Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[Snow Fairy]

It is said that Joy and Austin heard the description of the images and videos on Josh's trial. I wonder if they will now think before posting almost naked pictures of their kids on SM

[Ijustwantsomechips]

9 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

It is said that Joy and Austin heard the description of the images and videos on Josh's trial. I wonder if they will now think before posting almost naked pictures of their kids on SM

Probably not since Joy doesn’t have the sense God gave cabbage.

[Rootbeer]

8 hours ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Probably not since Joy doesn’t have the sense God gave cabbage.

I agree, I don't think Joy could connect the dots and realize that even photos of kids doing innocent kid things can be turned into something ugly.

[awaken]

19 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

It is said that Joy and Austin heard the description of the images and videos on Josh's trial. I wonder if they will now think before posting almost naked pictures of their kids on SM

Unfortunately I doubt it. Throughout this entire process the Duggars and Bates have been posting naked baby and kid photos. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Joy sounds depressed:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXFqPv3F2MS/

Quote

joy4site Yes, Jesus. I will trust you.🙏🏼

I am studying in Job.
Job went though so much suffering and yet he received the strength that God extended to him to endure. In Job 38-42 God answered Job’s questions, cries, and speeches.

Summary: The basic message of God to Job was this.

Can you understand even the simplest things of the ways of My creation?

No.

Job, look upon Me. Can you understand Me or My ways?

No.

Job, can’t you understand that you can’t understand all of My ways?

Yes.

Now Job, behold My wisdom, My glory, and My love and ask yourself the question. Even though you cannot understand, can you trust Me?

Yes.

 

[SMama]

4 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Joy sounds depressed:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXFqPv3F2MS/

 

Understandable given she has been revictimized by Volderjosh publicly, again. 

[ozziemom]

7 hours ago, SMama said:

Understandable given she has been revictimized by Volderjosh publicly, again. 

And reminded how little her parents did to protect her.

[Rootbeer]

11 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Joy sounds depressed:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXFqPv3F2MS/

 

I don't think she sounds depressed; she sounds like she is working on dealing with a lot of heavy stuff that has been brought to the forefront through no fault of her own.  She was raised in a religious tradition where turning to the Bible for comfort is expected.  I hope it helps her.

Remember, too, that this trial is not the end of it; Joy and her sisters' suit will be starting shortly after her brother's trial is over.  A very long and sad month for her, I expect.

[irisheyes]

4 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I don't think she sounds depressed; she sounds like she is working on dealing with a lot of heavy stuff that has been brought to the forefront through no fault of her own.  She was raised in a religious tradition where turning to the Bible for comfort is expected.  I hope it helps her.

Remember, too, that this trial is not the end of it; Joy and her sisters' suit will be starting shortly after her brother's trial is over.  A very long and sad month for her, I expect.

I agree. This is not easy, and I think she’s expressing that through the lens of her faith. As a fellow person of faith, I hope she finds the comfort she’s seeking. This has got to be incredibly difficult. 

[Lady Whistleup]

28 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I don't think she sounds depressed; she sounds like she is working on dealing with a lot of heavy stuff that has been brought to the forefront through no fault of her own.  She was raised in a religious tradition where turning to the Bible for comfort is expected.  I hope it helps her.

Remember, too, that this trial is not the end of it; Joy and her sisters' suit will be starting shortly after her brother's trial is over.  A very long and sad month for her, I expect.

This might be the first time I've ever heard Joy express anything about the Josh situation. This post makes me think she's taking it way harder than maybe she even expected? 

[Nysha]

12 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Joy sounds depressed:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CXFqPv3F2MS/

Quote

joy4site Yes, Jesus. I will trust you.🙏🏼

I am studying in Job.
Job went though so much suffering and yet he received the strength that God extended to him to endure. In Job 38-42 God answered Job’s questions, cries, and speeches.

Summary: The basic message of God to Job was this.

Can you understand even the simplest things of the ways of My creation?

