S01.E05: Everybody Lies

[formerlyfreedom]

Desperately seeking revenge for the death of her sister, West tracks down Dorothy and uses enchanted interrogation techniques to get the information she needs. The Wizard seeks the aid of the Kingdom of Ev to build a weapons arsenal to help him defeat the Beast Forever. Meanwhile, an old acquaintance may hold to the key to Lucas recovering his lost memories.

 

[Primetimer]

...or just a severely emotionally damaged witch?

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[Morrigan2575]

Ok first the weird stuff. Isn't Lady Ev too old for Jack? Is she supposed to be a teen because she looks like a 20 something hooking up with a teenage boy.

Now, for the good stuff. I loved this episode. Loved that we got answers to some questions and new mysteries. I kind of figured The Wizard would end up being Dorothy's father, at least that's the impression I got from the end.

Loved Lucas and little girl bonding (what is her name?). I especially loved the end scene where Toto found the little girl.

Loved all of the scenes with West and Dorothy. Once again Emerald City makes me hate/annoyed with Tip only to have her come through in the end. She's got a good heart, just really messed up.

Now for the ending. How awesome was the use of Pink Floyd during the walk through Emerald City at night? My first thought was that the song just fit the atmosphere then of course I giggled when I remembered the whole Dark Side of Oz thing.  Fantastic album and one of my favorite songs from it.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[thuganomics85]

"Everybody Lies"?  Sounds like the episode title for an episode of House.

Man, Dorothy got put through the ringer.  I'm guessing all those torturing scenes involved a bunch of harnesses, ropes, and CGI, but it looked painful.  Props to Adria Arjona for selling it.  But West finds out that East was trying to warn her about Glinda, so Dorothy escaping isn't a complete bust for her.  The green outfit West was wearing was something.  For a second, I thought she was going for a Poison Ivy-ish look, but I think those were some kind of butterflies instead.

Got a kick out of everyone in the brothel just falling silent when Glinda showed up.  She sure knows how to make an entrance!

Lucas finds out that he was a brutal warrior that murdered a lot of men, and is now turned himself in and willing to be punished for it.  Poor Lucas.

Jack and Lady Ev are kind of sweet, kind of creepy.  I mean, I know in real life the actor playing Jack is in his twenties, but it feels like Jack is suppose to be a teen, and while it's hard to really tell how hold Lady Ev is under the mask, she seems like more of an adult.  Still, I like the idea of her learning how to make an actual friend.

Tip has one hell of a poker face!

Adviser whose name I can't remember is so not happy over how Anna has become The Wizard's favorite.

How did I miss that Gina Bellman was Dorothy's mom?  Man, Leverage was an awesome show.  I can only imagine what kind of heists and mischief they would get into in Oz!

Dorothy and The Wizard finally meet!!

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

The green outfit West was wearing was something. 

It almost looked like there were jalapenos all over it.

Quote

Jack and Lady Ev are kind of sweet, kind of creepy.  I mean, I know in real life the actor playing Jack is in his twenties, but it feels like Jack is suppose to be a teen, and while it's hard to really tell how hold Lady Ev is under the mask, she seems like more of an adult.  Still, I like the idea of her learning how to make an actual friend.

I enjoy watching Lady Ev. She's eccentric and pretty, but intelligent as well. Jackwidere doesn't really gross me out, to be honest.

Quote

I giggled when I remembered the whole Dark Side of Oz thing. 

Someone else got that reference! That makes me happy.

Quote

Now, for the good stuff. I loved this episode. Loved that we got answers to some questions and new mysteries. I kind of figured The Wizard would end up being Dorothy's father, at least that's the impression I got from the end.

I'm glad we're getting some answers, too. There's a lot of plot threads happening at once, but we've got a better grip on them now. I'm curious to see how everything connects. It probably has to do with the Beast Forever.

Dang. Glinda just gets shiftier every episode.

[KaveDweller]

52 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Ok first the weird stuff. Isn't Lady Ev too old for Jack? Is she supposed to be a teen because she looks like a 20 something hooking up with a teenage boy.

Now, for the good stuff. I loved this episode. Loved that we got answers to some questions and new mysteries. I kind of figured The Wizard would end up being Dorothy's father, at least that's the impression I got from the end.

