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S05.E02: Kaniel Outis


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Episode Synopsis:

As Lincoln and C-Note search for the “Sheik of Light,” Michael and his cellmate, Whip, attempt an escape from Ogygia. Meanwhile, Sara’s investigation into Michael’s reappearance leads her to the state department and an uneasy reunion with Paul Kellerman.

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So we're supposed to believe that Michael murdered the head of the CIA four years ago but no one knew about it? This wouldn't have made the news, or Kellerman wouldn't have contacted Lincoln or Sara to see if they knew about it? Hmm... ok. Love it!

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We got to see Michael for more than two minutes this week. The prison dialogue was a bit hard to hear, but I like how he got the gum to start a fire to fake a fever to get the pain pills to bribe the inmate with the phone to deliver origami to his kid...this show makes me pay attention lol.

I loved Sara's reaction to the video. When Jacob's face popped up I may have said "Ewww. Hit ignore" out loud. 

The Kellerman scenes did not disappoint. Was he subtly telling Sara her water was being poisoned? His comment was funny but odd.

The Lincoln scenes were the weakest for me. Felt like filler and the time could have been better spent elsewhere. 

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KELLERMAN!! Haha, when he referred to his past with Sara did anyone else want her to be all, "Yeah, there was that time you water boarded me...Good times." 

I'm so happy that the escape starts next week, presumably. I need a Michael/Linc/CNote reunion stat. And please let Sucre join soon!

I'm shocked Sara would send Mike to school. Fuck that. What is she thinking? But awwww, Michael is clearly keeping tabs if he knew where to have the "pizza" delivered. Now heed his advice, Sara! 

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1 minute ago, Squirrely said:

KELLERMAN!! Haha, when he referred to his past with Sara did anyone else want her to be all, "Yeah, there was that time you water boarded me...Good times." 

Sara's bemused chuckle at Kellerman referring to their past as "checkered" was all kinds of awesome. 

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I wonder who the pizza man was?  Tbag?  Don't trust Ness.  He was trying to vilify Michael and when he mentioned the government men visiting him (in the past), I became even more suspicious.

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No T-bag tonight or Sucre. I agree about the Lincoln filler scenes. BTW, where is Linc getting all this cash? Last week he was running for his life because he owed some scumbag money that he didn't have. What was up with Kellerman and the water bottle? Does that go back to S1 when the VP's bottle of water was supposed to be poisoned?  I like the Michael stuff, but the prison reminds me too much of Sona. 

Edited by juliet73
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18 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

BTW, where is Linc getting all this cash? Last week he was running for his life because he owed some scumbag money that he didn't have.

Came here to say exactly this^. Oh, Prison Break.

Michael scheming was one of the best parts of the show for me, so I liked seeing more of that in this episode.

Um, can anyone really erase Michael's paper trail?? He was the subject of a VERY public international manhunt. Oh, Prison Break.

But I'm with Sara, they framed Linc with footage too, sooooo.....

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New poster, I loved PB back then,my very favorite show, and love it that it came back.  Happy to see Micheal back in form.  What was that stuff about Freddie Mercury and his ashes?  I could hardly hear much what they were talking about,  especially the girl,  I loose their names,  she was talking so quiet.  So the break out starts next week, Micheal has some new friends inside, I hope his old friends arent forgotten.  Need more TBag, my favorite villain. 

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How on earth did Linc and C-Note manage to hide in the backseat? And isn't it convenient that the guy was speaking english with Sheba, although she speaks arabic with everyone else. It's like the dude knew there were americans somewhere near.

Why the fuck would Sara put Mike to school? He just went through a home invasion and his stepdad got shot and hospitalized. Sure this show has never made much sense but that still stuck out as incredibly dumb.

For a 9 episode series, there sure is a lot of filler. And oh my god that clunky exposition dialogue throughout.

But nonetheless, I will keep watching and waiting for it to get better.

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Anyone know who the actor is that played the Korean prisoner having withdrawal? Couldn't find him on imdb. 

Kaniel Outis? I thought it was a sketchy name when I heard it last week. Now that I see how it's spelled it has to be a code or anagram or something. 

Why didn't the pills dissolve in Michael's mouth? Oh Prison Break, as loopy as ever. 

