S01.E03: Brocket Hall

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Victoria grows into her royal role; and ponders marriage. In other events, her friendship with Lord Melbourne grows complex.

[Brn2bwild]

Is the actor who plays Leopold the same one who plays David/Edward VIII in The Crown?  They seem like the same person: "This could have been MINE if history had been different!'

Edited January 23, 2017 by Brn2bwild

[DHDancer]

9 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Is the actor who plays Leopold the same one who plays David/Edward VIII in The Crown?  They seem like the same person: "This could have been MINE if history had been different!'

Yes, it's Alex Jennings.

[PRgal]

Geez, I would have HATED to be in Victoria's position.  All she wanted to be was a normal, 19 year old girl.  Or maybe I'm just looking at it from too much of a late 20th (because I was 19 in the late 20th century) /21st century perspective. 

[kwnyc]

In this episode, Victoria learns that you can pay people to go away. (And really? A title and 1,000 pounds a year? I'm sure V. would have paid Conroy a LOT more to leave the country.)

Also: Cousin George is an idiot. (though the Lancelot/Galahad bit was pretty funny.) And I will repair to the "historical" forum to discuss his later activities.

The actual Prince Albert was rather handsome (not just for a royal).

[humbleopinion]

Hopefully, we saw the LAST time Victoria throws herself at Lord M.

Girlfriend... how many ways can Lord M tell you that he still holds a THANG for his ex?

Dancing with SirJohn...yuck.

Stop with the downstairs drama...

I knew Downton Abbey...Victoria, is NO Downton Abbey.

[Chicklet]

Ok anyone else catch the little "I'll live just with a COMPANION" line? I laughed and wanted to give the writers a high five.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Chicklet

[Constantinople]

Brocket Man
Burning out his fuse up here alone.

[vibeology]

56 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Hopefully, we saw the LAST time Victoria throws herself at Lord M.

Girlfriend... how many ways can Lord M tell you that he still holds a THANG for his ex?

Except, Victoria wasn't wrong about him. He went to a costume ball dressed to match her costume. He opened up his greenhouses for the first time since his wife died for Victoria. You don't do that for someone you're not into. It's just Lord M knows that he's too old, not royal and that eventually Victoria will need to marry someone at her level and have children for the nation and that she needs someone she can love and spend her life with for herself. Yes, he loves Caroline, but its seems pretty clear to me that we're supposed to see that he has feelings for and is attracted to Victoria.

The downstairs stuff about the Chartists didn't bug me since it tied into what Victoria was doing, but all the stuff about betting on her was dumb. It wasn't funny and if you do know your history (and you barely need to know anything about Victoria to know who she marries), it wasn't suspenseful.

[abbyzenn]

Haven't watched the episode yet but wanted to comment about all the comment's regarding Rufus Sewell in last week.  If you want to see him looking absolutely gorgeous watch the mystery series Zenn.  The mysteries are okay - I think there's 3 episodes - that take place in Rom but trust me they're worth watching just for him.

[attica]

Ugh, I hadn't realized that it is Tom Hughes playing Albert. Well, at least that gives me a drinking game for his episodes: all the emotions he will attempt to render with his single facial expression! 

(His turn in The Game became a subject of hilarity among my cohort: he never once changed faces regardless of the content of the scene. Quite remarkable. I mean, he's pleasant looking enough, but crinkle an eye muscle occasionally, man!)

[meep.meep]

He's no Rupert Friend for sure.

Having now had two episodes featuring dancing, I have to apologize to Jenna Coleman - she can dance, Rufus Sewell cannot.

[Quilt Fairy]

13 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Is the actor who plays Leopold the same one who plays David/Edward VIII in The Crown?  They seem like the same person: "This could have been MINE if history had been different!'

Yes, and he also played Prince Charles in The Queen.  It makes you appreciate the in-breeding even more when the same face keeps popping up in different spots in the royal line.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Quilt Fairy

[attica]

I bet Jennings has a Royal Family Bingo card taped to his agent's wall. Catch 'em all!

[vibeology]

1 minute ago, attica said:

I bet Jennings has a Royal Family Bingo card taped to his agent's wall. Catch 'em all!

What does he have left to his. Stuarts, Tudors, at least one side of the War of the Roses? Not bad.

