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S01.E02: The Other Woman

formerlyfreedom

By formerlyfreedom
in Feud [V]

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merylinkid

merylinkid

Yet another great episode.   Absolutely loved Joan Blondell's "horse shit" about how "liberated women" would work together.   Honey, they are just as backstabbing as they ever were.   

What happens when you put two powerful women on the same set?   Fireworks.   And a 400 theater release for the movie.   Do not mess with either Joan or Bette.   You will be lucky if you get to live to regret it.  

But we saw how vulnerable both women were.   Joan with her debts.   Bette with worrying about her family.   Both not wanting to be "has-beens"

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Growsonwalls

Growsonwalls

Holy shit this episode kicked the series into gear! So many great one-liners from Bette:

Joan: "What's wrong with Pepsi? Unlike you it's good and pure!"

Bette: "It's pure alright. Pure vodka!"

Also: "What's your name, sweetheart?" "Sylvia." "Fuck off, Sylvia."

Bob is the worst for pity-f__king Bette. His poor wife. I don't know why anyone wants to marry anyone in Hollywood. 

Although Sarandon is way more entertaining this week as Bette I still think Jessica Lange's Joan is the more remarkable portrayal. Conniving, manipulative, but somehow oh-so-sincere. That apparently was very much Joan Crawford in real life and Lange has that personality pegged.

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LoveLeigh

LoveLeigh

2 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Although Sarandon is way more entertaining this week as Bette I still think Jessica Lange's Joan is the more remarkable portrayal. Conniving, manipulative, but somehow oh-so-sincere. That apparently was very much Joan Crawford in real life and Lange has that personality pegged.

I do agree that Jessica Lange is outstanding so far. I think Susan Sarandon is good, but just misses nailing it. That may be because she is trying to create her own character and not just an imitation of Bette Davis... but something is slightly missing. Jessica Lange is not imitating Joan Crawford but yet is totally remarkable in all aspects of her portrayal. 

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Chaos Theory

Chaos Theory

(edited)

If I felt sorry for anyone this episode it was the director's wife.

Hedda Hoppers hats continue to be worth the price of admission.

I am actually really enjoyed Sarandons portrayal.  I think she is doing really well.  I am probably enjoying her scenes more than Jessica Lange's.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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bmoore4026

bmoore4026

I'd never thought I'd feel sorry for Bette Davis and Joan Crawford, but I do.  Two Othellos in a room full of Iagos.

And knowing what BD would eventually do to her mother made me all the more wish Bette had flat out punched her rather than just threaten to slap her.  And not just any punch, but a Dragonball Z Kamehameha right through the wall and across twelve city blocks.

Jack Warner is The Devil and Hedda Hopper is the worst.

And I love me some Victor Buono :)

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TobinAlbers

TobinAlbers

There were so many burns in this episode I couldn't keep up. Hedda's dig that there were many in Hollywood that could identify Joan's body in the dark made me laugh out loud. And yet Joan turned the tables to get Hedda on her side over Bette when originally Hedda came for Joan's head.

Jack saying he hadn't seen that much poop since his last BM. Tucci is gunning for that Emmy.

Joan telling her boy toy that he was being recast.

Bette telling B.D. she'd slap her if it weren't for the expensive braces she'd paid for. Ha! 

And all of B.D.'s monologue to Bette. It was so sad. Bette had thought she'd never be that 'desperate bitter, aging star clinging to Hollywood past her prime' and B.D. Was letting her know that she was headed that way. And even worse she was taking her issues out on her daughter. I know B.D. Was a piece of work apparently but still, her observations weren't that far off. It's a sad situation when you're so bitter about lost youth that you turn on your own daughter.

Carherine Zeta-Jones delivered an epic side-eye at Kathy as Joan's observation about how no matter what the times, women will turn on each other. It was like Olivia's eyes were saying 'Well, I wasn't gonna say it out loud, but she ain't lying'

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vb68

vb68

(edited)
Quote

Although Sarandon is way more entertaining this week as Bette I still think Jessica Lange's Joan is the more remarkable portrayal. Conniving, manipulative, but somehow oh-so-sincere. That apparently was very much Joan Crawford in real life and Lange has that personality pegged.

