S08.E22: Goverre, SeeRescue Streamer, BootyQueen Apparel, Loctote

[yeswedo]

Quote

Newlyweds and bodybuilders from Dallas, Texas, married strength with glamour and created a fitness apparel line that caters to the woman who loves building her booty; two friends from San Marcos, California, need the Sharks' help to grow their no-spill, portable and stem-less wine glass business; a Ph.D. scientist and big-wave surfer from Honolulu, Hawaii, invented a rescue signal for people that could make the difference between life and death; and two entrepreneurs from New Albany, Ohio, hope to bag some Sharks into a deal with their unique slash-proof and water-resistant backpacks. Also, a follow-up with Erik Hopperstad and Brian Brasch from Fargo, North Dakota, and their business, PRX Performance, which fits home gym equipment into small spaces, which Kevin O'Leary invested in during season 7.

[Thriftykins]

*groan*  Another apparel business.  Why are there so many apparel businesses?

[cooksdelight]

On 4/20/2017 at 6:14 AM, yeswedo said:

no-spill, portable and stem-less wine glass business

Uh, they already exist. Rubbery ones we've used on a boat.

[cooksdelight]

They are the only ones with a sippy-cup lid, but read one review about the smell. And no way would most people pay $24 for one glass.

https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=goverre+portable+wine+glass&sprefix=Goverre+%2Caps%2C597&crid=2JNBJ54565MU0

[lor]

that woman with the big butt was stunning. her husband could crush people in half.  i dont get the big butt craze. i dont understand the big deal about those pants. once you take them off your butt is small. 

what happens if this womans behind gets droopy when shes older. i guess then they are out of business

i liked that lock bag idea.that good looking young guy must really love that product to work for nothing.

[hula-la]

The sippy cup women mispronounced Zinfandel and Pinot noir. While I'm all for non spilling, this seems like a product geared for those who want to drink away being a spectator at their child's sporting event. I'll stick with carrying wine in my reusable coffee cup (not that I've ever brought wine into an area where it wasn't allowed).

[LittleIggy]

$24 a glass was ridiculous! Why didn't the rescue signal guy get a deal? I don't understand it. I couldn't stand Baby Got Back and her freakish looking bodybuilder husband. Ugh.

[Chippings]

Well that was entirely frustrating!  The fellow with the life-saving product had something absolutely unique and truly valuable, and he was a likeable person whom you could respect.  And for technical reasons about the niche-ness of its market (except for the military aspect), he got no deal.

Then Booty-babe had a product that was simply another set of leggings / workout wear.  She said, if I understood correctly, that they didn't have anything inside to elevate or poof out the fanny at all.  But because of her too-perky and overbearing personality, and people who follow photos of her sticking our her rear half, she got money and a Shark to assist her.   It made no sense, and was pretty frustrating actually.  

It's much more gratifying when you're rooting for the entrepreneur and cheer when they get a deal.  No such luck this evening!  I hope in a year or so we see a follow-up of the life-saving orange device, and find that he is hugely successful.

[cooksdelight]

I didn't understand the lifesaving device not getting a deal, at all. Not one of them said, "You know what, I may lose money initially, but this is something the world needs and I want to get in on the ground floor." There's a little boy and his grandmother lost in the Grand Canyon from nearby Chattanooga, that might have made all the difference.

Instead they buy in with butt lady, and that silly wine sippy cup. Not one of them mentioned there have been unbreakable stemless glasses on the market for years, and there are stainless steel sippy cups for hiding what you're drinking.

LocTote got their price down on Amazon, so something must be in the works. But one guy complained his arrived with a hole in it. So..... guess it's not so cut-proof after all.

Wine cup is still at $24, I get the feeling once they got off the stage, the three bozos did a little research and possibly backed out. I want an update on that stupid thing.

[BusyOctober]

I'm with you guys in the confused and baffled group re. the life saving device not getting a deal. Yet, steroid filled body butt builders get a deal?  I am not a fitness guru, I don't work out and I have never been to a gym, so I would never buy their leggings. I found that couple so off putting.  They were obnoxious.  I turned the sound off once she started listing all her "accomplishments".  And anyone who thinks her husband achieved his physique in a natural, chemical free manner is dopey enough to buy those butt pants. No one can get arms that enlarged merely by lifting weights. 

