S34.E04: The Tables Have Turned

[seasick]

Hali, Andrea, Sierra--all part of the bikini bunches where one rarely differentiates themselves in any memorable way. (I still don't remember them and so far-- who cares)     Of course,  Parvati, Amanda, Natalie are rare exceptions in general.  (oh yeah the two that pulled their pants down for peanut butter or whatever ( jennifer? and ? )  

Give me an Aubri, Debbie, Shambo and a Sandra any day.   Shambo and Debbie would have been great together!  Oh well we can still pray for the season of crazies.  

[JusLaugh]

So...there I was, watching what could have been the best episode of Survivor, ever! ...the (whatever the Caleb stealing tribes name is...I call them the Dummies) tribe is out numbered, out manned, out gunned. OH NO! They are definitely going to need a miracle to pull this one out! Lo and behold they get their miracle in the form of their best puppet, the sneaky-snake Tai, finding a hidden immunity idol and revealing it to EVERYONE (which no one does without producer shenanigans).  The Dummies could save their asses and pull off the biggest move in Survivor history.

"Wow! this is going to be GREAT!" I told myself. They get to tribal council and it is very confusing and I can't follow what is being said, but it seems like the Dummy tribe figured out who the Sandra tribe is going to vote for and it's Culpepper! Yay! The Sandra tribe is in SO much trouble! they are going to lose the biggest threat in the game and their leader... I can't wait. What a smart move! And with all of that mouthing off she is doing and JT and Malcolm on board, she is gone for SURE! Greatest. Move. Ever. Or, Culpepper is gone, which is OK, too.

Then, they start voting. I grab my popcorn. I down some water. The suspense is killing me.....then, Tai hands the idol to....Sierra? Okayyyyyy....

Then, they vote out another one of my cuties, Malcolm(b). 

FU Survivor

Edited March 23, 2017 by JusLaugh

[cooksdelight]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

They don't show people looking for idols unless they find them. There are people looking for idols besides the ones who find them, but Production thinks it's boring to show unfruitful idol hunts, which actually makes any idol finds look shadier than they probably actually are

Thank you.... I get blue in the face typing that every season. LOL!!! Who wants to watch someone fruitlessly looking for an idol??

@wings707, I'll send you as many loaves of Pepperidge Farm thin bread as you need, just holler. :)

[Haleth]

23 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Not having that bread outside of the east coast makes me nuts!  There is no reason for that because groceries here sell their other bread. 

I used to live near a Pepperidge Farm bakery and when the wind was in the right direction.... heaven.

i didn't take Sierra's peck on the cheek as being mean spirited. Since they are friends I took it as "love ya, bud, sorry to see you go."

[green]

14 hours ago, meep.meep said:

That was something.  JT does it again.  I have to think that TPTB thought they'd get Sandra out.

 

I'm sure TPTB didn't want either Sandra or Malcolm to go.  They know they are both well known and popular players with the public.  I'm sure they would have loved seeing whats-her-name on the other tribe go instead.

13 hours ago, Superpole2000 said:

Two games is not a big enough sample size, ...

Results are not proof of skill. ...

Just taking these two points about Sandra's wins.  Two seasons are more than most Survivors ever play and few "returning" Survivors ever play more than two seasons. Two out of two therefore becomes a legend of epic proportions as a result since only one player has ever done it.  And results are proof of skills as in the only three skills in Survivor are Outwit, Outplay and Outlast.  And if you win you have done all three by definition.  Especially the Outlast bit, heh.

11 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

Why would another tribe be worried about Sandra right now? They still have to compete as a tribe against Sandra's tribe. I adore her, but she's not a challenge threat. They took out a stronger challenge threat  (which is all they really have to worry about now), and can either let Sandra's tribe deal with her or get her after merge. Taking Sandra out now instead of someone like Malcolm, JT or Michaela would have been a really dumb move by Mana. 

Very good point.  I agree totally.

8 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

...

Jeff should have told everyone "Sit DOWN" and not let them talk. I can only imagine what might have happened if he had.

Pretty much the same thing since both tribes in the end seemed to stick with their original plan.  The only difference would be we would have watched a boring, snooze-fest tribal council instead of one of the most exciting and fun and entertaining ones ever.

There is no rule that these people can't talk to one another.  They don't have to sit like lumps on a log and shut up like the jury is suppose to do.  They are suppose to talk and act and do tons of stuff there.  They sit there for hours in real life while production desperately tries to find 5 minutes of meaningful or funny comments and drama.  This tribal brought it without all the editing they usually need to do to a tribal.  None stop wall-to-wall action during nearly a 5 minute stretch.  it was awesome.  They hit a grand slam with this twist.  I'm sure they will use it again more in future seasons and I look forward to it.

3 hours ago, butterbody said:

I'm relatively new to survivor (only been watching a few seasons but IT IS EVERYTHING)

I envy you the hours of entertainment you will now enjoy as you start out watching Season 1 and work your way up through the seasons online or renting out seasons through some service.  And so less frustrating then waiting week to week too.

PS:  I agree with everyone about Tai finding the idol not being suspicious in the least.  It might be out of time sequence but it wasn't some "shenanigans" we get every time someone finds an idol.  They don't show the hours and hours (as we have heard from past players) of tons of players in a season looking for an idol to no avail.  There is no point to that.