No.

Job, look upon Me. Can you understand Me or My ways?

No.

Job, can’t you understand that you can’t understand all of My ways?

Yes.

Now Job, behold My wisdom, My glory, and My love and ask yourself the question. Even though you cannot understand, can you trust Me?

Yes.

Expand  Expand  

Personally, I've never found the book of Job to be very comforting, since he was already a faithful believer before god destroyed his life to win a bet with satan.

[Cinnabon]

12 hours ago, SMama said:

Understandable given she has been revictimized by Volderjosh publicly, again. 

But how does it help to share this with strangers?

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Cinnabon said:

But how does it help to share this with strangers?

I honestly don't think any of the Duggar kids have an understanding of healthy social media boundaries because of their parents putting them on TV and monetizing their childhoods and lives. It's their normal. 

[Cinnabon]

I HATE vaguebooking. Joy, just say what you’re feeling. Preferably to people you actually know.

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I HATE vaguebooking. Joy, just say what you’re feeling. Preferably to people you actually know.

YMMV but I don't think we actually have a right to tell Joy the "right" way to respond to events this upsetting.

[Cinnabon]

44 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

YMMV but I don't think we actually have a right to tell Joy the "right" way to respond to events this upsetting.

She’ll never know what I think, and I’m just sharing my views on this forum 🤷‍♀️.

[CountryGirl]

47 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

YMMV but I don't think we actually have a right to tell Joy the "right" way to respond to events this upsetting.

Agreed. Joy is learning, likely for the first time, what happened to her as a very young child. And that her parents did nothing to help her or her sisters heal. Oh no, they were sacrificial lambs for golden child SexPest. 

How Joy or her sisters or any CSA survivor choose to address what happened to them is entirely their business and they owe no one any details about that. 

It’s no wonder the majority of survivors keep silent about what happened to them. 

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Agreed. Joy is learning, likely for the first time, what happened to her as a very young child. And that her parents did nothing to help her or her sisters heal. Oh no, they were sacrificial lambs for golden child SexPest. 

How Joy or her sisters or any CSA survivor choose to address what happened to them is entirely their business and they owe no one any details about that. 

It’s no wonder the majority of survivors keep silent about what happened to them. 

She doesn’t owe me anything, but I still have the right to express my views here. I’m 99.9% positive that she doesn’t read here. 

[SMama]

59 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

But how does it help to share this with strangers?

I obviously do not know Joy. Right now the TTH of cards has collapsed beyond repair. Joy is perhaps for the first time understanding how terribly neglectful and abusive her parents are. Perhaps dipping her toes in the water that is SM to vent made her feel better. Would I have done it? NO. But I did not grow up being told by my parents that every public utterance I make is a ministry. 

[Cinnabon]

Hopefully she is able to talk to her many sisters. Does anyone think she talks to Jill? Jana and Jessa, at least, seem like they wouldn’t be of any help or comfort.

[GeeGolly]

I wouldn't be surprised if Austin and Joy are struggling with there being a chance their brother could end up in prison for a crime he didn't commit.

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Hopefully she is able to talk to her many sisters. Does anyone think she talks to Jill? Jana and Jessa, at least, seem like they wouldn’t be of any help or comfort.

I think she does talk to Jill, but quietly because Jill's the outcast. But I've seen occasional times when Jill and Joy were together. I hope she has some support among her siblings. It's actually a bit sad that among the 19 siblings, no one seems particularly close.

[CountryGirl]

15 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

She doesn’t owe me anything, but I still have the right to express my views here. I’m 99.9% positive that she doesn’t read here. 

Nothing was said whatsoever about anyone’s right to express their views. Civil disagreement with others isn’t shutting down their views. 

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Austin and Joy are struggling with there being a chance their brother could end up in prison for a crime he didn't commit.