The wine sippy cup looks like other things I've seen at cutesy wootsey boutiques. The stores filled with Lily Pulitzer notebooks, Vera Bradley cell phone cases and hundreds of those bead charm bracelets would have a display of those glasses next to all those "cute" wooden signs about how Mommy needs her wine. I don't understand the need for some adults to have alcohol within reach 24/7.  I would never think of bringing a drink to my kid's event!  I don't typically drink much beyond a glass of wine if we go out to dinner or a cocktail at a party, so I'm definitely not the market for these boozey play date moms.

In addition to not working out & not being a drinker, I obviously don't travel enough to be in need of a slash resistant backpack!  Once the bag guy demonstrated how a thief could just cut open your bag from behind, I guess it made sense.  Are the shoulder straps made of the same non-slash material?  If not, what prevents someone from swiping their box cutter across the strings?  When I travel, I keep my passport and money/credit cards on my person, so again, another product not aimed at me. I hope the guy is able to make a goof his business and he recovers from his cancer. And makes enough money to pay that kid a salary!

[cooksdelight]

The one moment I loved was at the very end when Robert swooped in and stole the deal from Kevin. That was pure beauty in motion!

[Primetimer]

Daymond John may get a little pick-me-up from an overjoyed body builder, but where's the helpful meaty hand to lead the rest of us through this confusing episode?

View the full article

[Vanderboom]

At this point, I'm wondering if something was edited out of the rescue strip presentation. I thought Dr. Rob had a good point about the mandate and working up to a military contact. Then again, maybe there's a reason I'm not a shark myself. 

Edited April 22, 2017 by Vanderboom

[rhys]

Busy October, I wondered the same thing as you did about the straps. There are some bags & purses in travel catalogs showing them with straps that have metal in them so a thief can't cut the straps & run.

[nutella fitzgerald]

On 4/20/2017 at 6:14 AM, yeswedo said:

Quote

no-spill, portable and stem-less wine glass business

That's the problem with stemless wine glasses. It's so hard to transport them from place to place, thank the shark gods there's a portable stemless option!

ETA: with the sippy cup-ness being the real selling point, I have to wonder if it would confuse actual children to find that all of a sudden, some of the sippy cups around the house were a lot more fun than the others.

Edited April 22, 2017 by nutella fitzgerald

[theatremouse]

12 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Why didn't the rescue signal guy get a deal? I don't understand it.

I'm assuming there was more detailed reasoning edited out, but the vibe I got from what we were shown was that the guy strongly wanted to go the route of lobbying the government to require it as a next step to expand it further. And the sharks seemed to want no part of that. Not that they seemed to be against it happening, just that they perhaps didn't have the skillset to help in that regard and they thought it would take more than just cash from them to make it happen. The business seemed to have previously been most successful due to the licensing deal, which expired. So possibly they thought, hey that was great go back to that, and he was all "nope, this is the route now". If they disagreed on that and it was a dealbreaker on both sides, I can see how it ended the way it did: they wanted his product to continue, but didn't want to invest in it.

[shksabelle]

One thing I really like about this show is getting the real scoop on how overpriced so much crap is. I totally understand business and profit, but it really helps me think about my buying decisions. $24 for a sippy cup that cost $5.50, and they could probably make it for a lit less. 

And the butt woman and her freak, steroid-infused husband were beyond gross. 

[Wings]

On amazon the glasses are selling @ $39.99 for a set of 4.  There are many complaints that the glass is very thin and break easily. 

The rescue mat is also on amazon for $80.  I understand why he didn't get a deal.  Trying to get the government to buy your product to use is not practical, it can take years.  The consumer market is very small.  The owner is correct in that the main buyers will be people giving them to their loved ones who live a lifestyle that takes them off the grid.  

Leggings.  Jesus.  The only thing worse are organic dog cookies.  

Edited April 22, 2017 by wings707

[cooksdelight]

No, that's a different product. Goverre is the name of the ones on the show. The link I listed earlier for Goverre, they no longer exist on Amazon. But they were there last night.

https://smile.amazon.com/Lifefactory-11-Ounce-BPA-Free-Protective-Multicolor/dp/B00T10GG12/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492892757&sr=8-1&keywords=goverre+portable+wine+glass

[Etta Place]

The sharks all saying they didn't think bags being cut were such a problem just goes to show that their travel in other countries is much different than the average person's.

