S01.E11: The Right Thing to Do

[DebbieM4]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Jack's behavior towards his father essentially said "I hate you and don't want you in my life in any way, but I'm happy to take a large sum of money from you because I failed to prepare financially for starting a family". YMMV, but that's not right.

It seemed to me that he thought it was his only option.  A last resort he would rather have not resorted to, but the only solution that he had.  I got the impression that he would have been very happy to never see his father again, but he did what he felt he had to do.   I'm sure he would far prefer to not have done that.

And I can't fault him for "failing to prepare financially for starting a family".  He & Rebecca certainly are not the first couple to have been blindsided by triplets.  One baby is expensive, but often manageable for young couples.  Three babies is an entirely different story.

[chocolatine]

17 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I could agree with you about everything but "because I failed to prepare financially for starting a family".  How many people are financially prepared for the possibility of natural triplets?  It's not the same as having that third child you can ill afford.

It sounded like the security deposit on the ill-considered walkup wiped them out. They certainly needed to have much more than that saved up before they decided to get pregnant, whether they thought they were having one baby or three. Jack was 35 and Rebecca was 29, they weren't fresh out of high school/college. Even with Jack being the only one with a steady job, construction foremen make decent money, and Jack must have been in the workforce for over a decade (his boss said Jack was his highest-paid foreman).

Edited January 11, 2017 by chocolatine

[Spencer Hastings]

I so wish 2016 had taken Toby.  It's like the writers saw that we hated him and pretended to kill him so that we'd come around...but I still can't stand him. 

Since I'm trying to back off the Jack is perfect train, I will credit Rebecca with not murdering him this week.  If I were pregnant with triplets and he showed me that nightmare of a renovation, I probably would have pushed him down those death trap stairs.

[biakbiak]

19 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

It sounded like the security deposit on the ill-considered walkup wiped them out. They certainly needed to have much more than that saved up before they decided to get pregnant, whether they thought they were having one baby or three. Jack was 35 and Rebecca was 29, they weren't fresh out of high school/college. Even with Jack being the only one with a steady job, construction foremen make decent money, and Jack must have been in the workforce for over a decade (his boss said Jack was his highest-paid foreman).

The walk up wasn't ill-considered ntil they realized that they needed to cart three babies up those stairs. It was the most space that they could afford and were willing to make it work. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by biakbiak

[chocolatine]

Just now, biakbiak said:

The walk up wasn't ill-considered ntil they realized that they needed to cart three babies up those stairs. It was the most space that they could afford and were willing to make it work. 

Have you ever tried to carry one stroller and baby up and down six flights of stairs? Not a good idea either.

[NutMeg]

15 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

And I can't fault him for "failing to prepare financially for starting a family".  He & Rebecca certainly are not the first couple to have been blindsided by triplets.  One baby is expensive, but often manageable for young couples.  Three babies is an entirely different story.

yeah, one of my mother's cousins unexpectedly learned she was carrying twins, and that seemed to have been a tragedy back then because the parents were young, had only started on their professional life (that was back in the 60s, I wasn't even a dot on the map back then - happy ending, the parents are still together and the twins turned out fine!)

Otherwise, this episode (which was a looooooooooong time coming) reinforced to me how much I dislike Toby and how he's nowhere near deserving someone like Kate. I was so hoping he wouldn't survive surgery - and I don't feel bad because he's a fictional character that I really dislike (charmless, humorless, etc.). 

Edited January 11, 2017 by NutMeg
to delete text repeated in quote box

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

Have you ever tried to carry one stroller and baby up and down six flights of stairs? Not a good idea either.

I havent, but my parents lived in a four floor walk up when they had my older sister and they managed. Pretty certain the two floors wouldnt have broken them. Also, like many apartment dwellers of the time they left the stroller, the bike, the grocery cart etc. In the basement of the building locked to a wall near the trash cans.

Edited January 11, 2017 by biakbiak

[Judois]

I think I fell out of love with this show over the long break. The writers wimping out on killing off Toby,who I don't like,did not help me like this episode more. 

[Spartan Girl]

Poor Jack. Watching him beg his jerk dad for money was so painful. 

While I still don't know if I like Toby, it was nice that they didn't kill him off. William probably won't be so lucky; sucks that he's stopping chemo, but if it's not helping, then it's his right to choose.

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, Olivia!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Beth continues to be the best. From her dry responses to Kevin at breakfast to her telling Randall to get undressed, she was awesome in the little that we saw of her this week.

I appreciated Randall trying to figure out why he was so bothered by William's sexuality and talking it out with Beth. I liked that he recognized he was being weird about it, made an effort to understand why, and then tried to fix it. His awkward scene with Jesse was hilarious. For me, the most important thing is that he's aware of it and he's trying.

I also loved that instead of pouting silently, he straight out told William he felt bad that he was spending so much time with Jesse and not with the rest of their family. There are a lot of adults out there who wouldn't have been direct as Randall was about that. I loved that when William revealed why, Randall insisted that they are his family and he is welcome there as long as he is alive. But the best part was when he immediately saw that William didn't want to continue chemo anymore and told him that it was okay to stop.

Hee, I also loved that Randall's attempt at distracting Kate was a lame story about a coworker who claims she's gluten-free. For some reason, it cracked me up that he thought that was interesting enough to share. Loved that Kate's reaction was to tell him he had failed and then demand Kevin tell some them something. Randall's "big three" toast was great too.

