S02.E10: We Can Be Heroes

[Tara Ariano]

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Supergirl sets out to recapture Livewire, who has seemingly escaped from prison, but her efforts hit a road block when Mon-El puts Supergirl's safety before the citizens of National City. Meanwhile, James decides to be truthful with Kara; and M'Gann falls into a coma following a psychic attack.

[Primal Slayer]

The best thing about this episode was the twist with Livewire. Her side commentary was great once James and Mon-El showed up.

I swear these writers are trying to make us hate James, him being annoyed by Mon-El wanting to suit up was lame. I would be on James' side if they hadn't made him into such a glory hog. But his whole "I am more Guardian then James", stop ripping off Batman. But they have Kara totally forget that Alex is involved in plenty of these big fights and she is a human.

Kara finding out that James was Guardian followed by everyone "I told him to tell you" but they totally had Alex leave out  the fact that James was willing to tell her but she told him not to. 

I hope they stop with the slow motion fighting, it is just cheesy and doesnt make things look better. 

I really need to them to address James/Winn just dumping their jobs whenever evil calls, James is supposed to be running CatCo, does he not have meetings to go to? Is he missed that easily? And what does Winn do all day at the DEO? Which by the way, can this not become the hangout for Kara and Alex's friends/significant other?

[StarBrand]

I thought it was a neat swerve to actually have Livewire being the victim. Have to admit I didn't see that coming.

Of course Mon-El remembered the kiss. That should surprise absolutely no one. Although Kara's reaction makes it seem (for now) that she doesn't reciprocate.

Sanvers had two scenes together-it was nice actually just having them interact with no hint of angst or drama after last week...

[Oreo2234]

This episode was more coherent than the last one and Livewire is always a fun villain. I don't really buy that she can actually kill Supergirl though. IIRC Kara was fine after she was hit by the big lightning strike that created livewire and The Flash's lightning did nothing to her. Unless  Liwewire being created through Kara gives her some special ability to hurt Supergirl.

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But they have Kara totally forget that Alex is involved in plenty of these big fights and she is a human.

I was hoping somebody would point that out.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Oreo2234

[stealinghome]

This episode was a real mixed bag for me, and as usual it was way, way overstuffed. The plotting was kind of terrible but the character beats were actually quite good. A lot to digest....

First, J'onn and Kara and Alex's scene, where he was all "stay with me," was so lovely. Space Family for the win! I'm glad the writing occasionally remembers that that OT3 was the best part of S1. I really liked M'gann and J'onn in this episode; it was too quickly done, granted, but their relationship just tugged at my heartstrings. And I totally called that J'onn would do the Vulcan mind-meld Martian mental bond to save her, and then forgive M'gann once he saw her regret and guilt and pain, so five for past stealinghome. I also like that it was Alex who talked some sense into J'onn. She's so good at that. (Speaking of Alex, she didn't have much to do this episode, but she and Maggie were adorable. 'Bout time they got to just be cute and fluffy and angst-free. Vegan ice cream, though, Maggie???)

The tangled Kara/James/Mon-El triangle is less interesting to me, but at least didn't make me want to stab daggers into my eyes tonight, so...progress. I really liked Kara and James' showdown in the lab, because it generally felt very true to both characters and they both are right and wrong at the same time, so it feels true to life. Also I...kind of found myself cheering for James saying that Mon-El isn't a hero (I know, I know), even as I was irritated by the self-serving nature of a lot of what James was saying. Meanwhile, I like that Kara finally sees that Mon-El doesn't actually want to be a hero, what he wants is to work with/impress her; however, it would've had more of an impact if Mon-El hadn't basically been demonstrating that all.damn.season. I feel like the show keeps giving Kara and Mon-El the same wash-rinse-repeat plot in every episode. Mon-El proves he isn't hero material, Kara is shocked, shocked, SHOCKED, and they...do it all over again next episode. Can we get off the hamster wheel already? At this point I'm hoping they're building up to Mon-El heroically sacrificing himself at the end of the season, because otherwise this is maddening.

Not excited for Kara and Mon-El setting sail, and I'm still waiting for this show to give her a storyline that isn't reacting to what the men in her life are doing, ffs. The show IS still called Supergirl, right? Mon-El and Kara's last scene was decently acted and written, but I still don't see a ton of chemistry there, and more importantly, I just can't see Kara ever getting with anyone who isn't truly a hero in some fashion. I thought Melissa Benoist played the end scene really ambiguously and really well, though....

I kind of want Livewire to live in all of Kara's electronics and make really snarky comments to her 24/7 about her life decisions. Frenemy 4 lyfe! I wasn't high on Livewire last season but she was delightful here, and I agree that the "she's the victim" sweve was nice. However, Kara (and Winn) were way too freaked out about Livewire's escape--she was far from the biggest Big Bad they had last season and Kara wasn't nearly as frantic about her last season--but I did love Kara being like "Clark makes having a nemesis seem fun! But it's not!"

Definitely better than last episode, some poor plotting aside. Still wish the show wouldn't insist on overstuffing each episode by 20%, though.

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But they have Kara totally forget that Alex is involved in plenty of these big fights and she is a human.

