S34.E07: What Happened on Exile, Stays on Exile

[Thumper82003]

4 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Wait...what? The associate producer outed Zeke to Varner? Or Varner asked and the associate producer confirmed it (again, outing Zeke to Varner)?

That would simultaneously shock me and yet, I would not be the least bit surprised.

What I meant is that Varner may have talked about Zeke to the ap interviewing him. I assume Varner talked to someone before TC. IF this is the case, there was the opportunity of of Varner being warned not to do it. All this is assuming that Varner was interviewed & JP was told what could happen.

i think that this should not have been aired. They could come up with a story to cover this up. Not that it needs covering up but that it was Zeke's to decide what he wanted people to know. And when he wanted them to know.

[himela]

I just watched the episode and I'm shocked! I don't even remember another incident in Survivor history that was that personal and disgusting and much more from a person I used to like and who is a gay person himself! I mean, the moment he said that sentence I was so shocked I assumed I didn't hear well so I stopped, went back and heard it again, and that was what he had said. I can't believe what this disgusting person did for a million dollars and to such a likeable person who actually helped him and made him feel better. I thing words mean nothing at the moment...

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

This is the kind of day that makes me apologize for saying what's been said a million times already but I'm so just hurt that one human being could stoop that low I have to make sure I'm out here adding my voice in saying this was absolutely hideous and not even close to okay. Probably the sickest betrayal ever on the show, the lowest of the lowest actions we've ever seen. And to come from another gay person, a sort of activist (well until tonight) and someone trusted with info for that exact reason, that maybe only he would understand what a cruel cut, what a sick and vile action this is... and then intentionally do it and excuse it as a game move... just reprehensible.

I know, I know, it's a stoopid teevee show and I shouldn't be upset about it but I am. I can barely formulate a message tonight.

I'm sorry Zeke.

I believe, though that's kind of the point of why the widespread outrage and upset.  Varner's ploy went way beyond the scope of the stoopid teevee show, and directly intruded into and impacted Zeke's life on the outside.

For me this was one of those moments I was supremely glad I was not a Survivor contestant, because if I had been sitting on one of those logs I'm pretty certain my reaction would have been something in the nature of standing, turning to Varner, and asking - very loudly - "WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING!?!?"

As you may have detected, this tends to be kinda a trigger thing for me for several reasons.

 

28 minutes ago, niklj said:

Zeke and GLAAD worked with CBS on airing this episode.

Now THAT'S taking lemons and making lemonade, by God.

[vb68]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

I think Ozzy's great but he appears to engage in zero game play.   Never see him bonding with other players or strategizing.   You would think by now he would realize he can't make it on challenge wins alone.

Yeah I knew last week when he helped get rid of Sandra that the main target was automatically going to shift to him. And it did. And I mean, I see no indication that he thought about that in any meaningful way. He really isn't great at strategy. Though I would have liked to have heard his arguments for keeping him tonight. 

[Brynnjk]

I had a work phone call last night that happened right around the end of the immunity challenge and turned off the tv.  I was dreading turning it back on because I was afraid Ozzy was going to be voted off and I love Ozzy.  Though I certainly agree with the poster who said above that he really needs to try making some alliances after his name coming up 2x in a row.

I could not believe what I heard.  That was horrible to watch.  Zeke's face, his eyes.  He really looked like he was in a state of disconnect.  I was so happy to see everyone on the tribe condemning Varner.  Though I disliked Sarah even more for making it about her.  I mean I'm glad she had a learning moment there but that wasn't the place for it.  

I always thought watching the Richard/Sue meltdown stuff on Allstars was one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever watched on Survivor.  This just shot ahead of that.  What was he thinking?  I've always thought the "I may be going but I will burn everything down as I go" a stupid strategy anyway but this made absolutely no sense.  

[Nashville]

3 minutes ago, Brynnjk said:

That was horrible to watch.  Zeke's face, his eyes.  He really looked like he was in a state of disconnect. 

Disconnect, nothing; Zeke looked like someone had just whacked him between the eyes with a 2x4.  That was shock on a purely jarring level.  My impression was that for several minutes there, Zeke simply could NOT believe this was happening to him - and on a forum destined to be broadcast worldwide, no less.

[MostlyContent]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

For me this was one of those moments I was supremely glad I was not a Survivor contestant, because if I had been sitting on one of those logs I'm pretty certain my reaction would have been something in the nature of standing, turning to Varner, and asking - very loudly - "WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING!?!?"

I think this probably happened actually, and they're just showing us the 'metamorphosis' parts.  It went from everyone having a meltdown to everyone sitting there in shock.  

I just watched it again.  Can I just say, watching Varner early in the program sitting there totally pissed off that he wasn't included in the Sandra vote, and then in steps descending into the worst asshole in the world was a whole other level of disgusting.  

I still can't even believe that he did that.  HOW could he do that?  

I read the article in People magazine (online), and Zeke was honest and having a hard time trying to forgive him, also.  

When (and if) Zeke reaches that point, I will (perhaps).  But not until.  

That fucking asshole.  

Edited April 13, 2017 by MostlyContent

[MisterBluxom]

4 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

1. I feel gross just for having watched this violent act

2. I feel even more gross talking about it online especially on a forum (and all forums are like this now) where you collect Internet Points (likes, etc), which influences you (or anyway me) in some deep dark way like underground water moving a dowsing rod.  Like look at this very fucking post, it's moving it too.

3. It's frankly not Survivor and I don't want to use this forum to talk about anything but Survivor.  Probably I should have not said anything at all, but sometimes when I don't people @ me anyhow.

I understand and I sympathize. Please. Let me recommend a documentary to you that deals with some of these subjects.