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59 minutes ago, solea said:

Anyone know who the actor is that played the Korean prisoner having withdrawal? Couldn't find him on imdb. 

Kaniel Outis? I thought it was a sketchy name when I heard it last week. Now that I see how it's spelled it has to be a code or anagram or something. 

Why didn't the pills dissolve in Michael's mouth? Oh Prison Break, as loopy as ever. 

My thoughts, too, when the pills didn’t dissolve in Michael’s mouth.  And, who would want to gnaw on pills that were in someone else’s mouth for who knows how long.

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2 hours ago, solea said:

Anyone know who the actor is that played the Korean prisoner having withdrawal? Couldn't find him on imdb.

Rick Yune. He's been atleast in one of Pierce Brosnan's 007 and in Olympus Has Fallen.

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25 minutes ago, alvajon said:

And, who would want to gnaw on pills that were in someone else’s mouth for who knows how long.

An addict going through withdrawal.
 

4 hours ago, juliet73 said:

BTW, where is Linc getting all this cash? Last week he was running for his life because he owed some scumbag money that he didn't have.

Maybe he hadn't spent the money yet. Or not all of it, and he ended up repurposing it (from whatever he borrowed it for), to use in Yemen. We don't know anything about why he borrowed it, and avoiding repaying doesn't mean he didn't still have the money. Maybe he was going to invest in something (or gamble) to increase it, and it hadn't played out yet. Who knows. (The reason he borrowed it could be anything.)

-----------------

It's a given that there are going to be lots of conveniences in this show -- it's a fun adventure, and hand-waving goes with the territory. I was just so happy to have Michael Scofield back on my screen. Love all the guys, but Michael is it. Well, and him and Linc together. Looking forward to that.

One thing that bugged beyond usual hand-waving: Sara blabbing to apparently everyone she saw that Michael is alive and might be a terrorist/murderer/whatever. How stupid is she? (Even if she only said to the other mom that Michael is alive, it's still stupid. He had a reason for faking his death, he's going by another name, and casual blabbing is stupid.)

One thing that stood out: Whip saying that it would be so much easier if it were just him and Michael escaping "like it was in all the other ones."  So... Michael's an operative who gets into prisons with a cover story, makes contact with a particular prisoner, and breaks out with said prisoner for... whatever government group has hired him?  In that light, Michael could be in on the "setup" with the photos of him shooting the CIA Deputy Chief - it could be part of the cover story. Pretty convenient for it to occur right where a hunter has a camera. That one line about having broken out of multiple other places made it seem obvious, and I'm surprised they said it so early. I could be completely wrong, of course.

As for Kellerman, he was very cagey in his wording about Michael/Kaniel's identity, and even though he said that he doesn't know what's going on, he's got some kind of angle. No way he's being completely open with Sara. He's using her or wants to.

Side note: For those having trouble hearing the dialog - try turning on closed captions. They're not always perfect, but they can help a lot with sound issues.

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I'm going to fan walk that there was a lot of money hidden in the jacket underneath the label :)

I'm also giddily happy that this was filmed in Morocco, that's where I went to high school, yeeee... (well, not on that set, obviously)

Lastly, the actress playing the Yemeni woman (sorry I still don't know her name) is one of the main characters of Imposters. And now I'm thinking she's more chameleon than human. 

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5 hours ago, solea said:

Anyone know who the actor is that played the Korean prisoner having withdrawal? Couldn't find him on imdb. 

Kaniel Outis? I thought it was a sketchy name when I heard it last week. Now that I see how it's spelled it has to be a code or anagram or something. 

Why didn't the pills dissolve in Michael's mouth? Oh Prison Break, as loopy as ever. 

Looks like Rick Yune from the Fast and Furious movie, the first one. 

So glad Kellerman is back! He is the only reason I watched Private Practice and Girlfriends Guide to Divorce. I might have squee'd when he came on screen. 

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1 hour ago, mccartygirl said:

So glad Kellerman is back!

I agree! He and T-Bag are my favorite bad guys. I wish Bellick would have lived, but kind of like how his character changed once he had a purpose in life/"friends" and then died a hero because of his selfless act allowing the others to make it.