I agree. I think the difference for me is I never actually forget I'm watching Susan Sarandon.  I think she's doing a very good if not great job, but I'm watching Susan Sarandon play Bette Davis. With Jessica Lange, I'm not thinking or noticing any of that. She's fully immersed as Joan Crawford. It's really a masterstroke what Lange is pulling off.

Having said that, I'm more more on Bette Davis' side in this and have more empathy for her. I don't think she was playing games with Joan or even really keeping score.  She was moody and egotistical, but she was just basically navigating the terrain. And the loneliness does come through. That may be the strongest point of this depiction of Davis.

On the other hand, we see that Joan and the director are both manipulative and conniving  (with reasons) over everything.  But I do think the overriding message of the episode was that Jack Warner  was an evil son of a bitch.  I have to think that both Bette and Joan would be happy that  that has been documented.

I'm really enjoying the hell out of the series.

And kudos on the makeup/lighting on the older movie flashback scenes.

Edited by vb68
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GaT

GaT

I think Lange & Sarandon are acting the shit out of this.

3 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

It's pretty sad that actresses felt they had to sleep with studio execs and directors to get ahead. 

 

That pretty much defined it, these 2 women were top actresses & they still had limited power.

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voiceover

voiceover

I mostly just loved the two of them together.  There were some flashes of great dialogue.  ("Fuck off, Sylvia!" was, I agree, pure BD)  But Sarandon really got me with her recall of the All About Eve scene in the car ("...'the things you drop along the way'...), and how, sitting there at 40, she'd thought it wouldn't happen to her; now here she was at 50, and it had.

Gaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!

Some of the rest of it, though -- the sexism, the ageism -- still feels laid on with a trowel.  I wish they'd stop bleating to the audience, "See what cavemen they all were then!!"  

To morph for a moment into Victor Buono (who'll always be TV-Batman's King Tut to me): "In my business they call that 'indicating', darling!"

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blaase

blaase

2 hours ago, vb68 said:

I agree. I think the difference for me is I never actually forget I'm watching Susan Sarandon.  I think she's doing a very good if not great job, but I'm watching Susan Sarandon play Bette Davis. With Jessica Lange, I'm not thinking or noticing any of that. She's fully immersed as Joan Crawford. It's really a masterstroke what Lange is pulling off.

Having said that, I'm more more on Bette Davis' side in this and have more empathy for her. I don't think she was playing games with Joan or even really keeping score.  She was moody and egotistical, but she was just basically navigating the terrain. And the loneliness does come through. That may be the strongest point of this depiction of Davis.

On the other hand, we see that Joan and the director are both manipulative and conniving  (with reasons) over everything.  But I do think the overriding message of the episode was that Jack Warner  was an evil son of a bitch.  I have to think that both Bette and Joan would be happy that  that has been documented.

I'm really enjoying the hell out of the series.

And kudos on the makeup/lighting on the older movie flashback scenes.

I disagree I feel like I am watching one of her "American horror story " characters with drawn in eyebrows not bad just not really Joan Crawford. I really hate the accent she is using. I had to laugh at the line that Davis looked like her mother since Sarandon looks younger than Lange, by a lot!

 

Sarandon is killing it, everything except the voice is perfect to me.

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merylinkid

merylinkid

Oh yeah the flashbacks to old movies.   With the current actresses.   Extremely well done.    The effort put into this show is amazing.   I hope the other feuds live up to this (I'll be honest I am not looking forward to Charles & Diana, too tragic, least with Bette and Joan no one died)

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ghoulina

ghoulina

So much manipulation in this episode! Bette and Joan working together to manipulate Aldrich. Aldrich manipulating them back into being enemies. The women individually manipulating Aldrich into being his "star". Joan manipulating Hedda. It was a like a constant tennis match and I loved every minute of it! The fun part was trying to separate the manipulation from the genuine emotions these women were going through. 