I don't disagree, but I can also fanwank that Kara knows Alex is a) highly trained, b) has Supergirl PLUS the DEO for backup, and c) is her big sister/personal superhero so she just kind of rolls with the fact that Alex is the baddest badass ever. :)

Edited January 31, 2017 by stealinghome

[betweenthebanter]

I liked this episode a lot.

I love whenever we get a Kara/J'onn/Alex family scene. I also enjoyed the drama of Kara finding out what James/Winn are doing. I didn't like where they left off that storyline though. I completely understand Kara not wanting her friends to put themselves in danger, but I feel like she is going to regret completely removing herself from what they are doing.

Even when Mon-El has some charming moments,  part of the reason I haven't started liking him yet is because he is given too much unnecessary screentime  imo. Wherever Kara goes you can most likely count on Mon-El being there too, and it just makes me get really annoyed.

I couldn't remember why Livewire reached nemesis status, over any of the other villains that Kara faced in previous episodes, but they sold me on it at the end of that storyline.

[sugarbaker design]

So M'Gann has been imprisoned for weeks, with no due process, just because Jonn says so?!  The gang needs a civics lesson.

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

Mon-El and Kara's last scene was decently acted and written, but I still don't see a ton of chemistry there, and more importantly, I just can't see Kara ever getting with anyone who isn't truly a hero in some fashion. I thought Melissa Benoist played the end scene really ambiguously and really well, though....

I am still holding out for them to make Winn/Mon-El gay together.

[Artsda]

Mon-El and Kara's last scene was great, he's a good addition. Funny and a good character. 

If James is so into saving people, why doesn't he sign up to be a cop? Someone in law enforcement.  He doesn't seem to get he's not a super hero because he decides to be. Superman/Supergirl/Mon-El have powers, he does not. 

[bmoore4026]

I am so sick of the Kara/Jimmy/Mon-El love triangle already.  At least Mon-El brings the funny.  I don't give a fuck about Jimmy.

The scenes with J'onn and M'Gann were very well acted.  And he forgave her.  Yay!!!  But the White Martians are coming.  Boo!!!

[Lantern7]

"See you tomorrow morning?" "Sure." "Before I forget . . . is it against Earth rules to go to the rooftop and abuse myself while crying?"

With Gotham going into hiatus, I get to watch this show "live." It's fun . . . but had Kara handed out beatings for her friends, I would not have blamed her. So many putzes at the DEO. Lucky for James, Winn and Mon that J'onn was occupied with Megan. Otherwise, he would have been mentally pulled plugs everywhere.

I guess the irony is palpable. James has the determination to be a hero, but he's human under the armor. Mon has the powers, but he's a dumbass that hasn't learned everything. Maybe Kara can slam them together, creating a legit hero?

Biggest disappointment: Jessie Graff was in the credits, and she was basically Live Wire v1.5. I know she's a stuntwoman and not an actor, but a few more lines would have been nice. Go check her out on Amercan Ninja Warrior if you can. And she's got a pet pig. Her name is Sammo Hog.

White Martians? My first thought: "HYPERCLAN, BITCHES!!!"

[Primal Slayer]

8 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Mon-El and Kara's last scene was great, he's a good addition. Funny and a good character. 

If James is so into saving people, why doesn't he sign up to be a cop? Someone in law enforcement.  He doesn't seem to get he's not a super hero because he decides to be. Superman/Supergirl/Mon-El have powers, he does not. 

Giving you powers doesnt make you a hero either. They could also join law enforcement. They just make it seem like James is in it for the glory instead of saving people.

[Lady Calypso]

I do think that the Jimmy/Kara/Mon-El deal was frustrating, but at least each brought up some good points for their case. I think that Jimmy had one good point about bringing up the fact that Kara can't decide who's going to be a hero or not. He's also right in that Mon-El is not for being a hero for the right reasons, as he is really just in it for Kara at the moment. On the same wavelength, I do think Kara's wrong in telling Jimmy that he can't be a hero because he's human while her and Mon-El can just because they're aliens. She's willing to train Mon-El because she doesn't have to worry about death coming as easily for him as it would for Jimmy. She doesn't get to decide who gets to be a hero in National City, even if it displeases her. And Jimmy's right in that a hero isn't always someone with powers. Even in just this show, see our lovely Alex Danvers and her girlfriend. They have no powers and yet they still kick ass. So it makes no sense for Kara to dismiss Jimmy because he's human. That's a stupid reason from whoever wrote this episode and their tension.

However, and this really is a big however, I am not on Jimmy's side by any means. He's an idiot and a hypocrite. I know that I should believe him when he says that he has this same fighting urge to be a hero and save people and has for ages, but I just don't. All I see is Jimmy wanting to be a hero because he thinks it makes him look good. Look at the incredulous tone he got when he heard Mon-El was getting his own costume, as if there's only a select few that have dibs on being a hero. The problem is that Jimmy, up until this point, has only been in each episode for about five minutes or less. He's interacted with Mon-El a grand total of one time, and everything feels forced and fake because it hasn't been explored. So when Jimmy had his scenes with Kara this episode, I rolled my eyes because I just didn't buy it. I really don't get the sense he's doing it to help people. Don't forget, this all started when his damn camera broke. That's what set his Guardian arc off. 

