S01.E06: Chapter Six: Faster, Pussycats! Kill! Kill!

[Jeffurry]

The way Alice Cooper said "Jughead" and the fact that Josie is short for Josephine are just two of many very good reasons to watch this show.

[Dobian]

17 minutes ago, starri said:

All of the episodes have titles from old movies.  I guess we've reached a point where a Brian DePalma movie from the 80s ("Body Double") is considered an old movie.

I usually don't even pay attention to episode titles, haha

[Cookie1981]

This show is...not that great for a CW offering if I'm measuring it up to the standards of Crazy Ex-girlfriend and Jane the Virgin...even Gossip Girl back in the day had me way more hooked by episode 6. BUT. I am enjoying watching Betty sleuth her way around town with Jughead and be cute in general. She is the star for me with Jughead not far behind. She has a 1950s good girl vibe and look but a backbone of steel. Her parents are terrible in a hilarious way and her moms laughter about the dad being the killer was a great moment.

Veronica has been more appealing in previous episodes and I agree with other posters who have picked up on her having a more sapphic chemistry with female costars. Hoping her story picks up a bit with her mom forging her name on those documents (which makes zero sense but TV oh well).

Archie's storyline is so boring it's ridiculous especially with his supposed bffs traipsing around following leads in a murder mystery and secret pregnancy reveals. Stage fright? Hardly riveting TV.

Jughead has a sort of grungy cuteness that I enjoy so I love him being paired with Betty's perky preppy smart girl but I had to rewind when they kissed....was there some other moment in the show where they had enough sexual tension to justify that?? It came out of nowhere to me even though my little shipper heart did a fist pump. I took Betty's look up at the loudspeaker and then leaving in hot pursuit of her own storyline as making the choice for herself/sister/the mystery and maybe a little towards Jughead. I'm sure Archie will feel a twinge of jealousy if they get together (she was into that kiss as far as I could tell) and she will be conflicted (because duh I've watched TV before) but I'm interested to see how it pans out. They aren't nearly as angst ridden as my usual preferences but I love their simpler chemistry and Cole is more my speed than AJ look wise. I'm glad he is twenty something in real life otherwise...yuck. 

I'm wondering if Jason was somehow hooked up with the gang to sell the drugs to get enough money to get them out of town. Maybe it's the gang that was following  Betty and Jughead to recover the drugs and knowing Polly was involved with him and then set fire to destroy any evidence of their involvement. ETA just read a recap on another site that also covered the previous episode a bit and whoops we already knew he was selling drugs (I need to pay attention) I think the gang is involved in his murder or was at least following Betty and Jughead to recover the product and then destroyed evidence of a connection between them. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by Cookie1981

[AzureOwl]

Between this episode and La La Land I am beginning to wonder if being a pretentious, insufferable, holier-than-thou asshole is a prerequisite to be a jazz musician.

3 hours ago, yellowfred said:

Okay, serious question:  what, exactly, did Archie think Josie's real name was?  I can only imagine the look of abject betrayal on his face when he finds out that Betty's real name is Elizabeth.

I empathize with Archie on this one. I was in my mid-20s when I found out that my cousin Vicky's name was actually Virginia and not Victoria like I had always assumed. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by AzureOwl
Formatting

[MV007]

I love Betty.  And I kind of like Jughead.  But I just haven't seen anything romantic between them.  I'm not necessarily opposed to them as a couple.  I just thought they were friends and there weren't any real hints that Jughead had feelings for her or was developing feelings.  If I never watched the promos or wasn't slightly spoiled it would've come out of nowhere for me?

I continue to be baffled by what they're doing with the main triangle we know will eventually come.  Why aren't those three interacting more.  Veronica and Archie are developing a nice friendship but its seems like a really slow burn.  I expected that triangle to be a bigger part of the show.

Edited March 3, 2017 by MV007

[Chaos Theory]

Alice Cooper never change.

[dippydee]

58 minutes ago, Cookie1981 said:

I am enjoying watching Betty sleuth her way around town with Jughead and be cute in general. She is the star for me with Jughead not far behind. She has a 1950s good girl vibe and look but a backbone of steel.

Me too. I've always been a Veronica fan from the comics but I really like what they've done with the show Betty she has a sweetness that's matched with enough of the barely repressed crazy which makes her really fun. I think the actress is doing a great job with it too. She's my favourite character (along with Mama Cooper). All of which makes me pray they keep her away from simpering after Archie because they got a gem in her and I don't want to see the show waste it.

[Neurochick]

The pairings on this show are interesting; Betty and Jughead, Archie and Valerie.  I like them because that's what should happen when you're young; you're not sure what you want, so you need to "test the waters" so to speak.

I think the parents histories with each other seems more interesting than their children's adventures.  Seems like no one really leaves Riverdale, or if they do they always come back.

Not surprised Polly was pregnant, but I do wonder if she has issues, even Betty wondered if Polly was "off."  

I don't know how I feel about Josie but I do like Valerie and I hope Melody gets a chance to shine.  

[Bruinsfan]

I too wondered WTF was up with Archie getting pride of place in the variety show while the popular girl group that actually had a following and a recording contract in their mid teens serves as his warm-up. Though I do think having him be (allegedly) talented at music at least fits the source material better than the coach taking one look at an incoming sophomore's abs and promoting him to quarterback in this town where there are apparently no living junior or senior boys to round out the athletics program. Did the team bus drive off a bridge on the way back from last year's championship game or something?

13 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

So, Archie is afraid of werewolves now? Um... okay. 

It made me think of Teen Wolf, another hot mess of a show for the younger set with a sexy-but-dimwitted lead and much more interesting supporting characters.

13 hours ago, jay741982 said:

Another very good episode tonight. The theory that Polly is Pregant is true, wonder where she went and are we to believe she set that car on fire? Loved Betty/Jughead sleuthing and shit Juggy should be getting Betty to say Archie Who? Eventually lol.

If it wasn't her, are we to believe that someone was hanging out in the woods constantly for months ready to torch the car if anyone stumbled across it?

9 hours ago, Minneapple said:

HAHAHAHA I love the parents on this show.