I'm still loving Lange's performance more than Sarandon's, but both are doing amazing work. I appreciate seeing that this feud was much more than just petty jealousy. 

I felt absolutely awful for Aldrich's wife. But I was so distracted in their scenes because I swear my grandparents had the exact same headboard in their bedroom. The costumes and settings are half the fun!

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NutMeg

NutMeg

It is so tragic that these two women, who could have had a good rapport or even a friendship, were manipulated for publicity and fell for it. (instead of, you know, comparing notes? what insecurities will do to you...)

And to be honest, I'm not even sure that that has changed that much. (I would like to think it has though)

I'm loving Susan Sarandon as Bette Davis here. Jessica Lange is amazing but the physical and vocal differences are still blocks for me, although less than last week, so maybe next week or otherwise soon I'll be able to overlook it. 

Never heard anything about BD's daughter (DD? BD?) so going to the real feud thread to find out more.

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toodles

toodles

Kiernan (sp) is growing in to a beautiful young woman.  She would certainly give Betty draper a run for her money.

Omg, this show is fabulous to watch.  I love the sets, the cars, the costumes, well just everything.

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vb68

vb68

Quote

I felt absolutely awful for Aldrich's wife.

Who played her? I thought her voice sounded familiar. She really made the most of her screentime.

As desperate as Joan comes across, she does have real flashes of brilliance in her cunning. Her manipulating Bette in helping to get rid of the young blonde bombshell was pitch perfect, and then playing on emotions with Hedda Hopper was astute as hell.

If Joan's financial problems were as bad as she told Hedda too, I wonder how she managed to keep that under wraps.

I hope they cast Louella as well.  I was hoping to see her last night. 

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Chaos Theory

Chaos Theory

(edited)
7 minutes ago, vb68 said:

Who played her? I thought her voice sounded familiar. She really made the most of her screentime.

Molly Price.  Mostly notably from Third Watch although I never watched that. I have seen her guest star in a bunch of stuff like Bates Motel and Shameless 

Edited by Chaos Theory
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kassa

kassa

47 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Fabulous!  I was thinking, "I'm going to use that some day," but realized I'd never be in a situation where it could happen.  Bummer.

I plan to just sweetly ask an annoying person their name, then say the rest of it in my head.

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iMonrey

iMonrey

Quote

I feel like I am watching one of her "American horror story " characters with drawn in eyebrows not bad just not really Joan Crawford.

I kind of agree here - if I had never seen American Horror Story I would probably be a lot more impressed with Lange right now, but I have a hard time getting past the sense that's just playing one of her AHS characters. She's good, but . . . she's kind of a one-trick pony after you've seen her do this in other shows.

I'm 99% sure that this episode was almost entirely fiction and nothing that happened in it happened during the filming of Baby Jane. However, I do think certain elements of the story were played out in the 40s and 50s when both actresses worked at Warner Bros. and artistic license allowed the show to compress those events into the filming of this movie for the sake of expediency. 

It's a fascinating show to watch, even though I'm still not convinced it quite works. However, as long as they keep giving me zingers like this:

Quote

"What's your name, sweetheart?" "Sylvia." "Fuck off, Sylvia."

I'm in.

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ThatsDarling

ThatsDarling

I enjoyed this episode, but as a film buff I have to quibble with the show's assertion that Bette turned down Mildred Pierce because she didn't want to play the mother of a teenager. She had played the mother of 22-year-old Theresa Wright in The Little Foxes four years earlier. The same year Mildred Pierce was released, Davis played 50-year-old Lily Cristobel Moffatt in The Corn is Green, wearing 30 pounds of padding and a gray wig to look age appropriate. Vanity was of little concern to her when choosing projects.

