S03.E10: Borrowing Problems from the Future

[Trini]

Quote

BARRY FIGHTS FOR IRIS - Barry is tormented by his vision of the future where Iris is murdered by Savitar. When a criminal named Plunder (guest star Stephen Huszar) shows up in Central City, Barry recalls the villain's presence in his vision of the future and fears that if he catches Plunder, it will cement Iris' fate. Confused about Barry's hesitation to stop Plunder, Wally decides to step in as Kid Flash. Caitlin offers Julian a job.

Millicent Shelton directed the episode written by Grainne Godfree & David Kob

 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Trini

[Trini]

Clip:

[mtlchick]

Maybe I zoned out for a few episodes, but before the break Barry and Iris were trying to come to terms with having their first (or third kiss.)  Now the first scene back and it's sexy time in bed. I guess I'll just use the "Because it's the CW so duh" fanwalk and carry on. 

Not sure if Julian joining the team is going to be the greatest move...I think he's going to be the one to undermine them in the end.  But I've been wrong about plot lines before.

"On my Earth we give reptiles." Heh.

[bettername2come]

Okay, in the first five minutes, this episode won me over: Westallen kisses in bed, Greg Grunberg's back, Cisco called Caitlin "Frozone."

It's interesting to see Barry worried about a future problem. He's so much more reasonable trying to prevent a future disaster than a past one. I love that he was honest with Iris and the team, about the future, but, Barry, you can't swear on the lives of dead people. Is it wrong that I like seeing Joe on the other end of the family lies?

I liked Caitlin's part of the storyline. She didn't seem so desperate and is working with her friends, and I liked that even while Iris is trying to save herself, she's also thinking of Caitlin. Actually, the teamwork really won me over throughout the episode. Wally is starting to gel as one of the team members, and I find myself liking him more with each episode. Crying at the prospect of Iris's death probably helped; it's so much easier for me to like characters who like my favorite characters.

I have a feeling Julian's going to turn on them, whether he means to or not.

[Lantern7]

*hitting pause on the DVR*

This week: Manpain. Manpain. And more manpain. And a happy ending for now. Also, Julian joins the team, which will make him the third love interest Caitlin will lose in less than two seasons. Yes, things are that predictable, and the guy did give her jewelry. He's doomed.

At least Barry can acknowledge that he can be a dick. Oliver isn't as flexible. To make up for that, Wally is picking up the doofus slack. I can see how he can grate, but I like him. Also, Cisco doesn't punch Huckster in the face. That's restraint right there.

Yay, gorillas! Less hyped about Music Meister, though. Grant and Melissa have insane chemistry, but. Neil Patrick Harris did a great job in 22 minutes. That's going to be hard to reach.

[blugirlami21]

I really liked the episode. Great Westallen moments all the way through. I'm fine with the relationship upgrade fast forward. The flash has never exactly been more than pg when it comes to sex between couples.

So glad that Iris didn't let up on getting to the bottom of Barry acting different. Really show's that she's plugged into and invested in her and Barry's relationship.

I'm happy to see Cisco relent a little on his meanness toward HR, it started to be a bit like kicking a puppy after a while.  

Love teacher Barry. It allows him to really show his experience and it also allows him to avoid being the one making mistakes week after week.

Thought original hologram Cisco was hilarious, Barry still being mad about how Joe taught him how to swim, and Barry's reaction to HR giving him a turtle.

The housewarming party at the end was perfect. Great way to bring everyone together and advance Westallen at the same time.

I look forward to Gypsy and Cisco tangling next week.

Edited January 25, 2017 by blugirlami21

[ruby24]

This was a really good episode! Lighthearted, fun, great little character moments for everyone. The plan to try to change the future step by step is cool and interesting.

And Barry and Iris were really cute too. Loved it.

[Primetimer]

Team Flash compiles a to-not-do list in hopes of preventing Iris's death.

View the full article

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So, I wonder If Iris has figured out that she will always play second fiddle to the timeline, when it comes to Barry's choice of sexual partners...  Ever since the end of S1, he has continuously and energetically taken that plot device to pound town.  Yes, his reasons this time are for actual causes that benefit more than himself, but still.

I have nothing against the character of Wally and Kid Flash - at least from a comics sense, nor the writing or portrayal on the show - but I want to watch a show called The Flash, not The Flash and All His SpeedForce Buddies (& Enemies Who All Are Usually Faster Than Barry).