The issue is that Jimmy just doesn't work. He halts the story completely for me. At least with Mon-El, as frustrating as he can be, he is woven into the storyline without disrupting it. He works well within his means, even if they need to tweak his purpose more. I just feel like Jimmy doesn't work for me and it's why I didn't like this episode. Even Kara was frustratingly annoying in her scenes with him. But I support her decision to not support Jimmy or Winn's crime fighting escapades. It's dumb. Also, I dislike how they had J'onn praise Winn and Jimmy's crime fighting team. Nope, show. I am never going to buy that team up. 

10 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Biggest disappointment: Jessie Graff was in the credits, and she was basically Live Wire v1.5. I know she's a stuntwoman and not an actor, but a few more lines would have been nice. Go check her out on Amercan Ninja Warrior if you can. And she's got a pet pig. Her name is Sammo Hog.

 

Oh! That was Jessie! I knew she looked familiar but I just couldn't place her. 

Livewire was great. They really got me with the victim twist. Plus, I love that she snarked on Mon-El/Guardian and asking Supergirl for their next meet up to be just them. The show really does try to keep the focus on the women. It's weaker this season, but it's nice to see it still there underneath all the mess that has transpired this season. 

I also grew to love the M'gann/J'onn story. I loved the little Danvers/J'onn family moment. That was so incredibly sweet, and I actually loved the J'onn/M'gann scene in her mind. 

So, White Martians are coming. That should be fun. 

[wevel]

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Jimmy's right in that a hero isn't always someone with powers. Even in just this show, see our lovely Alex Danvers and her girlfriend. They have no powers and yet they still kick ass. So it makes no sense for Kara to dismiss Jimmy because he's human. That's a stupid reason from whoever wrote this episode and their tension.

I think the difference between James-as-the-Guardian on the one hand and Alex on the other is that Alex works as an agent of the DEO, and generally has a whole team behind her.  Yes, sometimes she goes in alone and puts herself in danger, but not in the same way that James has worked more or less as a vigilante team of two, with Winn there only as recon/tech support.  If Alex decided to start wearing a mask and go it alone, I'm sure Kara would have strenuous and passionate objections!  But I agree the show didn't really frame Kara's arguments to James in this way; it did seem like the sole problem for her was that he was human and therefore could get killed.

Mon-El's whole redemption arc is mostly painful for me to watch, but at least it has more of internal logic than James', even if it's following a cloyingly predictable trajectory.  Kara calling *him* out made more sense to me, because it's not really heroic to fight only because you want to hang out with a person you're romantically interested in, or because you care an inordinate amount about that person's well-being over the principle of helping people in general.

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, wevel said:

I think the difference between James-as-the-Guardian on the one hand and Alex on the other is that Alex works as an agent of the DEO, and generally has a whole team behind her.  Yes, sometimes she goes in alone and puts herself in danger, but not in the same way that James has worked more or less as a vigilante team of two, with Winn there only as recon/tech support.  If Alex decided to start wearing a mask and go it alone, I'm sure Kara would have strenuous and passionate objections!  But I agree the show didn't really frame Kara's arguments to James in this way; it did seem like the sole problem for her was that he was human and therefore could get killed.

 

True; I do understand that the writers were trying to convey Kara's worry about his safety and that she didn't want to worry about him getting hurt or killed while in the field. Especially since he's not part of the DEO, doesn't have the proper team or skills to be a useful asset, I do think they really were trying to portray Kara as a worried friend. It's too bad that they didn't portray this arc better from the beginning, because I really do find it unbelievable. 

[stealinghome]

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I think the difference between James-as-the-Guardian on the one hand and Alex on the other is that Alex works as an agent of the DEO, and generally has a whole team behind her.  Yes, sometimes she goes in alone and puts herself in danger, but not in the same way that James has worked more or less as a vigilante team of two, with Winn there only as recon/tech support.  If Alex decided to start wearing a mask and go it alone, I'm sure Kara would have strenuous and passionate objections!

It's worth noting that Kara HAS yelled at Alex before for charging into dangerous situations recklessly. "You should have waited for me, dummy!" comes to mind. Kara wasn't pleased when Alex went off on her own in 2x02, either. So even Alex isn't totally immune to Kara's ire when Kara judges her to be acting overly recklessly.

That said, I agree that the writing wasn't nuanced enough with Kara and James, and Kara came off as quite condescending in this episode (which I don't totally mind, as I find it in character). The script underplayed "worried friend" and overplayed "humans are weak!"

Edited January 31, 2017 by stealinghome

[thuganomics85]

As great as it was seeing Livewire again, I have to admit I geeked out even more over seeing Steve Valentine as the evil scientist who kidnapped her.  He isn't a mega famous guy, but I know him from Uncharted 2: Among Thieves, one of my favorite video games of all time, where he played the villain, Harry Flynn, in it, so it is always fun to see him on screen, instead of just hear his voice.  So, that was a fun surprise.  The idea of Livewire being the victim was a general solid twist, and I can even buy her and Kara putting a side their differences at the end, although I suspect Kara letting her go will cause problems down the road.  I do feel like the archenemies bit makes more sense with Silver Banshee instead, but they had to go with Livewire since Italia Ricci as a regular gig on Designated Survivor. 