BD's verbal annihilation of her mother was upsetting to watch, but consistent with the behavior of the real BD. Her assertion that "men don't look at you anymore" was a bit difficult to believe when uttered to the very attractive Susan Sarandon, as was Joan Crawford's comment about Davis looking old enough to be her mother. Years of heavy drinking and smoking had taken their toll on Davis's physical appearance by the early 1960s, but Sarandon is too well-maintained for those comments to make sense.

One of my favorite lines of the night:

Crawford: You're so lucky your acting career never took off, Hedda. So fortunate you never became a star...

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psychoticstate

psychoticstate

10 minutes ago, ThatsDarling said:

I enjoyed this episode, but as a film buff I have to quibble with the show's assertion that Bette turned down Mildred Pierce because she didn't want to play the mother of a teenager. She had played the mother of 22-year-old Theresa Wright in The Little Foxes four years earlier. The same year Mildred Pierce was released, Davis played 50-year-old Lily Cristobel Moffatt in The Corn is Green, wearing 30 pounds of padding and a gray wig to look age appropriate. Vanity was of little concern to her when choosing projects.

I don't recall reading that Bette had turned down "Mildred Pierce" for that reason although it's likely she saw the script since she was Warner's #1 actress.  I do recall hearing that Norma Shearer and Barbara Stanwyck both turned it down.  Shearer most definitely refused it for having to play the mother of a teenager as she was desperately trying to keep her career and youth.  

The show probably took a little liberty there, in order to play up the feud. 

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Wings

Wings

4 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Fabulous!  I was thinking, "I'm going to use that some day," but realized I'd never be in a situation where it could happen.  Bummer.

I could have used that at Walmart yesterday, seriously!  

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poeticlicensed

poeticlicensed

According to Considine's book, Bette claimed she was never shown the script for Mildred Pierce. But her contract stated that she would get right of first refusal on all scripts. Other actresses passed on the role, including Rosalind Russell and Ann Sheridan. Sheridan said that the character of Mildred was too tough and the character of the child was a horror. So I'm guessing from the fact that several actresses turned down the role meant that the script was kind of a pariah among A-list stars.. But it was huge in terms of what happened, fueling Joan's comeback. Bette was probably too proud to admit she miscalculated on the role, so she claimed it was never offered to her. But that's speculation on my part.   

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Unclejosh

Unclejosh

I really like this show as someone who never heard of this Feud prior to this series being shown. My only experience to either actress was Baby Jane which I loved and watched several times with my mom as a kid.  Did Bette really sleep with Aldrich or is that speculation?

I find it funny or ironic that personally I found Bette Davis much more attractive in her youth than Joan Crawford despite the apparently prevailing thoughts as the time as I found Joan's face a little harsh, however Joan certainly took care of herself better and aged better and was prettier as they got older.   However, I have the exact opposite reaction to Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon.  I think young Jessica Lange was one of the prettiest women in film and while Susan Sarandan was always attractive, Jessica was just flawless to me.  Now those roles are reversed.  I think Susan while older has maintained her looks on another level than Jessica.  Don't get me wrong, all 4 were/are beautiful in different ways, I am just noting the effects of aging and how it can effect people differently.

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merylinkid

merylinkid

5 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Fabulous!  I was thinking, "I'm going to use that some day," but realized I'd never be in a situation where it could happen.  Bummer.

Oh honey, I make up situations.   Today when annoyed with an opposing counsel, I may have muttered (alone no one to hear) "Fuck you Sylvia."   Opposing counsel is not named Sylvia.   This will basically be my go to saying when blowing something or someone off.

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Growsonwalls

Growsonwalls

2 hours ago, Unclejosh said:

I really like this show as someone who never heard of this Feud prior to this series being shown. My only experience to either actress was Baby Jane which I loved and watched several times with my mom as a kid.  Did Bette really sleep with Aldrich or is that speculation?

I think that's speculation. Bette actually wasn't known for sleeping around that much. She had a major affair with director William Wyler and she married several times but she always claimed that she didn't enjoy sex and thought it was "God's joke." 