It's called, "Terms & Conditions May Apply"  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2084953/

This documentary addresses this exact point and explains how clicking on many of the things that we click on without a second thought, can be detrimental to our privacy and security. Apparently, large corporations (like Facebook, etc.) are now selling the information about who likes what so that other companies can target people who like certain things with the idea of helping companies sell more of their stuff based on these peoples' preferences.

If you are serious about wanting to do something to combat this phenomena (and I think that is eminently reasonable), you can spread the word that when you click on "Like" etc. (and there are other associated kinds of associated "clicks"), that info can then be accumulated and sold so that people can target you to buy their stuff based on your behavior.  IMHO, spreading the word about this can make a big dent in the activity and hopefully, even maybe put a stop to it.  I think it's a real good use of the Internet to spread the word about this.

The documentary is called "Terms & Conditions May Apply" and it's about the harm that can be done to you when you click on box at a new website that asks if you agree to it's "Terms & Conditions May Apply". It is unbelievable what you are opening yourself to when you agree to that and most of us never even give it a second thought or understand just what will happen after we click on this choice.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2084953/

Edited April 13, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Izabela]

That was horrible. I've never felt so much horror and anger and revulsion and sadness at any moment of Survivor before. Varner's thinking and actions are just incomprehensibly stupid and awful, like much of the still existing animosity and prejudice towards transgender people out there today.  In so many ways, so many tropes and narratives, we are still portrayed as somehow being essentially deceitful, inauthentic, untrustworthy and that's what Varner tried to use.  Lots of credit to Zeke there, he held himself together and while that should have never happened, he should have never been made into one, he will be a positive role model for people to see.

It's good to hear that CBS worked with GLAAD and Zeke on this episode and I will give them credit that they did a good job with this. 

But oh my god, I find myself wondering what I'll hear coworkers saying today at work. We've got a group of people in our department who usually discuss the events of the previous night's episode and I'm among them. What they, except for one, don't know is that I'm in the process of making my own transition. Tomorrow I'll be going to doctor's appointment so I can start HRT and I still have lots of fear and anxiety about what the coming months will be like. In so many ways, I wish it were something I could do by going away to another country for a few years and then come back and take up a life where I'm just regarded as me, not as "the transgender." But I don't have the money to do that and I will be transitioning where I work.

So what will I hear today? You better believe I'll be listening for anything from coworkers that might reveal they think transgender people are freaks. And somehow I'll have to hold myself together and not start crying about something if it pushes on me in a sensitive spot. 

I never thought I would feel more revulsion towards any survivor than Russell Hantz. Jeff Varner pulled that off last night. Ugh.

[LoveLeigh]

CBS could have easily edited that all out, if Zeke was not ready to share it with the Survivor viewers. I think they exploited the incident and while Varner was totally wrong to do it CBS was worse. 

CBS could have edited what Varner said out and they all could have gone straight to a vote and voted Varner out. The viewing audience would never have known. CBS was despicable.

7 minutes ago, Izabela said:

t's good to hear that CBS worked with GLAAD and Zeke on this episode and I will give them credit that they did a good job with this. 

That's great, but it never had to even get to that point if Zeke just said: I am not ready to share this so please edit it out. CBS did the right thing to contact GLAAD but I believe they wanted this publicity and saw it as a chance to milk ratings. 

[Izabela]

12 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

CBS could have easily edited that all out, if Zeke was not ready to share it with the Survivor viewers. I think they exploited the incident and while Varner was totally wrong to do it CBS was worse. 

CBS could have edited what Varner said out and they all could have gone straight to a vote and voted Varner out. The viewing audience would never have known. CBS was despicable.

That's great, but it never had to even get to that point if Zeke just said: I am not ready to share this so please edit it out. CBS did the right thing to contact GLAAD but I believe they wanted this publicity and saw it as a chance to milk ratings. 

But it seems that Zeke did give the okay, right? Of course we don't know how much pressure CBS might have brought to bear to get Zeke's consent, but we don't know. What we do know is that Zeke consented and that CBS worked with people to make sure the episode did nothing to negatively portray transgender people. I'm going to take that as a victory, maybe the best one possible out of that shit move that Varner made in a colossal fit of stupidity. 

I'm certainly not going to be comfortable saying anything that sounds like "Well if only Zeke had been stronger and refused to let CBS do anything with this..." That doesn't seem fair to Zeke.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, MrsR said:

False, that was Shirin.

Thanks a lot!  That vile, disturbing image had finally faded from my memory and now you have restored it. :)

[wallflower75]

50 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

CBS could have easily edited that all out, if Zeke was not ready to share it with the Survivor viewers. I think they exploited the incident and while Varner was totally wrong to do it CBS was worse. 

CBS could have edited what Varner said out and they all could have gone straight to a vote and voted Varner out. The viewing audience would never have known. CBS was despicable.

The problem you'd have with taking out what happened in this episode is the fact that Zeke being outed is probably going to echo throughout the rest of the season as long as he's still in the game.  It's easy to say that all they had to do was go straight to a vote (which someone somewhere pointed out takes a lot longer to get through than the blip we get on TV, which would only have prolonged the agony of that tribal council for Zeke).  But from that moment on in the game, that information about Zeke was out there.  It couldn't be taken back, and it undoubtedly affected Zeke's gameplay from here on out.

[millennium]

3 hours ago, Thumper82003 said:

What I meant is that Varner may have talked about Zeke to the ap interviewing him. I assume Varner talked to someone before TC. IF this is the case, there was the opportunity of of Varner being warned not to do it. All this is assuming that Varner was interviewed & JP was told what could happen.