Meanwhile, we're back to another episode of Kara mainly dealing with Mon-El and James crap, although at least she kind of took front and center again, since it was more about her role in all of this, and the guys took more of a backseat.  Still, a lot going on that hasn't gotten the development it deserved.  In theory, I think James has points about how you don't need superpowers to be a hero and Kara really doesn't have the right to decide who does and doesn't (if anything, getting a wee bit into Oliver territory there.  Did he rub off on you during the crossover?!)  But due to how badly this plot has gone, it doesn't feel like James is doing this for the greater good, but because of his ego and wanting to feel important.  He just comes off selfish and unlikable.  And him bitching about Mon-El and the danger he puts others in his hilarious, since last week, he put Winn in danger, and barely gave a shit.  So, any good ideas over this plot don't work since James comes off like a dick.  Which sucks, because I really do like Mehcad Brooks, but they've really dug themselves into a hole at the moment, and I'm unsure if they can dig themselves out.

Admittedly, Mon-El isn't doing himself any favors either, but while his reasons are selfish too, I can at least sympathize with him a little bit more, because there has been slightly better development to explain why he likes Kara and wants to be a hero to work with her/help her.  It's not much, but it's better then whatever the hell is going on with James.

The scenes with J'onn and M'gann were the highlights of this episode; especially since Dave Harewood and Sharon Leal are great together.  Dave in particular continues to be the non-Benoist MVP.  Not just the dramatic, but even some of the funnier moments.  One of the best minor bits was after Kara broke the console and asked if was a toy, and J'onn bluntly replied "No, its expensive."  Just the way he delivered that line had me laughing for a while.

Alex and Maggie are going stronger.  Alex's even in the "willing to eat vegan ice cream" for her phrase, which is close to true love as you can get.

With everyone pretty much in just being in their own damn hero phrase, they should all just go ahead and resign from Catco now.  No one is going to have time for it, or really, care about it.  James pretty much already acts like he doesn't give a shit about journalism anymore, and anytime Kara care it seems to just help whatever crisis she is tangled up in at the moment.

Oh, shit!  White Martians are a coming!  Should be fun, but I'm just counting the days until Lena returns.

Edited January 31, 2017 by thuganomics85

[kalamac]

14 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

 With everyone pretty much in just being in their own damn hero phrase, they should all just go ahead and resign from Catco now.  No one is going to have time for it, or really, care about it.  James pretty much already asks like he doesn't give a shit about journalism anymore, and anytime Kara care it seems to just help whatever crisis she is tangled up in at the moment.

I don't see why they can't just make Kara a food critic who does a once a week column, instead of an investigative journalist. It would give her more time for Superheroing, and she's going to be eating anyway...

If it's a 'she needs to earn money thing', I'm sure the DEO could find a way to give her a paycheck. (Although I have a headcanon that the reason she could live in such a lovely apartment at her age was that Jeremiah left behind some hefty life insurance payouts for Eliza and the girls, and she owns her apartment, and possibly has a small trust.)

Edited January 31, 2017 by kalamac
Spelling. Damn autocorrect.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 minutes ago, kalamac said:

If it's a 'she needs to earn money thing', I'm sure the DEO could find a way to give her a paycheck. (Although I have a head cannon that the reason she could live in such a lovely apartment at her age was that Jeremiah left behind some hefty life insurance payouts for Eliza and the girls, and she owns her apartment, and possibly has a small trust.)

So the reason she and Alex are no longer searching for Jeremiah is so they don't have to pay back the insurance money?

[GHScorpiosRule]

I never thought it would happen, but this show has made me hate Jimmy Olsen. He's not Guardian because that's what he's always wanted to do-help people, but for the glory and because he was jealous of Kara, and boo hoo because he was in Superman's shadow, which is just nonsense. Because he was never Superman's side-kick or partner.

And Mon-El is just as bad, because he doesn't really want to help people either. He's just in it to be close to Kara. And seeing him stop protecting the cops to help her, just gave me visions of older shows where when heroes, cops, agents, who are either romantically involved, or partnered with the object of their desire/love, will always screw up and think more about the one they love/have feelings for/are dating/having sex with, than saving the ones who need help/saving.??????

At this point I'm thinking just bring in Brainiac5!*

*Justice League Unlimited 

Edited January 31, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[legaleagle53]

27 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I never thought it would happen, but this show has made me hate Jimmy Olsen. He's not Guardian because that's what he's always wanted to do-help people, but for the glory and because he was jealous of Kara, and boo hoo because he was in Superman's shadow, which is just nonsense. Because he was never Superman's side-kick or partner.

And Mon-El is just as bad, because he doesn't really want to help people either. He's just in it to be close to Kara. And seeing him stop protecting the cops to help her, just gave me visions of older shows where when heroes, cops, agents, who are either romantically involved, or partnered with the object of their desire/love, will always screw up and think more about the one they love/have feelings for/are dating/having sex with, than saving the ones who need help/saving.??????

At this point I'm thinking just bring in Brainiac5!*

*Justice League Unlimited 

Uh-huh.  Then you come up with a way for Kara to explain why her boyfriend is the color of an unripened banana to those who don't know that she's Supergirl.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Uh-huh.  Then you come up with a way for Kara to explain why her boyfriend is the color of an unripened banana to those who don't know that she's Supergirl.

?????????????