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Regarding Lincoln and the money - I just figured he has money, but didn't want to give it to the "bad guys."  Or Sara has given him some money.  Or a combo of both.  Like most of this show, it's not really a detail they want us to dwell on.  Pretty soon, he'll have his passport back and a private jet... ;-)

I also second the recommendation to turn on the closed captioning.  I watch all TV shows and most movies with it on, and have for decades.  It's annoying for sporting events or something live, but otherwise, it's very helpful.

9 hours ago, dirtydi said:

I wonder who the pizza man was?  Tbag?  Don't trust Ness.  He was trying to vilify Michael and when he mentioned the government men visiting him (in the past), I became even more suspicious.

Sucre?  Michael could have taught him origami?  I don't know, but to be Michael's handwriting, like already mentioned, is also a stretch of the imagination.

Ness is Sara's new husband?  Oh, he's totally in on it.  I think he's the one being the gamer and manipulating her, not Michael.  His presence is just way too convenient.

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  • The CIA guy is obviously still alive...
  • Kaniel has evidently promised to break out everyone... who will he inevitably betray?
  • ISIS Jeep guy is an Imperial Storm Trooper - hits one tailight after 5 minutes of shooting
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2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I don't know, but to be Michael's handwriting, like already mentioned, is also a stretch of the imagination.

Since it had Michael's handwriting on it, I just assumed that Michael made it and gave it to the delivery guy a while ago. Which means Michael has been planning whatever it is he's doing for quite some time. I'm just wondering why Michael needed a credit card if he wasn't really ordering pizza, and only just contacting someone to deliver the origami flower.

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I highly doubt Michael killed anyone. Thats the whole point here. The show tries to make people believe that Michael has turned dark and it uses characters to sell this idea. For example Jacob talking to Sara is basically the show talking to the viewers. Sara is wondering if Michael is indeed a killer and if he let go of his family after all,in a way that he had bigger plans and he decided to move on. That is supposed to make the viewers question whether or not Michael has been the same man we thought we knew years ago. 

Obviously he is but it would be interesting to explore the risks he took all these years by teaming up with dark and awful people in order to earn their trust and eventually use them for his plan,which is for him to go back to his family without being afraid that someone is gonna hurt them because of his actions. 

I liked this episode more and thats probably because we got to see more of Michael. Loved the last scene. 

Edited by theOAfc
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2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Ness is Sara's new husband?  Oh, he's totally in on it.  I think he's the one being the gamer and manipulating her, not Michael.  His presence is just way too convenient.

I snooze through scenes with Sara's husband, so I didn't really hear/process his game theory speech, but seeing it in the recap -- yeah, he's totally the gamer.

Kellerman had me cynically laughing at his attempt to convince Sara that "all the evidence" points to Michael being a killer. These people should not believe any "evidence" of anything anywhere after what they've been through.

 

Also, from the recap:

Quote

Sucre is a sacred and integral part of the O.G. Prison Break crew, and if Michael tries this Sucre Substitute on us all, the only appropriate response is to scream, "You're not my real dad!" and then run to our room and slam the door.

    ^^^ THIS x 10000.

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6 hours ago, justmehere said:

One thing that stood out: Whip saying that it would be so much easier if it were just him and Michael escaping "like it was in all the other ones."  So... Michael's an operative who gets into prisons with a cover story, makes contact with a particular prisoner, and breaks out with said prisoner for... whatever government group has hired him?  In that light, Michael could be in on the "setup" with the photos of him shooting the CIA Deputy Chief - it could be part of the cover story. Pretty convenient for it to occur right where a hunter has a camera. That one line about having broken out of multiple other places made it seem obvious, and I'm surprised they said it so early. I could be completely wrong, of course.

This may be one part where I missed the dialogue (even with the closed captioning), but I thought Whip meant just crawling through the ceiling.  They obviously have been on numerous recon missions, and Whip was saying that it should just be the two of them escaping too, like all their recon missions have been.  In other words, when they actually escape, Whip doesn't think all the other people should come too.

Obviously, I could also be very wrong.  That's why we'll watch to the end! :-)

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Because my tv is cr*p, what did it say inside the pizza red tulip? I hope when the boys do the escape for real, they shut up when crawling through the overheads. Like people below can't hear them? Of course, because I love PB, I'm hand-waving everything. But I too wonder what was up with the water-bottle-poison talk. I did love me some Kellerman/Sara scenes though. Good times! But yeah, Sara shut up about Michael being alive and all.