Loved Lucas and little girl bonding (what is her name?). I especially loved the end scene where Toto found the little girl.

Loved all of the scenes with West and Dorothy. Once again Emerald City makes me hate/annoyed with Tip only to have her come through in the end. She's got a good heart, just really messed up.

Now for the ending. How awesome was the use of Pink Floyd during the walk through Emerald City at night? My first thought was that the song just fit the atmosphere then of course I giggled when I remembered the whole Dark Side of Oz thing.  Fantastic album and one of my favorite songs from it.

I got the sense The Wizard was her father too. I think it would be a fun twist if her mother was from Oz and took Dorothy away to our world as a baby.

I also thought the music at the end was just TV music and not music the characters were hearing at first.

Edited January 28, 2017 by KaveDweller

[Morrigan2575]

Oh I forgot. Confirmation that Mistress South really was the Mother of all Witches.  1000 children? I'm assuming she was very long lived.

If Dorothy is a Witch does that mean Karen Chapman is Mistress South? Or is Dorothy some new form of Magic?  

[Fireball]

The wizard really needs to beef up security; Dorothy just waltzed right in!

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

If Dorothy is a Witch does that mean Karen Chapman is Mistress South? Or is Dorothy some new form of Magic?  

In my opinion, it's still unclear whether or not Dorothy is a witch. We know she can wield the Ruby Gauntlets, but that could be the gauntlets, not her. That being said, I would be shocked if she didn't turn out to be one. Most of the characters are assuming she is because they believe guns are magical.

Edited January 28, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[mjc570]

This show is starting to lose me.  I don't even know why, but I'm not just interested in Dorothy anymore - it's already been established that she is unthinking and impulsive, now she is shown to be credulous if not stupid in falling for that obvious ruse.  I don't know if its an acting thing, but (to me), she just isn't that good, she can't even limp properly (her cut was cut, so why was she dragging along the floor, rather than limping or trying to stay off it).  The fact that I would even spend time thinking about minor stuff like that shows me that maybe I'm just not that interested in the story itself.

I did like the Lucas/Sylvie combo, so of course, they're split up.  Why didn't Sylvie find Dorothy when she was running around the city?  I thought she could sense her.  I'm glad that Toto found Sylvie, I was wondering where he's been.

I also like the Princess, at least she is direct and funny.  I was looking forward to a friendship developing between her and Jack, not a lover relationship because I think he is just too young.

I also was amazed that Dorothy could just literally walk into the Wizard's bedroom.  What happened to his Guard?  I know some were killed by Lucas, but there must be some others, or at least the doorman.  Well, at least it moves the story along.

[slf]

I can honestly say West got on my last nerve tonight. Partially it's the weird Fairuza Balk-esque quality to the actress' performance but partially it's because there's really nothing to like about West. I'm starting to think, cold tho she is, Glinda may be the one to root for here.

Tip can be stone cold but still has a heart. I bet being abducted, locked away for more than ten years, and magically altered to be a boy only to find out you're a girl probably gives one issues. Poor kid. Glad she pulled through in the end.

I can't get with Jack and Lady Ev. Everything we've seen so far suggests Jack isn't much older than Tip who is clearly underage because she was sent to an orphanage. Lady Ev reads as being at least Dorothy's age which is early twenties. Also, she had him brought to her against his will, was using him as an indentured servant, and laughed at him in public as he struggled with his new body. She may be pretty but she's too rude for my tastes. I hope Jack gets away from her and finds Dorothy soon.

This was the weakest ep for me, so far.

[LittleIggy]

I still love this show although West gets on my last nerve. I'm glad the guantlets blasted her.

So happy to see Toto again! That little girl is adorable.

[Zanne]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

  The green outfit West was wearing was something.  For a second, I thought she was going for a Poison Ivy-ish look, but I think those were some kind of butterflies instead.

I thought the dress was covered with green beetle wings. You more commonly see them in jewelry, but I suppose you could attach them to fabric.

[sjohnson]

"Keep your hands to yourself." They went there. But I think that sometimes denying the obvious just makes you look stupid, so they had too. 