So disappointed that Toby is still alive. Once he decided to have the surgery, I was worried he would die on the table and then Kate would feel responsible/guilty because she encouraged him to have the procedure.

Good riddance to Olivia! Part of me wants to believe that Kevin gave her that line about doing the right thing even when it's not what you wan to do because he wanted to let her down a little more gently in the hopes of not angering her. Given how tempestuous she was in previous episodes, I thought he was just trying not to set her off again. Poor Sloane. No one wants to be second choice.

More confirmation that Rebecca's mother SUCKS. A salad without dressing or any of the other stuff is just a pile of lettuce.

As soon as I heard one of the guys working on the house complimented Jack's car, I knew he was going to end up selling it by the end of the episode. I was surprised that he went to his dad for money though.

[luna1122]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

Good riddance to Olivia! Part of me wants to believe that Kevin gave her that line about doing the right thing even when it's not what you wan to do because he wanted to let her down a little more gently in the hopes of not angering her. Given how tempestuous she was in previous episodes, I thought he was just trying not to set her off again. Poor Sloane. No one wants to be second choice.

 

 

That was the weirdest, most manufactured-for-drama seeming bit of dialogue, for me. So Kevin will continue to date Sloane, even tho it's not what he wants? Wtf kind of thing is that to do, or say? I know Kevin's tactless and impulsive, but that was beyond my comprehension. Also: a woman like Olivia--or hell, any woman who is still into a guy--would have seized upon that. He was brushing her off, yes, but he was also telling her she was the one he actually wanted. Olivia would have used that to get him back into bed in no time flat. The whole scene just rang untrue for me. If Sloane can still continue to see him after hearing that, she has no pride.

I didn't actually want Toby to die, but I wouldn't have much cared if he did, either. And for them to suddenly be talking marriage? Ugh. I do think the showrunners think we, like his doctor, find Toby adorable and charming. I don't. And Kate's immediate disgust that he didn't want the surgery was out of line. Surgery is a big thing; people need time to process that shit. And: she really seemed to be saying that she loves Toby because nobody else has ever loved her. I mean...I guess plenty of people marry for worse reasons, but it all seems sad.

wtf is a Caesar salad with no dressing or anchovies? Go away, Rebecca's mom.

I'm assuming Jack's mom and  his horrible dad were no longer together by the time Jack was asking to borrow money from him.

Randall and his 'am I homophobic' concerns were funny. I love Randall when he's all twirly and freaked out. I also love Kevin's casual humor over the whole situation, WITH William. They amuse me together. And I did love seeing the big three at the hospital together. Funny.

[JudyObscure]

I couldn't get into the housing crisis, because I can't help but think if you can raise one baby in a two bedroom apartment, you can raise three.  Even in the dream house Rebecca was picturing three bassinets lined up in one room.  For the first year the big three won't be doing much but eating, sleeping and messing their diapers and mom is going to be going from their room,  to the bathroom, to the kitchen in one continuous loop.  The apartment would actually have been easier, because in the house she'll have to go down those stairs to the kitchen.  Sure, they'll want a bigger house by school age, but they had plenty of time to save for that, they didn't need to panic.

The first part of the show made me think that I probably wouldn't stay with the series, even though I loved Randall and Beth, Toby and Kate, Kevin and Sloan.  So it dawned on me, I grind my teeth when Rebecca is on screen, but the rest is good.

[Lostinthehouse]

Dear Kate,  Try to be not so desperate for a man.  Please.  Toby is and has been inconsiderate of your feelings (showing up during a football game that you wanted to share only with your dad's ashes, going off his diet when you were desperately clinging to your own diet, showing up uninvited to your family's Christmas celebration, etc etc etc).  You deserve your own hopes and dreams, you own your feelings, and you know, deep in your heart, that Toby is not going to be considerate of any of this.  

Dear Toby,  Make like Olivia and just go.  Leave.  Die, or just exit the hospital without notifying anyone, or whatever your selfish heart desires.  Just go.

Sincerely, Me.  

[Haleth]

Sterling Brown is a treasure.  He gets the best comedic lines (I love his laugh) and the meatiest story.  Randall and Beth together continue to be the best part of the show.  I love the whole cast but would watch a spin off of just these Piersons.  I don't mind that William seems to be perfect.  He's an old man facing his death, he knows what's important, who is important.  I'm calling it now-- the final epi of the season will be both Jack and William dying, with Randall losing both his fathers.  (Well, years apart but you know what I mean.)

I'm glad Toby lived only because it would have been so cliche for him to die in surgery, leaving Kate with the guilt of encouraging him but never saying she loved him.  (However I did think that Toby dying would give Kate a reason to leave LA and move east to be with the rest of her family.)

I too knew immediately the "money pit" was going to be their house.  But I didn't get why Jack felt he couldn't give his father the real reason for wanting the money.  It was better for his father to think he was a failure, groveling for the cash, rather than needing it for his family?  I know he didn't want his awful father in their lives but that was a big risk.  His father could have slammed the door in his face if the money was to pay gambling debts.  It's more likely (with strings, I get it) if he knew the real reason.