Edited March 23, 2017 by green

[Rachel RSL]

3 hours ago, Giesela said:

She was calling all the shots, convinced everyone to follow her plan, said there was no idol,had the opportunities to whisper and conspire along with everyone, and got one of her tribe voted out. She wanted Sierra gone and she is still there.    That JT was not in her alliance is moot.  You still want number and challenge wins  SHE LOST that TC and got Malcom sent home because if she was as good as you say she is someone from the other team would have gone home.   She was the leader, it was her plan and she takes responsibility for the loss.

She wasn't calling all the shots though. They mentioned several times during TC that they had all sat down and discussed different possibilities and they all agreed on what to do.  As for Malcolm getting sent home, Sandra can't be blamed for that. That was all JT's doing when he got up, walked over to Culpepper and told him they were voting for Sierra. When Tai asked who he should give the idol to, he turned and looked at Culpepper who immediately pointed at Sierra. If not for JT's big mouth, Tai might have given that idol to Culpepper and Sierra would have been voted out instead of Malcolm. That was 100% JT's fault.

[ljenkins782]

Quote

What I DO know is that JT straight up told Brad they were planning to vote out Sierra. The question is why? Again, that TC was so hard to follow. Did JT really betray his new tribe by trying to help his old buddies? Or did he just make another colossally stupid move like he did on Heroes vs. Villains? I tend to lean towards the latter, but who freaking knows. Either way, it sucked for Malcolm and the Red tribe (sorry, they switch so often I barely bother to learn the names) played that very well for the perceived underdogs. 

I don't understand it either. The merge is likely still several TCs into the future, so he's going back to camp with the group he just fucked over. And since it doesn't seem like he or any of his current tribe knew there was an idol, what was the point of telling them the vote? 

Not that I necessarily want her to leave (though last week's goat episode soured me on her a bit), but this was a gift from the heavens opportunity to get rid of Sandra. If it's just her tribe voting, she could pull something off, but with another 5 people in the mix who are not currently on her tribe and know she's a big threat, why not? Just JT and Malcolm voting for her would have sent her packing and if things played out the same where Tai played his idol on the right target, she goes home even without their votes. 

Malcolm was really not a threat at this point in the game and has been pointed out repeatedly, he's lost before. Hell, he didn't even win the Sprint player of the season fan vote in his original season and that kind of thing is absolutely tailor made for a guy like him. 

Quote

Working with JT is death. He's the first player to play a perfect game... but his entire season was marked by playing with Stephen (who was playing whom) and in HvV it was clear as glass that JT had zero clue how to truly "play". (ie: giving Russell the idol, and basically blathering all the Heroes plans - basically torpedoing the entire Heroes tribe. (i mean they didn't help themselves, but JT didn't help). 

And he basically did it again - to the point Michalea and Varner knew specifically what happened. He wasn't subtle.

 The vote in Tocantins that really flipped the game was the Tyson vote, which is when JT inexplicably wanted to get rid of the tribe pariah, Sierra, who couldn't win a challenge to save her life and who had zero allies. Stephen had to talk him into booting Tyson while they had the change, since he was poised to go on a huge immunity run. 

The chaotic nature of his HvVs play seems to validate he needs a sounding board that will push back if his idea might have negative consequences...such as the idea of jumping out of his seat to blab to the other tribe.

That little clip at the end of Michaela remarking to Varner that JT set them up makes me hope those two team up. He's got a history of liking female players with attitude and her challenge strength plus his social strength could be a killer combination. 

Quote

I am also calling shenanagins on Tai who was all I need an idol I need an Idol, an Idol will save me all this desperation, the location was totally hinky and then he gives it up like he was handing someone a piece of coconut.  Then he had no idea of who to give it to?  Wow, Culpepper is both in total charge and playing very deep and Tai is only surface.

I was so hoping Tai was going to pull the same move he pulled in his season and hang onto the idol. I don't know why I can't stand Sierra, she's basically inoffensive, but she gets on my nerves. I'm especially sad to think that Natalie Anderson could have been there in her spot, she's an underrated winner, IMO.

As for that tribal, I'm just surprised to learn that they're allowed to get up and move freely about the cabin. Who knew? There are a couple of prior instances I can think of where seating arrangements made a difference in a vote (notably, last season with Hannah sitting next to Michelle, who convinced her to switch her vote mid tribal), so I always assumed that they had to stay seated during tribal. 

[piequinn35]

They thought of the possibility of HII play (Varner's comment when he voted and Sandra's comment if Hali was on their side she should have told them who has the idol) but they didn't know who has it, Sierra, maybe is the one they knew that won't play an idol (until Tai did it for her) and Sandra's reason that she is strong in challenges. And yes JT screwed them lol.

[KimberStormer]

30 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

Thank you.... I get blue in the face typing that every season. LOL!!! Who wants to watch someone fruitlessly looking for an idol??

The crazy thing to me is, they already did show someone fruitlessly looking for an idol, this very season!  They do it a lot!  This season was JT looking with everyone out on the raft....another one I remember is Fishbach wading in the mud in Cambodia (Tocantins boys look for idols, fail)...yet everyone always forgets this instantaneously, and says that whenever someone looks for an idol they find one, it must be a producer plant etc etc.