As to Jack/Langwidere, Langwidere is a huge improvement over Tip. Sucks to be Jack. (Jack could hardly be less than sixteen and Langwider at most is mid-twenties. A ten year age difference isn't so much. The real objection to boys is they are low status, but Jack just beat up four men, so that doesn't apply in his case.)

The curving benches with the mosaics where Jack and Langwidere were talking were amazing. 

Didn't believe Tip's change of heart. 

For my taste, there's a lot of Game of Thrones weakness here, which is that everybody farting around instead of concentrating on the real enemy comes across as some sort of robot mouse mindlessly chasing a cheese token. For me it's harder to invest in people whose goals are petty and trivial, no matter how cool they look while they chase them. That's not moral agency, and agency is an heroic attribute. Hard to watch the game without anyone to root for. The Wizard is pretty Jon Snow-esque in being the only one seriously fighting the enemy, but knowing nothing and achieving less. 

And yes, Pink Floyd was fantastic, right up there with Elmer Bernstein's Paint It Black in Westworld in my opinion.

Really, I suppose the show is a classic example of a "hot mess," especially if you remember the Oz books better than I do. But I guess I'm in, for me there's more hot than mess. YMMV.

Edited January 28, 2017 by sjohnson

[AzureOwl]

12 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Ok first the weird stuff. Isn't Lady Ev too old for Jack? Is she supposed to be a teen because she looks like a 20 something hooking up with a teenage boy.

Langwidere said in this episode that she was a small child during the last attack of the Beast Forever, which took place circa 20 years ago, meaning she has to be in her mid to late 20s.

There's also a good chance that Jack himself is around 20, if Tip is who I think she is.

Quote

Now, for the good stuff. I loved this episode. Loved that we got answers to some questions and new mysteries. I kind of figured The Wizard would end up being Dorothy's father, at least that's the impression I got from the end.

That's interesting because I figure there's as much a chance that he's playing her.

He already knew she was from our world because of the bullet they pulled out of Eammon and he could've found out her name from Eammon, who learned it from the pill bottle he found outside Mistress East's palace.

The Wizard manipulating her into doing his dirty work after their first meeting would be a nice parallel to the original story. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by AzureOwl

[adam807]

12 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Ok first the weird stuff. Isn't Lady Ev too old for Jack? Is she supposed to be a teen because she looks like a 20 something hooking up with a teenage boy.

FWIW the actors are around the same age, but yeah...the actor playing Jack is older than he looks and certainly older than he's been portrayed so far. 

[Fireball]

11 hours ago, slf said:

I can't get with Jack and Lady Ev. Everything we've seen so far suggests Jack isn't much older than Tip who is clearly underage because she was sent to an orphanage. Lady Ev reads as being at least Dorothy's age which is early twenties. Also, she had him brought to her against his will, was using him as an indentured servant, and laughed at him in public as he struggled with his new body. She may be pretty but she's too rude for my tastes. I hope Jack gets away from her and finds Dorothy soon.

The bolded is the main problem IMO with the pairing.  Lady Ev claims to own Jack and that he's her property which IMO makes the kiss and potential romance creepy...

[iMonrey]

I think I'm finally starting to warm up to this show. There were lots of nice little touches to this episode I appreciated - like the way the gauntlets zapped West, same as the ruby slippers zapped the wicked witch of the west in the movie. And I like the way Lady Ev is more or less styled to look like she did in the books WRT her hair.

I'm wondering if Langwidere wears masks because she was disfigured by The Beast. And what the hell is "The Beast" anyway? Whatever it is, it can apparently be killed with bullets, according to the wizard. In that festival they were having the Beast was represented by a Chinese dragon, oddly enough. 

I'll be interested to see where they go with Dorothy and the wizard; this episode had me wondering if they would end up working together since they are both essentially "frauds." 

[mammaM]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I think I'm finally starting to warm up to this show. There were lots of nice little touches to this episode I appreciated - like the way the gauntlets zapped West, same as the ruby slippers zapped the wicked witch of the west in the movie. And I like the way Lady Ev is more or less styled to look like she did in the books WRT her hair.