 

IF Varner did talk to someone in advance (and I tend to think he did, too) it would explain where the hell that highly suspicious word - METAMORPHOSIS - came from.   I can't recall a single instance where the puzzle word was not related to some aspect of the Survivor game or the local culture.   METAMORPHOSIS has no relation to either, and in hindsight sticks out like a big red flag.   The whole situation reeks of manipulation.

And if that's the case, if Varner tipped off the producers in advance and they introduced that word METAMORPHOSIS into the challenge as a harbinger of what was to come, then they exploited Zeke every bit as maliciously as Varner did. 

[MisterBluxom]

4 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

1. I feel gross just for having watched this violent act

2. I feel even more gross talking about it online especially on a forum (and all forums are like this now) where you collect Internet Points (likes, etc), which influences you (or anyway me) in some deep dark way like underground water moving a dowsing rod.  Like look at this very fucking post, it's moving it too.

3. It's frankly not Survivor and I don't want to use this forum to talk about anything but Survivor.  Probably I should have not said anything at all, but sometimes when I don't people @ me anyhow.

It seems to me that perhaps I should offer some explanation about why KIMBERSTORMER (and others) may feel there is a problem with the nature of this discussion.

A summary explanation is given in the documentary (around the 15 minute mark) "Terms & Conditions May Apply" by Danah Boyd who is listed as a Senior Researcher for Microsoft. She is talking about Facebook and she says something like the following:

When personal information is public, that is not a big problem because people can adapt and cope with it. The same goes for personal info that is private. But, when the nature of our personal info changes, that is a big problem because people either don't know it was changed or can't cope with the change. She goes on to give an example. Some time ago, Facebook had around 350 million users and overnight, they changed the nature of all their subscribers' personal info from private to public. They did this overnight and they didn't tell anyone. There was an uproar about it but Facebook just kind of "pooh-poohed" it and scoffed at the idea this might be any kind of problem. But IMO as well as other peoples' opinions, it can be a large problem. I would like to suggest that if anyone else is interested in why, you may check out that documentary and see for yourself.

I'd like to thank KIMBERSTORMER for bringing this to light and for being sufficiently clever to see the relation between the kinds of discussions like this where our opinions may have at one time been private but then can be changed overnight to be public and we have no idea they were made public and who may be using this info or how it's being used. I feel very "creeped out" by the notion that I can express some personal opinions about this discussion but have no idea who is able to access my "Likes" and "Dislikes" will be used.  Personally, I find it very creepy and scary.

Edited April 13, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Superpole2000]

1 minute ago, millennium said:

IF Varner did talk to someone in advance (and I tend to think he did, too) it would explain where the hell that highly suspicious word - METAMORPHOSIS - came from.   I can't recall a single instance where the puzzle word was not related to some aspect of the Survivor game or the local culture.   METAMORPHOSIS has no relation to either, and in hindsight sticks out like a big red flag.   The whole situation reeks of manipulation.

And if that's the case, if Varner tipped off the producers in advance and they introduced that word METAMORPHOSIS into the challenge as a harbinger of what was to come, then they exploited Zeke every bit as maliciously as Varner did. 

I thought this through, and I was ready to 100% agree until I was reminded of the name of the season: Survivor Game Changers. It's in the title of the season, so I don't think the word is that unlikely to have been used.

I don't think CBS exploited Zeke. I believe Survivor would have kept the footage to themselves had Zeke really voiced displeasure and concern over this. I'm sure they have the legal right to show just about anything (contracts signed before the season starts), but these producers are not heartless bastards.

[SlackerInc]

8 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

The Survivors compete for yet more sad food, followed by a wrenching, awkward Tribal Council.

View the full article

I really appreciated this recap because it did go into a full discussion of the episode (my favorite recapper refused to do a recap this week and just talked about the outing).  I kind of wish we had two episode threads this week, with one being reserved for the stuff that happened up to and including the immunity challenge.  I just have no interest whatever in discussing, or reading about, the "trans" stuff.  (I liked Zeke before this episode, FTR, and still like him.)

Anyway, the comment I wanted to make about this enjoyable and amusing recap is about the pizza.  I will fully admit to thinking it looked good (well, not the Hawaiian slices--an abomination I will never understand).  But you know how some people like "cold pizza" out of the fridge?  Others want it warm out of the oven.  Those are both okay, but my favorite is between the extremes: pizza that's been sitting out on the counter for 30-45 minutes or so: kinda congealed, but not yet hardened.  (Does that make me a monster?  LOL)

ETA: Do the rules allow Probst to just call it the way he did?  What if Varner had an idol?  I don't understand why he didn't still hold a vote.

Edited April 13, 2017 by SlackerInc

[Lamb18]

8 hours ago, Lukeysboat said:

If Varner had been holding an idol, would he/could he have played it? I can't imagine he wanted to stick around after that horrific TC, but I did notice Probst never mentioned the idol possibility. 

I wonder if Varner will be at the reunion show. 

He probably could have, but if he'd had an idol he wouldn't have been so desperate and kept quiet about Zeke. Besides, I think Tai has the available idol. I think they reshuffled tribes before Varner had a chance to find J.T.'s rehidden idol (if it was).

[BusyOctober]

That was a horrible thing to do.  Looking at Zeke's face reminded me of seeing someone who's had the wind knocked out of them.  That wide-eyed, stunned stare and feeling like you're living in an alternate universe for a brief span of time.  Just so fucking thoughtless and malevolent on Varner's part.  He did that with intent.  All his back pedaling about how he thought "everyone knew" is utter BS and a sad, cliched, desperate attempt to cover his ass. 

