him go tonight with both tucked away

I have never been a big Tai (or is it "Tia") fan, but I do not intensely dislike him either.  To me, he was always overrated as a "nice guy".  He schemes and backstabs as much as anybody, but because of his sort of childlike personality people tend to let it go.  Also, he is not very good at anything, except finding idols.  

I thought he should have played one last night.  I'd rather "waste" one, (especially when I have 2) than risk going home with 2 idols.  

It will be interesting to see how Tai reacts to having his 3 "allies" throw him under the bus.  

I could see him become part of a coup against Andrea.  I have always liked Andrea, but I think she is getting to be a bit too big for her britches and is turning into the new Sheriff Sierra, though Andrea has earned the title much more, with immunity wins and successful strategic moves.  I would think she would have a huge target on her back now.   How many players think they can beat her at FTC?  I expect her to be voted out next week, if she doesn't win immunity again.

I think Andrea should have waited a vote to get rid of Zeke, as she wouldn't have been such an obvious "game changer" and FTC threat if she waited. 

Sarah seemed to be playing her failed, "I'm the swing vote, dammit!" strategy from her last season, by trying too hard to save Zeke.  She would be better off going with the flow, hiding in the weeds and pouncing with her steal-a-vote when the time is right.

[mojoween]

@Drogo I saw Brad's lump too and was curious about it.

(Ew!  That is SO not a euphemism.)

Also noticed a scar on Sierra and wondered if she once had an appendectomy.

[NodakFan]

Did anyone else burst out laughing when Zeke started talking about "Waiting for the right timing to make a move" at tribal when he's notoriously unable to wait for the right time?

[MisterBluxom]

45 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I wasn't entirely sure myself. But my guess is that she didn't want to vote for Zeke, but felt she had to. She mentioned that she felt she could trust Zeke and wanted to work with him. We haven't seen much of them together, but maybe they were closer than we know? Both she and Sarah were not really down with voting him out, but I'm assuming they felt to make a stand about it would have been to dangerous to THEIR game. 

Thank you for that explanation. It sure does make sense to me.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, kikaha said:

Knowing someone is coming after you next -- to boot you out of the game -- is a petty reason???

I think Andrea was right on the line between petty and strategic.  Yes, Zeke does want to get her out, but I think Andrea would have been a bit safer in the game keeping him around and getting rid of someone from Culpepper's alliance first, just because of the numbers.

Also, I think her insistence on getting Zeke out, revealed to anyone who didn't already know, that Andrea is running things and will probably win if she gets to FTC.   I think that could lead to some of her alliance mates turning on her, possibly as soon as the next vote.  

55 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Debbie calling them idiots was real rich.....as she sits on the jury, blindsided by her own arrogance. 

She probably would have called them, "idiots" no matter who they voted off, but I'm not sure Zeke was the best strategic move for the alliance and especially for Andrea.  I think she outed herself as the Queen Bee and is now going to be a big target, from within her own alliance. 

[MisterBluxom]

6 hours ago, Catronia said:

Oh, I just have to say how much I dislike Tai and want to see the last of him. They got my feeble hopes up tonight and then dashed them! He is the ickiest kind of creeping snake I have seen on this show. I am so unhappy that he has two idols, and would have been thrilled to see him go tonight with both tucked away

He seems to have a history of being a very poor player in terms of "idol management". He seems to play idols well for other people. But he doesn't seem to play them well for himself. He either plays them for himself at the wrong time or he fails to play them at the right time.

IMHO, it will be very entertaining if he does either one of those two things again this season.

Someone (I forget who) has said that no matter what he does, he will never, ever win the million dollars and I think I can see why they would say that. I know that I would never vote to give him the million because he just seems to say good things about people but then do bad things when people need his help.

I don't especially dislike him (like I dislike Debbie). But I will not be crying any tears if and when he may be voted out. And the sooner the better AFAIC.  Someone on the show once called him a "Flipper". I think that is a very appropriate name.