[ClareWalks]

Toby's horniness is just obnoxious to me. Begging for sex and sexual acts in a hospital room with no privacy, when you need/just had heart surgery? Calm down, Toby. 

Kevin's line about dating Sloan even though it's not what he wants made me put a WTF look on my face and keep it there for a long time. Does he think he's doing Sloan a favor or something? What a prickish thing to say/think.

[ShadowFacts]

6 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I too knew immediately the "money pit" was going to be their house.  But I didn't get why Jack felt he couldn't give his father the real reason for wanting the money.  It was better for his father to think he was a failure, groveling for the cash, rather than needing it for his family?  I know he didn't want his awful father in their lives but that was a big risk.  His father could have slammed the door in his face if the money was to pay gambling debts.  It's more likely (with strings, I get it) if he knew the real reason.

It was a little murky to me as to why Jack put on that charade, but I thought maybe he just wants to keep his father at a great distance from his wife and future kids.  I do not like that Jack took that money, yeah I get that he made a big sacrifice and swallowed his pride, etc. etc. but taking money or anything from someone that odious?  No.  And why would his horrible father even give it to him?  That type of person would delight in saying no.  Jack was a little too impulsive for my liking when he put down security, first and last month rent without Rebecca's knowledge.  A stroller, baby, groceries, laundry and sixth floor?  That merits a little discussion.  It bugs me a little that they write in all of these grand, exaggerated moments. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I like Nick Drake as much as the next person but it's gotten to the point where I sigh and shake my head whenever I hear "Northern Sky" or "Pink Moon" used in tv shows and movies.

[Mocking Bird]

26 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Toby's horniness is just obnoxious to me. Begging for sex and sexual acts in a hospital room with no privacy, when you need/just had heart surgery? Calm down, Toby. 

That scene was revolting, particularly given that Toby had made graphic and repeated mention of how far a catheter was shoved up "his junk".  Do the producers think they're breaking new ground by showing two fat people behaving all hot for one another?  Portraying that attraction in the crassest way possible is doing it really wrong.

[HeyThere83]

Somehow this show manages to suck the drama out of this show all the time. I would never guess this was the first episode after the cliffhanger one.

[ShadowFacts]

5 minutes ago, Mocking Bird said:

That scene was revolting, particularly given that Toby had made graphic and repeated mention of how far a catheter was shoved up "his junk".  Do the producers think they're breaking new ground by showing two fat people behaving all hot for one another?  Portraying that attraction in the crassest way possible is doing it really wrong.

It really is doing it wrong.  I have tried hard not to hate the character, but he has gotten just completely off-putting.  Continually trying to be funny doesn't help. 

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Jack's relationship to his father is really messed up. Jack hates him to the point where he won't even tell him that he's married and about to become a dad, would rather have his father believe that he's a gambler, but he's happy to take money from him. It didn't seem like the first time, either. When Jack showed up, his father didn't seem surprised to be hit up for cash.

It wasn't until I saw that Toby was alive and back to being his obnoxious self that I realized how much I'd been hoping that he would die. Then I had a glimmer of hope when he decided to do the surgery, but still no luck. Oh, well. At least we got a Big Three hospital scene out of it.

It definitely is messed up if Jack feels like he has to lie about having a wife and having kids on the way in order to get money. Maybe Jack's dad relishes on being the better one in the family. He clearly had no issue with telling Jack that his own mother was wrong about everything, basically implying that she was worthless. Maybe being a failure was the only way that Jack was going to get the money out of his own father. Which, yes, is pretty disgusting on Jack's father's end. It certainly seemed like his father seemed to think that he was better than Jack and he almost seemed proud to hear that Jack was a gambler. He seemed smug. 

Although Jack was not happy to take money from his father. It really did seem like he had no choice in the matter. This was for not just his three children, but for Rebecca. Jack probably would have chosen any other option but he seemed to feel like he had to choose taking his father's money. 

I do recognize that Toby is a very bold and sexual type of person; he also has very inappropriate moments, but I did also recognize that he was dealing with his own life and death situation through humor and jokes. I wish that they gave him more of a serious moment, though, to convey his fears better. We didn't get much on Toby because there were other plots in the episode, but I think they could have conveyed his coping mechanism as a coping mechanism better. 

6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Jack's behavior towards his father essentially said "I hate you and don't want you in my life in any way, but I'm happy to take a large sum of money from you because I failed to prepare financially for starting a family". YMMV, but that's not right.

Again, "happy" is not the right word in this situation. He was not jumping up and down for this money. He felt like he had to. He chose to go to his father for selfless reasons, much like Rebecca chose to take her mother's offer, even though she knew it would make her miserable. Those are not choices out of happiness. Those are choices out of obligation. It's life; sometimes, you need to accept help, even when you don't want to. Also, as others have said, Jack and Rebecca were blindsided by triplets. Even in today's age, taking care of three babies is tough financially. I'm sure in the early 80s, it would have been harder. Babies are a huge expense and Jack and Rebecca both recognized that they needed some sort of help financially. 

37 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

It was a little murky to me as to why Jack put on that charade, but I thought maybe he just wants to keep his father at a great distance from his wife and future kids.  I do not like that Jack took that money, yeah I get that he made a big sacrifice and swallowed his pride, etc. etc. but taking money or anything from someone that odious?  No.  And why would his horrible father even give it to him?  That type of person would delight in saying no.  Jack was a little too impulsive for my liking when he put down security, first and last month rent without Rebecca's knowledge.  A stroller, baby, groceries, laundry and sixth floor?  That merits a little discussion.  It bugs me a little that they write in all of these grand, exaggerated moments. 