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19 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Because my tv is cr*p, what did it say inside the pizza red tulip? 

It said "A storm is coming" and then something like "keep everyone safe."  

What got me was that Sara compared Michael to a storm in last week's episode when talking to Mike Jr., but how did Michael know that?!  Coincidence?  Me thinks not...

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7 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

It said "A storm is coming" and then something like "keep everyone safe."  

What got me was that Sara compared Michael to a storm in last week's episode when talking to Mike Jr., but how did Michael know that?!  Coincidence?  Me thinks not...

Okay, this is someone who's never watched Prison Break before. I decided to watch this new series because I have fallen in love with Wentworth Miller and Dominic Purcell from The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow. So trust me, I have no trouble handwaving anything away because I have to do it with those shows all the time.

Except--how could Michael know what Sara said? I agree, it can't possibly be a coincidence, but I just can't wrap my head around the idea of how Michael could "hear" her from so far away. I'll be curious to see what happens.

I also have to say, I am absolutely loving Wentworth Miller as Michael. I adore and am rendered weak in the knees by his natural speaking voice--those of you who watch the DC shows know how snarky and drawly his voice is there--and being able to listen to it here is like rolling around in a basket of clean laundry, just warm out of the dryer. Good God, that man is sexy.

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KELLERMAN! You lousy, fucktard of a Magnificent Bastard!

I absolutely loved all the prison scenes--took me right back to Season One Michael planning the escape to break Linc out! So much ❤️ and relief that I'm seeing and hearing MICHAEL and not the gnawing, chewing Snart!? Like I said in last week's thread-just proves what good actors both Wentworth and Dominic are that I can see the different characters and fell in love again with the Linc and Michael all over again!

But I do miss the pacing and getting to know the other inmates as Michael planned to break Linc out from the first season. But what can you do when you only have nine episodes as opposed to 22?

Jacob is TOTALLY a plant husband. The dialogue couldn't have been more obvious-I find it almost insulting that I can see through him so quickly, unless that was done deliberately.

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I think my favourite part was the guards beating Micheal/Kaniel for supporting terrorists and basically ruining things for Muslims around the world (even though I don't really like violence and had to shut my eyes when he was getting beaten).

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4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

KELLERMAN! You lousy, fucktard of a Magnificent Bastard!

I completely forgot the Magnificent Bastard name. Love it.

And didn't Carl kill Sara...after she had the baby in the zombie prison

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Kellerman!!  Glad they didn't wait too long for his return.  I have no idea if he is behind any of this or he really believes what he is spouting, but it was great watching him sleaze it up again.  His interactions with Sara was fun, but I really want them to find a way to have him cross paths with T-bag.  I don't think the screen would be able to survive all the slime that would be on there!

Obviously doubt Michael has gone dark, so this is either a massive set-up that he is trying to get out of or he is pulling the longest con to end all cons.  I guess it depends on this terrorist guy that he apparently is "close" to.  Either that guy is innocent as well, or Michael is working an angle on him.  Fun seeing Michael back to planning and plotting (and Wentworth Miller blue-steeling), although is new posse is definitely lacking the charms of O.G. Prison Break crew.  I remember the one what is serving twenty years for being gay, "Whip", who I'm already calling Not-Sucre, and Druggie Rick Yune, who has an obsession with Queen.  Maybe they'll grow on me, but since this is only going to be nine episodes, I'm not betting on it.

Lincoln and C-Note's stuff seemed to be mainly filler, although I guess it was a way to have Inbar Lavi's character get on board with them, now that she sees that they will fight ISIS.  She totally seemed to be giving Lincoln eyes at the end.  After all, who can resist that well-meaning lug?! (well, other then his ex who I remember had a pretty... er, bad end.)  Also think something is going to come out of her character's father, since he was played by the always awesome Faran Tahir!

Totally think Jacob/Sara's new husband is up to something.

How did those pills not dissolve in Michael's mouth?!

I've mainly gotten use to Sarah Wayne Callies as Sara again, but when she lost little Mikey, I was totally thinking "Sheesh, Lori!"  She seems to have a habit of playing characters whose children keep running off!

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28 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

How did those pills not dissolve in Michael's mouth?!