As for whether Zeke had to give his OK to CBS to air this; I doubt they needed his stamp of approval.  I'm pretty sure all the Survivors sign their lives away when they are chosen to play (literally- there are accidental death clauses in the contracts that absolve CBS/Mark Burnett/Survivor etc from being at fault in the event of injury, maiming or death). I believe since the players know they are being filmed 24/7, there are paragraphs in the contracts about how any and all recorded media is the sole property of CBS/Survivor. I'm happy to see CBS worked with GLADD & Zeke to make the airing of this episode as "palatable" as possible for Zeke and the LGBTQ community and their supporters.  However, I don't think they had to do that.  They are a for-profit entertainment company.  Whatever sells the show or makes it money is fair game in their world.  Thankfully, TPTB have shown some sensitivity and approached this with a modicum of good sense.

[JudyObscure]

7 hours ago, pamplemousse said:

With that said, I didn't like how Sarah blubbered on for ages and seemed to turn it around and make it all about her and her narrow-minded Midwestern upbringing, I had to mute the tv.

Sarah didn't seem to be intending to say anything at all until Probst asked her to explain what she was thinking while she sat there looking stunned and tearful.  Even after he asked her, she paused and obviously struggled to find words to explain her feelings, she hadn't had time to write a concise speech and her feelings are by definition going to be about her. I don't think her Midwestern upbringing is  something she should be blamed for, in spite of all the prejudice and hatred toward people born between the coasts.

[Lamb18]

6 hours ago, simplyme said:

So yeah, as soon as Varner had the TH where he said something about telling them that Zeke was deceiving them, I started to dread where it was going.

6 hours ago, princelina said:

After thinking about it, I have decided that IMO Varner knew about it in the same way others on this board did - from previous news/postings elsewhere/etc.

Or Varner noticed certain subtle characteristics Zeke had that led him to that conclusion. If Varner does have friends who have transitioned, he may be familiar with the process and telltale characteristics that most people wouldn't notice.

I thought Zeke told Varner. We didn't see that but there was mention of conversations they'd had. My impression is that Zeke confided in Varner as someone he thought would understand, which makes it a real betrayal.

[NutMeg]

I'm still in shock from that tribal council, and when I'm in shock I go into analysing mode. And what I come up with is that the episode was filmed like a short feature. First, we have one tribe talk about how the game changes you deeply. (I'm going to call this the Chekhov's gun.) Then we have the immunity challenge, with Metamorphosis as the key word, which reinforces the theme the short feature (or play) is going for. And then the grand finale, where the theme of change blossoms to the fullest, with one man becoming very, very, very small, and another one showing himself as the bigger man. And the chorus all rallying behind the bigger man. 

What would be expected in a drama (theatre or movie) feels icky on a reality show. I'm all for blurring genre limitations, but Drama and Reality shows are two genres that should not have common frontiers.  

[mojoween]

Andrea's reaction was immediate, that we saw, and I noticed at the time that it struck me just how quickly she began sobbing.  It was an interesting reaction.

And then by the end of it I was crying too.

[ghoulina]

This may have been one of my least favorite episodes ever. So depressing. Not only for what happened to Zeke, but because of how thoroughly disappointed I was in Jeff Varner. I have always loved Jeff. I was rooting for him last night. And he pulled the rug right out from under my feet and slapped me in the face with it. 

I mean, I am still struggling to come up with the right words. Shocked. I was just shocked that he would do that. Not only was that incredibly INCREDIBLY cruel, to a person who he professed to have a great connection with. But it was fucking stupid game play as well. If he had just stuck with the "Ozzy and Zeke's inner alliance supersedes all" line, he might have had a chance. WHY he thought he needed to take it further than that, to make it personal, is beyond me. 

As a gay man, he should know that someone deciding when to reveal that type of information about themselves is NO indication of any inherent deceptiveness. So, what? Every closeted person in the world is equal to a devious liar? His train of thought MADE no sense to me. I get that he was desperate but that was just the lowest of the lowest lows. Wow. 

Zeke is a much better person than I am. You know, I started out loving him last season, and then I thought he got to smug and was a bit of a bully to David, and I soured on him. I'm still not loving him as a player right now, but it takes a lot of character to sit there and go through what he went through and be forgiving and graceful to Jeff after that. I mean, seriously. That's some fortitude right there. 

And I really wish they just never would have aired this. It was exploitative as hell. I'm no TV producer, so I don't want to talk out of my ass, but I'd like to think there was some way they could have handled things to avoid outing Zeke like that. Maybe they asked him later if they could air it? If not, I think after all that went down, Probst could have gone on with the regular vote and they could have edited it differently. I don't know....this is one time I would have been okay with some producer fuckery. Let Zeke make that decision. Plus, this show is a family affair in my house. This episode felt way too heavy and brought up topics I have yet to discuss with my young children. 

Just all around it left a bad taste in my mouth. 

 

I don't really have much else to say. TC kind of overshadowed everything else. I did enjoy when the Red Tribe was chatting about how being on the game changes you, and how life has been different for them after going back to their regular lives. It was nice to see Brad showing some emotion and opening up to his tribe. I've never had an issue with Brad like most, and I love Aubry. So maybe they can get something cool going? 

This season needs SOMETHING to turn it around at this point. 

[Jel]

I was also outraged and and so angry at Varner; how dare he make that decision for for anyone else? How spiteful, desperate, pitiful a move, and for what? To stay in a game for another day or two? Despicable. I could have left it there, and been fine doing so.

But Zeke taking the high road like he did? OMG, that was the best thing I have ever seen on that show! I may or may not remember him as the first trans survivor, but I will for sure remember him as a an example of what it is to just be a fantastic human being, to rise above, and as a great example of how love and compassion wins.  