I'm wondering if Langwidere wears masks because she was disfigured by The Beast. And what the hell is "The Beast" anyway? Whatever it is, it can apparently be killed with bullets, according to the wizard. In that festival they were having the Beast was represented by a Chinese dragon, oddly enough. 

I'll be interested to see where they go with Dorothy and the wizard; this episode had me wondering if they would end up working together since they are both essentially "frauds." 

I had a theory about The Beast Forever that I keep waffling on. What if it's a term for a natural catastrophe that just happens. It was said the beast comes in different forms every time, last time was floods, this time someone said fire then Anna said the bit about heart, widsom and courage (I'm paraphrasing). And that sounds like Dorothy and company is the Beast, Dorothy is the next threat to Oz, or if not threat exactly, a great change. The last time the Beast came so did the Wizard and Oz changed alot since he took charge. I don't know, just a theory

[cooksdelight]

"Everyone lies"... that's a famous line from Det. Goren/D'Onofrio's shrink in his last season on Law & Order: Criminal Intent. Can't wait to see how his story plays out with Dorothy.

Tinman/Jack is a badass, don't mess with him or he'll put your eye out. Or something.

You'd think West would have backed off after getting her arms jacked up with the superpower gloves Dorothy has.

Edited January 28, 2017 by cooksdelight

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, mammaM said:

I had a theory about The Beast Forever that I keep waffling on. What if it's a term for a natural catastrophe that just happens. It was said the beast comes in different forms every time, last time was floods, this time someone said fire then Anna said the bit about heart, widsom and courage (I'm paraphrasing). And that sounds like Dorothy and company is the Beast, Dorothy is the next threat to Oz, or if not threat exactly, a great change. The last time the Beast came so did the Wizard and Oz changed alot since he took charge. I don't know, just a theory

I thought the Beast was natural causes too - except Anna said that the Beast possessed those women to make them do the suicide ritual - so I'm not so sure.  Either Anna is right and it was the Beast who possessed them to illustrate a connection to impotence (just like the Wizard is impotent to stop the Beast), or maybe it was just natural occurrences.  But I think it's more than that.

I really enjoyed this episode - the characters are finally coming together and the connections between them are coming more clear.  

I am not really sure that Dorothy is The Wizard's - I feel like he's playing her.

I just love Lucas.  I had trouble discerning what that guard was saying.  Did he say, Lucas was driving a wagon and when they tried to pull him over and look inside of it, he came out with a sword and killed them all?  So the question is  -  what was in the wagon and why did he kill to protect it?  Was it Sylvie?  Is Sylvie the beast forever?  

Was Lucas dragging what had been in Nimbe?  Remember when the guards tried to look at it and then Anna touched it and it exploded?  Was that what Lucas was carrying in the wagon?  And was that something that inhabited Sylvie?  She didn't seem able to do what she did to those two people until after Anna set loose whatever that was in the room.

West gets on my nerves.  She's so ... ugh... messy.  Tip continues to be a favorite - but I hated how she blamed Dorothy for what happened to her.  Dorothy helped her when she asked - it's not Dorothy's fault what happened next.  Her logic is screwy and nuts.  

Lady Ev/Languidwere (whatever her name is) - I don't like her.  First of all, you cannot be friends with someone you've enslaved.  Plus, she's simply an entitled bitch.  The ONLY time I was remotely interested in her was when she was mean to the Wizard - I could see how losing her mother and entire kingdom of people would be hard.  But I'm kinda over characters who are like this - mean and entitled and bossy initially and then we the audience are expected to empathize with them and look beyond the bitchiness to find the good person within - basically another Blair Waldorf redux.  And I love Blair Waldorf.  But just no.

Anna bothers me.  Probably because she comes off as entitled and self righteous.  Plus she acts like a know-it-all.  And I'm pissed she replaced the Asian character they had before.  And that SHE comes off as the "right one" against the black one.  It just rubs me all kinds of the wrong way.  I just get tired of the white girl centering.

Glnda - what is she on about?

Tip - how did she avoid having her soul read by West?  Is her mind unsearchable?  Is she able to project a false picture to West?  Really curious about that.

[Just Here]

16 hours ago, mjc570 said:

I also was amazed that Dorothy could just literally walk into the Wizard's bedroom.  What happened to his Guard?  I know some were killed by Lucas, but there must be some others, or at least the doorman.  Well, at least it moves the story along.