[Lantern7]

I kinda feel for James. If he looked more like Silver Age Jimmy Olsen: Goobersaurus Maximus, I'd say, "Dude. Way over your head. Quit now." Seriously, Winn looks like Superman compared to that guy. But since we have a good-lookin' dude who wouldn't get tied up every other episode, I get why he doesn't want to be "second banana," even though he's been in the journalism business for years and should be happy as a photographer. Also, if friggin' Frat Boy From Outer Space gets to be a hero, then why not him?

[Xenith22]

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This episode was more coherent than the last one and Livewire is always a fun villain. I don't really buy that she can actually kill Supergirl though. IIRC Kara was fine after she was hit by the big lightning strike that created livewire and The Flash's lightning did nothing to her. Unless  Liwewire being created through Kara gives her some special ability to hurt Supergirl.

Eh, we have seen in the past they one good jolt from Livewire was able to hurt Kara, for instance when Kara threw herself in front of the helicopter in World's Finest to block Liverwire's attack.   Kara fell to the ground in some serious pain unable to move.   Had Livewire poured it on it doesn't seem unreasonable that she could potentially finish her.

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In theory, I think James has points about how you don't need superpowers to be a hero and Kara really doesn't have the right to decide who does and doesn't (if anything, getting a wee bit into Oliver territory there.  Did he rub off on you during the crossover?!)

Yeah...speaking of which she fought aliens alongside no less than 6 powerless humans during the crossover (I think it is 8 if you count the two Arrow trainees she went meta-hunting with...although they were not very effective/useful)?   So the whole can't be a hero without powers seems like a really stupid argument for her to actually believe after her experience on the other Earth seeing that normal humans can indeed hold their own...

Edited January 31, 2017 by Xenith22

[Cthulhudrew]

By some definitions, I suppose police are civilians, but considering they are trained, voluntary crimefighting personnel not unlike Supergirl, Superman, the DEO, and (by some measure) Mon-El and Guardian, I'm not sure Supergirl's concerns about Mon-El "abandoning" them was justified.

I feel like this episode really ratcheted up her fears and neuroses over Livewire to the degree of caricature. Especially considering it's Livewire. The campy, one-dimensional villain who has pretty much done nothing to really justify herself as a threat so far.

Listening to James dismiss Mon-El for only thinking about himself was pretty ironic.

[stealinghome]

2 hours ago, kalamac said:

I don't see why they can't just make Kara a food critic who does a once a week column, instead of an investigative journalist. It would give her more time for Superheroing, and she's going to be eating anyway...

If it's a 'she needs to earn money thing', I'm sure the DEO could find a way to give her a paycheck. (Although I have a headcanon that the reason she could live in such a lovely apartment at her age was that Jeremiah left behind some hefty life insurance payouts for Eliza and the girls, and she owns her apartment, and possibly has a small trust.)

Plus, imagine the hilarity potential of Kara getting to be a food critic. Every episode opens with her at a new restaurant having a foodgasm as the waiter stares at her....

iirc, I think someone actually asked Melissa Benoist about Kara's apartment once, and she said that her headcanon as to how Kara affords it is that Kara's apartment is in a crappy part of town AND Kara helps the landlady with odd jobs. It cracked me  up that she had such a detailed backstory!

[RachelKM]

BSC Scientist: Did you know that most scientist experiment on the themselves first?

Me: That's not true.

[Trini]

I just hated that James and Kara were fighting (my babies!), and while I'm resigned to the fact that their romantic arc is over, it sucks that they are messing with their friendship now, too.

Kara and Mon-El are sooo high school, I can't even.

Livewire and J'onn/M'Gann saved this episode for me. Only nitpick was that Livewire/Supergirl repeated beats of The Flash/Captain Cold.

[Why did they even bother with that Dean Cain cameo if they weren't going to progress finding Jeremiah??]

[Humbugged]

Hey Supergirl's stunt double gets to be an actress now as well as being a Ninja Warrior .FauxWire was Jessie Graff

 

[BooBear]

8 hours ago, StarBrand said:

I thought it was a neat swerve to actually have Livewire being the victim. Have to admit I didn't see that coming.

Agreed. Enjoyed that. I didn't look forward to seeing her rampaging again.  

Monel is so horrible but I do think the show has a small opening to do an interesting story with Kara not really reciprocating and Monel realizing that he has grown to have strong feelings for her because of other reasons than love... such as having a best friend on this strange planet.  I see zero chemistry between the two of them. 

I despise Jimmy and even Winn for not telling the DEO where livewire was...  I think he might be on firing territory. 

I am so bored with the Martian / John storyline. Intensely boring for me. 

[Miss Dee]

I can't help it; Mon-El completely cracks me up. That actor is a treasure. Not feeling him and Supergirl, but if he continues to be funny like this I'll go with it. (Although Kara? Mick's a funny guy too. Just putting that out there.)

James' arc isn't bothering me like most of you. I like Mehcad Brooks and I like the idea of Supergirl having to deal with ordinary human beings getting inspired to be superheroes all on their own. I really wish Alex or Oliver had heard that "humans can't be heroes" remark; either could have shut that down cold. But I'm glad she made it; it makes sense that Kara would be a little arrogant at this point, training super powered people to do what she does. Other than Clark, she is the  most powerful being that she knows of in *any* universe - and she hasn't been at this very long herself. She has room to grow, and I Iike that.

J'onn and M'gann were very sweet. They've got a treasure trove with David Harewood. I wondered why they kept their human forms on their home planet (real reason being the special effects budget), but I fanwanked this was their subconscious way of distancing themselves from the memories they must have been overwhelmed with at that moment.