For me, in the end, the biggest takeaway was not Varner's despicable behavior, it was the quality of Zeke's character. It was just so lovely and so amazing to see in a world overflowing with hatred and anger and judgment.  

[Guest]

9 hours ago, JenMcSnark said:

I'm watching playoff hockey, so I'm getting Survivor during intermissions, but can someone explain his statement that he thought everyone already knew?  I mean, then why was Zeke deceitful if he had already confided in everyone?  I don't get it.  

This is just so heinous. 

I think he meant he thought everyone in Zeke's real life knew, so he wasn't outing him to anyone other than the castaways.  But that still doesn't make sense because he still was outing him to millions.

5 hours ago, niklj said:

Zeke and GLAAD worked with CBS on airing this episode.

I'm slightly glad to hear this.  But I hope he was given the option of that portion not airing. CBS easily could have filmed an alternate TC - it might not have told the "whole story" but it would have given Zeke the option to maintain his privacy in this aspect.

[neece26]

I've been watching this show from the beginning and between the goats and now this tribal council, I am not enjoying this season at all.   I  just tune in to watch people actually play the game of Survivor.

Zeke handled himself very well under the circumstances.  Hope Varner has a good support system around him.  Everyone makes mistakes but not everyone does it in front of millions of people.  Wish CBS would have kept this part of tribal private.  

[nooshie]

I absolutely agree that they could have edited it out of the TC. Instead of Probst having a straw poll on the spot, insist that everyone still does their written votes and have the producers push the cast to provide vague enough reasons that it doesn't make it clear what happened (or just show the names and not the reasons).

But that only works if you think an issue of this magnitude wouldn't ever be mentioned again, and wouldn't affect the relationships for the rest of the season (and would never be mentioned in future seasons of Survivor). Up until Varner's unforgivable question/comment, there was a crack in the relationships in the tribe. People who thought they were in with Zeke started doubting him (even if they were still planning to vote Varner out and trusted Zeke more than they trusted Varner, there was definitely at least some concern.), but an event like this has to be a bonding experience. Or it puts a target on Zeke because now he has a compelling story to tell at final tribal council. Either way, you couldn't edit this storyline out of the show. The only way to remove it would be to not air the season, and it's too late for that.

[luvbadtv]

44 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

I thought Zeke told Varner. We didn't see that but there was mention of conversations they'd had. My impression is that Zeke confided in Varner as someone he thought would understand, which makes it a real betrayal.

I wonder if Zeke told him or as another poster mentioned, Varner may have asked him based on being familiar with the process (for example, Zeke does have visible scars from surgery).  I had heard this rumor last season, so I was cringing when Varner was talking about his big secret, and it came off worse in reality than it did in my head. 

And Zeke forgot Survivor rule #1 - don't trust anyone!

Edited April 13, 2017 by luvbadtv

[preeya]

I have strong speculation that the "outing" of a transgender person will become a storyline for an episode of L&O SVU. I can see the transgender person committing suicide and the person who did the outing being charged with murder. Has the makings of an Olivia Benson special. 

[cooksdelight]

8 hours ago, 303420 said:

Why the fuck only soft drinks with the pizza? Why not beer? Providing pizza and not beer is bordering on evil.

They cut back on alcohol because people were getting drunk and doing/saying stupid shit.

7 hours ago, millennium said:

Jesus was right there at Tribal Council, when Zeke found it in his heart to forgive Varner.

Zeke is a better man than Varner will ever be.

Amen. 

5 hours ago, millennium said:

I think Ozzy's great but he appears to engage in zero game play.   Never see him bonding with other players or strategizing.   You would think by now he would realize he can't make it on challenge wins alone.

I agree. He think he can cruise by with the "I can help you win challenges." So far, that strategy isn't working for him.

[ferretrick]

  9 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

The Survivors compete for yet more sad food, followed by a wrenching, awkward Tribal Council.

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I really appreciated this recap because it did go into a full discussion of the episode (my favorite recapper refused to do a recap this week and just talked about the outing).  I kind of wish we had two episode threads this week, with one being reserved for the stuff that happened up to and including the immunity challenge.  I just have no interest whatever in discussing, or reading about, the "trans" stuff.  (I liked Zeke before this episode, FTR, and still like him.)

Anyway, the comment I wanted to make about this enjoyable and amusing recap is about the pizza.  I will fully admit to thinking it looked good (well, not the Hawaiian slices--an abomination I will never understand).  But you know how some people like "cold pizza" out of the fridge?  Others want it warm out of the oven.  Those are both okay, but my favorite is between the extremes: pizza that's been sitting out on the counter for 30-45 minutes or so: kinda congealed, but not yet hardened.  (Does that make me a monster?  LOL)

ETA: Do the rules allow Probst to just call it the way he did?  What if Varner had an idol?  I don't understand why he didn't still hold a vote.

Yes. It's happened a few times before-Brandon Hantz's freakout when he went on that rampage and dumped his tribe's food and trashed the camp is the example that springs to mind immediately. Jeff called for an immediate vote at the challenge, they didn't even go to TC.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

IF Varner did talk to someone in advance (and I tend to think he did, too) it would explain where the hell that highly suspicious word - METAMORPHOSIS - came from.   I can't recall a single instance where the puzzle word was not related to some aspect of the Survivor game or the local culture.   METAMORPHOSIS has no relation to either, and in hindsight sticks out like a big red flag.   The whole situation reeks of manipulation.

I didn't think the word "metamorphosis" seemed that out of place. This season is called Game CHANGERS. And metamorphosis means change. *shrug* 

 

46 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Sarah didn't seem to be intending to say anything at all until Probst asked her to explain what she was thinking while she sat there looking stunned and tearful.  Even after he asked her, she paused and obviously struggled to find words to explain her feelings, she hadn't had time to write a concise speech and her feelings are by definition going to be about her. I don't think her Midwestern upbringing is  something she should be blamed for, in spite of all the prejudice and hatred toward people born between the coasts.