This could explain her cryptic Bible quoting BS.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Cinnabon

[Westiepeach]

5 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think she does talk to Jill, but quietly because Jill's the outcast. But I've seen occasional times when Jill and Joy were together. I hope she has some support among her siblings. It's actually a bit sad that among the 19 siblings, no one seems particularly close.

And yet they always said their sisters were their best friends…

[Ljohnson1987]

I'm sure Joy is dealing with a lot right now. I hope she gets whatever real mental help she needs. Austin, don't be an idiot. Take a cue from Derick, and get Joy the help she needs. 

[Cinnabon]

13 minutes ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

I'm sure Joy is dealing with a lot right now. I hope she gets whatever real mental help she needs. Austin, don't be an idiot. Take a cue from Derick, and get Joy the help she needs. 

I hope I’m wrong, but Austin seems to be one of those men who doesn’t truth those university educated, degree holding “elitists.”

[GeeGolly]

I know I sound like a broken record, but none of the sisters have given us any evidence they were traumatized or need therapy.

I'm sure everyone who posts here unknowingly knows someone with a less than wonderful past, who lives their life happily, with no need for an intervention.

With that said, any or all of the girls could be struggling and need extra support. My point is, I don't think anyone wants anyone else to think they are somehow broken and needs fixing because their abuse was made public.

[BitterApple]

My interpretation is that this is the first time Joy has had to come to terms with her abuse, and it's hitting her hard. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but if she isn't already under the care of a therapist, then she needs to be. 

[Lady Whistleup]

My guess is that it hits Joy hard because she's a true believer. She has probably truly believed that as long as she believed in God and followed all the Gothard rules, her life would go swimmingly. She had checked every single box, dotted all her i's and crossed her t's. 

[Zella]

Joy has talked about a crisis of faith of sorts when she was younger that Joe helped her through. I've always wondered if she doubled down on things since then as a way of compensating for having had doubts. 

[GeeGolly]

To be diagnosed with PTSD one has to meet certain criteria (simplified): the event, at least one persistent intrusive symptom, avoidance of internal and/or external reminders, persistent negative thoughts, changes in reactivity/arousal - all lasting longer than one month.

I'm not sure we can get there with Joy by knowing of an event and a few Bible quotes. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Westiepeach]

20 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

My guess is that it hits Joy hard because she's a true believer. She has probably truly believed that as long as she believed in God and followed all the Gothard rules, her life would go swimmingly. She had checked every single box, dotted all her i's and crossed her t's. 

Just like Anna, no?

[GeeGolly]

Please forgive my frustration, but coming from a therapist's view it sometime feels like huge leaps to me. Like constipation meaning bowel obstruction, sore throat meaning rheumatic fever or a skin lesion meaning leprosy. That combined with the sensitive nature of childhood sexual abuse, kicks my clinician brain and empathy into high gear. Again, my apologies.

Lets hope for everyone's sake all the Duggars are "walking through" a stressful "season of life" and will be fine when the trial is over.

[Future Cat Lady]

22 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

My guess is that it hits Joy hard because she's a true believer. She has probably truly believed that as long as she believed in God and followed all the Gothard rules, her life would go swimmingly. She had checked every single box, dotted all her i's and crossed her t's. 

If she really believes the Gothard shit, she would thank Josh for making her a better person.

I know we all want to believe that the girls realize their brother is POS, but they could really just be uspet because Josh is being persecuted by the evil government.

[Tuxcat]

It's stressful being in the public eye. It's stressful being a mother with two young children. It's stressful losing a baby at 20 weeks. It's stressful having a brother on trial who might go to prison. It's stressful having a divided family - questioning their history. I would think its stressful to have a cousin tweet every day about righteousness. Joy was just a baby. She's been processing since 2015 at the very least - hopefully longer. Right now she's probably just dealing with the totality of everything on her plate - and therefore finds herself asking God - why...why..why. I just want to live happily ever after but this crap keeps happening... I don't think anyone can pin anything down here. We honestly have no idea. 