[fivestone]

10 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

The one moment I loved was at the very end when Robert swooped in and stole the deal from Kevin. That was pure beauty in motion!

I'm never really crazy about that, unless it's obvious the Shark is really into the product and believes in the entrepreneur, and swooping in there is more about investing in something than they believe in than screwing another Shark over.

[Latverian Diplomat]

3 hours ago, shksabelle said:

One thing I really like about this show is getting the real scoop on how overpriced so much crap is. I totally understand business and profit, but it really helps me think about my buying decisions. $24 for a sippy cup that cost $5.50, and they could probably make it for a lit less. 

 

FWIW, a 100% markup is not uncommon in retail. So if they're going through a retail channel, they aren't seeing all of that profit, they may be wholesaling for $12, especially with small orders from specialty stores.

40 minutes ago, fivestone said:

I'm never really crazy about that, unless it's obvious the Shark is really into the product and believes in the entrepreneur, and swooping in there is more about investing in something than they believe in than screwing another Shark over.

I understand that.

It was an insanely good (desperate?) offer. Robert seemed pretty confident he'd get his money back, and that was good enough for him (and Mark apparently agreed).

Kevin believed in telling them how to run their company, I'm not sure he was that enthusiastic about the product.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Latverian Diplomat

[Latverian Diplomat]

About the rescue signal thing...it seems to have one use, which is to help you be found by an aerial search. 

I think that consumers would prefer products that helped them avoid getting in that bad, which is why the emphasis is probably more on GPS and other electronics these days. I think this design is 20 years old and it shows. Yes, electronics can fail, but it can also do a lot more for you when it works, which it usually does.

wrt the hiking market especially, it's lightweight but not zero weight, not sure how much it helps in heavily forested areas, there are more options for improvising a signal aerial search, and "Sea Rescue" is not a great name for that market.  

[Eolivet]

LocTote guy: "I was diagnosed with cancer. The really nasty kind."

As opposed to all of the other...nice kinds of cancers?

[AyeshaTheGreat]

1 hour ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

 

wrt the hiking market especially, it's lightweight but not zero weight, not sure how much it helps in heavily forested areas, there are more options for improvising a signal aerial search, and "Sea Rescue" is not a great name for that market.  

In fairness to his company, the name is "See/Rescue Streamer".

As for other parts of this episode, the whole "butt" pitch was rather problematic.  Beyond the stupid apparel and how either of the couple looked, the woman proclaiming herself as a "booty queen" and the sharks debating on whether big butts were "in" or not had my eyes almost roll out of socket.  And to top it off, Daymond (of all sharks) decided to team up with the "booty queen". 

[bilgistic]

And they were $129! And did nothing!

[questionfear]

I realized while watching tonight that Robert basically does this show for the swag. He gets way too excited about free samples. 

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, Etta Place said:

The sharks all saying they didn't think bags being cut were such a problem just goes to show that their travel in other countries is much different than the average person's.

That kind of thing happens a lot on this show. 

What was with the sharks not understanding they weren't supposed to see anything in that picture the rescue guy showed of a person lost at sea?

[LotusFlower]

4 hours ago, Eolivet said:

LocTote guy: "I was diagnosed with cancer. The really nasty kind."

As opposed to all of the other...nice kinds of cancers?

I hate when personal, sympathy-inducing stories are brought up in the tank, but....there are different kinds of cancer.  Some are treatable, some are not.

[cooksdelight]

6 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

What was with the sharks not understanding they weren't supposed to see anything in that picture the rescue guy showed of a person lost at sea?

I think his entire pitch was lost on them and went right over their heads.

[aemom]

His website is quite good - explaining how it works with before and after photos.

http://seerescuestreamer.com

I hope he does well without the sharks. This was a smart product. 

Edited to add that it's available on Amazon as well as the Sea Rescue website, but the prices on Amazon Canada are insane (sold by another party)

Edited April 23, 2017 by AEMom

[needschocolate]

Everybody loved the rescue device, thought it was a necessary product, thought the guy was great and no one offered a deal.  That was unusual.  