[Bats27]

Kara's "only people with powers should be heroes" is pretty stupid. Hey Kara, you have no problem working with a bunch of non-powered people on a daily basis, including your own sister. Also they hinted that Batman existed in this universe as well before. AND she just worked with a bunch of non-powered heroes during the crossover like two episode ago.

 

If they had specified that it was about James and his lack of training or experience, or questionable motivations, then that'd have made far more sense.

But her blanket statement as is, is ludicrous given her own past experiences.   

[benteen]

If laughable that James now thinks he can decide who can be a hero and who can't.  Even after this episode, you still can't convince me that he's more worried about the idea of being a hero than actually being a hero.  Not calling in Kara to go after Livewire is further proof of that.  He didn't give a damn when Wynn was almost killed last week and still doesn't care.  Hey, Jimmy...calling yourself a hero doesn't make you one.

[Chicago Redshirt]

It would help to enjoy these episodes if many of the characters didn't act like complete idiots. 

Wynn: I lied to my boss, a superpowerful mind-reading alien, about the potential whereabouts of Live Wire and two Live Wire knock-offs (at least). Having just been decked by an ordinary mugger and getting recently scared off of helping you, Guardian, I'm now better. Here is the address. Let us take on both these lethal threats with no plan and no special equipment to defeat them.

Jimmy: Roger that. I would like to not include Supergirl in this plan. It does not matter to me that I used to have feelings for her or that we talked about how we were stronger together or that I have shown no signs of being able to do anything more than briefly hold my own against a knock-off, let alone two. I'm glad we're having this conversation in the DEO base where no one can possibly hear us.

Mon-El: Rather than confront Jimmy and Wynn about what I just heard and urge them to not go it alone, or to team up with them and come up with a plan, or to tell Supergirl and the rest of the DEO the whereabouts of Live Wire, I will follow Jimmy and Winn and bust in without a plan. I want to show I've learned nothing from when I failed to inform the DEO about a threat and got stuck powerless on an alien planet.

Supergirl: Having gnashed my teeth at the drastic threat that Live Wire poses for the entire episode, I'm going to agree to let her go so she can go threaten people some more. It's a good thing that Calista Flockhart has been bought out so Live Wire can't track her down and electrocute her.

J'onn: I am apparently a shadow of my Season One self. Can you picture one of my employees back then straight up lying to me about a work matter and my not dropkicking him all the way to Mars?

[Dobian]

Who writes these episodes, sixteen year olds?  First you have Jimmy and his stupid Guardian routine, whining and sulking because Supergirl doesn't want to let him play and he doesn't want to be just "another guy from the office".  Dude, you are in charge of a multi-billion dollar media conglomerate.  Your days and nights should be overflowing with important things to do.  You are surely in contact with the richest, most famous, and most influential people in the world.  Your work and social life must be so over-booked I can't see how you have even five minutes to go hang out at the DEO, let alone galavant around every night as the Guardian.  Cat's empire must be in shambles with you in charge.  She should come back and fire you, which would give you all the time you need to play super hero with Winn, when you aren't pouting like a couple of brats because Kara doesn't think you're cool enough.  Sheesh.

And then there's the Mon-El teen romance.  "We're both grown adults, Kara, and I can see the signs all over your face that you really want me, and you pretty much told me the same thing and made it so obvious any idiot could figure it out, but I'm just too shy so let's high five!"

Yep, written by teenagers for teenagers.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Dobian
typo

[Primetimer]

Also: watch what happens when two less-qualified men nominate themselves for a Girl's job.

View the full article

[StaceyNotStacie]

This wasn't bad. I'm glad Kara knows that James is the Guardian and I liked Jon's smackdown of Wynn afterwards. 

The cast seems like it's getting a bit too big and they're trying to fit everyone in. Jon seems like he has barely been used this season compared to last year. James seems so separated from everyone else and, if he disappeared, I probably wouldn't notice (or care) that he was gone. Also, there's a continuity issue. They ended last week with the people looking for Mon-El and they didn't even mention it this week. 

[mtlchick]

Quote

I don't disagree, but I can also fanwank that Kara knows Alex is a) highly trained, b) has Supergirl PLUS the DEO for backup, and c) is her big sister/personal superhero so she just kind of rolls with the fact that Alex is the baddest badass ever. :)

Agreed.  Alex has been doing this for a long time, probably a lot longer than Kara has been aware of and Alex trained HER on how to be a better fighter and tactician.  That said, Kara just spent time on another Earth with a lot of people that don't have powers but still do some good.  I think the issue is the lack of training James may have...a fancy suit and shield and Winn in a van can only do so much.

Nice to have Livewire back but I was wondering if it was a different actress.

[AzureOwl]

13 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Biggest disappointment: Jessie Graff was in the credits, and she was basically Live Wire v1.5. I know she's a stuntwoman and not an actor, but a few more lines would have been nice. Go check her out on Amercan Ninja Warrior if you can. And she's got a pet pig. Her name is Sammo Hog.

 

7 hours ago, Humbugged said:

Hey Supergirl's stunt double gets to be an actress now as well as being a Ninja Warrior .FauxWire was Jessie Graff

 

 

For me the biggest disappointment was that they wasted her in a part that didn't require her to wear an outfit that showed off her abs. Such a waste!