[Hera]

I was surprised that they didn't let the two tribes going to tribal council go back to the same beach before tribal council. If they had, there still would have been a lot of craziness, but without all the whispering, so it would be easier for viewers to follow. It would also mean that JT and Hali could have had a little more breathing space while they decided what to do. It's hard to negotiate a flip when the people you are considering flipping on are right there, listening to everything you say and I'm not surprised that both of them ended up voting with the tribes they're currently on.

Unless there's another tribal shake-up, I think JT's days are numbered. Despite voting with his current tribe, he nevertheless communicated to them how tight he and Brad are by jumping up and telling him that his tribe was targeting Sierra and then, when his tribemates suggested switching the target to Brad, he nixed the idea by saying that he just told Brad he was safe. When that happened, I was amazed that Sandra or Michaela didn't just say, "Who cares? Let's vote him out anyway," and dare JT to refuse to vote with the tribe he has to live with or to run back to Brad (yes, I know, easy for me to say). As it is, I don't see how anyone on that tribe can let him get to the next tribe shuffle or merge, now that they know where his allegiance lies.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Hera
adding words for clarity

[seasick]

10 minutes ago, green said:

envy you the hours of entertainment you will now enjoy as you start out watching Season 1 and work your way up through the seasons online or renting out seasons through some service.  And so less frustrating then waiting week to week too.

me toooooo!   Season One!!  The innocence.  I have to force myself to rewatch S1  only once every 2 years or so. 

And what a difference those earlier season were from today's shows . (I have about 25 seasons  I think) For one-- they played like a one-hour show.  Now--for some reason it's runs like a half-hour sit-com.  

[Bad Example]

5 hours ago, ghoulina said:

 

I never understand why teams are always certain that other teams don't have an Idol. "No, no way. They don't have an Idol". Based on what???? 

 

 

I generally think it's based on "Well, *I* don't have an idol and I'm so smart, so of course they don't" and sometimes it's "They don't have an idol because *I* have an idol and there's no way they're as smart as I am."  So yeah.  Based on nothing.

[blackwing]

I didn't fully follow what happened at TC, but it appeared that JT told Brad that they were voting for Sierra.  What was the point of that?  JT's tribe had already discussed idols and Queen Sandra declared that nobody over there had one.  Did JT suspect they did and tip Brad off so that Brad's tribe would vote out Sandra?  Is that what JT was thinking?  Because it clearly failed, it resulted in the loss of what appeared to be JT's biggest ally on his tribe.  JT voted for Sierra.  Presumably to show to his current tribe that he was loyal to them.  But why then would he have gone and seemingly consorted with the enemy Brad?  Doesn't make sense. 

I also don't follow why Brad's tribe wouldn't get rid of Sandra.

Jeff Varner is truly useless.  Why does he keep getting brought back?  Michaela, Zeke and Aubrey were really invisible last night.

16 hours ago, LanceM said:

I think there is a good possibility that Tai found that in a previous episode and they just used the footage of him finding tonight because it was more dramatic. But I could be wrong.

If this is the case, it must have been from the first few days, when Tai was original Nuku.  Because last episode the next round, Tai moved over to Mana, and that was period where Troyzan found the clue for the idol hidden at the immunity challenge.  My interpretation was simply that this idol Tai found was a new round of idols planted after the Troyzan round disappeared.

[vb68]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

17 hours ago, vb68 said:

I agree.  She's the goat you should be dragging to the end. As a former winner, I can't believe JT doesn't see that.  

I agree with all those who see this as playing with fire.  I think people would be amazed that they let Sandra get to the end, and they'd be attracted by the idea of making her the first three-time winner.

Perhaps, but I think Sandra had it right when she said the only way for any winner to win again was to team up and go to the end together. I think JT would have been much wiser to try to team up with her (if she's your ally, she's a great one) than to waste his energies trying to get rid of her.  

[Colorado David]

I get Sandra's bravado with herself, but ease it back girl....a little of that goes a long way, and it's just irritating if you go overboard.

Booo on the huddling, Jeff get that stuff under control - it becomes an elementary schoolyard if everyone's just running to each other and whispering.

[seasick]

42 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

hank you.... I get blue in the face typing that every season. LOL!!! Who wants to watch someone fruitlessly looking for an idol??

I get that, but how about a few honorable mentions?  I am left with the impression they (sandra et, al) were sitting around --comatose at camp -- thinking " idol-schmydol--pass the mango"  OR they know that if they are MEANT to find the idol...  it will appear...if you know what I mean....

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

Thank you.... I get blue in the face typing that every season. LOL!!! Who wants to watch someone fruitlessly looking for an idol??

@wings707, I'll send you as many loaves of Pepperidge Farm thin bread as you need, just holler. :)

I never once claimed that there are players in Survivor who don't spend hours fruitlessly looking for idols.

The original post of mine that was quoted was about my specific annoyance with the fact that as soon as somebody is shown finding an idol, there are always people who run to claim that it's "suspicious/fake/rigged/questionable". 