I think one thing this series does capture is that Joan was very much into being the "star" wherever she went. She needed Mamacita to travel with her to the set every day just to prove she had a maid at all times. 

This is an excellent interview with her where she talks at some length about what she deems necessary to maintain this star status.

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psychoticstate

psychoticstate

3 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

According to Considine's book, Bette claimed she was never shown the script for Mildred Pierce. But her contract stated that she would get right of first refusal on all scripts. Other actresses passed on the role, including Rosalind Russell and Ann Sheridan. Sheridan said that the character of Mildred was too tough and the character of the child was a horror. So I'm guessing from the fact that several actresses turned down the role meant that the script was kind of a pariah among A-list stars.. But it was huge in terms of what happened, fueling Joan's comeback. Bette was probably too proud to admit she miscalculated on the role, so she claimed it was never offered to her. But that's speculation on my part.   

I cannot believe that Davis, as Warner's top star, would not have been shown that script.  I think she passed on it, as quite a few actresses did, and tried to save face later on since Crawford turned in an Academy Award winning performance.  FWIW, I think Davis would have been wrong as Mildred.  She had a toughness that would have made Mildred early in the picture unbelievable; Crawford, at a new studio and working on a film for the first time in several years and knowing her future was in jeopardy, gave Mildred just the right amount of vulnerability and indecision. 

@Growsonwalls, thank you for that interview clip.  I encourage all to watch it.  You definitely see the glam side of Joan but we also get film clips (Grand Hotel and A Woman's Face) and some of her softer, truer character.  She really was a physically lovely woman. 

I have to say that while I wasn't as impressed with Sarandon last week, she really owned this episode.  The sets and clothing continue to impress me.  I soooo was born during the wrong time. 

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Jan Spears

Jan Spears

I continue to be impressed at the use of very real Hollywood events in the dialogue to add period flavor to the episodes. For instance, when Joan Blondell (Kathy Bates) was recounting how MGM pushed Crawford out in 1943 after 18+ years with the studio, she referenced Greta Garbo and Norma Shearer. Of course, Crawford, Garbo and Shearer were the great troika at MGM from the mid-1920s to the late-1930s. (Shearer was at the founding of the studio in 1924 and Crawford and Garbo joined the following year.)

As late at 1939, they were still having big hits for the studio -- Crawford and Shearer with The Women and Greta Garbo with Ninotchka (for which Garbo was Oscar-nominated.) In the early 40s, though, they started to run cold. Garbo's primary audience was in Europe and that was lost to her with the start of World War II. She and Louis B. Mayer agreed to wait out the war before filming the final movie under her contract but, before the war ended, they agreed by mutual consent to void her contract. Shearer, without her husband Irving Thalberg (legendary chief-of-production at MGM who died in 1936) to guide her career  and at odds with Mayer, opted to retire in 1942. Crawford hung on until 1943 but, by then, the studio had lost interest in her and the best dramatic scripts were going to Greer Garson. (You saw a little bit of that competition with the scene in Mayer's office where Crawford requested the lead in Madame Curie, which went to Garson and who received an Oscar nomination for the part.)

So, that little bit of narrative recited by Bates/Blondell was all true and accurate.

I also liked how the show introduced an (unseen) Louella Parsons, who was Hedda Hopper's great rival for dominance as the top gossip columnist in Hollywood. And how Crawford effortlessly played them off against one another to forward her own agenda.

So many great performances in this series. I can see Lange and Sarandon getting nominated for Emmy's for Best Actress and Bates, Davis and Hoffman getting nominated for Best Supporting Actress.

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txhorns79

txhorns79

(edited)
Quote

I cannot believe that Davis, as Warner's top star, would not have been shown that script.  I think she passed on it, as quite a few actresses did, and tried to save face later on since Crawford turned in an Academy Award winning performance.

I agree.  A number of actresses passed, and the story itself is somewhat eye rolling.  A mother sacrifices everything (including almost her freedom) for the biggest spoiled brat of all time!   