I think we'll be getting more on Jack and his abusive father as we go along, so there are more layers to why Jack lied not just to his father, but also to Rebecca. I think, when it comes to Jack's situation, he really had no other choice. Short of stealing the money, I don't know what else they could have done. They were already struggling to make ends meet for the family that they thought was just going to be three. But with two additional babies, Jack probably realized that they needed the money so they wouldn't have to move in to Rebecca's parents' home. Jack recognized that it was not something Rebecca wanted to do but she was willing to make the sacrifice to do it, so Jack made a sacrifice on his own to make Rebecca happy. Although not telling her? Well, at least we're starting to see Jack's flaws and mistakes. 

I do agree that Jack shouldn't have put down that deposit without informing Rebecca first. It was too impulsive and it did end up backfiring, although I can't imagine they ever thought they'd have triplets. They thought that dealing with one baby would have been fine since they found an apartment that they both liked and was less expensive than the other places that they saw. Clearly, that was not the case.

[TobinAlbers]

Thank you show for the shirtless Randall scene. SKB whipped that shirt off with a quickness!

Interesting that they subverted the usual trope of a desperate man in need of money going to a loan shark or actually gambling in hopes of making up the money and getting even deeper in the hole. Jack instead played the loser gambler to get money for a very justifiable reason - a house for his family.

I think it's a generational thing in that while these days it's frowned upon for a man to just buy a house and assume his wife will go along with it, even back in the late 70s/early 80s men were expected to take the lead and be the ones looking after the checkbook, buy the cars, houses, etc.  And going to the parents - even ones you hate - and asking for money and them giving it to you also was pretty normal. No matter how much you hate your family, the tribe protects itself.

Having said that, Jack's dad loaned him the money not out of any goodness in his heart, but to continue to have power over him, be seen by others as being a good dad who can provide (if anyone is looking),  and 'being right' about him.  This was an ego boost for him. Jack let him have it.

Also the reason Jack didn't tell him about his wife and kids is the same reason he wouldn't tell an actual loan shark about his family - Jack's dad would use it as leverage to emotionally and perhaps financially blackmail him and threaten him. 'Oh, you don't have my money? Wonder what your pretty wife and three kids would think about their loser husband and father?' It's a very dangerous situation because it's not hard to believe that if Jack's dad use Rebecca and the kids as a weapon against him, Jack would lose it and the situation escalates.  I do wonder if Jack's dad somehow plays in Jack's early death.

I was worried that when we saw young Jack and his mother and she begs him to not be like his dad that we were really going to see the beginnings of the cracks of an abusive Jack coming out. So far we know that later as the pressure gets to him, Jack begins drinking too much. Hopefully that's the extent of his cracks but seeing his father, it's amazing that Jack doesn't seem to exhibit more anger about life and instead chooses to be happy, create a family for himself, and not be bitter about making sacrifices or the lemons life throws at him but making the hard choices and taking those lemons and making lemonade. 

Kate, it's different when it's YOU being cut into after already surviving a traumatic medical experience. Toby was well within his rights to not immediately jump onto the expedient surgery and think about it. Yes, it appears to be the better option, but Toby literally had it smacked into him that he will die someday. That day could've been Christmas Eve/Day but he was lucky. Death isn't some abstract thing for him in the far off future, but something that WILL happen to him. So give him a minute to think about heart surgery.

Now I want mint chocolate chip ice cream.

[JudyObscure]

27 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

It definitely is messed up if Jack feels like he has to lie about having a wife and having kids on the way in order to get money. Maybe Jack's dad relishes on being the better one in the family. He clearly had no issue with telling Jack that his own mother was wrong about everything, basically implying that she was worthless. Maybe being a failure was the only way that Jack was going to get the money out of his own father. Which, yes, is pretty disgusting on Jack's father's end. It certainly seemed like his father seemed to think that he was better than Jack and he almost seemed proud to hear that Jack was a gambler. He seemed smug. 

I thought that was it, exactly.  Jack knew his father was a hateful, bitter old man who would be jealous of his own son if he knew he had a happy marriage and triplets on the way.  He would have sneered and said, "You think you're so much, you think you're better than your old man?  Get lost.."  Instead Jack gave the old man an opportunity to feel superior and be able to say, basically, "I always knew you were as worthless as your mother."  I thought it was good subtle, surprising writing.

Sorry cross-posted with TobinAlbers who said it better.

Re:Toby:  I don't think he was really expecting to have sex in the hospital, I think that's how he kids with Kate and she was giving him a grudging hint of a smile.  His type of humor is not mine, but judging by the scripts of most of our sit-coms, lots of people think that stuff's hilarious.  Anyway, I kind of like Toby and while he needs stronger boundaries, I think Kate's are like reinforced prison walls. She should have told Toby she loved him, too.  I don't care if she thought the situation was trite or she felt forced or whatever,  Toby needed that right then. It's not always about Kate and her issues.