Mayor McCoy, to Josie: Find someone skinny and beautiful, but not as skinny and beautiful as you.

To be fair, finding another teenage girl as beautiful as Ashleigh Murray in a small town wouldn't be an easy thing to pull off. Hell, it would be a tall order in Hollywood.

[Dee]

18 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Did the team bus drive off a bridge on the way back from last year's championship game or something?

It's been known to happen!

[swanjun]

That smooch is almost as squee-inducing as Logan and Veronica were!

[maxineofarc]

2 hours ago, Cookie1981 said:

Jughead has a sort of grungy cuteness that I enjoy so I love him being paired with Betty's perky preppy smart girl but I had to rewind when they kissed....was there some other moment in the show where they had enough sexual tension to justify that??

Not really IMO. They've given each other a few "heyyyy" looks, notably last episode when Betty openly checked out Jughead in his suit that all homeless teenagers obviously are known to own, but that's about it. Jughead seems to have a romantic streak, though, wouldn't surprise me if he's just seen too many movies.

[AdorkableSars]

Quote

 

Amazing Veronica's mom actually asked Veronica to sign the forms before she forged Veronica's signature. Figured she would have just forged the signature to begin with. Also amazing that forging your daughter's signature to help your possible new lover doesn't even crack the top three of worst parental actions in this episode.

Archie's dad continues to be a good parent who encourages his son which makes him tied with the sheriff for probably the best parents in town.

 

Quote

Loved getting more backstory for Josie. Sierra is demanding and shady but at least she tries to support her daughter, Miles is just the worst. I thought it was supremely wack of Josie not to compromise more with Val, who is mega talented & genuinely cares about her, but since she's the 'star' & her daddy issues were cranked up to 11 this week, I'll give her a pass. For now.

Jughead: “They’re parents…they’re all crazy.” Me: “On this show…TRUE DAT.”

Now we see that Josie’s parents suck too, especially her dad. And Veronica’s mom, while the least awful on the show, is also pretty crappy. So Fred is the only normal parent…except for the fact that he’s trying to begin a relationship with his son’s classmate/friend’s mother (who is MARRIED). But at least he seems like a great and supportive parent. Oy. At least Sheriff Keller is still cool…please let him remain cool! Let Kevin have a normal parent, at least! (Also, “supremely wack” is my new favorite term for describing messed up things…)

 

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Archie's song was awful, and his voice is thin. Valerie looked so proud. She may have hearing issues.

Haha, I actually though Archie’s song wasn’t that bad, but this made me laugh hard.

 

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That product placement was insane, not Polly and Betty Cooper insane, but crazy nonetheless.

But it was also hilarious (unintentionally so, I’m sure). I legit had to pause for a laughter at that ohhhh so subtle zoom-in of the Cover Girl mascara…SO LASHY

 

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Dammit, dammit, dammit. Ringing the bell on Betty/Jug this early means it's not going to go anywhere. And Jug initiated it, which is worse! He's going to get his heart broken when Betty - who started thinking of cars when he kissed her and who looked angstily at the loudspeaker in school while Archie sang -  jumps at the chance to pine for Archie some more. Archie, the golden boy who's so wonderful people actually applaud him as he walks down the halls! MOTHERFORKING SHIRT, I AM NOT HERE FOR THIS.

 

Quote

 

I continue to be baffled by what they're doing with the main triangle we know will eventually come.  Why aren't those three interacting more.  Veronica and Archie are developing a nice friendship but its seems like a really slow burn.  I expected that triangle to be a bigger part of the show.

 

For everyone saying that the whole Jughead/Betty thing seems rushed, I get it. But also, the looks that he’s been giving her from episode 3 onward show that he has great affection/respect/admiration for her. And his jealousy over her date in episode 5 was palpable. Also, Betty seems to show more trust towards Jughead than anyone else so far in the series. She asked him to work on the Blue & Gold with her, and she’s been very open with him about her parents and Polly, etc. (Not to mention the cute checking out she did of him in his suit in episode 5.)

I, for one, loved the kiss this episode. It seemed as though Jughead had been waiting to do that for a while. And it kind of seems as though he’s had feelings for her for a while. Betty’s little smile after the kiss was cute too. I am totally onboard the Bughead train…I’m an over-30 shipper, YAY!!! But for real though, Cole and Lili have a really sweet chemistry. I’m excited to see how this unfolds with their potential budding relationship/Polly/crazy Cooper parent/Jughead’s hot but messed up Dad/Jughead’s homelessness. I actually liked the idea of Betty and Jughead together even in the days when I read Archie comics, so this is that much better for me!

Just please…PLEASE don’t let the Betty/Archie/Veronica triangle or Betty’s feelings for Archie ruin this.(SON OF A BEACH) I too thought the triangle would be a big part of the show, but let’s face it – this isn’t exactly the classic Archie we all know from the comics (at least the older ones…haven’t read any of the new renditions.) So I’m more than happy to NOT have a Betty/Archie/Veronica triangle. Let Valerie be the new Betty of the triangle.

Ok, now to get back to my adult office job because I am an over-30 adult who shouldn’t be so consumed by this, dammit.

[yellowfred]

2 hours ago, MV007 said:

I continue to be baffled by what they're doing with the main triangle we know will eventually come.  Why aren't those three interacting more.  Veronica and Archie are developing a nice friendship but its seems like a really slow burn.  I expected that triangle to be a bigger part of the show.

Yeah, I also thought the triangle would be more central to the narrative, but I can't say I'm upset that it's not.  Like, both Betty and Veronica are more interesting away from Archie, and I don't think he has enough chemistry with either of them to warrant pushing that aspect to the forefront of the show.  I'm sure we won't be able to avoid it, in the long term, but I can imagine that the writers might be worried about the audience getting burned out on the love triangle if they push it too hard in the first season.

On kind of a random side note, the whole "just stick to football" thing seemed like an odd insult for a bunch of football players to use.