Quote

I agree. I think the difference for me is I never actually forget I'm watching Susan Sarandon.  I think she's doing a very good if not great job, but I'm watching Susan Sarandon play Bette Davis. With Jessica Lange, I'm not thinking or noticing any of that. She's fully immersed as Joan Crawford. It's really a masterstroke what Lange is pulling off.

I think that's true.  Jessica Lange is made up to look like Joan Crawford, while Susan Sarandon just looks like herself. 

Edited by txhorns79
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blaase

blaase

(edited)
9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I kind of agree here - if I had never seen American Horror Story I would probably be a lot more impressed with Lange right now, but I have a hard time getting past the sense that's just playing one of her AHS characters. She's good, but . . . she's kind of a one-trick pony after you've seen her do this in other shows.

I'm 99% sure that this episode was almost entirely fiction and nothing that happened in it happened during the filming of Baby Jane. However, I do think certain elements of the story were played out in the 40s and 50s when both actresses worked at Warner Bros. and artistic license allowed the show to compress those events into the filming of this movie for the sake of expediency. 

It's a fascinating show to watch, even though I'm still not convinced it quite works. However, as long as they keep giving me zingers like this:

I'm in.

It's like Lange has been channeling Crawford in all her AHS characters.

She's not doing bad just startling how her Joan Crawford would fit right into each season of American Horror Story seamlessly lol.

 

I keep going back and forth on team Joan or Bette which  is why this series is good so far. Who will honestly be rooting for Prince Charles in season 2?

Edited by blaase
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blaase

blaase

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I agree.  A number of actresses passed, and the story itself is somewhat eye rolling.  A mother sacrifices everything (including almost her freedom) for the biggest spoiled brat of all time!   

I think that's true.  Jessica Lange is made up to look like Joan Crawford, while Susan Sarandon just looks like herself. 

Well kind of unfair since Sarandan has had the same reddish auburn hair color that Bette Davis had in 1962 for years and that is what she's known for while Lange is better known as a blonde.

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hkit

hkit

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

 

I think that's true.  Jessica Lange is made up to look like Joan Crawford, while Susan Sarandon just looks like herself. 

The hair and makeup on Lange is very well done. She's instantly recognizable as Joan Crawford to me. 

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AuntiePam

AuntiePam

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think that's true.  Jessica Lange is made up to look like Joan Crawford, while Susan Sarandon just looks like herself. 

Sarandon's large eyes and heavy bosom go a long way toward making me accept her as middle-aged Bette.  They're both so good, I'm having no trouble thinking of them as Joan and Bette.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

(edited)
10 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I don't recall reading that Bette had turned down "Mildred Pierce" for that reason although it's likely she saw the script since she was Warner's #1 actress.  I do recall hearing that Norma Shearer and Barbara Stanwyck both turned it down.  Shearer most definitely refused it for having to play the mother of a teenager as she was desperately trying to keep her career and youth.  

 

I believe it was 1942's  "Mrs. Miniver" that Shearer turned down because she didn't want to play the mother of an adult son, and understandably the younger Greer Garson was  hesitant to play the role,  but Garson  got the Oscar for it, and the "son" as a husband in real life.   Shearer was four years into retirement when "Mildred Pierce" came around.   (Though it would have been interesting to have seen Shearer's take of Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard, which supposedly she was offered before Swanson.)

Seem to recall the director Curtiz wanted  Stanwyck for the mother, after Davis reportedly turned it down  by some accounts.

Would agree that Davis wouldn't have hesitated just because of  playing a mother;  Besides "The little Foxes" in 1942, in Mr. "Skeffington" she had a grown daughter and that was also before MP.

I have to admit I still find jarring even after this second episode Catherine Zeta Jones's  take on Olivia De Haviland.

Her  delivery is NOTHING like Olivia's, who had a very distinct melodious voice.  It pulls me out every time.

OTOH, Kathy Bate's persona /delivery seems  to evoke the spunky Joan Blondell.