I agree. I didn't have an issue with what Sarah said. Jeff was trying to get reactions and points of view from the others. This clearly had a profound impact on her, and I think Zeke seemed to appreciate what she was saying. 

[ferretrick]

I absolutely agree that they could have edited it out of the TC. Instead of Probst having a straw poll on the spot, insist that everyone still does their written votes and have the producers push the cast to provide vague enough reasons that it doesn't make it clear what happened (or just show the names and not the reasons).

But that only works if you think an issue of this magnitude wouldn't ever be mentioned again, and wouldn't affect the relationships for the rest of the season (and would never be mentioned in future seasons of Survivor). Up until Varner's unforgivable question/comment, there was a crack in the relationships in the tribe. People who thought they were in with Zeke started doubting him (even if they were still planning to vote Varner out and trusted Zeke more than they trusted Varner, there was definitely at least some concern.), but an event like this has to be a bonding experience. Or it puts a target on Zeke because now he has a compelling story to tell at final tribal council. Either way, you couldn't edit this storyline out of the show. The only way to remove it would be to not air the season, and it's too late for that.

I don't see how you could possibly keep this under wraps. I mean, you've got Debbie and Tai there, who can't keep their mouths shut about anything. At least this way, Zeke gets to own the story, and is prepared rather than having it leak out in some tabloid or online.

[Haleth]

Varner had all day to think about exposing Zeke.  Up until it all blew up on him he thought it was a good strategy.  It was only when he realized how much it backfired did he express regret for saying anything, so I can't feel too much sympathy for the backlash.  Had it worked (for some reason) he'd be patting himself on the back for his brilliant move.  He never once thought about how much it would hurt Zeke until the anger was redirected back to him.

[cooksdelight]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

ETA: Do the rules allow Probst to just call it the way he did?  What if Varner had an idol?  I don't understand why he didn't still hold a vote.

I think Probst realized it was time to cut the poison from the group.

I have transgender, gay & lesbian friends and I treasure them all. I had to sit through a sermon at church a couple of weeks ago by a guest/visiting pastor who spoke on the subject, and how they can all change if they want to, God can change them. My knees started bouncing and my fiance reached over to calm me, and said, "I know..." I was married at a young age to a man I found out was gay on my wedding night. He thought he could change by marrying a woman. All it did was leave us both miserable for 2 years. We parted friends and I never told my family why. That sermon disgusted me as much as this episode did, but for different reasons.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

That was a horrible thing to do.  Looking at Zeke's face reminded me of seeing someone who's had the wind knocked out of them.  That wide-eyed, stunned stare and feeling like you're living in an alternate universe for a brief span of time.  Just so fucking thoughtless and malevolent on Varner's part.  He did that with intent.  All his back pedaling about how he thought "everyone knew" is utter BS and a sad, cliched, desperate attempt to cover his ass. 

As for whether Zeke had to give his OK to CBS to air this; I doubt they needed his stamp of approval.  I'm pretty sure all the Survivors sign their lives away when they are chosen to play (literally- there are accidental death clauses in the contracts that absolve CBS/Mark Burnett/Survivor etc from being at fault in the event of injury, maiming or death). I believe since the players know they are being filmed 24/7, there are paragraphs in the contracts about how any and all recorded media is the sole property of CBS/Survivor. I'm happy to see CBS worked with GLADD & Zeke to make the airing of this episode as "palatable" as possible for Zeke and the LGBTQ community and their supporters.  However, I don't think they had to do that.  They are a for-profit entertainment company.  Whatever sells the show or makes it money is fair game in their world.  Thankfully, TPTB have shown some sensitivity and approached this with a modicum of good sense.

Legally, I'm sure CBS did not need Zeke's OK to air the outing.  But from a public relations perspective, I highly doubt CBS would do it, if he strongly objected.  If they did, United Airlines would be only the 2nd least popular company in America right now.

[NutMeg]

I'm now thinking that Jeff V. was kicked off the game rather than eliminated, which is why there was no vote. There must be at least one clause in the contract they all sign that he violated. And we didn't see that part because it was producers enforcing a rule and when that happened in the past (like I think it did with Brandon H. and that other lady), we don't see it.   

[Shades of Scarlet]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

IF Varner did talk to someone in advance (and I tend to think he did, too) it would explain where the hell that highly suspicious word - METAMORPHOSIS - came from.   I can't recall a single instance where the puzzle word was not related to some aspect of the Survivor game or the local culture.   METAMORPHOSIS has no relation to either, and in hindsight sticks out like a big red flag.   The whole situation reeks of manipulation.

And if that's the case, if Varner tipped off the producers in advance and they introduced that word METAMORPHOSIS into the challenge as a harbinger of what was to come, then they exploited Zeke every bit as maliciously as Varner did. 

This would mean that they churned out, in the space of the time between Varner (I've never been so happy to use a contestant's last name only before) telling a producer and the challenge, the lettered buoys and poles of the proper height.  It also almost certainly assumes that CBS would trust Varner to keep quiet about CBS' role in not only failing to stop him from doing it, but in redesigning the immunity challenge around it. 

While not impossible, I find this unlikely in the extreme.  I respect your views, but at a certain point I think it's worthwhile to stop believing that the show is rigged.  We might as well also believe that Hali (love her) was given the clue, or that any given challenge was manipulated this or in any other season, and that everyone involved has been completely silent about it.  