[rho]

I feel like I'm supposed to sympathize with Josie after learning her dad is a Grade A Douchenozzle but I think the actress is subpar and it's doing the character no favors. Plus she keeps calling everyone "rich girl" like it's an insult yet her best friend is Cheryl Blosson, whose family basically owns the whole town, and her mom can't be making a bad living taking bribes as the mayor and wearing designer every day. This show is such a mess!

Love Val! I wish her storyline wasn't so dependent on Archie since he's a snooze, even though the actor is charming enough. I really hope they find a way to drag him back into the mystery. Maybe Polly will hide out at his being as he was her neighbor and he's probably inherited Fred's savior complex. 

I think this show might suffer from too many characters (bring back Skeet!) because there's just way too much going on. But I also find it so comical that Betty is off playing Nancy Drew to solve the murder mystery and everyone else is stressing about the talent show. I like that it's not taking itself too seriously, just as long as it doesn't go the PLL route and just throw everything against a wall to see what sticks, leaving a bunch of interesting plots unsolved.

[CabotCove]

14 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

 Archie, the golden boy who's so wonderful people actually applaud him as he walks down the halls! MOTHERFORKING SHIRT, I AM NOT HERE FOR THIS.

???

Edited March 3, 2017 by HeroLeague

[tennisgurl]

Holy crap, I haven't seen this many crazy, corrupt, awful parents since Veronica Mars! Seriously, does Riverdale use the same social service system as Neptune? These people should be allowed to take care of a goldfish, let alone a kid. The only parents who aren't crocked or awful are Kevin's dad, and Archie's dad, and even Archie's dad was weirdly alright with letting the woman who statutory raped his son skip town without any punishment. Its amazing there aren't more dead or institutionalized kids in this town.

Love the title! Now there's a reference you don't hear very often. I was glad we got more of Josie and the other Pussy Cats, although I still think Josie needs to give Val some more props. She writes the songs, and she cant even sing lead once? Not cool, even if your dad is an asshole and your mom is a stage mom. I like Val a lot, and I actually like her and Archie. They sound nice together. Will they go to out space soon though?!?!

I actually do like Archie alright, even if he is kind of the "normal" guy in the middle of all this crazy. His normal teen issues are a nice balance to all the Twin Peaks style weirdness. I do hope he gets a little more involved in the mystery at some point though.

So Polly really is pregnant, and, more pressingly, does in fact exist! And she's been sent to some kind of Magdalene House/Insane asylum straight out of the 1950s. Add a few bouts of electro shock and some aliens, and you pretty much have the second season of American Horror Story. It does look like Polly is a bit off (the actress had some crazy eyes going once or twice) but its possible she went crazy after her awful parents gas lighted her and threw her into the aforementioned Magdalene House/Insane asylum straight out of the 1950s after she got pregnant with her secret boyfriend who her parents hate because of some stupid crap that happened ages ago. So, ya know, chicken or the egg?

[Chaos Theory]

3 hours ago, dippydee said:

Me too. I've always been a Veronica fan from the comics but I really like what they've done with the show Betty she has a sweetness that's matched with enough of the barely repressed crazy which makes her really fun. I think the actress is doing a great job with it too. She's my favourite character (along with Mama Cooper). All of which makes me pray they keep her away from simpering after Archie because they got a gem in her and I don't want to see the show waste it.

Perfect definition of Betty and why I think she is so far the best character on the show.  Then again I love me the crazy (oh sorry the barely repressed crazy) chicks.  

Plus her mom is awesome!!!!!!

[pagooey]

Quote

Ok, now to get back to my adult office job because I am an over-30 adult who shouldn’t be so consumed by this, dammit.

This made me LOL at MY grown-ass-lady office job.

This show is trying to be so many things at once--teen melodrama omg the talent show!!1!, murder mystery procedural, batshit bonkers Twin Peaks homage--that it's not really hitting any of its landings clean...and yet I can't stop watching it. I don't know...gloomy, Troubled Teen Jughead, WHOSE NAME IS JUGHEAD, pushes all of my inner-16-year-old's buttons. 

And we are always who we are, I guess: seeing lanky, dour Jughead and pretty, practical Betty, sprinting around the woods in a BC downpour solvin' crimes? Oh my god, SWOOOOON. My shipper bona fides go way, way back.

[CabotCove]

Will Veronica be a Pussycat or that was just a one episode thing?

[maxineofarc]

5 minutes ago, pagooey said:

 Jughead, WHOSE NAME IS JUGHEAD, pushes all of my inner-16-year-old's buttons.

Due to the comprehensive knowledge of Archie comics that until this show came on I had NO IDEA I HAD, I can tell you his name is not Jughead.

Spoiler

It's Forsythe.

Edited March 3, 2017 by maxineofarc

[tennisgurl]

Also, it just struck me that teens Archie, Veronica, and Josie not only had to sit through an super awkward dinner with their parents, they were ALSO forced to spend the night sitting through a construction plan presentation! Isn't that how all teens want to spend their free time?  I'm assuming they spent the whole presentation willing themselves not to grab their phones and start live tweeting or something.

[dippydee]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

Perfect definition of Betty and why I think she is so far the best character on the show.  Then again I love me the crazy (oh sorry the barely repressed crazy) chicks. 

 

Lol! Layered crazy is definitely my jam. I like that she's sweet and kind and genuinely empathetic but clearly given her parentage and "full dark, no stars" Betty from episode 3 she's probably about 5 minutes away from a full breakdown and/or finally stabbing Mama Cooper. 

Quote

Plus her mom is awesome!!!!!!

That she is! By far my favourite adult on the show. That delicious cackle at the thought of her husband having the balls to murder somebody made me love her for life. Does that make me terrible?

Edited March 3, 2017 by dippydee

[indiscutable]

6 hours ago, Cookie1981 said:

Jughead has a sort of grungy cuteness that I enjoy so I love him being paired with Betty's perky preppy smart girl but I had to rewind when they kissed....was there some other moment in the show where they had enough sexual tension to justify that?? It came out of nowhere to me even though my little shipper heart did a fist pump. I took Betty's look up at the loudspeaker and then leaving in hot pursuit of her own storyline as making the choice for herself/sister/the mystery and maybe a little towards Jughead. I'm sure Archie will feel a twinge of jealousy if they get together (she was into that kiss as far as I could tell) and she will be conflicted (because duh I've watched TV before) but I'm interested to see how it pans out. They aren't nearly as angst ridden as my usual preferences but I love their simpler chemistry and Cole is more my speed than AJ look wise. I'm glad he is twenty something in real life otherwise...yuck. 