I would love to see Jeff introduce a new "twist" whereby a player who is given the boot may reenter the game (so that they can be given the boot again and again). Wouldn't it be great if there was a record for most number of times someone is given the boot in a single season? I would enjoy seeing Debbie get booted multiple times. I can't think of another player ever is more deserving of that than Debbie.

Edited May 4, 2017 by MissBluxom

[IgnoranceisBLISS]

37 minutes ago, Drogo said:

The 5 o'clock Shadow Knows:  Sierra has some serious sideburn action going on. 

Reward challenge rewardisms:  They should have brought Debbie back to fly the plane.

Zeke has an idea about the puzzle:  Withering?!  Withering?!  Why... but like why?

The puzzle spells out "Reinventing this game blah blah":  Luckily they put in that puzzle because for 3 minutes we forgot it was the Gamechangers season.

Tribal Council:  Okay so I guess 200 things happened between what we saw and this.  And I guess they told Brad and Sierra to vote for Tai, because they know Tai will go nuts later and side with them?  Or side with a chicken or a flower or whatever, and not Brad and Sierra?

 

Dead. LMAO

[truthaboutluv]

Here's my thing though, regarding all the talk about it not being the right time for Andrea to have made the move against Zeke. Okay, say they did go for Sierra this week, well next tribal you have Zeke who was already creating in roads with Brad and Troyzan. Brad will no question work with someone wanting to help him since their numbers are down. Then there's Sarah who has proven she can flip at any time and is very close to Zeke, Tai is just Tai but so far he's played more on Brad and company's side.

And then there would be Michaela who is close to Cirie but also close to Zeke and not necessarily particularly loyal to Andrea. And then there's just Andrea, Cirie and Aubry. And so of course, say Andrea doesn't win immunity. How hard would it really be for Zeke to convince Brad, Troyzan, Tai and Sarah and yes maybe even Michaela that now would be the time to get rid of Andrea who is smart, strong in challenges and friendly? I disagree that Andrea made the move too fast and should have waited. Again, wait for what? For when her back was against the wall and she would have to be scrambling?

Yes, this move might have put a huge ass target on her back but considering the previous vote came down to a close call between her and Debbie, that target's already on her back and she knows it. So she worked to get rid of the guy she knew was dead set on getting rid of her and who is smart enough in his approach to convince many that it was the best thing to do. And now she's gotten that monkey off her back, who knows what can change moving forward. Who is to say that now with Zeke gone, she can't make inroads with Sierra and Brad or Troyzan or whoever and flip things? But as long as Zeke was there, that train was coming for her full force and she knew it. 

I always remember an interview Andrea did before she played the second time. She said she spoke to Boston Rob and asked his advice before she left for filming, since her first season was Redemption Island. And she said Rob told her she was a strong and smart player but that in Redemption Island, she played scared and she needed to not do that. And that's what Andrea did there. Yes, she may possibly go home next tribal but keeping Zeke around, made that possibility almost a certainty unless she won immunity or found an idol or was able to to convince everyone he was the better option. And again, the latter is what she did this week, which was better for her because she didn't have to do it while scrambling because she had Immunity.

Quote

I would love to see Jeff introduce a new "twist" whereby a player who is given the boot may reenter the game (so that they can be given the boot again and again). Wouldn't it be great if there was a record for most number of times someone is given the boot in a single season?

I'm pretty sure that was called Redemption Island and that season gave us Matt who was booted twice and essentially "eliminated" from the game three times. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Bryce Lynch]

I don't mind challenges ending in puzzles, but the reward challenge puzzle was so time consuming that it made the obstacle course and tile gathering parts of the challenge practically irrelevant.  

Michaela was amazing beating a former NFL player through the obstacles, but it ended up not really mattering.  