[KirkB]

Oh James Olsen, you fool. You almost had me on your side. I was with you for part of your talk with Kara. You ARE a grown man who gets to make your own decisions and she has no right to tell you otherwise. If you want to neglect your billion dollar multimedia corporation so you can put on a costume and go out to fight crime in a city where the next bad guy you run into might be able to fry you with a glance or can juggle cars that's your business. But it's just a wee bit hypocritical for you, in the same conversation, to say Mon-El can't because YOU don't think he's hero material. And while you're at it, be more open about the fact you're not Guardian to help National City or to protect people but to feed your own ego. I still wouldn't like it but I would be able to respect you a little bit more that way.

Kara, just because you're a nigh invulnerable alien doesn't mean you get to determine who is and is not allowed to play in your sandbox. You want Mon-El out there even though he clearly doesn't, so you aren't in any position to tell James he can't do the same thing Alex and Maggie do, ie be regular people fighting crime in National City. You certainly don't have to like it and you are free to tell him so, but unless you plan to spend all your time watching over him there really isn't a lot you can do to stop him.

Mon-El, I don't know why we even need you on the show, but since you aren't going away can you at least make up your mind about...something. It's quite evident to everyone except Kara you want her. Tell her who you really are and get on with it. Putting on a costume (which, BTW Winn, if that's the best you can do for him you're slipping) just to impress her makes you look foolish.

J'onn, I feel bad you've been relegated to guest star status.

[MarkHB]

One thing just occurred to me: the scene that was in the previews when Winn does the big game-show-host intro of "the one, the only, Livewire!"

 

And then they go out and fight two imitations.

Livewire is still my favorite recurring villain, though.  I'm wondering if she'll be back before the end of the season.

[stealinghome]

31 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Oh James Olsen, you fool. You almost had me on your side. I was with you for part of your talk with Kara. You ARE a grown man who gets to make your own decisions and she has no right to tell you otherwise. If you want to neglect your billion dollar multimedia corporation so you can put on a costume and go out to fight crime in a city where the next bad guy you run into might be able to fry you with a glance or can juggle cars that's your business. But it's just a wee bit hypocritical for you, in the same conversation, to say Mon-El can't because YOU don't think he's hero material. And while you're at it, be more open about the fact you're not Guardian to help National City or to protect people but to feed your own ego. I still wouldn't like it but I would be able to respect you a little bit more that way.

Kara, just because you're a nigh invulnerable alien doesn't mean you get to determine who is and is not allowed to play in your sandbox. You want Mon-El out there even though he clearly doesn't, so you aren't in any position to tell James he can't do the same thing Alex and Maggie do, ie be regular people fighting crime in National City. You certainly don't have to like it and you are free to tell him so, but unless you plan to spend all your time watching over him there really isn't a lot you can do to stop him.

Mon-El, I don't know why we even need you on the show, but since you aren't going away can you at least make up your mind about...something. It's quite evident to everyone except Kara you want her. Tell her who you really are and get on with it. Putting on a costume (which, BTW Winn, if that's the best you can do for him you're slipping) just to impress her makes you look foolish.

J'onn, I feel bad you've been relegated to guest star status.

There are not enough upvotes in the world for this post.

[Bats27]

1 hour ago, mtlchick said:

Agreed.  Alex has been doing this for a long time, probably a lot longer than Kara has been aware of and Alex trained HER on how to be a better fighter and tactician.  That said, Kara just spent time on another Earth with a lot of people that don't have powers but still do some good.  I think the issue is the lack of training James may have...a fancy suit and shield and Winn in a van can only do so much.

Nice to have Livewire back but I was wondering if it was a different actress.

The thing is, if they'd had her specify the distinction, then this wouldn't be a problem.  But they didn't.  Instead, they had her make a blanket statement about people without powers not being heroes.  Which is ludicrous given her previous experiences, RECENT ones even.

Hey Kara, forget Alex (and Maggie, who gets involved in these matters as well without powers BTW).  Did you forget about Oliver, or Sara, or Diggle, or Thea, or Atom, or Heatwave, etc?

That's what's so irritating about it, it'd be REALLY easy to fix, but they just didn't.

[iMonrey]

OK comic book fans . . . how did J'onn and M'gann get from Mars to Earth? And when did this happen? Is the reason why Mars is unpopulated now because of this war between the White and Green martians? 

Quote

Superman/Supergirl/Mon-El have powers, he does not. 

Technically, Batman doesn't have any super powers either. But I agree that James wanting to be a super hero makes him look like a pathetic wanna-be. 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I really wish Alex or Oliver had heard that "humans can't be heroes" remark

I get that Kara was worried for a friend but I really don`t get where her snobby "only superpowered people allowed" attitude suddenly comes from. In the x-over, she was perfectly fine with Oliver in their superhero team-up. And I didn`t get the impression it was just because it was only a visit to another Earth. That statement struck me as quite out of character for the usually sweet Kara. She never displayed that attitude to Alex either and it`s largely the same thing.

But the worst was "stop or I`ll stop you". Seriously? Not only do you proclaim humans forever too weak to be a hero like an elitist powered asshole but you also want to physically take away their choices? I betcha your cousin or Barry or J`onn or any of your superpowered friends would have been ashamed to hear you say that. I was pretty disgusted with the character for the first time in the show.