Am I the only who noticed that while Cisco and Barry noticed HR with the gun while re-watching the future of Iris' death, he never bothered to actually take a shot, at any point?  And the fact that they have a guy who's pretty much proven he's useless with anything, is the sniper why!?

I don't like poo-poo'ing this point, because what we've gotten is so nice...  but they will inevitably find a way to mess up the WA so bad, before regaining form [drama, drama, drama].  Its been perfect, so far - for TheCW - so it feels that the only way is down, from here.  So not looking forward to that.

Multi-verse assassin after HR.  Hmm.  *stifles yawn*

The predictable Caitlin/Julian romance that will happen.  Because the both of them are in good personal places for such a thing, and both have such loving personalities to do so with someone else;  oh wait, how dare I confuse past characterization with present/future story-telling needs?  *doesn't even bother to hide the wide yawn*

[benteen]

Very much enjoyed this episode and like that Julian has enjoyed the team.  I completely agree that Barry is much better as trying to prevent a future disaster than trying to change the past.  He was a dick in this and so was Cisco but at least he wasn't being a dick to Barry, which got real old real fast.

[TDT]

Is it too early to call Julian being the inevitable mole in the season finale..? then again H.R may well be the one..

[JohnSmithSensei]

Is the rifle they got from Plunder the same one HR uses in the future?

[thuganomics85]

Well, I guess it wouldn't be an episode of The Flash without Barry being a dick at some point or another.  I can at least understand why seeing Iris dying (not to mention, reliving it in his dreams over and over again), would do a number on him though.  I'm glad she shaped up though and let Wally help.  Also glad he already told Iris and they've told everyone else.  Except Joe.  That is so going to blow up in their faces, like every other time characters keep secrets from other characters on any show.

Glad they found a way to have Julian join Team Flash, since he's awesome and I'm looking forward to seeing Tom Felton interact with the rest of the cast more.  Wasn't sure if they were trying something with him and Caitlin though, which concerns me, since Caitlin's love interests tend not to fare well in this show.

So, the plan now is for them to try changing all the news reels Barry saw in the future, and hope it will change things around enough so that Iris will live.  It seems like the first change is that now H.R. will be at the scene with a rifle, but will still fail to save her.

Cisco is slowly starting to warm up to H.R. now, so that probably means the other shoe will be dropping very soon.

Man, Candice Patton was gorgeous throughout this entire episode!

Hey, Sophie from Sleepy Hollow is here and apparently wants to get her hands on H.R!  Considering he was wearing that hipster hat in the photo, I can't really blame her for wanting to kick his ass.

Edited January 25, 2017 by thuganomics85

[Lantern7]

Three more things:

1. I'm hoping Barry names the turtle "Whatzit." "Fastback" also works for me.

2. Huckster on a Segway . . . oy. Honest Trailers was right while covering Iron Man . . . only Obadiah Stane could pull that off and look like a boss.

3. Who gets credit for designing Wally's outfit? I know that yellow is Silver Age canon, but would Barry really want his kinda/sorta half-brother to wear the same colors as Reverse Flash?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I forgot to say in my earlier comment...

The [seemingly] near full return of the Cisco we remembered pre-first half of S3!  Slight bit more abrasive because of the dead!Dante emotional baggage, but hey, we missed you pal.

[Trini]

More comments later, -- I'm glad 'Saving Iris' is going to be the mission for the rest of the season, but I'm already dreading seeing her get stabbed every episode until the finale.

Joe's probably not going to be in the dark for long, but it's still silly to keep him out of the loop. Especially when every other Team Flash member will be working on the mission. On the other hand... payback for season 1 and keeping Iris n the dark.

I don't know if Julian joining the team is the best idea. Besides the potential for betrayal, this probably means less scenes at CCPD, and we already rarely see Barry doing his actual paying job.

[futurechemist]

How many times does the team need to learn the lesson that they are more powerful together so they shouldn't keep secrets?

The museum idea was cringeworthy.  "Hey remember that massive explosion that killed people and released metas on the city?  Well now you can pay money to learn about the people that brought you that explosion."

HR kind of annoys me.  And yet I really appreciate "normal" characters.  As in characters that don't have superpowers and aren't experts at 10 totally unrelated branches of science.  (see also nuclear physicist Martin Stein literally performing brain surgery on tonight's Legends of Tomorrow).

[mrspidey]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

Joe's probably not going to be in the dark for long, but it's still silly to keep him out of the loop. 

I wonder how long it will take him to notice the board with the future events.