[Bryce Lynch]

12 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Here's my thing though, regarding all the talk about it not being the right time for Andrea to have made the move against Zeke. Okay, say they did go for Sierra this week, well next tribal you have Zeke who was already creating in roads with Brad and Troyzan. Brad will no question work with someone wanting to help him since their numbers are down. Then there's Sarah who has proven she can flip at any time and is very close to Zeke, Tai is just Tai but so far he's played more on Brad and company's side.

And then there would be Michaela who is close to Cirie but also close to Zeke and not necessarily particularly loyal to Andrea. And then there's just Andrea, Cirie and Aubry. And so of course, say Andrea doesn't win immunity. How hard would it really be for Zeke to convince Brad, Troyzan, Tai and Sarah and yes maybe even Michaela that now would be the time to get rid of Andrea who is smart, strong in challenges and friendly? I disagree that Andrea made the move too fast and should have waited. Again, wait for what? For when her back was against the wall and she would have to be scrambling?

Yes, this move might have put a huge ass target on her back but considering the previous vote came down to a close call between her and Debbie, that target's already on her back and she knows it. So she worked to get rid of the guy she knew was dead set on getting rid of her and who is smart enough in his approach to convince many that it was the best thing to do. And now she's gotten that monkey off her back, who knows what can change moving forward. Who is to say that now with Zeke gone, she can't make inroads with Sierra and Brad or Troyzan or whoever and flip things? But as long as Zeke was there, that train was coming for her full force and she knew it. 

I always remember an interview Andrea did before she played the second time. She said she spoke to Boston Rob and asked his advice before she left for filming, since her first season was Redemption Island. And she said Rob told her she was a strong and smart player but that in Redemption Island, she played scared and she needed to not do that. And that's what Andrea did there. Yes, she may possibly go home next tribal but keeping Zeke around, made that possibility almost a certainty unless she won immunity or found an idol or was able to to convince everyone he was the better option. And again, the latter is what she did this week, which was better for her because she didn't have to do it while scrambling because she had Immunity.

I'm pretty sure that was called Redemption Island and that season gave us Matt who was booted twice and essentially "eliminated" from the game three times. 

I think there were risks for Andrea in keeping Zeke or in voting him out, but I thought targeting him, in this vote, was more like "playing scared" than keeping him.

If she had been able to convince the alliance that it was best for the alliance to vote out Zeke, fine.  But, it felt like she sort of coerced them (especially Sarah and Michaela) into voting out Zeke because it was best for Andrea.  

If they had just voted out Sierra or whoever, the would have had a 6-3 edge.  Sure, Zeke would likely try to flip, but it would still be 5-4.   And, with Zeke scheming, Andrea could easily paint a target on his back and convince the alliance that Zeke was a threat to them and needed to go, and gotten him voted out without putting such a big target on her own back. 

I think those shots of Andrea, lying in the hammock, next to Cirie, smuggly smirking and bragging about her foolproof plans could be foreshadowing a big fall for her.  

I like Andrea, but I think she might have overplayed her hand.

[JustCrazy]

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

**Following the episode and its deletion from our DVR, Khaleesi expressed concern that Brad Culpepper has a lump in his abdomen.  I didn't notice it, but she seems to think it was on his right side and wasn't a muscle.  If anyone still has the episode and can confirm/deny, might set her mind at ease.  If confirmed, I'm just going to ask her to give me a quick check-up, because WHAT.

 

The 5 o'clock Shadow Knows:  Sierra has some serious sideburn action going on. 

Reward challenge rewardisms:  They should have brought Debbie back to fly the plane.

Zeke has an idea about the puzzle:  Withering?!  Withering?!  Why... but like why?

The puzzle spells out "Reinventing this game blah blah":  Luckily they put in that puzzle because for 3 minutes we forgot it was the Gamechangers season.

Tribal Council:  Okay so I guess 200 things happened between what we saw and this.  And I guess they told Brad and Sierra to vote for Tai, because they know Tai will go nuts later and side with them?  Or side with a chicken or a flower or whatever, and not Brad and Sierra?