When Sandra says "No one on that tribe has the idol" I don't believe that she actually believes that to be the truth.  That's just something she tells the tribe to shut them up so they don't over-strategize.  It's simple. Sandra wants her tribe to do what she tells them.  She doesn't want her tribe to confuse her message with idols.  

I don't know why Sandra focused on Sierra but she seems to think that she shouldn't be targeting men this week.  She seems to think right now she should be targeting women.  Maybe she sees Sierra as her direct competition for winning the million.  Either that or she has some intel on Sierra that she's a threat for some reason.

Also, either I block out Sierra's eyebrows like censored bars, or what, I don't know, but what bothers me most about Sierra's face are her nose and her lips which look very plastic and unnatural to me.  That's what makes her hard to look at for me personally.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Giesela]

31 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

She wasn't calling all the shots though. They mentioned several times during TC that they had all sat down and discussed different possibilities and they all agreed on what to do.  As for Malcolm getting sent home, Sandra can't be blamed for that. 

In any group there is a leader who takes responsibility for the final plan.  There was all sorts of discussion, people had other ideas about who to vote out  - but Sandra - the undisputed Queen - rammed her plan or if you want to be generous - convinced her tribe to go with her idea.  Same with the what if there is an idol does that change anything - Sandra, there is no idol we don't need a plan for that.  It was pretty clear that as they were discussing scenarious Sandra was hammering away on them about what she wanted.  Basically Sandra got her way.  If she were better at strategy they would have had some back up plans, thought harder about the idol.  At the very least she might have been quicker on her feet with all the discussion going on and switched up the vote after JT talked to Culpepper.  But she wasn't quick enough and I think she was over confident and so they lost a person.  That is a fail.  She is the queen of that tribe so the fail goes to her.  I don't hate Sandra but if you want to be in charge then you are responsible.

[Ms Blue Jay]

9 minutes ago, vb68 said:

Perhaps, but I think Sandra had it right when she said the only way for any winner to win again was to team up and go to the end together. I think JT would have been much wiser to try to team up with her (if she's your ally, she's a great one) than to waste his energies trying to get rid of her.  

I found it really interesting that Sandra brought up the 'winners should protect other winners' strategy because it seemed pretty smart.  But then I found it even more fascinating that she turned on a dime and threw out that idea when she decided she didn't like or trust Tony; or maybe it was as simple as , you come after me/question me then you're out of here.  I don't know.  Sandra's a fascinating case study.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[TVbitch]

I just can't find anything very exciting about a season where the players know each other so well AND have so many outside relationships AND are so comfortable with Jeff that they casually get up and start having all kinds of conversations about the vote, like they are at a freaking cocktail party or something.

In the opening episode when they walked down very well made pathways to their perfect beach sites, I had a feeling this season was going to be too much Club Med and too little Survivor. 

[piequinn35]

I can't believe it that Sandra's tribe hasn't found the HII, maybe the show could show/point to us at the start of the season where the HIIs or clues are. 

[Giesela]

20 minutes ago, Bad Example said:

 

I generally think it's based on "Well, *I* don't have an idol and I'm so smart, so of course they don't" and sometimes it's "They don't have an idol because *I* have an idol and there's no way they're as smart as I am."  So yeah.  Based on nothing.

The last few seasons in every TC that they can manage it they split the vote JUST IN CASE someone has an idol.  I think it was weird that they (Sandra) didn't want to consider an idol.  Varner seemed concerned and so did Michaela.  I wonder if it was because of the new rules  Maybe they were unsure how to flush an idol with the new rules and a merged TC so they just said ...we will hope there isn't an idol, which isn't great game play

Edited March 23, 2017 by Giesela

[Ms Blue Jay]

43 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

I'm especially sad to think that Natalie Anderson could have been there in her spot, she's an underrated winner, IMO.

I was going to say that every female winner is underrated - even Sandra is underrated as you can clearly see here - but then I realized that every winner is underrated.  People really dislike Tony, for one (I love him).  So yeah, winning this game often doesn't prove anything to anyone here.  LOL.  In my opinion they're all underrated. Except for JT.  LOL (I'm kind of kidding). We'll see what box of goodies JT brings us this year.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[piequinn35]

I wish Tony was still there, the TC would be crazier hahaha.

[cooksdelight]

30 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

This season was JT looking with everyone out on the raft

Which was funny as hell, to me. That's entertainment. :D

Has Sandra done anything besides lay in the hammock and walk along the beach? That seems to be her day's activities, at least, as shown in this episode.

[Rachel RSL]

8 minutes ago, Giesela said:

but Sandra - the undisputed Queen - rammed her plan or if you want to be generous - convinced her tribe to go with her idea.

Unless I missed that scene, we saw no evidence of Sandra strong-arming anybody into doing anything. From what we've been shown, it sounds like this tribe sits down and discusses everything as a group and makes decisions as a group. Now, if you're saying that all the other people are idiots who can't think for themselves so they follow Sandra's lead well, that's on them. Although I don't think that's the case here at all.  Everybody agreed on what to do, nothing was rammed, and it isn't  Sandra's responsibility to change their plans at the last minute just because JT opened his big mouth. 

Quote

 Sandra, there is no idol we don't need a plan for that. 