 

16 hours ago, Fireball said:

The wizard really needs to beef up security; Dorothy just waltzed right in!

Well, it was the night of a major holiday in the Emerald City, so there may have been just a skeleton crew, and those that were on duty may have been less than sober. Though, they should have shown Dorothy at least getting past one guard somehow, but that might have been cut for time.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

"Everyone lies"... that's a famous line from Det. Goren/D'Onofrio's shrink in his last season on Law & Order: Criminal Intent.

Glad I wasn't the only one that thought/remembered this. So the title was a cool bit of a wink, to me. Lord knows Goren said that - a lot - in S10!

[tennisgurl]

Wow, they went full on Pink Floyd! What a great way to introduce the Emerald City to Dorothy. I totally thought it was just atmospheric TV music, until Dorothy started to react to it.

Looks like the storylines are all starting to come together, even if the characters are all still mostly separated. It seems like everyone is still moving into the places they need to be ala Game of Thrones.

Tip certainly knows how to hold a grudge! She did come around though, she gets some points for that. And she has one hell of a poker face. At least she's just West`s tea girl, instead of one of her...other employees.

I still feel like I have no idea what is going on with Glinda and West. Glinda seems sketchy, and is apparently planning something against her sister, but West just tortured Dorothy, so who am I supposed to like here? Maybe they both just suck.

I feel like Jack and Lady Eve aren't supposed to be that different in age, but a romance between them still seems rather icky. She did, like, buy him, and romances between people who own people and their property usually don't go super well. Maybe if she learns about the true meaning of friendship and frees him it would be less weird, but still. I do like Lady Eve though. She's bratty, but interesting. And the guy who plays Jack does a great job. I loved when he realized that "Oh yeah, I'm half made of metal!", and started kicking ass.

That's one hell of a dress you got there, West.

[jhlipton]

Just now, thuganomics85 said:

Adviser whose name I can't remember is so not happy over how Anna has become The Wizard's favorite.

The black advisor's name is Elizabeth.

Just now, phoenics said:

Tip continues to be a favorite - but I hated how she blamed Dorothy for what happened to her.  Dorothy helped her when she asked - it's not Dorothy's fault what happened next.  Her logic is screwy and nuts. 

Anna bothers me.  Probably because she comes off as entitled and self righteous.  Plus she acts like a know-it-all.  And I'm pissed she replaced the Asian character they had before.  And that SHE comes off as the "right one" against the black one.  It just rubs me all kinds of the wrong way.  I just get tired of the white girl centering.

To be fair to Tip, she's only been this person for a very short while and is having a hard time dealing with it.  So of course she'd blame anyone who was involved in her transformation.

It looks like about 2 seconds makes up all East was in this episode -- and only stern (Angry Black Woman Syndrome alert!) never merciful.  It's terrible what short-shrift she's getting.

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

It's terrible what short-shrift she's getting.

I'm hoping she comes back somehow later in the series. (More likely if there's a second season, but I don't see that happening.) There's seems to be more to explore with her.

[tennisgurl]

I also hope we see more of East. She came off across as stern and villainess when we met her, but other people have spoken of her being merciful and loving. There was apparently more to her than what met the eye. Plus, her outfits are all kinds of awesome. The more witches the better.

[Camera One]

I'm assuming they'll have a "20 years ago" flashback episode.

I still think this show is pretty consistent in quality, despite not really liking any of the characters, with the exception of Dorothy and Lucas.  But with Dorothy, this episode was basically watching her be tortured.  I'm not sure why she told West about the gun.  It didn't seem like she was planning the same trick of trying to get her to shoot herself.   And blindly going to see the Wizard because unreliable people told her to?  She didn't get the memo the Wizard's guards were trying to capture her?  

Why was Eammon suddenly all sympathetic and nice in this episode?  It seemed like a 360 switch.  

I also don't get why Lucas turned himself in.  He just killed a bunch of guards 10 seconds before.  How can it be a big deal to learn he killed a bunch of men previously?  

The Beast is still not all that intriguing to me.