 

I think that there was a lot of subtle build up at least to Jughead being interested in Betty. In episode 4 Jughead asks for movie suggestions and he goes with Betty's Rebel Without a Cause choice. Last week he acted jealous when Betty went on a "date" for the investigation. He was also very quick to shut Archie down when Archie asked if he could help with the Polly mission--wanted to keep things just Betty and him. 

[iMonrey]

I think Polly killed Jason and that's why her parents have her locked up, so nobody will find out. I think they're right and she went crazy and found out Jason was going to run off without her. The drugs in the car are probably just a red herring, or maybe Betty's parents planted them to frame Jason and get him arrested.

If Val knew all along that Josie's father was an asshole why did she act so surprised by her diva act? It's like a light bulb went off when she found out Josie's dad was in town but if this is why Josie acts that way and Val knows it then her behavior shouldn't have taken her by surprise.

[yellowfred]

10 minutes ago, indiscutable said:

He was also very quick to shut Archie down when Archie asked if he could help with the Polly mission--wanted to keep things just Betty and him. 

That could also be an indication that he realizes Archie's kind of useless.

1 hour ago, maxineofarc said:

Due to the comprehensive knowledge of Archie comics that until this show came on I had NO IDEA I HAD, I can tell you his name is not Jughead.

  Hide contents

It's Forsythe.

If that ever comes up in conversation, Archie's mind is gonna be completely blown.

[pagooey]

Quote

Due to the comprehensive knowledge of Archie comics that until this show came on I had NO IDEA I HAD, I can tell you his name is not Jughead.

maxineofarc, that's a deep pull. And now that I know it, I'm sure to remember it on my deathbed...while forgetting the names of my entire family. 

[Chaos Theory]

Betty is one of those characters one bad day away from killing someone.  Hey at least then her mom would respect her.  

Edited March 3, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[maxineofarc]

9 minutes ago, pagooey said:

maxineofarc, that's a deep pull. And now that I know it, I'm sure to remember it on my deathbed...while forgetting the names of my entire family. 

It's taking up space in my brain that could be used for something useful, but someday I'm going to go on Jeopardy! and I'm going to KILL IT.

Spoiler

Jellybean's name is Forsythia.

[Dee]

It's weird none of Jughead's friends know about his situation. I can understand Archie not knowing, to an extent, because obliviousness is his trademark. But Betty, who like Archie, has presumably been friends with him since childhood & currently works closely with him also doesn't know; to say nothing of nosy Veronica, drama loving Kevin or snotty Cheryl.

Ashleigh Murray said, in an interview, that Josie and Cheryl are 'professional friends,' so I think referring to them as best friends is jumping the gun. Josie was noticeably absent from Jason's wake, and Cheryl wasn't around to comfort Josie this week, so I'd say AM's description of their friendship is pretty spot on.

I hope Veronica remains a Pussycat. She brings a nice energy to the group & she and Josie spark well together. Veronica constantly has to reassure Betty and walk on eggshells around Cheryl, so it would be nice for her to have a friend where the relationship is more equitable.

How is Archie so bland when KJ Apa has so much personality in real life? Still, it feels like the writers are keeping Archie as 'normal' as possible, to balance out the rest of the craziness of the show.

[Oscirus]

7 hours ago, MV007 said:

continue to be baffled by what they're doing with the main triangle we know will eventually come.  Why aren't those three interacting more.  Veronica and Archie are developing a nice friendship but its seems like a really slow burn.  I expected that triangle to be a bigger part of the show.

  While the show hasn't put it in the forefront, they have acknowledged it repeatedly.

I'd argue that it's developing fairly well. Archie and Betty already have history so there's no reason to develop those two further just yet. Now that Archie and Veronica are finally starting to develop, it'll start to pick up. With Archie and Veronica clearly liking each other and  Betty clearly pining for Archie, the only factor left is for Archie to see Betty in a romantic way. Which will likely happen once Archie gets involved into the main story line, if the beginning of the episode and next week's previews are any indication, I suspect that should be happening fairly soon. 

I think it'll be ronnie-archie-val and archie-betty-jughead turning into the main triangle.

 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I do hope he gets a little more involved in the mystery at some point though.

I predict his curiosity about what Jug and Betty was talking about foreshadows his near future involvement into the investigations. Especially now that he's managed to conquer the demon that was his music.

 

24 minutes ago, Dee said:

I hope Veronica remains a Pussycat. She brings a nice energy to the group & she and Josie spark well together

I don't see it. I don't really think that Veronica brings anything new to the pussycats.  Her being out there was just a case of Josie not being as oblivious/rude as Archie was.

[ketose]

18 hours ago, MarkHB said:

I am just satisfied that Melody isn't the "dumb blonde" (who usually backed into solving the mystery) she was in the comics and cartoons.

Also: the classic logo on the drumset, with the cat-silhouette backdrop!  And Kevin even out-tro'd them by saying "Long tails, and ears for hats!"

There's one mystery solved for me. I never did know what the second line of that song was.

 

12 hours ago, starri said:

It reminded me of Stride Gum on Smallville.

Ah, Product-Placement Pete. Corporate America misses you.

 

52 minutes ago, Dee said:

It's weird none of Jughead's friends know about his situation. I can understand Archie not knowing, to an extent, because obliviousness is his trademark. But Betty, who like Archie, has presumably been friends with him since childhood & currently works closely with him also doesn't know; to say nothing of nosy Veronica, drama loving Kevin or snotty Cheryl.

Ashleigh Murray said, in an interview, that Josie and Cheryl are 'professional friends,' so I think referring to them as best friends is jumping the gun. Josie was noticeably absent from Jason's wake, and Cheryl wasn't around to comfort Josie this week, so I'd say AM's description of their friendship is pretty spot on.