I don't drink wine.  Whatever you spend on a bottle or on the glass to drink it from is too expensive to me.  

The Loctote bag - I can see people using to carry their wallet and passport, but your phone has to be more accessible.  

Regarding the butt lady - I think Daymond understands that there are a lot of people who don't buy clothes based on how they look in them, they buy them based on how they think they look in them.  There are a lot of women that will buy the pants because they think their butts will look just like hers when you put on the pants.  

The big butts conversation got me thinking about the woman last season (?) that wanted the Shraks to invest in her mirror that builds self-esteem by making you look smaller than you really are.  She have to change it so parts of your waist looks smaller, but you butt looks bigger and then really short people (my waist looks huge and my chest looks small!) and really tall people (my thighs look huge and my butt looks small) would never be happy.

[ClareWalks]

On 4/22/2017 at 7:28 AM, BusyOctober said:

 I am not a fitness guru, I don't work out and I have never been to a gym, so I would never buy their leggings. I found that couple so off putting.  They were obnoxious.  I turned the sound off once she started listing all her "accomplishments".

I have been a certified personal trainer for 9 years and I wanted to CHOKE those bitches. That woman was truly insufferable. "My butt is just that amazing! The leggings do nothing!" FUCK YOU, lady. Seriously, I get that butts are "in" right now, and I"m sure any woman willing to showcase her ass has a huge social media following, but that doesn't mean you should be selling your own unremarkable leggings. Keep modeling and enjoy having a flawless ass until you turn 40 and gravity starts working its magic, as it does with us all. Being an "influencer" is a temporary state, as is having a butt that could crack walnuts in half. As for her ass being inspirational, please. Not many people are genetically capable of having an ass like that no matter how hard they work out or how perfectly they eat. Anyone who sees that and thinks "wow, if she can do that I can too" is tremendously naive. And don't get me started on the dude, who was far too enormous and almost certainly has calf implants. I told my husband "that guy has NO SOLEUS MUSCLES." Gross, dude. Sorry about it. Not my type.

[bilgistic]

2 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

I told my husband "that guy has NO SOLEUS MUSCLES." Gross, dude. Sorry about it. Not my type.

I think that means he had chicken legs? Because that's what I thought. Bawk bawk!

16 minutes ago, needschocolate said:

The Loctote bag - I can see people using to carry their wallet and passport, but your phone has to be more accessible.

They needed to show if it could fit a laptop so that if you need to go to the bathroom at Starbucks, no one will steal it (your laptop, not Starbucks). It's Sunday; my syntax is off today.

[ClareWalks]

Just now, bilgistic said:

I think that means he had chicken legs? Because that's what I thought. Bawk bawk!

Basically, LOL. There are two major muscles in the calves, the gastrocnemius (the top that bulges out) and the soleus, which connects the gastroc to the heel. If the gastroc is huge and the soleus is skinny as fuck, it produces this insane "wine glass" lookin' effect that makes a man look like an idiot, IMO. A man who has calf muscles that are well-developed through actual strenuous exercise will be well-balanced from top to bottom, and this dude just had the slimmest ankles I have ever seen. 

[cooksdelight]

There's a reason muscle man wasn't talking. He'd probably only be able to say "cool..."

[needschocolate]

After having recently flown, all I could think of when looking at the muscle guy was how much I would hate to sit next to him on a plane - and how difficult it must be for him to buy any shirt with sleeves.  

[starri]

Friends don't let friends skip Leg Day.

Were the Ass Tights that different from any other aspirational brand like Lululemon?  From what little I know about the latter, it seems more like a cult than a manufacturer of workout gear.  Like, the one selling point that made this any different from anything was her putting her spandex-clad butt on social media, no?  Will Daymond require her to take out an insurance policy on it, like Mary Hart's legs?

The guy with the bag had such an annoying voice, I was begging the universe to send him home without a deal.

Wino Moms got one point from me, and only one:  Neither of them whined about all the sacrifices they'd had to make, which would have rung a little hollow when we saw them at the $10K barbecue island in one of their backyards.  I also...look, I'm not much of a drinker, but I do enjoy a glass of wine on those rare occasions when I do.  I do not see the appeal of putting half a bottle into a sippy cup, and risk running afoul of open container laws.  I especially think someone who feels the need to do that frequently might need to go on a certain other reality series.  And also, when I AM drinking, it would usually be a wine that costs less than that glass does.