That said, James was also being quite hypocritical. Sure, he is not wrong about Mon El`s motives but like Kara, you are not the sole arbiter of hero-dom either. 

[shantown]

18 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

So the reason she and Alex are no longer searching for Jeremiah is so they don't have to pay back the insurance money?

11 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

I can't help it; Mon-El completely cracks me up. That actor is a treasure. Not feeling him and Supergirl, but if he continues to be funny like this I'll go with it. (Although Kara? Mick's a funny guy too. Just putting that out there.)

James' arc isn't bothering me like most of you. I like Mehcad Brooks and I like the idea of Supergirl having to deal with ordinary human beings getting inspired to be superheroes all on their own. I really wish Alex or Oliver had heard that "humans can't be heroes" remark; either could have shut that down cold. But I'm glad she made it; it makes sense that Kara would be a little arrogant at this point, training super powered people to do what she does. Other than Clark, she is the  most powerful being that she knows of in *any* universe - and she hasn't been at this very long herself. She has room to grow, and I Iike that.

J'onn and M'gann were very sweet. They've got a treasure trove with David Harewood. I wondered why they kept their human forms on their home planet (real reason being the special effects budget), but I fanwanked this was their subconscious way of distancing themselves from the memories they must have been overwhelmed with at that moment.

I totally forgot Jeremiah was even a thing. I know they can't have Alex and J'onn be gone/separated from the rest of the cast for long periods of time, but so much for their mission to find and save him. Especially when Kara knows (knew?) what building he was in after he helped her escape.

I like your reasoning for why we saw J'onn and M'gann as their human forms was also that it's a lot easier for the audience to be sympathetic to M'gann when she is a pretty human than a ugly martian.

I'll keep saying it until one of the writer's listens to me - James has a lot of other potentially awesome story available that is not being the Guardian. Have him realize it's dumb and cut your losses. The last thing I want is more superhero characters than normal humans, and everyone openly hanging out at the DEO. It's gone from being a top-secret, difficult to reach hidden HQ to being a revolving door in the middle of the city. Ugh.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, shantown said:

and everyone openly hanging out at the DEO. It's gone from being a top-secret, difficult to reach hidden HQ to being a revolving door in the middle of the city. Ugh.

Ugh -- yes. I hate that anyone can just show up there now. Don't we have the Alien Dive Bar to use as a hang out/meet up spot now?

[BkWurm1]

20 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I kinda feel for James. If he looked more like Silver Age Jimmy Olsen: Goobersaurus Maximus, I'd say, "Dude. Way over your head. Quit now." Seriously, Winn looks like Superman compared to that guy. But since we have a good-lookin' dude who wouldn't get tied up every other episode, I get why he doesn't want to be "second banana," even though he's been in the journalism business for years and should be happy as a photographer. Also, if friggin' Frat Boy From Outer Space gets to be a hero, then why not him?

The main reason why this story line isn't working for me (beyond James acting like a tool) is there is no need for the Guardian in a city with Supergirl and the DEO and a competent police department. It also IMO is kind of a backhanded insult to anyone in the Arrowverse not physically fighting since apparently James has been deeply unsatisfied over merely helping the Supers or being passionate with his photography and just hiding how inadequate he's always felt.  And I'm supposed to nod my head and totally understand where he's coming from.  And I absolutely don't.  

Until Kara decided not to go there with their romance, James really hadn't been portrayed as feeling like he needed to be a street level hero in order to feel fulfilled.  It really feels like it was his direct reaction to kinda being dumped by Supergirl.  Or at least the show runners acting like they decided the problem why that pairing wasn't working was that James wasn't infused with more male stereotypes.  

And because it really feels like James doing his Guardian thing is just a result of a bruised ego, I find any of his complaints about Mon-el absurd.  Neither have good motives but at least Monel is way more likely to survive. The only reason James is alive is because Winn is just that good.  

I just don't see where the show thinks it's going to take this Guardian arc.  (Assuming that James isn't written off the show)  I do sorta feel like Guardian was supposed to make Kara and James more equal but at least I liked him before.  I am so close to hating Jimmy now.  If he really wanted to make a difference, at least pick a city where he's doing more than just saving Kara a little time.  He's really not radically changing anything.  He's weaker in my eyes now than last year when he was being super wishy washy about Lucy or Kara.  

I liked James when he was contributing to what Kara was trying to do, not trying to take over what she was doing.   I think that's really why I hated him this episode.  Before I could at least say he was always just trying to help, but this time it was made perfectly clear, he's in it to prove he's as good as Supergirl.  Not only is it painfully obvious he is not, but unless he's the villain, he shouldn't even be trying to prove himself against her.  

Edited February 1, 2017 by BkWurm1

[stealinghome]

I think the show just has absolutely no clue what to do with James now that he's not the love interest, so they defaulted to "making him a superhero will make him more interesting...RIGHT?" 

Which is maddening because the answer is so obvious: return him to his photojournalist roots and have him and Kara team up for some investigative journalism. But wait, that would mean Kara can't be glued at the hip to Mon-El 24/7...and we all know we can't have that!

[Trini]

The producers are just really unimaginative and/or uninterested when it comes to James' role in the show. It's really disappointing.