I really enjoyed him in this. He was overbearing without giving off the same menacing vibes as Conroy or the heartless vibes of Uncle Cumberland. His ambition was clear and he was a strong opposition to Victoria but not an enemy in the same way. I got the sense he's always going to send letters and try to sway her but once she's married (one way or the other, no spoilers) he's going to be awkward family rather than someone who is actively trying to undermine her at every turn.

[Primetimer]

Will anyone be able to compete with Rufus Sewell as leading man?

View the full article

[teddysmom]

I havent' watched this yet but happened to see this scene last night. Hoochie Mama. I have totally forgotten he's a Nazi meanie on Man in High Castle.

[TaurusRose]

Jenna Coleman as Victoria is just not working for me.  Her Victoria is just too in your face about her pedigree (as if anyone around her needs a constant primer). Although, I guess I can see her point since she's petite, young and female.  But she really is coming across as a bratty, willful little girl who doesn't have a clue.  Her only redeeming action last night was commuting the sentence of the Chartists.  (I could not believe that drawing and quartering was still on the books.  Yikes!)  I'm also over the Victoria/Lord M infatuation; although, I do like how Lord M is being portrayed as honorable man and steering her in the right direction (unlike Conroy who has spent all of his time trying to wiggle his way into power).  I did not watch Downtown Abbey, but I do know that I don't care about the people in the kitchen.  Stop it.  I haven't seen Tom Hughes in anything, but he will have to be impressive to wipe Rupert Friend's Prince Albert out of my mind.  LOL  Here's to hoping the next episode is much, much better.  

Edited January 23, 2017 by taurusrose

[blackwing]

I didn't enjoy this episode as much as I did the first one last week.  I'm glad she got rid of the simpering secretary of her mother's, but now the role of the meddler has simply been replaced by her uncle King Leopold.  I truly cannot stand this actor who plays Leopold and The Crown's Duke of Windsor.  Is he like this in everything he appears in?

I'm curious as to how Lord Melbourne is able to seemingly spend an entire chunk of his day at court tending to the Queen's needs.  He's the prime minister.  I get that they might not meet every day, and that one of his responsibilities is to advise the Queen of what is happening, but it seems like he is more with her than in Parliament.  Important business is being debated and yet there he is, lounging around or riding horses.

I still find myself not caring in the least about any of the downstairs group.  This includes 1) betting on who the Queen will marry; 2) the Italian cook still trying to get into the maid's skirts; and 3) the housekeeper fainting because of the Chartist rebellion.  How could they not have known what was going on?  The Chartists rebel, she is from that area, she gets a letter, she hurriedly leaves the table, she drops her bowl when someone mentions the hanging, etc.  I just don't care.

I think the reason why I don't care is because the show has done an extremely poor job of trying to make me care.  With Downton Abbey, from the start we were pretty much seeing the world from both the upstairs and downstairs perspective.  We were introduced to these people as human beings, all with dreams and faults.  With this series, I feel like the focus was on Victoria from the beginning, and about what she was undergoing.  Then it was interrupted by these interludes that I just found myself not caring about at all.  The candles, the rats, the Italian cook, the selling of the gloves, the new girl, etc.  I don't even know any of their names.  I don't know any of her ladies in waiting - they are all just a mosh of unrecognisable faces.  I don't know any of the servants.  I just call them the Italian cook, the Old Guy, the New Girl who sold gloves, the Housekeeper with the dead nephew, and the Young Guy who doesn't have sixpence.  To make it worse, now they're trying to inject some sort of scandal by having the Italian cook blackmail the New Girl into sleeping with him by threatening to reveal that she worked in a brothel, or something like that.  I truly just don't care.  It's not dramatic.  It's just boring.  They should have replaced all of the downstairs scenes with more of Victoria and her Historical Costume Ball.  I wanted to see more costumes and more identification of who each attendee was trying to be.

Two questions I have:  

1) was this supposed pseudo-romance between Melbourne and Victoria real, or is it being played up for the TV show?  Did he actually suggest to Victoria that he should be her "companion" in the same sense that Leicester was a companion to Elizabeth?  

2) did Prince George of Cambridge really bungle things by saying within Victoria's earshot that he didn't want to marry the midget and be told what to do?  She obviously didn't like him to begin with but this show is making it seem like that this overheard conversation is what finally doomed his chance.

Edited January 23, 2017 by blackwing

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Yes, and he also played Prince Charles in The Queen.  It makes you appreciate the in-breeding even more when the same face keeps popping up in different spots in the royal line.

That post was simply delicious!