[Boilergal]

10 hours ago, North of Eden said:

If I can be honest I actually feel some sympathy for Varner. If I may speak for all eight billion of us on the planet....is there really anyone of us who once in their life haven't said something so totally untoward you would give anything to take it back? For Varner though he did it on TV magnifying it beyond all measure.

Who hasn't put their foot in their mouth at some point?!  - but what Varner did was not that, as a gay man he knew exactly what he was doing, outing someone can have serious consequences in their life - losing jobs, losing friends, losing family and extreme cases losing life.    

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Varner had all day to think about exposing Zeke.  Up until it all blew up on him he thought it was a good strategy.  It was only when he realized how much it backfired did he express regret for saying anything, so I can't feel too much sympathy for the backlash.  Had it worked (for some reason) he'd be patting himself on the back for his brilliant move.  He never once thought about how much it would hurt Zeke until the anger was redirected back to him.

While, the editors often make it seem like failed pitches are working, it did seem like Varner might have had a shot with the initial attack on Zeke, where he accused him of secretly working with Ozzy and telling him that the girls were going to make him feel comfortable, but vote him out (which he basically did do).   I would love to hear how the vote would have gone, if Varner hadn't gone full scumbucket and outed Zeke.  Actually, even if the tribe members were still going to vote out Varner, I'd like them to say they would have voted out Ozzy, just so Varner can feel regret for it the rest of his life.  

[vibeology]

I've been a very casual Survivor viewer the last few years. I watched enough of Zeke's first season to have a sense of him and Varner is familiar to me too. I read online that Zeke was trans but it became obvious to me though watching the show that he wasn't sharing that last year. I hadn't watched more than a few minutes of this season, but when twitter went nuts last night, I watched the full tribal council online.

Wow. That was shocking and wrong. Fuck Jeff Varner and everything he implied when he giddily announced Zeke's "deceit" to the entire tribe. Just fuck him. I don't care if he cried or feels bad about it now. Probst was right, you can't unring a bell. When Varner tried to justifying by saying he was "fighting for his life" I honestly laughed. How fucking ludicrous! Actual trans men and women can face real life violence but please go on about how a reality show is "fighting for [your] life." Just fuck him. I know I'm just repeating what others here have said, but that entire event was so shocking that I still haven't found it in myself to say anything else just yet. I used to watch Survivor like it was life and have keep myself somewhat dialed in and in 34 seasons this is the first time any part of this show has made me cry.

Zeke wrote a very thoughtful article for the Hollywood Reporter and I suggest reading it if you can.

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

I'm now thinking that Jeff V. was kicked off the game rather than eliminated, which is why there was no vote. There must be at least one clause in the contract they all sign that he violated. And we didn't see that part because it was producers enforcing a rule and when that happened in the past (like I think it did with Brandon H. and that other lady), we don't see it.   

I think they just decided to dispense with the formality of the vote, and end the ugly chapter.  If, for whatever reason, they thought someone else might be voted out, I think they would have gone ahead with the vote, and if Varner survived it, he would have stayed in the game.

I suspect they might have done an informal voice vote, which made it clear everyone was voting for Varner.  

[henripootel]

2 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

ETA: Do the rules allow Probst to just call it the way he did?  What if Varner had an idol?  I don't understand why he didn't still hold a vote.

My guess: they flat-out dismissed Varner for cause and Jeff gussied this up with his 'we all know who's going home tonight, right, including Varner'. I'm pretty sure that the rules officially allow Probst (and production) to do whatever the hell they want but there is the potential for contestants to sue, contracts or not, so they took steps hey made it clear that this wasn't a normal situation where normal rules apply.   Varner agreed to his being eliminated from the game (I'll bet in more explicit terms, but they edited that part a little) and that was that.

If this is correct, it brings up ever more to me that production is complicit in this whole thing.  If Zeke and GLAAD got input on how to mitigate the damage from this incident then something good might come from this sorry mess but I'm reminded again that production kicked off this sorry mess.  When they didn't have to and stood to benefit from it (via ratings).  That makes them complicit, and despicable, but hey 'showbiz'.  ETA: I see Nutmeg beat me here, but I agree.

6 hours ago, princelina said:

I'm not snarking or arguing - just curious.  When has this (bolded) happened in the past?

I was thinking about Survivor: Nicaragua.  This is based on spoilers that hit the net, but that whole season was thoroughly and accurately spoiled online, right down to boot order and (IIRC) winner too, which is pretty amazing.  The story is that during FTC, Jane flat-out accused Sash of trying to buy her vote, offering to pay her mortgage out of his million if he won.  This is a very big no-no and explicitly against the rules, so Jeff apparently told them to turn off the cameras, the producers huddled for a while to figure out how to handle it.  In the end they decided to simply ignore it, edited out any mention of it, and reminded the contestants of their extensive NDAs.  Sash lost anyway so maybe it was moot, but if it happened this way, it's what they could have easily done to protect Zeke's privacy in this matter.  Production clearly had no interest in doing so, or if you prefer, far more interest in airing something that, as Kimberstormer pointed out above, isn't Survivor.  Not their finest hour.

Edited April 13, 2017 by henripootel

[Drogo]

2 hours ago, mojoween said:

Andrea's reaction was immediate, that we saw, and I noticed at the time that it struck me just how quickly she began sobbing.  It was an interesting reaction.

And then by the end of it I was crying too.

Bold mine-

This was the same reaction my Khaleesi had, and (at 10) she's the best human being I know.  Andrea's stock increased exponentially for me in this moment. 

 

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

This may have been one of my least favorite episodes ever. So depressing. Not only for what happened to Zeke, but because of how thoroughly disappointed I was in Jeff Varner.