 

So...who was that girl at the end? HR's wife/ex-wife?

[MrSmith]

5 hours ago, futurechemist said:

How many times does the team need to learn the lesson that they are more powerful together so they shouldn't keep secrets?

The museum idea was cringeworthy.  "Hey remember that massive explosion that killed people and released metas on the city?  Well now you can pay money to learn about the people that brought you that explosion."

HR kind of annoys me.  And yet I really appreciate "normal" characters.  As in characters that don't have superpowers and aren't experts at 10 totally unrelated branches of science.  

I dislike HR, but I like the fact they've managed to keep that actor on the show and I hope they do something better, more interesting, and more useful with him in the future.

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(see also nuclear physicist Martin Stein literally performing brain surgery on tonight's Legends of Tomorrow).

Thank you for another example of why I'm not wasting my time with Legends of Tomorrow anymore. (I quit watching at the end of the first season.)

[Jediknight]

12 hours ago, mtlchick said:

."On my Earth we give reptiles." Heh.

I like that Earth, I'm a fan of reptiles.

Finally got to watch the episode, thank you very much Kansas CW for showing an ACC basketball game and moving Flash and Legends back.

So the constant mentions of science, getting kids interested in science, and Caitlin's pendant being solar powered, was mighty timely.

Barry stop playing with the timeline.  Yeah, it's the future he wants to mess with, but he's got to know with everything we've seen on this show, that fate will find a way to balance things out.

[Lady Calypso]

I'm also in the same boat of knowing that keeping Joe out of the loop will cause problems, but also thinking that karma's a bitch after he convinced Barry and then Eddie not to say anything and had no guilt in lying to his own daughter. Also, in a way, I get why Iris asked Barry not to tell Joe. I think she believes that Joe will do something stupid by going after Savitar and getting killed instead. I can't blame her for wanting him kept out of it for now. And remembering that this timeline had them estranged for a while, it's progress for them. Joe's still not going to be happy. 

I didn't dislike HR in this episode as I have in others, but I still don't like him much. 

I'm glad Julian's part of the team and Caitlin's speech to the team was actually well done. I do worry about them being a couple because I don't see Julian as a long term cast member. I don't think he'll die, but I don't know if I see him sticking around next season, even if I want him to. 

If Iris doesn't die, someone's just going to die in her place. That's all I know. Also, in the changed future, why is HR just standing on the roof, not shooting? Was it just used to establish that something changed, or will it be revealed to be an important plot point? 

I did love the Westallen moments this episode. It's the first time this season where I really bought their relationship. I did really ship them in the first season, and now I'm feeling that way again. I love their loft as well. It feels very warm and inviting. 

This is the first episode this season where I liked Wally. Good job, show, for reminding me on why I liked the guy. I guess over the break, I accepted that we're just going to have another speedster. Although I do wonder if he will die in Iris' place. I don't know whether they want two speedsters on the team. 

[Writing Wrongs]

I really don't care for Wally. He thinks everything is a joke and only cares about being a superhero. I really want him to get his ass kicked in a huge way.

[Briscoe County III]

Here's my thing -- for Kid Flash, was it entirely necessary to be 100% faithful to the comic book mask? To me, the half-mask only works if you've got at least some hair wafting up top. With a close crop, it just looks like a head in mid-lobotomy.

[Whodunnit]

I liked  Caitlin's new snowflake jewelry...  I hope none of the Rogues steal it. (Oh, who am I kidding, this show has long since forgotten about them.)

Wally's outfit is only half in yellow, but I am surprised no one outside of the team  has commented on it's resemblance to the outfit of the Reverse Flash. (I don't think anyone on the team would be tactless enough to do so.)

[KirkB]

2 hours ago, Briscoe County III said:

Here's my thing -- for Kid Flash, was it entirely necessary to be 100% faithful to the comic book mask? To me, the half-mask only works if you've got at least some hair wafting up top. With a close crop, it just looks like a head in mid-lobotomy.

First of all, great name. I miss that show.

Secondly, to me it's worse than that. Barry's mask covers the majority of his head, so in the rare instance people get a good look at his face they can only really focus on his eyes and mouth. Wally's mask leaves half his head exposed. Anyone on the police force who has seen Wally with Joe ought to be able to recognize him pretty easily.

[tankgirl73]

I mostly liked the episode, but I kept being pulled out of it by Barry's "is it possible to change the future" constant ponderings.