Maybe he actually didn't put them in his mouth? I haven't re-watched, though.

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Of all the unrealistic things on this show, the pills not dissolving is hardly the most egregious to nitpick. Maybe they were slow-release pills and/or had a special coating. Maybe they *did* dissolve a bit, just not fully.

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12 hours ago, kirinan said:

Okay, this is someone who's never watched Prison Break before. I decided to watch this new series because I have fallen in love with Wentworth Miller and Dominic Purcell from The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow. So trust me, I have no trouble handwaving anything away because I have to do it with those shows all the time.

Except--how could Michael know what Sara said? I agree, it can't possibly be a coincidence, but I just can't wrap my head around the idea of how Michael could "hear" her from so far away. I'll be curious to see what happens.

I also have to say, I am absolutely loving Wentworth Miller as Michael. I adore and am rendered weak in the knees by his natural speaking voice--those of you who watch the DC shows know how snarky and drawly his voice is there--and being able to listen to it here is like rolling around in a basket of clean laundry, just warm out of the dryer. Good God, that man is sexy.

Ah, after reading that last paragraph, I fully welcome you into our droves. Wentworth, dude. That man is so hot. I yelled, "Noooo, not his face!" when he took a beating. Clearly, the writers don't know  that they need to preserve the eye candy for our viewing pleasure.

Somehow, I assumed Michael had the pills in like a shred of plastic in his mouth? Because I just assumed he found a shred of plastic somewhere, because he's Michael, and I didn't even have to see it to imagine its existence. Ideal viewer, right here.

And I laughed when Linc basically decided to take on an ISIL contigent singlehandedly to save the Sheik of Lights' daughter and a few bonus girls. Also, Sheik of Light? Not one of Michael's brightest codes, but he was trying to communicate it to Linc, so...

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9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I've mainly gotten use to Sarah Wayne Callies as Sara again, but when she lost little Mikey, I was totally thinking "Sheesh, Lori!"  She seems to have a habit of playing characters whose children keep running off!

Its just that almost every action show that has little kids uses them for this thing. They go missing/kidnapped or almost go missing for their parents to get worried. Sarah plays the mom role in almost all her recent shows. 

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17 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

KELLERMAN! You lousy, fucktard of a Magnificent Bastard!

I absolutely loved all the prison scenes--took me right back to Season One Michael planning the escape to break Linc out! So much ❤️ and relief that I'm seeing and hearing MICHAEL and not the gnawing, chewing Snart!? Like I said in last week's thread-just proves what good actors both Wentworth and Dominic are that I can see the different characters and fell in love again with the Linc and Michael all over again!

But I do miss the pacing and getting to know the other inmates as Michael planned to break Linc out from the first season. But what can you do when you only have nine episodes as opposed to 22?

Jacob is TOTALLY a plant husband. The dialogue couldn't have been more obvious-I find it almost insulting that I can see through him so quickly, unless that was done deliberately.

THIS! I enjoyed Snart but Michael is it for me. Love him.

Can we have Sucre back please? Maybe when Sara goes to Yemen (we have to think at one point she will) Sucre can go with her.

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5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

As for Sara?  The character is incredibly boring.  The Walking Dead levels of Lori boring.  I don't know if this is an actress issue or a character issue.  Granted, it has been along time since I have seen the original Prison Break.  Back during its first run,  I just don't remember Sara being that boring back then.

I never watched The Walking Dead or have seen SWC in anything else, but I think it's a character thing so far.  I agree that she wasn't as boring before, but for now, the writers aren't giving her much to do.  I'm hopeful that we'll see the old Sara once Michael's escape starts and we learn more about the truth.

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20 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:
On 4/13/2017 at 4:55 AM, icemiser69 said:

As for Sara?  The character is incredibly boring.  The Walking Dead levels of Lori boring.  I don't know if this is an actress issue or a character issue.  Granted, it has been along time since I have seen the original Prison Break.  Back during its first run,  I just don't remember Sara being that boring back then.

 

My take on this is that they want you to feel the years that have gone by without Michael. In real life, when someone dies, life goes on and the domesticity can seem boring to some. I feel they are making her "hum-drum" to show that her life has been just humming along and all of a sudden...

BAM! Michael is alive!