[Churchhoney]

48 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

My guess is that it hits Joy hard because she's a true believer. She has probably truly believed that as long as she believed in God and followed all the Gothard rules, her life would go swimmingly. She had checked every single box, dotted all her i's and crossed her t's. 

That's probably what Joe told her to do back when he talked her out of her alleged faith crisis of a few years ago. ....Just follow all the rules and totally do our parents' bidding and Jesus'll make everything right for you. 

If the Caldwell/JB-and-M bustup is as intense as some have indicated, I am wondering whether Joe might possibly be questioning some of his hardline, simple beliefs these days. He may be finding himself torn between two sets of super-godly parents ..... who up to now seem to have claimed to be leading worshippers of the same correct Jesus...... Makes me wonder how he thinks about that and handles it. 

[madpsych78]

I wonder if Joy was aware of the whole Josh thing for the past several years, but is now hit for the first time with her parents' role in all of this. The fact that Boob indicated in court that he could not recall details of what happened to the girls may give some of them pause. 

I can see Austin being a true believer, but I also don't think he's that naive either. It does seem like he is supportive of Joy and hopefully that will continue to be the case.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, Westiepeach said:

Just like Anna, no?

She’s not bright enough to have made that connection.

[emmawoodhouse]

7 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Agreed. Joy is learning, likely for the first time, what happened to her as a very young child. And that her parents did nothing to help her or her sisters heal. Oh no, they were sacrificial lambs for golden child SexPest. 

How Joy or her sisters or any CSA survivor choose to address what happened to them is entirely their business and they owe no one any details about that. 

It’s no wonder the majority of survivors keep silent about what happened to them. 

If she's just learning what happened to her, that would mean she never read the police report. Speaking to the girl's lawsuit, how can she claim distress if she didn't know what happened to her until Bobye Holt testified? 

eta Joy was still a minor when the lawsuit was filed. I never thought that this was an action the girls would have taken on their own (except maybe Jessa, but she brushed it all off as "NBD"). Boob, however, is very litigious. I don't think there would have been a lawsuit without Boob's meddling.

Edited December 6, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[Nysha]

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

eta Joy was still a minor when the lawsuit was filed. I never thought that this was an action the girls would have taken on their own (except maybe Jessa, but she brushed it all off as "NBD"). Boob, however, is very litigious. I don't think there would have been a lawsuit without Boob's meddling.

Pest's actions with his sisters was allowed as evidence due in part b/c of the lawsuit. Once again, JB is ultimately responsible for causing his daughters unnecessary pain.

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, Nysha said:

Pest's actions with his sisters was allowed as evidence due in part b/c of the lawsuit. Once again, JB is ultimately responsible for causing his daughters unnecessary pain.

Yes, the same judge is presiding over the girls' lawsuit.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

If she's just learning what happened to her, that would mean she never read the police report. Speaking to the girl's lawsuit, how can she claim distress if she didn't know what happened to her until Bobye Holt testified? 

eta Joy was still a minor when the lawsuit was filed. I never thought that this was an action the girls would have taken on their own (except maybe Jessa, but she brushed it all off as "NBD"). Boob, however, is very litigious. I don't think there would have been a lawsuit without Boob's meddling.

Right, she had to have known what happened to her if she is claiming “distress” in the lawsuit. Otherwise she wouldn’t be one of the victims names.

[Zella]

19 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Pest's actions with his sisters was allowed as evidence due in part b/c of the lawsuit.

Do you mean allowed in evidence in the current CSAM trial? Because my understanding is that has nothing to do with the lawsuit and is admissible because federal law allows for the inclusion of prior history of sexual abuse in relation to sex crimes, even if it's never been charged, in a way that is really quite unusual legally speaking. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Zella

[emmawoodhouse]

25 minutes ago, Zella said:

Do you mean allowed in evidence in the current CSAM trial? Because my understanding is that has nothing to do with the lawsuit and is admissible because federal law allows for the inclusion of prior history of sexual abuse in relation to sex crimes, even if it's never been charged, in a way that is really quite unusual legally speaking. 