Sandra never said that at all. In fact, it was the opposite. They said the tribe sat down and went through all the different scenarios on what would happen for each member on the other tribe if they had an idol.

[Jobiska]

My son speculated that maybe the idol clue, when found by the searcher, says something like "camera operator will hand you the clue now," and the operator hands one of two clues depending on whether the searcher found it before or after the challenge.  In other words, if Tai had found it before the challenge, he would have gotten a clue like Troyzan's and one would have been hidden at the challenge.  Anyway, who knows.  I was irritated that they did both a different "find" location and a different type of hiding place (more old school "put your hand in here and either find a clue or get stung by an insect"), rather than "bottle on the beach" or last season's "marked coconut or clam shell lying on the ground."  It wasn't tidy this way, and also leads to more shenanigans posts.  

[Brenogan]

Putting all Sandra hate aside.  Her actions at TC did not send Malcolm home, JT's did.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

That little clip at the end of Michaela remarking to Varner that JT set them up makes me hope those two team up. He's got a history of liking female players with attitude and her challenge strength plus his social strength could be a killer combination. 

I could really get behind that duo. I have a soft spot for Varner, and I think he may be able to calm Michaeala down, who could smoke this game if she kept her emotions in check. 

 

38 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I found it really interesting that Sandra brought up the 'winners should protect other winners' strategy because it seemed pretty smart.  But then I found it even more fascinating that she turned on a dime and threw out that idea when she decided she didn't like or trust Tony; or maybe it was as simple as , you come after me/question me then you're out of here.  I don't know.  Sandra's a fascinating case study.

Yea, I found Sandra's cessation of working with Tony to be more about his OTT reaction to seeing her talking to Troyzan at night. I know it's easy to get paranoid in this game, and Tony is the king of paranoid, but just because YOU have a plan doesn't mean other people won't try to talk to your alliance. He had no idea why they were out their talking. Troy could have approached her. She could have been feeling him out. She could have been BSing him, without causing suspicion by refusing to talk to him. Tony didn't even give it half a second before he totally flipped out on her. I'm not a Sandra fan, but I understand why she dropped him like a hot potato. 

[himela]

What I missed: Did Hali know about the idol?

[slowpoked]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I was going to say that every female winner is underrated - even Sandra is underrated as you can clearly see here - but then I realized that every winner is underrated.  People really dislike Tony, for one (I love him).  

I think you can dislike a person but not think of them as underrated. I see how Tony won, I see how he is the rightful winner over stupid Woo. He sure earned (and deserved) that win. I just don't like him, that's all. All that yapping is exhausting for me.

I always thought the most underrated winner (and I'm surely going to get dinged for this) was Natalie. Sure, her strategy is to just not be like Russell. But whoever said that that's not a valid strategy at all? There's no one correct way to win this game anyway. And it's Russell's fault that he was such an asshole, not Natalie's.

Edited March 23, 2017 by slowpoked

[Vyk]

3 minutes ago, himela said:

What I missed: Did Hali know about the idol?

Yes.  She was there when Tai told the tribe about it.

Well, I enjoyed this episode.  Yes, I liked Malcolm, but the Tribal Council was indeed one of the craziest ever.  It was something that really kept everyone on their toes, so I approve.

I just hope that it doesn't done every season.  Perhaps every few, and likely only with returnees, not newbies.

While I'm not a huge Sierra fan and still wish she hadn't come back, I don't think she was taunting Malcolm with the kiss.  I think she was trying to give him some comfort.  A pat or stroke of the shoulder might've been better, but I had no problem with the kiss.  And I give her some reluctant props for reading the room and realizing she was nuNuku's target well before J.T. confirmed it to Brad.  (She seemed to know it while Brad and Debbie kept trying to assure her that that wasn't the case.)

Speaking of J.T. . . . wow.  Colossally stupid move on his part.  Yes, Sandra is his main target.  But he really, desperately needed to chill out, let the Sierra vote ride, and not say a word.  Sierra would be gone, and he'd still have Malcolm around to help him get rid of our two-time winner.  Now he's more than likely public enemy number one.  He was already potentially that, but he just cemented it.  I'd already known that I'd wanted any of Stephen, Erinn, or Taj to win Tocantins.  He went and proved why in Heroes vs. Villains and pretty much vindicated my thoughts here in Game Changers.  If he goes sooner rather than later, it'll be his own damn fault, and I won't complain.

Sorry, Malcolm.  Your only mistake was allying so closely with a desperate double-dealer like J.T.

Nonetheless, it was a great episode for me.

[laurakaye]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Also, either I block out Sierra's eyebrows like censored bars, or what, I don't know, but what bothers me most about Sierra's face are her nose and her lips which look very plastic and unnatural to me.  That's what makes her hard to look at for me personally.

Malibu Barbie, circa 1980.  That's who Sierra reminds me of, especially now that her face has that weird plastic thing going on.

[sadiegirl]

21 minutes ago, himela said:

What I missed: Did Hali know about the idol?

 

11 minutes ago, Vyk said:

Yes.  She was there when Tai told the tribe about it.

 

Hali was not there when Tai told them about the idol.  Brad even said something like 'if one of us 4 gets votes, we need to use the idol'.  I don't think he would have said that if Hali was sitting with them.