After they mentioned the MD 20/20 to Mark, I wanted to throw up.  I have some bad memories of that shit.

[cooksdelight]

7 minutes ago, starri said:

After they mentioned the MD 20/20 to Mark, I wanted to throw up.  I have some bad memories of that shit.

You and me both. And a guy named Kurt... shudder....

[Gregg247]

6 hours ago, needschocolate said:

After having recently flown, all I could think of when looking at the muscle guy was how much I would hate to sit next to him on a plane - and how difficult it must be for him to buy any shirt with sleeves.  

Well, as long as he didn't oil up before boarding, it'd probably be okay. ;)

(I wonder if he could get his arms to stay down by his sides during the flight, or if they'd keep popping up like bread in a toaster.)

(The good thing is that he's huge from the waist up, tiny below; she's huge in the butt, but slender up top.  Together, they'd fit into 2 seats just fine!)

[UsernameFatigue]

Butt lady and muscle man were soooooo annoying. I have no idea why they got a deal. The apparel was nothing special, and neither were they. If I was going to buy fitness apparel because of how the creator looks, I would buy Kate Hudson's which I think is very cute and reasonably priced. I would not buy from a Kardashian wannabe who is already looking a little long in the tooth, and who's product is nothing special and overpriced. 

The segment on the rescue signal guy seemed to be missing parts of the back and forth. It just made no sense to me that not one shark was interested. But three were thrilled to buy into a sippy cup for wine lovers. I just do not get this show at times. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by UsernameFatigue

[Thriftykins]

I too thought the life saving device would get a deal.  It was nice to see something new, rather than the oh-so frequent categories of apparel and "gluten free, vegan, gmo-free, salt-free, fat-free, all natural, organic, made of crushed cockroaches and newspaper whatever food".

 

I think they all passed on it because they just felt out of their depth on marketing it.  None of the sharks had any inroads to the kind of companies that would market and sell this.

 

But of course the inevitable billionth clothing line pitched on Shark Tank the did invest in because they all know apparel because there have been a billion clothing pitches.

But hey, maybe the exposure will get him some deals from another investor.

[Thriftykins]

On 4/22/2017 at 9:04 PM, Eolivet said:

LocTote guy: "I was diagnosed with cancer. The really nasty kind."

As opposed to all of the other...nice kinds of cancers?

You know, like the brain cancer John Travolta had in that movie "Phenomenon", which made him a super genius.  Or that Christopher Shyer had in the shot-for-shot remake from 7 years later, confusingly named "Phenomenon II".

[cooksdelight]

If Ashton Kucher had been there, he'd have invested in the life-saving devices. 

[Thriftykins]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

If Ashton Kucher had been there, he'd have invested in the life-saving devices. 

If Chris Saca had been there, he'd have pointed out that the SeeRescue is useless, because people who get lost at sea just take out their smartphones and get an Uber.

[Jersey Guy 87]

On 4/22/2017 at 0:56 PM, theatremouse said:

I'm assuming there was more detailed reasoning edited out, but the vibe I got from what we were shown was that the guy strongly wanted to go the route of lobbying the government to require it as a next step to expand it further. And the sharks seemed to want no part of that. Not that they seemed to be against it happening, just that they perhaps didn't have the skillset to help in that regard and they thought it would take more than just cash from them to make it happen. The business seemed to have previously been most successful due to the licensing deal, which expired. So possibly they thought, hey that was great go back to that, and he was all "nope, this is the route now". If they disagreed on that and it was a dealbreaker on both sides, I can see how it ended the way it did: they wanted his product to continue, but didn't want to invest in it.

I get that sense as well - the government requirement path is a long and costly one.  As a consumer device the market is pretty small.  As one product in a portfolio of other wilderness safety gear products it would probably be good but by itself I don't think there's a lot of money to be made by a shark.

On 4/22/2017 at 5:36 PM, Etta Place said:

The sharks all saying they didn't think bags being cut were such a problem just goes to show that their travel in other countries is much different than the average person's.