I hope Veronica remains a Pussycat. She brings a nice energy to the group & she and Josie spark well together. Veronica constantly has to reassure Betty and walk on eggshells around Cheryl, so it would be nice for her to have a friend where the relationship is more equitable.

How is Archie so bland when KJ Apa has so much personality in real life? Still, it feels like the writers are keeping Archie as 'normal' as possible, to balance out the rest of the craziness of the show.

In the first episode, there was an implication that Archie and Jughead had some sort of falling out, but they might have dropped it because it could make Archie interesting. And why wouldn't Jughead use his real name? It seems to fit a brooding author.

[dippydee]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

How is Archie so bland when KJ Apa has so much personality in real life? Still, it feels like the writers are keeping Archie as 'normal' as possible, to balance out the rest of the craziness of the show.

It's the curse of being the lead. Personally, the only shows where the actual lead has been my favourite character on the show were Buffy and Veronica Mars. Usually I prefer the snarky sidekicks.

In Archie's case though, he's seems especially milquetoast given how interesting almost everyone else on the show seems to be, especially Betty/Jughead/Ronnie/all the parents except Fred. I guess it is in keeping with the comics though because comic Archie tends to be just as bland.

Edited March 3, 2017 by dippydee

[Anna Yolei]

If Polly is crazy, it's from all the shit she's been put through by her parents.

Archie is still boring, but I don't mind him with Val. I'm kinda glad they didn't spend most of season one about the triangle that will have to be addressed. If TPTB never touch upon that I really would not be upset,tbh...but that said, I'm more #TeamRonnie at this point. I like her calling Archie out on his obliviousness, and anyone who does that is okay in my book.

I need a scorecard to rank the parents and their various levels of fail.

Yay for Buggy/Bughead/Jetty/whatever fandom is calling it. I'm gonna call it Sluethshipping :p But poor Juggy when Betty barely gives the kiss a thought as she goes on about the car. 

I love this show...it's so off thewalli fun that I just go with the flow. I hope it gets a second season.

[jay741982]

14 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think Polly killed Jason and that's why her parents have her locked up, so nobody will find out. I think they're right and she went crazy and found out Jason was going to run off without her. The drugs in the car are probably just a red herring, or maybe Betty's parents planted them to frame Jason and get him arrested.

If Val knew all along that Josie's father was an asshole why did she act so surprised by her diva act? It's like a light bulb went off when she found out Josie's dad was in town but if this is why Josie acts that way and Val knows it then her behavior shouldn't have taken her by surprise.

Considering  Alice and Hals track record I'm not taking any fucking thing they say as fact about Polly. They hated Jason over something completely stupid. If Polly is even a little bonkers it's cause they are horrible parents WHO LOCKED UP THEIR DAUGHTER cause OH THE HORROR Their Daughter has a Blossom in her belly. Not to forget Alice's irrational hatred of Bettys friends 

Edited March 4, 2017 by jay741982

[Miss Dee]

To those admitting they've been into Betty/Jughead since they were a kid/teen reading the comics: MY PEOPLE! I'M NOT ALONE ANYMORE! *weeps*

Interestingly, I was kind of digging how Archie was leading this normal teen drama storyline in the middle of our Gothic Sleuthing Plot; I do like that juxtaposition and get a kick out of it. Until Jughead kissed Betty. I like you, Archie, but if you break up Betty and Jughead I'm gonna have to go all Jason's killer on your ass. 

[Sakura12]

14 hours ago, yellowfred said:

Okay, serious question:  what, exactly, did Archie think Josie's real name was?  I can only imagine the look of abject betrayal on his face when he finds out that Betty's real name is Elizabeth.

What else can really go with Josie? I'm going to think Archie's just dumb. Hey, it's a personality. He's still boring though. I do like him with Val. I still don't get his appeal. He's not that amazing. 

Polly was acting a little cray, but with Alice has her mother I don't see how she wouldn't be. The pregnant thing was pretty easy to guess but what is this the 50's, do places like that still exist? Is there some kind of prize to be the worst parent in Riverdale? Did Archie's dad and Kevin's dad just not get the memo. Walking out on your daughters performance is cold. 

I'm still enjoying the Betty and Jughead mystery hour. The kiss was kind of sudden but I do like their chemistry. I don't really ship anymore because that always ends badly. 

I loved seeing comic Veronica come out to play for a bit. When she's hurt she lashes out. I liked her joining the Pussycats and then owning the strut down the hallway. 

[maxineofarc]

4 hours ago, ketose said:

In the first episode, there was an implication that Archie and Jughead had some sort of falling out, but they might have dropped it because it could make Archie interesting. And why wouldn't Jughead use his real name? It seems to fit a brooding author.

Archie was supposed to go on a road trip with Jughead over July 4th, and bailed so he could bang Ms. Grundy (although Jughead didn't know why at the time and it didn't sound like Archie offered any explanation at all), and this apparently was the cause of the fight.

I'm thinking he's just been called "Jughead" for so long he sort of owns it now. I'm guessing his real name might come up next week when he's dealing with Skeet, but if they go with comics continuity, he's always hated it. You would have to, to prefer "Jughead."

[Honey Bear]

I appreciate Archie's storyline because it's a whiff of normalcy in the madness of Riverdale. K.J. Apa is perfect because he seems to have good chemistry with practically everyone which is an important trait of Archie being the everyman. I'm happy for the Archie and Valerie hookup. It's nice nod to their comic roots as a couple. Sadly, given Archie's nature, it won't last. (Down the line, I'm wishing for Archie/Veronica to be the grand romance of the series.) 

I'm glad that Josie finally got some focus. I can totally commiserate with her. Her story brought back some painful memories (that makes her Dad look like a Saint).  

The Coopers (Alice and Hal) are creepy as all get-out! Polly doesn't seem quite right either. She's madly in love with Jason -- emphasis on mad!  I feel sorry and scared for Betty.  