Well duh, dude... you KNOW it is. Ever since your first experience with time travel, you've known, been told, and seen for yourself, how actions in previous times change events in future times. It's not theoretical, it's not a philosophical quandary, in your universe it's cold and hard fact, a resolved question, a known quantity. 

The notion of changing the future a bit at a time by changing these events that aren't directly related to the death in question? Cool. Awesome. Fine. But using them as a test to see IF it's possible to change the future? Aghhh... hasn't he been paying attention at ALL?

[TobinAlbers]

I love them both but good grief Cisco and Barry were at some serious Oliver Queen levels of mopey dickery this episode.  Yes, HR was being an overcaffeinated annoying jackass but Cisco seemed overly harsh to him trying to earn his keep and in a pretty smart way by utilizing Star Labs. 

Barry's dickery made a bit more sense (although not much) with his still chewing on the whole future Iris death issue. When JOE is telling you that you are being unreasonable, you are being unreasonable.

Iris made me love her forever by telling Barry that he couldn't stop protecting the city just to save her. That is a BIG thing for her to accept that if/when the chips are down, she knows she may have to come second to his living up to the responsibility of being The Flash. And yet she pissed me off keeping the secret from Joe about her death by Savitar. Something tells me that Joe NOT knowing is playing into how the dominoes fall for her to be killed that night.

And about that. We now have another way that Iris' death could be a fakeout. First with HR's face distorting tool that allows him to go outside without looking like Welles to other people and now with the hologram technology. Somehow those things are coming into play in that scene of her death. Either the entire scene was staged (i.e. Barry, Iris, and Savitar were all holograms) for someone to witness and believe Iris was dead (the HR on the rooftop) or for another witness to the whole thing that Barry and Cisco didn't see.

Caitlin and Julian. I was the main one ranting about Julian having legit reason to tell Caitlin and Barry to kick rocks and yet, yup, I kinda ship these two. Honestly, I think it's because Felton is giving Julian layers and I just enjoy his push and pull in being a jerk but a good jerk with the team. Even still, Caitlin needs to shut it about Julian being a jerk to her. Girl, you tried to kill him. He's been a mind controlled tool for an ancient evil. And you have been a world class jerk to your friends over your burgeoning powers too so cut the man some slack.

I was so over Wally last season and I've done a complete 180 to loving him this season as he's enjoys the hell out of being a speedster and wanting to use his powers for good. He'd be great in a 'Titans' spinoff with Jesse Quick, Roy and Thea Queen.

WestAllen opening the episode with Barry shirtless and Iris being physical with him with the stroking his chest and later Barry zipping up her dress and the two of them being all domestic in their apartment? Loved.it.

And Iris wore the HELL out of that red one-piece pantsuit. That's not an easy look to pull off without cameltoe complications and yet she looked flawless.

[Spaceman Spiff]

14 hours ago, futurechemist said:

HR kind of annoys me.  And yet I really appreciate "normal" characters.  As in characters that don't have superpowers and aren't experts at 10 totally unrelated branches of science.  (see also nuclear physicist Martin Stein literally performing brain surgery on tonight's Legends of Tomorrow).

I understand you were trying to make a point by example, but perhaps in the future we can refrain from divulging plot points to other CW DC hero shows...I haven't watched LoT yet.

Wally is still an ass. The way he started mugging for the kid with the cell phone and then bathing in the adulation of the crowd chanting his name...not a hero. I agree with Greg Grunberg's character, Central City has a Flash, Kid Flash needs to go somewhere else.

The CCPD and that little news paper must pay really well for Barry and Iris to afford that place with all that nice furniture.

Over all a decent episode. I like that Cisco has dropped the attitude. Caitlin's arc is ongoing nicely, although I hope they aren't planning anything relationship-wise with Julian, otherwise she will be the Black Widow of Star Labs, girl has no luck with men.

I do like HR and can't see him being the betrayer, it reeks too much of S1 Harrison Wells. Same with Julian, reeks of S2 and Jay/Hunter/Zoom, as someone they bring in and trust turning on them.  If they (the writers) are smart the betrayer is someone else.

[Ottis]

Sigh, more butt hurt. Caitlin and Julian whining because they did things they couldn't control. Wally because no one believes he is ready. Barry because Wally doesn't listen. I haven't even finished the episode yet and I bet Iris will whine any minute. 

I said this before the break and I'll repeat it: Can these characters please move on?