 

but my favorite of the night -

Andrea stews while Brad and Zeke talk college football:  Real subtle, Andrea. You look like human Tinkerbell.

                                 

I didn't notice a lump on his side, but I did notice jiggly man-boobs when he ran.  Had to rewind and rewatch that.

I love Michaela more with each show.  What a wonderful young woman she is.  She is her authentic real self and I hope the world doesn't beat that out of her.

To my mind, I don't see how all the flipping would help your game.  I would target anyone who is so wishy washy.  So Sarah and Zeke would be tops on my list. 

I'm assuming the folks who aren't getting any air time are in the final 5.  And that just makes me sad.  I would love for the final 3 to be Michaela, Cirie, and Andrea, with Michaela for the win.

Debbie will be a bitter, delusional woman till the end.  I hope to never see her on my tv screen ever again.  Blech.  I hate that she is a jury member. I'm picturing Hali and Ozzy in a closet at Ponderosa, hunched down, hiding, while Debbie is knocking on the door.  If I were stuck on an f'n island with her, I'd spend all my time locked in my room.

[ShadowSixx]

Out of these survivors right now Cirie is the one who knows how to play the social game the best. When she talks to people, she's not arrogant or boasting about her plays. She knows how to play it where it doesn't paint a target on her back for being a manipulator or worry about her backstabbing you. She stinks at challenges so social game is all she has going for her.

Andrea needs to tone down the boasting she obviously hasn't seen what it's done to Sierra, she already has a target on her back because she's good at challenges and outing Zeke. If Troyzan, Tai, & Sierra can pull some people from Andrea's alliance over to vote for Andrea they will do so if they can convince them what a big threat she is. So for Andrea's sake her best bet in staying in the game is to win immunity challenges.

Sarah is almost playing the game like Kass, wanting to make big moves all the time and don't want to see other people in position of power or having swing votes. If she keeps that up she'll see herself right where she was the last time she played...voted out.

Michaela went from huge target to crawling under the radar. Since the majority don't seem to like her, she might be taken to F3 because they know she won't get any votes. Michaela really can't do much, she can't form a plan becaue that'll put her back on the radar because she's also great at physical challenges. Michaela is stuck on neutral for the most part.

Tai, Troyzan, & Aubry don't have much of a social game as they're trying to be under the radar I guess. Don't really know how they're trying to win the game. I think Tai & Troyzan are just playing on luck. With the exception of Tai, Troyzan and Aubry might be taken to the F3 because they have no shot at winning at this point because they're not making any big moves and no social game whatsoever. Tai is banking on his immunity idols to take him far and not much else, he can luck out on winning IC if it comes to something like balance or holding onto something for extended periods of time.

Sierra & Culpepper at this point are trying to keep their heads above water and just willing to go with voting anyone out as long as it isn't them. I have a feeling that if they stay in the game for too long they may be able to pull people in to their side as the numbers dwindle.

Edited May 4, 2017 by ShadowSixx

[truthaboutluv]

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think there were risks for Andrea in keeping Zeke or in voting him out, but I thought targeting him, in this vote, was more like "playing scared" than keeping him.

If she had been able to convince the alliance that it was best for the alliance to vote out Zeke, fine.  But, it felt like she sort of coerced them (especially Sarah and Michaela) into voting out Zeke because it was best for Andrea.  

If they had just voted out Sierra or whoever, the would have had a 6-3 edge.  Sure, Zeke would likely try to flip, but it would still be 5-4.   And, with Zeke scheming, Andrea could easily paint a target on his back and convince the alliance that Zeke was a threat to them and needed to go, and gotten him voted out without putting such a big target on her own back. 

I think those shots of Andrea, lying in the hammock, next to Cirie, smuggly smirking and bragging about her foolproof plans could be foreshadowing a big fall for her.  