While I'm rooting for Bughead, the execution seemed off; like a crucial intermediary scene was missing. They went from point A to point C. Since the episode's theme was fear, I guess Jughead impetuously kissed Betty out of fear of losing her. Polly losing her chance at happiness with Jason might've encouraged Jughead to make his move. Well, one of my fears about Bughead may have been hinted at. Betty's mind still focused on the mystery after the kiss doesn't bode well. Supposedly, when it's a kiss of true love, afterwards you won't remember what you were thinking about previously. Heck, you probably won't even remember your own name! My money's on Betty still harboring feelings for Archie, considering him to be her one true love. I think she'll go along with Jughead as a (temp) bf due to the notion that's it's better to be with someone than no one.  

I'm also concerned about Dark Betty coming out to play with Jughead. Although, Juggie would be the one person least likely to object to D-Bets pouring maple syrup all over him. That'll be a dream come true!

----------------

Sorry for the edit, but I wanted to add: The werewolf mask in Archie's dresser and his fear manifesting as a werewolf football team might be a reference to the Archie's Weird Mysteries episode Fleas Release Me.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Honey Bear
Remembered a reference

[Bruinsfan]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

What else can really go with Josie? I'm going to think Archie's just dumb. Hey, it's a personality. He's still boring though. I do like him with Val. I still don't get his appeal. He's not that amazing.

I get his appeal, but unfortunately they kept his shirt on over it for the whole episode.

[Free]

6 hours ago, dippydee said:

How is Archie so bland when KJ Apa has so much personality in real life? Still, it feels like the writers are keeping Archie as 'normal' as possible, to balance out the rest of the craziness of the show.

The problem is that in doing so, Archie feels more isolated compared to the rest of the cast whereas the rest of them at least have something more productive going on story and/or character wise.  Archie's storylines so far have been his music (which hasn't been interesting) and relationship drama (which feels underwhelming when compared to other teen dramas).

[angora]

This is probably the best I've liked Archie so far.  Even though "high school variety show" doesn't have the sizzle of "1950s shame convent for pregnant teens, mysterious cars owned by murdered teens and filled with drugs, and mom who laughs uproariously at the thought of her husband having the balls to kill someone," not by a long shot, it helped a lot that he was in a plot with multiple other members of the cast (true, I thought Valerie, Veronica, and Josie's parts of the story were all more interesting than his, but baby steps.)  Archie tends to feel like his plots are off floating by themselves somewhere, and putting him with a variety of other characters was sorely needed.

On the variety show front, nice to get some character development for both Josie and Val (still holding out on Silent Mel.)  While Josie's dad is definitely much worse, another one putting in his bid for the Riverdale's Worst Parents countdown list, Josie's mom is doing a number on her, too, and that's before you even take the shadiness and bribery into account.  I agree with whoever said upthread that Josie's ultra-diva behavior should've probably been a tip-off to Valerie that Josie's dad was coming to town, but I did like that Val immediately understood once she heard that Miles was around, and that she was open to reconciliation if not surrender (she still gave in way too easily, though - if Val is the band's chief source for songwriting, Josie should recognize her value.)  As Jughead said, everyone's parents are crazy, and it was a nice moment to underline the history between Valerie and Josie that she didn't need any further explanation.

Not my favorite episode for Veronica, but I think she did okay considering everything she was dealing with.  I got why she was lashing out (crazy parents AGAIN,) and even though it wasn't fair of her to take it out on Archie/Valerie/Josie at different times throughout the episode, it was a relatable, very human reaction of trying to wrest back the control she felt she was losing over her life.  Plus, she was quite her fierce self when she was doing it - loved that shot of her gliding down the hall with Josie and Melody in her cat ears.  Plus, pairing her narratively with Josie gave her someone new to spark with.  As with Archie, I think this was Josie's best showing to date, and while the character development is a major part of that, putting her with Veronica did wonders for her, too.

Even if Polly being pregnant wasn't a big surprise, I like what they did with that whole plot.  The creepy anachronistic shame convent offered great visuals and ambience, and I appreciated that they dropped enough hints that "pregnant" and "crazy" aren't necessarily mutually exclusive in Polly's case (after the way her parents have treated her, I wouldn't blaming her for snapping a little.)  The scene between Betty and Polly was great - I felt for both of them, but I was also so happy that they could see one another again for at least a little while.  And throughout, Alice claimed that top Riverdale's Worst Parent spot.  I know I'll probably waver between her and Mama Blossom when she shows up again, but for now, Alice is just fabulously terrible.  When Jughead was over at the Coopers, I love how she said his name so derisively and as often as she could, like she didn't want to waste any opportunity to inject every single judgment she has of him as a person in those two syllables.  Madchen Amick is fantastic in this role.

As for the Betty/Jughead of it all... I could've gone either way with these two, friends or romance.  Jughead (the comic, not the character) is the only comic I buy issue by issue, and that's down to Jughead's asexuality, so I would've been thrilled with an ace Jughead being sleuth best friends with Betty, and even if he wasn't ace, a great friendship still would've been lovely (not that this has technically ruled it out - he might be a romantic asexual, and/or he hasn't figured out his sexuality yet.)  But I saw enough hints leaning toward romance that it worked for me.  I don't mind that it wasn't a slower burn of friendship-to-romance because, for me, I think their friendship was already very well established.  From their first significant scene together, Betty has been calling him "Juggie," they've obviously through through a lot together recently, and there's just an easy companionability in their body language, dialogue, and the looks they give each other in their scenes together.  I don't need them to make declarations of "you're my best friend" or "we've known each other since kindergarten" to make me believe that they've been good friends for a long time.