[RedVitC]

Just dropping in to say this was a really enjoyable episode. Great stuff for most of the characters and I'm glad they managed to keep some lighthearted moments, despite the other heartbreaking ones. Stand out scene was the one with Barry and Iris in the vault. I'll probably be back with more detailed thoughts later (this week?).

[Chyromaniac]

Quote

 

I mostly liked the episode, but I kept being pulled out of it by Barry's "is it possible to change the future" constant ponderings.

Well duh, dude... you KNOW it is. Ever since your first experience with time travel, you've known, been told, and seen for yourself, how actions in previous times change events in future times. It's not theoretical, it's not a philosophical quandary, in your universe it's cold and hard fact, a resolved question, a known quantity. 

 

Seriously Barry.  You have access to a newspaper from the future that used to say one thing, and now says another.  THE.  FUTURE.  CAN.  CHANGE.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Can someone give me a good concise answer as to how Cisco's vibe powers actually work? 

Why I ask;  when he & Barry vibed to the future point of Iris' death, they made it a point to mention that it had already changed because of HR, playing the role of sniper, in the background.  I get that Cisco can 'see' the past, present, and future - in separate universes, even - but he can also see changing timelines?  Or is that the future was already changing so that's what was vibed??

And I also want to know how they know exactly that the future was indeed changed (and/or changing) with seeing HR in the background.  I find it hard to believe that Barry had either the time or focus - the first time he witnessed those events - to see that part of the building in the distance to notice HR's presence (or lack of) while watching Iris, the only true love of his whole life, in the process of being killed.  That's asking a lot.

[zannej]

I do wonder when Joe will notice the notes on the board and ask them WTF it is about-- if he hasn't already noticed at some point. Am I the only one who noticed that the news story said something about city hall (or some government entity) "Honoring Joe West". Now, either he did something really heroic or he died and they are honoring his memory. And was it just me, or did something seem a little off with Joe? I don't know if Jesse L. Martin was sick when they filmed or if it was just written that way, but he seemed a bit down. He was lacking energy and just seemed tired or like he wasn't feeling well.

Interesting that HR kept talking about the expenses of setting up the museum yet nobody on team star labs asked how he got authorization to purchase things, who was footing the bill, etc. Does Barry even look at the finances? He owns the place.

I wonder if Barry will go in to the time vault and check on the news article after each change to see if Iris' name appears back on the article again.

I was facepalming about Wally posing for a picture and not even trying to disguise his voice while announcing himself as Kid Flash. That costume just doesn't disguise him very well.

The original Cisco hologram reminded me of some commercial for science that the actors from The Flash did to encourage children to enter STEM fields. I did like the finalized hologram though.

I wonder what Barry is going to do with his little pet turtle. I hope he gets it a larger enclosure. (I've been known to stop on the side of the road to move turtles out of the road so they don't get run over).

I wonder how well Caitlin's necklace will work to suppress her powers.

[tankgirl73]

2 hours ago, zannej said:

 Am I the only one who noticed that the news story said something about city hall (or some government entity) "Honoring Joe West". Now, either he did something really heroic or he died and they are honoring his memory.

You're not the only one who noticed, because as they were reading off the vibed headlines to be written down, someone (I think I recall that it was HR) said "way to go, Joe!"

[Mellowyellow]

I really liked this episode but please stop it with the horrible scene of Iris getting stabbed!!! I hope they don't keep replaying it!

Iris was smoking in that last dress with the flowers!!!!

Awww WestAllen are happy! Let them stay happy CW!

[cambridgeguy]

About some of the remaining to-do list: 

Joe's honored at City Hall.  Time to sabotage his career for the next 4 months!

Killer Frost still at large.  Technically that's true right now since Caitlin got away with her previous attack.  It doesn't necessarily mean she's going to go on another rampage.

Gorilla attack.  Well, that sounds like fun so no reason to change that.

[MadyGirl1987]

11 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

And I also want to know how they know exactly that the future was indeed changed (and/or changing) with seeing HR in the background.  I find it hard to believe that Barry had either the time or focus - the first time he witnessed those events - to see that part of the building in the distance to notice HR's presence (or lack of) while watching Iris, the only true love of his whole life, in the process of being killed.  That's asking a lot.

This. I was wondering how that necessarily meant the future was changed versus being missed the first time through.

I actually really enjoyed this episode. I really liked all the group interactions(minus Cisco being a jerk to HR) and all of them(except Joe) coming together at the end to try to figure out what they could do to prevent the future.