I like Andrea, but I think she might have overplayed her hand.

Agree to disagree. First, I disagree they would have a 6-3 edge because that's just it, Zeke was not solid in the alliance. They were working together for convenience but again, had things gone as he wanted when Ozzie was voted out, they would have gotten rid of Andrea. So Zeke was not really in that alliance. And Sarah has made it clear that she's playing tribal by tribal. So there really isn't a 6-3 game, in my opinion. 

Certainly we can argue the merit of how Andrea made her case (and let's remember that editing only shows us some of what happened since we didn't even see how Brad, Troyzan and Sierra all collectively assumed the vote was for Tai) but regarding how she could convince the alliance later of Zeke scheming if he tried to paint a target on her back, again that had already happened because he'd already painted a target on her back. 

Again, go back to the episode where Ozzy was voted out. Zeke's name came up because everyone did realize he was coming for Andrea seemingly out of nowhere. Even Sierra was baffled when he came to her with that plan and the case made for going for him was that he's a schemer who can't be trusted and is a huge threat. And we saw multiple people making that statement. Debbie was just more determined to get rid of Ozzy at the time. So again, Andrea wouldn't need to wait again for when she was scrambling with Zeke coming after her again to convince these people he was a backstabbing schemer who was too smart to keep in the game. They knew that about him. So again, do it when she has Immunity and know for a fact that at least she's definitely safe for that vote or wait when she can hope she convinces them better than he does and then she possibly goes home.

Edited May 4, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[vibeology]

13 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Anyway, Zeke needs a new Survivor skill set.  He just plays too hard, too fast.  I'm sure he'll get a third chance down the road, though, so we'll see if he's learned anything.    

I think this happens with players who go back to back seasons. They don't really get the time away from the game to decompress and evaluate their choices. Zeke only got to see himself on TV the first time after he played two season. That makes things much harder for him (and any returning player.) I do think they'll invite him back at some point in the future and I do hope he tweaks his gameplay enough in response to where he went wrong in these two seasons.

13 hours ago, Haleth said:

During the reward challenge if anyone had been paying attention to Probst's blathering, he was pretty much telling them the answer to the puzzle. Obviously it was just background noise to the players. 

Can't blame Probst one bit this time. After an hour I'd just be slowing spelling out the letters, trying to get the show moving.

I think the editing this week was the bad sort of wonky. I have no problem with them cutting things to be suspenseful, but this time, I have no understanding how those votes went down. Where did Tai's name come from? Showing one conversation where his name was mentioned as some sort of decoy would have been useful. How come Tai and Zeke were voting the same way? I think they needed to give us a bit more. You'd still have Sarah and Michaela maybe flipping to keep things tense, but we clearly missed most of the pre-TC talk and that sucks.

[ghoulina]

59 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

She probably would have called them, "idiots" no matter who they voted off, but I'm not sure Zeke was the best strategic move for the alliance and especially for Andrea.  I think she outed herself as the Queen Bee and is now going to be a big target, from within her own alliance. 

I agree with you there. As I said in my first post, I could see both sides. I appreciate this game because I know it's very hard to figure out when the exact right timing for a move is. But I do think that gunning for Zeke and potentially alienating Sarah and Michaela in the process, might backfire on her. But then again, Zeke seemed to be getting chummy with Brad and who knows what he would have done next week. Things change so rapidly. We'll see. 

[SoCal Mema]

2 hours ago, Drogo said:

**Following the episode and its deletion from our DVR, Khaleesi expressed concern that Brad Culpepper has a lump in his abdomen.  I didn't notice it, but she seems to think it was on his right side and wasn't a muscle.  If anyone still has the episode and can confirm/deny, might set her mind at ease.  If confirmed, I'm just going to ask her to give me a quick check-up, because WHAT.

 

The 5 o'clock Shadow Knows:  Sierra has some serious sideburn action going on. 

Reward challenge rewardisms:  They should have brought Debbie back to fly the plane.