I actually liked "the car!"  Rather than taking it as Betty being disinterested, I think it's just that she understandably has a ton on her mind right now and is putting murder mystery/insane levels of family drama before anything else.  And Jughead's reaction was telling to me.  He was mildly annoyed at first, but as soon as Betty explained about the car, he was right with her going, "Oh shit - we've gotta get this DONE."  (BTW, I imagine this was probably the first Jughead knew of anything that went down other than seeing a pregnant Polly confront Alice about Jason's death - you just know Alice threw Betty in the car, drove her home, and locked her in her room, leaving Jughead to take the bus back to town.)  Both of them were in action mode for the rest of the episode, but I think that just shows where their priorities are right now and, more importantly, that putting them together romantically hopefully won't mess up their dynamic.  The indication I got was that Betty/Jughead as a couple are going to run around investigating mysteries and being awesome just like Betty-Jughead as friends do, that it's not going to be some hard shift to all stale, moony-eyed romance drama all the time.  That's always my biggest concern with a friendship pairing that I really like - too often, it seems like turning to romance gives the writers license to write them much more generically, not nearly as interesting as they were as friends - and if Riverdale screws up what Betty and Jughead have, I'm gonna need to have WORDS with someone.  But this moment at least seems to show that the writers get where the good stuff is with these two.

And the bit at the school where Betty stopped to look at the loudspeaker when she heard Archie singing?  I know the smart money says it's proof that the triangle is far from dead and Betty/Jughead is destined to end in tears, but I'm very firmly ignoring that.  For now, I'm sticking with the fanwank that it's a moment of realization for Betty.  Not too long ago, Archie having stage fright would've been the most important thing happening in her day, and here she was now only just noticing that she'd missed all that.  A little wistful maybe, because it can be tough to discover that you and the things that matter to you are changing, but she didn't stop; she had her moment, and then she got back to it.  That's my fantasy, and I'm sticking to it until the writers force me to admit otherwise.

[imakicola]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think Polly killed Jason and that's why her parents have her locked up, so nobody will find out. I think they're right and she went crazy and found out Jason was going to run off without her. The drugs in the car are probably just a red herring, or maybe Betty's parents planted them to frame Jason and get him arrested.

If Val knew all along that Josie's father was an asshole why did she act so surprised by her diva act? It's like a light bulb went off when she found out Josie's dad was in town but if this is why Josie acts that way and Val knows it then her behavior shouldn't have taken her by surprise.

If Polly's story is accurate, Polly would have had to have broken out of the place to kill Jason because she was supposed to meet him July 4 when he ran away but she got committed that very night...and Jason died over a week later 

Edited March 4, 2017 by imakicola

[xqueenfrostine]

On 3/2/2017 at 9:22 PM, jay741982 said:

Good Lord almost all the parents in this show are horrible. Alice and Hal are crazy. Josie's dad is a asshole, her mom THE MAYOR is a criminal along with Veronica's parents. The Blossoms are Are also Horrible. 

Another very good episode tonight. The theory that Polly is Pregant is true, wonder where she went and are we to believe she set that car on fire?

I'm convinced that Good Dad Fred is at least half the reason Archie is the most boring person on the show.  Struggle builds character both in real life and in fiction, and Archie doesn't seem to have much of that in his life.  

And no, I don't think Polly was the one who set the car on fire.  Whoever set the car on fire was clearly watching Betty and Jughead in the woods, and I think Polly would have spoken to her sister rather than hung back had she been the one there.  Especially since Betty's proven herself as an ally to Polly and was clearly ready to break her sister out of the convent against the wishes of their parents.  

 

On 3/2/2017 at 10:22 PM, Lady Calypso said:

 Alice laughing about Hal killing Jason makes me feel more convinced that he did it. I now won't be surprised if it's revealed that he did.  

It did the opposite for me.  The half-amusement, half-disgust in Alice's voice when she said Hal didn't have the stomach to kill Jason clinched it for me.  That seemed too real to be faked.  I supposed it's possible that Hal killed Jason and Alice just isn't aware of it, but the way they've behaved so far makes it seem to me that he'd rely on his wife to help cover up the crime if he was the killer.  He just doesn't seem like he could pull it off by himself.  

I could see Alice as a stone cold killer though.

 

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think Polly killed Jason and that's why her parents have her locked up, so nobody will find out. I think they're right and she went crazy and found out Jason was going to run off without her. The drugs in the car are probably just a red herring, or maybe Betty's parents planted them to frame Jason and get him arrested.

Wouldn't fit the timeline.  While I do think it's possible that Polly's a little crazy and a bit of an unreliable narrator, the fact that the show went out of its way to actually show us the flashback of Hal and Alice shipping Polly off to the convent the morning of July 4th makes me inclined to believe that that really happened.  

8 hours ago, Oscirus said:

I don't see it. I don't really think that Veronica brings anything new to the pussycats.  Her being out there was just a case of Josie not being as oblivious/rude as Archie was.

I agree.  While Veronica's cute on stage, she doesn't add anything to the group musically.  She doesn't write songs, she doesn't play instruments, and it remains to be seen how well she can actually sing (I'm a little suspicious since we never heard her sing alongside Archie and her voice was lost among the Pussycats).  Plus I can't imagine Josie continuing to put up with Veronica's rude-as-hell texting during band practice.  She may like Veronica as a friend, but she's too serious about her music to put up with that bullshit.

[starri]

7 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

I'm thinking he's just been called "Jughead" for so long he sort of owns it now. I'm guessing his real name might come up next week when he's dealing with Skeet, but if they go with comics continuity, he's always hated it. You would have to, to prefer "Jughead."

If my other choices were Forsythe and Pendleton, I'd go by Jughead too.

[jay741982]

1 hour ago, starri said:

If my other choices were Forsythe and Pendleton, I'd go by Jughead too.

Same here 

 

3 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

I'm convinced that Good Dad Fred is at least half the reason Archie is the most boring person on the show.  Struggle builds character both in real life and in fiction, and Archie doesn't seem to have much of that in his life.  

And no, I don't think Polly was the one who set the car on fire.  Whoever set the car on fire was clearly watching Betty and Jughead in the woods, and I think Polly would have spoken to her sister rather than hung back had she been the one there.  Especially since Betty's proven herself as an ally to Polly and was clearly ready to break her sister out of the convent against the wishes of their parents.  

 

It did the opposite for me.  The half-amusement, half-disgust in Alice's voice when she said Hal didn't have the stomach to kill Jason clinched it for me.  That seemed too real to be faked.  I supposed it's possible that Hal killed Jason and Alice just isn't aware of it, but the way they've behaved so far makes it seem to me that he'd rely on his wife to help cover up the crime if he was the killer.  He just doesn't seem like he could pull it off by himself.  