[himela]

Then why did Hali not tell them there is an idol in her tribe? This way she could have voted with her tribe but also gain trust with her old tribe while Brad would go home.

Edit: So if she didn't know it makes more sense.

Edited March 23, 2017 by himela

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Survivor Goes From Blindfolds To Blindsides

At the immunity challenge, Jeff unveils yet another shocking twist...and a couple of totally unshocking comments about balls and holes.

[Ms Blue Jay]

26 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

I think you can dislike a person but not think of them as underrated. I see how Tony won, I see how he is the rightful winner over stupid Woo. He sure earned (and deserved) that win. I just don't like him, that's all. All that yapping is exhausting for me.

I always thought the most underrated winner (and I'm surely going to get dinged for this) was Natalie. Sure, her strategy is to just not be like Russell. But whoever said that that's not a valid strategy at all? There's no one correct way to win this game anyway. And it's Russell's fault that he was such an asshole, not Natalie's.

First paragraph: Fair enough!  I get it.

And I freely admit to being someone who underrates Natalie White.

[Nashville]

I for one don't blame Malcolm one bit for tears in his exit interview, because his torch got snuffed by a twist which went totally opposite to the heart and soul of Survivor:

• What is the player's mission in Survivor?  No mystery there - outwit, outplay, outlast.
• How does the player do this?  By building and supporting relationships with other players to carry them through to a certain point in the game, then dismantling those relationships in such a way as to still maintain their support at Final Tribal Council.

So - what part of ANY of that is present when people from ANOTHER Tribe - including players with whom you may NEVER have had ANY chance to do ANY relationship-building - get to vote on you and decide your fate?

So yeah, I'd be pissed too.

I repeat - POSSUM BALLS.

[Wandering Snark]

21 minutes ago, Nashville said:

So - what part of ANY of that is present when people from ANOTHER Tribe - including players with whom you may NEVER have had ANY chance to do ANY relationship-building - get to vote on you and decide your fate?

This happened to many a person at tribe swap and/or merge where you haven't gotten to know or have any "ins" with the new members of a tribe. Happens quite often actually that a game turn or twist "unfairly" targets one player. This situation is not unique or unprecedented. Everyone that is votes out was somehow 'screwed by the game' or they wouldn't have been voted out. Sometimes your number is just up deserved or not.

Also factored in at that point is you are forced to adapt to your new situation. He who hesitates is lost.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Wandering Snark

[dkb]

2 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

She wasn't calling all the shots though. They mentioned several times during TC that they had all sat down and discussed different possibilities and they all agreed on what to do.  As for Malcolm getting sent home, Sandra can't be blamed for that. That was all JT's doing when he got up, walked over to Culpepper and told him they were voting for Sierra. When Tai asked who he should give the idol to, he turned and looked at Culpepper who immediately pointed at Sierra. If not for JT's big mouth, Tai might have given that idol to Culpepper and Sierra would have been voted out instead of Malcolm. That was 100% JT's fault.

^^^^This times infinity. I feel like every week I'm defending Sandra, when I don't have a particular view on her either way, but I'm not seeing a bullying Sandra that others are. They seemed liked they came to a decision together because only Malcolm and JT were shown discussing anything different, she didn't strong arm them. I would assume they would show us if her tribe thought she was overbearing or bullying them into doing something that they didn't want.

3 hours ago, mishap said:

So, did Culpepper screw over JT?    Did he tell JT they were voting for Sandra?

I am a little baffled by what went down between those two.  Did JT tell him they were voting for Sierra, or that he was going to vote for Sandra?  Because it doesn't make any sense to me, for him to have told both of those things to Culpepper. 

JT screwed himself with his current tribe, by running over and whispering to Culpepper.   

I'm not sure where JT goes from here, except to get his torch snuffed. 

 

3 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Question, why did Sandra's tribe vote Sierra instead of Brad?

Same thinking as Deb's tribe to vote the strong-in-challenges player. (MalCOMB)

16 hours ago, GaT said:

I was caught completely off guard by the votes for Sierra & Malcolm. When Tai gave the HII to Sierra, I thought he lost his mind & should have given it to Brad. Then when Jeff was reading the votes & nothing came up for Sandra, I was surprised again, why didn't they vote Sandra off? She's more dangerous than Malcolm was.

2 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

They thought of the possibility of HII play (Varner's comment when he voted and Sandra's comment if Hali was on their side she should have told them who has the idol) but they didn't know who has it, Sierra, maybe is the one they knew that won't play an idol (until Tai did it for her) and Sandra's reason that she is strong in challenges. And yes JT screwed them lol.

I 100% believe they would played the idol for Brad if JT hadn't said anything.  Which would have been a win, they get rid of someone on the other team, the other team wastes an idol, and for JT's sake Brad is still there since he seems to be close with him. That would have been a good result for Nuku, and Malcolm and JT could work on getting Sandra out another time. 

 

1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

Unless I missed that scene, we saw no evidence of Sandra strong-arming anybody into doing anything. From what we've been shown, it sounds like this tribe sits down and discusses everything as a group and makes decisions as a group. Now, if you're saying that all the other people are idiots who can't think for themselves so they follow Sandra's lead well, that's on them. Although I don't think that's the case here at all.  Everybody agreed on what to do, nothing was rammed, and it isn't  Sandra's responsibility to change their plans at the last minute just because JT opened his big mouth. 