Zeke has an idea about the puzzle:  Withering?!  Withering?!  Why... but like why?

The puzzle spells out "Reinventing this game blah blah":  Luckily they put in that puzzle because for 3 minutes we forgot it was the Gamechangers season.

Tribal Council:  Okay so I guess 200 things happened between what we saw and this.  And I guess they told Brad and Sierra to vote for Tai, because they know Tai will go nuts later and side with them?  Or side with a chicken or a flower or whatever, and not Brad and Sierra?

 

but my favorite of the night -

Andrea stews while Brad and Zeke talk college football:  Real subtle, Andrea. You look like human Tinkerbell.

                                 

My daughter and I noticed Brad's lump right away and commented.  It did look bizarre and in a place that wouldn't seem to have a normal bone protruding.

Also, this likely sounds petty but we also wonder why you would paint your nails before going on Survivor? Looking at you Sierra!

Feel validated that we weren't the only ones wondering about Tai's votes and when those convo's happened!

Andrea could not possibly have seemed more disengaged on that reward challenge.  Child, puhleeze, with her eye rolls.

Edited May 4, 2017 by SoCal Mema

[fishcakes]

Sarah getting zero blowback about flipping just shows she was on the bottom of Brad's alliance. Also, they were probably glad to be rid of Debbie.

I think it was a good move for Andrea and Cirie to get rid of Zeke, but only accidentally. Based on what they knew, they should have waited for at least one vote to solidify their majority and hedge their bets about Zeke, who they don't trust, and Sarah, who they shouldn't trust. But because Zeke had already set the flip against Andrea in motion for the next vote and because if Zeke were to flip, Sarah would probably go with him (possibly Michaela as well), it ended up working out to their advantage.

Or maybe it does. I'm not sure who's in with whom anymore. It seems to me that Brad, Troy, Sierra are a solid three. Andrea and Cirie a solid two. Sarah and Michaela are kind of a loose two. Tai is maybe still in with Brad's group, but after this week, he may be looking for new allies. And Aubry is a big question mark. She's getting so little air time, I'm surprised every time I see her because I keep forgetting she's there. But I can easily see Sarah and Michaela bristling if they felt like they had to vote Zeke out to appease Andrea and then scooping up Tai and Aubry to form a new majority alliance. Really, I have no idea what's going to happen, and that alone makes this an interesting season.

Watching Sierra grovel was embarrassing, but also satisfying because she needed to be taken down about a thousand pegs.

The worst thing about that reward challenge was the table manners. Aubry has always been appalling in this regard so I already knew to avert my eyes, but Andrea was even worse. I always give everyone a bit of a pass because I know they're just so happy to have something decent to eat that it's going to be a little like feeding time at the zoo, but damn. It's not like food gets more enjoyable if everyone gets to see you chewing it with your mouth wide open.

12 hours ago, mertensia said:

Adorable bat footage!

I loved that bat! And also the striped lizard who sat there all relaxed, listening to the women talk strategy.

Edited May 4, 2017 by fishcakes

[NeverLate]

8 hours ago, rose711 said:

I can't believe you're serious. Cirie is one of the best players ever. She's a fantastic strategist and a strong social player.

It's a shame for you that you seem unable to understand what she is doing.

I can see what she's doing. I've seen others play better, that's all. I cant help it if her game does nothing for me. 

Quote

Andrea could not possibly have seemed more disengaged on that reward challenge.  Child, puhleeze, with her eye rolls.

One reason Id like her gone, self absorbed  

Edited May 4, 2017 by F. M.

[TaraS1]

1 hour ago, ShadowSixx said:

Sarah is almost playing the game like Kass, wanting to make big moves all the time and don't want to see other people in position of power or having swing votes. If she keeps that up she'll see herself right where she was the last time she played...voted out.