[pbutler111]

When did Eve Myles become so... stout? Did she gain a lot of weight just for this role (though it's not clear how that would actually be necessary)? Or is she just much heavier these days?

[humbleopinion]

When Victoria goes to visit Lord M in the garden and the two have a Pride and Prejudice (the movie with KieraK) moment when they get close and he reaches for her gloved hand, their heads close, streaming sunlight as the only thing separating them.

When the two are having the conversation about Albert and Ernest, it was the battle of the biggest eyes with close up after close up.

Think Rufus won, his eyes are more soulful.

[Meredith Quill]

28 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Two questions I have:  

1) was this supposed pseudo-romance between Melbourne and Victoria real, or is it being played up for the TV show?  Did he actually suggest to Victoria that he should be her "companion" in the same sense that Leicester was a companion to Elizabeth?  

2) did Prince George of Cambridge really bungle things by saying within Victoria's earshot that he didn't want to marry the midget and be told what to do?  She obviously didn't like him to begin with but this show is making it seem like that this overheard conversation is what finally doomed his chance.

Mod Note: 

If anyone wishes to answer these questions please do so in the History topic.

Thanks.

[PRgal]

6 hours ago, kwnyc said:

In this episode, Victoria learns that you can pay people to go away. (And really? A title and 1,000 pounds a year? I'm sure V. would have paid Conroy a LOT more to leave the country.)

Also: Cousin George is an idiot. (though the Lancelot/Galahad bit was pretty funny.) And I will repair to the "historical" forum to discuss his later activities.

The actual Prince Albert was rather handsome (not just for a royal).

Hellooooooo, Albert....
 

TV Albert looks dorkier.  The 'stache didn't suit him at ALL.  I will now refer to that 'stache as the "Royal Dorkstache." :)

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, pbutler111 said:

When did Eve Myles become so... stout? Did she gain a lot of weight just for this role (though it's not clear how that would actually be necessary)? Or is she just much heavier these days?

I don't know when this was filmed, but I saw Eve Myles at a convention in April of last year, and she was tiny -- looked the way she did on Torchwood. It was a reasonably small convention, so this impression came from walking past her, not just seeing her up on stage.

[pbutler111]

14 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I don't know when this was filmed, but I saw Eve Myles at a convention in April of last year, and she was tiny -- looked the way she did on Torchwood. It was a reasonably small convention, so this impression came from walking past her, not just seeing her up on stage.

That's interesting.  I know she had a baby in February 2014, so maybe that was close to when this show was shot?  I've never actually seen her heavy before this role, so it really stood out.

[Constantinople]

I for one think it's sweet that for Victoria, Lord M puts the prime into prime minister, and that there will always be a little bit of Melbourne in the heart of Victoria (at least in Australia).

[peridot]

I agree with the poster above, it's hard to care about any of these characters.  Victoria and Melbourne are constantly stalking each other, the cook is an overbearing creep, and the scarred uncle is constantly grasping for power.

Might be another show to drop.

[CeeBeeGee]

So apparently Lord Mountbatten took a page out of Leopold's book, constantly trying to set up matches for his less-royal nephews. That character was incredibly annoying. I would've kicked Albert out on that principle alone. Stop trying to make fetch happen, Leopold!

[humbleopinion]

I stated this in the other Victoria thread...this Masterpiece's Albert looks like Prince...his Purple majesty.

Seriously, when Victoria looks up when playing the piano to the see who it is turning her page...it is Prince Rogers Nelson, the side bang, the facial hair,  the searching stare into her soul.

Purple rain...purple rain...

[AnnieBananie]

For so many, the story of Victoria doesn't start until Albert enters the picture, and while I'm excited to see how this show handles that aspect of Victoria's life, I'm glad that the show didn't give short shrift to her life before that. 

Bring on the sideburns!

[skyways]

Lol. Even after already seeing the series, I still don't know what to make of Albert............ Someone else stole the show for me...................

[Quilt Fairy]

There's something about the "look" of this show that leaves me cold.  There are 2 things I can point at: the first is when they do the wide background or overhead shots of London. It's so obviously fake, it takes me out of the show.  The 2nd is the lighting of the interior shots.  I'm not sure but I wonder if they're doing the same thing as the director of Wolf Hall did in that series, i.e., they are using only natural light and/or the light from candles to light the scenes.  In Wolf Hall that technique didn't bother me at all, but here I find all the interior scenes to be dark and dusty.