I am glad that everyone is in Emerald City now.  It was nice to see some new character pairings in this one, though I miss "the team".  The torture stuff made this episode drag a bit.

[dargosmydaddy]

11 hours ago, Camera One said:

I also don't get why Lucas turned himself in.  He just killed a bunch of guards 10 seconds before.  How can it be a big deal to learn he killed a bunch of men previously?  

I kind of thought he had an "Oh my god" moment both about what the soldier said he'd done previously, and also what he'd just done (killing the soldiers at the festival)... but yeah, I don't know if I buy that either. And him leaving Sylvie to fend for herself seemed particularly not right.

Loved Jack's panicked, "Friends don't do that!" after Ev's kiss-- at least he learned his lesson from Tip. No kissing your friend unless you want to get thrown off a building!

Edited January 29, 2017 by dargosmydaddy

[Camera One]

Yeah, the first few men Lucas defended himself again, he seemed to have just put out of commission.  But then, he started breaking their necks.  And then he stopped just because of what that guy said, and that's when I went, "huh?"

It's like Dorothy got free, so now Lucas must be in custody.  

[Ariah]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Yeah, the first few men Lucas defended himself again, he seemed to have just put out of commission.  But then, he started breaking their necks.  And then he stopped just because of what that guy said, and that's when I went, "huh?"

It's like Dorothy got free, so now Lucas must be in custody.  

The way I see it is that once Lucas passes a certain point, he cannot very much control himself and just goes berserk. It happened with Mombi, it happened with the guards now. 

So, it happened twice before the eyes of people he kind of cares about - Dorothy and Silvie.

He even said to Silvie, "I don't want to hurt you too".

He stopped when the guard (Toby's his name, btw) mentioned the wound - the wound that Dorothy patched. So, Lucas might have stopped himself not because of Toby's words, but because he suddenly remembered Dorothy and her terrified face when he bludgeoned Mombi with a water pitcher.

He believes he may not stop himself in time one day, and endanger Dorothy and Silvie. I think he considers himself a lose cannon, and, judging from his words about Dorothy's gun (no one should be able to wield such power so easily), he would rather isolate himself from others and face punishment. Because maybe, just maybe, the punishment will bring back his humanity.

[Camera One]

The way I see it is that once Lucas passes a certain point, he cannot very much control himself and just goes berserk. It happened with Mombi, it happened with the guards now.

Yeah, I was wondering if that might be what they were going for, though they didn't do the frenetic camera thing they did with Mombi.

[slf]

9 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Loved Jack's panicked, "Friends don't do that!" after Ev's kiss-- at least he learned his lesson from Tip. No kissing your friend unless you want to get thrown off a building!

If he's closer to Lady Ev's age than Tip's he might've deserved to get pushed off a building. This show is a mess.

I assume Jack won't be in Ev for long if he's the Tin Man. He has to hook up with Dorothy and Lucas at some point so they can all be the Beast Forever together.

[Fireball]

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 9:24 PM, mjc570 said:

This show is starting to lose me.  I don't even know why, but I'm not just interested in Dorothy anymore - it's already been established that she is unthinking and impulsive, now she is shown to be credulous if not stupid in falling for that obvious ruse.  I don't know if its an acting thing, but (to me), she just isn't that good, she can't even limp properly (her cut was cut, so why was she dragging along the floor, rather than limping or trying to stay off it).  The fact that I would even spend time thinking about minor stuff like that shows me that maybe I'm just not that interested in the story itself.

In Dorothy's defense she was just tortured and she's new to the whole magic thing. But I was right there with you thinking "really Dorothy this is so obviously a ruse". However, I do think the scene would have worked better if this had been the first time we had seen that West has the ability to change her appearance.

[Morrigan2575]

38 minutes ago, slf said:

If he's closer to Lady Ev's age than Tip's he might've deserved to get pushed off a building. This show is a mess.

I assume Jack won't be in Ev for long if he's the Tin Man. He has to hook up with Dorothy and Lucas at some point so they can all be the Beast Forever together.

A poster on another board said that Jack was 16. Not sure where they got the age from but, he does look like a teenager.  As others have pointed out, Lady Ev is in her mid 20s since she was a child when the Beast Forever tried to drown everyone.