You are correct. It has nothing to do with the lawsuit. I responded to a different angle (re the judge), but the video I posted on the Smuganna thread explains the law very clearly. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by emmawoodhouse
Forgot which thread I was posting in!

[Zella]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

You are correct. It has nothing to do with the lawsuit. I responded to a different angle (re the judge), but the video I posted explains the law very clearly. 

Yeah I could be interpreting this incorrectly--lawyers stop me now--but my understanding is even if the molestations had not been made public before now, that evidence of what he did as a minor would still be admissible, provided someone was willing to testify about it. 

[emmawoodhouse]

I think that's correct because the judge is allowing Bobye's testimony. The presence of the police report is immaterial to what she said. I wonder if the police report will be introduced. It was part of Boob's testimony, but the judge threw it out. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[Minivanessa]

7 hours ago, Zella said:

Yeah I could be interpreting this incorrectly--lawyers stop me now--but my understanding is even if the molestations had not been made public before now, that evidence of what he did as a minor would still be admissible, provided someone was willing to testify about it. 

Taking this to the Smugs topic.

 

[Churchhoney]

19 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I HATE vaguebooking. Joy, just say what you’re feeling. Preferably to people you actually know.

Unfortunately, though, I don't think poor old Joy has had any chance to learn better ways to do this.

How many times have we talked about the Duggars' huge reliance on meaningless cliches for communication and about the possibility -- which I think is a certainty -- that the siblings have very little real, specific conversation among them?.....I'm pretty sure they were mainly raised to be snitches so they don't trust each other and to talk and write entirely in those churchy-Gothardy meaningless cliches......JB and M sign birthday cards to their own kids "Mom and Dad Duggar." All your communication goes on media, not direct. 

Joy's only friend appears to be Carlin -- who comes from the same church and cult background. And even if those two have stumbled into a better mode of talking things through -- and I certainly hope they have -- Carlin lives hundreds of miles away, so she's not very available for conversation....

Unfortunately, good ways to deal with problems don't just come naturally to most people -- they have to be learned from somewhere (and there are barriers to Joy even reading in a book how to work things through -- her family doesn't believe in any books but the Bible, and I fear she can barely read...)......And I'm pretty sure everybody who surrounds her does things the same way. 

I wish somebody could swoop in and help Joy learn better ways of working things through, but I can't imagine where that knowledge would come from.....Maybe Jill, now that she seems to be talking more with people who aren't so nuts.....But it's not clear what's happened to the Jill-Joy connection, either....

This situation the Duggars are in would be horribly difficult for anybody. But this family's in a worse position than many, I think. I don't think Joy'll be able to change her unhelpful habits any time soon, unfortunately.........And now she's raising kids in the same habits, I suppose. 

 

[Churchhoney]

11 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Right, she had to have known what happened to her if she is claiming “distress” in the lawsuit. Otherwise she wouldn’t be one of the victims names.

Except that I've never believed the girls had much if anything to do with filing that lawsuit. JB and his lawyers thought that one up. ......

There's no way in hell four young still-brainwashed Gothard women got the idea to file that lawsuit to get money. .....And Joy as the youngest and possibly the very worst educated of the four would probably have been just dragged along for the ride even if the older sisters did understand. 

Do we imagine that JB would insist that, for ethics' sake, his daughters had to understand and assent to the nature of the lawsuit before the lawyers could claim that it involved their feelings? Nah. All JB ever cared about in the suit was the money and winning and getting back at someone who let out some facts that dimmed his reputation. 

If we didn't know that before, I think we saw it pretty clearly in his willingness to say in court that he doesn't even remember what he heard about the girls' molestation. (which seem to have gone on for about three years...!!!) That's JB -- lawsuit originator -- making clear that he never cared about their distress -- let alone about how and what they understood about the claimed distress. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Churchhoney