I could see Alice as a stone cold killer though.

 

Wouldn't fit the timeline.  While I do think it's possible that Polly's a little crazy and a bit of an unreliable narrator, the fact that the show went out of its way to actually show us the flashback of Hal and Alice shipping Polly off to the convent the morning of July 4th makes me inclined to believe that that really happened.  

I agree.  While Veronica's cute on stage, she doesn't add anything to the group musically.  She doesn't write songs, she doesn't play instruments, and it remains to be seen how well she can actually sing (I'm a little suspicious since we never heard her sing alongside Archie and her voice was lost among the Pussycats).  Plus I can't imagine Josie continuing to put up with Veronica's rude-as-hell texting during band practice.  She may like Veronica as a friend, but she's too serious about her music to put up with that bullshit.

I don't believe Polly set the car on fire. It was one of the Blossoms OR Alice/Hal. Like I said I don't trust Alice or Hal at all. They continue to lie and Try to Make Betty see her sister as bonkers who's to say Alice wouldn't lie some more and shut down Betty thinking her dad killed Jason? In the same scene she basically accused her Baby girl of being nutty! God I hope Betty gets far away from her parents when she turns 18 

[Tiger]

11 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I get his appeal, but unfortunately they kept his shirt on over it for the whole episode.

Am I the only one bored with seeing Archie shirtless and think that KJ actually looks better in real life in his Insta pictures where he's obviously in great shape but isn't super cut? 

Also, with the way the fauxGrundy story was resolved and recent real world events like that Milo guy and George Takei approving the sexualization of younger boys older by older gay men, I'm really skeeved out at the whole notion of 'come look at this jacked 15 yr old'. Yes I know KJ is 19 but Archie is 15 and its weird.  

[peachmangosteen]

On 3/3/2017 at 10:11 AM, MV007 said:

I expected that triangle to be a bigger part of the show.

I did too, but boy am I glad it's not. I hope they leave the triangle alone this whole season so that I at least get one season of fully loving this show.

22 hours ago, AdorkableSars said:

Ok, now to get back to my adult office job because I am an over-30 adult who shouldn’t be so consumed by this, dammit.

I'm glad there are over-30's who are as obsessed with this show as I am! It makes me feel slightly less embarrassed.

19 hours ago, pagooey said:

I don't know...gloomy, Troubled Teen Jughead, WHOSE NAME IS JUGHEAD, pushes all of my inner-16-year-old's buttons. 

Ugh, right! If this show was airing when I was a teen I shudder to imagine how insane I would be over Jughead since I am pretty crazy about it at 32 lol!

13 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Is there some kind of prize to be the worst parent in Riverdale? Did Archie's dad and Kevin's dad just not get the memo. 

I think Archie's dad did, what with him macking on his kid's new friend's mom who is married while he's also married, but he just severely underestimated just how straight-up horrible and/or crazy all the other parents are.

[feverfew]

I watched the first episode of Riverdale when it premiered, but thought A.J. Kapa is annoyingly stiff in the role, the pop-culture quips will get tired really fast, and  I hatehatehate love triangles, so I quit. But someone with good taste recommended I tried again, and I'm really happy I did! Betty's my new favourite, the mix of Twin Peaks/Veronica Mars/Dawson's Creek (although I definitely lean more toward the former) is my jam, and I'm already a little bit in love with Jughead.

That said:

On 3/3/2017 at 6:01 AM, Miss Dee said:

Dammit, dammit, dammit. Ringing the bell on Betty/Jug this early means it's not going to go anywhere. And Jug initiated it, which is worse! He's going to get his heart broken when Betty - who started thinking of cars when he kissed her and who looked angstily at the loudspeaker in school while Archie sang -  jumps at the chance to pine for Archie some more. Archie, the golden boy who's so wonderful people actually applaud him as he walks down the halls! MOTHERFORKING SHIRT, I AM NOT HERE FOR THIS.

Ugg. No. Don't want. They go down that road, I'll be out faster than you can say Pretty Little Liars. (Kudos for a well-used The Good Place-ism, @Miss Dee) Please, show, do like Dawson's Creek and go where the chemistry leads you.

I like this show. I want to continue liking this show. Obviously the course of true love never [...] run smooth (I tiny-squeed at Jughead paraphrasing Shakespeare for Betty), so I'll allow a bit of ship-stall etc, but only a small amount.

 

Ooof, that off my chest, I still have no idea who killed Jason. I had this theory of mom-and-dad-Cooper individually suspecting each other/Polly/Betty and obstructing the police in a misguided attempt to protect each other, but I don't know now. Alice Cooper might be a very good actress - or she might not be. I still hope that Polly'll turn out more than a little unhinged; I think her mannerism was completely off at the Asylum of Our Most Malevolent Sisters and I atually thought Betty's parents would reveal that Polly wasn't pregnant at all, but that it was part of her delusions. Or she had been pregnant, but aborted. I just think something like that would have made Betty's fear of being crazy more realistic, if something other than (insane) parental control was the cause of her commitment.

I'm also still on the VC Andrews-ish train when it comes to the Blossom-family. Something's clearly in the Sweetwater since all the parents are bonkers.

[imakicola]

In my opinion it definitely isn't a cooper.

In my experience, when a tv show centers around a mystery that's supposed to last the entire season, they always try to make you think it's all these other people who killed the person first before revealing who it actually was, and the person who it actually was usually is a surprise. Think Ian or Toby from Pretty Little Liars. We aren't even halfway into the season yet so for them to be Laying all this groundwork this early for Hal or Alice Cooper if they're going to be revealed as the killers all the way at the end of the season seems off. Especially since Alice was always the obvious person because of her comments literally in the first minute of the show. Yeah usually in my opinion the show just tries to distract you with all these false alarms so they can get to the end of the season while giving tons of information but the pertinent stuff not to the end. But I think all the information surrounding Jason is just going to get more and more complicated, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.