[Dirtybubble]

I said it last week and I have to say it again this week...ENOUGH with the downstairs drama!  I don't know what to make of the head butler here.  He comes across as so....slimy I just don't understand how he runs Buckingham Palace efficiently.  And again I find myself comparing him to Mr. Carson who I am hoping travels back in time to drop kick this worthless group of people.  And speaking of slimy--the head chef (or I guess that's what he is) is no Ms. Patamore!  Give me Mr. Bates & Anna, Mrs. Hughes, hell even Thomas Barrow over this group.

18 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

When Victoria goes to visit Lord M in the garden and the two have a Pride and Prejudice (the movie with KieraK) moment when they get close and he reaches for her gloved hand, their heads close, streaming sunlight as the only thing separating them.

*Le sigh* so dreamy!  I ate it up with a spoon!  I am a Dr. Who fan so I was worried about Jenna Coleman as the queen but so far I don't find myself comparing her to Claire at all.  This entire scene played out perfectly and it does help that Lord M is such a dream with his piercing eyes and model like cheekbones. 

[proserpina65]

20 hours ago, meep.meep said:

He's no Rupert Friend for sure.

Having now had two episodes featuring dancing, I have to apologize to Jenna Coleman - she can dance, Rufus Sewell cannot.

It did seem quite awkward in a way that her dancing with the Russian did not.

[humbleopinion]

Rupert Friend is my benchmark Albert.

This PBS' Albert will have to do some fancy wooing to knock Rupert off the top of the  "Best Albert" list.

[MrsMoltisanti]

I find it hard to believe that they had to put up with that motley crew looking after the house for them, I am sure that there were many nicer kinder people who could be hired - not stealers, and folks who would melt mutton candles over peoples heads during a ball, not to mention rats surrounding the Queen on her birthday.  And no one says much....or even questions the shoddiness of the care of the running of the household.  Not one of her ladies said "by the way, there was beef fat dripping on us at the party, you may want to look into this."

[TaurusRose]

27 minutes ago, MrsMoltisanti said:

I find it hard to believe that they had to put up with that motley crew looking after the house for them, I am sure that there were many nicer kinder people who could be hired - not stealers, and folks who would melt mutton candles over peoples heads during a ball, not to mention rats surrounding the Queen on her birthday.  And no one says much....or even questions the shoddiness of the care of the running of the household.  Not one of her ladies said "by the way, there was beef fat dripping on us at the party, you may want to look into this."

LOL  Okay, I believe mutton is made from sheep (lamb specifically), so it would not have been beef fat dripping on them.  Also, I don't think any of the Queen's ladies would be so bold as to bring household matters to her.  :-)

[MrsMoltisanti]

Quote

LOL  Okay, I believe mutton is made from sheep (lamb specifically), so it would not have been beef fat dripping on them.  Also, I don't think any of the Queen's ladies would be so bold as to bring household matters to her.  :-)

I didn't even think of that! So there was sheep fat dripping on them, tallow candles I think to be specific.  Wouldn't anyone have noticed though and have been in a position to mention it to anyone who could have done something about it?  I mean, she's the Queen!  Rats, fat drips, people stealing her stuff....It's bad any way you look at it!  

[humbleopinion]

Playing TOO fast and loose with protocol...The downstairs help would not so openly show the struggle for power by shaming the household with cheap candles dripping on the royal guests.

Details like that make me sad for this production after years of watching Downton Abbey, we know better.

Bet The Oracle from Downton Abbey is  tsk tsking the story line.

Edited January 24, 2017 by humbleopinion
repeated

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

Playing TOO fast and loose with protocol...The downstairs help would not so openly show the struggle for power by shaming the household with cheap candles dripping on the royal guests.

Details like that make me sad for this production after years of watching Downton Abbey, we know better.

Bet The Oracle from Downton Abbey is  tsk tsking the story line.

I am going to take a discussion of this over to the History thread.

[attica]

4 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Rupert Friend is my benchmark Albert.

I've always liked Jonathan Firth's (Colin's brother) take on the role from a tv movie some years back Victoria and Albert. Victoria Hamilton played Vic like a dream. Of course, that covered all of their married life, so JF got to get paunchy and bald, which Rupert never had to. 

[Badger]

I loved "Victoria and Albert."  They used to run it on BBCAmerica all the time.

[scenicbyway]

Lord M is going to be a hard act for Albert to follow.  His introduction at the piano did him no favors with that icky facial hair.