That's exactly what I'm hoping she does, because I think she's too much of a loose cannon.  She's too willing to flip and she needs to be coddled too much.  Plus now she's extra dangerous with that advantage.  I'd rather she go home next week, and Brad/Sierra/Tai/Troyzan just battle it out head to head with Michaela/Andrea/Cirie/Aubry.

[Wings]

This is the first time that telling another of your advantage made sense. to me.   Sarah wanted Cirie to have no doubt that she was with her.  Cirie has been in control.  Wise decision since Sarah flipped early on and was concerned about them trusting her since the question of trust is guiding the votes.   Cirie is playing an excellent game at this point.  Sarah is about to take over.  

1 hour ago, SoCal Mema said:

but my favorite of the night -

Andrea stews while Brad and Zeke talk college football:  Real subtle, Andrea. You look like human Tinkerbell.

                                 

I love your daughter!  And thanks for the gif because I am not sure I would have understood her comment otherwise.

----------------------  

I am sure there were some desperate moments between Jeff and the producers as the time on the puzzle solving was getting longer.  He had to give them a clue, it was just not going to happen otherwise.  This translates to the crew getting hungry and in need of a dip in the pool and rest at their fabulous accommodations!  

It appears that Brad and Troyzan are seen as goats as opposed as a threat to win.  The editing is not showing us any conversation about them but you know this has been discussed. The women are controlling this game and refreshing to see.  

Edited May 4, 2017 by wings707

[Nashville]

13 hours ago, Daisy said:

Michalea - don't cry because Zeke would have had zero problems slitting your throat. 

 

13 hours ago, vb68 said:

Oh Michaela, Zeke is not worth crying over!

Two words: Jury stroking.  Especially considering Michaela was one of the votes against Zeke.

 

13 hours ago, enlightenedbum said:

I think she was actually in a kind of bad spot here because she and Cirie had to push Sarah and Michaela so hard.  She clearly had to get Zeke because he was going to come after her soon, as he admitted.  But pushing reluctant allies creates bad feelings and could lead to sad times for the two of them.  A necessary tactical victory but strategically it puts them in a tough spot.

Andrea pushing hard was the only way a Zeke eviction was going to happen tonight, though.  Have to give Andrea props - playing the "proving loyalty to the alliance" card was quite probably the only way Andrea was going to get Sarah to vote against Zeke.  Although I sadly suspect this vote was a Pyrrhic victory for Andrea (more below).

 

13 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

IDK why when they have an opportunity to get rid of Sierra, they never pull the damn trigger on getting rid of her. Why??? They could have gotten Zeke later because he plays too hard anyway. They could have dragged him on for a few more votes. It's just annoying when players vote emotionally over strategically. 

I totally understood Andrea's rationale for targeting Zeke, to a point - that point being when Andrea won individual immunity.

Prior to her immunity win, Andrea was thinking in terms of numbers - specifically, how easily a 6-4 vote could become a 5-5 (with a Zeke flip) or even a 4-6 (if Zeke talked Sarah into flipping with him).  Everybody else in the 6 (save Zeke) was saying, "Wait one more vote before targeting Zeke" - i.e., playing it safe and waiting until the 5-of-6 alliance's ability to control the majority vote was ironclad.  One problem with that from Andrea's point of view, though; Zeke's a really smart guy.  Zeke has already fired a warning shot over the S. S. AndreaCirie's bow so he knows (a) he's in Andreas's crosshairs, and (b) Andrea will almost certainly dump Zeke at her first safe opportunity - which will be the vote after this one.  Strategically speaking, if Zeke was going to strike at Andrea before she struck at him, NOW would be the time to do it while the greatest number of malleable votes were still on the table.  If Zeke were to wait another week, then Andrea would have Zeke's eviction secured under lock and key - so why should Zeke wait?  In that context, Andrea's targeting of Zeke makes perfect sense; she was afraid playing it safe would come back around to bite her in the ass.  Before the IC, that is.