Edited January 11, 2017 by JudyObscure

[Neurochick]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Sterling Brown is a treasure.  He gets the best comedic lines (I love his laugh) and the meatiest story.  Randall and Beth together continue to be the best part of the show.  I love the whole cast but would watch a spin off of just these Piersons.  I don't mind that William seems to be perfect.  He's an old man facing his death, he knows what's important, who is important.  I'm calling it now-- the final epi of the season will be both Jack and William dying, with Randall losing both his fathers.  (Well, years apart but you know what I mean.)

I'm glad Toby lived only because it would have been so cliche for him to die in surgery, leaving Kate with the guilt of encouraging him but never saying she loved him.  (However I did think that Toby dying would give Kate a reason to leave LA and move east to be with the rest of her family.)

I too knew immediately the "money pit" was going to be their house.  But I didn't get why Jack felt he couldn't give his father the real reason for wanting the money.  It was better for his father to think he was a failure, groveling for the cash, rather than needing it for his family?  I know he didn't want his awful father in their lives but that was a big risk.  His father could have slammed the door in his face if the money was to pay gambling debts.  It's more likely (with strings, I get it) if he knew the real reason.

Agree with this whole post.  I think Jack didn't tell his dad what the money was for because had he told his father, he might not have given him the money. 

Quote

I thought that was it, exactly.  Jack knew his father was a hateful, bitter old man who would be jealous of his own son if he knew he had a happy marriage and triplets on the way.  He would have sneered and said, "You think you're so much, you think you're better than your old man?  Get lost.."  Instead Jack gave the old man an opportunity to feel superior and be able to say, basically, "I always knew you were as worthless as your mother."  I thought it was good subtle, surprising writing.

Exactly!  Jack's dad would never have given Jack the money if he suspected that Jack was a better man than he.  He wanted to believe his son was a fuck up and could think, "yeah, I'm the one who saved my fucked up son." 

I have zero problems with Jack asking his dad for money; his father seemed to be an abusive asshole and the least he could do was to help his future grandchildren. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Neurochick

[lovinbob]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I absolutely hate the TV trope of a husband "surprising" his wife with a home purchase. Does it ever occur to anyone that the wife might like to have a say in choosing the home she'll be living in long-term?

He did it twice! First with the rental, and then the house! Especially when I was pregnant, this is the kind of thing that would have thrown me over the edge. You have so little control over anything, and then your partner takes a huge thing like where you live (and how much debt you are in) out of your hands—not good, no matter how happy the result.

I am rooting for Toby, probably because I like the actor. And maybe because the physical perfection of everyone else on this show is a little unrealistic to me. But yeah, his manic joke-making and horniness is a bit much. I don't think I would enjoy being in a relationship with him.

Also rooting for Sloan and Kevin, but it doesn't really seem in the cards. Boy, he is socially limited, isn't he? 

[Lady Calypso]

11 hours ago, lovinbob said:

He did it twice! First with the rental, and then the house! Especially when I was pregnant, this is the kind of thing that would have thrown me over the edge. You have so little control over anything, and then your partner takes a huge thing like where you live (and how much debt you are in) out of your hands—not good, no matter how happy the result.

Agreed about at least the rental. I guess because I was born in '93, I don't get how different the times would have been for an adult couple in the late 70s/early 80s. I do think that not discussing the rental more was a bad call on Jack's end. I guess the late 70s did have the man of the house make the decisions and the woman still didn't have as much say, but it does still suck, looking at it from a 2017 perspective. But in those times, I can accept that it was normal, unfortunately. 

However, I do give him more lenience with buying the house because Jack really was thinking about Rebecca and the kids. He didn't want Rebecca to be miserable and depressed living with her mother, something that Jack recognizes is not a healthy relationship. I'm remembering Rebecca's quip toward Jack earlier in the episode about him having an abusive dad not equating to her own family, so I think that was subtly foreshadowing Jack's decision to buy the house so they wouldn't have to live with Rebecca's parents. It was actually a very selfless gesture from Jack, just like Rebecca's choice to take up her mother's offer was very selfless. I definitely didn't see Jack's decision in buying the house as a way to prove himself, which is different. I honestly saw it as a totally selfless act of him wanting them to start their family away from their dysfunctional families. I'm still debating to myself whether Jack lying about where he got the money was a good idea, but I'm thinking that ultimately, Jack was ashamed in telling Rebecca that he had to grovel and lie to his own father, making himself a target once more, in order to get what they needed. 

11 hours ago, lovinbob said:

Also rooting for Sloan and Kevin, but it doesn't really seem in the cards. Boy, he is socially limited, isn't he? 

I'm really holding out hope that their romance is a slow burn. I'd like to think that they're just taking it slow with Sloane/Kevin, especially with how quickly Toby/Kate have been moving. I'd like to think that Kevin is going to develop actual feelings for Sloane, but right now, they're just in a "getting to know you" stage, where Kevin feels comfortable with sleeping with her, but his issues with feeling left out and maybe even unloved has affected his ability to be in a relationship. We know that Kevin has always cared too much about what people think of him. We know that he has felt left out in his family, and that he might have some trust issues. I mean, this is all just my own interpretation and everyone will see it differently, but I just see Kevin as someone who has trouble opening himself up to the possibility of love. Look at what happened with Olivia, who used him in a pretty bad way. He's been burned by people before, in his perspective. Maybe it'll take a little more time for him to really fall for Sloane. And that's fine, because I want to see it unfold onscreen. 