I would actually really like to see Tom Felton stay on as a regular cast member, since I feel he meshes well with the group. I have a feeling that won't happen though.

Edited January 26, 2017 by MadyGirl1987

[Lady Calypso]

11 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Why I ask;  when he & Barry vibed to the future point of Iris' death, they made it a point to mention that it had already changed because of HR, playing the role of sniper, in the background.  I get that Cisco can 'see' the past, present, and future - in separate universes, even - but he can also see changing timelines?  Or is that the future was already changing so that's what was vibed??

I mean, the first time Cisco uses his vibe powers, it's to see the timeline where he was killed by Eobard Wells, so I do think he can see changed/changing timelines. But this is the first time Cisco vibes to the future, right? So we don't really know the full extent of his powers. 

[tennisgurl]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 11:54 PM, futurechemist said:

HR kind of annoys me.  And yet I really appreciate "normal" characters.  As in characters that don't have superpowers and aren't experts at 10 totally unrelated branches of science.  (see also nuclear physicist Martin Stein literally performing brain surgery on tonight's Legends of Tomorrow).

To be fair, they do spend a lot of time having the characters bring up that Stein isn't that kind of doctor, and it was more their future ship with future medical stuff that did most of the work.

I liked a whole lot of this episode, even if it required Barry and Cisco to act like assholes for half the episode. At least they both acknowledged their dick behavior, but now can we move on? Because there was a lot here to like. First of all, Westallen were totally on point all episode. They are just adorable, and it makes me wish they had gotten them together sooner. They are so cute when they're happy, even if they do now have this whole "Iris dies in four months" thing over their heads. And Iris looked amazing in the house warming party! And I loved that even after finding out she was going to get run through with a sword, she was still concerned about Caitlyn possibly becoming Killer Frost. That's why Iris is the best.

"On my Earth, we give reptiles at house warming parties". So great. And I loved how Barry went from "What the heck..." to "Hey guys I have a new pet!!!" in about three seconds. Give us more turtle time!

I really like Julian and I think Tom Felton is really great, but I am now very concerned. Don't become Caitlyn's love interest Julian! That NEVER ends well! You'll die, turn evil, or be revealed to actually have been evil the whole time!

I actually found HR to be pretty likable this episode, even though I still miss Harry. Running the museum does give him something to do that the others Wells wouldn't have done.

I like Wally, but he really needs to cut down on his need for attention from the public. That's going to get him into trouble, especially considering he doesn't bother changing his voice as Kid Flash, and his mask hardly hides his face!

[Proteus]

I may the only one but I'm loving HR. I was worried when Harry left that I wouldn't like the new Wells but so far I do.

I really hope Felton stays past this season. So far I like his vibe with being part of the team.

Also liked all of his scenes with Caitlin. I'm liking the bond their developing so far.

Something has to be done about Wally. The show shouldn't have two Flashs as someone said above.

[futurechemist]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

"On my Earth, we give reptiles at house warming parties". So great. And I loved how Barry went from "What the heck..." to "Hey guys I have a new pet!!!" in about three seconds. Give us more turtle time!

Part of me would like HR to eventually admit he's making up most of this, just to see what the craziest thing is that he can come up with and everyone believes without question.

[immortalfrieza]

On 1/24/2017 at 8:40 PM, blugirlami21 said:

Love teacher Barry. It allows him to really show his experience and it also allows him to avoid being the one making mistakes week after week.

Now it just means the writers are going to have to have Barry AND Wally making mistakes week after week to avoid either of them solving the plot in the space of 5 seconds. I laughed at Wally and Barry's "It's not about speed it's about training and experience" lines because 9 times out of 10 the speed would be all they needed to wrap up the villain of the week while fancy tricks like vibrating through objects wouldn't even be necessary. For instance, either Barry or Wally should have been able to tie Plunder up and bring him in before he could've even pointed his super sci-fi everything gun at either of them not to mention fired it.

On 1/25/2017 at 0:54 AM, futurechemist said:

How many times does the team need to learn the lesson that they are more powerful together so they shouldn't keep secrets?

The same number of times the crew on Arrow need to learn that lesson: always, constantly, forever. Anytime any character keeps a secret from another character it will either backfire and/or ruin the relationships between the characters or the one keeping the secret will turn out to be a villain, and nobody will ever truly learn the lesson that secrets won't "protect" anybody. Far too many writers think that the only way to create tension and drama is to have characters do stupid things like keep secrets for no reason that just ends up making everything worse. Even secret identities get this, they can keep that a secret without problems except with their close friends and family, in which case it tends to distance them for not trusting them with the secret.