Edited by caracas1914
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voiceover

voiceover

For any General Hospital fans watching, it may interest you to know (in case you didn't) that Anna Lee (Lila Quartermaine) replaced the Tomato in the red dress.

There's a clip that surfaces on TCM from time to time, of Anna recollecting how nervous she was to work with Davis (whom she greatly admired)...only to have Aldrich tell her later that Bette told *him* she thought Anna quite good in the role.

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qtpye

qtpye

(edited)
6 hours ago, voiceover said:

For any General Hospital fans watching, it may interest you to know (in case you didn't) that Anna Lee (Lila Quartermaine) replaced the Tomato in the red dress.

There's a clip that surfaces on TCM from time to time, of Anna recollecting how nervous she was to work with Davis (whom she greatly admired)...only to have Aldrich tell her later that Bette told *him* she thought Anna quite good in the role.

Was the "tomato" replaced because guys were mooning over her on the set and Joan Crawford got jealous...particularly, after the "my grandmother loves you comment"?

I always see Ryan Murphy vehicles have older women extremely catty and nasty to younger women.  I understand Hollywood is a nasty place that mercilessly pits women against each other for their youth and beauty, but I feel it was overdone.  I  mean all younger women know that they will get older and it is not always the cat fight Muprhy loves to portray. 

Overall, I liked the episode.

I like Susan's performance and the comments about how old she looks seems crazy, because the actress is still very attractive.  There is no way she could think she looks like Lange's mother.

I do think the Joan Crawford "look" is not flattering to Lange.  Crawford was a stunning dark haired brunette with pretty almond shaped eyes.  Lange's eyes are too small and beady.

Also, Lange's voice does not seem right.  Crawford had a very dignified precise way of speaking to hide her impoverished background and lack of training.  Lange's voice just sounds like a shaky old lady.

I have seen Lange look beautiful in American Horror Story, so her looks are not the problem.  I think Murphy is purposely making her look pathetic and vulnerable to contrast with the crazy campy, hard as nails performance of Faye Dunaway in "Mommy Dearest".  However, this is just not Joan for me.

Wow, Kiernan Shipka looked like a mini Betty Draper in this episode.

Edited by qtpye
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darkestboy

darkestboy

Second episode was great stuff.

Shame to see the likes of Aldrich, Hopper and Warner all playing their parts in escalating Bette and Joan's feud but both Lange and Sarandon are excelling with the antagonism between their characters.

Despite Susan's weak singing moment, I do think she's stealing this a little from Lange as Davis though. I loved the scenes with BD chewing out Bette and the last moment with Aldrich as well.

Joan "recasting" her husband was hilarious along with Bette's reaction to Victor Buono (he's always gonna be King Tut to me) and the Pepsi dig though.

I'd prefer more of Joan Blondell and Olivia than Hedda in later episodes though, 7/10

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benteen

benteen

Very good episode once again and I'm continuing to enjoy this series.  The performances are great and the sets alone would make this a must watch show.

Joan playing Hedda was a really good scene.

If there was one scene that took me out of the show for a moment, it was BD's rant against Bette.  It sounded way too meta and 21st century to me.  It's like something a person in the future would say about a person in the past that they had read about.  Wish fulfillment perhaps from the person writing it?  Something tells me if that particular moment actually happened, it wouldn't have sounded like that.

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txhorns79

txhorns79

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If there was one scene that took me out of the show for a moment, it was BD's rant against Bette.  It sounded way too meta and 21st century to me.  It's like something a person in the future would say about a person in the past that they had read about.  Wish fulfillment perhaps from the person writing it?  Something tells me if that particular moment actually happened, it wouldn't have sounded like that.

I don't know.  The concepts of a mother competing with her daughter over men, and an older woman refusing to vacate the stage despite being well past her prime aren't new.  I haven't read B.D.'s book about her mother, but my understanding is Bette comes off pretty horribly, or at least badly enough for Bette to completely disinherit her and her entire family.  

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