He considers Sloane the "safe choice" right now, but I really want that to change. He doesn't know how he feels about her, and it could take more time. They're still working on the play and I truly believe that by the time the play comes out, they'll both be part of it and they'll figure out what they are to each other. I think Kevin could just be scared to explore the relationship to find out if he has feelings for her.

Maybe. That would be nice, and I want to give some credit to Kevin here. 

[RedDelicious]

53 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Now I want mint chocolate chip ice cream.

ME TOO.

[maraleia]

When Beth said sexual preference during that bathroom scene instead of the correct term sexual orientation it made me want to scream because there's no excuse for this kind of sloppiness when there are online resources out there to get it right. This tells me they have no queer people on their writing staff and that's a problem.

[DearEvette]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Hee, I also loved that Randall's attempt at distracting Kate was a lame story about a coworker who claims she's gluten-free. For some reason, it cracked me up that he thought that was interesting enough to share. Loved that Kate's reaction was to tell him he had failed and then demand Kevin tell some them something. Randall's "big three" toast was great too.

Oh man, I loved that moment.  If felt very siblingl-ly.  Like, sure they hadn't seen each other for awhile but they fell naturally into their old roles. 

I like Randall's brand of awkward.  It doesn't come off as "look, at how preciously tv awkward I am!" but rather it comes out in little weird bursts that feel organic and it retreats when Randall feels comfortable again.  I don't know if it is the writing or just SKB who makes it work, but it does.  Randall is quirky without being TV-quirky.

Ugh.  Olivia is the worst. Still.  I feel that her hair was a signifier of how fake she still is on the inside.

Welp, William is gonna be dead by the end of the season.  I like Ron Cephus Jones but, like Randall, I am prepared for it.

Good epsiode.

Edited January 11, 2017 by DearEvette

[luna1122]

2 minutes ago, maraleia said:

When Beth said sexual preference during that bathroom scene instead of the correct term sexual orientation it made me want to scream because there's no excuse for this kind of sloppiness when there are online resources out there to get it right. This tells me they have no queer people on their writing staff and that's a problem.

I would agree with you if this was said in a serious conversation, but she was flirting with her husband to get him into the tub with her. The sexual preference was an innuendo/play on words, not an actual discussion on the subject of sexual orientation. I mean, you may be right, and some of the writing may be tone deaf due to lack of LGBT folks on the writing staff, but I don't think this is a real representation of that.

[Primetimer]

Is making us cry this much 'The Right Thing To Do'?

View the full article

[camom]

What didn't ring true to me was Toby getting the surgery right away.  If he had a septal defect, he's had it his whole life and taking some time to weigh the options would have been fine.  Less dramatic, I know.

[3 is enough]

I think Jack not telling his father about Rebecca and the babies was partly for their protection.  If his abusive dad does not know they exist, he can't hurt them in any way.

Probably not a popular opinion, but I don't hate Toby as much as most people do.  I don't really like him, but I get the impression that the joking and inappropriate remarks are just his way of dealing with uncomfortable situations.  We got a glimpse of how much his ex hurt him, and I think his behaviour is a result of that.  He doesn't want to get hurt again and becomes the joker to mask his feelings.  YMMV, of course.

Can anyone tell me who played Jack's dad?  He looked very familiar to me but I can't think of his name or where I saw him before.  Thanks.

[Aloeonatable]

I raised my family in the 70's through the 90's, and though I didn't have triplets, there is no way that I wasn't involved in making decisions about where we lived and when we bought our first house. I do think that Jack purchased the house before telling Rebecca because he could afford this and had to act fast knowing that the triplets would be born in 6 months. There was no time to "shop" around for a house. When Mr. Aloe and I were first married and I found out I was pregnant for the first time, we were both students and living in a one bedroom apartment. We made the choice to move into his father's 3 bedroom house until we could afford to buy our own. It worked out well until our daughter was a year old and we could then afford our own home. We did contribute financially to his father's home while we lived there and it worked out well as his dad was divorced and I was the only woman in the home.  I could have never lived with my parents nor his parents (mother and stepfather), and we both got along very well with them.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Aloeonatable

[Indy]

35 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I would agree with you if this was said in a serious conversation, but she was flirting with her husband to get him into the tub with her. The sexual preference was an innuendo/play on words, not an actual discussion on the subject of sexual orientation. I mean, you may be right, and some of the writing may be tone deaf due to lack of LGBT folks on the writing staff, but I don't think this is a real representation of that.

I took it the same way, as her being flirty rather than discussing sexual orientation in a serious way. She was saying that what turns her on are dreamy black men with six pack abs, glasses, and a bio daddy who is gay or at least bi, as opposed to people who are not Randall. She was going for "get in the tub with me now, hot man" rather than, "I'm heterosexual." 

 

As a whole I didn't love this episode.  Not super thrilled with the Toby isn't dead and now they're in love and getting married arc.  The Toby/Kate-centric episodes aren't my favorites in general. Also not thrilled with newly blonde Olivia coming in and stomping all over the awesomeness that is Kevin and Sloane. Kevin goofed that one up but hopefully Sloane will forgive him.

I did like the glimpse into Rebecca's mother, seeing why future Rebecca is how she is with Kate and food.  