Co-sign, though I did enjoy the episode until Varner became "garbage." I spent the better part of pre-bedtime talking to Khaleesi about it, and it seems strange to share her funny pre-TC commentary now, and I wasn't sure that I should share her TC/post-TC commentary since it was so upsetting to her.  Still, she said I could, and I know there are some folks here who get a kick out of her comments (in bold.) 

 

Doesn't Debbie realize that other people are going to get to see Exile, and that they're probably going to talk about it? 

Varner says he would have voted for Sandra if they'd told him: Didn't exactly need your vote, but thanks for the heads up. 

Zeke wants to work with Varner:  I guess Zeke doesn't remember that his whole plan was to keep big targets around, since Cochran has talked to the camera more than Varner has this season.

Those pizzas look like the ones that you forgot to wrap in tin foil the night before.

I like that Ozzy knows that losing Reward is good for him because the tribe needs him more then, but he still does everything he can to win the reward for them.

Varner plots against Ozzy:  Varner, no!  You're the bottom person, you just let somebody else come up with the ideas then you say "I'm in."

Other players are onboard with Ozzy:  I guess that pizza stunk.

Immunity challenge vocabulary test:  Yeah, that "O" is going to look awesome in Shipmaster. 

 

She was really upset about TC.... really upset.  There was ice cream.  There were sprinkles.  Clearly I didn't action-note her comments, but to paraphrase-

Zeke was a really good friend to him.  He didn't have to be so honest on the beach but he did it anyway. 

Jeff felt like Zeke was choosing Ozzy over him, but really Zeke was just choosing Staying In The Game over Getting Voted Out. 

He basically threw a temper tantrum and decided to get back at Zeke.

This is like if a boy pulled my dress up so other people can see my underwear.  Of course everybody knows you wear underwear, but it's nobody's business what kind of underwear I'm wearing, and worst of all someone else took away my rights to keep my underwear private.  

 

[nooshie]

10 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I would love to hear how the vote would have gone, if Varner hadn't gone full scumbucket and outed Zeke. 

Me too. Up until the moment Varner asked *that* question, I wondered if we might be in for an Ozzy oust, or at the very least a close vote. I know there's no way to get an honest response to the "who *would* you have voted for" question now, but it really did seem like there was some doubt there. That's what I don't get about the whole thing - if the question was Varner v. Zeke then it still would have been an awful thing to do, but you could reason that in a desperate moment Varner made a dumb decision while trying to discredit the person he was up against. But using Zeke's "dishonesty" about something totally unrelated to the game as an argument to vote out Ozzy? There was no way that was ever going to work, no matter how hungry or tired you are. 

[Bryce Lynch]

I'm sure those pizzas tasted good to the food deprived castaways.  But, to me, they looked like, as Kevin Malone would put it, "hot circles of garbage".  I'm not sure, but I think the boxes had "Pizza By Alfredo" on them. :)

[laurakaye]

11 hours ago, ptuscadero said:

Well, in other news, I see the Real Eyebrows have finally made an appearance.

Thanks for the much needed LOLZ.  I am still very gutted from what I watched last night and seriously, those eyebrows need to be voted off ASAP.  They are rapidly approaching the "fuzzy caterpillar" stage.

 

11 hours ago, Stephres said:

My daughter kept saying, "he is majestic!" It was quite the comparison watching him gracefully dive in the water and the Culpepper plop off the raft.

Another belly laugh.  I have to wonder if the editors do this on purpose to see if we're paying attention.  Ozzy in the water is pure poetry in motion.  Culpepper is...not.

 

10 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I wonder why Ozzy said nothing throughout that whole TC.

I noticed that too, but Ozzy has always been a pretty quiet player.  It doesn't seem to be in his nature to "speechify."  I also think he was gobsmacked, like all the others.  I saw that he had tears in his eyes towards the end of TC.  There are times when the best thing to say is nothing at all.

 

10 hours ago, millennium said:

Now and forevermore Zeke will be the "trans Survivor" he never wanted to be, and not just the young man he saw himself as.  Jeff Varner robbed him of his very identity on national television.

I had no idea that was coming.  When Varner did that I felt like I'd been kicked in the stomach.

I am in no way arguing the part I bolded, just offering a different view...Zeke did say something about, "if it helps one person," didn't he?  Not that he ever in a million years wanted Jeff Freaking Varner to out him on national television, but for Zeke to be that stunned, and yet be able to pull something positive out of that trainwreck of a TC...that's what I will remember about him.  That and his incredible poise and grace towards Varner.  I was honestly floored watching Zeke's face.  Every time the camera panned to a close-up of Zeke, I expected him to break down.  But he didn't.  And that is amazing.  This is also the very first time I have cried at a TC, and I have seen every single one.

Edited April 13, 2017 by laurakaye

[Machiabelly]

I have a bit of respect for CBS in not teasing or hyping this TC at all. I do think they dropped the ball not running some form of PSA but they are bringing him on the Talk...so that's good.

[JudyObscure]

The discussion here about production's control of the final edit, like buttons, twitter hate storms, etc. has me wondering just what's going on in Survivor's board room right now.  Are they jumping for joy over the buzz it's caused?  Are they expecting to break their own ratings record next week?  Because this really goes beyond what they chose to air last night.   When Survivor chose to cast Zeke, were the hoping something like this would happen?  Considering that all of Zeke's real life friends and acquaintances know, it's sort of a miracle that, during his first season, one of them didn't show up on a major message board saying, "Well you know Zeke is trans as well as gay don't you?"  Even Zeke himself seems rather naïve to think he could go on reality TV and not have it come up, when we've all seen everyone's DUI history and mug shots and heard from ex-wives and high school friends. I'm feeling sort played by everyone now.