Sandra never said that at all. In fact, it was the opposite. They said the tribe sat down and went through all the different scenarios on what would happen for each member on the other tribe if they had an idol.

^^^ Also this. @Rachel RSL, we are sharing a brain in this situation, lol. I just highlighted the whole thing because its awesome. They discussed idols so they were aware it was a possibility, which goes with what I said above that Nuku assumed that Mana would think they were targeting Brad and Mana would give him the idol. Sierra does seem to be a good challenge person so it made sense why they would pick her if they can't vote out Brad. 

 

4 hours ago, Tryangle said:

JT sunk his own ship, he could have simply sat down and minded his business. Worst case scenario Sandra (or possibly, Malcolm) goes home and he hasn't burned any bridges with his current tribe.

 

1 hour ago, Brenogan said:

Putting all Sandra hate aside.  Her actions at TC did not send Malcolm home, JT's did.

If JT had not said anything to Brad about Sierra, Malcolm would still be there.

 

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

Yea, I found Sandra's cessation of working with Tony to be more about his OTT reaction to seeing her talking to Troyzan at night. I know it's easy to get paranoid in this game, and Tony is the king of paranoid, but just because YOU have a plan doesn't mean other people won't try to talk to your alliance. He had no idea why they were out their talking. Troy could have approached her. She could have been feeling him out. She could have been BSing him, without causing suspicion by refusing to talk to him. Tony didn't even give it half a second before he totally flipped out on her. I'm not a Sandra fan, but I understand why she dropped him like a hot potato. 

Tony's ouster was on Tony.

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, Wandering Snark said:

This happened to many a person at tribe swap and/or merge where you haven't gotten to know or have any "ins" with the new members of a tribe. Happens quite often actually that a game turn or twist "unfairly" targets one player. This situation is not unique or unprecedented.

Also factored in at that point is you are forced to adapt to your new situation. He who hesitates is lost.

I would reject that comparison as inapplicable.  With any kind of Tribal swap a player has at least a day or two to attempt establishment of some kind of relationship or deal with new-to-them players.  "Adaptation"?  There was zero opportunity to act OR react with members of the opposing Tribe.

I stand by my earlier assertion.  The bedrock of Survivor is relationships - building them, and testing them.  By giving eviction power to people with zero opportunity to build - or destroy - relationships first, Survivor contradicts itself.

[vb68]

1 hour ago, Vyk said:

Now he's more than likely public enemy number one.  He was already potentially that, but he just cemented it.

Yes, after all that whirl of motion going back and forth to Brad, I hope Sandra and the rest of them go nuclear on JT. He really has no excuse.  I wish they had switched the Sierra votes to him.

[ihartcoffee]

3 hours ago, JusLaugh said:

So...there I was, watching what could have been the best episode of Survivor, ever! ...the (whatever the Caleb stealing tribes name is...I call them the Dummies) tribe is out numbered, out manned, out gunned. OH NO! They are definitely going to need a miracle to pull this one out! Lo and behold they get their miracle in the form of their best puppet, the sneaky-snake Tai, finding a hidden immunity idol and revealing it to EVERYONE (which no one does without producer shenanigans).  The Dummies could save their asses and pull off the biggest move in Survivor history.

"Wow! this is going to be GREAT!" I told myself. They get to tribal council and it is very confusing and I can't follow what is being said, but it seems like the Dummy tribe figured out who the Sandra tribe is going to vote for and it's Culpepper! Yay! The Sandra tribe is in SO much trouble! they are going to lose the biggest threat in the game and their leader... I can't wait. What a smart move! And with all of that mouthing off she is doing and JT and Malcolm on board, she is gone for SURE! Greatest. Move. Ever. Or, Culpepper is gone, which is OK, too.

Then, they start voting. I grab my popcorn. I down some water. The suspense is killing me.....then, Tai hands the idol to....Sierra? Okayyyyyy....

Then, they vote out another one of my cuties, Malcolm(b). 

FU Survivor

Summed up my feelings.  WTF happened there??

[seasick]

25 minutes ago, Nashville said:

I for one don't blame Malcolm one bit for tears in his exit interview, because his torch got snuffed by a twist which went totally opposite to the heart and soul of Survivor:

• What is the player's mission in Survivor?  No mystery there - outwit, outplay, outlast.
• How does the player do this?  By building and supporting relationships with other players to carry them through to a certain point in the game, then dismantling those relationships in such a way as to still maintain their support at Final Tribal Council.

So - what part of ANY of that is present when people from ANOTHER Tribe - including players with whom you may NEVER have had ANY chance to do ANY relationship-building - get to vote on you and decide your fate?

So yeah, I'd be pissed too.

I repeat - POSSUM BALLS.

I will say-I feel your pain.   There is luck needed in this game--no doubt.  Lucky if your tribe keeps winning IC's .( Bad game-play if your tribe hates you and throws the challenge to get rid of you)  Lucky if a tribe switch leaves you in a majority.  Unlucky if you draw the odd rock--but I don't mind drawing rocks in the traditional rules.  I LOVE the fire-making challenge for tie-breakers.   