Quote

HR kind of annoys me.  And yet I really appreciate "normal" characters.  As in characters that don't have superpowers and aren't experts at 10 totally unrelated branches of science.  (see also nuclear physicist Martin Stein literally performing brain surgery on tonight's Legends of Tomorrow).

Me, it's the other way around. I typically hate or at least am bored by the "normal" characters and only really appreciate the special ones. If I wanted to see "normal" characters I'd watch shows that are based mostly around reality like NCIS. On a show with fantastical elements like this one I want to see as much of that and as little of the "normal" characters as possible, which is why I'm glad Team Flash is gradually being turned into metahumans. That being said, the writing on this show is good enough in general that I don't really mind the "normal" characters as it is.

On 1/25/2017 at 4:06 PM, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Wally is still an ass. The way he started mugging for the kid with the cell phone and then bathing in the adulation of the crowd chanting his name...not a hero. I agree with Greg Grunberg's character, Central City has a Flash, Kid Flash needs to go somewhere else.

Agreed, no hero actually thinks of themselves as a hero, wants to be a hero, nor seeks admiration for being a hero, anyone who does is simply doing what they do to feed their arrogance, ego, and any number of other base things. Actual heroes just do the right thing because they can and it comes naturally to them, don't care if anyone thinks they are a hero or not, and if they are admired or condemned for what they do they barely notice at best. Wally hits all the marks of a kid who wanted to be a hero solely for the rush (no pun intended) it gives him, just like how he would go street racing for the rush.

On 1/26/2017 at 10:18 AM, Proteus said:

I may the only one but I'm loving HR. I was worried when Harry left that I wouldn't like the new Wells but so far I do.

HR is fine, but I still would have preferred Harry have stuck around. HR is funny sometimes but he has to have a role for genuinely contributing to the team directly to really be a good character.

 

On 1/24/2017 at 8:03 PM, mtlchick said:

Maybe I zoned out for a few episodes, but before the break Barry and Iris were trying to come to terms with having their first (or third kiss.)  Now the first scene back and it's sexy time in bed. I guess I'll just use the "Because it's the CW so duh" fanwalk and carry on.

The writers did it because fans whined that Barry and Iris had no chemistry so they decided to overdose this episode with blatant displays of affection left and right in order to give them what they wanted. I was actually appreciative of the writers that WestAllen was being more subtle and thus more realistic about things up to this point, but the crowd expects couples to be in the Honeymoon phase 24/7 or they cry "no chemistry!" so that's what the writers give them.

On 1/26/2017 at 3:34 AM, zannej said:

I was facepalming about Wally posing for a picture and not even trying to disguise his voice while announcing himself as Kid Flash. That costume just doesn't disguise him very well.

I wouldn't be surprised if that becomes a future plot point, but really it's not unrealistic. Only people who know Wally well (in other words, everybody in on the secret) or by amazing coincidence just so happened to be looking at a pic of Kid Flash when Wally walked in would recognize Wally in that getup. Everybody else would just see him as "some black kid with a buzz cut" just as they would see "some brown haired white guy" if Barry were to wear the same outfit, it's not as though either of those are rare. It probably helps that the costume is a bright yellow thus making it hard to focus on the face.

Edited January 28, 2017 by immortalfrieza

[MaggieG]

On a shallow note, Iris looked amazing this episode. The red pantsuit looked great. I also like Caitlyn's purple skirt and blouse with the flowers,

[tricknasty]

Just now, MaggieG said:

On a shallow note, Iris looked amazing this episode. The red pantsuit looked great. I also like Caitlyn's purple skirt and blouse with the flowers,

Agree. Although Cisco's blouse was doing him no favors. Previews show him wearing an even uglier flowery blouse :(

[Trini]

Caitlin and Iris' housewarming party dresses have been ID'd BTW.

[Argenta]

On 25/01/2017 at 4:41 PM, Briscoe County III said:

Here's my thing -- for Kid Flash, was it entirely necessary to be 100% faithful to the comic book mask? To me, the half-mask only works if you've got at least some hair wafting up top. With a close crop, it just looks like a head in mid-lobotomy.

*snicker* You're right. Not only that, but his speed-suit in general makes Wally look like he has no neck. It's really not very flattering.

In young Wallace's defense, I would actually count him as a hero, or at least a hero-in-the-making; he may enjoy the attention but that's not inherently wrong, and my impression is that he genuinely wants to help people with his powers. 