Apparently so is mine - I've been to Europe quite a bit and Asia to a much lesser extent (China, Japan, Singapore), having a bag slashed was never a major concern.

I'd also never carry my stuff in one of those string bags.

21 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

There's a reason muscle man wasn't talking. He'd probably only be able to say "cool..."

Plus dude and bro.

The wine cup ladies did a nice job of appearing to be overly concerned with getting drunk in public.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

I am surprised people are surprised that Daymond would invest in the apparel line.  He is in the fashion industry and he knows it isn't built on "standards" or anything like that, it is all about "trends" and followings.  He built Fubu from the ground up, with this "Booty Queen" label, all the hard work has already been done for him.  Nothing in the fashion industry is "proprietary", I mean a T-shirt is a T-shirt, jeans are jeans, etc.  As someone mentioned above, the selling point isn't if the clothes actually look good on you, it is that you believe it will look good on you.

And it isn't surprising that the rescue equipment didn't get invested in, the Sharks are in it for the money, the amount of time and effort to make the item scaleable (getting the mandates and/or government contract) not to mention their own lack of expertise in those fields, made it a non-starter.  They always talk about how not only are the pitchers getting their money, but their expertise and help, and they seem to really do that, regardless of their equity stake, so I think when confronted with something they have no ability to really add anything to the field except cash, they shy away from it.

[Bookish Jen]

On 4/23/2017 at 11:59 AM, ClareWalks said:

I have been a certified personal trainer for 9 years and I wanted to CHOKE those bitches. That woman was truly insufferable. "My butt is just that amazing! The leggings do nothing!" FUCK YOU, lady. Seriously, I get that butts are "in" right now, and I"m sure any woman willing to showcase her ass has a huge social media following, but that doesn't mean you should be selling your own unremarkable leggings. Keep modeling and enjoy having a flawless ass until you turn 40 and gravity starts working its magic, as it does with us all. Being an "influencer" is a temporary state, as is having a butt that could crack walnuts in half. As for her ass being inspirational, please. Not many people are genetically capable of having an ass like that no matter how hard they work out or how perfectly they eat. Anyone who sees that and thinks "wow, if she can do that I can too" is tremendously naive. And don't get me started on the dude, who was far too enormous and almost certainly has calf implants. I told my husband "that guy has NO SOLEUS MUSCLES." Gross, dude. Sorry about it. Not my type.

Yes, Instagram Butt Model is merely a trend, and leggings are hardly fashion forward; today they are basic utility wear for both workouts and casual days. I don't want to by a brand; I want to buy a quality product. My kingdom for some well-made leggings and yoga pants that don't fall apart after a few wearings and/or washings.

[ClareWalks]

31 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

My kingdom for some well-made leggings and yoga pants that don't fall apart after a few wearings and/or washings.

I've had good luck with Old Navy yoga pants, which are also very inexpensive. I used to like Nike pants, but they changed the fabric and it now SUCKS, and the exorbitant cost makes it even easier to say "no." 

Do Ass Lady's leggings really cost over $100? Dear sweet Christ. I can get great tech-fabric tights at Kohls for under $20. I got some spandex shorts that hit just above the knee (ie: not in the crotch) on Amazon for $8 each. There are literally millions of inexpensive, good leggings out there, I don't know how the "luxury brands" stay in business.

[Amarsir]

7 hours ago, Jersey Guy 87 said:

I've been to Europe quite a bit and Asia to a much lesser extent (China, Japan, Singapore), having a bag slashed was never a major concern.

But you have heard of it, I'm guessing. I'm in the same boat - aware of it, never experienced or met someone it happened to. I'm sure it's a valid concern, but not something I'd buy an expensive bag strictly to combat. 

On 4/22/2017 at 7:34 PM, Latverian Diplomat said:

FWIW, a 100% markup is not uncommon in retail. So if they're going through a retail channel, they aren't seeing all of that profit, they may be wholesaling for $12, especially with small orders from specialty stores.

Correct. In fact there's a name for it: keystone markup. Take your manufacture price, double that price sells to the store, and double that to the customer. It's nice to get more and sometimes you have to take less, but that's a pretty good rule of thumb. And after overhead, inventory carrying costs, etc, not as much profit gets to the bottom line as you might think.