Edited January 11, 2017 by Indy

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, camom said:

What didn't ring true to me was Toby getting the surgery right away.  If he had a septal defect, he's had it his whole life and taking some time to weigh the options would have been fine.  Less dramatic, I know.

I think they explained this in the episode, when Toby told Kate that he was going into surgery that day because he didn't want to postpone it and chicken out. Now, I don't know whether they can arrange a surgery to happen that quickly when it's not an immediate concern (as in, he's going to die in the next couple of days without it), but they did try to explain why it was happening in that same episode. But yes, very dramatic and they could have taken their time on that story, but I'm guessing they wanted to move on to the aftermath. 

4 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

I do think that Jack purchased the house before telling Rebecca because he could afford this and had to act fast knowing that the triplets would be born in 6 months. There was no time to "shop" around for a house

Agreed. Although it's risky to purchase a house that needs a lot of work and isn't even close to being finished in the six month time span, in my opinion. I mean, Jack did say that he'd be able to get the majority of it done but with three kids on the way, it is risky to bet that it would be done. We know from the pilot that it was completed enough where Kevin, Kate, and Randall would be able to live safely, but in this particular episode, Jack definitely took a risk in hoping that it could be completed, especially knowing how much work needs to be done on the house. 

6 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

I could have never lived with my parents nor his parents, and we both got along very well with them.

I'm a recent university graduate who's had to move back home because I'm unable to afford a place on my own right now, and I can even agree to this. Moving back home to a family home is very tough, especially if you've been out on your own for years. It's sometimes unavoidable, but it can be overwhelming for many. It's helpful in many ways, but for people like Rebecca and Jack, who are not close to their parents, it's probably not a good option for them emotionally and mentally. 

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

 Moving back home to a family home is very tough, especially if you've been out on your own for years. It's sometimes unavoidable, but it can be overwhelming for many. It's helpful in many ways, but for people like Rebecca and Jack, who are not close to their parents, it's probably not a good option for them emotionally and mentally. 

Especially at their age. When we lived with my father-in-law we were just finishing up with our college degrees and were in our early and mid 20's. I cannot imagine a 35 year old man having to live with his disapproving in-laws.

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, luna1122 said:

That was the weirdest, most manufactured-for-drama seeming bit of dialogue, for me. So Kevin will continue to date Sloane, even tho it's not what he wants? Wtf kind of thing is that to do, or say? I know Kevin's tactless and impulsive, but that was beyond my comprehension. Also: a woman like Olivia--or hell, any woman who is still into a guy--would have seized upon that. He was brushing her off, yes, but he was also telling her she was the one he actually wanted. Olivia would have used that to get him back into bed in no time flat. The whole scene just rang untrue for me. If Sloane can still continue to see him after hearing that, she has no pride.

 

My take on this (disclaimer: I'm starting think that, like so many shows, I'm going to have to have additional dialogue running in my head along with the actual dialogue to explain things...sigh!): Kevin really is torn--Sloane and Olivia are completely different (as he so tactfully described to his siblings*) and they both embody things that he wants.  So, it wasn't so much that he really didn't want to be with Sloane, it was that he really didn't want to give up Olivia.  In a perfect world, he could split himself and be with both.  That, of course, does not bring his behavior down a notch or two on the douchebaggery scale.  
 

Sigh...I guess I'm just trying to explain or rationalize something that really didn't make any sense.

*I was completely shocked that Kate didn't go off on Olivia during that scene.

[ShadowFacts]

There was really no need for Jack to buy a house.  A bigger apartment, not on the sixth floor or with an elevator, would have been fine.  I never became a homeowner until after my kids were born, not triplets of course, but apartments were fine, even on the second floor.  This was all contrived to see what crappy parents both of them had, and how they did noble sacrifices for each other.  A little too anvil-ish for my taste.  Jack didn't have to take money from his abusive father, it wasn't a choice between living with her mother or homelessness.  And now he's keeping a secret about where the money came from.  Like she ends up keeping a secret about knowing William and his whereabouts. 

[paul4295]

28 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Can anyone tell me who played Jack's dad?  He looked very familiar to me but I can't think of his name or where I saw him before.  Thanks.

Jack's dad was played by Peter Onorati.  Without looking up any recent credits, I remember him most from the TV series Civil Wars, with Mariel Hemingway.  (He is also a graduate of Boonton High School in Boonton, NJ, which is where my kids went.)

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Jack knew his father was a hateful, bitter old man who would be jealous of his own son if he knew he had a happy marriage and triplets on the way.  He would have sneered and said, "You think you're so much, you think you're better than your old man?  Get lost.."  Instead Jack gave the old man an opportunity to feel superior and be able to say, basically, "I always knew you were as worthless as your mother."  I thought it was good subtle, surprising writing.

Ok.  This does make sense.

31 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

There was really no need for Jack to buy a house.  A bigger apartment, not on the sixth floor or with an elevator, would have been fine.  I never became a homeowner until after my kids were born, not triplets of course, but apartments were fine, even on the second floor.  This was all contrived to see what crappy parents both of them had, and how they did noble sacrifices for each other.  A little too anvil-ish for my taste.

Contrived, yeah, but it was a great opportunity.  The contractor was anxious to get this property off his hands.  Jack probably got a steal considering the state it was in.  (Talk about your fixer upper!)  I was wondering how they would find the money to make it livable in 6 months.