AFTER the IC, though, is a different matter entirely; Zeke can no longer directly target Andrea at this TC vote, so Andrea's concern is moot.  Only thing I can guess is Andrea was paranoid that Zeke, being unable to target Andrea directly, would attempt indirect targeting of Andrea's game by cutting the throat of her closest ally Cirie.  All of this would have made perfect Zeke-sense - so much so, in fact, I'm not sure why Zeke didn't pursue it.  Maybe Zeke did, but that footage ended up on the cutting room floor as ultimately immaterial from the edit's point of view; I dunno.  

What I do think, however, is this: by continuing her Zeke vendetta after winning II, Andrea probably withdrew more out of her goodwill bank with Sarah and Michaela than was wise - and that lack-of-credit rooster will be coming home to roost sometime within the next 3 or 4 TC votes.  Hence my earlier Pyrrhic victory comment.

 

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

The puzzle spells out "Reinventing this game blah blah":  Luckily they put in that puzzle because for 3 minutes we forgot it was the Gamechangers season.

Pure gold.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think those shots of Andrea, lying in the hammock, next to Cirie, smuggly smirking and bragging about her foolproof plans could be foreshadowing a big fall for her.  

Heh.  Here at the qt home we call that the "Hammock of Death." Not sure which season it was but my husband, who's only a casual viewer, walks into the room when Savage was lounging in the hammock, holding court and Hubby says, “He's going home...he's too comfortable."  Savage wasn't even a target at that point but I'll be damned if he didn't get blindsided that night.  So I always get nervous when I see players I like swinging on the hammock, especially if they're feeling quite smug as they do it.  

Did Sarah make a siren sound as she approached Cirie and Andrea at the watering hole??  Ugh.  

[Jersey Guy 87]

6 hours ago, cousin oliver said:

I'm fairly sure Debbie will start her jury speech with "As a former winner of Survivor..."

She may claim to be the originator of Survivor.

[Jobiska]

I play a lot of word games.  The minute I saw that one I knew it would be awful.  The phrase was long and there were so many common letters and even the slightly more unusual ones (M, V, G, Y, W, H, P) are not *that* unusual (heck, not even all of those rate 4 points in Scrabble!).  I think both(?) teams got stuck on "-MENT" and therefore didn't think of "-ING," and I can see how that would happen.  

You know what would be cool?  if Probst offered a "name that tune" type option, that one team could, after a certain amount of time, say they bet the other couldn't solve the puzzle in X amount of time (with team 2 having the option to challenge back with a lower time) and then the team that had challenged would have to stand down; if the others solved quickly, they win, otherwise the challenging team would win.

I agree that Zeke's internal push to make big moves comes partly from the back-to-back season effect mentioned above; part is how his first season played out, with them big deals of things that were unusual or new approaches; and maybe, partly, because he didn't want his only role/story this time around to be "the guy that got outed as trans."  I can understand that.  I'm sure he knew it would  be big, but he didn't want it to be the only thing.  

I'm not a Debbie fan, and I do think she's more of an idiot than those who, y'know, outlasted her, but I have to admit I had to laugh at Hali's earnest "Game changers!" followed by Debbie's retort "Idiots!"  And I'm pretty sure Troyzan heard her, because the camera caught him laugh/smiling on his way out right after that.  (Wish they had let him have his Spin and Grin hashtag, too).  

I think Michaela's tears were a combination of guilt, things not going the way she thought was sensible, actually feeling bad for someone she does care about, but also extreme hunger and fatigue.  Some of them are starting to show the hunger effects in their bodies and behavior.  I think it also explains Brad's muscle tone loss in his pecs (noted above as man boobs flapping).  

I enjoy watching scrambling Sierra more than smug Sierra.

 

[NeverLate]

6 hours ago, cousin oliver said:

I'm fairly sure Debbie will start her jury speech with "As a former winner of Survivor..."

LOL.. this!!! too funny.