Now that she knows, she'll have to make everyone think everything is still status quo while investigating things in Yemen and all these dangerous things and intrigue. (That is if she quits telling everyone and the mailman she thinks he is alive!!!) I think they want you to feel the feeling of her heart racing at the thought of him being in her life again.

Edited by llewis823
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First of all, I spent the entire episode getting distracted by how hot Lincoln is (I've always been a Linc girl, though I wouldn't kick Michael out of bed, of course).

I must admit the prison stuff kind of bored me. It was pretty much what I was worried would happen. A whole bunch of new characters I don't care about, at the new prison. On the bright side, I do like all the actors (Rick Yune, especially, and the gay inmate. Whip annoys me.) but is that enough to hold my interest? I don't know.

The Lincoln storyline is fun, though. I really like Inbar Lavi, and C-Note was always one of my favorites. I like that it's more straight-forward, one simple goal (saving Michael) and no frills.

I actually think Sara's husband was right about Michael, and Michael is using that ISIL bigwig (? I think? I was half-watching) to secure an escape route once they're actually out of the prison and in ISIL territory. That said, Sara's husband seemed to be gaming something himself, too.

On 12/4/2017 at 0:05 PM, justmehere said:

One thing that stood out: Whip saying that it would be so much easier if it were just him and Michael escaping "like it was in all the other ones."  So... Michael's an operative who gets into prisons with a cover story, makes contact with a particular prisoner, and breaks out with said prisoner for... whatever government group has hired him?  In that light, Michael could be in on the "setup" with the photos of him shooting the CIA Deputy Chief - it could be part of the cover story. Pretty convenient for it to occur right where a hunter has a camera. That one line about having broken out of multiple other places made it seem obvious, and I'm surprised they said it so early. I could be completely wrong, of course.

I like that theory. Also, as I said, I was half-watching, so I totally missed that line, heh. That would be a great use of Michael's skills.

I LOVED seeing Kellerman again. That entire scene with the water bottle, it was so fun.

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I knew there was a reason I liked you, @Princess Lucky! We'll let everyone else have Michael and keep Linc for ourselves....

I too liked Rick Yune. I thought he had tremendous presence for someone with so few lines. This is the first season of Prison Break I've ever watched, so they're all new to me. I like C-Note too.

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I'm with all of you who are in love with Michael. I've watched Prison Break since the beginning and have been in love with Wentworth. PB came on when I was in high school and I feel like I'm back there again...lol

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2 hours ago, Suzy123 said:

I'm with all of you who are in love with Michael. I've watched Prison Break since the beginning and have been in love with Wentworth. PB came on when I was in high school and I feel like I'm back there again...lol

Me too, well, except for the high school thing.

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On 4/11/2017 at 8:55 PM, pfk505 said:

Does it bug anyone else that they abandoned the little audio tag as the show exits for commercial? No? Just me? Ok...

Loving the shit out of this so far!

I don't understand....?

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10 hours ago, Suzy123 said:

I'm with all of you who are in love with Michael. I've watched Prison Break since the beginning and have been in love with Wentworth. PB came on when I was in high school and I feel like I'm back there again...lol

Thats me. I feel like im 15 years old again. Prison Break was one of the first shows that i religiously watched. It kinda introduced me to the whole binge watching idea.

Its nice that the new season is so similar to the good old Prison Break ,so i wont even bother to criticize much the show now,im just glad its back and that the main characters will get a happy(i hope) closure.

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19 hours ago, StevedeMena said:
On 4/11/2017 at 11:55 PM, pfk505 said:

Does it bug anyone else that they abandoned the little audio tag as the show exits for commercial? No? Just me? Ok...

Loving the shit out of this so far!

I don't understand....?

In the original series, they'd play a 3(?)-second graphic at the commercial breaks. I don't know if you've watched any of the NCISes, but they do something similar.

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I don't understand why no one questioned the idea that Michael would murder someone, then leave his bloody clothes in a suitcase and take it to a foreign country.   Nobody is that stupid.  If he had bloody clothes he would have burned them, buried them, or thrown them in a river.  He certainly wouldn't have taken them with him out of the country.  Unless, of course, he wanted to get caught as part of a larger plan.  But I still don't think he actually committed the murder, I'm assuming the tape is phony.  

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