I guess it was interesting to see Victoria confess her feelings to Lord M, they had been working closely together for 2 years at that point.  I still think it's artistic license to think that there would've been something romantic there with him being so significantly older than her.  He does seem to be the only one who's truly in her corner, so that might've been enough to attract feelings.  It did seem like he was playing with her a bit though, after rejecting her, sending her those flowers.  Even the lady in waiting knew what was up.

Bye Conroy, don't let the door hit you!  Her poor mother, not realizing that the guy just wanted money or power or both.

I'm finding this series really dark.  The lighting, costumes and storylines.  It's fun to see how candles would've lit the palace.  But I've been there, there's a lot of color in the palace and mirrors everywhere, surely this would've made things brighter.  Surely drapes would've been thrown back and natural light flooding in through the day.  I expected a little more lightness from the story (she's a young queen after all) and not so much of the court backstabbing.  

[Dirtybubble]

4 hours ago, MrsMoltisanti said:

I find it hard to believe that they had to put up with that motley crew looking after the house for them, I am sure that there were many nicer kinder people who could be hired - not stealers, and folks who would melt mutton candles over peoples heads during a ball, not to mention rats surrounding the Queen on her birthday.  And no one says much....or even questions the shoddiness of the care of the running of the household.  Not one of her ladies said "by the way, there was beef fat dripping on us at the party, you may want to look into this."

This is what has really been bothering me about this show!  I've become accustomed to the serious nature of Mr. Carson & Ms. Hughes at Downton and how nice and tightly the house is run so to see a PALACE run by, what appears to be, the immaturity of their head butler, chef, etc. just seems so weird.  Maybe the characters aren't fleshed out enough.  When I see the head butler taking bets on who Victoria will marry and the head chef harassing one of the girls I just shake my head--not professional and not what  I would expect from a royal staff.

[PJ123]

Yep..skipping the "downstairs"....zzzzzzzz.  Don't care.  They bring nothing to this show.

Yes that camera angle introducing Albert was not very good.  Instead of swooning I laughed.  I really want to like this series but I guess at this point its just "meh".  :-(

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, attica said:

I've always liked Jonathan Firth's (Colin's brother) take on the role from a tv movie some years back Victoria and Albert. Victoria Hamilton played Vic like a dream. Of course, that covered all of their married life, so JF got to get paunchy and bald, which Rupert never had to. 

 

3 hours ago, Badger said:

I loved "Victoria and Albert."  They used to run it on BBCAmerica all the time.

Me too. I ended up buying it on DVD years ago.

[JudyObscure]

17 hours ago, PJ123 said:

Yes that camera angle introducing Albert was not very good.  Instead of swooning I laughed.  I really want to like this series but I guess at this point its just "meh".  :-(

Heck yeah! I think the actor is extremely good looking, so I watched the entire episode just waiting for the moment when he walked up all tall and handsome in that uniform and we see Victoria's eyes widen as she sways slightly, in an English royal version of the Italian thunderbolt  But no. Instead we get an up-nostril look that reminded me of my dentist.

[Dirtybubble]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Instead we get an up-nostril look that reminded me of my dentist.

LMAO!  I wonder why they (the producers/director) choose that way to introduce him after sooo much build up?!  In the previews for next week it does show off his good looks a bit more though I'm not really wild about the facial hair plus I'm still kinda bummed this means Lord M is moving out of the picture =(  I am very curious as to how this show is going to show their marriage especially after the children start arriving.  From what  I've heard and read they had a very, very passionate  relationship and since this is PBS obviously they can't show a lot but wow-wowzers if even half the rumors are true.....

[iMonrey]

Quote

Is the actor who plays Leopold the same one who plays David/Edward VIII in The Crown?

Thank you. Was trying to figure that out. And now I'm trying to figure out how Leopold I could be related to Edward VIII. The latter would have been his great, great, great nephew. Ironic. 

Quote

 I don't even know any of their names.  I don't know any of her ladies in waiting - they are all just a mosh of unrecognizable faces.

I don't think the "downstairs" story is working very well either and feels too much like an attempt to ape Downton Abbey. I don't have a good handle on Victoria's ladies either, and perhaps that's where they should have focused their B plots, instead of on the servants. There are enough aristocrats in Victoria's inner circle to supply various supporting story lines. 

I also don't get what was going on with the rats. Is the butler guy actually paying the rat catcher to release more rats into the palace, so that Baroness Lehzen will keep shelling out money for their removal?