[TexasGal]

On 1/28/2017 at 8:10 AM, sjohnson said:

 

The curving benches with the mosaics where Jack and Langwidere were talking were amazing. 

Does anyone know where this is filmed?  The benches seemed very Barcelona to me but I don't know if I'm actually remembering seeing them there or if they just have the same vibe.  Gorgeous.

[mammaM]

I seem to remember reading that the Wizard's palace were filmed in Park Guell, Barcelona. Gaudi architecture, named after Spanish architect Antoni Gaudi

[tennisgurl]

When West was doing her mom impression, it reminded me of the scene in the Wizard of Oz movie where the Wicked Witch pretended to be Auntie Em in her crystal ball. Or maybe that almost exact scene from Spaceballs. "Foooooled Yooooou!"

[OoogleEyes]

5 hours ago, TexasGal said:

Does anyone know where this is filmed?  The benches seemed very Barcelona to me but I don't know if I'm actually remembering seeing them there or if they just have the same vibe.  Gorgeous.

According to IMDB, Barcelona. Good LORD, they were gorgeous!

[dr pepper]

Heh, Pink Floyd. I actually don't have a problem with the batteries. I assume he got Ev to make some, though presumably they would be like Volta's original "piles" and wouldn't last very long. What i find a little difficult is that the sport walkman is still bright yellow and the casette tape hasn't stretched at all.

[attica]

Pfft. Who ever listened to Floyd on cassette?!?  :)

[slf]

On 1/29/2017 at 9:24 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

A poster on another board said that Jack was 16. Not sure where they got the age from but, he does look like a teenager.  As others have pointed out, Lady Ev is in her mid 20s since she was a child when the Beast Forever tried to drown everyone.

So either Jack and Tip are teens which makes West and Lady Ev gross bad touchers, or Jack is in his twenties which makes his relationship with Lady Ev fine but makes his sexual pass at Tip gross af. Yikes, what a situation.

Jack is being portrayed as a teenage boy, in my opinion. So I hope like hell he gets away from Lady Ev and Tip gets away from West and those two kids can work their friendship out.

[sjohnson]

This article http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/young-londoner-jordan-loughran-gets-her-big-break-on-the-disney-road-to-film-stardom-9407837.html says Jordan Loughran was twenty four nearly two years ago, so I'd say all three are about the same age. To my eyes, the one who looks the youngest is Jack, but I suspect that's largely because female makeup is meant to make younger women look more experienced (that is, sexually available.) To me, it was the notion that Tip was young enough to put in an orphanage that wasn't really believable if you dared let yourself think about it. So I'm not really seeing any ickiness. 

[lezlers]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 7:24 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

A poster on another board said that Jack was 16. Not sure where they got the age from but, he does look like a teenager.  As others have pointed out, Lady Ev is in her mid 20s since she was a child when the Beast Forever tried to drown everyone.

I'm not sure why everyone's so hung up on this.  This is Oz.  It's an enchanted land.  It doesn't look like they have the modern day type of society that we have here.  In fact, it seems to be based on our society maybe a couple of centuries ago, with an enchanted twist.  A couple of centuries ago no one would blink at a 24 year old and a 16 year old.

[Mojeaux]

I am also not hung up on Lady Ev and Jack. Furthermore, Lady Ev’s cruelty is that of a child because socially she is one. She’s been isolated while ALSO engaging in the politics of having to herd a senile king as a clever and politically savvy player. She’s messed up. I DO fault Jack for giving in so easily. He doesn’t seem that needy now that he’s on his own and he has a reason to distrust everyone.

Re the Walkman and batteries: There was a cord Dorothy followed from the phonograph to the Walkman. I inferred that it wasn’t just a speaker cord.

Dorothy was limping because the Bad Handmaiden had crushed her foot. Plus, she was barefoot. I have mixed feelings about Lucas turning himself in. Didn’t anyone ASK why he might have felt compelled to kill a bunch of men? His violent outbursts are triggered when someone he cares about is threatened. I believe Eamonn was the only one who thought about it and wanted to buy time to find out.

As for Eamonn’s tender feelings, he’s the top of the heap in the wizard’s guard. It’s his job to be a cold-hearted bastard. So he goes home to a family he loves. So do cops.