When they were looking at the apartment all I could think of was the hipster couples on House Hunters who want a cute home downtown near shops and restaurants.  They were clueless how inconvenient those 5 flights of stairs would be.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Haleth

[3 is enough]

Thank you, paul4295.  I used to watch Civil Wars, but that was quite a long time ago.

[Neurochick]

45 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Probably not a popular opinion, but I don't hate Toby as much as most people do.  I don't really like him, but I get the impression that the joking and inappropriate remarks are just his way of dealing with uncomfortable situations.  We got a glimpse of how much his ex hurt him, and I think his behaviour is a result of that.  He doesn't want to get hurt again and becomes the joker to mask his feelings.  YMMV, of course.

I agree with this.  One of my problems with Toby is how he crosses Kate's boundaries without seeming to care.  That's an issue for me as a woman, it's like a person touching your hair without permission. 

Toby can get to me and at time I can't stand him; but on the other hand, I think sometimes people expect too much perfection from others.  It's like we immediately think others should know just were our boundaries are and should 100% respect them from the first day they meet us. 

I do think that he masks his insecurities by joking around and stepping across boundaries. 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Neurochick

[Lady Calypso]

26 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

There was really no need for Jack to buy a house.  A bigger apartment, not on the sixth floor or with an elevator, would have been fine.  I never became a homeowner until after my kids were born, not triplets of course, but apartments were fine, even on the second floor.  This was all contrived to see what crappy parents both of them had, and how they did noble sacrifices for each other.  A little too anvil-ish for my taste.  Jack didn't have to take money from his abusive father, it wasn't a choice between living with her mother or homelessness.  And now he's keeping a secret about where the money came from.  Like she ends up keeping a secret about knowing William and his whereabouts. 

From how Jack and Rebecca presented it, even the apartment they rented was over their price range. Plus, they couldn't get their security deposit back so they were already out money, seemingly about five hundred dollars (I know Jack said something about $200/month and he had to put down first and last month's rent, and the deposit). I think buying a bigger place wasn't an option for them, or else they would have gotten a two bedroom place for them and the baby, when they thought there was only one. Again, that's just how the characters presented the situation. It does sound like Jack's boss gave the house to Jack pretty cheap, but Jack still had to sell his car AND get his dad's money in order to secure it. Could they have used that money for a bigger apartment instead of a house that would take even more money to fix up? Yeah, of course they could have. It sounds like Jack's boss would be moving on from that house from the moment Jack bought it, but that part was unclear. If Jack has to fix up the house himself, then it would have been better and less work to get a three bedroom apartment instead. 

But then we wouldn't have the house that the family lived in, so it's really just all part of the drama. It IS still a TV show, after all. Plus, in the long run, it is a better investment once the house is fixed up. They have an actual home for their children to grow up in.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Lady Calypso

[Runningwild]

10 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

She said Diet Coke--which I remember simply because it hit me as a strange product placement moment.

She said change it to diet. Not quite the same as ordering Diet Coke. (I'm from FL where they are all Coke. Then you tell them what kind of Coke- root beer, Sprite, etc.)

[OtterMommy]

Just now, Runningwild said:

She said change it to diet. Not quite the same as ordering Diet Coke. (I'm from FL where they are all Coke. Then you tell them what kind of Coke- root beer, Sprite, etc.)

Fair enough...I did still think it was strange product placement when I heard the "Coke", but in my part of the country (the PNW) Coke is coke, Pepsi is pepsi and either soda or pop is the generic, so I must have gone specific on the Diet.

[SunnyBeBe]

I agree with a few above who thought that Jack said he had a gambling debt, to appease his dad's need to be the big guy. H would love to be able to boast about how: I told you so, I'm better, you're a loser mentality.  His dad would have been annoyed, to think that he was wrong about Jack being a loser.  Jack bit the bullet and played his dad like a fiddle. Good for him. He put his family above his pride. 

I do think getting the apt, then the house without Rebecca knowing was wrong. Just a plot device for the show, imo  Plus, with real estate, a spouse has to sign off on any loan for real estate.  Oh well....nit picky, I know.

Toby is so immature and manipulative.  He would exhaust me.  Run Kate.

IMO, they have written Rebecca's mom to be a very stereotypical mean mother.  (I suppose Jack's dad is that way too.)  But, with Kate's mom, it just seems like lazy writing to me.  The other characters seem so rich. Why skimp?  

Edited January 11, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[lovinbob]

53 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I think Jack not telling his father about Rebecca and the babies was partly for their protection.  If his abusive dad does not know they exist, he can't hurt them in any way.

Yes. Plus the dad probably would have used the kids as leverage, and Jack doesn't want them anywhere near him. 

[ShadowFacts]

4 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

She said change it to diet. Not quite the same as ordering Diet Coke. (I'm from FL where they are all Coke. Then you tell them what kind of Coke- root beer, Sprite, etc.)

That made me laugh, because root beer and Sprite sure aren't Coke. 

[Court]

11 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

That made me laugh, because root beer and Sprite sure aren't Coke. 

In the South, they are! Coke is a general term here, interchangeable with the word soda.

Like this:

Me: Do you want a Coke?

Shadow: Yes

Me: What kind?

Shadow: Dr. Pepper