Man, Cisco was a bitch this week. I love HR. I'm not blind to the fact that he's often OTT and grates on the other characters, but Cisco's cruel jabs were like watching someone backhand an eager frolicking Labrador across the face when it just wants to play fetch. Mean!

[Trini]

The theme for this one was 'teamwork'! It was nice to see Barry and Wally working together, Cisco and Julian solving Caitlin's cuff power problem, Cisco improving on HR's museum ideas, and Iris sticking up for Caitlin. And of course, the Save Iris Mission will be a team effort.

Is it canon now that Barry is richer than Oliver Queen? That loft is really nice! So Barry and Iris haven't unpacked for a month because they were too busy working, superhero-ing, and ... sexing each other?  ;-D

I was surprised to see Det. Patterson again. I thought Grunberg only had a cameo because of Kevin Smith, but I guess he's recurring? Speaking of CCPD - I hope we can get a few more appearances of Capt. Singh the rest of the season.

Now with Iris, Barry has seen all the people closest to him die (even Joe, if you include the Earth-2 version). :(  No wonder he has nightmares. At least this time, he can stop it before it happens. Hopefully.

Lots of cute WestAllen moments in this one! I liked that Iris saw through Barry's behavior and knew he was hiding something. Even on Flash duty, Barry's bragging about being with Iris. Boy is sprung. But more than any of that, it was great to see him be a support to Iris throughout the episode instead of the other way around.

May 23, 2017 -- here's hoping CW doesn't screw over the finale with scheduling.

So Cisco was being mean to HR, but I'm still Cisco, though. HR is barely helpful comic relief. Nice housewarming speech, though!

The show has really slacked off when it comes to the villains-of-the-week this season. They could have done more with Plunder's multifunctional gun (I guess they will later), and it was dumb that two speedsters couldn't catach one motorcycle. They also crossed the line into corny with the 'crowd' chanting "Kid Flash".

Changing the future is a given --Barry's already done it-- I just wonder how relevant the headlines are to actually stopping Iris' death. More important should be how Barry, Iris, and Savitar ended up there in that park.

[ottoDbusdriver]

4 minutes ago, Trini said:

Changing the future is a given --Barry's already done it-- I just wonder how relevant the headlines are to actually stopping Iris' death. More important should be how Barry, Iris, and Savitar ended up there in that park.

That's the thing -- Iris may just have gotten another job, and no longer works for CCPN.  The headline in the time vault is 7 years in the future -- and just because her name isn't on the byline doesn't mean she's dead.  Iris already switched jobs once in this show -- going from barista to reporter.  Doesn't mean it won't happen again.

And why isn't Barry contacting Jay Garrick on Earth-3 to find WTF happened to hiding the Philosopher's Stone in the speedforce ?  And then trying to figure out how it got out of the speedforce and who took it out of the chest (thus freeing Savitar).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I had to laugh at Joe scolding Barry for not letting Wally tag along. Wasn't it, like, two weeks ago in Flash time that Joe was telling the entire team to keep Wally's amazing speed a secret from him so that he wouldn't leave the lab on ANY missions? I guess once Joe changes his mind, he really gives it all he's got.

[ruby24]

42 minutes ago, doram said:

CW has a problem with depicting interracial couples the same way it depicts its more homogenous couples so a lot of the usual romantic/sexual "milestones" were skipped for B & I. I think there was one couch makeout session - that was more for comic relief than anything else. Everything else were quick lip and cheek perks. (Seriously, Barry & Iris act around each other like an old grand-parents-type couple, not two young people who are in the "honeymoon" stage of their relationship). Exactly when they slept together for the first time is left to the audience's imagination. (Compare that to just about every other couple on the CWTV 8pm time-slot).

 

Well, they are in their honeymoon phase so the audience is right to expect it. If Barry & Iris had been a couple since season 1, I'd side-eye the need to show a heavy-necking scene in every episode 2 seasons later. But this is the show's main OTP that just got together. There's something skewed about the fact that we saw Barry make out more with Linda Park in a relationship that lasted all of 4 episodes, than what Westallen is selling.

Fans have all sorts of reasons, some fair, some not-so-much, for not embracing Westallen but the writing/directing isn't doing the couple any favours either. 

You're right and I'm still annoyed by this too. There should be more passionate kissing from them occasionally. It's unfair that they've been watered down so much compared to other couples.