I like the complexity and moral ambiguity of this show. I broke up with Once Upon a Time after 3 seasons for various reasons but one was because Regina didn’t stay evil and she had illogical motives that changed according to what that episode needed because the writers wrote themselves into a corner they could never seem to get out of. I broke up with Librarians because it just doesn’t have anything for me anymore. Standard good v evil blah blah blah. This show seems to have an end game.

So we will see. I was perturbed that Dorothy fell for West’s glamour and that she just walked into the palace unhindered. And she magically escaped the garderobe dump.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Mojeaux

[12catcrazy]

I'm not one for fantasy or sci-fi tv shows in general but I'm finding myself glued to the tv while this is one (or should I say to my DVR).   The sets are stunning, some of the costumes are beautiful, the acting is okay, and the story itself is intriguing.  What, indeed, is the end game here?  I think there's going to be lots of twists to this story!  

The thing I'm finding very off-putting is the amount of violence.  I actually winced while watching West torture Dorothy.   God forbid they show a woman's breast on network television but it's a-okay to show torture, throat slashing, bullets in the head, etc.   The 1939 movie was pretty scary in places  and yet didn't rub our noses in gore.  

I do like that this show is also very Female driven.  Dorothy, the Witches, Tip, Lady Ev - all major characters - good, bad, and evil.  

[LocimusPrime]

On 1/30/2017 at 2:16 AM, dr pepper said:

Heh, Pink Floyd. I actually don't have a problem with the batteries. I assume he got Ev to make some, though presumably they would be like Volta's original "piles" and wouldn't last very long. What i find a little difficult is that the sport walkman is still bright yellow and the casette tape hasn't stretched at all.

My Walkman is still in perfect shape and all of my super jam and super dance remix tapes are still operable. They sound great. In fact I'm about to make a new mix tape 

[rubinia]

On 1/29/2017 at 3:28 PM, OoogleEyes said:

According to IMDB, Barcelona. Good LORD, they were gorgeous!

Pretty sure it's Park Guell in Barcelona. Gaudi, the architect, is known for that style with the colorful mosaics.

[JenE4]

Add one more vote for the theory that the Wizard is Dorothy's father. I thought perhaps it was foreshadowing in a previous episode when West said to the Wizard that the nun (I think; I'm still not really sure what the Wizard's female assistants are as compared to Glinda's nuns, but I think hers are in training to be his??) anyway, that the assistant was the daughter of one of his previous assistants. They gave each other a look, and West said, don't worry, she's not yours. To me that implied that he knew he had an orphaned child that age who might be back in town. But if the Wizard is an ordinary man and Dorothy has powers, that means her mother had to have been a witch--I would presume. So would a witch be working under the Wizard? Maybe when he surpressed the magic he could have made witches subservient to him.

But then when West said her mother, South, had 1,000 babies, I also assumed that Dorothy is one of those babies, they're sisters, and Karen is South.** It COULD be that Dorothy was one of her last--or a special Cardinal Witch--baby and she knew the Wizard would harm their baby and that's why she brought Dorothy to another realm to protect her. That might also explain how Dorothy was just now able to travel between realms. Karen leaves Oz via "the Beast"*** weather 20 years ago, opening up some type of space continuum. Now she does the same thing again to try to see Dorothy 20 years later. The Beast tornado comes to take Karen back to Oz, but since Karen is injured (dead?) and Dorothy is there and the Beast recognizes her witch genes, it takes her back instead.

**However, I realize that it's more likely that Karen is sisters with West and Glinda, as they're all in their 40s. But I'm still confused on the witch part of the story. But somehow Karen is one of the missing cardinal witches even though I thought "mother" was South. 

***i'm even MORE confused on the Beast thing, so that's probably the weakest part of my all-around weak theory, lol. I probably got that all wrong. But I think they're telegraphing Wizard dad and Karen as witch mom.

Edited February 2, 2017 by JenE4

[LocimusPrime]

Tip is annoying. So she's begs Dorothy to save her and now she blames her. Ungrateful!  Vindictive.  Annoying. Plus she almost killed her best friend for no apparent reason.