But I agree that too many twists for random pitfalls makes the game too much about luck.  I don't find this twist as offensive in a retread setting because they all are--to some extent- familiar with each other.  But with a fresh cast--no.  

Maybe it's the editing but I got the impression this cast had a phone-it-in attitude from the beginning, which is why I think they did a shake up on what.. Ep2.  Now this to wake them(or us) up.  

Maybe they need to back off on doing so many retread seasons.  I personally don't see the benefit of so many-so my theory at this point is about money.  Cheaper to just phone these people up rather than do a grand tour of survivor auditions., a staff to view audition tapes, and the other logistics involved in choosing from the thousands who apply. 

 

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

As for that tribal, I'm just surprised to learn that they're allowed to get up and move freely about the cabin. Who knew? There are a couple of prior instances I can think of where seating arrangements made a difference in a vote (notably, last season with Hannah sitting next to Michelle, who convinced her to switch her vote mid tribal), so I always assumed that they had to stay seated during tribal. 

I always assumed they are supposed to stay in their seats, too. Does anyone recall an instance where people got out of their seats at TC and started openly whispering with someone who wasn't seated beside them?

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

I always thought the most underrated winner (and I'm surely going to get dinged for this) was Natalie.

+1. And she's still one of my favorite winners.

6 minutes ago, seasick said:

Maybe they need to back off on doing so many retread seasons.  I personally don't see the benefit of so many-so my theory at this point is about money.  Cheaper to just phone these people up rather than do a grand tour of survivor auditions., a staff to view audition tapes, and the other logistics involved in choosing from the thousands who apply. 

I agree with you that there should be less returning player seasons. But I would actually think it costs more to do these becasue I'm assuming returning players ask for more money to compete. They do on Big Brother at least.

This thread has really made me wanna try Pepperidge Farm thin bread! But alas, I have never seen it here.

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I was going to say that every female winner is underrated - even Sandra is underrated as you can clearly see here - but then I realized that every winner is underrated.  People really dislike Tony, for one (I love him).  So yeah, winning this game often doesn't prove anything to anyone here.  LOL.  In my opinion they're all underrated. Except for JT.  LOL (I'm kind of kidding). We'll see what box of goodies JT brings us this year.

I dunno.  I think anyone who makes it to the end and wins deserves it.  If they can avoid being booted and then convince the majority of 9 or so jurors that they played the best game, it's hard to call anyone overrated.  I think the jury usually gets it right.

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

In the opening episode when they walked down very well made pathways to their perfect beach sites, I had a feeling this season was going to be too much Club Med and too little Survivor. 

I think one of the selling points to the cast was that they wouldn't be roughing it. Did you all notice how clean and fluffy Hali's and Sandra's hair was?

[peachmangosteen]

5 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I dunno.  I think anyone who makes it to the end and wins deserves it.

I agree. Except Bob. UGH!

Quote

Did you all notice how clean and fluffy Hali's and Sandra's hair was?

I thought Hali's hair looked horrible! She has a lot of hair and it looks dirty and basically like a rat's nest.

[HurricaneVal]

Well, JT is screwed now.  Of course, he did it to himself by telling Brad about the vote for Sierra right in front of the rest of his tribe.  I just think it got so crazy there for a bit that the JTs and the Halis were confused about which alliance they were temporarily with, and which was their long term alliance, and it turned into quite the melee.

I didn't hate it, but it was difficult to follow for viewers, especially since we couldn't hear what the whisper-whisper-whispers were about.  If this turns into a regular thing, then the Survivor producers will have to mic everybody like the Naked and Afraid people so we can hear what's going on.

Poor Tai did get really confused there in the TC--he truly didn't know who to give the idol to.  But even if he'd mistakenly given it to Culpepper, Brad would have just turned around and handed it to Sierra, no harm, no foul.    I do find it delicious viewing when a HII is used like that to thoroughly scupper another tribe/faction's strategy.

Why Malcolm?  I guess he's a physical threat on the other tribe, and by getting rid of him you increase your own tribe's chances at the challenges, but I would think a strategic Sandra vote would have been a better choice. 

Aaaaaand...did they kill a goat after all?  Those were some suspiciously large "chicken" bones I saw them gnawing on.

[peachmangosteen]

I keep forgetting to mention this: I would kill to see the full footage of that TC. But I would need some closed captioning on it!

[meep.meep]

3 hours ago, Giesela said:

The last few seasons in every TC that they can manage it they split the vote JUST IN CASE someone has an idol.  I think it was weird that they (Sandra) didn't want to consider an idol.  Varner seemed concerned and so did Michaela.  I wonder if it was because of the new rules  Maybe they were unsure how to flush an idol with the new rules and a merged TC so they just said ...we will hope there isn't an idol, which isn't great game play

It was because of the numbers.  Blue had 6 and Red had 5.  If Blue splits their vote and there is no idol, then who ever Red is voting for goes home.  If Blue doesn't split and there's no idol, then Blue picks who goes home.  They decided they would take a risk on Red not having an idol.

Blue should have worked harder on getting Hali to vote with them.